Soldering Sucks, But Epoxy Potting Helps.
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- Soldered connections are generally avoided in motorsport wiring applications where crimping is an option due to its superior attributes for this specific application.
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BUT! There are exceptions where crimping isn't possible, and one of those exceptions is when we are potting actuators such as these Toyota ignition coils, which are known to fail when exposed to the comparably extreme vibrations motorsport use introduces compared to the drive to the shops Toyota thought you would be using them for.
In this video, Andre shows how this epoxy potting process is done and the extra step he likes to take with a moulded boot to increase the chance of long-term reliability.
TOOLS AND MATERIALS WE USED:
Soldering Station: Duratech TS-1640
Wire: Tefzel
Strippers: Ideal Ergo Elite with backstop
Sheathing: Raychem DR25
Epoxy Potting Mix: ResinTech RT125 or Hellermanntyton V9500
NOTE: We use what suits us and our application to the best of our knowledge based on our own research and industry experience. These are not the only tools or materials you can use for your own projects or hobbies, which might be very different depending on your application and budget. Educate yourself and decide what suits YOU best for yourself.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Soldered Connections Introduce Risk
0:48 - The Reason
1:06 - Part Design Flaws Require Solder
1:28 - How To Remove Soldering Risks
1:41 - Use Cases
1:48 - Stripping Tefzel
1:59 - Bend Before You Tin
2:16 - Soldering
2:31 - Backfire Feedback Connection
2:43 - Twist, Sheath
2:56 - Ensure A Strong Bond
3:12 - Strain Relief
3:30 - Epoxy Options
3:48 - Fill The Coil With Epoxy
3:57 - Go Have 24 Cups Of Tea And Wait
4:02 - Job Done, But Could Be Better
4:17 - Moulded Boot, Why?
4:34 - Prep The Coil
4:52 - Recover The Boot, Be Careful
5:12 - Epoxy Part 2
5:18 - Complete Potted Ignition Coil
5:29 - Anyone Can Fix This Known Fault
6:08 - BUILD.TUNE.DRIVE
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TAGS:
#highperformanceacademy #wiring #buildtunedrive #soldering #crimping #potting #epoxy #learndriveoptimise #learntotune #enginebuilding101 #dontletthesmokeout #wiring101 #dieseltuning #datanerd #racecraft #cars #motorsport #racing #boost - Авто та транспорт
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In before the 'I've been soldering things since 1240 BC and haven't burnt my car to the ground ever' comments:
Soldered connections are generally avoided in motorsport wiring applications where crimping is an option due to its superior attributes for this specific application. BUT! There are exceptions where crimping isn't possible, and one of those exceptions is when we are potting actuators such as these Toyota ignition coils, which are known to fail when exposed to the comparably extreme vibrations motorsport use introduces, compared to the drive to the shops Toyota thought you would be using them for.
That said if you prefer to solder instead of crimping all the time in your own industry or on your own personal projects, that's cool, but it doesn't change why others avoid the risk or the fact we are just simply explaining that rather than judging you personally.
Happy wiring! 😎 - Taz.
More information on booting using transiions as the example which are a little trickier than what we did here: www.hpacademy.com/blog/better-than-oem-booting-transitions-for-motorsport-wiring-free-lesson/
Further explanation on solder vs crimping in motorsport: www.hpacademy.com/blog/why-is-soldering-so-hated-in-motorsport-wiring-solder-vs-crimping-tech-talk/
I regularly witness failed and rotting wiring from solder repairs on trucks that are covered in mud every day multiple times a day. So I always crimp with heatshrink over it.
for the love of god do not crimp AND solder. it's literally the worst of both worlds.
NC1 Miatas have this problem on the coil-on-boot connectors and it WILL fail.
@__dm__ yes I don't understand that. If someone can't trust themselves to do one or the other to an acceptable standard, why on earth do they think combining both average efforts together is going to be any better 😂
Almost as bad as trimming a zip tie, but not flush, so there's a sharp piece to cut your hand on. Might as well just leave it long. Savages.
That said, still better than those that sit on their hands talking about living life, in most cases 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 flush cuts are one of the most important tools of all time!
I don't judge people, I judge wiring.
😂😂😂
Yup, making that phrase a sticker.
That needs to be on a T-shirt
I live my life one wiring job a time, for that wiring moment I am completely free! Vin Diesel, fast and soldered 16.
What really converted me to crimps was how fast and easy it was to crimp connections outside non-ideal conditions. I was hooking up a radiator fan connections outside in the rain, and I used both crimp and solder connections. The crimps went on fine. Soldering was a nightmare with issues between dealing with the extension cord for the soldering gun, needing three hands in the engine bay to properly hold the wiring and soldering gun in place, the rain making harder to get a proper connection, the wiring getting uncomfortably hot to compensate for the weather, and the time it takes for the joint to be properly secured. I still keep my soldering iron and gun around, but crimps are my go-to now.
