The DeSoto Firedome Hemi - Is This The Most Significant Chrysler Engine Of All Time?
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2024
- When the subject of early Chrysler Hemis comes up, even hardcore Mopar guys tend to limit the discussion to the Chrysler Firepower series, but they were only part of the story. Chrysler's other divisions had their own completely distinctive versions of the basic design too
Dodge had the Red Ram engines, and DeSoto had the magnificent Firedome/Fireflite series.
While both the Firepower and Red Ram engine lines met their end in 1958, the basic architecture of the DeSoto morphed into a Poly head engine for the Plymouth line and formed the foundation for successful engine series that continued right up until the modern era.
#classiccar #engine #history
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I'm building a DeSoto 330 right now.... block is in the shop. I'm building it to be blown, so using main cap studs and 340 main caps.
Using H beam rods designed for 400 Pontiac and custom blower pistons from Hot Heads Hemi. Hot Heads also sells a blower manifold which isn't listed.
Going to be using a 6-71 and two Edelbrock carbs.
Engine is going in a 64 Barracuda gasser.
Like Tony says, cams are the DeSoto's Achilles heel...there just aren't any. So I'm having a factory cam reground.
Also tuff to get main and rod bearings for stock caps and rods, but I'll be able to use LA main bearings and Pontiac rod bearings.
I was told it can't be done....
So I'm doing it.
Had a 57 DeSoto Firedome when I was a kid. 341 2bbl hemi and typewriter Torqueflite. Learned the differences in the family quickly when I picked up a 392 4bbl intake at Carlisle and it didnt fit! Super smooth and torqey. Had an under the seat record player!
Did the needle skip when you nailed the gas pedal?😂
@@MrJohnnyDistortion Never got the beast roadworthy to find out. Got it running enough to do burnouts at my Dads garage and putter around the industrial park and sold it.😢
My father in law was a highway patrolman in Ohio in the late 50's. As such, he was in numerous high speed chases. During one chase, the car he was after, pulled away from him so quickly he ended the chase. He said the cars tail lights just got smaller and smaller till they just disappeared. Unfortunately for the guy he was chasing, they knew who he was and picked him up the next day. The engine in the car. Desoto Firedome. The patrol car was a 57 Ford, and this was the only time it was ever outran!
Great video and subject matter! Love this stuff!
Man what a walking talking encyclopedia of Chrysler engineering 😳
May the force be with you .😮🎉
What really surprised me was to learn that the hemispherical combustion chamber design was developed by Chrysler for an inverted V-16 fighter plane engine they engineered in hopes of a government contract before WWII- it was rejected, but by the end of it's run it was producing 3000hp. The war also produced Ford's GAA aluminum block double overhead cam V-8 of 1100 cid, that was originally a V-12 airplane engine that didn't make the cut. It was used in Sherman tanks and the late-war Pershing heavy tank...
Hemispherical combustion was common on just about everything in military aviation both liquid and air cooled but the wartime British Sleeve valve engines. Competitive performance is more necessary in military aircraft and Racing engines like Offenhauser or the Novi. They cost marginally more to tool up for because of the extra angles and rocker shafts so for most of the American motoring public a few more cu in would suffice in the vast American road system when high octane went for 30 cents or less per gallon. . . .Every little thing making your price more competitive appeals to the corporate bean counters in auto manufacturing for the hoi poloi..
I remember, when I lived in rural Mass. in the mid 70's, one of my pass times was exploring the old auto graveyards around there. Saw multiples of probably every description of early Hemi cars and engines in those yards, along with many other old makes of cars of course. I get to wondering at times what happened to them all. One fascinating sidebar, was the Chrysler Hemi powered air raid sirens of the mid 50's. I saw one on display at the Chrysler museum.
I've always had a big interest in those Chrysler Air Raid sirens.
Dodge truck frame, hemi, and some cold war style stuff!!!
Cars are what I do, and history is my passion
I could just hang out w/ Uncle Tony wrenching on stuff while he's spouting all the history.
This guy knows his crank flange from his deepstate! Top work Sir 👍
Anything was what I wished for in my 51 Plymouth.
Dreamed a Chrysler V8.
Never happened, a chrysler straight 6 happened.
Would do 60 in second gear.
Those were the day.
You are so correct about the Adam and Enriquez’s jr. fueler watch them many a time at Lions and other strips in So Cal. The sbc of the era had a hard time keeping up with them!
