Thank you to Mr Happy for joining us on on the Podcast Monday! ua-cam.com/video/izwlbAd7xQU/v-deo.html Please go give his video its own like, view and subscribe! ua-cam.com/video/kOWRkR66yM8/v-deo.html
I think you should be proud of yourselves. You went in less geared and with strangers who you don't know how much hard content experience they have. It's the true PF experience! For icicle several strats may work, fixed bridges I think work best, but an issue I was still having when I did this fight (and that includes me messing this up) is how fast the first tethers are being crossed (it's going to take me more time on this mechanic to quickly see which tether is mine) and a delay on the first set of tethers ends up making the second set cross at the same time the first is finally going through. As far as DPS checks, one idea for future day 1 content, maybe make sure everyone in the party (including tanks and healers) can clear the Stone and Sky solo duty for the fight. And don't forget, healer and tank DPS is also super important!
I’ve only had one person in pf try peddle this Strat to me and the party never saw phase 2. Correlation doesn’t mean causation. But sometimes evidence is damning
@@highroller5335 I am super glad I got all my totems before this strat became a thing that much. Not only are the markers a huge amount of visual clutter in the rest of the fight, but when we did do it, people would often not be exact enough for it to actually work. I remember as ranged, on a shift to the yellow platforms, the melee in front of me completely covered my spot, and the entire corner, so I had nowhere to adjust to after the shift. I just used my eyes and took the empty space in front of them instead. Not to mention, I've been killed as a corner guy in Coronation because the player at the cardinal couldn't find North and ended up killing me with his aoe (because we didn't have the markers up for coronation then).
Kyle's ice phase strategy is the preferred PF strat, ("fixed bridge" or "braindead"). Happy's strat is a priority-based strat that didn't require memorizing fixed positions, which higher-skill raiders are good at but EX tier players generally aren't. I was actually very impressed when Kyle whipped out fixed bridge fairly quickly!
I hate fixed ice. I understand that for some reason it's easier for a lot of players but in general I have a pet peeve about strats that promise players they won't have to pay attention to anyone but themselves because it too often leads to easily avoidable wipes where one person makes a mistake that could easily be adjusted for, but because people are fixated on the strategy all hell breaks loose. There are quite a few mechanics that I personally feel PF majorly overcomplicates so people don't have to understand how it works. Ah, well.
Another thing too. What you are talking about at around 17 minutes of anticipating future mechanics is an incredibly important skill for savages and ultimates. Mechanics in extreme's are paced in such a such a way that don't require too much foresight but even the easier savages require that right out of the gate.
In my experience, the only time this doesn't work is with Acceleration Bombs. I just have to stop doing whatever at least a second before those go off.
Just so you know, but if you ever choose to do this in PF, some of the strats are different. A lot of PF strats revolves around following other popular guide makers, you'll see a certain H pop up a lot and also links to strat pictures groupings. About the Coronation cheese, it's a possible dev oversight on the dmg itself, as depending on the fights that has this, some fights have it lethal if too close, while others are weak like this one, it just mostly requires testing.
Mr Happy goes over this a bit in the podcast. The flare markers are actually on DPS characters so they are designed to do damage in a way that doesn't kill the dps outright. That's why they do so much less damage. If the flare markers were put on tanks, the damage output can be much higher as the tanks won't die, and have mit for it.
Flare damage varies depending on what role they're stick to, it's not really an oversight? I think they had it in mind as they design stuff to be "cheesed out" from time to time. MTTT is clear design of "you can do this, but what about invuln?" Square gives us paths of least resistance from time to time. A reason of why you can do mechanics in a different way and they have multiple options to resolve them.
You guys actually smashed it with this prog. I knew the fight was going to be way longer than the other Extremes you have done, but you did extremely well with figuring it all out fairly swiftly, and the way you sussed out the 2nd phase in as short of a time as you did was insanely impressive. The only thing you missed was damage, and that's between you and the team you're with to sort out, whether from improving rotation, improving buff alignment, or even just upgrading your gear ilvl. Once you get that damage increase through whatever means, you'll be clearing this fight no problem.
Despite this minor setback, I’m very glad that the boys had the experience of raiding day 1 with everyone completely utterly blind alongside. A fantastic exercise in reading mechanics and strats planning.
13:45 Your meteors when they exploded were closer than that. It doesn't matter that it's touching the purple part, it's that the meteors explode if the exact center of one meteor is inside the AOE of another meteor. That's not happening in Happy's vid, but in your runs when it happened you were very barely overlapping your center into another meteor's circle.
I want to point out that this is not what party finder does the hector hectorson's guide (highly recomended guide maker) reflects more what PF is doing - at least in crystal. the spreads for earth is tanks and melees north and healers and rangeds south for meteors is either L meteors, similar to happy but in order tank melee healer and ranged to the side or box meteors as shown by hector of course the mit chesse is how flares/corner buddies goes, we were not expecting anything else (but watch out as many times people use all their mit for flares and die to damage in the next shift raidwide) and ice is actually basically your strat braindead/static bridges where which bridge you take is based on your tether. this is personally my favorite strat and thr only one I join parties for, any other strat in my opinion just makes things worse in an already painful mechanic. any conga line version just makes everything so much more visually confusing and any priorities (ex: tanks and melees north, ranged and healers south) can lead to the possibility of 4 people passing trought the same damn bridge. static bridges based on your tether just makes sense. you have the responsability of watching your tether and ONLY your tether and makes it possible to move faster without traffic jams (either way, its likely you will just healer LB after itlmao) as for tethers PF does MTTT melee takes it first, passes it to tank, who invulns 3rd and 4th, all tethers on tank is indeed gear gated
Kitchen sink 2nd ice deals around 220k damage or so for what I've seen. Definetly gear gated if you go in at 710ilvl. MTTT is the superior start for PF.
