Growing up with a narcissistic parent was a never ending quest for validation in their self-centered reality that I was forced to live in. While everyone’s childhood should be innocent and worry free, I had to live each day navigating emotional minefields where my identity revolved around a performance that never came with any applause.
This is so wonderfully put, tank you for expressing it this way Edit: I want to add I'm a professional writer and I don't think I've ever described what you just fit into a few sentences so vividly, yet so spot on
My entire career has been a disaster. I am attacked in every job that I take. I am immediately threatening to narcissistic and/or insecure people. I disowned half of my family because of their mistreatment, and the education that I have given myself since, has made me a threat to anyone narcissistic. The cost of "knowing" has been high.
Narcs will in turn scapegoat you, even at work which threatens your money on top of your wellbeing. What should you do? It would help me to know the answer
@@gregpendrey6711 I have tried my guts out. I wish I had an answer. I even tried being a phony and tried to get along with them. But it doesn't work. Nothing has worked so far. They can feel it. They can feel that I know that they are low lifes. I've tried playing a fool and putting myself down out of desperation. That seemed to work a little better, but it made my soul sick. I am starting my own business, and I am looking for any and every way to work from home. The reactions that I get from unhealthy people are so extreme, that in my last position I actually feared for my safety. There were so many disgusting people, that I would not be alone in a room with them without a camera. And I saw them makeup stories and make up witnesses to accuse people of things. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm not. Believe it or not, I am hard to rattle. But the length that I saw them go to, shocked me.
Exactly. I am a hard worker and actually quite intelligent but I have never in my life received a promotion. The last 2 jobs I had I was forced out of them by narcissists who felt threatened by me and made false accusations about me (I was not the only staff member who experienced this in these work places. I'm not claiming unique victimhood here, I think I was the only person who actually saw the pattern of what was going on). I responded each time by leaving and getting an even LOWER paying job thinking I would be safer that way thinking I was not threatening in a lower position. WRONG! Narcs would see you as a threat in a non-paying volunteer position!! As long as you are still breathing you are a threat!
It usually doesn't come until later because that's when it becomes more apparent as an adult seeing the actions of another person. Rather than a child seeing a parent. A child seeing a parent will brush it off, because that's who they rely on to take care of them. But as you get older and you see examples of how it should've been. It quickly becomes clear that their actions were in no way "normal". Which then leads to further digging and more truth comes to light
I was a scapegoat as a child. I did not realize it until I was an old man. One thing it cost me was the internalization of the insulting coldness with which I was treated. That is, I came to believe the lies that were told me. But I finally figured this out, with your help and the help of others. And with it I finally discovered healthy self love, self respect, and limited optimism for the remaining few years of my life. Thank you.
I just turned 60 years and have been no contact for 4 years. My brother was really the scapegoat. He died young with a lot of problems that my parents will NEVER accept or even question their role in ( the beatings and neglect). I, of course was neglected, beaten and ignored. My birthdays often ignored. I never felt seen, loved or heard. I was trying to remember one act of affection from my parents and couldn’t. I believe it left me with an inability to attach to other humans. Or maybe I am just being sensible. But I deeply love wild animals, birds and horse.
yes i hear u on loving birds and animals. and difficulty attaching to other humans.i also feel u in having a brother who is full scapegoat and physical and emotional violence. as in beatings or neglect.
I think the reason so many find animals comforting is the fact that they are not deceptive in their affection. It is not a means to an end, especially with cats. They usually hate having their faces, with their sensitive whiskers touched but tolerating it means they are trusting you. If animals give or receive affection, it implies trust, which is something difficult to achieve with humans once you have experienced this particular behavioral pattern.
Even as a small child I was the truth seer and teller, which made me even more of a target and the scapegoat to my narc parent. My dad, from whom I did receive love, affection, and validation, told me that when I was two years old, I would sit and observe everyone and everything around me as if I were thinking, "Something is not quite right."
You're very lucky to have him. Nobody ever noticed me. But I can also remember doing that. I would stay alone because I couldn't widstand most societal interactions. . I still think today that no one can really understand me😢
Truthtellers/highly sensitive kids underestimate how deeply asleep everyone is. We think if we explain what's wrong, adults will fix it. Instead we adjust to others dellusions bc we learn nobody listens anyway. I was truthteller kid and then got silenced, surpressed by school and society. Finding now my authentic personality I lost as a kid to avoid abuse. I've discovered I have sense of humor and love to laugh. Everytime I get drunk I start laughing histerically. I was in survival mode most of my childhood/adolescence, I totally surpressed what's natural for me.
Same experience here. Much more forthright as a child. We are told that for society to move forward, everyone must conform and someone has to be the bigger person. That someone is the person who tells the truth. Like many questions, “do I look fat in this?”, truth tellers will not only point out the truth directly, because they assume everyone values it the way they do, but when castigated for their answer, they will usually (at least I will) respond, you know I only tell the truth so why ask me. I wanted friends in college so learned to mask my truth. When I found that many people actually valued my authentic self, and that being myself would automatically cut out the jerks, I shifted back some. I am now fully shifting back, like you, and finding it difficult sometimes. Any pointers? Funnily enough, children love it, because rarely do you find adults who will “concede” to truth.
