Westerners are very wrong. they think that if they have good idea, good plan, good skill, good team , work hard ,.......then they will be successful in business. This is not correct. Remember of 100 new businesses, only 10-20 are successful , 30-40 are average (neither good nor bad) ,10- 50 fail. One Vietnamese saying: humans start new idea-God decides success. I am P&G Buddhist sales manager. I start new business . I have good idea, good plan, good skill, good team , work hard ,....... but I pray Buddha to help me everyday, i read Buddha teachings everyday and i pray for dead souls at my business place....not only living humans but also dead souls help me in my business. that's why i am always successful in my business. Namo Amitabha .
The Dorje shugden controversy as it is often referred to has made Dorje Shugden to be one of the most well known Buddhist deities in the world. So thank you HH Dalai Lama is all i can say! You made DS famous!
HH dalai lama is our example, we tibetan must try to reach all oversea chinese intelluctuals, students, minorities and free thinkers and build a united understanding.
I agree SIR, most people don't. He is not speaking for or against china, in order to understand Him you have to have a Higher Level of Counsciousness, wich you don't, i am not offending or critizing anyone, we grow on the path we choose.
celebrity "holy" people do serve a function. they give us a "feel good"fuzzy feeling and make us feel closer to holiness when we "revere"them. but perhaps real "holiness" is closer to home. those common people among us who make sacrifices everyday for the good of others. those people who volunteer, who help the eldery neighbor. who expect nothing in return and their good work is hidden out of sight forever.
His Holiness takes great pride in stating that the Tibetan Tradition is the Indian "Nalanda Tradition". In other words stemming from the great ancient University in India which great masters are from like Arya Nagarjuna and Master Chandrakirti.
To be precise, Buddhism is the anatomy of living beings. Regardless of one's religion, a living being's life is judged upon by a set of principles. Those principle's were NOT invented by Budda. In fact, they are Universal thruth's (of nature) that Buddha realized himself. One of those is the pinciple of "Cause an Effect".
Om Mani padme Hum (Tibetan Buddhism) is more well-known in Westerner countries like USA. There are actually many Buddhism main-stream Teachings in the whole world. Myself personally attached to Namo Amitabha.
i think we had pretty much the same conversation a while back so that gives the impression that we are just rehashing the same thing -- having said that, i think the more u know about the history of a given religion, and how it could be corrupted, the better it is for the believers, for they would be aware of the pitfalls, they can better concentrate on the good points of the religion and shun the potential bad. (if you want to be religious that is)
"Really though, I'm not being intentionally obtuse with you. Just giving you my thoughts. :)" no you are not obtuse at all, i just feel like we had this conversation all before, and i already talked about what about buddhist teaching bothers me the most -- it's the repetitiveness that got to me, especially since im pretty tired today. but no worries!
Well, I'm not trying to convince you and I shouldn't have sounded so partisan with my reply. I just wanted to have a conversation, in the hope we both would improve our minds. Thank you for replying.
Love Tibet, Love China, Love USA, Love Japan, Love France, Love UK, Love India, Love Australia, Love Pakistan, Love Russia, Love Me Tender, Love Dalai - if He don't Lie
apparently Kache Marpo said that Dorje Shugden practitioners would not have the resources to promote Dorje Shugden as much as the DS controversy has. Which is true. The controversy - the Dalai Lama's ban, the protests of the WSS et al - has gotten Dorje Shugden on CNN, Time magazine etc!! Not too shoddy for a 300 year old Dharma Protector! :)
i caught the tongue in cheek. i was not holding dalai lama " personally " responsible for all the heinous crimes of the past, i thought that was obvious. i was just pointing out that the fact that he is a dalai lama, the representative of BUDDHISM is what is giving him the title "his holiness" and that in fact, the term "holy" rings hollow for more reasons than one. ie. he is just an ordinary human being. nothing holy about him or the religious group in Tibet he represents.
OK i got you. chill out man, take it slow i don't worship Dalia lama i just take his advice and wisdom to be a better person. i respect him. i also respect your view as well. take care peace
no sane person would want to perpetuate theocracy. the fact that his stance has changed in the past 10 years is understandable, especially with all the press that the problem has gotten. and it makes him human, not particularly holy.
i have problems with karmic retribution that is taught in buddhism though, it is a buddhist theory that has helped the monks justify their superior status and oppress the common people in the same way catholic church oppressed the people in middle ages. in the case of buddhism, the theory of reincarnation and karmic retribution supports and argues for the status quo in society, which i think is extremely dangerous.
