The ‘new’ aeroad should have come 4 years ago! Its a fix for the old one nothing more! Happy to come on the show and discuss the Tavelo from bare bones…
That 1 bolt cockpit stem is pretty much the reason I decided not to buy an aeroad. One should not need to frequently check to make sure it isn't coming loose. I check my traditional stem bolts once a year along with every other bolt on my bikes. They never come loose, but I check them anyways. Also nice having two of them! Penny for your thoughts on including 4 bolts in the stressed member of the handlebar top.
Agreed and it should have come as a free fix for customers with severe steapost issues instead of more grease and/or rubber sleeve that fails over time. Conviniently once you ran out of the wrranty period.
OMG you guys nailed it. Crystal clear vision on the Aeroad. "thank GOD it's still an aero bike" "they didn't sell us bs changes, they just made it better"
Y'all nailed the critiques of the new Canyon. The seatpost holes need a Varia adapter for both quarter turn & the newer style mounting interface for the camera version. The only rear lights worth using, full stop. The bike should ship with the fastest bars, and replacement drops should not cost the price of other reputable full 1 piece cockpits. $100-$150, max. The T25 tool is a gimmick, but a single broach size for all frame bolts is nice (check Canyon's warning that basically says use a torque wrench, not the tool for proof that at best it's an emergency tool) Part of the reason they will have gone T25 is that people have been stripping the cockpit clamp bolt. Torx are mich harder to strip than hex, especially compared with low quality allen wrenches. Canyon's insistence on sticking with a single stem bolt, which is in COMPRESSION, is flat out dangerous. Not only do many users need more than the max torque spec to keep the stem from loosening, but the single bolt has zero redundancy. Bolts work far better in tension, and this cockpit has a documented history of loosening and slipping over time. As Peak Torque has said, this quill style arrangement is just unnecessarily dangerous. Closed TA threads are a miss for me. Ask Mapdec: those threads are unchasable if closed. If you're unlucky enough to cross thread your TA, you're fucked. 50mm hooked rims are a win. Hookless is shit and we should all be able to run more than 73psi and not fear blowoffs. Until hookless tech is mature enough to allow normal riding pressures for people over 60kg, it's unsafe.Your customers are not beta testers. Bring a safe solution to market, even if it only has a limited range of compatible tires, or get stuffed. The safety factor should, at minimum, match hooked rims. Crank lengths on xl and xxl are 175. That's a miss for me. Time and again testing has proved that there are only positives to shorter cranks. 172.5 should come on those sizes.
Great comments, no idea why these guys think Torx is inferior to Allen, probably they have been using the wrong size key, which is quite easy with Torx. And yeah, hookless is just nuts, hopefully it will soon be history for road bikes.
This week’s NEW Nero Show! The only cycling podcast that REWARDS you for listening, holds its speed, and is stiffly compliant. Presented this week in a 36cm TUCKED compact delivery! Get tucked in FOR THE NERO SHOW.
We are working on some big changes to the studio over the next few weeks. We had to take a step back this week, while we wait for a few things to arrive. Hopefully we will start implementing the changes on either the next episode or early August.
I want to love canyon road bikes but I cannot get over the proprietary steerer tube headset mechanism. Makes servicing and adjusting impossible. Is this a deal breaker for you all?
I stick with rim brakes because life is easier as a home mechanic. However, this new Aeroad is definitely compelling. I also worked at bike shops and I guarantee they'll want to sell this bike over the competition because shop mechanics will have less hassle fixing them.
German here: really funny - if you take Canyon, Cube and Rose (another German based Semi-online-only Bike Brand with some flagship Stores) you have approximately 40-50% of all bikes on the Street. Giant is near to irrelevant in my perception.
Pogacar put more time into Jonas on the descents. He has that punch to make the separation on the tight uphill turns but the descents are really where he got separation in GC. I think a more aero bike would 100% suit him as long as it doesn’t have too much added weight. The SL8 seems like a great middle ground like Jesse mentioned
When Primoz dropped his chain on last year Giro ITT, people were cursing SRAM like there’s no tomorrow 😂 so yeah, people do look at groupset in the tour
my LTWOO e-gr has completely died. RD electronics fried from water ingress. Replacement on the way, but I'm just like 'cmon guys, I really want you to succeed but you've got to sort this shit out'. Also, I too have that green rapha tee and don't bother ironing it ;)
I'm planning on building out a China bike but honestly the groupset is the one thing I'll probably get from Shimano/Sram. I really don't want to deal with "mechanicals" and other issues like yours.
The same thing happened to me with the Ltwoo-EGR, first contact with water and it stopped responding. I put it to dry, disconnect and connect and it turned on again. I read in a forum that they applied liquid electric tape on the cable connection with the derailleur, I bought one for 5 dollars and problem solved... I have washed it and put it under heavy rain and it works perfect. However, it is a terrible disappointment that they have not solved the problem that was supposed to be fixed before the official launch, I am sure that in the future I will have the same problem that TraceVelo had with the swingarm. Poor quality control and even worse communication.
@@sebastianvidalalegria6868 good to know, I'll give that a go. If it works I'll have 2 RDs so would be a win. Was yours able to charge? No light comes on when I connect charger either.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he uses 28's anymore ever since the new standards recommend a 4mm difference between internal rim width and tire. Enve uses 25mm hookless internal so the min they can use is 29 but Conti doesn't sell 29 or the TT tire greater than 28. So they are basically forced to switch to regular non TT 30s.
@ChrisMillerCycling Great insight! Remember that Canyon updated the Aeroad already in 2023/24 with the saddle bolt moving to the toptube, another seatpost and another screw to tighten the cockpit. With the very new version you also have no choice anymore to use another mount as Canyons very own. Thats a big disadvantage. Bizar how many many Canyon Aeroads are on sale nowadays, where owners prefer to loose 2000-3000 euros or more on a bike they bought in 2022-2023-2024 to just gonna get the newest version!!! Amazing. Last thing i will mention: who will buy for example the beautiful CFR Alpecin replica...............I do not believe young riders will. Most of them dont have money OR they get a sponsored bike. I believe that many of these CFR's go to middle aged men that dont look as sexy on a bike as MVDP certainly does. Ironically said: how sad......................... Thanks again guys for this episode.
Going to be a few changes over the next couple of weeks while we move a few things around and find a permanent home, stick with us, I’m hoping it will be worth it in the long run.