@@TheBaumcmyou described this whole set of behaviors very well. Thank you. Me, as a kid. Always in trouble for speaking truth. Now I’m 66 and don’t give a……I speak the truth, you don’t like it? Change channels.lol
@@HealingMyselfIsTheFocusI hear you! Loud and clear. Alcohol is a depressant. Makes me cry, too. Once I set some boundaries, learned grey rock and literally walked away a few times I realized I could change my behavior. Do something for yourself. Immediately. Could be something small, just for you.
I observed such blatant lies, abuse, and neglect from both parents that by first grade I knew what they were but didn’t have the words, so I thought of them as “terrorists”. A family system based on coercion, punishment, and fear of abuse (not caring, kindness, or love) is surprisingly normal when you’re born into it.
In my case, I have to say it’s a choice in how you decide to see yourself. Thankfully I’m almost finished with my Dad’s estate and that will allow me to cut all ties with my siblings that have become our mother so I no longer have to clean up their messes. My dad’s greatest gift to me before passing was that he recognized that I was the truth seer in the family and it wasn’t my responsibility to “fix” the family anymore and that with his passing he wanted me to go live my life without the entanglement of my dysfunctional siblings. This “permission” was such a gift. It allowed me to recognize that I am a truth seer and not a scapegoat.
I was always the truth teller but was an only child, so my narc mother needed to keep me as the default Golden Child until she picked off all the relatives one by one. I knew she'd turn on me and even sat down and made a timeline of how long it would take her. Usually it took 2-3 years for her to destroy someone or force them to go no contact once she targeted them [she always needs ONE enemy]. In my estimation she'd be 72 before she got to me. I knew she'd save me for last. She was 71. I am now 'the enemy' and the scapegoat because there's literally no one on earth that will speak to her. Instead of cherishing her only relationship w her only child she made the choice to have one last enemy. I don't participate in any of this so it's truly pathetic
You are extraordinarily clear-sighted! At least you weren't blindsided by her targeting. My dad is similar but since his original scapegoat, my brother, died at 22 (and I do believe he got a certain satisfaction from his death), there have been no other scapegoats except me. The other family members are flying monkey enablers. He started targeting me in 2020 and I cut contact in 2023. Similar timescales. Yes, they have to have an enemy...
I accepted my mother’s abuse for years until my daughter turned 7 and started to notice it. She went from adoring her grandmother to consistently not wanting anything to do with her. It made the family dynamic very difficult (this was her sole childcare while I worked part time) and my mother began really acting up and resenting being seen and called out. I turned my life upside down to be able to decline the childcare and set profound boundaries. They have very limited contact and absolutely zero unsupervised contact. I now regularly take the brunt of my mother’s volleys in order to keep my daughter out of it. And I couldn’t care less. Once my daughter saw the truth and struggled to be around it, it was time for me to protect her and help her leave the situation, at all costs. I will not allow her to be treated any way other than what she deserves. And every child deserves love, honesty, security, and respect.
I've become a scapegoat, & I'm scared to become a truth teller, because I feel some friendships have already made up their minds (flying monkeys) I haven't felt more alone in the last 18 months of my life, but I am so thankful for seeing the truth finally. I've cleansed a few narcissistic people out of my life & moved out from a sociopathic roommate just 6 months ago. I'm slowly becoming myself again & so thankful for the peace in my life again. I appreciate Dr. Ramani & her videos so much, I feel the awakening it's giving in my life again & I thank you all for your comments, because it helps me not to feel so alone. I believe in you all & wish you the strength for the battles going on in your life that others don't see. 🙏
Courage! I used to be shy, and I'm still introverted, but I am now an absolute firebrand, and I will say what I think whether others like it or not. I'm never rude, just frank - a truth teller. It is extremely freeing. And I don't care what others think of me. And so called "friends" are not really friends if they're flying monkeys. Who needs them? I don't, and you don't either. Once they're cleared out and you can see more clearly the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, there's room for great people to come into your life. That's what happened to me and continues. You can get there too! I still have a lot of inner work to do, due to being a narc target (which I still am and perhaps always will be?), but I've come such a long way.
@avennewessel8699 Thank you for your words. I've felt so free and thinking so much clearly. It's also made me realize how thankful I am for the strong & heathy relationships I do have. & I guess we'll both continue to have those targets, can't let their negativity bring us down to their sorry insecurities. Well wishes to you 🙏
Part of the reason this is scary is because of the lie we are told, that we must be the bigger person and if we do everything “right” the relationship will take care of itself, that not having some specific attachments, like to a parent, means we are the defective ones. You can sense the truth, not tell it and be a scapegoat anyway (narcissists have this weird radar for them), or remain your authentic self, and be a scapegoat. I felt worse abandoning my authentic feelings and responses than being triangulated and attacked. Once you realize that every person’s responses are owned by them and, while it may hurt to have someone unfairly speak poorly of us, that it doesn’t change who we know ourselves to be, you realize that their (flying monkeys) response says a lot more about them than you.
