Something I rarely see people point out or notice is the Ancients saying, "It will be ours again - a world free of sorrow," and how it's a callback to Elidibus in 5.3 saying, "My heart's sole desire is a world free of sorrow," because he's the embodiment of all the hopes and prayers of those within Zodiark. :')
In an interview after 6.0 was released, Yoshi P did reveal that they used the lyrics of Answers as inspiration for the plot of Endwalker. so this scene is very much what the entire thing revolves around.
@35:00 That whole cutscene's purpose, I think, was to explain to you WHY exactly she sundered the star. Heck, at the very beginning of Endwalker, you have the option to tell Venat that you no longer trust her after the events of Shadowbringers. So it was clear the developers knew that players were still, even after all of this, wavering on what they thought of Venat. There would still be players out there who were on the fence about how they feel about Venat, some might even still harbor grudge against her for sundering the world. I think they saw a necessity in showing the player her mentality behind sundering the world, and why it was necessary: To create a race of people who knew how to fight despair, who had tasted enough despair to become hardened to it, to, as Elidibus put it, "fight, kicking and screaming, until their last breath is spent". Because that's the kind of thing you NEED to be able to fight Meteion. She knew the ancients, with their Rose-Colored Glasses would never, ever, Ever succeed. They had a 0% chance. They had power, but no resolve. All the aether in the world wouldn't protect them from feeling despair, something they were wholly incapable of dealing with because they had been spoiled pansies for so long.
"No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth he shall walk" - "Like broken angels, wingless, cast from heaven's gates, we only fly when falling, falling far from grace", there's a lot of parallells to To The End here.
In one cutscene did Ishikawa not only completely redeem Hydaelyn (while leaving her actions morally gray) as a character, but also properly contextualized why the Ascians curse her name at every opportunity. _Imagine_ being one of the Ancients who lost their loved ones to Zodiark, and you are praying on your knees for them to be brought back, only for _that lady_ to show up and say "No, you're wrong" and then she destroys the world. Of course they despise her, particularly the nostalgic and unstable Unsundered Paragons.
Emets story event in Nier Reincarnation shows even more just how much they would despise her as well. The visual of how the original Unsundered, depicted solely via aether, deformed and mutilated as the narration tells of how they speak only in incomprehensible gibberish, and how by proxy the entire species devolved into cave dwellers who had to re-evolved across generations and how the horrific sight informed their decisions. Then later contrasted with aether retaking a normal human shape, and their inability to see the current people as people.
@@BlackfangDragonIt was even more than that: his soul sight allowed him to see how faded the sundered's souls were, and in the tale Through His Eyes, we saw that it was a natural instinct for him to perceive the aether around him, and that he saw even the souls of those 7 times rejoined as "a guttering candle" and "a sickly glow" compared to the "brilliant shine" of an unsundered's soul. He was repulsed by our souls, and we know from Shadowbringers how much that sight angered him as well.
@@Tenkuu-sanI think it was part anger and part angry-to-avoid-crushing-sorrow. We know it was Emet that secretly crafted Azem's Crystal, in defiance of the decision of the Convocation, and he specifically referred to Azem as one of his dearest companions in the dialogue we hear when we are given the crystal by the reconstituted Hyltho. So seeing _us,_ the shattered remains of the soul of one of his dearest companions, a fraction of our "former glory", from his perspective, must have been crushing to his soul. A reminder of the others he'd lost, like Hythlo.
I wonder, if at the point Emet-Selch saw WoL/Azem shard, if he secretly gave up seeing incontrovertible proof that his world is irrecoverable? And him doing the song and dance in Shadowbringers is him preparing his grave, then pulling the trigger by pretending to be a villain who conveniently allowed the Warrior of Light to get strong enough to defeat him?
What your comment reminded me of is that the only thing Meteion could affect was the ancients' creation magicks. Because of this, I find myself thinking that at least in part, those magicks must have involved some dynamis.
@@Tenkuu-san Their creation magicks were manifested through aether but they were shaped by the wielder's desire and will. That's why the Ancients were so rigorous about Concept creation and testing and storage, a big part of Hythlodaeus's job. The Ancients' inability to perceive or wield Dynamis left them wide open for Meteion to hijack their power through their emotions and make the creation magicks run wild.
Just watched an "Answers" reaction video today, and not only did *that* click for me, the first quest where you meet Hermes and Meteion, and the quest right before the dungeon in Elpis, are both lyrics from Answers as well
I forever love that moment of Venat summoning her blade as the crowd turns their back on her. She looked so distraught and disappointed, I really imagine it having been done on impulse, and her speech is her having to center herself to do what she promised to do. It felt like such a very vulnerable, human moment of Venat almost lashing out in frustration.
I think it's because in this instance, she was aware of what she had to do. She was blatantly told what the future held, and what would be required for time to flow unimpeded (unlike with the Exarch, where the timelines split off), which basically forced her hand. All the same, it seems she tried to reason with her people. To get them to change their course. I don't think she did that to be cruel or just to fill the time. I do believe that had they accepted her words, she might have actually refused to go ahead with the Sundering, consequences be damned. But when they turned their backs on her and beseeched Zodiark all the same, it awakened her to the reality of it all, and all at once she was reminded that this was how it had to be. That this was the only way. Hence the pain on her face when they reject her exhortations. The only excuse or rationale she might have had in her mind to not go through with it vanished. Things unfolded exactly as she was told, and the unbelievable tales she heard of her people becoming dependent on a "savior" that would resolve all their woes and allow them to live in blissful ignorance forevermore, were true. And with that, the likelihood of them sinking increasingly into depravity, with cultlike sacrificial rituals to feed His great power was no longer infinitesimal.
I felt the same when alisae attacked emet during shadowbringers. He looked disappointed and sad. Maybe he was really expecting it to be different this time, and he didnt kill anyone, just incapacitated
It's an awakening. She was told that she had sundered the world, but she really didn't understand why. In that moment, as the aincents call to Zodiark, and the camera pans to Venat's face, you can see her heart breaking with the realization. The people of her time would never be able to defeat despair. They would consistently reach for the easy answer. After all, the half of the population that believed most strongly in self-sacrifice, are already gone. She knows that those who remain will doom not only the people they plan on sacrificing in the future, but they would never have the fortitude to avoid the other existential dooms Meteion spoke of befalling other worlds. The aincent's power, and the paradise of their world, had in essence made them weak and fearful.
@@anaalvensleben789 I... don't hate that analogy. However, I see it more that she knew Zodiark was little more than a bandaid solution, while her people saw him as a crutch. She knew they would never be ready for the inevitable second final days if they spent the next 12 millennia leaning on Zodiark. But yes, there is a chance that she saw how willing the survivors were to keep sacrificing others to prolong their own lives and increase their own comforts, and foresaw how dark it would get. But at its core, I simply think she saw them being willing to keep sacrificing others and knew that was precisely what Hermes said would be a fail condition for the test of mankind. The people of her time simply could not pass the test as they were, and so she placed her hopes in the sundered people of the future.
“No hero wants to go on the journey, that’s what makes it a quest.” I really like that quote Kyle, I had never thought about it on such a simple, but profound scale of what makes a heroic journey.
@@BlackfangDragon Do you really think that Venat wants to split her people, stripping them of their lives like that? That is the journey they're talking about.
@@SparkShadow212 No, but she has always been a hero helping people around the world when they called for it. That’s what being Azem MEANT. The journey and the heroism were tied together. It’s why, grim though it is and an aweful atrocity she commits to save new life yet born, she can endure it. People she loves and wants to enjoy life just as she has even if she has to destroy her own people to make it happen.
@@BlackfangDragon Yeah but the actual hero's journey both WoL and Azem go on is not one either of them wanted, that's the point. Yes, both wanted to explore and seek challenges, maybe fight a few monsters. They didn't want to see their friends die, they didn't want their world teetering on the precipice of oblivion. Think about every major story arc in xiv - in most hero's stories in fact. Even if you start off wanting to go on a journey, the one you get is never the one you sought.
@@Junebug89 And there were always journeys where none of that happens and they’re just having fun doing heroics. Venat already knows this and has experienced it, that’s why she does what she does. She has had journeys that were fun and crazy just as she had ones that were sad and miserable, fighting opponents just for the thrill of fighting itself. They went out to do it for that reason just as much, and indeed that’s been a part of their motivation. Like Azem jumping into a Volcano to stop it from erupting. Something done just as much for the thrill of it as it was to help people.
First off, #FuckWarnerChappell Ok, onto the video, I think this section is a masterclass in recontexualization. They took a song and a theme from 10 years ago, having none, or almost none of this in sight, and built a masterful scene from it, applying it to a new set of circumstances. Actually, this is a masterclass in thematic storytelling. The theme of surviving inspite of hardship, of living, knowing that death is the reward, is a throughline for FF14. As for that recontexutaliztion, I see the first half of the song a conversation between the Ancients and Venat. The Ancients, begging to be freed of this 'senseless' suffering, suffering they didn't know, and wanting to be saved (Zodiark), and Venat pleading for them to be free, to let go of that past world. The second half becomes the Sundered and Hydaeyln. The sundered asking why did you do this to us, and Hydaelyn pleading with them to understand, to overcome the despair the anicents couldn't, to see their lives for what they are, short, but beautiful. On a personal reaction, I had just turned 40 when Endwalker came out. My husband and I consumed 6.0 over 4 fever days of gameplay. My mid life crisis was hitting HARD during this, and this scene especially, is the thing that still, it scares me, the best I can saw it. Quantifying a ongoing process of coming to terms with your mortality, and having a powerful scene asking you to keep walking, to keep finding your purpose of your life, your meaning, Endwalker hit me at the perfect time in my life to receive it.
Great comment and also would like to add that I too hit 40 near EW (but I'm a year older) and being in this time of your life it really makes you capable of receiving this message. To keep hoping even when death is certain. Isn't that really life, every single day? We can either cry ourselves to sleep about it - and some days, it feels like that's all we can do. Or, we can keep hoping and mark the way for those that come after. We mark the way because each of us, despite our mortality, has inherent value. Something Emet tried to convince us we never had. But it is something Venat believed in to her core.
Lots of things have been said about this cutscene and I don't know that I can offer much more that's new. I just recall letting out a muted "...oh..." when the scene snapcuts to you approaching Hades after Amaurot, juxtaposing and overlaying your mutual unwillingness to abandon your duty. And I had to get up and walk around for about fifteen minutes afterward, because there was so much going on in my head. Mostly, though, I want to say that Joanna Roth absolutely killed it with her voice work. This scene wouldn't have hit if she hadn't been able to carry her monologues.
Honestly I sat there for at least 15 minutes after it, tears streaming down my face. I don't even remember IF I was thinking. I just remember sitting there in silence staring and feeling. this scene is why I never give 10/10 for stuff, because every once and awhile something comes along and blows everything else out of the water.
One of my favourite details in the cutscene that I don't see brought up enough is how Venat's robe changes colour. Now yes obviously it's representing the suffering and deaths of millions along with her own grief. But Elpis explicitly tells us that in Amourotine culture, white robes are only worn in 2 cases. When one takes up the seat of Elidibus or when one has completed their duty and chosen not to return to the star. During the final sequence, Venat goes from without purpose to caked in the black of her purpose, her duty literally clings to her and weighs her down. If either of the guys mentioned this then awesome, not finished the whole video yet but wanted to note this down and hope someone else also appreciated this detail.
@thomasbardoux1692 shadowlands wasn't a retcon. It was the lore getting shit faced and tripping down a flight of stairs then throwing up all over itself.
@@spiritas5372 Legends say that to this day, Baine continues to just sit on his ass at camp, not far from the father he ever so dearly wants to talk to but just can't seem to.. well, get up and do.
I still like that they not only recontextualised "Answers", but also that the scene utilised another piece of music during Venat's talk with the zealous Ancients. Said piece of music is "From the Ashes" which previously only played during the second to last fight of the Coils of Bahamut against Phoenix. And I don't think I need to explain why that connection is fitting for what was about to happen.
Both YoshiP & Ishikawa admit that most of the lore they had for the Ascians in ARR, HW and SB was basically them “doing bad stuff in the background.” They made them into mysterious bad guys with little depth. Then during ShB this larger idea was developed with Emet and then further developed in EW as a combo story and Ishikawa used Answer lyrics to create a sense of why Hydealyn did what she did. It’s incredibly well written fill in with a bit of retcon sprinkled into it, to the point most do not notice it as such ❤.