Monsieurs Coyle et Miller, the question isn't would Pogi win on a mid-level or "slower" bike, he would regardless of the brand, the question is what group set and gearing range would he use to win? Clearly the way Pogi rides and with 165 mm cranks and at least an 11-34 cassette, you can see he "spins to win" and poor Vini is limited on his Cervelo by his 11-28 range. As always keep the content coming cant wait for ep. 100.
Chris you felt that the previous version the cockpit was not good and to much flex. try the CP0015 cockpit (pro version with 17degree angle) that is much stiffer! i rode both the CP0018 and CP0015 in 120mm version and there was a huge difference.
The memory of you guys is amazing. Before the tour you were certain that the Enve Melee doesn't deserve being ridden in the tour. Then it won the gravel stage. No comment from you. And today you claim the Look to be the slowest. I wish you could hold your opinion as well as Dave holds his speed.
We said the geo of the melee would be a challenge for a pro in road races and that it is an uninspiring looking bike. 100% stand by that ...I would add the stage Turgis won was a gravel bike stage ... perfect for the Melee 😉
Nuts how the Aeroad has changed hardly at all in appearance over the past 10 years. If you go back and look at a Madone, Venge or Foil from 2014 they look super dated, but an Aeroad from 2014 looks very contemporary (outside of rim brakes). The Katyusha Aeroads from 2014 look amazing still. Weight for the 2014 Aeroad frame was 960g, curious as to what this one is. Prior to entrance in the US market, Canyon used to be amazingly cheap. Ultimates with Ultegra and Cosmic Carbones in 50mm were $3200 USD in 2015 (4200USD adjusted for inflation), now equivalent is more like $6300 in the US.
They probably just had a good understanding of aerodynamics early. Laws of physics haven't changed, so once we understand aero more - in theory all frames will sort of converge on a solution that is optimally aero.
@ChrisMillerCycling as a 49 year old who came to racing at the ripe old age of 45 and is now mixing it up in the P12 fields in the US, you should absolutely race with the Conti team! Your future may not be in the World Tour, but the wisdom and experience you can share with the U23's can be invaluable to them. Plus, there is something very rewarding about being in the mix at an age where you are old enough to be everyone else's dad. I have a 20 year old son who is making a run at going pro and it is the most rewarding thing I have ever done to challenge myself to get to a fitness level to be able to race with him in the Pro, Cat 1/2 fields here in the US. I think you'd enjoy it immensely going in with a mindset of being there to serve and mentor that next generation. Plus it is inspirational for us older guys to watch other older guys still kicking ass!
Thanks for the comment man. Still have a few scares from the way our own team ended to be prepared to jump straight back in, but I love your positivity. Thanks man.
The 454 NSWs are actually really light for 60mm deep wheels. I owned a set and they come in at 1360 without valves or rim tape which is significantly lighter than the DTs (which I’ve also owned). I don’t think there’s any weight savings from the previous gen bike. You’d need to go super shallow wheels and/or 1x and/or exotic parts to get the aeroad at 6.8.
That bike looks so tiny with Coyle on it. I get that elite racers like the lower weight and twitchiness of smaller frames, but that bike must be 2 sizes smaller than factory recommended for someone of Jesse’s height and inseam. Would be curious as to why Jesse goes so small and whether he recommends small for others.
@@nerocoaching Don't think so. I recall you said you typically get a "56," which both Trek and Specialized say are sized for guys 175-180cm in height and come defaulted with 100cm stem. You're considerably taller and got a 130cm stem, if I recall. And you clearly have a very long seatpost. 1:07:08 in the vid shows you next to a normie: your chest is over your stem whereas the top of his head is over his. Anyhow, would be an interesting podcast topic: are bike manufacturers recommending frames too large? Or is it just that elite guys like you like a smaller stack/reach, and if so, what are the considerations behind it and might they apply to non-racers too?
@@kreed4 they recommend bikes that are too big. And not by a small amount either. To use your example, a 56cm frame is gonna be several sizes too big for an average 178cm rider. I don’t know why this is for sure, but I suspect the sizing is ancient information that hasn’t been updated as frame geometry has changed. On a frame from 1980, a 56cm might be ‘medium’, I don’t know. But it isn’t now.
@@HkFinn83 thanks. Agree completely. Still curious as to how this could be, and how it holds across most brands. Would seem going smaller (or the right fit as you say) would be the default as they could point to lower weight, better handling, and perhaps marginal cost savings. Bike brands aren’t irrational, so just has me curious as to how we got to where we are.
would like to hear how Jessy's new bike handles in a technical crit course (thorough review of LTwoo Blue, but I'd like to know how the frame handles and if it has any vertical compliance at all or if you feel all the imperfections in the road).
So the 2021 Aeroad (at least CFR) actually came in multiple iterations (had all versions of the frame). First one - seatpost bolt at the back, without the rubber on top of the frame. Crazy creaking sounds when pedaling. Second one - seatpost bolt still at the back, but with the infamous rubber on top of the frame (this was better but you still had to lube it once in a while + add a tape to the seatpost to avoid creaking). And then the third one - which Canyon just replaced for me earlier in the year . It already has the seatpost bolt up front. Finally solved properly. But generally, over the iterations it feels like the last version of 2021 Aeroad solved all its mistakes alraedy, so moving the the new one has smaller advantages. But a decent bike and kudos to canyon for keeping the pure aero bikes spirit alive. My biggest pro for Aeroad: Those cockpit systems, the fact that you can remove the sides and pack it in bike case easily is priceless. Cannot imagine removing the whole iintegrated stem each time I fly. For me this is the single most added value thats usually underpreciated. Biggest con: Also the cockpit system. Its amazing that you get flexibility in stack height and handlebar widht, but geez, we're all not the same size humans, at least if they'd sell (for whatever the price would be) options to replace the center T part for a longer/shorter stem. P.S.: Had a good laugh when you mentioned the first version of the garmin mount, it really gets in your face, solved it by placing few spacers between the front bolts moutn and handlebar to tilt it downwards.
I have a 2023 Aeroad bought in June (arrived 3 weeks later) that fortunately came with the new seatpost clamp design. Couldn’t be happier with it. I nonsense easy to put together right out of the box. No issues at all in the past year. I also bought Canyon’s front headlight mount that comes with the integrated Garmin mount. My Garmin sits perfectly you horizontal and flush with the aero bar/stem. I wouldn’t swap out my current Aeroad for the new one (mostly because the seat clamp issue was already solved on mine), but I am going to look into whether I can order just the new aero drop bars for my setup.
