Medieval Spear Play, Part 1
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2016
- Weapon handling - How to approach the opponent safely - How to avoid double kills.
This first of two parts explains duelling tactics that are valid for any hand weapon, but become most obvious with longer ones, such as the spear.
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Recorded at a seminar on historical combat with sword & shield at the History Park Bärnau Geschichtspark/?fref=ts in July 2016. See photos here: 266934476773420/photos/?tab=album&album_id=840460772754118
and here: susan.sumer/media_set?set=a.1083615821726491.1073741910.100002342496493&type=3
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Camera: Cornelius Berthold, editing by Karen Schmidt. Special thanks to Julien Reschke for assisting in the demos. - Наука та технологія
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Swords always steal the attention, but it was the spear that did most of the fighting for thousands of years all across the globe. Simple, easy to produce yet effective.
Hell, even the samurai mainly fought with the spear, that was their weapon of choice, even though they're always associated with the katana :p
Spears and other polearms definitely need more love!
Generally yes - although when we picture historical fighting, we always think of battles, don't we? But most people who died a violent death were not slain in combat but massacred. Sadly, this was no different back then as it unfortunately still is today.
It does not really add to the reputation of the sword for being a noble weapon, but when it comes to slaughter and massacre, blades are much more handy and effective than a spear. At any rate, it is noteworthy that, before the age of firearms, whenever technology and economy allowed for it, people would pick up swords, and be it as a sidearm.
In chinese martial arts, spears steals the attention more than the swords of any kind, because it was associated with the long pike due to the introduction of western muskets during the Ming Dynasty and constant threats from northern barbarian factions. The pikes and spears are very easy to trained with it and it quickly represents the majority of the common people's defiance against foreign invaders, while swords are more difficult to use and to trained with.
My opinion on the preference of weapons for samurai in battle is the bow is first preference, and then the spear.
I consider the katana the equivalent of a pistol. Almost the last choice of a weapon. I would chose the bow, the spear, and the no-dachi over the katana for battle in that order.
During Medieval Sword was a status weapon both in Europe and Asia, sword was very expensive and it wasn't actively used in massive combat, but indicated that person bearing it is a noble or rich. However during Roman empire sword was main weapon of regular infantry and also during the Renaissance 1.5 handed swords like Bastard Sword was very useful cavalry secondary weapon.
Regarding your statement about Samurai, I'm pretty sure they used naginata, correct?
I actually know how to use a bo staff though, and I'm quite certain that you can apply bo moves to a spear.
"Bridging a longer distance always takes more time than brigding shorter distance"
THE MORE YOU KNOW
Your font leg is often straight at the knee, which is almost always at least slightly bent in most martial arts, with the usual explanation of added mobility. I do see some of the Fiore drawings with a straight front leg. Can you talk a little bit about that, what benefits it provides, and when and when not to use it?
One idea is that he wants to strike at the head, so lowering himself, the knee bending might not provide sufficient compensation for the diagonal strike, or it is now easier to block as it goes next to the opponent spear at a worse angle for the attacker. Second, I think the lowering also slightly very slightly decreases mobility with such heavy and extensive weapon, so you might be more exposed that way as a price for the extra reach. Third, I noticed the strange posture he maintains nearly all the time, so it might be either beneficial for top-down leverage in case of a hold situation, or for stability. These are all conjectures, I had the exact same reaction as you, as I just started practising the japanese naginata and we were immediately taught to increase range in a foot strike by bending the knee.
everything you are saying makes sense and this is a very good video. However while I do do believe you when you say that control of the center is very important I would like you to elaborate on that. and what exactly do you mean. (sorry I don't know much about spear combat and this would help) because from what I gathered here all the things you showed make sense to me but when in a final attack. the way I understand the center is a center position in the distance between you and him. not necessarily being squared with him looking at his center line. because if you control the canter of the distance between you and him that makes sense. but being squared with him that would not make sense especially if you would be in opposite stance than he is. so I'm assuming that by center you mean control of a position between you and him kind of like you try to control the center in a game of chess.
spears needs more love.
Absolutely.
my fav historical weapon
***** that is because blades are shiny!
Roland Warzecha Halberd are shiny too!
Ákos Kovács … only at their utmost ends. And they are impractical to bring to table.
*Video starts*
_"Okay, so now I am going to do a run-through..."_
Runs cameraman through
*Video ends*
… wait for the second - and final - part!
"Gain the center" is always the answer!
Absolutely.
if you loose the center, run for it? i probobly would
Micke just remain calm, deny it to him and regain it yourself! If you have do not know how - run!
Roland Warzecha that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard
You mean the dumbest thing you have ever *read*.
Step 1) Get a bigger stick. Step 2) Sharpen and poke.
Sometimes you can get away with that.
+Roland Warzecha The fact that you even replied to a silly comment like that made my day.