I remembered there was an interview where Yoshida, Ishikawa and Bari Oda (I think the interview came out around post-Endwalker before 6.1 came out, give or take) were interviewed and they mentioned while they "locked" themselves in a hotel room brainstorming for Stormblood, that was when the ideas of how to conclude what basically became Endwalker came about. Before then, Answers were used by the head storywriters as their center point in the back of their heads when they wrote ARR and Heavensword. The development of FFXIV overtime is such an accomplishment of storytelling cuz you're dealing with not just one writer, but multiple, over the span of 10+ years to tell one epic journey.
It's the best kind of retcon where it recontextualizes everything it touches and instead of undoing things, transforms them with new meaning that feels like it was always there waiting to be uncovered. It's internally consistent. The math checks out.
@@cnkclark I think that's what I really like about it as well. The writers took what was already written and added to it creating this rich sense of history within the narrative. It's aligns with what Koji mentioned in that FFXIV documentary about creating the Calamity to connect the loose story of 1.0 with 2.0. Along with the events that players created like the Great Goobue Wall added to the history with the existence of that large goobue carcass to honor that event.
On a personal note I love the lyric from “Answers” about “Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after” because that’s the philosophy behind the game community, where veteran players are supposed to guide the sprouts in the game 🌱 ❤. This lyric has many meanings of course, but this one always tears me up bc of how this community has this as a foundation and even if it fails sometimes, it’s still for the most part present sentiment in game. ❤
I don't know if you realized this with the Answers lyrics as well... but at the start with the choir and her answering it's nearly the entirety of the ancient race asking these questions and her lone voice responding, a lone voice in a large crowd. Later in the song her voice takes the lead and the choir is now drowned out(after she has become Hydaelyn, Voice of the Star), now that she's the Voice of the Star her voice can finally be heard and people actually have to hear her. They wrote the story to fit Answers but damn did they make it fit 100%.
In late 2016, my dad was diagnosed with ALS. I became a caretaker for him. After he passed away in 2018, my mom was diagnosed with cancer and stuck around to look after her. She would pass away a couple of months before Endwalker released. With all of that happening in my life, I absolutely was not prepared for this cutscene when I experienced it for the first time. That entire last minute of Venat monologueing "To find the strength to continue, when all strength has left you" along with Answers playing in the background was just.... I dunno, man. It was like the game was reaching out to grab me by the shoulders and say "You will power through all of this, because you have to."
@@matthewchapman7301Cheers for the kind words! I'm in a pretty good headspace nowadays and truckin' right along. I was just kinda surprised back then to have a MMORPG of all things have some meaningful words to throw my way. It really shows off the heart and thoughtfulness of the writing team!
Not such dire circumstances for me, but that’s also what I got from this expansion. The core theme imo is finding the strength to carry on no matter what. No matter if it’s some trifling inconvenience, a great personal tragedy, insurmountable obstacles or the literal end of creation, you can overcome it if you can find the will to continue on. Given the events of 2020 and 2021, it was a very appropriate message
It's surreal sometimes, when these stories reach out to something deep in your core that you really REALLY needed to hear or see. G'raha's "Yours is a long road" speech cut me deep at the time. I'm glad you found the strength to keep walking forward, fellow Warrior of Light.
This was me but instead I lost 3 friends in 2017 (including my roommate who committed suicide) and then lost my dad to an accident at the end of 2018 right before Christmas. Those along with other things left me emotionally battered and broken and FF14 was one of the few things I had to help cope.
"Just a big string of middle fingers as she walks right by.." Oh my lord I chuckled so hard at that, and then the image of Venat flipping off Fandaniel omg
Trapping the Ascians in crystals was to stop them retreating to the interdimendional rift. Im pretty sure it doesn't stop theit soul from returning to the Aetherial Sea. The White Auricite was stated to not be capable of holding aether for long term.
Well, the Answer is even more layered then one think. There are at least four interpretations for that song that unreavel during the playthrough. 1. Obviously, as the main theme to ARR and the signifying event of 1.0 destruction by Bahamut this song alone is a ballad of the calamity. 2. The song could be an interpretation of the the final days of that sundered paradise. So basically as Venat herself said it: "Such is the lament of they who came befor. The song of they who tried to create a better world. A song of the end." 3. It is the song of the sundered people, actually hinting at the answer to lifes questions that was proposed originally by hermes and meteions quest. It reveals hydaelyns hidden plan in the lyrics. Through suffering, we (the sundered people) ask why we where born and what to life for, therefore finding the answer hermes and meteion seek. But, the most important interpretation: 4. It was revealed by Koji Fox in the FFXIV no-clip documentary that the ARR trailer and song were in parts inspired (or at least symbolises) the struggle of players and developer of 1.0 at the time. It was a bonding experiance and the tone and theme of Answers can be interpreted as the developers passion for the game and its players after its original failure. It is an outcry of hope for the future. This is probally the single most transformative piece of media I ever heard. A sign of a true masterpiece and the best of its art.
Amazing ending! As I said before, this cutscene was the epitome of what Garrett said before in 5.0 about how hard it is to make fire land. This cutscene isn't super 4k graphic wow, but that's not important, because the story took the time and paid it off.
"Igeyohrm, ...fisher" "I fukken hate you" This just made me laugh so hard. It's exchanges like this that keep me coming back specifically to you guys. It's just so heartwarming to see such good friendship on display. :) Great video overall of course, but this is the special ingredient. Thanks for sharing it with us
The worst part of the whole Warner Chapel copyright nonsense is SE has actually cleared everything legally with them for FFXIV videos and streams, but because they work on behalf of Uematsus record company they still blindly flag XIV content with his tracks.
And that's why UA-cam copyright claims should be done in the opposite way it is done today. Right now, I can claim any video on the platform saying 6s of music is mine, and it's up to the content creator to prove they are not stealing my content. Imagine if first you had to prove you own certain content, and only then the video would be taken down. Sure, big name corporations would also have this all preemptively ready to shoot on demand, but they would not be able to just "we believe this may be ours"
Said it before, saying it again: arguably one of the greatest cutscenes in the history of video games. Masterwork of animation, music, camerawork, use of characters, story, dialogue and synaesthesia.
absolutely, its easly the greatest cutscene in FF history, and one of the most emotional scenes I've ever seen, the whole thing is Shakespearean in nature, if anyone would have doubts about the artistic merits of video games, I'd show them this entire game, but most of all, after that, I'd show them this scene.
@@keithfilibeck2390 The whole "No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise" sequence is positively biblical. Definitely classical, given the whole Paradise Lost angle of the story and the fact that Hythlodaeus is literally (and literary) a major character in Thomas More's 'Utopia' whose name means 'Dispenser of Nonsense'.
Garrett called it a retrofit of Answers and I think that’s a perfect description. Taking a decade-old song and turning it into this cutscene is beyond amazing.
This cutscene will for me probably remain the greatest in this game and one of if not the greatest in all of gaming, I played through it in the first week and to this day I can not watch it with a dry eye. This is because outside of the fantastic story bits, the second part (post sunder) of the walk from the imagery to the lines used always strike me on a deeply personal level. This is because I suffer a neurological disorder that causes me to be in constant pain, on top of slowly taking away my ability to do the majority of things, often times leaving me feeling like I am alone and struggling to keep moving forward. So between Venats dialogue about suffering but keep moving on top of the imagery of the creeping darkness spreading over her slowly hampering and disabling her hits really close to home. And it has in some ways helps me to strengthen my resolve to keep moving forward in my own life. Also wanted to say I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey from "I will never play final fantasy" to here yall are awesome.
Iirc, the first summoning was half the ancients for Zodiark. The second summoning was half the remaining population to repair the world itself from the damage from the final days, and there was talk of a third, sacrificing all other lives on ethyris to being back the ancients, as they would then be able to use creation magic to repopulate the world again. It was between the second and thrid that Venats faction moved.
"Our souls have been torn" has been giving me chills since all of that was revealed in ShB.... I was FLOORED when they pulled the whole song into this.
"Thou must live, die and know" also fits way too well with the established rules for blotting out memories. But of course it likely fits so well because they are very good at looking at what has already been hinted or established and going from there.
This cutscene hit me hard (as did this whole expansion)as playing it in the middle of the pandemic and things were just so bleak IRL. I cried through the entire thing.
It was more impressive that they successfully retconned the song and ideas and made it work so wonderfully than if they had actually planned all of this in detail 11 years ago.
I love how perfectly Answers bookends this saga of FFXIV. We first heard it during the Fall of Dalamud, the destruction of 1.0 - the end of our beginning. Now, we hear it during the Final Days, as Venat makes her resolution and brings forth Hydaelyn to sunder the Ancients' world...the beginning of their end.
I adore the retrofit and how masterfully done it is. But the parallels between Venat and Lucifer, with how Venat being the entity taking away the 'bliss', eternal life and the wings to bear them to paradise from the ancients, but it being an act of love, just absolutely hooked me. It's a story and moment that will go with me throughout my life. Always happy to see your reactions and insights! Just wish I could help out more with a membership.
Venat isn't Lucifer -- if anything, her actions represent the judgment and mercy of God in response to the Fall. One of the strongest images -- Venat holding up her sword to perform the Sundering -- connects her with the Cherubim with the flaming sword that guards the gates to Eden. The other -- Venat covered in the filth of the Sundered world, suffering alongside the people who suffered as a result of her judgment -- connects her with Christ Crucified. If anyone's Lucifer, it's Hermes, whose over-identification with the plight of the beasts manifests into an entity of pure despair that seeks an end to all existence.
I think what really sells the cutscene is that Venat isn't a friend of her people, but she's the friend of her people's future. She had to reason with people who had JUST lost their loved ones - imagine how hard that has to be for anyone with ONE person alone, but she had to do it with hundreds. No matter how calm or reasonable her speech could've been, she was never going to reach the ears of the people, so she did the only thing she knew to do, make the best of an awful situation.
The toughest love - she knows what she has to do to give them a future at all, but it's an atrocity and she feels every moment of it, across all the millenia. She knows what she did was horrific, but the alternative was extinction. She held on to Hope even in the deepest darkness of her own actions.
I'm not sure Hermes was just sad about the creations. It was even more the fact that he felt like it was ONLY him who seemed to question it at all. He started to wonder if something was wrong with him, if everyone else seemed to think everything was perfect and great.
He was more distraught with the apathetic society like how everyone just didnt care the previous Fandaniel was going to die imo. I think most people gloss over that aspect
He woke up to the reality the others refused to face. All of them giving and taking life for no reason like it was a game. He became what is known as a tragic villain.
The funny thing is if you talk to other NPCs in the same zone, you find out he's absolutely not the only one with questions, doubts, or problems. He's just too self-absorbed to notice, and has convinced himself that everyone but him is happy.
This is why I hate Hermes. He may be a person to question why the Ancients treat life so indifferently, and at least “took action”, but everything beyond that is so rancid that it feels like him pursuing this question is the path his need for validation took.
@@hypercube8735 The biggest person is Venat. She agrees with him to a large degree. And like they say in the video, she demonstrates a better outcome for him from that state.
To address something you both expressed some confusion about: why the auracite is needed to permanently kill an Ascian. It's really only explained once when first introduced: the auracite traps them long enough for someone to hit them hard enough to actually kill their normally intangible form. When they're killed like this they do go to the Lifestream, they aren't stuck in the shards of the auracite.