My family knew that I had some kind of abilities to see things. At times I was praised. At times I was sort of attacked. I hated our church. I hated the minister. Wow was I right. My dad even apologized. He said I don't know how you know these things but I won't question you on religion again. I don't believe that my parents were clinical narcissists. But there definitely was major narcissistic damage in them.
I had a similar situation when I was at Church questioning all of the foolishness going on with the Building Fund. Our church had just cash flowed a brand-new building yet for some reason the request to give more into the building fund increased.
I hated our minister, too. He used to practically scream from the podium, all sweaty and red faced (like Hitler) that we are all SINNERS! And that THE FLESH IS WEAK!!" Every Sunday. I would look over at my mother, who was as pure to me as ivory soap flakes. I'd see her eyes closed, her head hanging down with such a sad look on her face. When I was about ten, I said to her, "There isn't one single bone in your body that sins, I just know it. Why do you look so guilty and sad when he starts carrying on like that?" She said, "Thank you, but I was taught that all ministers are right." I said, "I bet he's screaming about HIMSELF!" Years later, we found out that he'd been carrying on a thirty year long affair with the church secretary! 😂🤪
Truth teller, scapegoat, and lifelong realist. Catholic. The first sacrament is penance, which means confession. I was 6 and had heard people speaking about how unchristian our priest was. He was truly terrible. The first confession is done face to face. I told him I would not confess to him. When asked why I told him that he was not a good Christian. When he said I had to our God couldn’t forgive me, I reminded him that we can all speak to God ourselves and if we ask for forgiveness, he will grant it, so God already knows and has forgiven me. We sat there, at an impasse, as he figured out what I already knew. That he had no option but to give me the sacrament, regardless of my participation, or explain (or risk having me do it for him) why he could not.
Dr they always win. Even when people see them cheating. It’s unbelievable there power of manipulation. I have/had many narcissistic people in my life. I stop talking with / about them and they still talking about me and do their best to poison my life. They can’t stand that I am a strong / positive person. I think it how they get others to believe on them. I wish I could talk with you in person. Again, thank you so much for investing in this theme . Even though I am strong it’s exhausting to deal with so many narcissistic people… your videos helped me tremendously 💕🌷
I feel the same. It's ridiculous & very unfair & I can't believe how others can't see the obvious signs of a Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde type of personality, it messes with me too. I wish you peace of mind on your journey in life & hoping the best for you!
I was the truth seer, teller caregiver and scapegoat of a vulnerable NARC parent. I recently went no contact thanks to Dr. Ramani. I am no longer a puppet on the puppeteer strings as she controlled my CNS and used it to her bidding. My heart goes out in support to everyone tuning to Dr. Ramani for her wisdom & guidance.
Dr Ramani, I know you don’t read the comments but I pray someone communicates to you what a powerful gift you have. You have completely changed my understanding of my past and offered me information that has contributed to more healing than any of the many other methods I have tried. Simply put, you change lives for the better by offering us education and understanding. Bless you and please keep sharing your gift. ❤
when you are the only one in your life seeing what is wrong, that in itself is a form of alienation/separation wich in turn becomes isolation by default...
Yes, I can relate to that! It is indeed a very lonely place to be, when you are the only one who can see what seems to be so obvious, but others just can't see it. I am isolated and alone, but it is better than trying to play along with their craziness! I am done with that, and if I am alone for the rest of my life, at least I will have peace.
One thing we're not? COWARDS. People sense I'm okay in my own skin & they *hate* that. Its okay to be different, & recognize your difference will make them fear you. You know who you are, & that's all you need in this lifetime. I keep to myself more & more, use better discernment, & shut my mouth when what I have to say may put me at risk. I don't need to state what I see as obvious. And the times I catch myself holding some slight on a feeling level, I recognize it, reason it out, then get rid of it faster than ever. Thank you, Dr. Ramani. Youre saving lives out here. And a shoutout to all my fellow scapegoats. When & if the Zombie Apocalypse hits, we'll be the ones holding shit together 😅
In my experience, it depends on the setting and circumstances. Most of my truth telling has caused me to receive bad treatment from the narcissists. This bad treatment varies from the narcissist trying to get me fired and destroy my future employability….to narcissistic relatives wanting to get me put away in a mental facility/ spend life on heavy medication. ( my relatives who were the narcissists in question knew nothing about psychology. They were projecting their own lunacy onto me!) Basically, I have found that narcissists can’t handle hearing truth from truth-seers and truth-tellers. Once the narcissist feels threatened, they will resort to many forms of punishment. In the workplace or social situations….the narcissists will seek to destroy you any way they can. No punishment inflicted by the narcissist ( psychological, financial, social, reputation, material) is too small or too big….to inflict on you.
Whether the truthseer and trutheteller will become a scapegoat directly coresponds to the ability of narcissistic parent to change. Since the narcissists have limited ability to change, if any at all, it's very likely that the truthseer will be victimized.
Narcissists can change dramatically when someone with more power enters the room. When police arrive the abuser appears calm while the victim appears hysterical or crazy. Narcissists know what they're doing and will morph into different roles for different people depending on status and potential threat.
@@chriscunningham8807 Yes, they certainly know how to play the people around them, and yes, more status, power and potential threat, they are more careful, when playing their game. Awful people!