Jacob Baumfalk … so it served its purpose then! Have a great day.
+Roland Warzecha Thank you!
Philip II of Macedon reïncarnate!
In chinese martial arts, spears and staff steals the attention more than the swords of any kind, because it was associated with the long pike due to the introduction of western muskets during the Ming Dynasty and constant threats from northern barbarian factions. The pikes and spears and other polearms are very easy to trained with it and it quickly represents the majority of the common people's defiance against foreign invaders, while swords are more difficult to use and to trained with.
I do not know much about Chinese history, but this makes sense to me.
if you have he center - strike
if you do not have the center - gain the center
repeat
Its really great what you do.
Thanks a lot.
Love the clothes, sort of reminds me of some kind of rich town militia being able to afford swords.
I believe that in Italy those dyes aren't even all that rare.
Depends on which century he is reenacting. Swords became pretty cheap, enough that peasants could afford them.
Great work as always, the focus on following the blow and controlling the center is extremely important and often overlooked and fundamental to good art. It's great to see such a thorough explanation of why and how to do this properly.
Thank you very much - and, yes, I find controlling the center the key to single combat, too.
This is a wonderful video lesson. The fighters on my channel who use Staff/Spear utilize a lot of this knowledge, for the others, this will be a great video to watch and learn.
Thanks for appreciation.
Always a pleasure to watch your videos.
Always a pleasure to read your kind words.
Why would your standard posture be one with overstreched legs and such a bend at the waist?
Looks unstable, unnatural and weak to me, as opposed to standing with the knees slightly bent.
That way your center of gravity would be lower, allowing for safer stand and more ease of movement.
Indeed. Having experimented with hip-hinging for two years now, I do not lock my legs in this fashion anymore, and have come to the same conclusion.
Would the terrain affect your choice of stance?
I can see some advantages of the hip-hinging in a muddy, or other type of terrain where foot movement or mobility is impeded.
The bent-knee stance seems more useful where your foot movement in unobstructed.
Also something just popped into mind. Not sure why.
American baseball players will sometimes lock the front leg when hitting the baseball. It gives a similar posture to the hip-hinging. I heard it explained that the locked leg gives power through the front lead locked hip joint to the rear opposite side which is hitting the ball.
Love the scenery & rain
Excellent video. I can now see the concept of 'controlling the center' being used in other martial arts and weapons of other sizes. I'm looking forward to using the concept in other situations.
You mention of an action in two parts but one tempo was an epiphany.
Thanks for the martial arts education.
Excellent. I am delighted you found in useful.
Good video, one of the best till yet, what i could watch!
Great stuff as always.
Thank you.
Awesome as usual.
Thank you.
Thank you for the video, sir. Was very interesting.
You are most welcome.
It is a great idea to use different weapons to show different aspects of the same thing, fencing. The spear show in the video a bigger draw of the angles and positions, it is easier to see. And your hands, wide separated to hold the spear, force you to correct or see the position of the rest of your body.
Nice.
It is indeed very helpful - and, unlike with swords, the strong guys have problems making up for faulty technique with strength due to the clear leverage. Plus, students do not get lost regarding fine motor skills so easily. So it is very educational from the very beginning.
Here we are, watching over the internet, a video delivered over gasps of distance a signal that is a high-quality video-stream of a modern man presenting medieval technology of a long stick with a pointy end, and how to skewer other people in it. ... Hmm... makes you think
The reason the spear is a slower weapon is more related to its higher moment of inertia, and only indirectly due to the distance it covers. That is because longer weapons tend to have higher inertias, but not necessarily.
I always like listening to your bits on fencing theory. Are you working from an particular source for this bit of spear?
You can find striking with the spear from "vom Tag" like positions in unarmoured fighting in Talhoffer's Königsegg Codex.
What I do in the video is basically an adaptation of standard German longsword play for the spear. I have nicked the idea from an article on conceptual consistency by my friend Christian Tobler in his book “In Saint George’s Name“. It says in Cod.ms.3227a, 13v: “… there is only one art of the sword, …, and it is the foundation and the core of all fighting arts.“ So I find it a legitimate and rewarding approach.
Great info. How long is the average spear? And how long is the tip/bladed portion? Thanks.
Excellent Roland! G'day from The Stoccata School of Defence in Australia. :)
My best regards to my brothers in arms on the other side of the planet!
That's not rain. That's the tears of his enemies.
Brilliant!
Oh, thank you very much.
Hi Roland! Would you show us how to fight with spear and viking shield? Do you know any useful tricks to train in a group (shield wall or something)?
I am sorry. My focus is sword & shield in single combat.
Not a lot of people go over spear and shield sadly. I've done a few videos on it, ThegnThrand has a few, "Tim is Green" has some decent ones, but otherwise not nearly enough people go over it.