The analysis of the upgrades on the new Canyon was really well considered . As for the groupset on Jesse’s bike - reputation for reliability and smooth gear changes trumps everything - Shimano only for me - having had a nightmare with Campagnolo EPS early on in my bike ownership
In Germany we got a Partner of Canyon (RadRace - Online Content Creator and Race/Event Organizer) that got shops in Hamburg and newly in Berlin were you can testride/borrow/fix your canyon bike and I think that is what they need in every market. It solves so much of the problems/bias people have towards canyon.
the majority of the aero gains are by tweaking rider position so you're absolutely right, it should come with the fastest setup. The ability to put an aerobar on the bike might be looking forward to the possibility of one bike races.
i agree that you two joining a conti team and focusing the content on yourselves wouldn't add much to the show, but i think there could be a lot there if you start telling the stories / getting the perspectives of the guys you're racing with
Funny how Chris predicted the issue with the Chinese shifters in previous podcasts before the Jessy made order. He literally said “is not reliable and you will have some quirks with it” , here we are now. Back to Shimano.
Beta testing groupsets … it’s fine for someone with time to waste riding around for the fun of it. But when time is crunched, it’s just not acceptable. It’s such a pity and a missed opportunity for L-twoo.
Canyon just came out with fidlock aero bottles. They are made specifically for the aeroad and speedmax. I already ordered them. They will be the aero bottles everyone will get once we people find out about them😂
I have the "og" aeroad slx with the rubber grommet around the seatpost and never had any issues with it. No creaking, no wearmarks, no slip, no need to apply grease/tape/anything. To me the "issue" with the older style seatpost has been blown out of proportion
That Dare was seriously cool looking and the front end looked so fast with the deepest headtube in the peloton , since they took advantage of a recent UCI rule change
I’ve always been a trek guy but the latest Madone was disappointing in that it looks like a climbing bike but somehow weighs the same as an aero bike so I just bought the new aeroad. They’ve definitely ticked all the boxes for what I’m looking for in a fast aero aggressive bike with this new release. one of the things that was holding me back in the past was the difficulty to swap stem lengths which is now no problem. And I really like the ability to change bar styles and widths on the fly without having to rebleed brakes depending on what I’m doing.
Problem with the wedge method on the Aeroad as a seat clamp is the seat post is always going to be levering it out. Hence, the post is going to slip and even more likely with more seat post exposed.
Honestly, if it was done right (Not 100% sure that would be) I'm feeling like Conti Team experiences would really blow the channel up ( In a good way).
Brakes are highly dependent on how well the bleed was done - any air bubbles will hurt a lot, I think the LTWOO has a grub screw that can push the fluid a bit - what pads you've got, and what rotors you've got. So it's definitely something you can improve without chucking out the rest of the groupset. Being equivalent to carbon rim brakes is a clue to me that something there isn't quite right.
I am an aircraft mechanic, and I hate Torx screws. But they did say in the marketing that they made custom T-25 screws that are deeper to help prevent stripping of screws.
When you guys were talking about the disc brake differences and how good Shimano's performance is I was a bit confused. I went to California last November and was descending down Mulholland from the top to the Coast and I almost shitted myself a couple of times because my brakes were fading and feeling like I was going to lose my brakes, and the grinding feeling like they were full of dust or sand, it was outright scary and forced me to go slow. Way slower than I'm capable of going. The rotors are fairly new and the pads the same, I never get squealing or rub so they work good for the most part, but I feel when I needed them the most they did not inspire any confidence at all. I've never had good rim brakes act like that. I live and ride in the mountainous region of the North Eastern US and ride descends all day but I don't have to use my brakes as long and I know the roads better so I know what to expect. In California if you misjudge or make a mistake you're going off a cliff and possibly to your death. I think I would rather have rim brakes the next time I ride in California.
Things i'd like Canyon to change, pressfit 86 (why in heavens name)? Or rather, they should have changed to BB386 or T47. For those that don't understand, a bearing with 41mm OD instead of 42mm is less durable. Races are narrower as balls are smaller. Client option of handlebar combo reach. Client option to chose crankarm length. As these two aren't optional, it means you have to buy new at the side (add cost).
100% agree with testing disc brakes down around berry. I feel unbelievably safer descending berry and jamberoo mountain now. It’s actually super fun. Imagine if they resurface berry mountain one day, it will be epic
You can't request canyon to do anything, you have to buy them and do it yourself.. but the speedmax cfr i think they can customize, according to that lionel sanders hq visit. The Defy would really live up to it's name if pog won on it 😅
Doran’s Mobile Bike Repair here: T25 is okay, anything smaller and give me a hex Allen key. You are correct, you do need a high end Torx driver, otherwise they break. A low end small hex Allen key will be more durable . I love the simplicity of nearly only one tool needed. If only their engineers could have figured out how to do the water bottle cage bolts with it too!!! Lol❤❤❤❤
The button never returned to its original position hence the last shift cycle was never completed at the shifter, even though the derailleur did shift. Once you push it again and no shift occurs, the shifters probably returns all the way back out, hence shift cycle is now completed and its will shift properly the next attempt. Sorry if I’m not explaining it properly 😢
Next time i learn something here would be first time. These 2 are like 2 uncles who get into it and don't wanna leave the family gathering , when Sram won last year and Visma gone 1x was the talk of town, Shimano was all over the news losing teams and dominance, now Shimano is back on top but there is no news for this show. Tadej's bike is a mix of many components, mostly not seen on many other teams , what makes him fast is his cycling IQ, conditioning and riding position
Here in Korea, Canyon actually has a display shop where you can see / touch / pick up the bike. You still need to have to buy online. I wonder if they do that on other countries too
Hi Chris, love the show. I am buying a new bike by the end of the year. I ride terrain well known to you up around The Sally Gap in Wicklow, Ireland. I live in Greystones and usually go up Past Lugala, on to the gap, down into Laragh and maybe Rathdrum on the way back. In your opinion what is the best type of bike for this terrain. I have a Bianchi Infinito CV Ultegra mechanical (2020) right now. I am a big guy. 105kg, 6’3”. I am not a racer, but enjoy fast descents. I climb slowly unsurprisingly. Anyway 2 questions really. What is the best type of bike in general for this terrain and secondly given my size and type of riding, what’s likely best for me. Budget wise. Mid to high end. Thanks a mill!