This cutscene and all of Elpis was what made me think EW was just okay to “oh NOW I’m invested”. It also retroactively made Shadowbringers so much better aaah I can’t wait to replay SHB with the new graphics
I would like to make a point about all the stalling talk. I dont consider any of what you guys do as stalling, because you follow a schedule and do what you say you will do, thats just good planning and taking things slow. 'Stalling' is putting up a stream saying MSQ and then watching 5 hours of random videos after doing one quest like some certain people have done
Yup, their content has a clear consistency that feels planned and tested at this point. It has become so consistent, even with any inconsistency, that it shows me how much work and thought process goes into planning. It really is a job, and they enjoy working for the viewers. Sometimes, that does not get noticed, but as a designer in marketing, I can tell there is some good discipline behind their strategy, and I wish more people would notice.
would like to add. it irks me sometimes when streamers pause mid cutscene to theorize for minutes and minutes when their question will be answered if they just unpause it and let the cutscene finish so their way of finishing a quest then have a post cutscene analysis is way way better
my interpretation of the biggest fault of the ancients is that they did not know how to grieve. they lived in practically a perfect world. no hunger, no war, no homeless, no death. they might have been wrong to create life just to take it away but even hermes agrees that some creatures are too dangerous to allow to roam free, but that doesnt stop him from grieving these creatures. not only that, hermes grieved for the imminent loss of of the previous fandaniel, a thing usually joyioius in the ancient culture the ancients did not know how to grieve, opposed hermes' grief, not seeing a reason for it so when the world ended, when so many had to sacrifice themselves to save some... they did not know how to cope. the grief was so impossibly big that instead they refused to move forwards and instead kill countless people and creature to bring back people how had willingly given their life for others
Completely eclipses and surpasses any Final Fantasy. Challenges any story on any medium for the crown. Maybe not on its delivery, but certainly on its impact.
Same, it's like a franchise of movies and suddenly here's this long form series across multiple seasons where the writing and story just get better and better. It's downright unfair to compare other FF games to XIV. It's like comparing a summer blockbuster to Breaking Bad or The Wire.
12:40 What makes it more sad is that Hythbro puts on a smile for Emet as he says goodbye, but as you watch him turn around, he looks like he's about to cry.
I just saw the end of the video and seeing Kyle with shorts doing his big "The past was better bit" just had this nice homie feel to it. Like he is just mega vibing to all that FF14 is showing and having a blast just gushing about it.
Venat's memory is replayed to us the way actual memories are, edited down to a collection of sequential events. I believe whatever groundwork for the sundering was already laid before her confrontation and it was something she's been resisting pulling the trigger on until that moment. It also seemed to me it was the conclusion to a debate she's had with them many times before. It's such a great gaming moment for so many reasons, it's just unfortunate it can only be appreciated by those who have experienced the game to this point.
She knew it was going to happen, that she was going to HAVE to do it, but it had to be at the right time to align with the history we knew. Zodiark had to be in place and protecting the star, but the second sacrifice of lives never happened. I believe she was already Hydaelyn at this point, fully powered up and infused, but still in her human form. At the moment they invoked Zodiark the second time, she knew she had to strike. The moment we prepared her for was at hand and our future depended on it.
@@cnkclarkThird sacrifice, actually. Hydaelyn interceded before the third sacrifice. The first was to bring Zodiark into existence and thereby shield Etheirys from the Final Days. The second was to restore the ecosystem and environment. The third was to bring back the people they had lost in the first two sacrifices, and it was the point at which Venat and her allies protested.
There was suffering in Ellis and their paradise. They didn’t suffer but their creations did. That’s the thing that was eating away at Hermes and why he couldn’t be happy. He was the only one who saw it and was empathetic to and could not reconcile. It’s what the others were blind to and what lead to the road they all went down. That’s my interpretation of it. The ancients were selfish and self centered, Hermes was aware of the suffering and Venar took away that self righteousness of the ancients and brought them down to build up their hides and humble them.
In a very strange but real way, their society was a lot like a death cult. The most important thing was for people to do their job and then "return to the star" when they were done. Everyone you talk to alongside Venat thinks that it will be a very good thing when Venat finally decides to "return to the star". When you take out the flower language they're basically saying "Oh my goodness I can't wait until you die" in a non-sarcastic way because their entire society has made them believe that death is their final and most noble goal. It's actually quite dystopian upon further examination.
@@Rukdug by your analysis the difference between the ancients and the other societies metion found is quite polarizing. Everything the other societies did was to escape death and avoid it at all cost, and when they couldn’t they fell into despair when they realized it was inevitable. While the ancients embraced death and, as you said, looked forward to it. The only thing they feared was not finishing or fulfilling their duty before they died. When the status quo was disrupted they fell into desperate when they couldn’t indulge themselves in their work and fulfilling their destiny, returning to the star.
The idea the Ancients didn’t suffer isn’t true. Their society has its own problems and issues and there are even shown to be Ancients in Elpis who worry about even Familiars dying from lack of aether/food. Hermes himself actively ignores the pain and suffering of Creations so long as they aren’t the ones he’s concerned abiut(the giant beast killed numerous creations, OTHER Ancients wanted to honor the creations that died by the beasts hands). Even Emet in Elpis admits he is saddened when someone dies, but it’s not his place to tell them to not die on their own terms. But did their own thoughts and feelings consume them to the point that beings of extremely dense aether could change the Elpis flower? This was always why Hermes attempting to judge things using said flower was itself faulty process to judge and look down upon others, because he in fact refused to see if others had their own problems or also viewed familiars and creations as living beings. @Rukdug: The Real Problem is that the story doesn’t really do enough to handle the fact the Ancients are Immortal; and being immortal comes with a fundamental fact: Either you live forever and can’t die and spend eternity being miserable(which literally was what Emet-Selch does as a Paragon), you spend an eternity being miserable or angry like the dragons like Nidhogg/Tiamat/Hresvelgr do, or you chose to end your long life on your own terms so you aren’t consumed by ennui/despair. The fact that Reincarnation IS REAL doesn’t help this issue either, since it means they know they’ll be reborn again and live for tens of thousands of years. When you know that reincarnation is a thing of course you would chose to move on when your old, which is when Ancients give up their Seats on the Convocation since they might be immortal their bodies still grow old.
This is Hermes' misconception and not the reality, and we know this from the Elpis sidequests. There are those who have doubts about their methods, who operate differently from others. It is however possible to say that Hermes may not have had the luxury of wanting to change the standards of Elpis as the chief overseer of Elpis, that he perhaps felt obligated to maintain their methods. But then again, as the chief overseer, he did have the power to make those changes, or at least to bring them up, perhaps to the Convocation.
@@RukdugReturning to the star is not the most important thing in their society, but it is what they feel is their responsibility upon having lived an accomplished life. Returning to the star is their way of making way for the future generations. Because they are so long-lived, they realize that they can't simply remain forever, and in returning they also return their bountiful aether to the star. We all know how untenable life on our planet would be if no one ever died, and comparing their society to a death cult when they are simply perpetuating the cycle of life feels a bit disingenuous.
I often say that FFXIV has provided me a full range of human emotion. Joy, elation, anxiety, fear, despair, sadness, loss, rage, etc. I don't have a word to describe the heaviness I felt at the end of Live Die and Know; it sparked an emotion I don't have a name for.
Music played during the crowd summoning Zodiak was a phenix theme from one of the raids in coil. I vividly remember watching the patch trailer for it and being amazed by the theme when I first heard it. The theme stood out from all and it felt special. At the time, I don't know why it did.
Reason, or the future. It's the point where they choose blissful stagnation over the chance to grow as people. Stronger, wiser, more capable of weathering hardships, and more knowledgeable about reality.
That's the true moment of the Sundering. The battle is not Hydaelyn versus Zodiark - it's Venat versus her people's refusal to give up their lost Paradise.
I see as Venat opens Pandora's box, having humankind feel all the pain and torment but that gives people the strength to find Hope amongst all despair.
one cannot deny Venat's conviction, and her resolve, its absolute, its inhuman, and cements her as one of the only Gods in FF's entire multiverse to ACT Godly, to truly be an ideal, even if she is actually mortal at her core, her resolve to save humanity and bring hope the hopeless, is pristine, perfect, divine.
Most FF gods end up being basically monsters with godlike power, while Venat's core of unbreakable Humanity lets her wield godlike power in a way that feels like a genuine protector deity that cares for life and human dignity.
@@cnkclark It let her defeat a God far stronger than herself, and make an impossible dream come true, to save the Universe from the very concept of Despair, through her Avatar, and her inspiration.
8:35 This right here is why I have so much love for EW; it makes SHB hit even harder when you go back and look through it (and probably contributes to the sheer numbers that streamers finishing 5.0 tend to get). There are tons of little details and hints that went right over my head until I watched you guys played through it, and it made me fall in love with this game all over again. So glad y'all are finally here!
The true best thing I could ever say about these moments, after every step you have taken on your journey, is that in this, there are ten thousand things to be able to unpack. Answer works so well, because there is just so much to open, to connect, and to reexperience. Hear, Think, Feel. Just live. If I could pick just one thing that FFXIV has done more than any other Media piece I have ever seen in my life, is that it takes your experiences, good and bad, and gives them depth in such a fascinating way. The writers, artists, songwriters, and whole production team hit upon the simple and powerful magic of being able to fill out so much, from so little. Truly a Realm Reborn.
"No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk." Like being thrown out of the Garden of Eden, yet still not learning your lesson.
Still, that it took eons and the fact that the Warrior of Light was an incarnation of Azem… The friends that support the Warrior of Light are better representations for they prove the teamwork and resilience necessary that the Amaroutines never had.
Been avoiding FF14 content for a while now, I can't even bring myself to play the game after some bad IRL stuff went down despite how much I love it to death, but I had to click and see your discussion about this. It's absolutely one of my favourite moments in the entire story and cements Elpis as one of, if not my favourite arc in the game. Back to digging my head underground and avoiding every memory of the game while I heal, but I'll resurface to watch your Endwalker climax vid when that drops. Hope you all have a fantastic time with it!
This cutscene is one of 3 pieces of media that have ever made me cry in my adult life. Everything, Everywhere, All at Once when watching with my mom. And then Urianger's cutscene with Moenbryda's parents.
You don't need to feel guilt over the pokeball'd Ascians. They aren't trapped in Auracites forever. The purpose of the Auracite is just to soul trap them from immediately ditching their physical bodies, to return to their little pocket dimension and possess someone else later. Instead it traps them in a form we can then truly destroy. Urianger and Moenbryda even mention back in ARR that Auracite itself is a temporary thing, it can contain vast amounts of Aether but only temporarily. The reason we smash them with a "Blade of Light" is just to truly "kill" their de-bodied souls, and force them to return to the Aetherial Sea. Normally Ascian souls have the power to decide, NOT to return upon death. We just force them to follow the circle of life.
I never noticed before but I really like the way they show her sword falling from her hand and hitting the ground - still solid yet seperated from her and left behind. It coincides with the first hit she takes that begins to weaken her, like the first rejoining attempt of the 13th. Emet's powerpoint presentation in ShB showed it still exists but is a useless voidy shard, so it was essentially like the sword that was seperated from her, still existing albeit useless and therefore weakening her power. Given all the emphasis we see in Elpis cutscenes of how their weapons are summoned and then turned back into aether when they are discarded, it stood out that this time it didn't poof into aether, but remained solid. I have no idea if it was intentional or coincidence, but I just thought it was a cool link.
every time i see this scene i'm reminded of how Endwalker really helped me get through a difficult time. just everything about this scene, the way it deals with existential dread and fear of the future, but also hope, and love for the world, other people, and existence itself. i'm so happy you guys got to this part, no matter how you received it, but i'm really hyped you ended up enjoying it!
I can't describe how profound this entire scene is to me. I have watched it dozens of times and it makes me emotional every single time. The way they tied Answers, one of my favorite songs in the game before that point, into the overall story I feel has never been done in this way before, let alone so well. I could gush about this story and how much it means to me for hours.
I love how this cutscene needed its own video. I literally had to stop playing for the day once I saw this, I just had to lay down and let that all sink in (granted I did the entirety of Elpis in a single day). It is currently my favorite cutscene in the entire game. And yes a lot of it has to do with the fact it plays my favorite song in the entire game (Answers)
I still remembered when endwalker launch trailer was released, while it had some voice-line from this scene and some random scene mix&match in it, it didn't mention anything about Elpis, this scene in details, or anything beyond this point. they just made that it was Zodiark as final boss all along and that's it. CBU3 was such a misleading troll xD
There's a voiceline in the trailer from this scene, "...there must be a way to restore things to the way they were. To reclaim the perfect paradise we once had." that is played over scenes of Fandanial that had me actually believing he might have had a secret motivation to bringing the Final Days again. I was right... just not in the way I thought. As spoilery as any trailer released beforehand can be, I love the way the expectations were set that the Final Days were simply a backdrop for a Hydaelyn vs Zodiark vs WoL finale, when in reality the context of Elpis changes everything (plus an early Zodiark fight for good measure).