"Its like if someone said "You're descended from white plantation owners from colonial US? Do you have ANY IDEA what those people DID to their slaves?" ??? Isn't that EXACTLY why we no longer have slavery? and we don't worship the descendants of slave owners nor the slave owners as being "HOLY"? you are just proving my point again.
i know i will probably get a lot of thumbs down for this post, but very often when a select person becomes a celebrity for being holy, they are not the holiest of us. dalai lama and mother teresa included. the "holiest"of us i find are those who give all they have in obscurity, those that truly work to help the needy in their small way. those people we never hear about. do some research on these so-called "holy people" fee good PR does not equal holy
@metalshredhead1 an even bigger problem is that Christianity has actually condoned the killing of babies before (even in the bible). In Buddhism, killing is considered evil. In Christianity, killing is encouraged
yeah, it shoudl be easy to just stop responding, but when i'm accused of doing something which i'm not, i still feel the need to set the record straight :( having said it, if you get some benefit frm buddhist teachings, then go for it. it's your personal choice, and i think parts of the teachings could work well for self betterment, certainly.
it's not there mistake that they become like celebrities(not really celebrity)media,reporter and public realize there goodness and trying to show world that people can also better person. you don't have to look at that person's religion but do more research at what are they trying to achieve or help. it doesn't matter whether you r Buddhist or christian.
So it's not just public accountability, but the modern concept that all man have equal rights unburdened by "karmic retribution" and privileges of "reincarnation" which is a highly "un-buddhist" concept which is of main importance here, in paving the road for a demoncratic Tibet.
and just as catholicism, as the major religion in the west, oppressed people in unherad of ways, so has buddhism, as the major power relgion in asia over thousands of years, was directly reponsible for as much atrocities as catholicism is in the west. Dalai Lama is exiled by the Communist China, but before china invaded tibet (i'm also against this invasion) how the lamas ruled tibet would bring tears to your eyes, if u have any compassion... :_(
Not a single country was perfect before, and not a single country is really perfect now. but the kinds of heinous activity did not go on in every country especially as early as 20th century. spanish inquisition was a 15th century nightmare. if dalai lama is revered because he is a famed buddhist monk, well then u can see how enlightened buddhism was well into the 20th century. making apologies does not change fact.
whereas the horrors of the spanish inquisition, the sins of the vatican, and the holocaust are well documented and better known, the horrific sins of the tibetan monks are much less known. in fact, the opposite holds true: there are many people who assume that it was some kind of a peace loving shangri-la. i think it's always important to know the truth and to not put any one person or any one religion on a pedestal. all religion is man made, imperfect and infinitely corruptible.
I've heard this said before however I'm not sure of the truth in this statement, But let's say for the sake of arguement that it's true can you please tell me what it proves about the Dalai Lama?
Actually the abuse went on quite publicly in Tibet under theocracy -- it was justified under karmic retribution/reincarnation. When they maimed and sexually abused the serfs, they did not particularly try to hide it from the other 95% who were equally abused. Under their religion, and their religious "logic"of karmic retribution/reincarnation, the monks and the Lamas had every right to do as they wished. The serfs did not even have the right to look above the knee of their oppressors.
hey btw, i'm pretty tired right now and my last post wasn't supposed to be an insult :( anyway i have to rush off... i know u mean well and i wish you luck with your quest for your own enlightenment. :)
"the original belief is not automatically faulty. That is my only point to you." the original reincarnation/karmic retribution in this case, is faulty to begin with. that's my point. i'm not saying all buddhists are evil, but the buddhism as a man made religion is not a perfect system.
when he was a young man in tibet, he thought all the injustice was "normal"since it did not go against the buddhist teachings of karmic retribution. how the serfs were totally oppressed and they were severely punished if they dared to look above the knee of the monks. when western people came to visit he had to pretend like it wasn't what was going on there, becuase he knew that they would be outraged/shocked if they found out. do some research.
i am saying that i do not see any evidence that dalai lama is so holy. and i have given my reasons. if even with all these reasons you choose to worship dalai lama, fine. go for it. if you want to continue making excuses and go for it, it's your choice. I for one, see him quite differently. anyway good luck with your love for the dalai. i know it feels good to love and worship for the reasons i've alredy outlined, so i'm sure you will enjoy your choice. Peace.
others would be wrong to say so about them listen, obviously you like these people after knowing all the FACTS and that's your prerogative. i don't think so, is all.
good for you. it's your personal choice. for me, the stuff about reincarnation turns me off. not discounting all buddhist teachings though. there's soemthing good in every religion i believe. (though i'mnot religious)
well we should be more reasonable. the fact is when Dalia lama is throned he was just 16 and at that time Tibetan didn't had any relationship with others and obviously lack in modern technology. i am 100% sure that if Tibetan are independent now they live much much better than now under Chinese occupation. at least there will be right to live the way you want.
