The train 'Regiolis' did fit the official Loading gauge. But some of the station were not. The Rolling stock they were replacing were longer and a bit thinner so some of the irregularities in the geometry of the station were missed (and apparently some were clearly out of the standards but too expensive for the Region to transform .... or the transformation was late). Most of the media jumped on Alstom at the time because it was a lot easier and Alstom was (and still is) in the middle of other PR s**tstorm.
I like NS's use of zoning in the train, especially on the doubledeckers where upstairs is the quiet zone (with row seating) and downstairs is the social zone (with quad seating and a sofa). But I think they went overboard with the ICNG. Three zones is overkill - most people aren't going to walk down the train to the zone reflecting their desired environment, so the effectiveness of the zones will be poor. At least if they stuck to two simple zones "quiet" and "not quiet" there's some chance people might move over into the next compartment if they want a different environment.
Well here’s the rub: these ‘zones’ are, in the case of double deckers, merely suggestions. I once asked the conductor (to try to get a loud group to shut up) and he confirmed that no, only the zones marked as such are actual silence compartments, and the headphones icon really only means ‘p‐pwease remain quiet -oh, b‐ut only if you reeeeally want to’ I wish they had the balls to make the entire top half of the train a silence compartment *_and enforce it._* I don’t mind it when people are loud where they’re allowed, but so many people either ignore the signs until someone calls them out (I refuse to believe that more than one of the people who claimed so actually missed the signs) or they just keep talking and then when you call them out you’re the one who needs to shut their 🦀mouth. Sometimes I’m almost tempted to drop my education and go for conductor just so there’s one more staff member out there who gives a shit.
@@muncherofpizza no, the bottom floor should be quiet. I think it’s ridiculous they want to make the top the quiet zone. Kids like the top floor. I like to sit up there with my friends. The people who want to read a book or work can sit on the bottom floor where the views are worse.
@@Thom-TRA For me it doesn’t matter as much which half is quit and which half is not; I just hate how NS is like ‘yea this is the place to be quiet’ and then add other places where you’re ‘politely asked’ to be quiet and then they enforce neither. I can’t speak for which half children love more, because as a kid I could never choose which half was cooler, since the fact it had two decks already took the spot for coolest thing ever. Maybe the top zone is the quiet one because of the extra noise from the train itself down there, but Idk how much of a difference that makes.
Pretty neat stuff. In Denmark we also have very much the same story. Order custom equipment time and time again, screw up with Ansaldo Breda, and then order Alstom Coradia streams. We're getting at least 100 5 car IC5's in Denmark, though recent statements suggest they may have increased the total order to 150 units. DSB plans to use theirs on everything from smaller sprinter style regionalservices, to cross country express trains. They went hard on a one size fits all approach. Ours have also been delayed, so far from 2024 to 2027.
Great to see some Dutch rail content! I rode Schiphol to Breda and then over to Tilburg for a now-legendary concert back in Sept. 2019, right before the pandemic. I also love watching the Mierlo-Hout live railcam to get my "fix" of stop-trains and intercities, plus the random freight rolling through.
NS trains are awesome! It’s truly an experience to ride one the day after riding a Metra train in Chicago. I know it’s not a perfect comparison, but it’s like stepping into another dimension ;)
@@plamenivanov1506 hello I forgive me for not knowing, however your comment mentions “NS” trains…. What is an NS train… I’ve always correlated “NS” with Norfolk Southern:..
I love how the color of the ceiling lights indicates which section of the train you’re in! Seems like a really simple system that could be implemented elsewhere!
Wow Western European trains are straight outta the future, they look 50 years ahead of Amtrak, MARC or VRE. The color coded sections are cool but how would they except a foreigner to know those rules, the quiet cars here are all marketed and usually the first in the consist.
As expensive as an underground central station is, I admire the Dutch for investing in that for Delft. Plus switching to existing "off the shelf" train stock is a smart idea. Thanks for showing us a bit of your native land! (And I'm envious of the NS network/OV-chipkaart system.)
The sets capable of running to Germany will likely run along the ICE line from Amsterdam to Düsseldorf or Cologne via Utrecht and Arnhem. At least it has been long planned to serve this route with additional trains and the Amsterdam - Berlin route will in future be run by the ICE L sets whenever they're ready so they're not really needed there
@@Thom-TRA Op het intranet van NS of een bestand dat daar op stond (weet niet meer precies welke) stond dat er plannen zijn om de ICNG in de toekomst naar Berlijn te laten rijden. Kon alleen een screenshot vinden van dat stukje tekst en niet het hele bestand helaas.
@@maxfunf Het zou jammer zijn als ze de ICE-L treinen op de IC Berlijn vervangen met ICNG materieel aangezien ze minder comfortabel zijn en dat ze maar 200 km/h kunnen in plaats van 230 km/h. De baanvaksnelheid tussen Hamburg en Berlijn is 250 km/h.
@@maxfunf Yeah I think I heard that as well somewhere before. tbh though those two lines are basically the only ones where it would even make sense to run those trains. Potentially also on the Venlo - Viersen rail line in some form but for that it would first have to get the second track and who knows when or if ever thats gonna happen. For that we would need a competent transport minister first 😂🥲
My only complaint about ICNG is sometimes the motor can be noisy during acceleration & deacceleration, especially if you sit on top of the powered bogie. Also, it’s a pity it can’t exceed 200 km/h on the HSL line. But apart from those, ICNG is a very neat train. It’s comfortable, spacious, and versatile. It’s also level boarding, so no more workout session in Schiphol with your luggage hahaha. I’ve tried Coradia train in Italy and Germany, and my expectation is high for ICNG in the future. And compared to the disastrous Fyra project, ICNG is a huge improvement!