Both of my parents (divorced) are 100% narcissistic in their behaviour, and throughout my life, i have always been nearly all people's scapegoat. Add to that, I'm ASD level 1, ADHD, dyspraxic, and have what used to be called, Sensory Inegration Disorder. All i have done in life is strive to do good and help people, but most people just hurt me instead.
@rubberbiscuit99 it's a struggle to not say what I think. What I mean is, I have developed the ability to say absolutely nothing (trauma created that ability in me), but, if I do say something, it's difficult to not say what I believe to be true.
@@an_anishinaabe_son You are not deceptive, cunning, or manipulative, and it is challenging for you to deal with people who are. I bet you are solid on recognizing patterns though, which is the ability that will allow you to identify these miscreants so you can flush them out of your life. In the meantime, yes, they HATE authenticity and honesty because these ding their core wounds and cause them to lash out. With no connection to self, they cannot be honest or authentic. How dare you shine your light and do what they cannot? I'm going through it right now with someone like this, trying to summon guile to get through it, and it's feckin torture. I have to write out my anger so I don't blow a gasket. They love when we blow a gasket. Oi.
Here`s why I am the truth teller: I was born when most of my siblings were adults, so, as a kid, I hadn`t learned how to lie and, when i said the truth, I was sebsequentely and imediately isolated and cut out of needs, cause I had nothing to offer as validation, could not be flattered in charge for something, just needed things for my development.
I was adopted and both siblings (bio children of my parents) were about a decade older. I wonder if that grows us up a bit faster, as far as seeing the world how it is, making us more likely to be truth tellers? I was 6 when I told my priest he wasn’t a good Christian (he wasn’t) because of some things my parents discussed, 8 when I pointed out that the “flu” my mom said my sister had lasted longer than 2 weeks and was likely anorexia (lots of Oprah), and 9 when my mom said my brother wasn’t feeling well and I pointed out that it was likely a hangover. She really didn’t like when I pointed out their failings because they were, by extension, hers.
@@TheBaumcm children initially have no notion about the reasons adults have to hide sruff. When they are with other children who are being raised to be narcissists, they learn how to lie together, there`s a certain balance of power and instrumentalization of the children by the narcissistic parents, alternately. When everybody else is adult, they have more power than the child, so they gaslight that child more easily, as well as isolating them, stonewalling, and treating them silenly, which doesn't leave room for the alternance between proviledge and abuse which forms the narcissitic personaity. Trhth tellers spend much time alone, raising themselves, outside the home, I would disappear for wole afternoons at a pretty young age and nobody would come for me.
This is such a precise description of my "role" in my family of origin..Also advocating for other (older) siblings. And being and praised & devalued within that system. How confusing for the youngest and only girl. Now as a single mother with the expected "baggage" of experiences, I Thank you Dr Romani for every single post. And your powerful truth telling leadership. 💜
I was the truth see-er as a child and became the truth tell-er as an adult in my narcissistic Asian family system. It is a very lonely and frightening place to be when you speak out against the narcissist’s bullying behaviours. I am trying to village build away from them and heal but the healing journey is hard. I sometimes wonder why I was given this life. 😢
I have met so many truth seer/scapegoated people in the intentional communities I have lived and worked in. Something about the accountability required to live in such communities, attract us. We don’t feel safe other places. Also, these are family to us because we know we can’t be loved by our families. It felt so good to be validated in these spaces. I felt so so alone and knew people wouldn’t believe me about the crazy that was my family. Some family have come to see. I thought it would make me feel better, but it didn’t because they then were sad and confused and realized they can’t really help me or my kids. It’s so jacked up. I will be in community for this spring/summer because I have to get away and ground and re focus often. I am so grateful for this.
Being blamed for things that clearly weren’t my fault was a theme of my childhood and teenage years. I was blamed for my mother’s friends not inviting her to events, for the price of things she had promised to get me and most of all for bad things that my golden child sister did and then denied.
I was chastised for the price of my braces and glasses, both essential mind you, any time I “misbehaved” or didn’t conform, as though it kept her from doing something else.
@ 9:30. "The child may see the truth telling as a curse rather than a blessing". How ironic you should say that. Just last night at work a coworker told me that I was a truth teller and I told her that trait has never bode well for me and only given me grief.
I was more of a truth teller with certain members of my family. My uncle and sister’s husband knew I was onto them at an early age. However, I kept quiet and was a truth seer with other family members until I couldn’t take it anymore. Now I am estranged and a scapegoat.
I was a scapegoat, a golden child, parentified, truth seer, emotional incest, helper..fixer. I was smack in the middle of my parents..a pawn in their emotional mess...toddler to college. I get the family roles, crazy dynamics. I got though it, but not unscathed.
I read the question and thought, "THIS truth teller could never not become the scapegoat." I was curious to see if you saw a path to people like me not having gotten scapegoated. Honestly, it's comforting hearing that it was likely inevitable.
Fundamental pattern for a narcissist is the distortion of reality to maintain ego and reduce shame and responsibility. Truth destroys that delusion so they will hit you with both barrels.