"My issue with what you're saying is that you seem focused on PEOPLE, whereas I'm focused on the actual teachings of Buddhism." The teaching of reincarnation/karmic retribution that not only enabled but justified the horrific abuse of the serfs IS part of the buddist teaching whether u like it or not. please read thru my posts and don't make me repeat myself.
? well as an atheist i think all religion is pretty much like one another. i'm not against buddhism any more than any other religion. though the atrocities of christianity is well documented, buddhist atrocities is not as well documented, and gives the inaccurate view of that ONE religion that was peace loving and just. setting the record straight is all i'm intersted in. for me it's not the religion but HOW you believe. no religion is superior to another
Not at all. I'm also incensed by the holocaust and the spanish inquisition. I'm a humanist and am affected by all heinous crimes against humanity. Like many other people until recently I was sold on the buddhist propagana and had wrongly "assumed"that unlike christianity, buddhism did not have so much blood on its hands, and only learned the truth as I began to do actual research. And what I unearthed disgusted and horrified me, just as it should any human being.
A serial killer does not likely get *any* happiness from killing. It is merely an attempt to satisfy a craving which will never be satiated -- the very definition of suffering....always more to get, always something to do, never a gap of peace in between. Also, in some cases, such a person has a mental disease which should have been treated with medication long ago. Either case, not happiness from killing, but sad addition which very sadly also affects many others.
the present day lamas are acknowledging that those things were "unacceptable" to say the least -- under WHAT conditions? that's the important factor to consider here. i'm all for their reconsidering their position of course, but if there was no invasion by china, if there was no international scrutiny, would they havebeen as open to changing their way of thinking? hm... to second guess would be a waste of time...
have you been to those poor asian countries where people are starving and you have huge pure gold budda statues stacked up impressively in buddhist temples? it's quite impressive, and immoral too, i might add.
Wow. Track record at 4? High standards. HH Dalai Lama had the most rigorous of training as a child.. he is considered an authority in pretty much all things Tibetn Buddhism. That's just how it is. He is the head of the Gelugpa's. He has to be an egghead :)
Hell is an illusion,and because of this,your words frighten only yourself,and those people with similar delusions.I hope that you find peace my friend.
don't get me wrong, i'm against the chinese ooccupation of tibet, but 95% of the serf population DO live tons better under the chinese occupation than they did under dalai lama. having said that i still say free tibet, get rid of oppressive theocracy, free tibet from BOTH theocracy and chinese occupation - i supoort dalai only in as much as the chinese ocupation should end (though that's not what he is calling for any more being politicaly astute)
"I don't believe the Dalai Lama or any other Tibetan Lama (that I've ever heard) claims to be such themselves. (Though certainly others might say it about them)" do you knwo ANYTHINHG about tibetan buddhism? the very reason why they were able to wield such ABSOLUTE POWER including mutilation and murder of peasants is because the dalai lama was supposed to be a divine reincarnation of whatever other lama who was worshipped.
it's too bad that the karmic retribution/reincarnation theory actualy seems to promote oppression, if u accept it in any way. have u done any research on tibet under the lamas?
we have to learn from the past, and it was NOT a distant past. To say that it happened in the past so it's *less valid* displays a fallacy of thought. Einstein did not subscribe to any particular religion contrary to popular belief. His main point was that we needed to be humble, and religious people are anything but that, since they think they know the key to the universe. i will leave it to your ample imagination as to my standpoint in buddhism.
dalai lama was a slave owner feudal lord, then an CIA funded separatist during the Cold War, and now he is wolf dressed in sheep skin. life under dalai lama's feudal theocracy was like hell on earth, where 80 to 90% of the population was slaves and serfs, all the land of tibet was owned by 200 super rich aristocratic families and lamas.
No it's not "their mistake" but u should read up on dalai lama and how he was under CIA's payroll, when that scandal dried up the cia funds he learned the Scientologist approach real quick and started approaching celebrity buddhists (like richard gere) i'm non religious person but i used to give these religious celebrities the benefit ofthe doubt i'm pretty much disillusioned with mother teresa as well at this point.
i didn't understand what that mean (his exile to the EVIL WEST enlightened him finally?)yeah i agree that at that time government was pretty screwed up and Dalia lama didn't had too much power but i think if Chinese didn't invade Tibet at that time it's gonna be better country. not a single country was perfect before and Tibet was just about to come out from that shell but didn't get the chance.
i am not saying that slave is right. obviously slave is wrong and we have to get rid of it. it happened in the past. infact i did lot of research do you know that Albert Einstein said science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind and If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.i am sorry if i am pissing you off but that the fact.i didn't get you u r not opposing Dalia lama then r u saying that Buddhism is bad?