I like the design of the carbody of these trains, and together with the “classical” color scheme the front section reminds me at the legendary hondekoppen and plan U and plan V trainsets that formed “the face” of NS back in the 1970ies (when I got in touch with this progressive railway system for the first time). This doesn’t wonder - was the design philosophy of those former NS trains the same as nowadays - crashworthyness and streamlining.
In a few years we should see more or less this exact model in service as well: the Umbria and Tuscany regions have recently ordered from Alstom some so-called "200 km/h Pop" sets to operate some regional services that currently use parts of the Rome-Florence high-speed line. These services are the Florence-Rome, Ancona-Rome and Perugia-Rome, which currently use E464 engines with rather old carriages. I'm not sure if those sets would need to be capable of running under 25 kV AC as well, as the high-speed line sections they would use have the older DC electrification and to my knowledge there are no plans to update it.
@@Thom-TRA what govt organized mass transit isn’t? Remember, you ARE a displaced Chicagoan lol. Now here, as they try to consolidated Metra, CTA etc lol
Woo! I'm going to be getting there just in time for the new ones.... Maybe I can take one to Köln next spring? There's a concert there I want to see.. TBH the old trains weren't *bad*, but these are NICE. Looking forward to racking some miles.
God, watching videos about European trains makes me so unbelievably jealous. 200kph intercity trains. Brand new fully electric train sets. Clean bathrooms. International trips with no border checks. The dream. . :
@@cptDutch ik heb zelf anders ook wel een aantal klachten over NS hoor. Alleen omdat sommige dingen goed zijn betekent niet dat we niet mogen klagen wat niet goed is.
Ik zeg ook niet dat alle klachten ongegrond zijn, maar wel veel. Dat bijvoorbeeld de infrastructuur in slechte staat is en daardoor de maximale snelheid niet gehaald kan worden is beschamend. Maar er zijn sommige die er lustig op los klagen over onbelangrijke rand zaken zoals onbrekende usb stopcontacten in sprinters (die de meesten nooit nodig hebben) terwijl we een van de beste spoorwegen hebben ter wereld. We zijn ontzettend verwend geraakt.
It's funny seeing these trains as I couldn't work out where I saw them before but alas it was on UA-cam & a dedicated channel I watch called "live feed zandvoort" 😂 knew they looked familiar.
This year I traveled with the Trenitalia ETR 700 (the previous Fyra) for the first time. Just comparing both trains, does feel like we are missing out on something in the Netherlands..
Great review, I really like the interior of these trains, I wish Amtrak here in the states would adopt something like this instead of the austere and outdated grey on grey seen on the new venture coaches. Maybe someday Amtrak, maybe someday...
It is just a shame that the ICNG is severely under-powered. They only have 3,390kW in the 8 car version. So they accelerate like a slug to 200km/h. A Stadler Flirt200 of the same size would have 6,000kW of power in a 8 car version. 5-car ICNG is 2,545kW vs 5-car Flirt200 is 4500kW.
@@Thom-TRA It seems to stem from olden times when NS had to limit the power due to the low 1500V DC overhead wire. They had to limit the power so you wouldn't get too high amperage drawn from the pantograph. I believe there is a limit of about 3000A before you melt the overhead wire and pantograph. But today you can limit the power with electronics when driving under 1500V DC, and then have all the power available when driving under 25kV AC on the HSL. That is how the Traxx works. That is limited to 4000kW under 1500V and full 5600kW under 15/25kV. And the Traxx outperforms the ICNG by a mile.
While that's true, the longest trip this train takes is between Brussels and Amsterdam, and it's only 10 minutes slower than Eurostar/Thalys. Not a lot of benefit for a lot of added maintenance.
Those are nice trains alright! My favorite color is blue meaning I’d choose from one of those seats. But most importantly I’d rather stick with the cheapest option of whichever train car it is, anywhere on the train and no matter the amount of train cars there is on each set.
Thanks for your take, one to add to the list of rides to take - reckon the 'German' sets would be useful backup for the ICE L to Berlin, alternatively might be useful on the Köln-Frankfurt NBS \m/
I think that Japan and the Netherlands are the only countries that have,or had,those driving cabs on top of the train.Well in general service at least as I think that a few other nations have tinkered with prototypes which never got anywhere.
SD resident here. You mean the 4 more trains a day that they added to the schedule? The new schedule doesn't really look much different except the new late night trains.
Good video Tom. I am curious if i ever ride these trains. Living in Zuid-Limburg right on the German border its far more convenient to go to a big city as Köln in Germany, then for example Den Bosch in the Netherlands. In Germany DB has great ticket offers like the NRW-ticket or the Deutschland-ticket that make traintravelling far much cheaper then in the Netherlands. NS has some special tickets too, but by a long way not as attractive. Greatings from Eygelshoven, Ralf
Dedication zones by colour lights is very smart and creative idea. Nature in the toilet also looks peaceful and nice. Other things in this train looks like ordinary european suburban train but with higher speed, I think it is just a workhorse train for intercity commuting. Are there power sockets and usb-chargers in this train?
Ik ging vroeger naar werk met die treindienst, maar gewoon tussen Delft en Den Haag CS. Ik wist niet dat er al ICNG's op dat traject rijden, hebben ze al alle ICR treinen tussen Amsterdam en Breda vervangen? (behalve de treinen die naar Brussel doorrijden)
@@Thom-TRADat is interessant. Ik had verwacht dat ze zouden zoveel mogelijk de ICNG tussen Schiphol en Rotterdam laten rijden omdat de Traxx tegenwoordig vaak vertraging heeft door die verzakte brug op de HSL. De ICNG kan tijd inhalen door 200 te rijden ipv de geplande 160
I also can't tell you exactly, why the NS has ordered the NL-DE Coradia Streams, but I can speculate: The VRS, the german transport agency for the Bonn-Köln-Aachen-region, has made demands for an an Intercity/Regional Express between Amsterdam and Köln via Eindhoven and Aachen. For such a, by the german side co-financed, train, the Coradia Streams would be the perfect vehicles.