There was never any implication that Zodiark was the final boss even back then, but more to the point, Zodiark is literally a savior to the star, this had been made clear since Shadowbringers. Thus, there was never any way that Zodiark would be a primary opponent no matter how you looked at it if you truly understood his role in the story, because while he is the Ascians' god, he was also never truly a villain. What people found interesting, if anything, was that the trailer contained shots from Venat's recollection of the original Final Days, so we wondered how that would tie in to the story.
I have such a viseral reaction to Answers. From watching a game I could barely play close down the servers with a promise of a new beginning. To Elidibus forcing me to rewalk my entire journey. To it being completely recontextualized by The Walk. It's such a good example of how you can make a retcon framed less as 'Hey I got a better idea later forget what you knew this is what it is now' and more of 'Hey, you didn't have all the information so your perception was flawed'. Good freaking stuff.
One thing that I’m not sure if people mentioned or not, but I was kind of reminded because it was brought up is that in Japanese all stars/planets that are not Earth or its sun have a single word that they use for it. This is most likely why Eorzea is never referred to as a planet. They do the same thing in Final Fantasy 7.
"Answers" has been in this game from the beginning and more or less had four different life cycles and interpretation 1: A curious an open-ended question of the quest of a new MMO 2: A lament of the state of the game (the 1.0 cycle) 3: A capstone to finalize the end of a broken world. (The fall of Dalamud/final cutscene of 1.0.) 4: This epic, epic moment, contextualizing the entire saga of the Hydaelyn/Zodiark series. Each time it is used it contextualizes beginnings and ends. Their use of it here is a master class of drawing meaning in ambiguity and I am HERE FOR IT.
Been binging all of your videos the past week- even watching your stuff out of order has been great! I remember seeing you guys way back during the WOW exodus and writing you guys off. MAN i regret that. seeing the journey in real time wouldve been a blast
I love it when Kyle just goes off on a tangent, makes a lot of sense in what he's trying to say but also confusing everyone at the same time, and Garrett has to rein him back in.
I may have said this to you guys before, but it's my personal headcannon is that Venat's cutscene IS a memory. Rather, it's her memory of events from a perspective set thousands of years in the future. It explains why events appear so compressed; Venat/Hydaelyn remembers all these events happening back to back because all the events that happened between them are either forgotten or not associated with these events. Some events like her arguing her case to the people are likely a composite, multiple arguments summarized into a single exchange.
Now compare the lyrics of Answers to the events of the story. "Death has passed his judgement" can be interpreted as Hades judging the sundered unfit, for instance.
Ten years ago, Answers was my entry drug to ffxiv, to hear this at the very end of it all floored me, I had to take a break to just sit in my garden, and bawled my eyes out
One thing not mentioned that I love about the scene with Emet is that that's The Moment for Emet. The moment that he's forever stuck in, that he can't move on from. Where Hythlodaeus walks into the past to become a part of Zodiark and Venat walks into the future to become Hydaline.
One of my favorite mind exercises is to imagine if Venat was just another imagination-less Ascian. What if after their time as Azim they just peaced out like most other Azims? They decided to stick around and because of that we had the only ancient with enough conviction to be a foil to Zodiark, who seems to have been at best a bandaid to what Meteion is trying to bring. Imagine being given the greatest position of power among a people that were the highest of powers, and not yet realizing why it never felt right, only to realize that your true purpose had still been unfulfilled. And that purpose? Was unvearable sadness, pain, and loss. Tragic. Beautiful.
What's throwing ya'll off at the beginning is that there are FOUR versions of Answers. 1. The version that plays in the ARR cinematic/end of an era. 2. The longer one in the OST, also used in THAT cutscene. 3. Answers Reprise. Used in the end of the 1.0 cutscene with the goobbue. This version is also used during The Rising each year. 4. Dalamud Answers. Only used during the Final Days of 1.x. It's actually pretty terrifying to listen to when you put your mind in that time period where the Warriors of Light did everything right and still, still it came to this.
That cutscene destroyed me, I just sat there in my chair and cried for at least 30.minutes. I have been through so much in my life at that point. I think alot of us been through alot. But still we have pushed on
I think the reason you know the story as "Hydalyn and Zodiark fought and Hydalyn wasn't strong enough to kill him so she had to sunder the world" is because it was Emet who told you about it. He told you the way he knew, from the peoples' perspective it must have seemed like Hydalyn was against Zodiark in the first place while WE know - as well as Venat - that he was needed to maintain the protective aether layer till the WOL was ready. History is always about interpreting the facts we can gather but most of the times you don't have all of them and need to make assumptions. The gathering tribe quests from ShB are actually an interesting way to play with that.
SPOILERS Hydaelyn admits it was true. Despite everything she tried to fight Zodiark, who wasn’t even as max ability since his Heart Elidibus separated to try to reconcile between Venats faction and Zodiarks followers. Despite lacking his heart Zodiark was too powerful for Hydaelyn to beat, so she did the option she knew would work.
Emet-Selch said from the very first cutscene in Qitana that Hydaelyn was created to serve as Zodiark's shackles though. There was never any intent to kill Zodiark, only defeat him.
all those people who now the details better than me :P But I stand by my words as she also said she would "sunder from temptation to turn back" and this sounds like it was her plan all along. So I think it might be a bit of interpretation or inconsistency in the writing. Not that it really matters :D I enjoyed the story!
@@KassilpheYou're right, it is explicitly sundering, but that means that Zodiark was not killed, merely weakened and sealed away. Venat understood the necessity of keeping Zodiark around in order to maintain the world's order in the face of the Final Days.
Moen actually shows up in a way in the ethereal sea. (The Aitiascope dungeon). You see her soul represented as her axe and if I recall correctly it gives you a buff if you stand in it. Nabriales's soul is just fine and most likely in the life stream. White acuacite just traps them so they are unable to teleport away. We then have to hit acians with a substantial amount of aether to kill them completely. Which is why Moen gave her life force/aether to the white beam coming from tupsimati to kill Nabriales. So he's technically dead and in the life stream and not trapped in the auracite. That's how I understand it anyway. I could be wrong. Someone is welcomed to fact check me cuz I also want to know if my understanding is correct.
Thou must live, die and know.... A powerful line that didn't really make sense until we learn that upon returning to the Star all memories are returned, or at least that potential, the line just becomes exponentially more powerful thinking of Emet's aether bobbing away going 'A fuck, that little shit was right all along!'
You know... one thing i dont see talked about enough with this scene is simply its parallels with reality. I see everyone discuss the storyline but what always steuck me the hardest was how this scene and this storyline bleeds into the reality we all live in. Real life sucks. Its horribly painful and the sheer amount of suffering in the world is insane. You always hear people ask "if there really is a God why would they allow for disease and for people to die horribly and suffer?". And this story really answers that. Whether you are a believer in religion or not everyone questions why we are born just to die and the meaning of it all. The lyrics from Answers even mentions this with "Tell us why, given Life, we are meant to die, helpless in our cries?". And the story of Venat, knowing the answer ti that question, knows its not an easy answer to accept. Everyone finds it hard to accept the suffering and pain and agony and death in the world. But its an unfortunate necessity of life. Sorrow and pain will never go away. Everyone experiences it in once way or another and at varying degrees of intensity. But if there was no dispair and pain then joy and happiness would be far less fulfilling. Doing something that makes you happy gives you a specific feeling of joy. But to feel joy after experiencing sorrow... that has a very special feeling to it. It feels so much sweeter and brighter and warmer! Joy without sadness is monotony. It isnt anything special. It becomes so commonplace and ordinary. Joy after suffering can bring you to tears and be so relieving and blissful. The stronger the dispair the stronger the joy and vice versa. This story plays such a deeper role than just simple story telling and plot. Its motivational. Its reassuring. Its validating. Its saying to every person playing it that this is a part of life and if it was easy to get to paradise you would hardly appreciate it as much as you would if you had to go the hard way and walk. With darkness there is light. Both sides of the same coin (like our Warriors of Light being the Warriors of Darkness). And we suffer in life to ensure that our future and the future beyond us becomes less and less unbearable. "To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow." To bear the pain and learn from it so we can entrust the future will be in better hands. I think this is a lesson everyone can benefit from learning and should you follow a religion or not, if you imagine Venat as a symbolism for a God or the creator of man, this is the answer to "why would God let us suffer if they are so powerful?". To teach us to be strong. To continue on when you feel like you cannot take another step. That there is Light in the world but to fully appreciate it you have to do it the hard way. I wish more people talked about this side of things because its all i tend to think of when seeing this scene.
Honestly I think I kinda prefer it this way - it's a spiritual miasma, a mire of plague and doubt, the black essence of the suffering she wrought on all living souls and that she takes unto herself as the spirit of the land itself.
Me: "I know I've been coughing pretty bad for days, and that laughing leads to pain, but I can probably get away with this video, right? It's about *that* cutscene, so it can't be *too* funny..." I would like "Igeyorhm...fishing." on my tombstone.🤣
For the white auricite, if I'm recalling the dialogue from ARR correctly, it was less about encapsulating the soul so it could be destroyed, and more about preventing them from simply bamfing back to the "shore" of the aetherial sea to avoid death. It acted more like anchor than a jail cell, keeping them in the material world long enough for our massive blast of aether (our "blade of light") to sever the tie of their soul to this reality and force it back into the lifestream proper-like.
so to say this in now context: zodiark doesn't want more souls. the ancients keep using him and sacrificing souls in order to power him. he is a god machine and they keep giving him fuel to run. he isn't asking for it.
Zodiark is a tool without any real will of his own. This is one of the reasons why I'm always puzzled when people try to villainize him, the other being that no matter what perspective you look at it from, he is literally the savior of the star, the one who halted the Final Days. This is why that quest on the moon titled The Martyr in English is, in Japanese, called "The Hero Who Saved the Star".
28:25 Zodiark was already summoned, those guys were going to offer the other half of the population to bring back the first batch that sacrificed themselves for it's summoning
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"Henceforth he shall WALK."
Venat had the longest walk of all.
And it's the weight of her burden that destroyed me in this cutscene 🥲
@@SventFulgurnot to mention the reflection of our own struggles
😢
@@Montyandrew45 Look to those who walked before, to lead those who walk after.
@@SventFulgur It's the light in her eyes DESPITE that burden that destroys me still. 😭
Something I rarely see people point out or notice is the Ancients saying, "It will be ours again - a world free of sorrow," and how it's a callback to Elidibus in 5.3 saying, "My heart's sole desire is a world free of sorrow," because he's the embodiment of all the hopes and prayers of those within Zodiark. :')
In an interview after 6.0 was released, Yoshi P did reveal that they used the lyrics of Answers as inspiration for the plot of Endwalker. so this scene is very much what the entire thing revolves around.
@35:00 That whole cutscene's purpose, I think, was to explain to you WHY exactly she sundered the star. Heck, at the very beginning of Endwalker, you have the option to tell Venat that you no longer trust her after the events of Shadowbringers. So it was clear the developers knew that players were still, even after all of this, wavering on what they thought of Venat. There would still be players out there who were on the fence about how they feel about Venat, some might even still harbor grudge against her for sundering the world. I think they saw a necessity in showing the player her mentality behind sundering the world, and why it was necessary: To create a race of people who knew how to fight despair, who had tasted enough despair to become hardened to it, to, as Elidibus put it, "fight, kicking and screaming, until their last breath is spent". Because that's the kind of thing you NEED to be able to fight Meteion. She knew the ancients, with their Rose-Colored Glasses would never, ever, Ever succeed. They had a 0% chance. They had power, but no resolve. All the aether in the world wouldn't protect them from feeling despair, something they were wholly incapable of dealing with because they had been spoiled pansies for so long.
This is the best explanation ive ever seen about the sundering. Really apreciate. Loved your take and i think i agre 100%
"No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth he shall walk" - "Like broken angels, wingless, cast from heaven's gates, we only fly when falling, falling far from grace", there's a lot of parallells to To The End here.
to the edge.
In one cutscene did Ishikawa not only completely redeem Hydaelyn (while leaving her actions morally gray) as a character, but also properly contextualized why the Ascians curse her name at every opportunity.
_Imagine_ being one of the Ancients who lost their loved ones to Zodiark, and you are praying on your knees for them to be brought back, only for _that lady_ to show up and say "No, you're wrong" and then she destroys the world. Of course they despise her, particularly the nostalgic and unstable Unsundered Paragons.