Gene Adams had a Jr. fueler in the mid-60s with a low dec Chrysler. The car just wasn't very competitive, and Gene felt it was too low in compression. By running a 302 cu in Chrysler, the large chamber (even with the 54-54 Chrysler heads with smaller chambers than 392s) the small swept era did not allow for higher compression. So Gene went to a 291 Desoto block with I believe 341 Desoto head and took a Hilbourn Chrysler stack injected casting down to line up with the Desoto intake ports. The Jr fuelers at the time were peaking about 196 MPH with the better runners, most by small block 283 blocks bored 1/8th to a 301. Gene and Don figured out the combo and hit the first Jr Fuel run at over 200 MPH. A good trivia question I don''t think has ever been answered correctly is "what manufacturer's engine was the first engine to hit 200MPH in the quarter mile without a blower?" A good old Desoto! In 1970 Adams and Enriquez using the changed rules for A/FD went to a 354 Chrysler. In the 1970 Winternationals in Pomona CA Don won Competition Eliminator on Sunday and I was in the stands pleased as can be by his wins.
I'll have to let my brother know about tomorrow's video about the red ram. Back in about 1980 to 82 he bought one to put in a t-bucket he was building. Over 10 or so years he researched red rams to death. Jim Rini did the machine work on it and had an Isky reground cam, reworked small block distributor and 4 barrel intake and carb. My brother built a spacer so he could install a torqueflyte trans behind it. Neat stuff
One thing I've noticed with the early hemi's is how smooth they are, very little or no vibration in them.
Desoto 345 was the first American engine to make 1hp per cubic inch.
I thought it was the 1956 Chrysler 300 with the 354 c.i. Hemi generating 355hp.
The 1957 DeSoto Adventurer was the 1st American made automobile that produced 1 hp per CID as standard equipment, not as an option. Engine stamping number: S26A, 345CID, 345HP
My Grandfather was an elementary school principal in Tottenville, Staten Island NY.... He had a DeSoto... I guess my love for Chryslers is inherent....lol.
Had a 55 Desoto with that engine given to me by my father in law who bought it to tow an under warranty Cortina back from rural Pennsylvania cause no one could fix the transmission. my 49 Chevy blew up and we needed a car to back to Illinois. I knew it was special when I saw the dual point distributor, but didn’t understand what it was. Drove it home and both my wife and really liked the engine. It felt tireless and at ease compared to other V8s. Eventually sold to a friend on his way to San Francisco where he sold it on to a guy who blew the engine up street dragging. An honourable end compared to mouldering away in my father in laws driveway.
Years and years ago I rescued a 53 Chrysler Saratoga from the crusher. It has the 331 hemi. The motor had been pulled and disassembled. You could still see the crosshatch in the cylinders. Unfortunately these things are not cheap to rebuild so it sets….
you saved it, that's what matters. :)
takes a lot of improvising and making your own stuff in a lot of cases
As a Brit born in the 50s, I always admired the DeSoto Fireflyte CAR. Those epic fins sold the 5 year old me! Now I know it had (or COULD have) such a primo motor, I want one even more, though I suspect I can't afford one. I love ALL the US "jukebox" cars of the tri-Chevy era, but for fins-n-chrome nothing beats the circa '57 Fireflyte!
Good stuff man . And actually the 354 truck engines ( Chrysler FirePower ) were available in big trucks for the 1959 model year . I'm sure they were cast in 1958 but there is an engine code for 1959 blocks.
I have a '53 DeSoto with a totally stock 276 hemi. Great motor (160 hp and 250ftlb torque) At the time, Chevrolet Bel Air’s top engine was a 108hp/200ftlb inline 6. According to Motor Trend magazine tests, the FireDome engine working through Tip-Toe Shift with Fluid Torque Drive hurled DeSoto down the quarter mile in 19.7 seconds at 69 miles per hour. Top speed was 100 miles per hour. The FireDome could race from zero-to-sixty in 15.5 seconds, about five seconds faster than its nearest competitor. Motor Trend gushed about the car, lauding it as a car with “high performance characteristics” and calling the V8 Hemi engine the “engineering scoop of the decade”. In addition, I was super worried about the paint roller drying out during this post. Glad it was cut just short enough to finish the job.
Love the DeSoto and 270 Dodge RedRam hemi!
Thanks, Tony, for touching on the Ardun story in your live feed. Zora Arkus-Duntov like you said famously worked on the Corvette and in 1947 developed "hemi" heads that were adapted to the flathead Ford engine by gearheads. His designs were run at Bonneville too I believe. I think also that the heads have been reproduced by several others over these many decades.
this video made me wanna build one and throw in my 70 challenger!