The challenge with running ICNGs on Amsterdam-Eindhoven-Köln is that the Amsterdam-Eindhoven segment is extremely busy so they normally need double decker trains. Maybe if they schedule the Köln trains to run right behind a train to Maastricht there's some chance they could make it through the Amsterdam-Eindhoven corridor without getting massively overcrowded
Small correction, the last train that the NS designed was not the Fyra V250. It was the DM '90. The NS did away with its design bureau after that because it needed to be profitable by 2000 as part of its 'privatisation' (verzelfstandiging). No technical failures led to the end of the NS' own designs.
Correction to your correction: I never said that NS designed the V250. I actually never mention NS designing their own trains. I said that the V250s were custom-built, which they were, and that after their malfunction, NS switched to off-the-shelf products. Please listen to what I actually say before you “correct” me.
4:32 AFAIK the colours aren't explained anywhere on board the train itself, or on the platform for that matter. No text or pictograms anywhere to indicate the quiet area. Which makes it pretty impossible to enforce, because nobody knows what those ^%$# colours mean, if they haven't looked it up in some third-party source like this video.
Ooooooo, level boarding! I was kind of shocked at the state of coaches serving Schiphol - climbing up 3 or 4 really narrow steps with a pair of suitcases is not fun, and the vestibule doors were sized to give a broomstick a tight pass.
Does a bear s*** in the woods? Yes it does if the train bathroom has a nice forest design on it. In the reality, he'd get booted off the train because he got no ticket.
These Coradias always seem like slightly souped up FLIRTs. Maybe Stadler needs to boost their stuff, so it can also find a role as a high speed intercity train...
5:25. Dit is het enige wat ik wat minder vind aan de ICNG. Het toilet is vrij krap, dus je krijgt een beetje een claustrofobisch gevoel En: This is my only con with the ICNG. The standard toilets are a bit too small and you it gives a claustrofobic feeling
As on other videos of these trains, there seem to be a whole lot of unnecessary obstacles to easy access through the train; narrow aisles, steps that go up and down, and lots and lots of internal doors that don't really seem completely essential. And bike space seems remarkably limited for a Dutch train
Many Dutch people have bikes where they live and where they work. It’s honestly too much of a hassle to bring it on the train. I for one hate doing it.
Does NS have any plans to acquire 300 km/h-capable trainsets in the future, whether for domestic or international service? It seems like a shame that only trains from other operators can take full advantage of the infrastructure.
NS is not in the business of long-distance services outside of the country. When they run on high-speed lines they tend to operate the 'local' service (by high-speed standards) stopping at all the minor stations along the high speed line. So there's not much point in going faster than about 200-230 km/h anyway.
The Dutch government is not satisfied with the NS about their high-speed service. Partly because of the delay in delivering the new NS trains. That is why the government is going to allow more 'foreign' companies on the Dutch high-speed line for more competition. The Italian railway company Ferrovie Dello Stato has indicated its intentions to run the Frecciarossa trains from Amsterdam to Paris, Eindhoven and Berlin by 2027. Arriva, part of Deutsche Bahn, has also indicated that it wants to run a high-speed service between Groningen and Amsterdam and Amsterdam to Paris.
The tunnel in Delft is a lot like they did with the high speed line in Bologna, Italy, where they put the high speed train station in a tunnel under Centrale station, while slower trains use the older above ground platforms. I have mixed opinions about this, because it boosts the efficiency of the whole station at the cost of a worse entry to the city for the high speed passengers, since you could’ve gotten to see the city before arriving, but you get a tunnel instead. Even airport passengers get a better arrival, thanks to the Marconi Express monorail thing from the airport to Centrale.
Sorry, I do not understand your comparison. Delft has no above platforms. All trains drive through the tunnel. And by building that tunnel, Delft got far better connectivity within the city. Which imo is far more important than the views of passing railtravellers .
@@karegnal It’s not a perfect one to one, but I was pointing out how both projects involved shifting at least part of the mainline into the main station into a tunnel for better efficiency. We like efficiency, and I don’t think the tunnels should close, but the tunnels in Bologna are just regular tunnels aesthetically, so I think it would be more impressive of an entrance on the slower speed lines. I guess I also just want the US to do something like this instead of the American definition of more efficiency by adding more lanes.
I'm all for using mature platforms. But using completely stock design still feels underwhelming... Swedish X60 family, SJ's X40 and Arlanda Express's X3 are all based on Alstom Coradia but have distinct and beautifully designed frontends. They are much more pleasant in my opinion for train spotting
I find them uncomfortable to ride on. Much prefer the older ICR seats, the walkway between the seats is very narrow and the ride on those trains are usually less bumpy. The ICNG also makes quite a lot of noise in comparison to the older ICR. The entire HSL has cost us a lot of money and we don't really get what we payed for.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Delft campus isn’t a station people use for long distances. They will ultimately transfer at a station that does offers food selection.
@@Thom-TRA Cool. So if you want to try and be a pedantic dick to your viewers, it's best not to go halfway leaving out the Kiha 183s, the 489, 781, 381, 581-583-715s, the Kiha 261 & 281-283 DMUs..the precursors to all of them, the 481-483-485 EMUs introduced in 1964, the same year as the shinkansen was brought into service. All these models varied with multiple power supply, supporting AC and/or DC and differing frequencies due to Japan's east-west electrical grid divide, or diesel motive power. Many of which of course are developed or rebuilt from earlier models over 50+ years in services. And if you really want to go there, you could probably also consider the late 60s gas-turbine UAC Turbotrain with Amtrak and CN/VIA Rail. Of course none of these will be found in the Netherlands, making this little under sea-level country *UNIQUE*.