Emets story event in Nier Reincarnation shows even more just how much they would despise her as well. The visual of how the original Unsundered, depicted solely via aether, deformed and mutilated as the narration tells of how they speak only in incomprehensible gibberish, and how by proxy the entire species devolved into cave dwellers who had to re-evolved across generations and how the horrific sight informed their decisions.
Then later contrasted with aether retaking a normal human shape, and their inability to see the current people as people.
@@BlackfangDragonIt was even more than that: his soul sight allowed him to see how faded the sundered's souls were, and in the tale Through His Eyes, we saw that it was a natural instinct for him to perceive the aether around him, and that he saw even the souls of those 7 times rejoined as "a guttering candle" and "a sickly glow" compared to the "brilliant shine" of an unsundered's soul. He was repulsed by our souls, and we know from Shadowbringers how much that sight angered him as well.
@@Tenkuu-sanI think it was part anger and part angry-to-avoid-crushing-sorrow. We know it was Emet that secretly crafted Azem's Crystal, in defiance of the decision of the Convocation, and he specifically referred to Azem as one of his dearest companions in the dialogue we hear when we are given the crystal by the reconstituted Hyltho. So seeing _us,_ the shattered remains of the soul of one of his dearest companions, a fraction of our "former glory", from his perspective, must have been crushing to his soul. A reminder of the others he'd lost, like Hythlo.
I wonder, if at the point Emet-Selch saw WoL/Azem shard, if he secretly gave up seeing incontrovertible proof that his world is irrecoverable? And him doing the song and dance in Shadowbringers is him preparing his grave, then pulling the trigger by pretending to be a villain who conveniently allowed the Warrior of Light to get strong enough to defeat him?
(This does parallel G’raha very badly pretending he was a Sephiroth-like villain, btw.)
Given what we know of creation magics and how their magic was warped by despair, “where resignation rots the trees” is so poetic and poignant
Also just a flowery way to say "To lose hope is to embrace death".
Oooh that’s a cool interpretation.
Everything they created in joy and ambition, now being destroyed by their same power in misery and despair.
What your comment reminded me of is that the only thing Meteion could affect was the ancients' creation magicks. Because of this, I find myself thinking that at least in part, those magicks must have involved some dynamis.
@@Tenkuu-san Their creation magicks were manifested through aether but they were shaped by the wielder's desire and will. That's why the Ancients were so rigorous about Concept creation and testing and storage, a big part of Hythlodaeus's job. The Ancients' inability to perceive or wield Dynamis left them wide open for Meteion to hijack their power through their emotions and make the creation magicks run wild.
There's a reason why the last Elpis quest is titled "Thou Must Live, Die, And Know".
went "oh shit" when i saw the quest title
Just watched an "Answers" reaction video today, and not only did *that* click for me, the first quest where you meet Hermes and Meteion, and the quest right before the dungeon in Elpis, are both lyrics from Answers as well
I forever love that moment of Venat summoning her blade as the crowd turns their back on her. She looked so distraught and disappointed, I really imagine it having been done on impulse, and her speech is her having to center herself to do what she promised to do. It felt like such a very vulnerable, human moment of Venat almost lashing out in frustration.
I think it's because in this instance, she was aware of what she had to do. She was blatantly told what the future held, and what would be required for time to flow unimpeded (unlike with the Exarch, where the timelines split off), which basically forced her hand. All the same, it seems she tried to reason with her people. To get them to change their course. I don't think she did that to be cruel or just to fill the time. I do believe that had they accepted her words, she might have actually refused to go ahead with the Sundering, consequences be damned.
But when they turned their backs on her and beseeched Zodiark all the same, it awakened her to the reality of it all, and all at once she was reminded that this was how it had to be. That this was the only way. Hence the pain on her face when they reject her exhortations. The only excuse or rationale she might have had in her mind to not go through with it vanished. Things unfolded exactly as she was told, and the unbelievable tales she heard of her people becoming dependent on a "savior" that would resolve all their woes and allow them to live in blissful ignorance forevermore, were true. And with that, the likelihood of them sinking increasingly into depravity, with cultlike sacrificial rituals to feed His great power was no longer infinitesimal.
I felt the same when alisae attacked emet during shadowbringers. He looked disappointed and sad. Maybe he was really expecting it to be different this time, and he didnt kill anyone, just incapacitated
It's an awakening. She was told that she had sundered the world, but she really didn't understand why. In that moment, as the aincents call to Zodiark, and the camera pans to Venat's face, you can see her heart breaking with the realization.
The people of her time would never be able to defeat despair. They would consistently reach for the easy answer. After all, the half of the population that believed most strongly in self-sacrifice, are already gone. She knows that those who remain will doom not only the people they plan on sacrificing in the future, but they would never have the fortitude to avoid the other existential dooms Meteion spoke of befalling other worlds. The aincent's power, and the paradise of their world, had in essence made them weak and fearful.
@ So you're saying she basically saw WH40k and the Aeldari empire pre-Slaanesh coming FF14 style and said 'fuck that shit?'
@@anaalvensleben789 I... don't hate that analogy. However, I see it more that she knew Zodiark was little more than a bandaid solution, while her people saw him as a crutch. She knew they would never be ready for the inevitable second final days if they spent the next 12 millennia leaning on Zodiark.
But yes, there is a chance that she saw how willing the survivors were to keep sacrificing others to prolong their own lives and increase their own comforts, and foresaw how dark it would get.
But at its core, I simply think she saw them being willing to keep sacrificing others and knew that was precisely what Hermes said would be a fail condition for the test of mankind.
The people of her time simply could not pass the test as they were, and so she placed her hopes in the sundered people of the future.
“No hero wants to go on the journey, that’s what makes it a quest.” I really like that quote Kyle, I had never thought about it on such a simple, but profound scale of what makes a heroic journey.
Which doesn’t describe Venat or WOL at all. For them they love the journey and being a hero.
@@BlackfangDragon Do you really think that Venat wants to split her people, stripping them of their lives like that? That is the journey they're talking about.
@@SparkShadow212 No, but she has always been a hero helping people around the world when they called for it. That’s what being Azem MEANT. The journey and the heroism were tied together.
It’s why, grim though it is and an aweful atrocity she commits to save new life yet born, she can endure it. People she loves and wants to enjoy life just as she has even if she has to destroy her own people to make it happen.
@@BlackfangDragon Yeah but the actual hero's journey both WoL and Azem go on is not one either of them wanted, that's the point. Yes, both wanted to explore and seek challenges, maybe fight a few monsters. They didn't want to see their friends die, they didn't want their world teetering on the precipice of oblivion. Think about every major story arc in xiv - in most hero's stories in fact. Even if you start off wanting to go on a journey, the one you get is never the one you sought.
@@Junebug89 And there were always journeys where none of that happens and they’re just having fun doing heroics. Venat already knows this and has experienced it, that’s why she does what she does. She has had journeys that were fun and crazy just as she had ones that were sad and miserable, fighting opponents just for the thrill of fighting itself. They went out to do it for that reason just as much, and indeed that’s been a part of their motivation.
Like Azem jumping into a Volcano to stop it from erupting. Something done just as much for the thrill of it as it was to help people.
First off, #FuckWarnerChappell
Ok, onto the video, I think this section is a masterclass in recontexualization. They took a song and a theme from 10 years ago, having none, or almost none of this in sight, and built a masterful scene from it, applying it to a new set of circumstances. Actually, this is a masterclass in thematic storytelling. The theme of surviving inspite of hardship, of living, knowing that death is the reward, is a throughline for FF14.
As for that recontexutaliztion, I see the first half of the song a conversation between the Ancients and Venat. The Ancients, begging to be freed of this 'senseless' suffering, suffering they didn't know, and wanting to be saved (Zodiark), and Venat pleading for them to be free, to let go of that past world. The second half becomes the Sundered and Hydaeyln. The sundered asking why did you do this to us, and Hydaelyn pleading with them to understand, to overcome the despair the anicents couldn't, to see their lives for what they are, short, but beautiful.
On a personal reaction, I had just turned 40 when Endwalker came out. My husband and I consumed 6.0 over 4 fever days of gameplay. My mid life crisis was hitting HARD during this, and this scene especially, is the thing that still, it scares me, the best I can saw it. Quantifying a ongoing process of coming to terms with your mortality, and having a powerful scene asking you to keep walking, to keep finding your purpose of your life, your meaning, Endwalker hit me at the perfect time in my life to receive it.
Great comment and also would like to add that I too hit 40 near EW (but I'm a year older) and being in this time of your life it really makes you capable of receiving this message. To keep hoping even when death is certain. Isn't that really life, every single day? We can either cry ourselves to sleep about it - and some days, it feels like that's all we can do. Or, we can keep hoping and mark the way for those that come after. We mark the way because each of us, despite our mortality, has inherent value. Something Emet tried to convince us we never had. But it is something Venat believed in to her core.
Lots of things have been said about this cutscene and I don't know that I can offer much more that's new. I just recall letting out a muted "...oh..." when the scene snapcuts to you approaching Hades after Amaurot, juxtaposing and overlaying your mutual unwillingness to abandon your duty. And I had to get up and walk around for about fifteen minutes afterward, because there was so much going on in my head.
Mostly, though, I want to say that Joanna Roth absolutely killed it with her voice work. This scene wouldn't have hit if she hadn't been able to carry her monologues.
Honestly I sat there for at least 15 minutes after it, tears streaming down my face. I don't even remember IF I was thinking.
I just remember sitting there in silence staring and feeling.
this scene is why I never give 10/10 for stuff, because every once and awhile something comes along and blows everything else out of the water.
To transform such an iconic piece of media was ballsy and risky. They pulled it off spectacularly.
One of my favourite details in the cutscene that I don't see brought up enough is how Venat's robe changes colour.
Now yes obviously it's representing the suffering and deaths of millions along with her own grief. But Elpis explicitly tells us that in Amourotine culture, white robes are only worn in 2 cases.
When one takes up the seat of Elidibus or when one has completed their duty and chosen not to return to the star.
During the final sequence, Venat goes from without purpose to caked in the black of her purpose, her duty literally clings to her and weighs her down.
If either of the guys mentioned this then awesome, not finished the whole video yet but wanted to note this down and hope someone else also appreciated this detail.
Oooh that's a cool read on it. May or may not be true, but still cool.
Good retcons we call recontextualizations, bad retcons we call Warlords of Draenor
Good point, but you misspelled "shadowlands"
@thomasbardoux1692 shadowlands wasn't a retcon. It was the lore getting shit faced and tripping down a flight of stairs then throwing up all over itself.
@@spiritas5372 Legends say that to this day, Baine continues to just sit on his ass at camp, not far from the father he ever so dearly wants to talk to but just can't seem to.. well, get up and do.
@@InsanityReborn that pretty much sums up why I play ff14 instead of wow now in a nutshell.
I still like that they not only recontextualised "Answers", but also that the scene utilised another piece of music during Venat's talk with the zealous Ancients. Said piece of music is "From the Ashes" which previously only played during the second to last fight of the Coils of Bahamut against Phoenix. And I don't think I need to explain why that connection is fitting for what was about to happen.
Both YoshiP & Ishikawa admit that most of the lore they had for the Ascians in ARR, HW and SB was basically them “doing bad stuff in the background.” They made them into mysterious bad guys with little depth.
Then during ShB this larger idea was developed with Emet and then further developed in EW as a combo story and Ishikawa used Answer lyrics to create a sense of why Hydealyn did what she did. It’s incredibly well written fill in with a bit of retcon sprinkled into it, to the point most do not notice it as such ❤.
I remembered there was an interview where Yoshida, Ishikawa and Bari Oda (I think the interview came out around post-Endwalker before 6.1 came out, give or take) were interviewed and they mentioned while they "locked" themselves in a hotel room brainstorming for Stormblood, that was when the ideas of how to conclude what basically became Endwalker came about. Before then, Answers were used by the head storywriters as their center point in the back of their heads when they wrote ARR and Heavensword. The development of FFXIV overtime is such an accomplishment of storytelling cuz you're dealing with not just one writer, but multiple, over the span of 10+ years to tell one epic journey.
It's the best kind of retcon where it recontextualizes everything it touches and instead of undoing things, transforms them with new meaning that feels like it was always there waiting to be uncovered. It's internally consistent. The math checks out.