Torx head are much better for driving screws and putting on torque without stripping out if you can get the bit straight. Allen keys have the benefit of running a ball end, and that works great for bikes when you can't get the wrench in dead straight and you need to go at a slight angle. In both cases you need quality fitting wrenches. Otherwise you'll strip out either one. Lastly, torx is probably unnecessary for bikes because you're not putting that much torque on the bolt. Everything's done at 5 nm, minus a crank bolt give or take. Allen keys are just fine.
I can say i haven't been a fan of Canyon, as they have not been doing any real changes since gen1(apart from rim to disc). This is the first time I've seen genuine positive changes. Kudos!
I'm on the original er9 and I have a flawlessly working groupset. But make no mistake: IMO this is NOT on a level with Simano and Sram. It's okay for the money but I too find the RD shifting speed too slow for my liking. It just feels somewhat laggy. I also don't like the overshifting feature of the RD as it makes shifting to bigger cogs noisy. I'm using Formula rotors and Campagnolo calipers bc I don't like how the LTWOO gen1 calipers look. It works great but it's also not mindblowing. I'm a tinkerer, so I'm ok with it. But this is far from a perfect product. So if you want a safe bet, look elsewhere.
Apparently in Europe the mid range Aeroad prices have increased by about £1k. I think the pro purple / green oil slick colour is amazing, but I do agree that their bikes have always lacked a bit of soul.
I could be wrong, but aren’t all the aero gains made in the new Aeroad because of the handlebar. I forget which video it was but they spoke about the whole bike being X watts faster (I believe 14w) but then later in the video spoke about the aero bars at 35cm being X watts faster. Fair play to them, that’s what specialized did with the SL8
20w at 45km/h is equivalent to about 4w at 22km/h. So yeah, aero is still having an advantage, but you have to consider that Tadej's V4RS is rarely ever seeing 45km/h of headwind. He's usually in a draft, and when he's not on a wheel he's climbing at a much slower speed.
I feel the problem with Ltwoo for you guys is you are both used to groupsets that cost more than 2000$. If someone coming off a tiagra tries this will probably feel they are great…
Canyon are well enough established now that if you’re into bikes or have friends that ride, you don’t need to see it in person to know it’s going to be great. Maybe someone completely new to it might feel safer buying from a bike shop but that’s pretty dated now too. Maybe it’s a Victorian and NSW thing. Plenty of Canyons in Melbourne areas.
Those proprietary Aeroad cockpits are a no go, and that bar with the mount system is kinda ugly too. I think it would look better if the fork was deeper too
Can you guys mention on a episode in the future that the tour magazine rankings occur for different bikes on different wheelsets, and at different depths. Considering these factors on their own can account for 5+watt differences alone
I understand Tour magazine test with both a standard wheelset (Zipp 404), as well as the factory wheels. They spoke to the guy from tour magazine on a previous episode.
Basically the biggest benefit of a new Chinese bike are wider tires. not worth the $ . Just buy the wheels and shorter cranks. Easy upgrade for any bike . Thank you 🙏
Does this podcast hold its speed?
Made my day, Dave
Only when they use arrows pointing at their wheels in the thumbnail
Like hell it does
most aero cycling podcast there is
Fair play - well delivered!
The ‘new’ aeroad should have come 4 years ago! Its a fix for the old one nothing more! Happy to come on the show and discuss the Tavelo from bare bones…
That 1 bolt cockpit stem is pretty much the reason I decided not to buy an aeroad. One should not need to frequently check to make sure it isn't coming loose. I check my traditional stem bolts once a year along with every other bolt on my bikes. They never come loose, but I check them anyways. Also nice having two of them!
Penny for your thoughts on including 4 bolts in the stressed member of the handlebar top.
@@MrKipperfishyeah it’s gotta add some weaknesses in the bars, there’s no way around it
100% agree. It's a tweak on the previous with a shit ton of paid for hype from GCN and others..
@@MrKipperfishdo you use medium strength loctite (243) for maximum paranoia? (maybe it's just me)
Agreed and it should have come as a free fix for customers with severe steapost issues instead of more grease and/or rubber sleeve that fails over time. Conviniently once you ran out of the wrranty period.
"The Cotswolds" is to bike development what the Nurburgring is to cars.
It’s an expensive place to live so you need all the shill cash you can get
HAHA!!!
That comment cracked me up 😂
“I’m a day flasher. You’re a day flasher.” 😅
Im a day flasher too…. Sydney traffic is a blood sport
Best time of the week is when Nero drops
That’s cool to read Ryan, cheers
OMG you guys nailed it. Crystal clear vision on the Aeroad. "thank GOD it's still an aero bike" "they didn't sell us bs changes, they just made it better"
Such a good point @29:30, MVDP looks damn good on that Aeroad, you couldn't get a better sponsored rider for it.
Y'all nailed the critiques of the new Canyon. The seatpost holes need a Varia adapter for both quarter turn & the newer style mounting interface for the camera version. The only rear lights worth using, full stop.
The bike should ship with the fastest bars, and replacement drops should not cost the price of other reputable full 1 piece cockpits. $100-$150, max.
The T25 tool is a gimmick, but a single broach size for all frame bolts is nice (check Canyon's warning that basically says use a torque wrench, not the tool for proof that at best it's an emergency tool)
Part of the reason they will have gone T25 is that people have been stripping the cockpit clamp bolt. Torx are mich harder to strip than hex, especially compared with low quality allen wrenches.
Canyon's insistence on sticking with a single stem bolt, which is in COMPRESSION, is flat out dangerous. Not only do many users need more than the max torque spec to keep the stem from loosening, but the single bolt has zero redundancy. Bolts work far better in tension, and this cockpit has a documented history of loosening and slipping over time. As Peak Torque has said, this quill style arrangement is just unnecessarily dangerous.
Closed TA threads are a miss for me. Ask Mapdec: those threads are unchasable if closed. If you're unlucky enough to cross thread your TA, you're fucked.
50mm hooked rims are a win. Hookless is shit and we should all be able to run more than 73psi and not fear blowoffs. Until hookless tech is mature enough to allow normal riding pressures for people over 60kg, it's unsafe.Your customers are not beta testers. Bring a safe solution to market, even if it only has a limited range of compatible tires, or get stuffed. The safety factor should, at minimum, match hooked rims.
Crank lengths on xl and xxl are 175. That's a miss for me. Time and again testing has proved that there are only positives to shorter cranks. 172.5 should come on those sizes.
Great comments, no idea why these guys think Torx is inferior to Allen, probably they have been using the wrong size key, which is quite easy with Torx. And yeah, hookless is just nuts, hopefully it will soon be history for road bikes.