If purple means it’s an actual full‐blown stiltecoupé, where are the stickers on the doors and windows? (Not to pull your statement into question, because Lord knows NS are not exactly stellar about clearly marking their shut‐up compartments)
Tbh I really don’t like these trains. To me there are way too many seats situated on opposite of each other. A cosy more private set up misses too like separate cabins with 6 seats only. The most disturbing is the level of the floor. So many little step ups. If the cabins were made higher like the old fashioned ICR wagons, that would’ve added so much more comfort. Yes, ICNG is new and modern, but it lacks the comfort of the much preferable ICRs. Way less glass and a higher situated passenger cabin would’ve made this train perfect.
I don't really like the interior. It's too fragmented, unreliable and a bit flimsy. I just want normal seats in a row where you can sit in peace. Not a jumble of tables and seats all over the place. This might look nice as a design concept but it's an inefficient use of space.
What do you mean unreliable? And an interior doesn’t have to only be efficient, it has to be welcoming too. We’re people, not cattle. This isn’t Ryanair.
@@Thom-TRA The automatic Interior doors fail to open, foldable tables break. They get dirty quickly because the seats don't have rubbish bins. That kind of stuff. Mind you that these trains are brand new. They seem to be build to a price, not to last a few decades. The older NS designs are simpler but much tougher. I do like modern interiors a lot, but more in a traditional setting. This seems overly fussy. Style over function. Still, just my personal opinion 🙂
All these terribale steps inside also in places you don't expect them. The interior that looks so crappy with all the aluminium. Better custom made next time.
Hello, good video as many others….. I was curious whether or not you may decide to give us some of the particulars of the locomotives, I assume that pretty much all locomotives throughout Europe or electric, but for example, to give some details/particulars on these locomotives and train sets, as you have given a substantial bit of information with regards to the floor plan layout of the coaches… thanks again
@@Thom-TRA thank you for your reply. I guess more than anything as I was looking for the horsepower of the locomotives but thank you again for your reply. I enjoy the videos.
It might have taken a while for them to be delivered, but at least they fit the loading gauge unlike their French SNCF TER counterparts 😅.
lol true that was a crazy story
The train 'Regiolis' did fit the official Loading gauge. But some of the station were not. The Rolling stock they were replacing were longer and a bit thinner so some of the irregularities in the geometry of the station were missed (and apparently some were clearly out of the standards but too expensive for the Region to transform .... or the transformation was late). Most of the media jumped on Alstom at the time because it was a lot easier and Alstom was (and still is) in the middle of other PR s**tstorm.
I like NS's use of zoning in the train, especially on the doubledeckers where upstairs is the quiet zone (with row seating) and downstairs is the social zone (with quad seating and a sofa). But I think they went overboard with the ICNG. Three zones is overkill - most people aren't going to walk down the train to the zone reflecting their desired environment, so the effectiveness of the zones will be poor. At least if they stuck to two simple zones "quiet" and "not quiet" there's some chance people might move over into the next compartment if they want a different environment.
Yeah I don’t understand what the difference between work and quiet is tbh
@@Thom-TRA'Work' is bound to be more cooperative and more likely to involve phone usage than 'Quiet' \m/
Well here’s the rub: these ‘zones’ are, in the case of double deckers, merely suggestions. I once asked the conductor (to try to get a loud group to shut up) and he confirmed that no, only the zones marked as such are actual silence compartments, and the headphones icon really only means ‘p‐pwease remain quiet -oh, b‐ut only if you reeeeally want to’
I wish they had the balls to make the entire top half of the train a silence compartment *_and enforce it._* I don’t mind it when people are loud where they’re allowed, but so many people either ignore the signs until someone calls them out (I refuse to believe that more than one of the people who claimed so actually missed the signs) or they just keep talking and then when you call them out you’re the one who needs to shut their 🦀mouth. Sometimes I’m almost tempted to drop my education and go for conductor just so there’s one more staff member out there who gives a shit.
@@muncherofpizza no, the bottom floor should be quiet. I think it’s ridiculous they want to make the top the quiet zone. Kids like the top floor. I like to sit up there with my friends.
The people who want to read a book or work can sit on the bottom floor where the views are worse.
@@Thom-TRA For me it doesn’t matter as much which half is quit and which half is not; I just hate how NS is like ‘yea this is the place to be quiet’ and then add other places where you’re ‘politely asked’ to be quiet and then they enforce neither. I can’t speak for which half children love more, because as a kid I could never choose which half was cooler, since the fact it had two decks already took the spot for coolest thing ever.
Maybe the top zone is the quiet one because of the extra noise from the train itself down there, but Idk how much of a difference that makes.
These meet the absolute gold standard of accessibility ♿️... a Dalek could get on and off.
They look beautiful, and I also like that their exterior somewhat reminds of the NS trains of 30-40 years ago, de famous "Hondekoppen"
Pretty neat stuff. In Denmark we also have very much the same story. Order custom equipment time and time again, screw up with Ansaldo Breda, and then order Alstom Coradia streams. We're getting at least 100 5 car IC5's in Denmark, though recent statements suggest they may have increased the total order to 150 units. DSB plans to use theirs on everything from smaller sprinter style regionalservices, to cross country express trains. They went hard on a one size fits all approach. Ours have also been delayed, so far from 2024 to 2027.
Haha, the parallels are eerily similar!
They look like great trains! And your sweet review is just the ICNG on the cake! 🎂
Haha, good one!
Great to see some Dutch rail content! I rode Schiphol to Breda and then over to Tilburg for a now-legendary concert back in Sept. 2019, right before the pandemic.
I also love watching the Mierlo-Hout live railcam to get my "fix" of stop-trains and intercities, plus the random freight rolling through.
NS trains are awesome! It’s truly an experience to ride one the day after riding a Metra train in Chicago. I know it’s not a perfect comparison, but it’s like stepping into another dimension ;)
I get it! Metra trains are definitely as utilitarian as it gets
@@plamenivanov1506 hello I forgive me for not knowing, however your comment mentions “NS” trains…. What is an NS train… I’ve always correlated “NS” with Norfolk Southern:..