You guys did pretty great! As a fan of blind prog myself, I always find it validating to see how other people solved it to feel good about coming up with a good strat, or feel even better about thinking the strat we came up with better... or be reasonably annoyed at the stupid cheese we missed that removes the need for an elegant solution. :'D Hope you're planning on giving the 24 man Chaotic a go when it's out. Will be fun to watch!
The rule of "there were people dead so let's not analyze this mechanic until we see it with EVERYONE ALIVE" is so absolute in this game, it will serve you well in any content you do blind, be it extremes, savage, and even criterion dungeons, so that was a great learning experience in itself for you guys :)
My blind experience with static (all of us are pentalegends) is: ~2h or so on meteors, ~20min on ice. Next day, 40 min on ice, 20min on p2 and clear. Between those 2 days, we came up with an ice strat (without knowing the bridge would break) and decided to try mitting Absolute Authority. After we found out bridge broke during prog, we quickly said melee N, ranged S. We also saw the tethers were given by roles. We never truly discussed about who goes first if same role melee or ranged had to go towards the same side, we just used eyes. Nowadays, I believe our ice strat is closest to what people called the "brainalive" strat or N/S strat. Kyle came out with the "braindead" PF strat, which is preferred in PF (I personally prefer what my static did, but it's a strat that definitely works). We cleared before noticing TTTT for tethers after ice was not possible and always killed our tanks (lol). This EX was considered pretty good and decently difficult. There is certain experience you get on ultimates that'd have helped you solve mechs quicker (i.e. mitting flares/stacks is something done in TOP ultimate, congalines for priority systems in ice is something that was also done in that ultimate). Gear as well as the 1% buff from having a pranged would have helped you with the mit/healing checks on radical shift. You guys got the EX solved though, so it's just a question of you + your teammates to do it clean to pass it (or semi-clean, the DPS check is not that bad). With endgame content (and specially current content) after Shadowbringer, body checks are somewhat common, specially on savages and certain difficult EXs. Therefore, one weak member/slower learner can hurt the prog. It can't be helped.
Having spent *hours* progging the Criterions completely blind with a friend group and developing our own strategies, it's always really cool to go back later and see what people come up with. It's a very tough but very rewarding experience! (It's also really fun to post a diagram I made in the whole FC's raid chat and have other friends from outside the group immediately go "what the everloving flip is that" because it's so completely different from the strats that become standard lmao)
24:20 yes it is different, you CAN kitchen sink it if you DO NOT have the stack, the problem becomes that the stack is randomly assigned to 1/2 players that are the current tether marker, this makes it so if you do tanks for all 4, 1 tank is GURANTEED to die because 2nd tether + stack = 999,999 dmg
Regarding tank cheesing tethers, you CAN do what Happy did, but as you've found out, it's iffy; it will need some help from healer mits if not fully geared, AND then you end up with no mits for the tank buster after (which you will see if your group can't reduce boss to 0.1% this early) For safety PF does MTTT, with melees taking first tether, and tanks taking last 3
The second phase of the extreme is what people often call a "choke check". It occurs in a lot of fights where the last section is flashy but easier mechanically, mostly just to see if you fuck it up from nerves. They even happen in Ultimates, and it... it hurts when you fall to the choke check. Ask me how I know.
13:50 They explode if the aoe reaches the center of the purple, as physical bodies hit boxes are often denoted by a small dot/circle/rod coming from the center of the model
I believe they thought being able to control your gravity (to make room for interesting float then go down mechs like the earth towers) trivializes any wall mechanic they might do, and I see that logic. You don't have to decide which hole to go to when you can pick any hole
Both ExSphene streams were a great time. It's gonna be a blast following you through EX's as they drop and the eventual Savages/Unreals/Ultimates etc. I know its not cleared yet, but you guys did great!
I really enjoy this fight being as hectic as it is for being an extreme. At least compared to how Endsinger was handled back in 6.1, it feels like a nice evolution of fight design comparing the two. And seeing the way that Kyle and Garrett were able to figure out a lot of the mechanics on their own is impressive. I know thats because they’re very experienced with MMOs, but I love watching the puzzle solving that is high end raiding. Though I understand in Party Finder it’s quite the gamble.
Most things are just variations that works and is fine but there's one notable difference that JP parties does, which is the 2 players who took the 2 towers (during the 2nd earth towers phase) will be the ones who drop the 4 rocks on the platform. What this basically does is negate the need for players to levitate/land more then necessary (and reduced amount of slidecasting needed for casters) , which as you mentioned earlier can be finnicky. It does introduce some randomness for *who* drops the meteor so it's a pick your poison thing.
It has been great watching you guys prog and this video has some fantastic validation for your efforts. Also great reactions on some of the cheese possibilities.
Don't beat yourself up over the wasted time Garret. Those skills you learned will be useful in the future. Cheesing is good for PF clears but understanding what the intended solution is and actually executing it is a very useful skillset for Savage level fights. Extreme fights are mostly flexible with mechanics so I had a different time in Elemental. Meteors are done a bit differently. Ice bridges are fixed, which is really the best strat.
@8:30 is kinda funny because i devolved into just listening to the cue that the lift gives whenever you pass through it... I don't even look if I'm floating or if i have the buff anymore haha. Also don't wiggle on the thing, don't walk into it and exit on the same side that kinda messes up the hit detection from the lift and makes you go down immediately. Pass through it from one side to the next IT will count 100% even if you don't get put up or down right away for some reason it takes like half a second to actually register the shift.
Just something to mention. What you guys were doing with your corner buddy strat is normally how that would have to be solved (or something similar) the fact it can be cheesed by staying stacked together seems like a bit of an over site. A mechanic like that normally would kill you staying stacked lol
In our team, we put tanks at the wall near Sphene, then melee, then heal/ranged. I don't see reason for pushing ranged near the boss and tanks back :'D We also put our meteors in squares but we hide behind the one in the back. There is a possibility that Sphene will attack front meteors first. We also do ice aoes/stack normally but invuln the towers. There are many different strategies out there :D
to be fair with the corner buddies thing, that is likely the intended solution. Its a very common tempo in savage (especially last expansion) where you do mechanic and then rapidly need to partner stack or spread at the end. It just seems to be a dev oversight that theres no magic vuln there.