Yes they took the ball and ran 100 yards to score the touchdown. 😆
@@cnkclark I think that's what I really like about it as well. The writers took what was already written and added to it creating this rich sense of history within the narrative. It's aligns with what Koji mentioned in that FFXIV documentary about creating the Calamity to connect the loose story of 1.0 with 2.0. Along with the events that players created like the Great Goobue Wall added to the history with the existence of that large goobue carcass to honor that event.
On a personal note I love the lyric from “Answers” about “Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after”
because that’s the philosophy behind the game community, where veteran players are supposed to guide the sprouts in the game 🌱 ❤.
This lyric has many meanings of course, but this one always tears me up bc of how this community has this as a foundation and even if it fails sometimes, it’s still for the most part present sentiment in game. ❤
Oh Warriors of Light, are you prepared, to meet the end?
No.
Your end. No life left to live. No fight left to fight. *cackles*
YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!!!!!
I don't know if you realized this with the Answers lyrics as well... but at the start with the choir and her answering it's nearly the entirety of the ancient race asking these questions and her lone voice responding, a lone voice in a large crowd. Later in the song her voice takes the lead and the choir is now drowned out(after she has become Hydaelyn, Voice of the Star), now that she's the Voice of the Star her voice can finally be heard and people actually have to hear her. They wrote the story to fit Answers but damn did they make it fit 100%.
In late 2016, my dad was diagnosed with ALS. I became a caretaker for him. After he passed away in 2018, my mom was diagnosed with cancer and stuck around to look after her. She would pass away a couple of months before Endwalker released.
With all of that happening in my life, I absolutely was not prepared for this cutscene when I experienced it for the first time. That entire last minute of Venat monologueing "To find the strength to continue, when all strength has left you" along with Answers playing in the background was just.... I dunno, man. It was like the game was reaching out to grab me by the shoulders and say "You will power through all of this, because you have to."
Random stranger on the internet just here to say: I’m sorry about what happened to you and I’m glad found the strength to keep going
@@matthewchapman7301Cheers for the kind words! I'm in a pretty good headspace nowadays and truckin' right along. I was just kinda surprised back then to have a MMORPG of all things have some meaningful words to throw my way. It really shows off the heart and thoughtfulness of the writing team!
Not such dire circumstances for me, but that’s also what I got from this expansion. The core theme imo is finding the strength to carry on no matter what. No matter if it’s some trifling inconvenience, a great personal tragedy, insurmountable obstacles or the literal end of creation, you can overcome it if you can find the will to continue on. Given the events of 2020 and 2021, it was a very appropriate message
It's surreal sometimes, when these stories reach out to something deep in your core that you really REALLY needed to hear or see. G'raha's "Yours is a long road" speech cut me deep at the time.
I'm glad you found the strength to keep walking forward, fellow Warrior of Light.
This was me but instead I lost 3 friends in 2017 (including my roommate who committed suicide) and then lost my dad to an accident at the end of 2018 right before Christmas. Those along with other things left me emotionally battered and broken and FF14 was one of the few things I had to help cope.
"Just a big string of middle fingers as she walks right by.." Oh my lord I chuckled so hard at that, and then the image of Venat flipping off Fandaniel omg
Trapping the Ascians in crystals was to stop them retreating to the interdimendional rift. Im pretty sure it doesn't stop theit soul from returning to the Aetherial Sea. The White Auricite was stated to not be capable of holding aether for long term.
Yes, exactly. It was just to keep them in place long enough for you to strike the killing blow, not to keep them there forever.
Well, the Answer is even more layered then one think. There are at least four interpretations for that song that unreavel during the playthrough.
1. Obviously, as the main theme to ARR and the signifying event of 1.0 destruction by Bahamut this song alone is a ballad of the calamity.
2. The song could be an interpretation of the the final days of that sundered paradise. So basically as Venat herself said it: "Such is the lament of they who came befor. The song of they who tried to create a better world. A song of the end."
3. It is the song of the sundered people, actually hinting at the answer to lifes questions that was proposed originally by hermes and meteions quest. It reveals hydaelyns hidden plan in the lyrics. Through suffering, we (the sundered people) ask why we where born and what to life for, therefore finding the answer hermes and meteion seek.
But, the most important interpretation:
4. It was revealed by Koji Fox in the FFXIV no-clip documentary that the ARR trailer and song were in parts inspired (or at least symbolises) the struggle of players and developer of 1.0 at the time. It was a bonding experiance and the tone and theme of Answers can be interpreted as the developers passion for the game and its players after its original failure. It is an outcry of hope for the future.
This is probally the single most transformative piece of media I ever heard. A sign of a true masterpiece and the best of its art.
Amazing ending! As I said before, this cutscene was the epitome of what Garrett said before in 5.0 about how hard it is to make fire land. This cutscene isn't super 4k graphic wow, but that's not important, because the story took the time and paid it off.
"Igeyohrm, ...fisher"
"I fukken hate you"
This just made me laugh so hard.
It's exchanges like this that keep me coming back specifically to you guys. It's just so heartwarming to see such good friendship on display. :)
Great video overall of course, but this is the special ingredient. Thanks for sharing it with us
The worst part of the whole Warner Chapel copyright nonsense is SE has actually cleared everything legally with them for FFXIV videos and streams, but because they work on behalf of Uematsus record company they still blindly flag XIV content with his tracks.
So far it looks like we're good. But all the past flaggings have happened hours after the video or stream posted.
A number of a my playthrough vids on my alt channel got hit by this. It's so eye-roll inducing.
And that's why UA-cam copyright claims should be done in the opposite way it is done today. Right now, I can claim any video on the platform saying 6s of music is mine, and it's up to the content creator to prove they are not stealing my content.
Imagine if first you had to prove you own certain content, and only then the video would be taken down. Sure, big name corporations would also have this all preemptively ready to shoot on demand, but they would not be able to just "we believe this may be ours"
Said it before, saying it again: arguably one of the greatest cutscenes in the history of video games. Masterwork of animation, music, camerawork, use of characters, story, dialogue and synaesthesia.
absolutely, its easly the greatest cutscene in FF history, and one of the most emotional scenes I've ever seen, the whole thing is Shakespearean in nature, if anyone would have doubts about the artistic merits of video games, I'd show them this entire game, but most of all, after that, I'd show them this scene.
Can’t argue with any of this.
@@keithfilibeck2390 The whole "No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise" sequence is positively biblical. Definitely classical, given the whole Paradise Lost angle of the story and the fact that Hythlodaeus is literally (and literary) a major character in Thomas More's 'Utopia' whose name means 'Dispenser of Nonsense'.
Garrett called it a retrofit of Answers and I think that’s a perfect description. Taking a decade-old song and turning it into this cutscene is beyond amazing.
@@cnkclark and ironically, Venat is a Luciferian character archetype, lol.
This cutscene will for me probably remain the greatest in this game and one of if not the greatest in all of gaming, I played through it in the first week and to this day I can not watch it with a dry eye. This is because outside of the fantastic story bits, the second part (post sunder) of the walk from the imagery to the lines used always strike me on a deeply personal level.
This is because I suffer a neurological disorder that causes me to be in constant pain, on top of slowly taking away my ability to do the majority of things, often times leaving me feeling like I am alone and struggling to keep moving forward. So between Venats dialogue about suffering but keep moving on top of the imagery of the creeping darkness spreading over her slowly hampering and disabling her hits really close to home. And it has in some ways helps me to strengthen my resolve to keep moving forward in my own life.
Also wanted to say I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey from "I will never play final fantasy" to here yall are awesome.
Iirc, the first summoning was half the ancients for Zodiark. The second summoning was half the remaining population to repair the world itself from the damage from the final days, and there was talk of a third, sacrificing all other lives on ethyris to being back the ancients, as they would then be able to use creation magic to repopulate the world again. It was between the second and thrid that Venats faction moved.
It’s also not shown but Elidibus we know left Zodiark precisely to try to reconcile both groups as well.
Every time I hear this song, I get sucked right back into this cutscene.
They did a masterful job
It's kinda surprising how well some of the lyrics line up given the retrofit "Release your hands, for your will drags us under"
"My legs grow tired, how much shall we wonder "
"Our souls have been torn" has been giving me chills since all of that was revealed in ShB.... I was FLOORED when they pulled the whole song into this.
"Thou must live, die and know" also fits way too well with the established rules for blotting out memories. But of course it likely fits so well because they are very good at looking at what has already been hinted or established and going from there.
This cutscene hit me hard (as did this whole expansion)as playing it in the middle of the pandemic and things were just so bleak IRL. I cried through the entire thing.
Unrelated, but thanks to you guys, any time I see "????" in the chat log, I hear it as the "Kupo" sound effect.
I still get chills on the last half of this scene no matter how often I see it. This is my favorite moment in media of all time.
It was more impressive that they successfully retconned the song and ideas and made it work so wonderfully than if they had actually planned all of this in detail 11 years ago.
the organ theme is so fucking good (it's called "phoenix theme (From the ashes)" if anyone else is looking for it)
I love how perfectly Answers bookends this saga of FFXIV.
We first heard it during the Fall of Dalamud, the destruction of 1.0 - the end of our beginning.
Now, we hear it during the Final Days, as Venat makes her resolution and brings forth Hydaelyn to sunder the Ancients' world...the beginning of their end.
Welcome to Endwalker.
I adore the retrofit and how masterfully done it is. But the parallels between Venat and Lucifer, with how Venat being the entity taking away the 'bliss', eternal life and the wings to bear them to paradise from the ancients, but it being an act of love, just absolutely hooked me. It's a story and moment that will go with me throughout my life.
Always happy to see your reactions and insights! Just wish I could help out more with a membership.
Venat isn't Lucifer -- if anything, her actions represent the judgment and mercy of God in response to the Fall. One of the strongest images -- Venat holding up her sword to perform the Sundering -- connects her with the Cherubim with the flaming sword that guards the gates to Eden. The other -- Venat covered in the filth of the Sundered world, suffering alongside the people who suffered as a result of her judgment -- connects her with Christ Crucified.
If anyone's Lucifer, it's Hermes, whose over-identification with the plight of the beasts manifests into an entity of pure despair that seeks an end to all existence.
I think what really sells the cutscene is that Venat isn't a friend of her people, but she's the friend of her people's future.
She had to reason with people who had JUST lost their loved ones - imagine how hard that has to be for anyone with ONE person alone, but she had to do it with hundreds. No matter how calm or reasonable her speech could've been, she was never going to reach the ears of the people, so she did the only thing she knew to do, make the best of an awful situation.
The toughest love - she knows what she has to do to give them a future at all, but it's an atrocity and she feels every moment of it, across all the millenia. She knows what she did was horrific, but the alternative was extinction. She held on to Hope even in the deepest darkness of her own actions.
I'm not sure Hermes was just sad about the creations. It was even more the fact that he felt like it was ONLY him who seemed to question it at all. He started to wonder if something was wrong with him, if everyone else seemed to think everything was perfect and great.
He was more distraught with the apathetic society like how everyone just didnt care the previous Fandaniel was going to die imo. I think most people gloss over that aspect
He woke up to the reality the others refused to face. All of them giving and taking life for no reason like it was a game. He became what is known as a tragic villain.
The funny thing is if you talk to other NPCs in the same zone, you find out he's absolutely not the only one with questions, doubts, or problems. He's just too self-absorbed to notice, and has convinced himself that everyone but him is happy.
This is why I hate Hermes. He may be a person to question why the Ancients treat life so indifferently, and at least “took action”, but everything beyond that is so rancid that it feels like him pursuing this question is the path his need for validation took.
@@hypercube8735 The biggest person is Venat. She agrees with him to a large degree. And like they say in the video, she demonstrates a better outcome for him from that state.
To address something you both expressed some confusion about: why the auracite is needed to permanently kill an Ascian. It's really only explained once when first introduced: the auracite traps them long enough for someone to hit them hard enough to actually kill their normally intangible form. When they're killed like this they do go to the Lifestream, they aren't stuck in the shards of the auracite.