This week’s NEW Nero Show! The only cycling podcast that REWARDS you for listening, holds its speed, and is stiffly compliant. Presented this week in a 36cm TUCKED compact delivery! Get tucked in FOR THE NERO SHOW.
Great episode this week. Audio was off this week and had some definite echo that isn't usually there.
Good to know!
I think it's the 2 x microphones and each others microphones catching what the other person says
We are working on some big changes to the studio over the next few weeks. We had to take a step back this week, while we wait for a few things to arrive. Hopefully we will start implementing the changes on either the next episode or early August.
I want to love canyon road bikes but I cannot get over the proprietary steerer tube headset mechanism. Makes servicing and adjusting impossible. Is this a deal breaker for you all?
Colnago is developing a new aero bike for 2025. Domen Novak spoke about it on Slovenian Val202 podcast. Imagine UAE with a proper bike .. ;)
Why’s do they need this? Not much the V series has not won at this point
I stick with rim brakes because life is easier as a home mechanic. However, this new Aeroad is definitely compelling. I also worked at bike shops and I guarantee they'll want to sell this bike over the competition because shop mechanics will have less hassle fixing them.
German here: really funny - if you take Canyon, Cube and Rose (another German based Semi-online-only Bike Brand with some flagship Stores) you have approximately 40-50% of all bikes on the Street. Giant is near to irrelevant in my perception.
“Rose” I had literally never heard of them. Looks kinda good.
Don't forget Stevens!
Highlight of my week when your new episodes drop 🎉
Pogacar put more time into Jonas on the descents. He has that punch to make the separation on the tight uphill turns but the descents are really where he got separation in GC. I think a more aero bike would 100% suit him as long as it doesn’t have too much added weight. The SL8 seems like a great middle ground like Jesse mentioned
When Primoz dropped his chain on last year Giro ITT, people were cursing SRAM like there’s no tomorrow 😂 so yeah, people do look at groupset in the tour
my LTWOO e-gr has completely died. RD electronics fried from water ingress. Replacement on the way, but I'm just like 'cmon guys, I really want you to succeed but you've got to sort this shit out'.
Also, I too have that green rapha tee and don't bother ironing it ;)
I'm planning on building out a China bike but honestly the groupset is the one thing I'll probably get from Shimano/Sram. I really don't want to deal with "mechanicals" and other issues like yours.
My fear about “unproven” Direct from China to Consumer bike parts.
The same thing happened to me with the Ltwoo-EGR, first contact with water and it stopped responding. I put it to dry, disconnect and connect and it turned on again. I read in a forum that they applied liquid electric tape on the cable connection with the derailleur, I bought one for 5 dollars and problem solved... I have washed it and put it under heavy rain and it works perfect. However, it is a terrible disappointment that they have not solved the problem that was supposed to be fixed before the official launch, I am sure that in the future I will have the same problem that TraceVelo had with the swingarm. Poor quality control and even worse communication.
@@sebastianvidalalegria6868 good to know, I'll give that a go. If it works I'll have 2 RDs so would be a win. Was yours able to charge? No light comes on when I connect charger either.
Throw it in the bin. You got scammed. Always remember, buy once, cry once. Buy nice, not twice.
Pog rode the GP5ks TT 28's on all the Mountain stages. He rode the regular Gp5tr's 30's on the flatter stages.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he uses 28's anymore ever since the new standards recommend a 4mm difference between internal rim width and tire. Enve uses 25mm hookless internal so the min they can use is 29 but Conti doesn't sell 29 or the TT tire greater than 28. So they are basically forced to switch to regular non TT 30s.
@ChrisMillerCycling Great insight! Remember that Canyon updated the Aeroad already in 2023/24 with the saddle bolt moving to the toptube, another seatpost and another screw to tighten the cockpit. With the very new version you also have no choice anymore to use another mount as Canyons very own. Thats a big disadvantage. Bizar how many many Canyon Aeroads are on sale nowadays, where owners prefer to loose 2000-3000 euros or more on a bike they bought in 2022-2023-2024 to just gonna get the newest version!!! Amazing. Last thing i will mention: who will buy for example the beautiful CFR Alpecin replica...............I do not believe young riders will. Most of them dont have money OR they get a sponsored bike. I believe that many of these CFR's go to middle aged men that dont look as sexy on a bike as MVDP certainly does. Ironically said: how sad......................... Thanks again guys for this episode.
I can’t take the background in the room changing every week! 😂 what is going on…..are you playing with us!
Going to be a few changes over the next couple of weeks while we move a few things around and find a permanent home, stick with us, I’m hoping it will be worth it in the long run.
Monsieurs Coyle et Miller, the question isn't would Pogi win on a mid-level or "slower" bike, he would regardless of the brand, the question is what group set and gearing range would he use to win? Clearly the way Pogi rides and with 165 mm cranks and at least an 11-34 cassette, you can see he "spins to win" and poor Vini is limited on his Cervelo by his 11-28 range. As always keep the content coming cant wait for ep. 100.
Chris you felt that the previous version the cockpit was not good and to much flex. try the CP0015 cockpit (pro version with 17degree angle) that is much stiffer! i rode both the CP0018 and CP0015 in 120mm version and there was a huge difference.
someone showed a vid of their test fixture with 80kg applied to the bars. That is too much flex for me.
Is the audio echoing or was it just me?
I was on my 7.5 year old Canyon aeroad today, and it's still a great bike. But I'm building my dentist as you say SL8 this time 😊
😂
I’m building my new dogma f with a complete matte carbon finish on the whole frame for my lawyer bike😊
The memory of you guys is amazing. Before the tour you were certain that the Enve Melee doesn't deserve being ridden in the tour. Then it won the gravel stage. No comment from you. And today you claim the Look to be the slowest. I wish you could hold your opinion as well as Dave holds his speed.
We said the geo of the melee would be a challenge for a pro in road races and that it is an uninspiring looking bike. 100% stand by that ...I would add the stage Turgis won was a gravel bike stage ... perfect for the Melee 😉
Nuts how the Aeroad has changed hardly at all in appearance over the past 10 years. If you go back and look at a Madone, Venge or Foil from 2014 they look super dated, but an Aeroad from 2014 looks very contemporary (outside of rim brakes). The Katyusha Aeroads from 2014 look amazing still. Weight for the 2014 Aeroad frame was 960g, curious as to what this one is.