Yup,@@TheBaumcm, that really feels like my experience. I'm hit with both barrels because I don't participate in the reality distortions. Honestly, I wonder how many of my fellow autistics end up being the truthtellers (it's really hard for us "to get" the social game of mutually affirming reality distortion) and this is what causes us to be the scapegoats.
Growing up in a dysfunctional family dynamic, much of what Dr. Ramani says here does ring true to me. While I saw that there was something wrong with my family, and I did become incredibly independent, it took many years for me to understand that I could not change that dynamic and it was disappointing. It also did not help me discern away from other narcissistic people that I kept trying to fix or help. At 61 years old, I'm finally coming to an understanding with what had happened in the past but often feel that I was stupid to get involved over and over with narcissistic people. I hope one day, I can stop feeling like that.
Hi Ramani, Thanks for the video. I will add your book to my study project. I've got a stack of books that I need to read this year about complex trauma and empaths and sigma males and energy vampires. I do not enjoy studying. I took 10 years of university and it was painful. Yes, I'm a truth teller and a true seer. My siblings are somewhat intuitive. I'm more intuitive than my siblings. My family members do not help me to understand myself. My mother is encouraging me to work as a janitor. I have separated from my siblings. My sisters are narcissistic and highly disagreeable. I've decided to stop smoking pot. Pot is killing my brain. Brain death is scary. I'm frequently overwhelmed with painful emotions. I've decided that the pain doesn't need to stop me from doing what I need to do. I do not need to be limited by the pain. I can push through the pain. I do not have to identity with the pain as my entire reality. I'm watching videos by Lauren Sapala and Jay Scott who are both INFJs and their videos are helping me. Okay Ramani, thank you for your help. Talk later.
You describe a point in recovery that is like being on a razor's edge. Your courage will be rewarded with peace, once the grief has been felt and processed. ☮️
Being a truth teller, works for me....except in my family system and in some work environments. I think as I got older that is how I learned what environments weren't good..for me anyway. I don't tell people what they think, because I don't know. But I do ask a lot of why questions that bring up truths. Sometimes I bring up observations that will spark rage. My mother asked me one time why I was calling my brother. Why I didn't just believe her when she and my dad were giving me two different stories. And I said mom, sometimes dad confuses things, but sometimes you just lie. She asked me what's the difference? She asked me how I knew she lied, and I said because you lie to me about me. I should have known that would spark a rage and a vendetta, but like I wasn't a kid anymore and I guess I thought I was safe from her abuse.
They have patterns of behavior. They are predictable. It does take some of the sting out, especially when it’s just laughable. I know my mom speaks ill of me to others in my hometown, and has since I was a child. Many who meet me in adulthood are shocked in a good way, by my behavior in person (I’m more like my dad who was generally loved by everyone). It used to bother me that there were people out there who thought I was a terrible person but when I realized that it doesn’t change who I am, it’s less impactful.
Truth teller and (former) scapegoat child in a narcissistic cult family. My family has seen irrefutable proof that my now deceased father was a narcissist abuser, including my mom, who left him after 58 years of marriage and was on the verge of losing her mind from all the years of gaslighting. Despite this, my family is only able to continue with the scapegoating narrative. I had hopes that my family would see the light and become good people who saw the error of their ways but instead they continue to smear and scapegoat. Unfortunately I have had to come to the conclusion that these people are damaged and crooked - the only option moving forward is "no contact".
man do i ever feel this. as in i had also hoped when my gma died that we could do things differently and yet stayed the same. and no contact them being on the list them planning for them to be permantly gone, and also the shock of them turning on me on a dime cus i couldnt keep quiet anymore. as i said to uncle i am not payed enough for this bull shit.
It is the hardest when it is people who are supposed to love you unconditionally. Thank goodness I still have truth seeing abilities because it allows me to see that the fault is theirs. Still hurts like the dickens, especially as the people who understood are no longer with me but I know that they saw me for who I was. Take comfort in the people who see you the way you see yourself, flaws and all, and recognize that the others are hurt people who might never be able to do better and that it’s okay to not subject yourself to them.
I was a truth see-er but not teller. I didn't become a truth teller until I understood about narcissism, about 3 years ago. Now I have trouble NOT telling my siblings. In fact I think I told all of my siblings but one. They had already made the discovery. It boggles my mind that some of my siblings like their rose colored glasses. Some have holes in them, where they can almost see the truth but they still wear the glasses. I have a closer relationship with some of my siblings because of what we know. I am very glad to have this knowledge but it came at a cost. You can either be ignorant, or you can have the truth. Thanks for all of your videos, Dr Ramani!!!
People retain their rose-coloured glasses until they too suffer abuse, exploitation, neglect, undue criticism and blame for someone else's mistake. The lens soon cracks.
Well, I'm aspiring to in my current narcissistic system (workplace). Thank God it's just a temporary contact. So messed up. They are the self proclaimed nicest team in the company. The mindfuck!
One different dynamic I observed in my family: I have parent and grand parents who had narcissistic traits even though in milder part of the spectrum. With me being a truth teller they always felt defeated as in they couldn't break through me. And I am proud to have always called out their BS and not let them affect me more (thanks to my other thoughtful parent). But they truly felt defeated and preferred other children to me. It did hurt me a lot but thankful to have always seen the truth and stood by it. I think my other loving and empathetic parent gave me the strength and kept me sane.