The firedome was the first engine I ever built with my grandpa, he ended up shipping it to Germany for a guy restoring a Facel Vega, which used the firedome as the stock motor back in the fifties. Good stuff man!!
Nice technique UT! Hopefully that wall paint is industrial strength--something tells me some nice work will be coming out of that new shop!😎
I'm currently overhualing a 1956 330 desoto hemi, looking forward to all you have to say about the desoto hemi.
A little trick when using a roller to do painting is finish the strip on the down stroke, that way the paint won't attract dust.
Why is that?
I thought you might complain that he didn't do any cutting in.😊
At first, I thought this video would be almost as fun as watching paint dry...😂
There's a pretty good sized Surplus Store about 40 miles from where I live... They always have some pretty crazy Military surplus for sale and you never know what you might see there.
About five years ago, I happened to go up there just to poke around and was of course BROKE as a joke at the time.
I'll be damned if they didn't have FOUR brand new, in the crate, early Fifties Chrysler generators for sale that weekend. Each powered by a 331 Hemi.... And get this - only $2500 each.
That's the story of my life... A day late or a dollar short 🤣
Happy New Year, Uncle Tony!
Thanks Uncle T, I've had a 1952 Desoto Fire Dome on an engine stand for about 15 years and one of these days I'm going to do something with it.. thinking maybe a trike with a bike frame and a truck bed? Either way I've learned more about these engines from your 2 vids about them than I ever have.. keep'em coming!
This reminds me of that scene in "Blackboard Jungle" when Mr. Dadier is trying to talk to the class when the shop equipment, the floor above, was making noise.
Very interesting. 20 years ago, my father and I bought a 1955 Desoto fireflite 4 door for $800 with the 291 4-barrel "Fireflite Hemi" (200HP) and 2 speed "Powerflite" transmission". Unfortunately, it never made it to the road, and I sold it a few years ago.
Hey Tony,
Tim here......i saw the comment from the prev vid, where the comment was to quit smoking, cuz they were dyin from copd........i'm a smoker, i just got home from my Moms funeral (she was 90)......i just wanna say, do WHATEVER you like, you cud quit tomorow, and be struck by lightning that afternoon.....life is fleeting, YES i wud probably be healthier by quitting, but ANYTHING can happen at any moment, smoke for 70 years and pass away at 90, or, quit now, and get struck by lightning......i'm gonna enjoy whatever time i have, doin my life, smoke all u want, no garuntee's of ANY life longevity.....enjoy who you are....PEACE TO YOU SIR!!
The 392 Hemi was significant too because it introduced the 4 inch bore, which is paramount to valve area for good breathing in a pushrod V8, Further to this Wiki claims that the 354 was also available in a Poly version - But I've never seen one.
Looking forward to the Red Ram. I have a ‘54 Dodge Royal w/ 241 Red Ram. Was my Grandmother’s car purchased in 1959. Just pulled out of the barn setting up for rebuild.
Conversation?
Hemi Time !!!
Thanks again UTG , learned something new today 😊
The early hemi and poly engine history is interesting. I always assumed all the hemis were pretty much the same except for bore/stroke/cubic inches, but there were a lot of differences. It's also interesting how closely related the DeSoto hemi is to the A/LA/Magnum engines. I found out through an engine swap just how similar the poly 318 is to the LA 318. I had a truck with the poly engine, and I swapped in an LA 318 pretty easily. And a lot of parts interchange. The big difference is just the heads and intake manifold.
I watch you all the time for your information and knowledge. Ment no disrespect UT.
Love your channel.
Keep up the reality and helping everyone.
Great humer and knowledge.
Kind regards
Sooo entertaining Uncle T
Shoot Man, I would have bought a Avanti electric air paint gun from harbor freight and painted those walls in three hours. But of course prep time with paper on the bottom floors areas would take time.
As long as your painting with latex, clean up is easy. Oil base clean up sucks.
The Dodge hemi was about the size of a 215 Buick, super small, would fit in anything.
Paint n talk would be multi tasking at its finest! How did the painting turn out???
An early hemi would be cool in a 70s or 80s dodge truck.
I got an 84 Dodge van with a 318 2bbl, I'd love either an old Hemi or a V10 Magnum swap
@@zackmatulis4094 the v10 might be pretty good if you could get a carburetor manifold n stand alone ignition. I think a 392 would bolt in but the converter pilot in the crank may need machined? That would be cool to pop the hood n see. They run like a top. I met a guy who had a running display engine. It was just a 2 barrel 331 I think it had the bellhousing cast into the block but it sounded nice.