@@ConstContact it stands for Nederlandse Spoorwegen, and they are the main passenger rail operator in the Netherlands as far as I know.
@@plamenivanov1506 Thank You for enlightening me to the other usage of “NS”
I love how the color of the ceiling lights indicates which section of the train you’re in! Seems like a really simple system that could be implemented elsewhere!
As long as people know what they mean!
@@Thom-TRA True! Are there signs explaining the differences onboard?
@@29downtheline I've only been on these a few times, but there was no signage anywhere that I could find. I hope that gets added later.
@@29downtheline Nope. If you haven't had the colours explained to you by someone on the internet, they are essentially meaningless.
3:25 the doors opening chime kind of sounds like the chime for the national rail services in United Kingdom
It is the same sound all across Europe on all newer rolling stock. EU disability laws dictate how they should sound.
Wow Western European trains are straight outta the future, they look 50 years ahead of Amtrak, MARC or VRE.
The color coded sections are cool but how would they except a foreigner to know those rules, the quiet cars here are all marketed and usually the first in the consist.
In a dutch native & i didnt knew the colors meanings. To be fair i only rode the icng once. I generally try to be quiet anyway
As expensive as an underground central station is, I admire the Dutch for investing in that for Delft. Plus switching to existing "off the shelf" train stock is a smart idea. Thanks for showing us a bit of your native land! (And I'm envious of the NS network/OV-chipkaart system.)
The sets capable of running to Germany will likely run along the ICE line from Amsterdam to Düsseldorf or Cologne via Utrecht and Arnhem. At least it has been long planned to serve this route with additional trains and the Amsterdam - Berlin route will in future be run by the ICE L sets whenever they're ready so they're not really needed there
That’s what I think too. I don’t think they should go to Aachen unless it’s a direct service to Köln.
@@Thom-TRA Op het intranet van NS of een bestand dat daar op stond (weet niet meer precies welke) stond dat er plannen zijn om de ICNG in de toekomst naar Berlijn te laten rijden. Kon alleen een screenshot vinden van dat stukje tekst en niet het hele bestand helaas.
@@maxfunf Het zou jammer zijn als ze de ICE-L treinen op de IC Berlijn vervangen met ICNG materieel aangezien ze minder comfortabel zijn en dat ze maar 200 km/h kunnen in plaats van 230 km/h. De baanvaksnelheid tussen Hamburg en Berlijn is 250 km/h.
@@maxfunf Yeah I think I heard that as well somewhere before.
tbh though those two lines are basically the only ones where it would even make sense to run those trains. Potentially also on the Venlo - Viersen rail line in some form but for that it would first have to get the second track and who knows when or if ever thats gonna happen. For that we would need a competent transport minister first 😂🥲
My only complaint about ICNG is sometimes the motor can be noisy during acceleration & deacceleration, especially if you sit on top of the powered bogie. Also, it’s a pity it can’t exceed 200 km/h on the HSL line.
But apart from those, ICNG is a very neat train. It’s comfortable, spacious, and versatile. It’s also level boarding, so no more workout session in Schiphol with your luggage hahaha. I’ve tried Coradia train in Italy and Germany, and my expectation is high for ICNG in the future. And compared to the disastrous Fyra project, ICNG is a huge improvement!
I like the design of the carbody of these trains, and together with the “classical” color scheme the front section reminds me at the legendary hondekoppen and plan U and plan V trainsets that formed “the face” of NS back in the 1970ies (when I got in touch with this progressive railway system for the first time). This doesn’t wonder - was the design philosophy of those former NS trains the same as nowadays - crashworthyness and streamlining.
Wow you actually included the Italian train! Thanks! Also Great video as always!
I was lucky I had that footage!
In a few years we should see more or less this exact model in service as well: the Umbria and Tuscany regions have recently ordered from Alstom some so-called "200 km/h Pop" sets to operate some regional services that currently use parts of the Rome-Florence high-speed line. These services are the Florence-Rome, Ancona-Rome and Perugia-Rome, which currently use E464 engines with rather old carriages.
I'm not sure if those sets would need to be capable of running under 25 kV AC as well, as the high-speed line sections they would use have the older DC electrification and to my knowledge there are no plans to update it.
I always take it
Hopefully the German sets will run to Köln to get a better connection with the Rhur area.
An hourly service with the ICE would be amazing
Keep it up thom great video
Thanks!
Awesome video about an awesome train!!!
Thom, great video & the Netherlands🇳🇱 has its act together for what seems 1st class rail👍🏻
Sometimes they do 😂 sometimes it’s a mess
@@Thom-TRAtrue that 😂
@@Thom-TRA what govt organized mass transit isn’t? Remember, you ARE a displaced Chicagoan lol. Now here, as they try to consolidated Metra, CTA etc lol
Great idea the colour coding, only part NS forgot is to inform the passengers what they mean.
Typical
Woo! I'm going to be getting there just in time for the new ones.... Maybe I can take one to Köln next spring? There's a concert there I want to see..
TBH the old trains weren't *bad*, but these are NICE. Looking forward to racking some miles.
I am glad that these seem to be good trains. We are about to get a ton of Coradia HCs in Germany in the next years
I’m excited to see them. I remember really liking the Siemens Desiro HC. And NS is getting something very similar from CAF.
Holy shit this those trains are fast
Also I really like a video about NS trains!
I rode them recently as well! (Twice now), AMAZING!!!!
Awesome! What’s your favorite part?
@@Thom-TRA the colored lights and the power is just not compared to other NS trains
I love the look of these trains and you can clearly tell these were built by Alstom because of the nose design reminds me somewhat of the avelia
5:16 You remind me of Pat Carney.