Prior to entrance in the US market, Canyon used to be amazingly cheap. Ultimates with Ultegra and Cosmic Carbones in 50mm were $3200 USD in 2015 (4200USD adjusted for inflation), now equivalent is more like $6300 in the US.
New one is almost exactly 950-970g too…!!
They probably just had a good understanding of aerodynamics early. Laws of physics haven't changed, so once we understand aero more - in theory all frames will sort of converge on a solution that is optimally aero.
@ChrisMillerCycling as a 49 year old who came to racing at the ripe old age of 45 and is now mixing it up in the P12 fields in the US, you should absolutely race with the Conti team! Your future may not be in the World Tour, but the wisdom and experience you can share with the U23's can be invaluable to them. Plus, there is something very rewarding about being in the mix at an age where you are old enough to be everyone else's dad. I have a 20 year old son who is making a run at going pro and it is the most rewarding thing I have ever done to challenge myself to get to a fitness level to be able to race with him in the Pro, Cat 1/2 fields here in the US. I think you'd enjoy it immensely going in with a mindset of being there to serve and mentor that next generation. Plus it is inspirational for us older guys to watch other older guys still kicking ass!
Thanks for the comment man. Still have a few scares from the way our own team ended to be prepared to jump straight back in, but I love your positivity. Thanks man.
The 454 NSWs are actually really light for 60mm deep wheels. I owned a set and they come in at 1360 without valves or rim tape which is significantly lighter than the DTs (which I’ve also owned). I don’t think there’s any weight savings from the previous gen bike. You’d need to go super shallow wheels and/or 1x and/or exotic parts to get the aeroad at 6.8.
Nah he just needs to get Dura Ace or Red. The ltwoo weight is like around 105 level
@@JohnSmith-ck5qk I don't think Pog is running Ltwoo...
@@JohnSmith-ck5qkI was talking about the aeroad being 6.8
One of you guys in full Nero kit blasted past me at warp speed at Centennial Park the other day lol.
Thanks fellas. The perfect length episode for a zone 2 on the trainer.
Jesse, as a big unit how do you find the shorter cranks, feelings, would you go back to 175?
That bike looks so tiny with Coyle on it. I get that elite racers like the lower weight and twitchiness of smaller frames, but that bike must be 2 sizes smaller than factory recommended for someone of Jesse’s height and inseam.
Would be curious as to why Jesse goes so small and whether he recommends small for others.
It’s a bit of an illusion, it’s mostly the short 165mm cranks that make the bike look very small. Because the pedal stroke looks tiny
@@nerocoaching Don't think so. I recall you said you typically get a "56," which both Trek and Specialized say are sized for guys 175-180cm in height and come defaulted with 100cm stem. You're considerably taller and got a 130cm stem, if I recall. And you clearly have a very long seatpost. 1:07:08 in the vid shows you next to a normie: your chest is over your stem whereas the top of his head is over his.
Anyhow, would be an interesting podcast topic: are bike manufacturers recommending frames too large? Or is it just that elite guys like you like a smaller stack/reach, and if so, what are the considerations behind it and might they apply to non-racers too?
@@kreed4 they recommend bikes that are too big. And not by a small amount either. To use your example, a 56cm frame is gonna be several sizes too big for an average 178cm rider. I don’t know why this is for sure, but I suspect the sizing is ancient information that hasn’t been updated as frame geometry has changed. On a frame from 1980, a 56cm might be ‘medium’, I don’t know. But it isn’t now.
@@HkFinn83 thanks. Agree completely. Still curious as to how this could be, and how it holds across most brands. Would seem going smaller (or the right fit as you say) would be the default as they could point to lower weight, better handling, and perhaps marginal cost savings.
Bike brands aren’t irrational, so just has me curious as to how we got to where we are.
would like to hear how Jessy's new bike handles in a technical crit course (thorough review of LTwoo Blue, but I'd like to know how the frame handles and if it has any vertical compliance at all or if you feel all the imperfections in the road).
So the 2021 Aeroad (at least CFR) actually came in multiple iterations (had all versions of the frame).
First one - seatpost bolt at the back, without the rubber on top of the frame. Crazy creaking sounds when pedaling.
Second one - seatpost bolt still at the back, but with the infamous rubber on top of the frame (this was better but you still had to lube it once in a while + add a tape to the seatpost to avoid creaking).
And then the third one - which Canyon just replaced for me earlier in the year . It already has the seatpost bolt up front. Finally solved properly.
But generally, over the iterations it feels like the last version of 2021 Aeroad solved all its mistakes alraedy, so moving the the new one has smaller advantages. But a decent bike and kudos to canyon for keeping the pure aero bikes spirit alive.
My biggest pro for Aeroad: Those cockpit systems, the fact that you can remove the sides and pack it in bike case easily is priceless. Cannot imagine removing the whole iintegrated stem each time I fly. For me this is the single most added value thats usually underpreciated.
Biggest con: Also the cockpit system. Its amazing that you get flexibility in stack height and handlebar widht, but geez, we're all not the same size humans, at least if they'd sell (for whatever the price would be) options to replace the center T part for a longer/shorter stem.
P.S.: Had a good laugh when you mentioned the first version of the garmin mount, it really gets in your face, solved it by placing few spacers between the front bolts moutn and handlebar to tilt it downwards.
I have a 2023 Aeroad bought in June (arrived 3 weeks later) that fortunately came with the new seatpost clamp design. Couldn’t be happier with it. I nonsense easy to put together right out of the box. No issues at all in the past year. I also bought Canyon’s front headlight mount that comes with the integrated Garmin mount. My Garmin sits perfectly you horizontal and flush with the aero bar/stem. I wouldn’t swap out my current Aeroad for the new one (mostly because the seat clamp issue was already solved on mine), but I am going to look into whether I can order just the new aero drop bars for my setup.
The analysis of the upgrades on the new Canyon was really well considered . As for the groupset on Jesse’s bike - reputation for reliability and smooth gear changes trumps everything - Shimano only for me - having had a nightmare with Campagnolo EPS early on in my bike ownership
In Germany we got a Partner of Canyon (RadRace - Online Content Creator and Race/Event Organizer) that got shops in Hamburg and newly in Berlin were you can testride/borrow/fix your canyon bike and I think that is what they need in every market. It solves so much of the problems/bias people have towards canyon.
the majority of the aero gains are by tweaking rider position so you're absolutely right, it should come with the fastest setup.
The ability to put an aerobar on the bike might be looking forward to the possibility of one bike races.