In a group your spacing is what controls how you use the spear. A tight wall makes it extremely difficult to use the underarm grip but one with at least elbow's distance (which you should always strive for regardless, less than that makes it difficult to use any weapon) permits underarm usage. If your line has a lot of spears you can use the extra reach to control the distance and keep the enemy back, but if they don't overarm is more useful. If the enemy has polearms you can use your reach to take them out of the fight (spear and shield is the bane of two-handers).
Main thing for single combat is to not hang your point out like many do (Scholagladitoria and Skallagrim have sparring videos using spear and shield and they both are guilty of this). That lets the enemy control your point easily, which is bad. Instead you want to keep the point from going much past the forward edge of your shield and focus on counter-thrusting as they attack rather than aggressively trying for a kill (Take openings if they are given, just don't get overzealous).
très intéressant !!!
Interesting! thank you for posting this.
I puzzled about some of the mechanics :
-when you strike with out stepping, it look weird. Wouldn't switching the front legg be more mechanically sound ?
-The way your back is arched doesn't look as mechanically strong as a straight back.
Is there domething I'm missing or do not understand ?
You need a strong position as soon as you have to struggle for dominance in a bind - this is when body power actually comes into play. But the strike without stepping is also seen in historical manuals for the equivalent situation with longswords, for example in Falkner's manuscript. Switching legs at that point would be way too slow.
Leaning forward with hip hinging is absolutely historical. And, yes, one is supposed to do it with a straight back. I have a sway back and I am failing to straighten it sometimes - but I am working on it. Never-the-less, the actual forward lean has numerous geometrical advantages and is, indeed, very strong: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.269897019810499.1073741825.266934476773420/785324691601060/?type=3&theater
Thanks a lot for the informations
Jean-Louis Boudreau, you are welcome.
Moral of the story.... the bigger harder stick wins
so i have a cold steel brand boar spear, will this still apply for winger or lugged spears? especially cause the cold steel one is heafty at 5lbs
These are fundamental concepts - so they apply to anything you want to fight with.
i remember a couple of years ago i was participating in a reneactment (10-15 on each side) and we were reenacting a larger group of15 getting ambushed by 10 or so and i getting into the role started going with the buttspike for the better half of the fight until i was able to disengage and bring the point back on line
what would you have done
What you did was right. The back end of a spear is quite effective at keeping the other jerks back. A spear is just a staff with a sharp bit at one end (or both on occasion) after all, so any staff techniques you pick up can be applied to a spear all the same.
I agree +demomanchaos and I would add that the techniques that we use are similar to most in the video, but I would add as well that as I use a different type of spear(s), There are some techniques with shield and some without, which I yet have to make a video about and I will, but it take time, with many requests :P!
Your vidios are so cool and interesting!
Thank you.
Cool outfit bro, you look like an Alchemist from the Witcher 3
Gain the center (control the center) is a chess strategy!
Part 2 is coming soon?
In fact, Part 2 is already available for members of the *Legio Dimicatorum* holding the rank of *discipulus* and higher here: www.patreon.com/posts/medieval-spear-2-6536016
If you wish to join them and support my work, you are most welcome to take a look here: www.patreon.com/bePatron?patAmt=3&u=713383
War verwirrt und irgendwie auch erfreut als plötzlich mitten drin ein deutscher Satz fiel xD
When using the spear Judgement of distance is king. If using the English principles technique becomes less important than if you are using a system that is purely technique based. Being grounded is important so having no heel lifts will root you enough to gain power and remember the back hand is the engine and the front hand is the steering wheel :)
Thank you for your comment.
Judgement of distance is always king, or rather, without judgement of distance, nothing works.
Martial arts principles are universal, so if somebody acts in accordance with them all the time, he does not need technique because everything he does will automatically be true technique.
Technique is but a container to convey the principles that make it work. This is important in teaching and learning because we can learn technique more easily than abstract principles.
This being said, there are no universal martial arts, despite the undeniable existence of universal principles. This is because any martial art is embedded in a cultural and historical context, too, it is and never was about mere efficiency only, even though many appear to believe otherwise.
Finally, I can also imagine plenty of contexts and tactical situations when being firmly grounded with the soles flat on the ground is irrelevant, even detrimental to your purpose.
Roland Warzecha , as you know combat is mobile so being rooted all the time is silly, but when power is needed for the strike or thrust, it is a must. Martial arts are embedded in our martial attitudes towards violence as a species. The principles as written down by the English may be universal as an idea but the English were taught them as a viable way of use in combat.
The Original English Martial Arts Channel , excellent, thank you.
good to know
Question for you, Roland. Why were both combatants here starting with their spears backward over the shoulder? Shouldn't you be starting with the point toward your opponent? Unless the scenario involves two people strolling around with spears at port-arms and then bumping into each other unexpectedly, I'm not sure why that starting posture is advantageous. It places the only lethal zone of your weapon in a direction that requires gross movement before it can strike.