God, watching videos about European trains makes me so unbelievably jealous. 200kph intercity trains. Brand new fully electric train sets. Clean bathrooms. International trips with no border checks. The dream. . :
I know right. Sometimes I think I should move back lol. Maybe when I finish seeing everything here.
And yet most of my fellow dutchy's complain a lot about our railway system, even if a lot of those complaints make no sense.
@@cptDutch ik heb zelf anders ook wel een aantal klachten over NS hoor. Alleen omdat sommige dingen goed zijn betekent niet dat we niet mogen klagen wat niet goed is.
Ik zeg ook niet dat alle klachten ongegrond zijn, maar wel veel.
Dat bijvoorbeeld de infrastructuur in slechte staat is en daardoor de maximale snelheid niet gehaald kan worden is beschamend. Maar er zijn sommige die er lustig op los klagen over onbelangrijke rand zaken zoals onbrekende usb stopcontacten in sprinters (die de meesten nooit nodig hebben) terwijl we een van de beste spoorwegen hebben ter wereld.
We zijn ontzettend verwend geraakt.
The beauty of european trains makes me want to cry, especially when I consider our clunky-dunky amtrak trains.
Umm, I take offense to that because I ride Amtrak and your clunky dunky Amtrak train statement.
It's funny seeing these trains as I couldn't work out where I saw them before but alas it was on UA-cam & a dedicated channel I watch called "live feed zandvoort" 😂 knew they looked familiar.
You really can find everything on UA-cam lol
This year I traveled with the Trenitalia ETR 700 (the previous Fyra) for the first time. Just comparing both trains, does feel like we are missing out on something in the Netherlands..
I see these trains in Braunschweig, D. I hope, I can film one of these, when they go to the Netherlands
Thom, these trains resemble Amtrak's Avelia trains!!
Same manufacturer
@@Thom-TRA Yes, and the Avelia trains are supposed to start passenger service within the next few months!!
Great video
Great review, I really like the interior of these trains, I wish Amtrak here in the states would adopt something like this instead of the austere and outdated grey on grey seen on the new venture coaches. Maybe someday Amtrak, maybe someday...
It is just a shame that the ICNG is severely under-powered. They only have 3,390kW in the 8 car version. So they accelerate like a slug to 200km/h. A Stadler Flirt200 of the same size would have 6,000kW of power in a 8 car version.
5-car ICNG is 2,545kW vs 5-car Flirt200 is 4500kW.
I scratch my head sometimes and wonder why they chose this of all trains.
@@Thom-TRA It seems to stem from olden times when NS had to limit the power due to the low 1500V DC overhead wire. They had to limit the power so you wouldn't get too high amperage drawn from the pantograph. I believe there is a limit of about 3000A before you melt the overhead wire and pantograph. But today you can limit the power with electronics when driving under 1500V DC, and then have all the power available when driving under 25kV AC on the HSL. That is how the Traxx works. That is limited to 4000kW under 1500V and full 5600kW under 15/25kV.
And the Traxx outperforms the ICNG by a mile.
Very good Thom!
Thanks!
It would be great if these trains could run at 300 kph that would be amazing
While that's true, the longest trip this train takes is between Brussels and Amsterdam, and it's only 10 minutes slower than Eurostar/Thalys. Not a lot of benefit for a lot of added maintenance.
Those are nice trains alright! My favorite color is blue meaning I’d choose from one of those seats. But most importantly I’d rather stick with the cheapest option of whichever train car it is, anywhere on the train and no matter the amount of train cars there is on each set.
Thanks for your take, one to add to the list of rides to take - reckon the 'German' sets would be useful backup for the ICE L to Berlin, alternatively might be useful on the Köln-Frankfurt NBS \m/
I’m hoping for some reinforcements on the corridor to Köln
@@Thom-TRA maybe have ICNG as the semi-fast and ICE L as topspeed service? \m/
I think that Japan and the Netherlands are the only countries that have,or had,those driving cabs on top of the train.Well in general service at least as I think that a few other nations have tinkered with prototypes which never got anywhere.
They’re very cool. I’m glad Japan is still building them.
VIA Turbotrain 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🥳🥳🥳
@@jasperlioh my god I was racking my brain trying to think of examples outside NL or JP and I forgot my own country
Very nice trains.
I can say "to the trains" in dutch. Naar de treinen. I learned it in 2012 on my first visit there when i was 8
Nice job!
Will you please do a review on the brand new coaster commuter train?
If I ever make it to San Diego I will
SD resident here. You mean the 4 more trains a day that they added to the schedule? The new schedule doesn't really look much different except the new late night trains.
@@Thom-TRAwait a bit and you will be able to try the "new" MTS Copper Line in inland east county too
@@Thom-TRA Ok please do!
Nice to know that Norfolk Sou... oh it's not that NS it's Nederlandse Spoorwegen got some neat looking trains
Haha the two NSes should have a competition to see who is worse
@@Thom-TRA that would be funny
One of the world's best railways vs one of the worst... I wonder who would win
@@OntarioTrafficMan probably the Dutch NS
Good video Tom. I am curious if i ever ride these trains. Living in Zuid-Limburg right on the German border its far more convenient to go to a big city as Köln in Germany, then for example Den Bosch in the Netherlands. In Germany DB has great ticket offers like the NRW-ticket or the Deutschland-ticket that make traintravelling far much cheaper then in the Netherlands. NS has some special tickets too, but by a long way not as attractive. Greatings from Eygelshoven, Ralf
I love how far you can go for cheap in Germany
Dedication zones by colour lights is very smart and creative idea. Nature in the toilet also looks peaceful and nice.
Other things in this train looks like ordinary european suburban train but with higher speed, I think it is just a workhorse train for intercity commuting.
Are there power sockets and usb-chargers in this train?
Yes, we show them in one of the clips!
Manufactured in Chorzów, Poland in a former tram factory.
Are you going to do a video on the Caltrain KISS EMU’s that have just gone into service?