Maybe this is weird, but I was, at least to some extent, the truth seer, even though I was a golden child and my brother was a scapegoat. I got golden child bragging, and to some extent golden child treatment, but only when I was giving my father a chance to live his life through me, and only when it didn't trigger him to compete. The rest of the time, abuse. I knew that what he did to my brother was wrong, but I didn't have the words and I would never have said anything. That's how you can be the truth seer and the golden child both -- I had one hell of a poker face and I wasn't stupid enough to open my mouth. I have the words now, and last year I was able to tell my brother that I had seen the way our father treated him and known it was wrong, but didn't have the words. Now I have the words, and I wanted him to know I saw it, and it was wrong. I gave him some examples. He's not ready to accept that he was abused, and I didn't use the word, but I hope it will help him to heal, even if it's only a little.
Golden child can vary but usually they will have a specific standard scapegoat, which switches to others, like you said. Perfect example. My brother passed when he was 37. Both adopted, we were about a month apart and had never celebrated major birthdays alone. When I turned 40, I wanted to do something “good” so I signed up for St Baldrick’s and raised some money by shaving my head, donating my hair (my brother used to do it every summer for ease of care and coolness). My mother, when I told her, really didn’t like the idea and said I shouldn’t do it. However, once she saw it on FB (fundraising) and saw positive support, she flipped and made it seem publicly like she was in full support. Now that my dear dad and brother have passed, it’s just my mom, and her bio children left (along with their kids). I have no need to visit, as I can text and check in with everyone separately, so I can keep her civil by basically enforcing an “act a fool, have no participation in my life” policy.
I have 💯 become the scapegoat and treated horrifically for seeing and finally speaking truths, it’s been so hard on me. So tired of it all. Not worth my time anymore. Focusing on my well being. ❤ Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
OH MY! This video was so validating! I have never been seen so clearly in my entire life! This is me! Truth teller turned scapegoat! Thank you so very much Dr. Ramani ❤ I feel like the light just got switched on in my life! I’m finally breathing deeply! I’m not crazy 😢
My stepmother would blame me when my younger 1/2 brothers misbehaved. According to her they were perfect little angels when I wasn't there and only when I visited, every other weekend, did they act out. Fast foward to adulthood and I'm the only fully functional adult out of all my parents children. My younger brothers still live at home with thier mother into thier 40s.
Adopted and my mother would act out when I pointed out the mistakes her bio children made as a kid, she never directly blamed me for what they did but for poking holes in the lies she used to cover them up. “Your sister has a really bad flu”. She’s been sick for a month. Not the flu, anorexia. “Your underage brother isn’t feeling well” he has a hangover. “Your niece was born premature” She was born exactly on her due date and her parents weren’t married when she was conceived (not a big deal due to other factors but mom). After each there would be some retaliation. It was better when my dad was around because he’d call her out, try to protect me from the crazy, and he appreciated truth. She tries to gaslight me even now because it shames her by extension.
Being a truth-seer got me fired from my last job. It also got me blackballed at my old church. As well, it made my wife cold and indifferent in our marriage. Now, I follow law # 1 that I saw in a book- never outshine the 'master'.
The mail that sticks out will be hammered down. We’ll go ahead and stick out but remember that their criticism is not valid. Respect yourself. Do honest positive self talk.
Thank you so much for everything you do Dr. Ramani. Your content has helped me SO greatly during these last few months of post narc healing ❤. I just wanted to say that you look really pretty today and I love the bright pink on you Girrrl 💅 😚
Personally as a truth teller and a truth seer my entire life I can honestly say there is no way to do either one without becoming the scapegoat. However there are ways to guard against it and it really depends on the type of narcissist and flying monkeys they have around them. Sometimes silence is good, silence leaves them confused and often gives them the spotlight, which is what they want. This then allows you to observe what type of image they are trying to project to you and others and you can act how you see fit accordingly. Eventually though they'll scapegoat you just for being the quite one because it's not like you'll defend yourself right? Now that you have all of this info one them comes faze 2. The snarkyness or shit talking as I like to call it. Depending on the type of narcissist you're dealing with you might have a lot or little experience with this. The part where a lot of empathic people fail is that they don't realize that they are defending themselves and will see themselves as narcissist when they get their hands dirty. The narcissist will use that against if you let them. If you can articulate yourself well enough you can expose this to the flying monkeys and they will side you. They probably have gone through something similar. This will make the narcissist go insane and maybe even you a little but you will win. They survive like that for long and people won't want to be around that. You know you've when they try to hurt you in secret and not make a huge scene. They made scenes before to make you look bad now they can't. Now all they can do is try to make it seem like you're no better which won't work if you are.
Truth-teller with snark. Dr. Ramani, you have absolutely nailed me. Never in my life have I seen this explained so well, (or at all). Thank you for this insight.
I think if you're a truth-teller or truth-seer in a situation where you could be a scapegoat, you have to realize that being that scapegoat is NOT NECESSARILY an identity you have to be attached to. Just my thoughts. Then the question arises which is: how to get into that space where you don't identify. It's very easy to say to not identify and just meditate it away or something like that. But this is ongoing work because I think these states that are internalized like for example being a scapegoat, are fairly deeply embedded. "Meanwhile, back at the ranch -- " ☮️💟🤨 Thanks for checking out my non- expertise. The book sounds like a great read!!!