Dev oversight, or the fact that this is an ex not savage and so they're giving you the option of making it a little easier, as savage is usually a bit stricter on mechs :)
My static does the box for the meteors with caster uptime (so melees and tanks are the only ones that stay on the platform casters just stay off and keep casting) and honestly its so much better. We also just stand in the back rocks and rarely have a problem with an attack missing the front rock because we put the front ones closer to the middle. Uptime is king in these fights if you wanna kill early lol.
For the flare mitigation; it actually does require a Lot of mitigation. as Scholar I do spread-crit adlo, sacred soil and expedience, plus seraph party shiled, and that does it on its own... but that is literally the entire kit. Dark Missionary/phys ranged mit/Sun Sign or White Mage wings are highly reccommended. Also, as far as I'm aware, since the debuffs are doing the damage and not the boss, Reprisal does nothing - save that for the Ice phase Virtual Shift. That is lethal on non-max ilvl people without mitigation, and even with it's best to do something there. Edit: Ah, you've found what my friends call Fake Mechanic! Those are things that are in Normal Mode, but in no way show up in the harder versions. Other big ones include the P9 mechanic where the boss summons two ice and two fire balls in static positions, P9 dropping the wind puddles manually, and from Sphene again, the visually-telegraphed 'get in here' aoe with the spiralling drones - and even the following ground aoes! Final edit: there is a very specific bit of uptiming that Coronation allows. If someone's laser position would put them south-middle, they can in fact stand in the very centre of the arena and remain smacking the boss with melee attacks, and it works out fine. Full-east and full-west can both nudge themselves forwards to find max melee and hit from there, and the south corner points can still shuffle forwards juuust a bit to allow ranged plinking. (Yes, if you go all the way to the corner, you are still out of Unmend range. :( )
Whilst reprisal does not affect player based actors, it does affect the raidwides that come from the boss; the repeated slams, specifically. Whilst the damage is somewhat negligible, it’s basically free considering you have two reprisals anyway
I may be wrong, but the logs list Absolute Authority damage as coming from Queen Eternal rather than a third party, which means mits like rep, feint, and addle should work. All three also do show up as mitigation next to the damage entry for Absolute Authority in my clear logs. It does take a fair amount of mit, but IF your party is actually contributing to mit it should not take your whole kit. My clear the SCH did crit lo and seraphic veil, no expedience or soil (those went on the following virtual shift). Concitation after the flares went off to catch the dorito stacks. However, that came with Shake it off and Heart of Light from the tanks, Samba from the DNC, Divine Caress from WHM, a Reprisal, Addle, and Feint. We still had a second rep and addle (double caster party) for the virtual shift after
FYI ranged DPS missing was more than a damage nerf. Its a 1% increase to strength, vitality, dexterity, mind, and intelligence for having a ranged DPS. So HP is lower as well.
Kinda funny that you say it takes a moment to feel as though you are in the air. That float mechanic is probably the most responsive and non-XIVSnapshot-bs thing they've made rofl.
7:50 - unfortunately, at times if something as indicative as buff is able to be used, indeed use them XD animations and sounds can get easily muddled with something else- Oh and be decisive with the movement- walk in, quick pause, walk out (then hope the server catches you right - except at those few %s that it just let u walk thru the pad without doing anything 😂) 16:45 - yeah bless you guys’ bean socks u guys did it properly proud of u guys 😂🎉
Don't feel bad about learning how to do the whole flare/buddy mechanic properly! Thinking about what you're going to be doing next really is an integral skill for harder fights!
Oh, my party was doing melee on first tether in Ice, and tank on the other 3, regular mit on the first one, and then invuln the last 2. And 100% Ice phase can go eat a bag of Richards.
Hardest part of this fight is finding people that understand each mechanic. Its pretty beafy fight for EX trial. Savage is more brutal, but tempo is about same.
If you do absolute cheese, do make sure you're using those mits big time, that's one thing that keeps getting people. They know mit but not how much mit and then the tanks just stand there like 'not again'
Haha ye Happy makes it sound simple, but it does take a new party a few tries to work out their mits and still have enough for the ice transition afterwards. Oh the number of times we’ve rejected Authority only to have Virtual Shift dunk on every non-tanks after lol.
you can kitchen sink that hit easily as tank, you press all cds you have aside invul, party mitigates aswell(like feint and tanks do reprisal, just in case) and you take surely alot dmg, but you dont die, even with no savage gear, healers should also prep the tanks with shields before they take the hits. it is possible surely as the initial dmg is just 231k without mitigations(maybe rampart?) if you use all cds, you lose another 30% total dmg on that 231k you got, what is then around 170+k, if you use party mitis and boss hit mitis like feint you can drop that even further, so surely its possible, just need to use really everything a tank has as cds.