Don't need to worry about solder failing when you twist and tape.
You have to use the right coloured tape though - Taz.
I always use red. Makes the electricity faster😊
But Andre... I've solder a wire on my stereo back in 1995, and it's still going just fine, so obviously, solder isn't an issue
Hard to argue with that! - Taz.
I've had a soldered wire joint fail and create increased resistance which lead to part of the wire corroding and created an block to the current to a fuel pump. When troubleshooting, all of the voltages were reading correct when power was applied to the pump, but the low current was keeping it from actually engaging. Soldered joints is definitely something I would avoid outside of a street car since track/race cars are going to see much harsher use and prolonged periods of greater vibration.
Hope finding that issue didn't cause too much hair pulling! Crimps are not infallible either by any means, they can still be done wrong and cause issues (especially OEM ones in an already old car turned race car), but as Andre mentions, they are certainly the lesser risk to avoid such failures as that.
Hope you've had plenty of trouble free fun behind the wheel since then - Taz.
@@hpa101 It hasn't been an issue since (8 months trouble free), but I've developed a new intermittent electrical issue that has been difficult track down. 😄 I'm going through the car doing a bunch of higher mileage mechanical maintenance, replacing the sensors, and upgrading the ECU since there's at least 100k miles on this particular JDM import engine.
Great to hear! Zac here recons 90% of wiring issues come back to some sort of grounding issue in his experience. They can appear in a few different ways though just to keep us on our toes, and there is still a lot to go wrong in the other 10% 😂
Age is sometimes more of a factor than milage too. There are services that will check the ECU rather than just replacing it which can give you better peace of mind than another random secondhand replacement just in case that's an option. That is of course only as good as the person doing that work for you 🤘
Cars are fun eh - Taz.
I follow IPC 620 protocols whenever possible. Soldering has its place. Stranded copper is generally okay but stranded silver is prone to failure at the joint, so a dry crimped connection is definitely called for. If ever in doubt, don't solder a joint.
Thanks for the solid info, i was thinking a problem might be excessive heat or resistance from a poorly soldered joint before watching. Never considered vibration. I always try (now more than earlier) to make a western union tie when possible. This by itself will hold with just heatshrink but solder confirms that. On a butt weld though or short cable epoxy is the way to go. Thanks.
crimp and solder... that's how i roll.
Awesome tech tip 🏆💪
Lack of flexibility is the issue....or more the ri 3:27 gid nature of solder..I went back to cut crimp in tinned brass..
i got a few solder joints and a few crimps in our cars. they all suck but they hadnt failed yet either. one of my solder joints was cause of a wire that the previous owner twisted and electrical taped together, and it lasted years before it rotted. so what i did cant be that bad
I worked with a race team that won GT1 @ Le Mans multiple times. The brits building those looms SWORE by soldering. I've also experienced the EXACT SAME failure Andre refers to: a terrible, intermittent problem caused by a solder break under heat shrink tubing. Nasty bugger to troubleshoot.
My Motorsport fuse box has solder…harness uses crimps…however…a professional solder joint is fine…and my harness never sees 350 degrees C!
Is it common to use a female pin/socket from another type of connector instead of soldering the wires directly to the pins? Or can the potting compound compromise the socket contact with the pins in the coil or whatever component your adapting? Or perhaps the pin/socket would likely protrude out the coil housing because it’s not deep enough?
Love the wiring content!
Does soldering actually suck though? What is inside your ECUs?
Both methods when done correctly are reliable in street OR motorsport applications too, but ultimately NOTHING lasts forever.
Soldering has it's place, but we are talking wiring connections here, not circuit boards - Taz.
So, why not crimp spade terminals to the pins and be done with solder totally?
Sweeet. What car is that coil from? Is is a a powerful coil?
❤️🔥
Not that you did anything wrong, but I'd suggest looping in service length in the boot cavity
Soldered joint have less resistance than crimped joints, I don't think anyone is going to argue there.
What I haven't found is any irrefutable evidence (peer reviewed papers or even experimental data) that proves a crimped joint is more durable than a soldered one if both are properly supported in a high vibration environment.
I use both, dependant on application.
The resistance difference is less than an ohm. Otherwise, we would see OEMs solder the battery and alternator cables. And sensors that are voltage sensitive typically have a voltage reference and ground reference.
@@patx35 crimping is primarily used because of manufacturing efficiency.
Brilliant content. If you want to know what NASA thinks of soldering, check out their 'how to splice a wire guide'.