I agree that it’s simply a label, but unfortunately, since these systems do not change, it becomes really easy to fall back into patterns of behavior (one reason why addicts have so much trouble when they return from rehab), for example when going home for holidays. The truth teller is the identity. The scapegoat is a behavioral result in narcissistic systems
Interesting point. Roles and positions shift depending on who is pulling the strings. New boss and a restructuring of workers. Dictator deposed and a new leader brings positive change or many narcissists vie for the leading position. Often the same sick system is formed again with many victims being scapegoated for daring to challenge the leaders until the group normalises unfair and abnormal conduct.
I think that it is a thing of setting up the proper boundaries. My husband is a truth teller! You always can choose to not take the bait. If the narcissist wants you to take their side against someone else, you can refuse to take sides, period. If they ask you why, then you can tell them that in a shouting match, there ARE no winners. Maybe then, you can help someone to shift their perspective a little bit! ...I have found in my own life that putting up the proper boundaries not only helps you to grow, and change for the better, but if someone has known you over time, it might help others to discover a different way of being... Thank you for making this video! Take care. Susan
My ex husband definitely was the scapegoat in his family growing up. He has these very issues from seeing his parents issues as well as being treat badly specifically by his father. He knew this behavior was wrong and yet he continued the cycle and was verbally, mentally, emotionally and physically abusive towards me. He learned this narcissistic behavior which cause our marriage to fail.
There were two truth seers in my family of origin. I became the scapegoat. My younger step brother became what I call the alternate, most would call him the invisible child. My older step brother was the golden child. If all three of us kids were around the oldest was the golden child, I was the scapegoat, the youngest was invisible. If there were only two kids around there was always a golden child and a scapegoat. If it was the oldest son(golden child) and the youngest son, the youngest became the scapegoat. If it was me(scapegoat) and the youngest son, the youngest became the golden child. If the youngest wanted attention or validation he would just throw me(scapegoat) under the bus. As bad as it was being the scapegoat I am glad I wasn't the alternate. I went no contact eleven years ago. The youngest became the scapegoat and also went no contact at some point in time. Now the golden child has to deal with his narcissistic mother(my evil step monster). The golden child still doesn't get it, he is starting to see how abusive she is, but he still doesn't get it.
Wait till she runs out of human punching bags and turns on the golden child as well then claims to be the victim. Some people are too damaged and abusive to be able to interact healthily and safely with other people. Sad but true. The problem with toxic families is the sense of obligation to accept and tolerate abuse or risk being rejected and ostracised for complaining about abnormal and abusive treatment.
I wept after going through comments here. My heart breaks for those who cherish and stand by truth. In a comment I made here, please don’t ever let your light dim and please be selective with whom you share pearls with, because the swine will not hesitate to turn on and trample you! 🙏 That’s why we sit quietly and observe who is worthy of our truth!
I have this role in the family I married into. My mother-in-law is in late stage dementia and her first in-home caregiver was a bad fit (skipping days, trying to get my MIL to eat the way the caregiver wanted, pushing supplements, etc.). I asked, Are you happy with her? They said no. I said, tell her what you want. If she won't bend, get someone new. Right? When my FIL fired the caregiver, I got a barrage of unhinged texts from the former caregiver that I was responsible. FIL told her that.
No you cant challenge them as a child , even an adolescent. And they cant understand that you know somethings wrong. But you will be protected by authentic affection which will disguise you protect you give you patience. And you ll be protected by incomplete understanding as long as you have an exit plan , a job and moving out at 18 ,or going away to school a LONG way off prefereably taking something your parents lack interest in. Much much later maybe 50 60 years later you might understand the whole story, at 70 it will hurt. If you fully understood at say 14 it would have broken you. But its a catastrophe for a kid.
I started seeing it at age 13, asking very pointed questions of my mother. This was not well received. I continued to play her game to stay safe but I continued to see. I also used sarcasm to communicate with my mother bc she found this passive aggressive communication style amusing. This is how she communicated. My younger sister was the scapegoat bc she was more overtly resistant and had a closer relationship with our empathic father. I was the fixer and I took up the role of protecting my sister.
As the truth seer in my situation, the narcissist stopped using me as a scapegoat once they saw me as a threat. I wasn't afraid to tell others about their behavior, and I'd call them out in the moment. I'd essentially hold a mirror up to their behavior and they hated what they saw. They would usually become violent towards me when I did this, but once I was big enough to fight back and was clearly stronger, they never touched me again and turned their sights onto a new scapegoat. I'd still call out their behavior. Now they are on their best behavior when I'm around. The next scapegoat, my little brother, had it much worse than me and I still feel that guilt. When I lived with them, I would try to distract the narcissist when they lashed out at my brother. I left home when I became an adult and have felt that guilt ever since.
That was me in childhood and later in life, like in my marriage. It was like someone branded "Scapegoat" across my forehead for life. People still try to get to me, but these days, for the most part, I've learned how to bob and weave!