i really wish pf did not adopt fixed bridges, its worse in every way. the strat gareth is talking about at 19:43 is N/S and role based (variant before fixed bridge in the hector guide shown actually), its just better
NA is so bad at only wanting to do the first thing they come across, even if it’s a janky Day One Hector strat that Hector himself says “hey man, this is subject to change”. I gave up on PF/Savage in P1 when they wanted to have tanks eat Damage Down.. i have so many other instances from that tier that irritated me but oh well, I’m going to just be a casual going forward
That ice phase Mr Happy bridge things mostly only works on statics party, if it is at party finder, you will see people just not moving and waiting for "who go first" or greeding 1 to 2 gcd not moving and the other overpass them; if it is party finder, people use similar to Kyle's strategy, but reverse instead (Outer North, Inner South); for the tether laser, people use MTTT, melee take the first one, tank take the 2nd one, then invul the 3rd and 4th one
My 2nd run after clear my group hit her so hard she went straight to phase shift after ice. We still had lb3 so as soon as phase 2 started BAM a good chunk of hp gone
I hope you enjoyed the run In truth I wondered if you'd actually enjoy endgame raiding as I haven't seen much wow raiding and wasn't sure if you could compare the 2 And yeah though you the the fights in the 60's 70's 80's and 90's brackets the fights have a different feel when you're at the current gear cap and can't rely on overpowering the enemy And the squish we experienced made a lot of older content easier even with level sync on Hope you enjoy your savage raid attempts, those are going to require a whole new batch of burning braincells
@Grinding Gear because Congaline is a bit longer used already and MrHappy not goes to much in detail with how it is used i can give a little insight how we use it to minimize the thinking. a 4 Player Congaline if you are Number 1 or 4 you not have to look at anybody else then yourself if you are 1 and you get the left thether you go if you get the right one you now you wait, if you are Number 2 you only look at player 1 if you are 3 you only look at player 4, means if you are Number 3 and you have the left side thether most would now think now i have to look at player 1 and 2 but you don'T if 4 has left theher eswell you now already you go and if he has right you now you have to wait. if it would 8 Player Congaline you would do it kinda the same 1 and 8 would be on there own and 2-4 would look left and 5-7 only right that makes it as simpel as posseble for alot mechaniks.
Hap's ice phase is overly complex and time sensitive for no reason. Side tethers can just go across the bridge they're next to, south tethers can split into outer/inner and outer taking north, inner taking south. You just look at your own tether and resolve asap. All 4 south tethers go out at the same time, followed by all 4 side tethers. Reverse on the same bridges when going back in.
Happy's guides are great and he's a lovely guy, but PF will often end up following Hector's strats. I personally find I learn better from Hector's guides because they're so simply presented. He's a teacher and it shows ... you might want to take a look at how he does his guides. Everybody has their preferred presentation but I really like the clean nature of Hector's guides and he's helped me crack fights that I was totally not getting properly from watching other guides. Btw you guys did awesome figuring out strats! Cheering for you to take her down at the next available opportunity ^_^
"We dont have to do corner buddies." as he laments Damn do I know that feeling. 17"33 This is what I lovingly call the Dark Souls Effect, using everything at your disposal against massive odds and succeeding.
My kingdom for a Damage! RIP Corner Buddies. I for one support the sanctity of corner buddies and not this vile pile of WoLs mitting and flaring all over each other.
You actually came up with the better ice bridge strat than MrHappy, Kyles cook is basically the same as Hector Fixed bridges, just with bottom inner outer prios switched (Hector does inner bot outer top bridge - the choice is just a matter of picking one order). So the score is GG 1 - MrHappy 1 😅 (he gets the point for Absolute Authority) Also, most PFs I've seen do tethers MTTT not TTTT, no sense doing risky kitchen sinking when a melee can just take 1st.
Happy doesn't get caught by snapshots because Happy has a SUPER GOOD ping... he has shorts where even he is surprised that even though the animation of the attack already hit him, he still managed to run to the safe spot scott-free... I swear it's like he's literally living ON the servers of the game... lol; also you guys trying the L strat the first time, I think you guys weren't stacked together, that's why the L strat did not work at all (it randomly took rocks which is wrong coz you all have to stack together coz the boss targets a random player every time)
FYI Garret and Kyle did you know when you face the other way of the boss and u using skill you'll face the boss 😊 so you don't have to face the boss everytime using skill when needed to.
If you want an L strat that actually lets you stand in one spot for 3 hits, make an italics L, where the top originates in the top-middle of the platform
Its good to understand now all the old extremes u've did with viewers are all actors who all known how to fight and with tons of red mage on spamming res LUL
Thank you to Mr Happy for joining us on on the Podcast Monday! ua-cam.com/video/izwlbAd7xQU/v-deo.html
Please go give his video its own like, view and subscribe! ua-cam.com/video/kOWRkR66yM8/v-deo.html
The Mr. Happy video link links directly to this video instead of his. To clarify, the link in the comment...not the link in the dubbily-doo.
@@Titanius_zos_Aires Woop! Fixed!
@@Amovetv it's not fixed as of today
"I don't trust the party" you're ready for PF
eh, honestly PF is a mixed bag you either get the gamers or...
I think you should be proud of yourselves. You went in less geared and with strangers who you don't know how much hard content experience they have. It's the true PF experience!
For icicle several strats may work, fixed bridges I think work best, but an issue I was still having when I did this fight (and that includes me messing this up) is how fast the first tethers are being crossed (it's going to take me more time on this mechanic to quickly see which tether is mine) and a delay on the first set of tethers ends up making the second set cross at the same time the first is finally going through.
As far as DPS checks, one idea for future day 1 content, maybe make sure everyone in the party (including tanks and healers) can clear the Stone and Sky solo duty for the fight. And don't forget, healer and tank DPS is also super important!
There are 4 safe spots that cover every color of the radical shifts, you just need to stand there and shift out after the swap, highly recommend!
nah fam I highly reccomend people looking for physical tells more.
I’ve only had one person in pf try peddle this Strat to me and the party never saw phase 2. Correlation doesn’t mean causation. But sometimes evidence is damning
@@highroller5335 I am super glad I got all my totems before this strat became a thing that much. Not only are the markers a huge amount of visual clutter in the rest of the fight, but when we did do it, people would often not be exact enough for it to actually work. I remember as ranged, on a shift to the yellow platforms, the melee in front of me completely covered my spot, and the entire corner, so I had nowhere to adjust to after the shift. I just used my eyes and took the empty space in front of them instead.
Not to mention, I've been killed as a corner guy in Coronation because the player at the cardinal couldn't find North and ended up killing me with his aoe (because we didn't have the markers up for coronation then).
The use your eyes strat only takes 1 sec to figure out where the safe spot it. People should try that
YOU PLAY FFXIV????? HOW DID I NOT KNOW MY MONSTER HUNTER TUBER PLAYS FFXIV?!?!?