NASA will have instructions/standards on both crimping and soldering to be fair. Just because they exist, doesn't mean that method is used everywhere on everything however 🤘
Like motorsport there will be applications where one is favoured over the other for reasons specific to that application - Taz.
@@hpa101 I was meaning the casual comment reader should check them out. They reinforce everything you've said. Electrical AND mechanical connections are essential.
Oh yes of course, interesting to look up! 100% agree! Should have added that to my reply sorry 😎 - Taz.
There’s also the issue of solder literally poisoning people. I’ve worked in the car audio industry for 16 years and I’ve met loads of “old school” installers with health issues from inhaling solder fumes on a daily basis.
I splurged on a pneumatic crimper for my shop to avoid both toxic fumes and repetitive strain issues for our employees, and I would stake my reputation on those crimps holding up just as strong as solder for the life of the vehicle.
give it a rest
Cool story, but what about the bits you can’t crimp? Or what about the modern less toxic solder?
@driftmonkey3646 'less toxic' is better than non-toxic? I know some people love soldering 'to death', but come on 😂
Soldering will always have its place and uses, doesn't mean it is perfect, nor is crimping for every and any application - Taz.
@@driftmonkey3646 circuit board soldering is done on the bench with a fume extractor. Same with solder only connectors.
Soldering is universal, it will "always fit". Crimped connectors require correct wire gauge and tools. (That can be rare on a Sunday afternoon in the garage)
I've seen too hard crimped connectors several times, where the wire is broken off, just because the person before had incorrect sizes.
Tip, if you don't have too much heat in the area where the connector is, hot glue is very good instead of epoxy.
On a soldered connector, I always use some hot glue on the solder joint, and then shrink tube on top.
The hot glue melts and joins with the shrink tube, and stiffens the joint, making the soldered joint less sensitive to vibrations.
And yes, I have driven my BMW 635 with a VEMS ECU spliced into the original Motronic harness with countless soldered joints since 2009.
About 45000 km now, so almost since 1240 BC 😅
I do agree that it's cheaper and simpler to start with soldering, as it takes less materials to do a "proper" soldering job. However, at some point, I still recommend splurging $100 in proper crimping tools and materials. Not the terrible plastic color coded crimps, but actual non-insulated solid crimps. Once I've found the right supplier, I've found it surprisingly cheap to keep the right crimps in stock, and I use it hand in hand with my soldering tools.
You are setting yourself up to fail on that Sunday afternoon job if you are not interested in making sure you are using the correct gauge wire and connector/s for the task at hand regardless if you are soldering or crimping. Many people only think they find wiring difficult because they go straight to the practical spect with 0 planing or foresight never giving themselves a real chance for a smooth job with a satisfactory result.
Outside of that, glad you found a solution that works for you and have enjoyed your long term project so far for that many KMs 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Yes I agree, sadly lots of cars are cobbled together with less than optimal parts.
Well functional wiring is sometimes way more complicated than it first can appear.
I normally work with automation, and come across cables with robotics and other moving and vibrational parts.
So I've seen my fair share of faulty cables 😅
Funny, lots of soldered connections in the aerospace industry. I would think a fighter jet going from the deck on an Arizona summer day to 30k plus feet in altitude in seconds would cause a lot of vibration, not to mention thermal expansion/contraction would be pretty stressful. If its good enough for that I'm good with it. Granted it has to be done properly, which is why all aerospace techs go through solder school. 😉
"which is why all aerospace techs go through solder school. 😉"
Exactly 😉 Another point for quality crimp tools and materials right here.
Throw up some links to your sources on that soldering, will be interesting to see what specific scenarios they are preferring to solder for compared to motorsports 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 here is but one example of solder school in the aerospace industry: mttc.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/soldered-electrical-and-electronic-assemblies-ipc/ This clearly shows that soldered connections are used on critical connections in the aerospace industry. If you'd like to see other examples you can google the subject and find a ton of information. I'm not trying to be judgemental just providing feedback against the blanket statement that soldered connections suck. I do find your channel educational and insightful and I am a subscriber.
All tools have pros and cons, including solder and crimping. Showing that people are trained to do it is very different from showing the specific use cases.
All we are doing is explaining why it is not considered suitable for many motorsports applications for specific situations (but clearly not all as here we are doing it 😅) based on real world experience in the industry.
If you love soldering so much that you can't accept that it isn't the first and only choice for every and any wiring connection, that is on you, and you can do what you like on your own projects. We're not stopping you or telling you to never solder 😎
Also note that soldering will apply to more than the connections we are talking about for a wiring harness when it comes to what you linked in your reply.
The wording in the crimping course description is interesting by comparison: mttc.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/crimp-cable-harness/
Use your brain, make educated choices on your own wiring not assumptions and have fun 🤘 - Taz.