It’s also a great option for Ultra cycling.
Thoroughly enjoyed this weeks episode, best one in a long while!
Glad you enjoyed it!
i agree that you two joining a conti team and focusing the content on yourselves wouldn't add much to the show, but i think there could be a lot there if you start telling the stories / getting the perspectives of the guys you're racing with
I would say Scott foil with same setup will make Tadej so much faster. Scott foil is the lightest and most aero bike. 🤷🏻
Funny how Chris predicted the issue with the Chinese shifters in previous podcasts before the Jessy made order. He literally said “is not reliable and you will have some quirks with it” , here we are now. Back to Shimano.
Beta testing groupsets … it’s fine for someone with time to waste riding around for the fun of it. But when time is crunched, it’s just not acceptable. It’s such a pity and a missed opportunity for L-twoo.
Give the updated one a go!!! What if it’s fine and you write it off now. I have the gravel groupset and I haven’t had any issues with mine yet
Canyon just came out with fidlock aero bottles. They are made specifically for the aeroad and speedmax. I already ordered them. They will be the aero bottles everyone will get once we people find out about them😂
I have fidlock non-aero bottles and they suck in every situation except when they're not on the bike
I have the "og" aeroad slx with the rubber grommet around the seatpost and never had any issues with it. No creaking, no wearmarks, no slip, no need to apply grease/tape/anything.
To me the "issue" with the older style seatpost has been blown out of proportion
That Dare was seriously cool looking and the front end looked so fast with the deepest headtube in the peloton , since they took advantage of a recent UCI rule change
Does not matter if it's good or not if Tadej pogačar rides it we love it. Enve are loving him.
Canyon figured out the integrated bar/stem crux I thought. Giant, Cannondale and Trek engineers are nowhere near figuring that out at the moment.
But they can't figure out how to keep them in stock or give you more than 2cm of stack adjustability
@@stadefast I'm 18 months into trying to get a CP0018 with a longer stem lmao
@@stadefast yeah but that is not R&D and Engineering related shortcomings you are talking about.
@@Ghost12561 I would assume the lack of stack height adjustability is an engineering shortcoming. Why would that be a product decision?
Totally agree on the bike should shop with the narrower aero bars. Screwing us by making buy separate and chuck the normal bars in landfill.
I’ve always been a trek guy but the latest Madone was disappointing in that it looks like a climbing bike but somehow weighs the same as an aero bike so I just bought the new aeroad. They’ve definitely ticked all the boxes for what I’m looking for in a fast aero aggressive bike with this new release. one of the things that was holding me back in the past was the difficulty to swap stem lengths which is now no problem. And I really like the ability to change bar styles and widths on the fly without having to rebleed brakes depending on what I’m doing.
@bzzles how do you swap the stem???
Canyon says they don't sell alternative handlebar-stems! At least in North America
@@craigferguson5976 I’m in North America and it’s available right on their website under pace t bar. Sizes range from 70-140mm.
Join the conti team .... it would be great 👍
Problem with the wedge method on the Aeroad as a seat clamp is the seat post is always going to be levering it out. Hence, the post is going to slip and even more likely with more seat post exposed.
I think the S-Works venge had this problem...
Maybe this seat post wedge was to please MVDP?
Honestly, if it was done right (Not 100% sure that would be) I'm feeling like Conti Team experiences would really blow the channel up ( In a good way).
Brakes are highly dependent on how well the bleed was done - any air bubbles will hurt a lot, I think the LTWOO has a grub screw that can push the fluid a bit - what pads you've got, and what rotors you've got. So it's definitely something you can improve without chucking out the rest of the groupset. Being equivalent to carbon rim brakes is a clue to me that something there isn't quite right.
I am an aircraft mechanic, and I hate Torx screws. But they did say in the marketing that they made custom T-25 screws that are deeper to help prevent stripping of screws.
Yeah my understanding is the entire purpose is to prevent stripping. If we just have decent screws and good tools though...
Yes, they are deeper.
T25 is shite idc how deep the hardware is
The Torx in dogma f seatpost bolts strip way easy, all other hex bolts have never stripped before
So, yet another proprietary part. Awesome x.x
When you guys were talking about the disc brake differences and how good Shimano's performance is I was a bit confused. I went to California last November and was descending down Mulholland from the top to the Coast and I almost shitted myself a couple of times because my brakes were fading and feeling like I was going to lose my brakes, and the grinding feeling like they were full of dust or sand, it was outright scary and forced me to go slow. Way slower than I'm capable of going. The rotors are fairly new and the pads the same, I never get squealing or rub so they work good for the most part, but I feel when I needed them the most they did not inspire any confidence at all. I've never had good rim brakes act like that. I live and ride in the mountainous region of the North Eastern US and ride descends all day but I don't have to use my brakes as long and I know the roads better so I know what to expect. In California if you misjudge or make a mistake you're going off a cliff and possibly to your death. I think I would rather have rim brakes the next time I ride in California.
Things i'd like Canyon to change, pressfit 86 (why in heavens name)? Or rather, they should have changed to BB386 or T47.
For those that don't understand, a bearing with 41mm OD instead of 42mm is less durable. Races are narrower as balls are smaller.
Client option of handlebar combo reach. Client option to chose crankarm length. As these two aren't optional, it means you have to buy new at the side (add cost).
100% agree with testing disc brakes down around berry. I feel unbelievably safer descending berry and jamberoo mountain now. It’s actually super fun. Imagine if they resurface berry mountain one day, it will be epic
You can't request canyon to do anything, you have to buy them and do it yourself.. but the speedmax cfr i think they can customize, according to that lionel sanders hq visit. The Defy would really live up to it's name if pog won on it 😅
I totally agree with Chris. The Propel looks better than the Aeroad. The gap between the front tire and down tube, it really icks the heck out of me.
Propel is super ugly. The Areroad is a 10 year old design (10 year old gen2 aeroad looks 99% same as 4th gen), but still up to date,
The Colnago is "not that good of a bike"
...Neither of these boys have ridden it clearly.
Pretty sure that v4rs >> aeroad ~ tavelo 😂
Commenting early but very excited to hear Jesse's thoughts on the ChinaBike since I'm considering building up one myself.
The audio is a bit distracting on this one, some delay / pick up on the mic?
Doran’s Mobile Bike Repair here:
T25 is okay, anything smaller and give me a hex Allen key.
You are correct, you do need a high end Torx driver, otherwise they break. A low end small hex Allen key will be more durable .