Kyle's ice phase strategy is the preferred PF strat, ("fixed bridge" or "braindead"). Happy's strat is a priority-based strat that didn't require memorizing fixed positions, which higher-skill raiders are good at but EX tier players generally aren't.
I was actually very impressed when Kyle whipped out fixed bridge fairly quickly!
I hate fixed ice. I understand that for some reason it's easier for a lot of players but in general I have a pet peeve about strats that promise players they won't have to pay attention to anyone but themselves because it too often leads to easily avoidable wipes where one person makes a mistake that could easily be adjusted for, but because people are fixated on the strategy all hell breaks loose. There are quite a few mechanics that I personally feel PF majorly overcomplicates so people don't have to understand how it works. Ah, well.
Another thing too. What you are talking about at around 17 minutes of anticipating future mechanics is an incredibly important skill for savages and ultimates. Mechanics in extreme's are paced in such a such a way that don't require too much foresight but even the easier savages require that right out of the gate.
Considering it is your first current EX you should be proud, you have done an amazing job so far. You got it!
Hey you guys went into this blind and came up with your own strats without ANY help, I respect that o7
"Every mechanic is a body check"
Welcome to Endwalker Savage Raiding!
If someone is dead we call that "Cursed data". You can gain some information but as a rule you need to see a mechanic with 8/8 alive.
"I only trust the buff icon"
-Garrett 2024
i had a good laugh when he said it, since i'm the same lol
I mean, I said something very similar, because that gravity well is jank AF.
In my experience, the only time this doesn't work is with Acceleration Bombs. I just have to stop doing whatever at least a second before those go off.
Same tbh
Just so you know, but if you ever choose to do this in PF, some of the strats are different. A lot of PF strats revolves around following other popular guide makers, you'll see a certain H pop up a lot and also links to strat pictures groupings. About the Coronation cheese, it's a possible dev oversight on the dmg itself, as depending on the fights that has this, some fights have it lethal if too close, while others are weak like this one, it just mostly requires testing.
Mr Happy goes over this a bit in the podcast. The flare markers are actually on DPS characters so they are designed to do damage in a way that doesn't kill the dps outright. That's why they do so much less damage.
If the flare markers were put on tanks, the damage output can be much higher as the tanks won't die, and have mit for it.
Flare damage varies depending on what role they're stick to, it's not really an oversight? I think they had it in mind as they design stuff to be "cheesed out" from time to time. MTTT is clear design of "you can do this, but what about invuln?"
Square gives us paths of least resistance from time to time. A reason of why you can do mechanics in a different way and they have multiple options to resolve them.
You guys actually smashed it with this prog. I knew the fight was going to be way longer than the other Extremes you have done, but you did extremely well with figuring it all out fairly swiftly, and the way you sussed out the 2nd phase in as short of a time as you did was insanely impressive. The only thing you missed was damage, and that's between you and the team you're with to sort out, whether from improving rotation, improving buff alignment, or even just upgrading your gear ilvl. Once you get that damage increase through whatever means, you'll be clearing this fight no problem.
I feel the “we need more damage” in my soul lol.
Despite this minor setback, I’m very glad that the boys had the experience of raiding day 1 with everyone completely utterly blind alongside. A fantastic exercise in reading mechanics and strats planning.
13:45 Your meteors when they exploded were closer than that. It doesn't matter that it's touching the purple part, it's that the meteors explode if the exact center of one meteor is inside the AOE of another meteor. That's not happening in Happy's vid, but in your runs when it happened you were very barely overlapping your center into another meteor's circle.
I want to point out that this is not what party finder does
the hector hectorson's guide (highly recomended guide maker) reflects more what PF is doing - at least in crystal.
the spreads for earth is tanks and melees north and healers and rangeds south
for meteors is either L meteors, similar to happy but in order tank melee healer and ranged to the side or box meteors as shown by hector
of course the mit chesse is how flares/corner buddies goes, we were not expecting anything else (but watch out as many times people use all their mit for flares and die to damage in the next shift raidwide)
and ice is actually basically your strat braindead/static bridges where which bridge you take is based on your tether. this is personally my favorite strat and thr only one I join parties for, any other strat in my opinion just makes things worse in an already painful mechanic.
any conga line version just makes everything so much more visually confusing and any priorities (ex: tanks and melees north, ranged and healers south) can lead to the possibility of 4 people passing trought the same damn bridge.
static bridges based on your tether just makes sense. you have the responsability of watching your tether and ONLY your tether and makes it possible to move faster without traffic jams
(either way, its likely you will just healer LB after itlmao)
as for tethers PF does MTTT
melee takes it first, passes it to tank, who invulns 3rd and 4th, all tethers on tank is indeed gear gated
Kitchen sink 2nd ice deals around 220k damage or so for what I've seen. Definetly gear gated if you go in at 710ilvl.
MTTT is the superior start for PF.
You guys did pretty great! As a fan of blind prog myself, I always find it validating to see how other people solved it to feel good about coming up with a good strat, or feel even better about thinking the strat we came up with better... or be reasonably annoyed at the stupid cheese we missed that removes the need for an elegant solution. :'D
Hope you're planning on giving the 24 man Chaotic a go when it's out. Will be fun to watch!
Fixed Brides IS the strat you guys do. You just have inners N outer S instead
The rule of "there were people dead so let's not analyze this mechanic until we see it with EVERYONE ALIVE" is so absolute in this game, it will serve you well in any content you do blind, be it extremes, savage, and even criterion dungeons, so that was a great learning experience in itself for you guys :)
My blind experience with static (all of us are pentalegends) is: ~2h or so on meteors, ~20min on ice. Next day, 40 min on ice, 20min on p2 and clear. Between those 2 days, we came up with an ice strat (without knowing the bridge would break) and decided to try mitting Absolute Authority. After we found out bridge broke during prog, we quickly said melee N, ranged S. We also saw the tethers were given by roles. We never truly discussed about who goes first if same role melee or ranged had to go towards the same side, we just used eyes. Nowadays, I believe our ice strat is closest to what people called the "brainalive" strat or N/S strat. Kyle came out with the "braindead" PF strat, which is preferred in PF (I personally prefer what my static did, but it's a strat that definitely works). We cleared before noticing TTTT for tethers after ice was not possible and always killed our tanks (lol).