I'm sorry, but so far all the objections you are raising are really not pertinent to the points I'm making much less negate them. If I stop responding to your posts, please understand that I'm not being rude. And do research on your own. Peace.
so that just proves my main point, which is there's nothing inherently holy about buddhism or buddhists. also as i said before, it's not just public accountability, as their heinous crimes were perfectly justified under the teachings of buddha (karmic retribution/reincarnation) so we need public accountability PLUS modernity which is unfettered by such archaic and anti-humanist dogma.
yes, we should be more reasonable. and it's not reasonable to think that just because they lacked in modern technology it justified the monks running the country like a sadistic camp. i'm not blaming dalai personally for ALL THE ills, since he was born into the system. and his exile in the west opened his eyes more to the ills of his country i'm sure. but isn't it ironical that his exile to the EVIL WEST enlightened him finally? and not all that meditation and chanting and buddhist ideology?
maybe if you figure out why you think your life suck, you can get butt off the couch and do something about it. Life sucks or not is a perception of your mind. I sure there are millions of people around the world just dreaming to have the life and opportunities that you have currently.
Very broad and dichotomous theological implications in what he says. The purpose of life is happiness. Who would ever say they don't want to be happy? And yet Jesus Christ came to suffer and die. That's basic Christian doctrine. Another dichotomy is believers in an ultimate creator and those that believe in self creation. Who reading this is truly conscious or believing that they created themselves? Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace but division. I think HH agrees here.
first of all, secular systems do not pretend to be HOLY. nor are they seen to be so. my point is that there's nothing holy about religions either. if you disagree with that after all this MOUNTAIN of evidence over history, that's you. (and many many other religious sympathizers)
" Its like if someone said "You're descended from white plantation owners from colonial US? Do you have ANY IDEA what those people DID to their slaves?" 1) are you saying here that we should not teach children about the horrors of slavery in america? that we should not teach history? (different from laying blame, but TEACHING history) 2) i'm not trying to teach dalai lama the history of tibet. i woudln't need to do it - he lived IN the system til the age of 16. your analgy doesn't work.
though buddhsim never said it my point is that the teaching of karmic retribution and reincarnation blames the victims for their pain and misery. so it JUSTIFIES victimization of the less weak by the strong. that is simply WRONG. that part of buddhism i definitely DO NOT condone, not under any pretext. and it's certainly not holy.
you are not listening to what i'm saying i'm saying that no one group of people or entity should be worshipped as HOLY. the US governemnt is deeply flawed and far from perfect. obviously it's not holy
You saying life under His Holiness is hell on earth,eh? Then describe the life under People's Republic of China or the Communist Party of China. Describe what really happened during the Tiananmen Square. So please don't blame on him being CIA funded separatist. Tibet was never a part of China and never will be.
Wow, that's nice. Trying to suggest that the Dalai Lama ordered a hit on a political opponent? That's pretty laughable. Sorry. If you ever met a Lama, well, this just wouldn't cross your mind.
u are no more pissing me off than i am pissing you off. einstein, bless his soul was a great genius but he was not a specialist in buddhism. he did not know anything about reincarnation and all the mysticism that buddhism submitted to. in any case there's no record of einstein becoming a buddhist -- if he really thought buddhism was all that he would definitely have done more.
![Buddha's Teachings at a Monastery in New York [Finding Faith]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/72uAX2U1tsk/mqdefault.jpg)
Hearing his Holiness speak warms my heart and gives me the confidence and happiness to make my life better.
Thank you Dalai Lama
Became a Buddhist in 2005 and it has helped me change my life for the absolute better.
I'm a Native American and I converted to Buddhism in 2001. I have never been happier.
Westerners are very wrong. they think that if they have good idea, good plan, good skill, good team , work hard ,.......then they will be successful in business. This is not correct. Remember of 100 new businesses, only 10-20 are successful , 30-40 are average (neither good nor bad) ,10- 50 fail. One Vietnamese saying: humans start new idea-God decides success. I am P&G Buddhist sales manager. I start new business . I have good idea, good plan, good skill, good team , work hard ,....... but I pray Buddha to help me everyday, i read Buddha teachings everyday and i pray for dead souls at my business place....not only living humans but also dead souls help me in my business. that's why i am always successful in my business. Namo Amitabha .
Every word from His Highness can change your life
The Dorje shugden controversy as it is often referred to has made Dorje Shugden to be one of the most well known Buddhist deities in the world. So thank you HH Dalai Lama is all i can say! You made DS famous!
i love listening to him talk.
Yay! I liked the last 2 minutes (or so) best.