👀👀
Ik ging vroeger naar werk met die treindienst, maar gewoon tussen Delft en Den Haag CS. Ik wist niet dat er al ICNG's op dat traject rijden, hebben ze al alle ICR treinen tussen Amsterdam en Breda vervangen? (behalve de treinen die naar Brussel doorrijden)
Volgens mij nog niet, maar zijn ze alvast begonnen met de 1100
@@Thom-TRADat is interessant. Ik had verwacht dat ze zouden zoveel mogelijk de ICNG tussen Schiphol en Rotterdam laten rijden omdat de Traxx tegenwoordig vaak vertraging heeft door die verzakte brug op de HSL. De ICNG kan tijd inhalen door 200 te rijden ipv de geplande 160
I also can't tell you exactly, why the NS has ordered the NL-DE Coradia Streams, but I can speculate: The VRS, the german transport agency for the Bonn-Köln-Aachen-region, has made demands for an an Intercity/Regional Express between Amsterdam and Köln via Eindhoven and Aachen. For such a, by the german side co-financed, train, the Coradia Streams would be the perfect vehicles.
The challenge with running ICNGs on Amsterdam-Eindhoven-Köln is that the Amsterdam-Eindhoven segment is extremely busy so they normally need double decker trains. Maybe if they schedule the Köln trains to run right behind a train to Maastricht there's some chance they could make it through the Amsterdam-Eindhoven corridor without getting massively overcrowded
Ok, now do Canada (great trains, not ancient ones)! Great video Thom and Bear. ❤
I have a bunch more Canadian content coming
Wonder If We Will Get Trains This Nice In USA 🇺🇸 Outstanding Video 😊
I think we’re on the right track
Small correction, the last train that the NS designed was not the Fyra V250. It was the DM '90. The NS did away with its design bureau after that because it needed to be profitable by 2000 as part of its 'privatisation' (verzelfstandiging). No technical failures led to the end of the NS' own designs.
Correction to your correction: I never said that NS designed the V250. I actually never mention NS designing their own trains.
I said that the V250s were custom-built, which they were, and that after their malfunction, NS switched to off-the-shelf products.
Please listen to what I actually say before you “correct” me.
4:32 AFAIK the colours aren't explained anywhere on board the train itself, or on the platform for that matter. No text or pictograms anywhere to indicate the quiet area. Which makes it pretty impossible to enforce, because nobody knows what those ^%$# colours mean, if they haven't looked it up in some third-party source like this video.
Yeah typical NS move
Thom, tell 'em to send a few (dozen) of those trains to the US.
I’ll do my best!
And do what? Don't think they come in a diesel variant 😁
Does a Bear shit in the woods?? 🤣🤣
I thought that was pretty funny haha
Ooooooo, level boarding! I was kind of shocked at the state of coaches serving Schiphol - climbing up 3 or 4 really narrow steps with a pair of suitcases is not fun, and the vestibule doors were sized to give a broomstick a tight pass.
Yeah the doors on the old trains are no joke! All the local trains (sprinter) have level boarding now which is good.
Ooh the new train looks cool. If only Amtrak did color coding. Aw did you find the charging plugs on this train?
They are underneath the seats (finally 😂).
Does a bear s*** in the woods? Yes it does if the train bathroom has a nice forest design on it. In the reality, he'd get booted off the train because he got no ticket.
Brilliant video, btw polar bears do not shit in the woods lol.
Good point
He cut the SBB car at 0:13. Unforgivable crime 😞
Check out my second channel for the full clip!
These Coradias always seem like slightly souped up FLIRTs. Maybe Stadler needs to boost their stuff, so it can also find a role as a high speed intercity train...
Stadler does make high speed intercity trains
To add to what Thom said, Stadler has made 200 km/h FLIRT trains for NSB in Norway and MTR in Sweden.
@@nolunchiseverfree Stadler make the Flirt200 and Kiss200 that both leave the Coradia in the dust. Quicker and more powerful.
5:25. Dit is het enige wat ik wat minder vind aan de ICNG. Het toilet is vrij krap, dus je krijgt een beetje een claustrofobisch gevoel
En:
This is my only con with the ICNG. The standard toilets are a bit too small and you it gives a claustrofobic feeling
As on other videos of these trains, there seem to be a whole lot of unnecessary obstacles to easy access through the train; narrow aisles, steps that go up and down, and lots and lots of internal doors that don't really seem completely essential. And bike space seems remarkably limited for a Dutch train
Many Dutch people have bikes where they live and where they work. It’s honestly too much of a hassle to bring it on the train. I for one hate doing it.
Does NS have any plans to acquire 300 km/h-capable trainsets in the future, whether for domestic or international service? It seems like a shame that only trains from other operators can take full advantage of the infrastructure.
I don’t believe they have any plans to do so
NS is not in the business of long-distance services outside of the country. When they run on high-speed lines they tend to operate the 'local' service (by high-speed standards) stopping at all the minor stations along the high speed line. So there's not much point in going faster than about 200-230 km/h anyway.
The Dutch government is not satisfied with the NS about their high-speed service. Partly because of the delay in delivering the new NS trains. That is why the government is going to allow more 'foreign' companies on the Dutch high-speed line for more competition. The Italian railway company Ferrovie Dello Stato has indicated its intentions to run the Frecciarossa trains from Amsterdam to Paris, Eindhoven and Berlin by 2027. Arriva, part of Deutsche Bahn, has also indicated that it wants to run a high-speed service between Groningen and Amsterdam and Amsterdam to Paris.
The tunnel in Delft is a lot like they did with the high speed line in Bologna, Italy, where they put the high speed train station in a tunnel under Centrale station, while slower trains use the older above ground platforms. I have mixed opinions about this, because it boosts the efficiency of the whole station at the cost of a worse entry to the city for the high speed passengers, since you could’ve gotten to see the city before arriving, but you get a tunnel instead. Even airport passengers get a better arrival, thanks to the Marconi Express monorail thing from the airport to Centrale.
