Does Gain Staging REALLY Matter? Here's The Truth!
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- Опубліковано 26 гру 2023
- Gain Staging is a really touchy subject it seems in the audio community.
Loads of mixed opinions and ideas about what gain staging is and what it means.
Hopefully this video gives you an idea of where gain staging is important, but also reveal the times when you really shouldn't stress about it.
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The thing is that a lot of people get defensive about things like gain staging because a lot of the pros say “I do X or Y” and people just take that as the end-all-be-all for mixing and staging etc. The reality is it does not matter as long as there is no unwanted distortion as you put it. If it sounds right, it is right!
Absolutely!
Your channel has quickly become my favorite for music production. What I would've given to have a resource like this when I was learning to record 15 years ago. Great explanations that are clear, concise, and backed by real application.
Thank you so much. Very glad to hear it’s been helpful!
Your videos are awesome! I came across them recently and have found them so clear, informative and helpful. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I'm an independent musician from Ireland and I record all my music at home and have been doing my best to learn how to mix my songs too and you have taught me a lot.
Hey Elliot! Thanks mate! So glad I could be of help to you on your audio journey!
I'd love to see you do a video on balance, and the levels you aim for on the indivdual tracks, groups and mix bus.
Sure man, I’ve got a few mixing videos, if you look through my videos there is one about mixing with clarity and separation - I do some basic leveling and mixing - might be helpful
I agree! The first gain stage is indeed during recording the tracks. For mixing, my mentor strongly suggests gain staging if using analog emulation plugins especially if they are a 1-2-1 emulation. Personally, I use a lot of Acustica stuff so gain staging is really a must for my workflow.
I usually like to gain stage all my tracks to -10db just because I have a template, and in this way I'm hitting my plugin compressors and other plugins at their sweet spots. So yeah, I think it matters
Sounds like it works well for you! if you have a template set up like you said, then it matters to your workflow
@@spinlightstudios I also agree with your points on being careful when recording and mixing. Really nice video and great content!
Thanks a lot
Yes it does! Bring it on!
Lessgo
Great, maybe the best video I’ve seen on gate staging.
Thanks legend!
Never thought of the trim plugin at the beginning of the mix bus. Gonna try that from now on instead of adjusting the fader.
It’s definitely a useful way to stop things getting too hot before any bus processing!
I do it all the time, works very well
I Usually have a mix bus feeding into the master, but it achieves exactly the same thing. Main reason I do it that way is I have more routing options and I prefer to automate a fader as opposed to a parameter in a plug in if I want to do gain automation, so I tend to keep all my gain adjustments to faders, but as I say, it achieves the same end result otherwise.
Gain staging saved my mixes. It was one of the vital key elements that I strongly recommend all engineers to understand at a basic fundamental foundation after that you can decide how much of it you follow etc. you don’t need to always do it but it’s important to understand why it’s done.
A hobbyist is NOT an engineer.
Just because we futz around with digital audio doesn't make us audio hounds engineers.
Just like people who " code" claiming they are "developers"
Gain staging is something every real audio engineer knows inside and out.
Folks can have the opinion of gain staging not being important, but after my lifelong experiences with all things DSP, IT MATTERS
I have been running hot on a synth studio (zero DB), with one indirect mic input. I thought it sounded better; I am recording to a ZoomR24 hardware 24 track. I gave up working with a 20+ year old Sonar DAW with Sonar processors. Over Thanksgiving weekend this year, I helped a friend set up a simple vocal/piano studio so she could easily record UA-cam videos with decent sound quality. I talked her out of recording it all through her iPhone mic and recorder which is awful. We used the 16bit/44.1kHz USB recorder built into the piano to capture the digital piano and her vocal. I kept the mic noise down by running the dynamic Shure SM58 through a mixer first and then to the .25 inch mic input of the piano. We added a little EQ and gain at the mixer and a little more in the piano software control. Still low level, but went ahead and recorded for a test. Placed the 2track finished song in Logic and added one standard compressor with limiter and adjustable input and output. Balanced the in and out after setting compression attack/release/threshold and ratio.... and ended up with a very good recording. It should not have been this good, but the compressor in Logic was 20 years ahead of tech from my Sonar and it was so transparent that I could not believe the quality. It was incredible!