Warm heart.
i loooooooooooooooove him!!!
HH dalai lama is our example, we tibetan must try to reach all oversea chinese intelluctuals, students, minorities and free thinkers and build a united understanding.
I agree SIR, most people don't.
He is not speaking for or against china, in order to understand Him you have to have a Higher Level of Counsciousness, wich you don't, i am not offending or critizing anyone, we grow on the path we choose.
he blinks amazingly often...
long live his holiness the dalia lama.
kyap so che
To the dude below me; thank you for proving that even if wrong, Buddhism is good
Love this guy
celebrity "holy" people do serve a function. they give us a "feel good"fuzzy feeling and make us feel closer to holiness when we "revere"them. but perhaps real "holiness" is closer to home. those common people among us who make sacrifices everyday for the good of others. those people who volunteer, who help the eldery neighbor. who expect nothing in return and their good work is hidden out of sight forever.
His Holiness takes great pride in stating that the Tibetan Tradition is the Indian "Nalanda Tradition". In other words stemming from the great ancient University in India which great masters are from like Arya Nagarjuna and Master Chandrakirti.
Sounds overly simple on my part. But, I like how he uses the word "irrespective."
To be precise, Buddhism is the anatomy of living beings. Regardless of one's religion, a living being's life is judged upon by a set of principles. Those principle's were NOT invented by Budda. In fact, they are Universal thruth's (of nature) that Buddha realized himself. One of those is the pinciple of "Cause an Effect".
This is the first time I'm hearing him speak. And, no offense meant, but he sounds like a voice over in a cartoon :-))
Cheers.
Thats sweet.
Om Mani padme Hum (Tibetan Buddhism)
is more well-known in
Westerner countries like USA.
There are actually many Buddhism
main-stream Teachings in the whole world.
Myself personally attached to Namo Amitabha.
i think we had pretty much the same conversation a while back so that gives the impression that we are just rehashing the same thing --
having said that, i think the more u know about the history of a given religion, and how it could be corrupted, the better it is for the believers, for they would be aware of the pitfalls, they can better concentrate on the good points of the religion and shun the potential bad. (if you want to be religious that is)
"Really though, I'm not being intentionally obtuse with you. Just giving you my thoughts. :)"
no you are not obtuse at all, i just feel like we had this conversation all before, and i already talked about what about buddhist teaching bothers me the most -- it's the repetitiveness that got to me, especially since im pretty tired today. but no worries!
Well, I'm not trying to convince you and I shouldn't have sounded so partisan with my reply. I just wanted to have a conversation, in the hope we both would improve our minds. Thank you for replying.
Love Tibet, Love China, Love USA, Love Japan, Love France, Love UK, Love India, Love Australia, Love Pakistan, Love Russia, Love Me Tender, Love Dalai - if He don't Lie
good!!!
apparently Kache Marpo said that Dorje Shugden practitioners would not have the resources to promote Dorje Shugden as much as the DS controversy has. Which is true. The controversy - the Dalai Lama's ban, the protests of the WSS et al - has gotten Dorje Shugden on CNN, Time magazine etc!! Not too shoddy for a 300 year old Dharma Protector! :)
i caught the tongue in cheek.
i was not holding dalai lama " personally " responsible for all the heinous crimes of the past, i thought that was obvious. i was just pointing out that the fact that he is a dalai lama, the representative of BUDDHISM is what is giving him the title "his holiness" and that in fact, the term "holy" rings hollow for more reasons than one.
ie. he is just an ordinary human being. nothing holy about him or the religious group in Tibet he represents.
OK i got you. chill out man, take it slow
i don't worship Dalia lama i just take his advice and wisdom to be a better person. i respect him. i also respect your view as well.
take care
peace
no worries.. u started responding to my post here so i thought u read over my original posts which were not addressed to you, but it's not a problem.
no sane person would want to perpetuate theocracy. the fact that his stance has changed in the past 10 years is understandable, especially with all the press that the problem has gotten. and it makes him human, not particularly holy.
i have problems with karmic retribution that is taught in buddhism though, it is a buddhist theory that has helped the monks justify their superior status and oppress the common people in the same way catholic church oppressed the people in middle ages. in the case of buddhism, the theory of reincarnation and karmic retribution supports and argues for the status quo in society, which i think is extremely dangerous.
"Its like if someone said "You're descended from white plantation owners from colonial US? Do you have ANY IDEA what those people DID to their slaves?"