Sorry, I do not understand your comparison. Delft has no above platforms. All trains drive through the tunnel. And by building that tunnel, Delft got far better connectivity within the city. Which imo is far more important than the views of passing railtravellers .
@@karegnal It’s not a perfect one to one, but I was pointing out how both projects involved shifting at least part of the mainline into the main station into a tunnel for better efficiency. We like efficiency, and I don’t think the tunnels should close, but the tunnels in Bologna are just regular tunnels aesthetically, so I think it would be more impressive of an entrance on the slower speed lines. I guess I also just want the US to do something like this instead of the American definition of more efficiency by adding more lanes.
Speaking of Delft, they just opened a second tunnel last week, so there are now 4 tracks instead of 2.
I'm all for using mature platforms. But using completely stock design still feels underwhelming... Swedish X60 family, SJ's X40 and Arlanda Express's X3 are all based on Alstom Coradia but have distinct and beautifully designed frontends. They are much more pleasant in my opinion for train spotting
I AGREE! I’m so tired of seeing the same FLIRTs and LINTs no matter where I go
I find them uncomfortable to ride on. Much prefer the older ICR seats, the walkway between the seats is very narrow and the ride on those trains are usually less bumpy. The ICNG also makes quite a lot of noise in comparison to the older ICR. The entire HSL has cost us a lot of money and we don't really get what we payed for.
no cafe car?
The distances in the Netherlands are way too short and the trains way too busy to justify a cafe car. Plus, you can buy food at every station.
@@Thom-TRA Where can I buy food at Delft Campus?
@@OntarioTrafficMan Delft campus isn’t a station people use for long distances. They will ultimately transfer at a station that does offers food selection.
Can’t really call these high speed as this is now 150 mph or above. This is 240 kph.
Mooie treinen, helaas geen fatsoenlijke rails in Nederland waar 300 km/uur gereden kan worden. Kostbare aanschaf, niet voor de higspeed!
Thom how long have you lived in America.
6 years
@@Thom-TRA You have lost all of your European accent
@@WilliamPickard-eo4xt I never had one to begin with.
@@Thom-TRA Sorry
Japan has had dozens of cabover 'koploper' design EMUs since the 1960s and even a few DMUs. They're hardly unique.
Cool. So you know about the 351, E353, E259, 651, 285, 287, 271, 273, 681, and 683 series.
Now show me on a map where in Europe Japan is.
@@Thom-TRA Cool. So if you want to try and be a pedantic dick to your viewers, it's best not to go halfway leaving out the Kiha 183s, the 489, 781, 381, 581-583-715s, the Kiha 261 & 281-283 DMUs..the precursors to all of them, the 481-483-485 EMUs introduced in 1964, the same year as the shinkansen was brought into service. All these models varied with multiple power supply, supporting AC and/or DC and differing frequencies due to Japan's east-west electrical grid divide, or diesel motive power. Many of which of course are developed or rebuilt from earlier models over 50+ years in services. And if you really want to go there, you could probably also consider the late 60s gas-turbine UAC Turbotrain with Amtrak and CN/VIA Rail. Of course none of these will be found in the Netherlands, making this little under sea-level country *UNIQUE*.
If purple means it’s an actual full‐blown stiltecoupé, where are the stickers on the doors and windows? (Not to pull your statement into question, because Lord knows NS are not exactly stellar about clearly marking their shut‐up compartments)
Tbh I really don’t like these trains. To me there are way too many seats situated on opposite of each other. A cosy more private set up misses too like separate cabins with 6 seats only. The most disturbing is the level of the floor. So many little step ups. If the cabins were made higher like the old fashioned ICR wagons, that would’ve added so much more comfort. Yes, ICNG is new and modern, but it lacks the comfort of the much preferable ICRs. Way less glass and a higher situated passenger cabin would’ve made this train perfect.
4:47 rude!
a little more critique on what you dislike would be cool.
Watch the older video and you’ll find critique to your heart’s content
I would have expected somewhat more first class
Like what?
At least its not Deutsche Bahn...
Delft? Will that train take you to China? 🍽️🙄
Tunnels … in the Netherlands? How there is not a single mountain in the Netherlands
Neither are there in New York City but there’s hundreds of miles of tunnels there. Aka you don’t need mountains to have tunnels.
VAM-Berg enters the chat \m/
I don't really like the interior. It's too fragmented, unreliable and a bit flimsy. I just want normal seats in a row where you can sit in peace. Not a jumble of tables and seats all over the place. This might look nice as a design concept but it's an inefficient use of space.
What do you mean unreliable? And an interior doesn’t have to only be efficient, it has to be welcoming too. We’re people, not cattle. This isn’t Ryanair.
@@Thom-TRA The automatic Interior doors fail to open, foldable tables break. They get dirty quickly because the seats don't have rubbish bins. That kind of stuff. Mind you that these trains are brand new. They seem to be build to a price, not to last a few decades. The older NS designs are simpler but much tougher. I do like modern interiors a lot, but more in a traditional setting. This seems overly fussy. Style over function. Still, just my personal opinion 🙂
All these terribale steps inside also in places you don't expect them. The interior that looks so crappy with all the aluminium. Better custom made next time.
Aluminum?
Hello, good video as many others….. I was curious whether or not you may decide to give us some of the particulars of the locomotives, I assume that pretty much all locomotives throughout Europe or electric, but for example, to give some details/particulars on these locomotives and train sets, as you have given a substantial bit of information with regards to the floor plan layout of the coaches… thanks again
Feel free to Google such information, there are many valuable resources.
These can take 1500V and 25000V.
@@Thom-TRA thank you for your reply. I guess more than anything as I was looking for the horsepower of the locomotives but thank you again for your reply. I enjoy the videos.