This changed how I am going to record for myself. I will be using very little gain staging on weak synth signals and mastering in Logic from now on. A high-quality compressor changed my life forever! I was always told that the equipment is not near as important as the skill of audio engineering, but they were wrong. Yes, my friend benefitted from my audio engineering skills, setting up the gain staging, EQ, and compressor, but without that Logic compressor, it would never have sounded that good. A cheap standard stage microphone run through a cheap digital piano with mic input and WOW. (been audio engineering my own music for 35 years, been all through reel to reel, MIDI multi-track, 4 track cassette, Roland VS880 recorder, computer DAWs and now on a Zoom SD 24 track recorder).
There are 3 take-always from this video none of which I would consider a need for gain-staging:
1. Some pre-amps and plugins add distortion/color at certain input levels, make sure if you are getting this effect it is intentional and adjust to taste.
2. Avoid clipping when recording and exporting. Levels just need to be sufficiently above the noise floor for recording unless you are going for 1 with hardware.
3. If setting levels a certain way helps your workflow, you do you.
I’d still say a lot of that comes into having a gain staging mindset - thanks for watching mate
Literally just sent a message to you about this haha you’re welcome for the content idea 😂
Haha yes I saw your comment 😂 I have had a lot of comments asking about this for months so figured the time was right. Hopefully it’s helpful!
@@spinlightstudios lol no time like the present. Thanks for the content bud.
It’s really a good idea to gain stage while using pre fader metering in Logic, not post fader as you are using here. This way you know exactly what the signal is prior to hitting any plugins
My opinion is that it does matter but that people get way too specific about how to gain stage. The important thing for me is not to start with levels too hot when I'm bringing tracks in. Whether I hit -25 or -12 with a particular instrument doesn't matter. But if I bring in the kick drum peaking at -3, then suddenly I'm adjusting all my balances to that. So then I end up with a track where everything is slammed right up against 0dB and it makes doing further adjustments harder than they need to be.
I personally mix into a limiter, so clipping isn't a problem. But if I'm already getting 2-3dB of gain reduction from the limiter and I haven't brought in all the instruments, that's an issue. Obviously you can bring everything back down, but if you've already set up a bunch of sends and parallel processing that can mess with how much level you're feeding into those. Or if you've already got automation on the tracks, you might need to bring all of that down too.
Secondly, some plugins don't care what level you hit them at. Some sound better when overloaded. But some do have a sweet spot. So it's important to know how your plugins work and feed the right level into them.
Lastly, if you keep adding plugins to a track without level matching, you run the risk of being fooled by the increase in volume. Louder sounds better. So you think you've improved the track, and you come back the next day and it sounds like shit. You turn off the plugins and it sounds way better. A bit of gain staging in the form of level matching can help you avoid that.
Sorry for the longwinded reply. The point is that there are good workflow and practical reasons to gain stage. But if you bring in a vocal and it sounds good in the track but it's peaking at -5dB, it doesn't mean you now need to turn everything down so it peaks at -18. That's ridiculous and a waste of time.
I think everyone you said sounds reasonable and makes sense. I think some things just aren’t set in stone and there is some give in circumstances where some people get all twisted up over it!
with mixing i got so tired of not being able to see the waveforms that well in the arrange view with a handful of tracks at once, so i just started raising the clip gain on all my tracks until the peaks was getting close to the 0db threshold of the audio file and back it off a bit and realized that gain staging isn't really that important when it comes to mixing. theres always ways to back off hot levels but in general i found that louder really was better and my plugins responded the way i wanted with hotter signals coming in. ill have several tracks going into the red but with proper limiting and dynamic structure at all stages in the mix, ive never looked back
I hate it when the waveform is super small - you can boost it with the waveform zoom in logic - but still… I like it to be visible without doing anything!
same bro, also the resolution on the track zoom gets real pixelated the larger it is
I probably would have lowered the gain on that Tambo so that the fader sat closer to zero and easier to get the right level but the rest, no problem. Totally agree.
whatever works! Which is kind of the point, that would work for you, I don’t really mind just pulling it right down - neither way is going to make the tambourine sound any better. Thanks for watching mate!
what’s confusing as hell is how faders via tracks or mix bus may show in the red but i’m not hearing clipping. so, i check metering plug-ins - they seem more reliable than the channels fader. but the two are not the same in showing levels actually. any insight on this what the most reliable way to check for clipping / +3 dB is? thank you!
I’m not sure I can speak for every DAW, but In logic when you go into the red (over zero) you won’t hear any clipping or distortion. If your mix bus is in the red and you export your mix, then you will hear digital clipping on the exported file.