What about the Ardun head ? These were hemi heads made for Ford flat head V8s - a conversion kit.
I know there are two replies but I can't see them - something not working...
Thanks for the Video Tony 👍
NOTHING like nice fresh paint. Love it.
My cousin has a 53 de Soto with the fire dome an it's his daily driver I love this car.just driving all your worries just melt away
Great video Brotha!!
Oh, some 'Honey-Do" ! Glad to see UT doing some Homework.
My friend and I rebuilt a 331 in a 1954 chrysler wagon. It wa so damn tight 6v was worthless. We started it with 12v for a few weeks. Fun memmories.
Wow amazing! Excellent video
Wow I could listen to this dude for a long time. I had a '55 DeSoto Fireflite which had the 291 hemi with a 4 barrel, drove it through college after I sold my Roadrunner (hemi actually better with mpg). Effortless torque and power, of course the car was a tank, would have parties inside with 8 people going down the road. Would have liked to have done a mild mod. Wish I still had it, might buy another.
Thanks Uncle Tony I really liked this video
My dad bought a 55 DeSoto when he was in high school it was only a year or two old. Always said they had a "popel" crankshaft (slang term for trees here that aren't good for lumbar), but the Chrysler hemi was great. My guess is it's one of those things that car guys just repeat because they heard it somewhere? He did have a bearing go bad, high-school kid driver probably using drip oil from the gas station he worked, but no, it was that popel crankshaft.
That and getting his doors blown off by a 57 or 58 Pontiac are all I've heard about the car.
I know they had forged cranks, once I even tried to tell him that.
I should just buy a DeSoto hemi to bug him with it. 🤣
Uncle Tony, little tidbit, the 4 barrel DeSoto hemi was actually called the Fireflite, the 2 bbl was the Firedome. My 1st car, owned 25 years was a 1956 Fireflite S24. My grandpa's was 1956 Pacesetter, featured in Special Interest Autos, my dads a 1956 DeSoto Sportman...
All this very cool information concerning especially the bell housing design and bolt pattern brings up a question Ive had for years. Where did the B/RB engine bell housing come from and why wouldnt they have just kept one pattern??
Holy shit, first work I ever seen you do Tony 😉
Awesome video. great info. I was a painter in my youth, so I had to turn a blind eye to your technique with the roller but if you are happy with the outcome, that's ultimately what's important. I am very excited for this topic of the old hemi engines.
Your rollers' dryin out😉
The more you know….thanks for another history lesson UT!!! Look forward to watching you build Kiwi’s Hemi…I mean Firepower 👍💪😎
Good Ole Desoto. 64 Plymouth Fury was the oldest Mopar I every owned. Always wanted a Christine replica but my budget said no.
I Love TONY...... The BEST!!!
Interesting, Thank You .
There appears to be a massive misalignment of the alternator belt on the engine shown at 12:14. As always, another interesting video! I never knew that the Chrysler, Dodge and DeSoto engines were all very different. I'm old but not old enough to have worked on any of these cars.
A friend of mine in the 90s has a 56 fire dome 330 2 speed that thang would run 55 in low gear with 3 non flours on the plugs burning oil and valves all the way still run like a 100 110 with a car load of people 2 speed 2 burrow 4 door red and white what a fun car in the 90s when we where in high school
I can't wait to hear about the red ram, I have a couple under the bench that I want to build a model A around.
Why no hemi 318? Seemed like Dodge was fond of that displacement.
There was a 318 poly head , wonder if the 345/341 hemi heads would bolt on one?
@@dinadaughtry8993 I had a '62 318 Dart. Happy little engine.
I like this. Uncle Tony’s drywall channel
Yes it evolved into the “A” and “LA” engine. I sent my cam to Racer Brown in Baltimore MD for a regrind.
You are forgetting one hemi engine (the W-43 ). Not made by Dodge or plymouth but by oldsmobile.
That was not a hemi engine. It was a pent-roof.
Its a 4 valve engine, you can't do a hemi in a 4 valve.
@@oldsjetfire8975 yeah, the oldsmobile OW-43 DOHC is basically the same as a Chrysler A-925 experiment engine.
Ford 427 SOHC .
(HEMI.)
The Desoto,Chrysler and Dodge firedome engines,the interchange on them is the parts do not fit all the engines.Desoto parts fit Desoto,Chrysler fits Chrysler and Dodge fits Dodge
Walls getting painted 70 Superbird Alpine white...😮
Your the best Tony
I had in a couple of 1963 Plymouths 318ci Poly engines in cars I drove in the early 70s
Early Hemis, can you and if possible show more blocks,heads ect. This history is a MUSH for all know and you are the bloke to tell the stories and gather the evidence from the people in the know.