This cutscene and all of Elpis was what made me think EW was just okay to “oh NOW I’m invested”. It also retroactively made Shadowbringers so much better aaah I can’t wait to replay SHB with the new graphics
I would like to make a point about all the stalling talk. I dont consider any of what you guys do as stalling, because you follow a schedule and do what you say you will do, thats just good planning and taking things slow. 'Stalling' is putting up a stream saying MSQ and then watching 5 hours of random videos after doing one quest like some certain people have done
Yup, their content has a clear consistency that feels planned and tested at this point. It has become so consistent, even with any inconsistency, that it shows me how much work and thought process goes into planning. It really is a job, and they enjoy working for the viewers. Sometimes, that does not get noticed, but as a designer in marketing, I can tell there is some good discipline behind their strategy, and I wish more people would notice.
would like to add. it irks me sometimes when streamers pause mid cutscene to theorize for minutes and minutes when their question will be answered if they just unpause it and let the cutscene finish
so their way of finishing a quest then have a post cutscene analysis is way way better
More stalling means more videos so I'm okay either way hah.
Their years of being responsible content creators for other communities really shows here.
my interpretation of the biggest fault of the ancients is that they did not know how to grieve.
they lived in practically a perfect world. no hunger, no war, no homeless, no death.
they might have been wrong to create life just to take it away but even hermes agrees that some creatures are too dangerous to allow to roam free, but that doesnt stop him from grieving these creatures.
not only that, hermes grieved for the imminent loss of of the previous fandaniel, a thing usually joyioius in the ancient culture
the ancients did not know how to grieve, opposed hermes' grief, not seeing a reason for it
so when the world ended, when so many had to sacrifice themselves to save some... they did not know how to cope. the grief was so impossibly big that instead they refused to move forwards and instead kill countless people and creature to bring back people how had willingly given their life for others
Honestly between Shadowbringers and Endwalker this has become my favorite final fantasy story of any game.
Completely eclipses and surpasses any Final Fantasy.
Challenges any story on any medium for the crown. Maybe not on its delivery, but certainly on its impact.
Same, it's like a franchise of movies and suddenly here's this long form series across multiple seasons where the writing and story just get better and better. It's downright unfair to compare other FF games to XIV. It's like comparing a summer blockbuster to Breaking Bad or The Wire.
12:40 What makes it more sad is that Hythbro puts on a smile for Emet as he says goodbye, but as you watch him turn around, he looks like he's about to cry.
I just saw the end of the video and seeing Kyle with shorts doing his big "The past was better bit" just had this nice homie feel to it. Like he is just mega vibing to all that FF14 is showing and having a blast just gushing about it.
"Objection: Pandering to the audience."
Look... sometimes that's what we want, ok?
Venat's memory is replayed to us the way actual memories are, edited down to a collection of sequential events. I believe whatever groundwork for the sundering was already laid before her confrontation and it was something she's been resisting pulling the trigger on until that moment. It also seemed to me it was the conclusion to a debate she's had with them many times before. It's such a great gaming moment for so many reasons, it's just unfortunate it can only be appreciated by those who have experienced the game to this point.
She knew it was going to happen, that she was going to HAVE to do it, but it had to be at the right time to align with the history we knew. Zodiark had to be in place and protecting the star, but the second sacrifice of lives never happened. I believe she was already Hydaelyn at this point, fully powered up and infused, but still in her human form. At the moment they invoked Zodiark the second time, she knew she had to strike. The moment we prepared her for was at hand and our future depended on it.
@@cnkclarkThird sacrifice, actually. Hydaelyn interceded before the third sacrifice. The first was to bring Zodiark into existence and thereby shield Etheirys from the Final Days. The second was to restore the ecosystem and environment. The third was to bring back the people they had lost in the first two sacrifices, and it was the point at which Venat and her allies protested.
There was suffering in Ellis and their paradise.
They didn’t suffer but their creations did.
That’s the thing that was eating away at Hermes and why he couldn’t be happy. He was the only one who saw it and was empathetic to and could not reconcile. It’s what the others were blind to and what lead to the road they all went down.
That’s my interpretation of it. The ancients were selfish and self centered, Hermes was aware of the suffering and Venar took away that self righteousness of the ancients and brought them down to build up their hides and humble them.
In a very strange but real way, their society was a lot like a death cult. The most important thing was for people to do their job and then "return to the star" when they were done. Everyone you talk to alongside Venat thinks that it will be a very good thing when Venat finally decides to "return to the star". When you take out the flower language they're basically saying "Oh my goodness I can't wait until you die" in a non-sarcastic way because their entire society has made them believe that death is their final and most noble goal. It's actually quite dystopian upon further examination.
@@Rukdug by your analysis the difference between the ancients and the other societies metion found is quite polarizing.
Everything the other societies did was to escape death and avoid it at all cost, and when they couldn’t they fell into despair when they realized it was inevitable.
While the ancients embraced death and, as you said, looked forward to it. The only thing they feared was not finishing or fulfilling their duty before they died. When the status quo was disrupted they fell into desperate when they couldn’t indulge themselves in their work and fulfilling their destiny, returning to the star.
The idea the Ancients didn’t suffer isn’t true. Their society has its own problems and issues and there are even shown to be Ancients in Elpis who worry about even Familiars dying from lack of aether/food. Hermes himself actively ignores the pain and suffering of Creations so long as they aren’t the ones he’s concerned abiut(the giant beast killed numerous creations, OTHER Ancients wanted to honor the creations that died by the beasts hands). Even Emet in Elpis admits he is saddened when someone dies, but it’s not his place to tell them to not die on their own terms. But did their own thoughts and feelings consume them to the point that beings of extremely dense aether could change the Elpis flower? This was always why Hermes attempting to judge things using said flower was itself faulty process to judge and look down upon others, because he in fact refused to see if others had their own problems or also viewed familiars and creations as living beings.
@Rukdug: The Real Problem is that the story doesn’t really do enough to handle the fact the Ancients are Immortal; and being immortal comes with a fundamental fact: Either you live forever and can’t die and spend eternity being miserable(which literally was what Emet-Selch does as a Paragon), you spend an eternity being miserable or angry like the dragons like Nidhogg/Tiamat/Hresvelgr do, or you chose to end your long life on your own terms so you aren’t consumed by ennui/despair.
The fact that Reincarnation IS REAL doesn’t help this issue either, since it means they know they’ll be reborn again and live for tens of thousands of years. When you know that reincarnation is a thing of course you would chose to move on when your old, which is when Ancients give up their Seats on the Convocation since they might be immortal their bodies still grow old.
This is Hermes' misconception and not the reality, and we know this from the Elpis sidequests. There are those who have doubts about their methods, who operate differently from others. It is however possible to say that Hermes may not have had the luxury of wanting to change the standards of Elpis as the chief overseer of Elpis, that he perhaps felt obligated to maintain their methods. But then again, as the chief overseer, he did have the power to make those changes, or at least to bring them up, perhaps to the Convocation.
@@RukdugReturning to the star is not the most important thing in their society, but it is what they feel is their responsibility upon having lived an accomplished life. Returning to the star is their way of making way for the future generations. Because they are so long-lived, they realize that they can't simply remain forever, and in returning they also return their bountiful aether to the star. We all know how untenable life on our planet would be if no one ever died, and comparing their society to a death cult when they are simply perpetuating the cycle of life feels a bit disingenuous.
we endwalking with this one boys
I often say that FFXIV has provided me a full range of human emotion. Joy, elation, anxiety, fear, despair, sadness, loss, rage, etc. I don't have a word to describe the heaviness I felt at the end of Live Die and Know; it sparked an emotion I don't have a name for.
Music played during the crowd summoning Zodiak was a phenix theme from one of the raids in coil. I vividly remember watching the patch trailer for it and being amazed by the theme when I first heard it. The theme stood out from all and it felt special. At the time, I don't know why it did.
It just kind of hit me. When the ancients all turn their backs on Venat, it's symbolic of them turning their backs on reason.
Reason, or the future. It's the point where they choose blissful stagnation over the chance to grow as people. Stronger, wiser, more capable of weathering hardships, and more knowledgeable about reality.
@@Zakjuh reason. Your example still puts "the future" under that banner.
That's the true moment of the Sundering. The battle is not Hydaelyn versus Zodiark - it's Venat versus her people's refusal to give up their lost Paradise.
Any context that makes "He shall walk" THIS metal is amazing.
coils music gives me so much nostalgia those where days when we did not know what game we was playing :)
I see as Venat opens Pandora's box, having humankind feel all the pain and torment but that gives people the strength to find Hope amongst all despair.
Isnt that the actual greek lore behind Elpis, or something like that?
one cannot deny Venat's conviction, and her resolve, its absolute, its inhuman, and cements her as one of the only Gods in FF's entire multiverse to ACT Godly, to truly be an ideal, even if she is actually mortal at her core, her resolve to save humanity and bring hope the hopeless, is pristine, perfect, divine.
Most FF gods end up being basically monsters with godlike power, while Venat's core of unbreakable Humanity lets her wield godlike power in a way that feels like a genuine protector deity that cares for life and human dignity.
@@cnkclark It let her defeat a God far stronger than herself, and make an impossible dream come true, to save the Universe from the very concept of Despair, through her Avatar, and her inspiration.
Kefka was basically an embodiment of wanton destruction before he became a god. He is a monster with godly powers, but he is also an apotheosis.
@@iantaakalla8180 he isn't, because even he balked at destroying everything, because he was a loser, eventhough he COULD have at any time.
8:35 This right here is why I have so much love for EW; it makes SHB hit even harder when you go back and look through it (and probably contributes to the sheer numbers that streamers finishing 5.0 tend to get). There are tons of little details and hints that went right over my head until I watched you guys played through it, and it made me fall in love with this game all over again. So glad y'all are finally here!
Welcome to Endwalker
The true best thing I could ever say about these moments, after every step you have taken on your journey, is that in this, there are ten thousand things to be able to unpack. Answer works so well, because there is just so much to open, to connect, and to reexperience. Hear, Think, Feel. Just live.
If I could pick just one thing that FFXIV has done more than any other Media piece I have ever seen in my life, is that it takes your experiences, good and bad, and gives them depth in such a fascinating way. The writers, artists, songwriters, and whole production team hit upon the simple and powerful magic of being able to fill out so much, from so little. Truly a Realm Reborn.
"No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk." Like being thrown out of the Garden of Eden, yet still not learning your lesson.
Paradise Lost
I would say that our story as the WoL rather proves that at least some people do learn the lesson.
Still, that it took eons and the fact that the Warrior of Light was an incarnation of Azem…
The friends that support the Warrior of Light are better representations for they prove the teamwork and resilience necessary that the Amaroutines never had.
Been avoiding FF14 content for a while now, I can't even bring myself to play the game after some bad IRL stuff went down despite how much I love it to death, but I had to click and see your discussion about this. It's absolutely one of my favourite moments in the entire story and cements Elpis as one of, if not my favourite arc in the game. Back to digging my head underground and avoiding every memory of the game while I heal, but I'll resurface to watch your Endwalker climax vid when that drops.
Hope you all have a fantastic time with it!
This cutscene is one of 3 pieces of media that have ever made me cry in my adult life. Everything, Everywhere, All at Once when watching with my mom. And then Urianger's cutscene with Moenbryda's parents.
You don't need to feel guilt over the pokeball'd Ascians. They aren't trapped in Auracites forever.
The purpose of the Auracite is just to soul trap them from immediately ditching their physical bodies, to return to their little pocket dimension and possess someone else later. Instead it traps them in a form we can then truly destroy. Urianger and Moenbryda even mention back in ARR that Auracite itself is a temporary thing, it can contain vast amounts of Aether but only temporarily.
The reason we smash them with a "Blade of Light" is just to truly "kill" their de-bodied souls, and force them to return to the Aetherial Sea. Normally Ascian souls have the power to decide, NOT to return upon death. We just force them to follow the circle of life.
I never noticed before but I really like the way they show her sword falling from her hand and hitting the ground - still solid yet seperated from her and left behind. It coincides with the first hit she takes that begins to weaken her, like the first rejoining attempt of the 13th. Emet's powerpoint presentation in ShB showed it still exists but is a useless voidy shard, so it was essentially like the sword that was seperated from her, still existing albeit useless and therefore weakening her power. Given all the emphasis we see in Elpis cutscenes of how their weapons are summoned and then turned back into aether when they are discarded, it stood out that this time it didn't poof into aether, but remained solid. I have no idea if it was intentional or coincidence, but I just thought it was a cool link.
every time i see this scene i'm reminded of how Endwalker really helped me get through a difficult time. just everything about this scene, the way it deals with existential dread and fear of the future, but also hope, and love for the world, other people, and existence itself. i'm so happy you guys got to this part, no matter how you received it, but i'm really hyped you ended up enjoying it!