??? Isn't that EXACTLY why we no longer have slavery? and we don't worship the descendants of slave owners nor the slave owners as being "HOLY"? you are just proving my point again.
i know i will probably get a lot of thumbs down for this post, but very often when a select person becomes a celebrity for being holy, they are not the holiest of us. dalai lama and mother teresa included. the "holiest"of us i find are those who give all they have in obscurity, those that truly work to help the needy in their small way. those people we never hear about. do some research on these so-called "holy people" fee good PR does not equal holy
Free Tibet! Peace!!!
His message is much kinder then yours charlie and i prefer his.
@metalshredhead1 an even bigger problem is that Christianity has actually condoned the killing of babies before (even in the bible). In Buddhism, killing is considered evil. In Christianity, killing is encouraged
yeah, it shoudl be easy to just stop responding, but when i'm accused of doing something which i'm not, i still feel the need to set the record straight :(
having said it, if you get some benefit frm buddhist teachings, then go for it. it's your personal choice, and i think parts of the teachings could work well for self betterment, certainly.
@SinsofIgnorance Well put :)
it's not there mistake that they become like celebrities(not really celebrity)media,reporter and public realize there goodness and trying to show world that people can also better person. you don't have to look at that person's religion but do more research at what are they trying to achieve or help. it doesn't matter whether you r Buddhist or christian.
@KATAERO
And what does that MEAN? Explain that to me.
What did he say about Buddha Dharma?
The current Dalai Lama was 13 when Mao rose to power.
So it's not just public accountability, but the modern concept that all man have equal rights unburdened by "karmic retribution" and privileges of "reincarnation" which is a highly "un-buddhist" concept which is of main importance here, in paving the road for a demoncratic Tibet.
@SinsofIgnorance You get it!
and just as catholicism, as the major religion in the west, oppressed people in unherad of ways, so has buddhism, as the major power relgion in asia over thousands of years, was directly reponsible for as much atrocities as catholicism is in the west. Dalai Lama is exiled by the Communist China, but before china invaded tibet (i'm also against this invasion) how the lamas ruled tibet would bring tears to your eyes, if u have any compassion... :_(
@bryanmichaelstephens You get it!
Not a single country was perfect before, and not a single country is really perfect now. but the kinds of heinous activity did not go on in every country especially as early as 20th century. spanish inquisition was a 15th century nightmare. if dalai lama is revered because he is a famed buddhist monk, well then u can see how enlightened buddhism was well into the 20th century. making apologies does not change fact.
whereas the horrors of the spanish inquisition, the sins of the vatican, and the holocaust are well documented and better known, the horrific sins of the tibetan monks are much less known. in fact, the opposite holds true: there are many people who assume that it was some kind of a peace loving shangri-la. i think it's always important to know the truth and to not put any one person or any one religion on a pedestal. all religion is man made, imperfect and infinitely corruptible.
I've heard this said before however I'm not sure of the truth in this statement, But let's say for the sake of arguement that it's true can you please tell me what it proves about the Dalai Lama?
explain what you mean by "using Buddhism for political purposes"?
Actually the abuse went on quite publicly in Tibet under theocracy -- it was justified under karmic retribution/reincarnation. When they maimed and sexually abused the serfs, they did not particularly try to hide it from the other 95% who were equally abused. Under their religion, and their religious "logic"of karmic retribution/reincarnation, the monks and the Lamas had every right to do as they wished. The serfs did not even have the right to look above the knee of their oppressors.
hey btw, i'm pretty tired right now and my last post wasn't supposed to be an insult :(
anyway i have to rush off... i know u mean well and i wish you luck with your quest for your own enlightenment. :)
free tibet? i take one :D just kidding :) got that from the simpson :) hehe
"the original belief is not automatically faulty. That is my only point to you."
the original reincarnation/karmic retribution in this case, is faulty to begin with. that's my point. i'm not saying all buddhists are evil, but the buddhism as a man made religion is not a perfect system.
when he was a young man in tibet, he thought all the injustice was "normal"since it did not go against the buddhist teachings of karmic retribution. how the serfs were totally oppressed and they were severely punished if they dared to look above the knee of the monks. when western people came to visit he had to pretend like it wasn't what was going on there, becuase he knew that they would be outraged/shocked if they found out. do some research.
i am saying that i do not see any evidence that dalai lama is so holy. and i have given my reasons. if even with all these reasons you choose to worship dalai lama, fine. go for it. if you want to continue making excuses and go for it, it's your choice. I for one, see him quite differently. anyway good luck with your love for the dalai. i know it feels good to love and worship for the reasons i've alredy outlined, so i'm sure you will enjoy your choice. Peace.
others would be wrong to say so about them
listen, obviously you like these people after knowing all the FACTS and that's your prerogative. i don't think so, is all.
good for you. it's your personal choice.
for me, the stuff about reincarnation turns me off. not discounting all buddhist teachings though. there's soemthing good in every religion i believe. (though i'mnot religious)
yes exactly my point. it's the modern concept: public accountability = enlightenment
not buddhism. buddhism does not make anybody holy.
well we should be more reasonable. the fact is when Dalia lama is throned he was just 16 and at that time Tibetan didn't had any relationship with others and obviously lack in modern technology. i am 100% sure that if Tibetan are independent now they live much much better than now under Chinese
occupation. at least there will be right to live the way you want.