This question has occurred multiple times. If you do not mind, please refer to my according replies below.
Gefällt mir äußerst gut. Darf ich fragen wo der Verein sesshaft ist? Vielleicht habe ja Glück und es ist in meiner Nähe.
Dankesehr. Wir trainieren in Hamburg. Ist aber kein Verein, sondern eine kleine Trainingsgruppe für Fortgeschrittene. Das Video wurde während eines Wochenendseminars aufgezeichnet. Info-Pdf zum Download hier: www.patreon.com/posts/shield-classes-7155643
Vielen Dank!
Gern geschehen.
Roland Warzecha Hi, I'm a Dutch fellow who has also been wanting to attend or visit a seminar for some years and once upon a time we actually had some email contact about it. Among other things, you referred me to some Dutch reenactors, after which I gained a little bit of experience in medieval combat here, but also in experimental archaeology with groups in Scandinavia. Unfortunately at the time I lived too far away (Utrecht and Gent) and couldn't find enough time to visit Hamburg since I was taking care of sick family. Since then, I've been keeping up with most of your videos, which has in part inspired me to keep active with reenactment (not necessarily just combat) to the extent of my possibilities. Thank you very much for that! It means more than you know. Now that I live in Groningen, it has become a more realistic possibility for me to come visit, if that would be allowed. However, to speak forthrightly, I have to take into account I don't own a car, have an overly full schedule at the university/work/hospital and am dealing with some serious health issues, so it would require some time to save funds and careful planning on my part. When I can find an opportunity to come, i.e. during a weekend, may I contact you further to inquire about your activities such as possible seminars and maybe suggestions for other things for me to see while I'm there? I look forward to your response! Warner
Thanks. Regards.
Can you link the medieval illustration showing this technique? (please)
You can find striking with the spear from "vom Tag" like positions in unarmoured fighting in Talhoffer's Königsegg Codex.
What I do in the video is basically an adaptation of standard German longsword play for the spear. I have nicked the idea from an article on conceptual consistency by my friend Christian Tobler in his book “In Saint George’s Name“. It says in Cod.ms.3227a, 13v: “… there is only one art of the sword, …, and it is the foundation and the core of all fighting arts.“
Do you follow a historical source for this? and if so which one?
From an older reply in this comment section:
"You can find striking with the spear from "vom Tag" like positions in unarmoured fighting in Talhoffer's Königsegg Codex.
What I do in the video is basically an adaptation of standard German longsword play for the spear. I have nicked the idea from an article on conceptual consistency by my friend Christian Tobler in his book “In Saint George’s Name“. It says in Cod.ms.3227a, 13v: “… there is only one art of the sword, …, and it is the foundation and the core of all fighting arts.“ So I find it a legitimate and rewarding approach."
So basically you need to bridge the distance?
Controlling the center is also the main strategy of chess.
Honestly not sure I understand. Is the idea to get to the next move first? I mean, if you don't get the center from the onset of a fight, are you dead, or is it a battle through each attack?
The principle is simple: He who has gained the center can safely land a hit (not risking a double hit at all). In turn, he who realizes that he is in the process of losing the center has to instantly take measures to deny the center to his adversary, and next attempt to win the center himself. How to do this is what the vast majority of technique from the historical combat manuals is about. The struggle for dominance of the center is indeed the essence of fencing.
However, once the center is lost for good, the fight is lost, too. This is because if the opponent has successfully gained control of the center, he controls you. Or in other words: Any counter has to take place before the opponent's technique is concluded, that is within the same tempo, or in late medieval German phrasing "indes", that is "meanwhile".
So kind of like with dancing, one leads and one follows. In a fight, you want to be the leader, and if you end up as follower, you want to find a way to become leader.
Wonderfully phrased. I am going to nick this analogy!
Thanks for explaining that. Your filthy fingers can stay on my analogy. ;)
Thanks. Who told you about my fingers, though?
Where can you purchase traditional clothing like this?
Wulflund.com
www.medieval-market.com
Is there any good reading material about spear usage? I've always liked the spear best.
As for original source material, there are numerous plays for armoured single combat that involve spears. Talhoffer also shows some in his Königsegger Codex, and I have seen according passages from Italian manuscripts, too, but I am not familiar with them. There are also various original sources that cover staff fighting.
I recommend looking here: wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Staff_Weapons
When you have found something that is appealing, track down those authors and instructors who work with the according source and weapon.
The spear is but a side interest of mine, so this is the best advice I can give you right now. Hope this helps.
Thank you!
Jeremiah Sprague you are most welcome.
Love your hood where do I get one?
I made it myself: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.445842678882598.1073741902.266934476773420/755599107906952/?type=3&theater
Very authentic, I like it!
Pikes are elite sticks
very nice video
i just have one question, though. in a large battle with a row of soldiers with polearms, how much would change from this? The rank behind the front would have to stand very far behind if a polearm were to be used like this in a group, but I can't imagine that being very practical.