This EX was considered pretty good and decently difficult. There is certain experience you get on ultimates that'd have helped you solve mechs quicker (i.e. mitting flares/stacks is something done in TOP ultimate, congalines for priority systems in ice is something that was also done in that ultimate). Gear as well as the 1% buff from having a pranged would have helped you with the mit/healing checks on radical shift.
You guys got the EX solved though, so it's just a question of you + your teammates to do it clean to pass it (or semi-clean, the DPS check is not that bad). With endgame content (and specially current content) after Shadowbringer, body checks are somewhat common, specially on savages and certain difficult EXs. Therefore, one weak member/slower learner can hurt the prog. It can't be helped.
Having spent *hours* progging the Criterions completely blind with a friend group and developing our own strategies, it's always really cool to go back later and see what people come up with. It's a very tough but very rewarding experience! (It's also really fun to post a diagram I made in the whole FC's raid chat and have other friends from outside the group immediately go "what the everloving flip is that" because it's so completely different from the strats that become standard lmao)
I love this comparison! I’ve been on the edge of my seat watching your prog, you guys got this next run!
24:20 yes it is different, you CAN kitchen sink it if you DO NOT have the stack, the problem becomes that the stack is randomly assigned to 1/2 players that are the current tether marker, this makes it so if you do tanks for all 4, 1 tank is GURANTEED to die because 2nd tether + stack = 999,999 dmg
Regarding tank cheesing tethers, you CAN do what Happy did, but as you've found out, it's iffy; it will need some help from healer mits if not fully geared, AND then you end up with no mits for the tank buster after (which you will see if your group can't reduce boss to 0.1% this early) For safety PF does MTTT, with melees taking first tether, and tanks taking last 3
The second phase of the extreme is what people often call a "choke check". It occurs in a lot of fights where the last section is flashy but easier mechanically, mostly just to see if you fuck it up from nerves. They even happen in Ultimates, and it... it hurts when you fall to the choke check. Ask me how I know.
13:50 They explode if the aoe reaches the center of the purple, as physical bodies hit boxes are often denoted by a small dot/circle/rod coming from the center of the model
I believe they thought being able to control your gravity (to make room for interesting float then go down mechs like the earth towers) trivializes any wall mechanic they might do, and I see that logic. You don't have to decide which hole to go to when you can pick any hole
Both ExSphene streams were a great time. It's gonna be a blast following you through EX's as they drop and the eventual Savages/Unreals/Ultimates etc. I know its not cleared yet, but you guys did great!
Uptime baby! I think for a first time week one experience with basically pf you guys did great, you should be proud!
Incredibly proud of you guys and I know you've got the clear when you get back to it.
I really enjoy this fight being as hectic as it is for being an extreme. At least compared to how Endsinger was handled back in 6.1, it feels like a nice evolution of fight design comparing the two. And seeing the way that Kyle and Garrett were able to figure out a lot of the mechanics on their own is impressive. I know thats because they’re very experienced with MMOs, but I love watching the puzzle solving that is high end raiding. Though I understand in Party Finder it’s quite the gamble.
It's live right now!
Most things are just variations that works and is fine but there's one notable difference that JP parties does, which is the 2 players who took the 2 towers (during the 2nd earth towers phase) will be the ones who drop the 4 rocks on the platform. What this basically does is negate the need for players to levitate/land more then necessary (and reduced amount of slidecasting needed for casters) , which as you mentioned earlier can be finnicky. It does introduce some randomness for *who* drops the meteor so it's a pick your poison thing.
It has been great watching you guys prog and this video has some fantastic validation for your efforts. Also great reactions on some of the cheese possibilities.
20:50 - you also want your tanks in front and ranged in the back for uptime
Don't beat yourself up over the wasted time Garret. Those skills you learned will be useful in the future. Cheesing is good for PF clears but understanding what the intended solution is and actually executing it is a very useful skillset for Savage level fights.
Extreme fights are mostly flexible with mechanics so I had a different time in Elemental. Meteors are done a bit differently. Ice bridges are fixed, which is really the best strat.
Constant body checks?
Wellcome to the proper endgame. :)
17:20 you need this experience for Savage and Ultimate. You're a better player for figuring it out
You made way more progress than any of my FC statics ever did in Ex trials.
10:31 so you’re saying “Stand Still and let things resolve” got it
Am I a sadist for wanting to see them try and figure out High Concept blind at least once? It would be soooo funny!
@8:30 is kinda funny because i devolved into just listening to the cue that the lift gives whenever you pass through it... I don't even look if I'm floating or if i have the buff anymore haha.
Also don't wiggle on the thing, don't walk into it and exit on the same side that kinda messes up the hit detection from the lift and makes you go down immediately. Pass through it from one side to the next IT will count 100% even if you don't get put up or down right away for some reason it takes like half a second to actually register the shift.
Just something to mention. What you guys were doing with your corner buddy strat is normally how that would have to be solved (or something similar) the fact it can be cheesed by staying stacked together seems like a bit of an over site. A mechanic like that normally would kill you staying stacked lol
In our team, we put tanks at the wall near Sphene, then melee, then heal/ranged. I don't see reason for pushing ranged near the boss and tanks back :'D
We also put our meteors in squares but we hide behind the one in the back. There is a possibility that Sphene will attack front meteors first.
We also do ice aoes/stack normally but invuln the towers.