"My issue with what you're saying is that you seem focused on PEOPLE, whereas I'm focused on the actual teachings of Buddhism."
The teaching of reincarnation/karmic retribution that not only enabled but justified the horrific abuse of the serfs IS part of the buddist teaching whether u like it or not. please read thru my posts and don't make me repeat myself.
? well as an atheist i think all religion is pretty much like one another. i'm not against buddhism any more than any other religion. though the atrocities of christianity is well documented, buddhist atrocities is not as well documented, and gives the inaccurate view of that ONE religion that was peace loving and just. setting the record straight is all i'm intersted in.
for me it's not the religion but HOW you believe. no religion is superior to another
Not at all. I'm also incensed by the holocaust and the spanish inquisition. I'm a humanist and am affected by all heinous crimes against humanity.
Like many other people until recently I was sold on the buddhist propagana and had wrongly "assumed"that unlike christianity, buddhism did not have so much blood on its hands, and only learned the truth as I began to do actual research. And what I unearthed disgusted and horrified me, just as it should any human being.
A serial killer does not likely get *any* happiness from killing. It is merely an attempt to satisfy a craving which will never be satiated -- the very definition of suffering....always more to get, always something to do, never a gap of peace in between. Also, in some cases, such a person has a mental disease which should have been treated with medication long ago. Either case, not happiness from killing, but sad addition which very sadly also affects many others.
Beings that don't recognize each other as being themself.
So absurd.
the present day lamas are acknowledging that those things were "unacceptable" to say the least -- under WHAT conditions? that's the important factor to consider here.
i'm all for their reconsidering their position of course, but if there was no invasion by china, if there was no international scrutiny, would they havebeen as open to changing their way of thinking? hm... to second guess would be a waste of time...
have you been to those poor asian countries where people are starving and you have huge pure gold budda statues stacked up impressively in buddhist temples? it's quite impressive, and immoral too, i might add.
Wow. Track record at 4? High standards. HH Dalai Lama had the most rigorous of training as a child.. he is considered an authority in pretty much all things Tibetn Buddhism. That's just how it is.
He is the head of the Gelugpa's. He has to be an egghead :)
Hell is an illusion,and because of this,your words frighten only yourself,and those people with similar delusions.I hope that you find peace my friend.
don't get me wrong, i'm against the chinese ooccupation of tibet, but 95% of the serf population DO live tons better under the chinese occupation than they did under dalai lama. having said that i still say free tibet, get rid of oppressive theocracy, free tibet from BOTH theocracy and chinese occupation - i supoort dalai only in as much as the chinese ocupation should end (though that's not what he is calling for any more being politicaly astute)
@tzzlite There's a lot of good stuff in Christianity and Islam too, mixed in with the crap. That is also true.
"I don't believe the Dalai Lama or any other Tibetan Lama (that I've ever heard) claims to be such themselves. (Though certainly others might say it about them)"
do you knwo ANYTHINHG about tibetan buddhism? the very reason why they were able to wield such ABSOLUTE POWER including mutilation and murder of peasants is because the dalai lama was supposed to be a divine reincarnation of whatever other lama who was worshipped.
it's too bad that the karmic retribution/reincarnation theory actualy seems to promote oppression, if u accept it in any way. have u done any research on tibet under the lamas?
we have to learn from the past, and it was NOT a distant past. To say that it happened in the past so it's *less valid* displays a fallacy of thought. Einstein did not subscribe to any particular religion contrary to popular belief. His main point was that we needed to be humble, and religious people are anything but that, since they think they know the key to the universe. i will leave it to your ample imagination as to my standpoint in buddhism.
dalai lama was a slave owner feudal lord, then an CIA funded separatist during the Cold War, and now he is wolf dressed in sheep skin.
life under dalai lama's feudal theocracy was like hell on earth, where 80 to 90% of the population was slaves and serfs, all the land of tibet was owned by 200 super rich aristocratic families and lamas.