I have little to say about battles, my expertise is with duelling, and here the geometry of a fight is very different.
I'm no expert, but I suspect that in infantry battles, the other ranks would stand well behind each armies front ranks when engaged in battle. Basically the historical accounts of many battles describe a continuous cycle of the front ranks moving forward to engage, then disengaging, fresh troops being cycled to the front, then an extended period of waiting for one side to psych themselves up enough to move in for another attack. Rinse and repeat until one side routs. This is apparently why the typical battle would last for an entire day, and why cavalry and flanking was very valuable for ending battles quickly.
Personally, I don't think that it would be very practical to have the second rank stand so close behind the front during a fight. Unless the second rank is carrying much longer weapons, they would simply have no reach to do anything. And I'm not sure if I would like the idea of some guy behind me waving spear around my head whilst I'm trying to fight the guy in front of me.
If I had to guess though, I'd say a dense formation of spears might have been an effective psychological weapon. If a wall of spears could scare off cavalry without a problem, I can imagine a macedonian phalanx doing the same to regular soldiers.
Roland Warzecha i see. thanks for the response though
Mister Sharpe thanks. if it's not too much to ask, do you have any books or articles I could read to learn more about historical battles?
***** you are welcome.
Mister Sharpe I would very much appreciate to learn which historical sources describe this revolving rank system that you mention.
By controlling the center, you mean the range between you and the opponent, not the center/torso of the opponent's mass, correct? Just making sure.
Principle stands for all types of striking, I believe.
Yes, exactly.
Thanks for replying. Great videos.
Peter Prochilo, you are welcome - and I am glad you enjoy the videos.
are you left handed? im far from an expert at spear fighting but intuitively i'd hold the spear in the other hand (having the left hand stretched out before the right hand)
No, I am right-handed. Two-handed strikes for a right hander are generally done with the right on top of the left, regardless of weapon. But of course one changes grip if required, like in all armed martial arts.
those stances!
Hey Roland Where do i buy such spear head and which wood for handle? thanks!
My spear shafts are of ash wood. The spear head was made by some supplier from the Czech republic, but a friend of mine purchased it for me, so I cannot tell you right now. I will let you know when I manage to find out.
The engraved Viking spear head that Julien is using was custom made for me some 20 years ago. Cannot remember the actual maker. Shaft is ash, too.
Thank you for your quick answer!
VikingFromHalland, you are welcome.
love the fact its pissing it down,
I like the hood, very Book of the Hunt.
How would someone get involved in this type of thing?
You are most welcome to join up-coming classes. Find an info PDF here: www.patreon.com/posts/shield-classes-7155643
hmmmm the straight knee in the positions seems a bit awkward to me.
from the point of kobudo etc a straight joint like a streched straight knee is very voulnerable and unfavourable, due to a lack of flex and spring in movement.
This depends on situation, plus, there is a difference between a locked knee and a rather straight leg. There is some variance in period depictions, but you see straight legs repeatedly in period art: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.269897019810499.1073741825.266934476773420/434252076708325/?type=3&theater
I have not yet encountered any disadvantages ever since I introduced hip-hinging in my fighting, much on the contrary: The lower openings are even harder to reach for the opponent while at the same time my range increases. So I'd say the proof is in the pudding!
Where are you located? I WANT TO LIVE IN A MIDIEVIL VILLAGE!
What manual is this from?
You can find striking with the spear from "vom Tag" like positions in unarmoured fighting in Talhoffer's Königsegg Codex.
What I do in the video is basically an adaptation of standard German longsword play for the spear. I have nicked the idea from an article on conceptual consistency by my friend Christian Tobler in his book “In Saint George’s Name“. It says in Cod.ms.3227a, 13v: “… there is only one art of the sword, …, and it is the foundation and the core of all fighting arts.“ So I find it a legitimate and rewarding approach.
Me and my brother start practising with spear,but without the top part.
Excellent. Good luck.
Can you make a tutorial :) like technique ?
Thanks.
You could start of by refering to part 2 of this video: ua-cam.com/video/vAxDqM8Qfz8/v-deo.html
Thanks :)
What source is this from?
You can find striking with the spear from "vom Tag" like positions in unarmoured spear play in Talhoffer's Königsegg Codex.
What I do in the video is basically an adaptation of standard German longsword play for the spear. I have nicked the idea from an article on conceptual consistency by my friend Christian Tobler in his book “In Saint George’s Name“. As you may well know, it says in Cod.ms. 3227a, 13v: “… there is only one art of the sword, …, and it is the foundation and the core of all fighting arts.“
To make spears REAAALLY overpowered; combine with shield
Depends on context of action and length of spear.
yeahhh spearsss
I love how you're like, the only HEMA guy who can get away with historical clothing, lol. Everyone else gets shit for it these days, but you own it.