What power can a 318 poly block make?
We had them here in Australia and you can see the heavy casting areas compared to the LA.
Can they deal with more power or are the early Hemi block poly engines different?
If it rolls uncle Tony's on it ! Is that a stroker roller ?
Looking forward unk 👍👍
I have the Desoto Firedome eight 330ci with 3 deuces in my 31 ford chopped top. And yes hotheads was a big help.
the Desoto is the foundation for a lot more than the poly
That paint looks to be covering well.
Just had a thought ... while you are covering the early engines you should do the Chrysler A-311 Project . Add in " The High And Mighty " and maybe Mickey Thompson using early hemi stuff on just about anything. Also , the 417 Donovan .
I'm crying here in 38"heat lol
My dad owned a service station in the fifties. He said they were great engines but if you ran them for a long time they could be difficult to restart. His friend owned a Desota with firedome. They were racing from stop light to stop light. I don't remember what car they were racing against but he said nothing could be that Desota off the line. On a long stretch, it would be overtaken.
thanks
That was interesting
Whats sad is manufacturers take good reliable designs and stop using them in favor of problematic designs that are designed to fail after so many miles.
yeah but if it lasts too long they can't sell you a new one!
Uncle Tony your nap isn't on the roller handle all the way. Thanks for the history lesson
Cool info dude😅
I have a parted, 240 red ram hemi out in my shop. 😊
I wonder how much u know about the Plymouth 350 duel quad that is shown in the movie christen
1st Chrysler Big Block turned into the 361 the next year and was an option in all Plymouth,Desoto,Dodge and lower end Chrysler models..Later punched to 383 and 400 cubic inches!
Painting in nice clothes?
Respect!
Hey UTG what are your thoughts about holley 670cfm duel feed single pump vacuum secondary on a ford 351w ho it was on a Mopar so it had the adapter for Mopar
Fun fact: 1956 Dodge 315 and 330 Desoto have a longer stroke than a 426 hemi at 3.80 inches
Speaking this eloquently with that scraping noise going on is indicative of that scraping noise being what is going on in Tony's head all the time, thus is the curse of us ADHD people.
I found a DeSoto head in a junkyard I used to work in. I would have bought it, but my boss would have wanted both nuts for it.
All wit NO CUE cards ;) ✊🏼🍺🍕
I have a 54 DeSoto waiting in line.
I've got a 291 I picked up years ago. Want to get it running but rebuild parts are very pricey.
50s DeSotos are stunning cars.
Tony mate the wall 😂
Mains are a little narrow on the DeSoto and way small on the Red Ram for heavy loads of Nitro Methane. the Shrank Brothers ran a DeSoto when the NHRA had a transitional year or two with a sub-300 cu in fuel class and they were said to always have had one or two spare short blocks in their push/tow truck. Another contemporary FED shoe said his Ardun Flathead Ford stayed together longer under 97-98 percent Nitro Methane than his DeSoto would.. It's probably the main reason why you'd see teams like Lichien and Drake or Brissette and Sutherland running a 331 but not the DeSoto. I think Sutherland teamed with Bill Alexander running a DeSoto Fueler for awhile but went to a 354 as soon as they found a good one. I wouldn't know how they did with the Fire Dome but the 354 set strip records as did the 331. The 1st generation Chryslers are what you saw ruling the top fuel Roost in the mid '60s primarily the '57-'58 392. Now the Fire Domes have been seen in gas classes at Bonneville in '53 Stude Starliners for example. That combo appeals to me as a street build that I never got around to.
If you wanted to run fuel I'd try less than 50 percent Nitro and maybe toluene for the remainder at 34 degrees timing. There are guys who ran 25 percent just to get a bite on slicker lanes. I'd steer clear of mixing with Alcohol as detonating too completely nearer TDC. Good luck finding blower manifolds. Weiand's are rare vintage finds You'd probably have to box the rods and make your own 4140 main caps. I'd like knowing If "A" rods or pistons would fit. High compression in blown fuelers don't mix well either. Somebody might grind a cam and the rest would be a scavenger hunt.
I believe the "A" might be beefier in the bottom end but correct me if I'm wrong. I'll bet you can't bolt the DeSoto Hemi heads onto "A" Blocks even if I am.. Very informative vid and thanks for posting. I loved the '50s V8s and especially the Chrysler Corporation 'plants.