Same workflow ❤🔥❤🔥
🙌🏼🙌🏼
Whats amusing about the gain staging debate is how many people prioritise this over more important things like getting the arrangement of a song right, or drum tuning, or guitar intonation, etc. Theres bigger fish to fry before you need to obsess whether your hitting convertets at minus 12 or minus 18db.
Absolutely! The song comes first! Gotta make sure what you’re working on actually sounds good before anything else!
So I shouldn’t be doing gain automation when I’m metering comp takes? Bass for example, I’m not a great bass player, so it takes a handful of takes to get through a song 4 to 8 notes at a time. I don’t change the input settings, but there’s performance variation where one take will be around -7 dB VU and the next one comes in at 9.3. Wave forms look fine, but would you let that kind of range slide and put a compressor on with no gain processing? There also seems to be some kind of compromise dance around getting a “healthy” wave form and metering at a safe level. Tips there also?
I would just comp the bass track so it sounds good. Then add compression after. I track bass with a hardware compressor generally to even out the performance as we go. There’s no right or wrong.
As long you’re not clipping or creating unwanted distortion / saturation set the level accordingly!
@@spinlightstudios sounds like surgical gain staging is just doing the compressor’s work for it but worse since I’m human. The big peaks are just double digits in red, so they look scary. Thanks for your reply.
Important but people tend to overthink about it
Agreed!
Can we use the Gain (in stock on Logic) instead of Trim (Slate digital) to put down the level on Mix Bus Sir?
Absolutely!
@@spinlightstudios Thaink you legende
What is the difference between trimming down the gain on the mix bus and having a channel strip first on the mix bus and pull the fader down on the strip?
Probably nothing, if it has a trim in the channel strip it’s maybe the same thing. But using logics gain plugin or slates trim aren’t modeled plugins - so it’s literally just a gain adjustment and not passing through an emulation of any kind. Guess it’s maybe safer in that sense to avoid colouration. If you can’t hear an issue - it’s probably not an issue.
@@spinlightstudios I don't really hear anything, you know I have the ssl from plugin alliance crossed through my mix for the console vibe and also on the mix buss , the mix got a lil bit hot and I just lowered the volume fader on the plugin because I thought that this would work like some kind of trimmer
Even at the top of that plugin there is an input trim - that might be a better option than the fader. But whatever works!
I think Gain Staging is the word that everybody use and not all understand.
Setting Gain right at the beginning!
Starts at the Pres and the Converters. If you go to high in your converters you get some wanted or unwanted distortion.
So start Your recording with the right levels.
In my workflow i use the clip gain and set them right for me so i have all the length of my faders.
Sounds good to me!
I think gain staging is important (in the digital realm in this instance) when it comes to headroom and noise floor. Because everything is 'loud' these days gain staging has become less important. Also too, using plugins to gain stage or attenuate makes it less of a practical application and maybe has lost it's appeal. Dynamics are great imo.
I've been working with audio gear for over 40 years and never once thought about gain staging. I mean, the process you describe never had a name (AFAIK), it was always just part of what you did when preparing a session. I suppose now that it has a name it can become an art or craft all of its own, but if you don't know how to set levels appropriately what are you even doing trying to make multichannel music?
Exactly, it’s never really been something I thought about -
Just something I would do because it made sense
Most people that talk about gain staging don’t even truly understand it anyway… they just like to throw the term around.. just like “workflow”.. Home-staging is where it’s at ;)
I know what I’m talking about 🤙🏻
Didn’t mean you. Just many “know it alls” trolling forums on their gain-staging crusade.
Haha for sure!
Your video(s) sounds like you have your preamp cranked. They sound over driven. It would probably sound good if you were tracking a vocalist , but for VOs doesn't really work.
I don’t crank the preamp when recording voice overs
Unless you're using analog gear or analog emulating plugins, it isn't necessary at all.
And if you are it is 😜
Is it me, or did gain staging become a kinda buzzword? I agree, it comes down to good project management.
I think so!
Of course it matters...Try an analogue mixer and see. In digital it doesn t matter much, especially with 32 bits, but digital is TOTAL SHIT. In digital many plugins sound better with -18dB, so it matters still.
For sure! Analogue mixer/console is where it matters the most!
@@spinlightstudios ye mate. I knew what you meant. On the digital realm, people don t even know what it means, lol :)
😂😂
@@spinlightstudios looool