+Mike Wazofski Can't say the whole community does, but there's a definite divide between some folks who use period clothing and some who use modern fencing gear. For instance, I went to one tournament that had a "No LARPing" sign that depicted a pair of steel gauntlets.
+Mike Wazofski Yeah it can become that. There's an underlying attitude in a lot of HEMA circles that people who also reenact are not as serious about it, or are otherwise holding he art back from revival. But Roland is well respected even among those people, hence my original comment.
I think wearing historical costume when training historical technique is very appropriate and extremely informative. That is why I do it.
ThuleanPerspective … flattering my vanity!
Hey Roland Warzecha. I hope you don't mind me asking a question.
It's a bit out of the ordinary. I came across a weapons requirement of an area around Bremen, Germany, that mentions throwing axes as part of the needed weapon set from the levy. Problem is that it's in 1390, which means it's 650-900 years after the Francisca period. To me, it seems a bit out of place. I think it's in Middle Low German, you'll see "worpbarden". As in wurf + barte. I'm hope this is just some misunderstanding on my part. Almost at the bottom of page 161: brema.suub.uni-bremen.de/content/pageview/26527 Are you familiar with throwing axes in this period and area?
I'm sorry. I'm not really sure who to ask. :S
I will take a look.
Thank you.
Roland Warzecha Hi. Not sure if you have any further thoughts or information, but I'd thought I give an update in case you're interested. Two points, it might be dutch and I also found the word in a similar text in close proximity to Bremen. It's not sufficient to come to a conclusion, but it's a start I guess.
It seems like the text might have been Middle Low German, but I've also gotten some indication that it's more closely linked to Dutch, Middle Dutch vocabulary. (1)
A quote from another source (2), translated in 1834, describe another weapons requirement 1425 for the citizens of Groning as follows:
De wapenen waren zwaarden, lange messen, rustings, jentzen, baselers, beslagene kolven, harnassen, bogen, armborden en werpbaarden (bijlen)
Translation: the weapons were swords, long knives, armour, jentzen(?), baselers(?), beslagene kolven (probably clubs covered with spikes or metal plating), suits of armour, bows, armborden (probably shields or bucklers) and werpbaarden (axes).
Anyway, have a nice day.
(1) www.wnt.inl.nl/iWDB/search?wdb=MNW&actie=article&uitvoer=HTML&id=72599
(2) books.google.nl/books?id=WDMVAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA385&lpg=PA385&dq=werpbaard&source=bl&ots=mfiujc3-a9&sig=X5_8Bz2Oa2lYx6mEu5ORo0HuwhI&hl=nl&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwi6r7zEhOXOAhXnCMAKHV0SB7cQ6AEIJDAC#v=onepage&q=werpbaard&f=false
Wille k "baselers" are probably basilards, a form of dagger. "armborden" might be a corruption of the German "Armbrust" which is crossbow.
Roland Warzecha Ok thanks. In Norway we say Armbrøst and it wouldn't be out of place to suggest that, given the context.
So, latest suggestion is that it's a "hurlbat". A type of throwing axe from the 14th-16th century, completely made of steel with a cross like shape. My friend included some images from museums and quotes from historians I've heard of before. I'm not going to be able to continue further, so I'll leave the matter here in case it's of interest.
www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?738173-Medieval-weapons-requirement-for-Bremen-1390-Padded-jack-an-iron-hat-a-pair-of-gauntlets-a-shield-throwing-axe-and-a-4-5-m-long-pike-Throwing-axe-This-is-strange&p=15103375&viewfull=1#post15103375
The stance looks weak.
You're right. Maybe it's the straight legs? It looks like they are not ready to spring and deliver power
It seems like you are trying to cut with the spear by swinging it around like that. Wouldnt it make more sense to "use the pointy end" and thrust. Choking up and down on the spear as needed for range and riposting against any deflects.
As you can see, each conclusion of technique is indeed a thrust. The reason for not entering with a thrust is that it is very easy to put it aside.
This guy sounds exactly like Unfreth from Beowulf (2007).
Oh my... One hit guy...
AND, before you even think of your theories, you're dead ;)
Why wont you just hold the spear's spike forward from the first place?
A fully extended spear can easily be displaced, does not offer any cover and has no power in binding. However, you may be able to make use of the benefits of striking on entry using other guards, too. This is but one example from historical treatises. Find more elaborate explanations in the comment section. Yours is quite a common question.
Roland Warzecha yes i think you are right that a spear can be indeed easily pushed aside in a dual . But in real battle when you got pikes unit or flanx unit . You may distract one spear but you will get stabbed by another one really quickly
The video covers dueling (one-on-one combat) however. Fighting in a formation is a different topic.
What is the purpose of this stance you are using?