I can't describe how profound this entire scene is to me. I have watched it dozens of times and it makes me emotional every single time. The way they tied Answers, one of my favorite songs in the game before that point, into the overall story I feel has never been done in this way before, let alone so well. I could gush about this story and how much it means to me for hours.
I love how this cutscene needed its own video.
I literally had to stop playing for the day once I saw this, I just had to lay down and let that all sink in (granted I did the entirety of Elpis in a single day). It is currently my favorite cutscene in the entire game. And yes a lot of it has to do with the fact it plays my favorite song in the entire game (Answers)
I still remembered when endwalker launch trailer was released, while it had some voice-line from this scene and some random scene mix&match in it, it didn't mention anything about Elpis, this scene in details, or anything beyond this point. they just made that it was Zodiark as final boss all along and that's it. CBU3 was such a misleading troll xD
There's a voiceline in the trailer from this scene, "...there must be a way to restore things to the way they were. To reclaim the perfect paradise we once had." that is played over scenes of Fandanial that had me actually believing he might have had a secret motivation to bringing the Final Days again. I was right... just not in the way I thought.
As spoilery as any trailer released beforehand can be, I love the way the expectations were set that the Final Days were simply a backdrop for a Hydaelyn vs Zodiark vs WoL finale, when in reality the context of Elpis changes everything (plus an early Zodiark fight for good measure).
lot of us thought going to the moon will be the climax and zodiark as the last boss
There was never any implication that Zodiark was the final boss even back then, but more to the point, Zodiark is literally a savior to the star, this had been made clear since Shadowbringers. Thus, there was never any way that Zodiark would be a primary opponent no matter how you looked at it if you truly understood his role in the story, because while he is the Ascians' god, he was also never truly a villain. What people found interesting, if anything, was that the trailer contained shots from Venat's recollection of the original Final Days, so we wondered how that would tie in to the story.
I have such a viseral reaction to Answers. From watching a game I could barely play close down the servers with a promise of a new beginning. To Elidibus forcing me to rewalk my entire journey. To it being completely recontextualized by The Walk. It's such a good example of how you can make a retcon framed less as 'Hey I got a better idea later forget what you knew this is what it is now' and more of 'Hey, you didn't have all the information so your perception was flawed'. Good freaking stuff.
Oh damn? We get 3 elpis videos!!! Thank you
Hell yeah, Elpis was just that damn good and this one cutscene alone gets a third video all on its own.
One thing that I’m not sure if people mentioned or not, but I was kind of reminded because it was brought up is that in Japanese all stars/planets that are not Earth or its sun have a single word that they use for it. This is most likely why Eorzea is never referred to as a planet. They do the same thing in Final Fantasy 7.
That song still gives me chills. Such an amazing song!
"Answers" has been in this game from the beginning and more or less had four different life cycles and interpretation
1: A curious an open-ended question of the quest of a new MMO
2: A lament of the state of the game (the 1.0 cycle)
3: A capstone to finalize the end of a broken world. (The fall of Dalamud/final cutscene of 1.0.)
4: This epic, epic moment, contextualizing the entire saga of the Hydaelyn/Zodiark series.
Each time it is used it contextualizes beginnings and ends. Their use of it here is a master class of drawing meaning in ambiguity and I am HERE FOR IT.
Been binging all of your videos the past week- even watching your stuff out of order has been great! I remember seeing you guys way back during the WOW exodus and writing you guys off. MAN i regret that. seeing the journey in real time wouldve been a blast
Means a lot to hear. Thanks for giving us another shot.
They stream every tues and thurs! Msq mainly on thurs if you wanna join us
@@Amovetvdon't mention it, it was mostly garretts new sick hair
@@WavesWatershinethey've been great so far!
I love it when Kyle just goes off on a tangent, makes a lot of sense in what he's trying to say but also confusing everyone at the same time, and Garrett has to rein him back in.
I may have said this to you guys before, but it's my personal headcannon is that Venat's cutscene IS a memory. Rather, it's her memory of events from a perspective set thousands of years in the future. It explains why events appear so compressed; Venat/Hydaelyn remembers all these events happening back to back because all the events that happened between them are either forgotten or not associated with these events. Some events like her arguing her case to the people are likely a composite, multiple arguments summarized into a single exchange.
Every Wish Has A Home
I really love this format of video from you guys.
Now compare the lyrics of Answers to the events of the story. "Death has passed his judgement" can be interpreted as Hades judging the sundered unfit, for instance.
Ten years ago, Answers was my entry drug to ffxiv, to hear this at the very end of it all floored me, I had to take a break to just sit in my garden, and bawled my eyes out
One thing not mentioned that I love about the scene with Emet is that that's The Moment for Emet. The moment that he's forever stuck in, that he can't move on from. Where Hythlodaeus walks into the past to become a part of Zodiark and Venat walks into the future to become Hydaline.
One of my favorite mind exercises is to imagine if Venat was just another imagination-less Ascian. What if after their time as Azim they just peaced out like most other Azims? They decided to stick around and because of that we had the only ancient with enough conviction to be a foil to Zodiark, who seems to have been at best a bandaid to what Meteion is trying to bring. Imagine being given the greatest position of power among a people that were the highest of powers, and not yet realizing why it never felt right, only to realize that your true purpose had still been unfulfilled. And that purpose? Was unvearable sadness, pain, and loss. Tragic. Beautiful.
What's throwing ya'll off at the beginning is that there are FOUR versions of Answers.
1. The version that plays in the ARR cinematic/end of an era.
2. The longer one in the OST, also used in THAT cutscene.
3. Answers Reprise. Used in the end of the 1.0 cutscene with the goobbue. This version is also used during The Rising each year.
4. Dalamud Answers. Only used during the Final Days of 1.x. It's actually pretty terrifying to listen to when you put your mind in that time period where the Warriors of Light did everything right and still, still it came to this.
That cutscene destroyed me, I just sat there in my chair and cried for at least 30.minutes. I have been through so much in my life at that point. I think alot of us been through alot. But still we have pushed on
I think the reason you know the story as "Hydalyn and Zodiark fought and Hydalyn wasn't strong enough to kill him so she had to sunder the world" is because it was Emet who told you about it.
He told you the way he knew, from the peoples' perspective it must have seemed like Hydalyn was against Zodiark in the first place while WE know - as well as Venat - that he was needed to maintain the protective aether layer till the WOL was ready.
History is always about interpreting the facts we can gather but most of the times you don't have all of them and need to make assumptions. The gathering tribe quests from ShB are actually an interesting way to play with that.
SPOILERS
Hydaelyn admits it was true. Despite everything she tried to fight Zodiark, who wasn’t even as max ability since his Heart Elidibus separated to try to reconcile between Venats faction and Zodiarks followers.
Despite lacking his heart Zodiark was too powerful for Hydaelyn to beat, so she did the option she knew would work.
Emet-Selch said from the very first cutscene in Qitana that Hydaelyn was created to serve as Zodiark's shackles though. There was never any intent to kill Zodiark, only defeat him.
all those people who now the details better than me :P
But I stand by my words as she also said she would "sunder from temptation to turn back" and this sounds like it was her plan all along. So I think it might be a bit of interpretation or inconsistency in the writing. Not that it really matters :D I enjoyed the story!
@@KassilpheYou're right, it is explicitly sundering, but that means that Zodiark was not killed, merely weakened and sealed away. Venat understood the necessity of keeping Zodiark around in order to maintain the world's order in the face of the Final Days.
Awesome premiere! Had a blast feasting/enjoying with everyone❤🎉
Moen actually shows up in a way in the ethereal sea. (The Aitiascope dungeon). You see her soul represented as her axe and if I recall correctly it gives you a buff if you stand in it.
Nabriales's soul is just fine and most likely in the life stream. White acuacite just traps them so they are unable to teleport away. We then have to hit acians with a substantial amount of aether to kill them completely. Which is why Moen gave her life force/aether to the white beam coming from tupsimati to kill Nabriales. So he's technically dead and in the life stream and not trapped in the auracite. That's how I understand it anyway. I could be wrong. Someone is welcomed to fact check me cuz I also want to know if my understanding is correct.
That was also my take on it
Thou must live, die and know.... A powerful line that didn't really make sense until we learn that upon returning to the Star all memories are returned, or at least that potential, the line just becomes exponentially more powerful thinking of Emet's aether bobbing away going 'A fuck, that little shit was right all along!'
Tempered Kyle at the end took me out 😂 🤣
You know... one thing i dont see talked about enough with this scene is simply its parallels with reality. I see everyone discuss the storyline but what always steuck me the hardest was how this scene and this storyline bleeds into the reality we all live in.
Real life sucks. Its horribly painful and the sheer amount of suffering in the world is insane. You always hear people ask "if there really is a God why would they allow for disease and for people to die horribly and suffer?". And this story really answers that. Whether you are a believer in religion or not everyone questions why we are born just to die and the meaning of it all. The lyrics from Answers even mentions this with "Tell us why, given Life, we are meant to die, helpless in our cries?". And the story of Venat, knowing the answer ti that question, knows its not an easy answer to accept. Everyone finds it hard to accept the suffering and pain and agony and death in the world. But its an unfortunate necessity of life.
Sorrow and pain will never go away. Everyone experiences it in once way or another and at varying degrees of intensity. But if there was no dispair and pain then joy and happiness would be far less fulfilling. Doing something that makes you happy gives you a specific feeling of joy. But to feel joy after experiencing sorrow... that has a very special feeling to it. It feels so much sweeter and brighter and warmer! Joy without sadness is monotony. It isnt anything special. It becomes so commonplace and ordinary. Joy after suffering can bring you to tears and be so relieving and blissful. The stronger the dispair the stronger the joy and vice versa.
This story plays such a deeper role than just simple story telling and plot. Its motivational. Its reassuring. Its validating. Its saying to every person playing it that this is a part of life and if it was easy to get to paradise you would hardly appreciate it as much as you would if you had to go the hard way and walk.
With darkness there is light. Both sides of the same coin (like our Warriors of Light being the Warriors of Darkness). And we suffer in life to ensure that our future and the future beyond us becomes less and less unbearable. "To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow." To bear the pain and learn from it so we can entrust the future will be in better hands. I think this is a lesson everyone can benefit from learning and should you follow a religion or not, if you imagine Venat as a symbolism for a God or the creator of man, this is the answer to "why would God let us suffer if they are so powerful?". To teach us to be strong. To continue on when you feel like you cannot take another step. That there is Light in the world but to fully appreciate it you have to do it the hard way.
I wish more people talked about this side of things because its all i tend to think of when seeing this scene.
To Venat and our boys!
The black stuff was originally meant to be blood but it got censored iirc.
Honestly I think I kinda prefer it this way - it's a spiritual miasma, a mire of plague and doubt, the black essence of the suffering she wrought on all living souls and that she takes unto herself as the spirit of the land itself.
@@cnkclark yeah the blackness is very cool looking and fits in well.
Part of me likes it because it just looks like negative dynamis.
dark despair in black gooeyness is also cool
Me: "I know I've been coughing pretty bad for days, and that laughing leads to pain, but I can probably get away with this video, right? It's about *that* cutscene, so it can't be *too* funny..."
I would like "Igeyorhm...fishing." on my tombstone.🤣
For the white auricite, if I'm recalling the dialogue from ARR correctly, it was less about encapsulating the soul so it could be destroyed, and more about preventing them from simply bamfing back to the "shore" of the aetherial sea to avoid death. It acted more like anchor than a jail cell, keeping them in the material world long enough for our massive blast of aether (our "blade of light") to sever the tie of their soul to this reality and force it back into the lifestream proper-like.
"Igeyorhm..." Me: "If you say fish--" "The Fisher"
I almost spit out my drink
so to say this in now context: zodiark doesn't want more souls. the ancients keep using him and sacrificing souls in order to power him. he is a god machine and they keep giving him fuel to run. he isn't asking for it.
Zodiark is a tool without any real will of his own. This is one of the reasons why I'm always puzzled when people try to villainize him, the other being that no matter what perspective you look at it from, he is literally the savior of the star, the one who halted the Final Days. This is why that quest on the moon titled The Martyr in English is, in Japanese, called "The Hero Who Saved the Star".
28:25 Zodiark was already summoned, those guys were going to offer the other half of the population to bring back the first batch that sacrificed themselves for it's summoning