I love the simplicity of nearly only one tool needed. If only their engineers could have figured out how to do the water bottle cage bolts with it too!!! Lol❤❤❤❤
Cant wait for Hambini to roast the new Cervelon😂
The button never returned to its original position hence the last shift cycle was never completed at the shifter, even though the derailleur did shift. Once you push it again and no shift occurs, the shifters probably returns all the way back out, hence shift cycle is now completed and its will shift properly the next attempt. Sorry if I’m not explaining it properly 😢
Next time i learn something here would be first time. These 2 are like 2 uncles who get into it and don't wanna leave the family gathering , when Sram won last year and Visma gone 1x was the talk of town, Shimano was all over the news losing teams and dominance, now Shimano is back on top but there is no news for this show. Tadej's bike is a mix of many components, mostly not seen on many other teams , what makes him fast is his cycling IQ, conditioning and riding position
Proprietary aero parts peeve me every time I see them
still need to apply proper torque on the T25 bolts, which the tool doesn't provide.
Good to hear the speed test results of the Arow vs TCR. Yeah about 10 watts is what you should expect, so it is good to hear
Here in Korea, Canyon actually has a display shop where you can see / touch / pick up the bike. You still need to have to buy online. I wonder if they do that on other countries too
What a fantastically enjoyable episode. Thanks again lads
Wh even bother with a chinese groupset if 105 is the same price or cheaper? A complete groupset with a crank is sometimes on sale for 850€ at R2-bike
Yeah, they always compare full kids to half-kids. Sure they are cheaper then.
Hi Chris, love the show. I am buying a new bike by the end of the year. I ride terrain well known to you up around The Sally Gap in Wicklow, Ireland. I live in Greystones and usually go up
Past Lugala, on to the gap, down into Laragh and maybe Rathdrum on the way back. In your opinion what is the best type of bike for this terrain. I have a Bianchi Infinito CV Ultegra mechanical (2020) right now. I am a big guy. 105kg, 6’3”. I am not a racer, but enjoy fast descents. I climb slowly unsurprisingly. Anyway 2 questions really. What is the best type of bike in general for this terrain and secondly given my size and type of riding, what’s likely best for me. Budget wise. Mid to high end. Thanks a mill!
Torx head are much better for driving screws and putting on torque without stripping out if you can get the bit straight. Allen keys have the benefit of running a ball end, and that works great for bikes when you can't get the wrench in dead straight and you need to go at a slight angle. In both cases you need quality fitting wrenches. Otherwise you'll strip out either one. Lastly, torx is probably unnecessary for bikes because you're not putting that much torque on the bolt. Everything's done at 5 nm, minus a crank bolt give or take. Allen keys are just fine.
Really like the china build review and the look of the tavelo, but I would like a less loud frame color myself.
I just got my new Aeroad today, holy crap this is a cool bike.
I'm very interested in what cervelo has planned for the future S5 release. Have the manufacturers hit a plato?
Your spelling has
I can say i haven't been a fan of Canyon, as they have not been doing any real changes since gen1(apart from rim to disc). This is the first time I've seen genuine positive changes. Kudos!
I'm on the original er9 and I have a flawlessly working groupset. But make no mistake: IMO this is NOT on a level with Simano and Sram. It's okay for the money but I too find the RD shifting speed too slow for my liking. It just feels somewhat laggy. I also don't like the overshifting feature of the RD as it makes shifting to bigger cogs noisy. I'm using Formula rotors and Campagnolo calipers bc I don't like how the LTWOO gen1 calipers look. It works great but it's also not mindblowing. I'm a tinkerer, so I'm ok with it. But this is far from a perfect product. So if you want a safe bet, look elsewhere.
Would love to see Colnago bring a new race bike out for next year. Tour magazine even tests put V4RS at just over 220W.
Apparently in Europe the mid range Aeroad prices have increased by about £1k. I think the pro purple / green oil slick colour is amazing, but I do agree that their bikes have always lacked a bit of soul.
It's appalling that you can't choose your stem length and they don't make the bars available for purchase separately
I could be wrong, but aren’t all the aero gains made in the new Aeroad because of the handlebar. I forget which video it was but they spoke about the whole bike being X watts faster (I believe 14w) but then later in the video spoke about the aero bars at 35cm being X watts faster. Fair play to them, that’s what specialized did with the SL8
20w at 45km/h is equivalent to about 4w at 22km/h. So yeah, aero is still having an advantage, but you have to consider that Tadej's V4RS is rarely ever seeing 45km/h of headwind. He's usually in a draft, and when he's not on a wheel he's climbing at a much slower speed.
I feel the problem with Ltwoo for you guys is you are both used to groupsets that cost more than 2000$. If someone coming off a tiagra tries this will probably feel they are great…
Jesse, use the iron!😂
I had to scroll way to far to find this comment!
@@michaelnormandeau2655 😅
Just get Ltwoo to send you the updated version of the shifters.
The breaking issue could be cos the pads are not fully bed in. It can take some time for optimum performance.
Im a mechanic, and I agree with you lads. Hex > TX. Any day of the week.
Canyon are well enough established now that if you’re into bikes or have friends that ride, you don’t need to see it in person to know it’s going to be great. Maybe someone completely new to it might feel safer buying from a bike shop but that’s pretty dated now too. Maybe it’s a Victorian and NSW thing. Plenty of Canyons in Melbourne areas.
Join the Team!!!
I really want JC to do this!
Trek aero bottles with bold Trek branding could be a thing on a Specialized. :)
It should come with the aero handelbars on the new bike, but for us that have an older model its super to give us the option to buy it :)
33:05 100% correct. Here in Germany, there are at least two aeroads per group ride minimum
Those proprietary Aeroad cockpits are a no go, and that bar with the mount system is kinda ugly too. I think it would look better if the fork was deeper too
Can you guys mention on a episode in the future that the tour magazine rankings occur for different bikes on different wheelsets, and at different depths. Considering these factors on their own can account for 5+watt differences alone
I understand Tour magazine test with both a standard wheelset (Zipp 404), as well as the factory wheels.
They spoke to the guy from tour magazine on a previous episode.
@@gholbert Do you have a link to results with just 404 reference?...I only find the chart with mixed options (top 3 on dicut 62s)
Basically the biggest benefit of a new Chinese bike are wider tires. not worth the $ . Just buy the wheels and shorter cranks. Easy upgrade for any bike . Thank you 🙏
I never miss an episode from here in Wales