There are many different strategies out there :D
I've anticipated this eagerly
to be fair with the corner buddies thing, that is likely the intended solution. Its a very common tempo in savage (especially last expansion) where you do mechanic and then rapidly need to partner stack or spread at the end. It just seems to be a dev oversight that theres no magic vuln there.
Dev oversight, or the fact that this is an ex not savage and so they're giving you the option of making it a little easier, as savage is usually a bit stricter on mechs :)
We manged to disrespect authority with only three people alive before. Neutral Sec and Shake it off worked like whoaaa its silly you can do it
You lads got this next run!
My static does the box for the meteors with caster uptime (so melees and tanks are the only ones that stay on the platform casters just stay off and keep casting) and honestly its so much better. We also just stand in the back rocks and rarely have a problem with an attack missing the front rock because we put the front ones closer to the middle. Uptime is king in these fights if you wanna kill early lol.
Stacking the flares is something people who did TOP prolly think of still shocks me so many JP parties insisted on doing it "Properly"
hahaha, no worries, this is fairly common for certain extremes on release!
Loved this video! You two are very entertaining.
For the flare mitigation; it actually does require a Lot of mitigation. as Scholar I do spread-crit adlo, sacred soil and expedience, plus seraph party shiled, and that does it on its own... but that is literally the entire kit. Dark Missionary/phys ranged mit/Sun Sign or White Mage wings are highly reccommended.
Also, as far as I'm aware, since the debuffs are doing the damage and not the boss, Reprisal does nothing - save that for the Ice phase Virtual Shift. That is lethal on non-max ilvl people without mitigation, and even with it's best to do something there.
Edit: Ah, you've found what my friends call Fake Mechanic! Those are things that are in Normal Mode, but in no way show up in the harder versions. Other big ones include the P9 mechanic where the boss summons two ice and two fire balls in static positions, P9 dropping the wind puddles manually, and from Sphene again, the visually-telegraphed 'get in here' aoe with the spiralling drones - and even the following ground aoes!
Final edit: there is a very specific bit of uptiming that Coronation allows. If someone's laser position would put them south-middle, they can in fact stand in the very centre of the arena and remain smacking the boss with melee attacks, and it works out fine. Full-east and full-west can both nudge themselves forwards to find max melee and hit from there, and the south corner points can still shuffle forwards juuust a bit to allow ranged plinking. (Yes, if you go all the way to the corner, you are still out of Unmend range. :( )
Whilst reprisal does not affect player based actors, it does affect the raidwides that come from the boss; the repeated slams, specifically. Whilst the damage is somewhat negligible, it’s basically free considering you have two reprisals anyway
I may be wrong, but the logs list Absolute Authority damage as coming from Queen Eternal rather than a third party, which means mits like rep, feint, and addle should work. All three also do show up as mitigation next to the damage entry for Absolute Authority in my clear logs.
It does take a fair amount of mit, but IF your party is actually contributing to mit it should not take your whole kit. My clear the SCH did crit lo and seraphic veil, no expedience or soil (those went on the following virtual shift). Concitation after the flares went off to catch the dorito stacks. However, that came with Shake it off and Heart of Light from the tanks, Samba from the DNC, Divine Caress from WHM, a Reprisal, Addle, and Feint. We still had a second rep and addle (double caster party) for the virtual shift after
13:38 I think b/c they were all levitating it prevented death when the aoe’s were touching from the rocks
FYI ranged DPS missing was more than a damage nerf. Its a 1% increase to strength, vitality, dexterity, mind, and intelligence for having a ranged DPS. So HP is lower as well.
13:29 You can even drop all 4 rocks in a line, and hide behind the last one, resulting in zero movement required.
There’s also “dick strat” where you make an ahem well…..
"i dont trust the party" Welcome to PF Pain
the purple effect does not matter, your character has a hitbox of one single pixel in the center of your own targetingring (13:40)
Kinda funny that you say it takes a moment to feel as though you are in the air. That float mechanic is probably the most responsive and non-XIVSnapshot-bs thing they've made rofl.
7:50 - unfortunately, at times if something as indicative as buff is able to be used, indeed use them XD animations and sounds can get easily muddled with something else-
Oh and be decisive with the movement- walk in, quick pause, walk out (then hope the server catches you right - except at those few %s that it just let u walk thru the pad without doing anything 😂)
16:45 - yeah bless you guys’ bean socks u guys did it properly proud of u guys 😂🎉
Don't feel bad about learning how to do the whole flare/buddy mechanic properly! Thinking about what you're going to be doing next really is an integral skill for harder fights!
I can't wait for them to finish an ultimate blind and then watch a guide :)
There’s markers to make platform shift in final phase static spread positions regardless of platform chosen 😂😂
Oh, my party was doing melee on first tether in Ice, and tank on the other 3, regular mit on the first one, and then invuln the last 2. And 100% Ice phase can go eat a bag of Richards.
I absolutely hate the gravity well. Idk why but I either can't get it to register me, or can't stop it from registering me twice.
Hardest part of this fight is finding people that understand each mechanic.
Its pretty beafy fight for EX trial. Savage is more brutal, but tempo is about same.