No it's not "their mistake" but u should read up on dalai lama and how he was under CIA's payroll, when that scandal dried up the cia funds he learned the Scientologist approach real quick and started approaching celebrity buddhists (like richard gere)
i'm non religious person but i used to give these religious celebrities the benefit ofthe doubt i'm pretty much disillusioned with mother teresa as well at this point.
i didn't understand what that mean (his exile to the EVIL WEST enlightened him finally?)yeah i agree that at that time government was pretty screwed up and Dalia lama didn't had too much power but i think if Chinese didn't invade Tibet at that time it's gonna be better country. not a single country was perfect before and Tibet was just about to come out from that shell but didn't get the chance.
i am not saying that slave is right. obviously slave is wrong and we have to get rid of it. it happened in the past. infact i did lot of research do you know that Albert Einstein said science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind and If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.i am sorry if i am pissing you off but that the fact.i didn't get you u r not opposing Dalia lama then r u saying that Buddhism is bad?
I'm sorry, but so far all the objections you are raising are really not pertinent to the points I'm making much less negate them. If I stop responding to your posts, please understand that I'm not being rude. And do research on your own. Peace.
to Ganeschar:
hi back, slave fellow.
i REALLY gotta go now. again, be wary of karma stuff and take care!
so that just proves my main point, which is there's nothing inherently holy about buddhism or buddhists.
also as i said before, it's not just public accountability, as their heinous crimes were perfectly justified under the teachings of buddha (karmic retribution/reincarnation) so we need public accountability PLUS modernity which is unfettered by such archaic and anti-humanist dogma.
Buddha's are not gods... they are just sentient beings (like us) who have attained enlightment. It is a really big topic. But not a god.
yes, we should be more reasonable. and it's not reasonable to think that just because they lacked in modern technology it justified the monks running the country like a sadistic camp.
i'm not blaming dalai personally for ALL THE ills, since he was born into the system. and his exile in the west opened his eyes more to the ills of his country i'm sure. but isn't it ironical that his exile to the EVIL WEST enlightened him finally? and not all that meditation and chanting and buddhist ideology?
@dorje169 Yes!
The Dalai Lama is not holy. The Dalai Lama is a human being of no more, and no less importance than anyone else.
maybe if you figure out why you think your life suck, you can get butt off the couch and do something about it. Life sucks or not is a perception of your mind. I sure there are millions of people around the world just dreaming to have the life and opportunities that you have currently.
Very broad and dichotomous theological implications in what he says. The purpose of life is happiness. Who would ever say they don't want to be happy? And yet Jesus Christ came to suffer and die. That's basic Christian doctrine. Another dichotomy is believers in an ultimate creator and those that believe in self creation. Who reading this is truly conscious or believing that they created themselves? Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace but division. I think HH agrees here.
first of all, secular systems do not pretend to be HOLY. nor are they seen to be so.
my point is that there's nothing holy about religions either. if you disagree with that after all this MOUNTAIN of evidence over history, that's you. (and many many other religious sympathizers)
" Its like if someone said "You're descended from white plantation owners from colonial US? Do you have ANY IDEA what those people DID to their slaves?"
1) are you saying here that we should not teach children about the horrors of slavery in america? that we should not teach history? (different from laying blame, but TEACHING history)
2) i'm not trying to teach dalai lama the history of tibet. i woudln't need to do it - he lived IN the system til the age of 16. your analgy doesn't work.
though buddhsim never said it my point is that the teaching of karmic retribution and reincarnation blames the victims for their pain and misery. so it JUSTIFIES victimization of the less weak by the strong. that is simply WRONG.
that part of buddhism i definitely DO NOT condone, not under any pretext. and it's certainly not holy.
you are not listening to what i'm saying
i'm saying that no one group of people or entity should be worshipped as HOLY.
the US governemnt is deeply flawed and far from perfect. obviously it's not holy
You saying life under His Holiness is hell on earth,eh? Then describe the life under People's Republic of China or the Communist Party of China. Describe what really happened during the Tiananmen Square. So please don't blame on him being CIA funded separatist. Tibet was never a part of China and never will be.
Wow, that's nice. Trying to suggest that the Dalai Lama ordered a hit on a political opponent? That's pretty laughable.
Sorry. If you ever met a Lama, well, this just wouldn't cross your mind.
I am still new to the idea but, "Buddhism" DOESN'T EXIST...
u are no more pissing me off than i am pissing you off.
einstein, bless his soul was a great genius but he was not a specialist in buddhism. he did not know anything about reincarnation and all the mysticism that buddhism submitted to. in any case there's no record of einstein becoming a buddhist -- if he really thought buddhism was all that he would definitely have done more.
Starting a sentence with the word 'and' is very bad English.
actually, if you knew that you were deluded, u would not be arguing with me ;)
haha that is why it is difficult for you coz you does not get da idea nor meaning of meditation
why do u bother watching this?u r a one angry kid