I think he is trying to stand balanced and keep his center of gravity as low as possible. Most of the power will now also be generated by the hip and leg muscles as opposed to the upper body, which is putting more force behind your strikes/stabs while reducing the strain on the body by "splitting up the work" so to speak^^.
But im just theorising here.
Read more about this distinct forward leaning posture, seen in many medieval depictions, here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.269897019810499.1073741825.266934476773420/834217443378451/?type=3&theater
See it in sword-fighting here:
facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.269897019810499.1073741825.266934476773420/854341041366091/?type=3&theater
Also, take a look here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.326095754190625.1073741858.266934476773420/848719518594910/?type=3&theater
If you google "hip-hinging", you will find a multitude of videos and articles.
Thanks.
Darkninja San you are welcome.
why do present the butt end first?
This is a legitimate question and it was asked repeatedly here. You may want to browse previous comments I replied to to find an answer. Thank you.
why not leave the point forward??
Leave it forward at which point exactly? On entry?
yes
Buk Lau, there are plays where you enter with the point extended, but, like in sword-fighting, it is very easy to set aside a weapon that is extended forward. The thrust is the fastest and most direct attack, but also the easiest to deal with, as it is so weak if intercepted laterally. So as this video is mainly to explain the fundamental tactics of gaining the center, I chose a play that starts with both fighters entering with a blow.
i see. but the point i was making with the chinese spears was how they elaborate on techniques that keep the point forward, rather than somewhat avoiding keeping the point forward.
Buk Lau well, first of, we are by no means avoiding to bring the point forward. It is where it should be in the appropriate distance.
This being said, you can of course start in a ward with the point forward. Like in sword-fghting, there are numerous guards. But my video is meant to explain fundamental aspects of tactics and fight geometry and tempo rather than giving an exhaustive overview of unarmoured duelling with spears.
Hope that clarifies it.
Wait a minute... Why are you doing these big strikes with a spear? I don't find it necessary at all, isn't it much easier to just hold it in front of you from the very beginning?
What you suggest would equate to longpoint in single combat with swords. You can, of course do it with either weapon but it is very easy to bind against an extended weapon and instantly seize control. Thus I.33's author calls entering with longpoint "common and not particularly advantageous" - for exactly this reason. This may become clearer when you see the actual techniques evolve in the second part, but at any rate, you can hardly win the center with an extended weapon - and these tactics, namely gaining the center, is what the video is about. Note also that this is duelling. Different rules apply to formation fights, because geometry would be different.
Why does so much of liechtenauer's longsword seem to start from vom tag, or so much of kenjutsu start with the katana held in the same way? If it was so "obvious" that you should just hold your weapon in front of you, the preferred guard to enter measure with would be pflug, but evidently this is not the case. Why does the jue de la hache never start with the tip pointed at the enemy. Why do all the bayonet drills start with the bayonet pointed at the sky rather than directly at the enemy? Etc etc.
Almost every verifiable weapon art does not start in a guard or stance where the weapon's point is directly in line with the enemy. Spanish rapier is about the only exception I can think of, but that is also a very unique system featuring very specific footwork for a very specific weapon.
One might add, though, that entering under cover and positioning the weapon in an appropriate fashion to claim the center is what it ultimately is about. You could do this without striking from a classic guard - just put your weapon where you need it, ready to deal with whatever you might encounter. Half-Shield does that in I.33, for instance.
But I prefer to teach it the way I do in the video before I start addressing this.
The other thing to note regarding point-back guards (like Von Tag) vs point forward guards (like Pflug or Ochs) is that they both exist in spear-fighting systems.
You can also start in Ochs with your spear held over your head, point facing your opponent. You would then attack by taking a gather step (out to the side with your back foot, then forward with your front foot), rotating the weapon into Pflug to gain the center on the first step and then thrusting into your opponent on the second step.
This kind of start is better for armoured combat, since it keeps the point on line the whole time, and it requires less space. However, compared to the way Roland does it, you give your opponent a lot more warning that you're coming to stab them. So, they will probably block the attack somehow, and you'll probably have to do something else. If you really like using the spear as a wrestling aid, then that's not a problem. But if you want to surprise your opponent by plugging them in the face at a distance where they thought they were safe, it's better to start in Von Tag like Roland does. It's also easier to learn; there's something about the gather step from Ochs that makes novice brains turn to mush.
Of course there is also a way to start from ochs and get even more range than Roland does from Von Tag, but the trade off is that it's a more complex action that is also weaker at the bind.
Medieval spear fencing is like any martial art in that every move is good in some circumstances and bad in others. You should learn all the moves and use the one most appropriate for your circumstances.
Roland Warzecha Thanks a lot for the answers! This makes a lot more sense now.
Why were they using Spears like halberds/poleaxes
Because it is suggested in Talhoffer's 15th century Königsegg Codex in his section on duelling with spears.