That little bromance snippet at the end. ❤
If you do absolute cheese, do make sure you're using those mits big time, that's one thing that keeps getting people. They know mit but not how much mit and then the tanks just stand there like 'not again'
Haha ye Happy makes it sound simple, but it does take a new party a few tries to work out their mits and still have enough for the ice transition afterwards. Oh the number of times we’ve rejected Authority only to have Virtual Shift dunk on every non-tanks after lol.
you can kitchen sink that hit easily as tank, you press all cds you have aside invul, party mitigates aswell(like feint and tanks do reprisal, just in case) and you take surely alot dmg, but you dont die, even with no savage gear, healers should also prep the tanks with shields before they take the hits. it is possible surely as the initial dmg is just 231k without mitigations(maybe rampart?) if you use all cds, you lose another 30% total dmg on that 231k you got, what is then around 170+k, if you use party mitis and boss hit mitis like feint you can drop that even further, so surely its possible, just need to use really everything a tank has as cds.
i really wish pf did not adopt fixed bridges, its worse in every way. the strat gareth is talking about at 19:43 is N/S and role based (variant before fixed bridge in the hector guide shown actually), its just better
NA is so bad at only wanting to do the first thing they come across, even if it’s a janky Day One Hector strat that Hector himself says “hey man, this is subject to change”. I gave up on PF/Savage in P1 when they wanted to have tanks eat Damage Down.. i have so many other instances from that tier that irritated me but oh well, I’m going to just be a casual going forward
That ice phase Mr Happy bridge things mostly only works on statics party, if it is at party finder, you will see people just not moving and waiting for "who go first" or greeding 1 to 2 gcd not moving and the other overpass them; if it is party finder, people use similar to Kyle's strategy, but reverse instead (Outer North, Inner South); for the tether laser, people use MTTT, melee take the first one, tank take the 2nd one, then invul the 3rd and 4th one
I saw 2 broken men when they saw AA cheese, lmao.
My 2nd run after clear my group hit her so hard she went straight to phase shift after ice. We still had lb3 so as soon as phase 2 started BAM a good chunk of hp gone
There now a cheese strat for the final phase. So much cheeze in this fight >
I hope you enjoyed the run
In truth I wondered if you'd actually enjoy endgame raiding as I haven't seen much wow raiding and wasn't sure if you could compare the 2
And yeah though you the the fights in the 60's 70's 80's and 90's brackets the fights have a different feel when you're at the current gear cap and can't rely on overpowering the enemy
And the squish we experienced made a lot of older content easier even with level sync on
Hope you enjoy your savage raid attempts, those are going to require a whole new batch of burning braincells
@Grinding Gear because Congaline is a bit longer used already and MrHappy not goes to much in detail with how it is used i can give a little insight how we use it to minimize the thinking. a 4 Player Congaline if you are Number 1 or 4 you not have to look at anybody else then yourself if you are 1 and you get the left thether you go if you get the right one you now you wait, if you are Number 2 you only look at player 1 if you are 3 you only look at player 4, means if you are Number 3 and you have the left side thether most would now think now i have to look at player 1 and 2 but you don'T if 4 has left theher eswell you now already you go and if he has right you now you have to wait. if it would 8 Player Congaline you would do it kinda the same 1 and 8 would be on there own and 2-4 would look left and 5-7 only right that makes it as simpel as posseble for alot mechaniks.
Hap's ice phase is overly complex and time sensitive for no reason. Side tethers can just go across the bridge they're next to, south tethers can split into outer/inner and outer taking north, inner taking south. You just look at your own tether and resolve asap. All 4 south tethers go out at the same time, followed by all 4 side tethers. Reverse on the same bridges when going back in.
Hey whatever works, it's day 1 strats.
@@magikonkuiz yeye of course, they were just talking about how they don't like it, so I was just saying it's not the optimal way
Happy's guides are great and he's a lovely guy, but PF will often end up following Hector's strats. I personally find I learn better from Hector's guides because they're so simply presented. He's a teacher and it shows ... you might want to take a look at how he does his guides. Everybody has their preferred presentation but I really like the clean nature of Hector's guides and he's helped me crack fights that I was totally not getting properly from watching other guides.
Btw you guys did awesome figuring out strats! Cheering for you to take her down at the next available opportunity ^_^
Weeeeeeeee, fresh in from Kyle's stream! ❤
"We dont have to do corner buddies." as he laments
Damn do I know that feeling.
17"33 This is what I lovingly call the Dark Souls Effect, using everything at your disposal against massive odds and succeeding.
Im touching the edge
My kingdom for a Damage! RIP Corner Buddies.
I for one support the sanctity of corner buddies and not this vile pile of WoLs mitting and flaring all over each other.
we all indeed hate ice
The bane of every farm party
You actually came up with the better ice bridge strat than MrHappy, Kyles cook is basically the same as Hector Fixed bridges, just with bottom inner outer prios switched (Hector does inner bot outer top bridge - the choice is just a matter of picking one order). So the score is GG 1 - MrHappy 1 😅 (he gets the point for Absolute Authority)
Also, most PFs I've seen do tethers MTTT not TTTT, no sense doing risky kitchen sinking when a melee can just take 1st.
Happy doesn't get caught by snapshots because Happy has a SUPER GOOD ping... he has shorts where even he is surprised that even though the animation of the attack already hit him, he still managed to run to the safe spot scott-free... I swear it's like he's literally living ON the servers of the game... lol; also you guys trying the L strat the first time, I think you guys weren't stacked together, that's why the L strat did not work at all (it randomly took rocks which is wrong coz you all have to stack together coz the boss targets a random player every time)
FYI Garret and Kyle did you know when you face the other way of the boss and u using skill you'll face the boss 😊 so you don't have to face the boss everytime using skill when needed to.
Sphene EX was very hard guys its okay.
If you want an L strat that actually lets you stand in one spot for 3 hits, make an italics L, where the top originates in the top-middle of the platform
They gonna buff absolute authority add em magic vuln 🤣🤣🤣
homework time 😎
Join us in two weeks when GG runs this again and has to shake the rust off.
I wonder if they'll bring in a new party or go with the same one
Yeah heads up, ff14 follows bullet hell rules for player hitbox, ei the only thing that matters is a pixel in the center of the character
Materia box strat for meteors is much better than anything NA came up with, video on my channel
Same with ice strat, each tether has its own bridge.
Feeding words to the algorithm.😊
OMG! IT'S LIVE RIGHT NOW!
thats something ive learned from several fights now, flare markers barely tickle most of the time. Very inconsistent. Abuse them
Its good to understand now all the old extremes u've did with viewers are all actors who all known how to fight and with tons of red mage on spamming res LUL
damage will come with time dw
It's not just the strats tbh, fix your rotations