Roland Warzecha well that explains it
Hey Krieger, es regnet. Zeit in die Hütte zu gehen.
kinda complicated video for a very simple weapon: thrust with the sharp point. get out of the enemy´s reach and you´ll be safe.
But the other guy is also using a spear
he would have the same reach as you have
the video covers trying to avoid "double kills"
Spear is a thrusting weapon why in the heck do they try to hit each other like this?
Look closely, we are not trying to hit each other with a blow. The rest is explained in the video in detail.
Is this based on a specific text?
You can find striking with the spear from "vom Tag" like positions in unarmoured fighting in Talhoffer's Königsegg Codex.
What I do in the video is basically an adaptation of a German longsword play for the spear. I have nicked the idea from an article on conceptual consistency by my friend Christian Tobler in his book “In Saint George’s Name“. It says in Cod.ms.3227a, 13v: “… there is only one art of the sword, …, and it is the foundation and the core of all fighting arts.“ So I find it a legitimate and rewarding approach.
Thanks for the answer, very interesting. Keep up the good work!
You are welcome.
Мне на превьюшке померещилась бабка с копьём - только поэтому я здесь.
Why not spear and shield ?
Because this part of the class was intended to teach principles of binding which were later practiced with swords.
Roland Warzecha
oh that's pretty clever
if I have a long stick that I want to Stick into you, and you hold your Spear in the middle, point facing back, and try to hit me not using the only advantage a Spear gives you (reach) .
Id just Stab you Holding my Spear at the end
This is exactly what you should do if you are in range.
I'd throw the fucking spear at him, and follow through dagger drawn, but I am a dirty combatant.
Another opinion on the efficiency of throwing your weapon. ua-cam.com/video/4GoQlvc_H3s/v-deo.htmlm
The thing I don't understand is how he arcs his back
I'm not an expert on spear fighting by any means,but that stance looks very uncomfortable and,to be honest,not very practical
You may want to look into hip-hinging. These mechanics are apparent in many medieval images, too.
Very nice weapon to thrust through gangsters throats. I'm practicing
Ok now i don't agree with one thing he said there, the objective is not to control the center,the objective is to make your enemy lose the center, for example, if you simulate an attack and your enemy commits to an attack , you can easily feint and move diagonally to the flank and strike a killing blow, you never even committed to controlling the center, you just exploited the fact that your enemy tried to gain the center ,but he lost his life doing so. Don't commit to nothing, be like water,make your enemy flinch or commit to attack and adapt to his movements. The technique i just described is used by the greatest martial artists in our time, boxers,mma champions, etc, it was made popular by Bruce Lee himself. Its called indirect counter if im not mistaken. It starts with a simulation, then when your enemy commits, you counter, if done perfectly you dont even need to dodge. If you can make your enemy flinch, you have already won.- Miyamoto Musashi.
What you are suggesting is still in line with what I try to convey here, because outflanking changes the geometry and you move the center. As you strike, you are controlling this new center.
Good point. Thanks for answering.
You are welcome.
I'm sorry but if a spear user came at me with overhead swings they wouldn't last long. Why would you not just open the fight with the spear pointing toward your opponent, you know the pointy end.
I feel like practitioners of combative arts take the illustrations far too literally.
To have a point online is only useful when in reach to safely land a hit. This is what is being done here. Keeping the point online out of distance makes it difficult to gain control of the opposing weapon. Likewise, it is quite easy to control an extended pole arm if your own weapon is held at an angle
Your criticism apparently ignores measure and tempo. Two things you can learn a lot about if you care to study the sources.
You know you're a savage when you're wearing the pelt of that footstool from Beauty & the Beast....
Somehow it makes me sick that the end of the spear is on the left side. It seems unnatural.
Well, if it makes you feel sick (which I feel sorry for), then refrain from looking at historical sources like this one here: wiktenauer.com/wiki/Hans_Talhoffer/K%C3%B6nigsegg#/media/File:Ms.XIX.17-3_46r.png
If you were using a spear during Medieval times you probably also had shield and since most people are right handed the spear would be on the right hand, if you look on the phalanxes of Philip of Macedon you can see that it would be on the right side.
Yes, but this is a specific context of action and my video covers duelling with the spear as shown in late medieval treatises. The demonstration is designed to explain tactical concepts of single combat, as I repeatedly explained in the comments below.
Jafar from Afar
I hate to correct you, but...
*Ahem*
Phalanges is the correct plural term for phalanx.
Even in your example the guy on the right has his right hand at the base of the spear.
Why is he wearing a curtain on his head? Is this suppose to be a Gugel?
why do you lock your knees and stick your ass out? looks very awkwards
I have optimized my posture by now, less stiff-legged now. At any rate, there tons of videos on hip-hinging online. Learn more on historical application here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.269897019810499.1073741825.266934476773420/834217443378451/?type=3&theater
thanks, i sure will.