What a great question! Dr. Ramani, do you think birth order plays a part in many of these "roles" many of us took on as children in our families of origin? I realize there are a lot of dynamics at play with birth order and it can't simply be applied across the board (e.g. youngest child being born with much, much older siblings can be more like an only child or oldest child.). I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you♥
Thankfully I was a lost child growing up. I moved away in my early 20s so I was able to keep my distance. I may be the scapegoat as an adult but I'm NC so it doesn't matter. I'm free from that circus.
You’ve managed to upload videos almost incessantly for the several years I’ve been subbed to you Dr. That is quite a feat!!! Thank you so much for all you do in your quest to help people who are victimized by narcissists! ❤
5:00 "an easy target like a child" yes I was & have been severely abused since birth ive only been safe from predators (not on the net I have daily murder threats & criminal hacking on the net & criminal hacking of all my work & emails & irl crimes committed by strangers on the net stalking me in public irl) for almost 4 years for the first time in my whole entire life
All of these people talk and are programmed and hopefully paid to serve other people's needs. Good servants know what the master wants or needs before he makes the request. Seems that some people were programmed to service the needs of others especially if assigned that role in childhood.
If in triangle (drama) with two narcissist parents, yes. Because golden child and only real audience - and both try to make me their ally in putting the other parent down. I'm not blaimed of anything just tried to unalive and every day told to kill myself by my narc father. I have no idea what this role is in dr Ramani system. And does it matter? There must be so many weird situations and dynamics with the narcissits, depending of how psychopatic they are, how many people, who's lying the most, who has most social anf economic power, other health and mental health issues
I'm still a truth teller but I am not the scapegoat anymore, now I'm old and when they try making me the butt of the joke or try any of their other crap I call them out on the spot and if they don't like it here i am. A 50 years of abuse it made me a mess around and find out kinda person
The list of scapegoating tactics went on and on and on and my story ticks all the boxes. The nicknames, the silent treatment, not being taken to the dentist or doctor, not being driven to a sports game, my gift money being handed to my sisters, my 18 years old sister puching 14 year old me in the face, and me getting SCREAMED at that I was WORTHLESS SCUM for pushing her back. The same sister assaulting me with a sauce pan at 23 when I was 19, chasing me out of the house where I still lived.
I once suggested that my father’s anger at me was related to his mother and he slapped me very hard across my face. I was 12 and my mother had just divorced him. Later I realized he was projecting his feelings about that perceived abandonment as well as his mother. He definitely took out his self loathing on my brother who never really saw my father’s immaturity and abuse.
just stay firm,take positive action and don't bend to false narratives,if that means no contact,then so be it,let the narcissists learn their lesson while we learn ours.THAT'S HOW YOU LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD and helps keep you calm,safe,sane,healthy and stable,if narcissists want to try control everything,let them know it's not going to happen.
I used to be the golden child growing up with a narcissistic father and an enabling/silent mother. I have many siblings, but I know that I was treated the best because I was the oldest and had more in common with my father. I was brainwashed to believe that his ways were the only way. After I moved out, I got into a toxic relationship, but then went to therapy and dumped him. AFTER THAT, I published a book of poetry regarding narcissistic relationships, abuse, and other emotional topics. My father thinks I'm out to get him, and thinks that my truth, my own reality is "delusional"--which hits deep because I was almost diagnosed with bipolar. I genuinely want to be a truth teller, because I feel guilty for the way my sisters were treated when we were kids. How can I maintain relationships with family members who live with my father without getting too close to him? I ruminate on this question daily...
UNO, when the scapegoat 👀 it, walks away to fend for then selves then the unit can stay together, grow into who they arrived here to be. We understand learnt behavior well, a long the journey we sniff through the BS and walk away. Being a Truth Teller is only helpful to the world around us when we walk our talk, it's sexy to Boot✌️❤️🌳💯 #thankyouall #enjoythejourney
I am a truth teller and my mom's scapegoat. I have been so hurt and confused my entire life and nothing made sense until I was enlightened by people like Dr. Ramani. My book is scheduled to arrive today and I cannot wait to read it!
👍🌹💖 your explanations..However, I have witnessed some similar cases as you had described..However, the ending results wasn't wasted my times of following up..Actually it was Very Rewarding for me to see that the Scapegoats or Truth Seers were actually NOT as dumbfounded as I thought..🤔🤔 I questioned of YYY &Y didn't you fight back??..The answer was: They will all pay dearly on their redemption day's whether it is NOW OR LATER ON as the Laws of Karma R NEVER WRONG as same as the Laws of Gravitational Forces as long as one is still on Earth Planet with physical forms..However, the Laws of Karma has no boundaries of times or whatever forms ones are in..Period..
This video described my whole life with my parents and relationships. I am so saddened to know that we as a type will always be attacked and scapegoated. I hope all reading these comments find solace in that we are not alone.
I want to know, How do I break free, I've alreadu lost part of my empathy because of this situation, I don't want this "gift" everyone takes advantage of me on one way or another, how do I shut it down?
I went through that. It was *brutal*. It's also what makes you human; they really do win if you kill it. What you can do is not let your heart rule your head. There are times people need to feel the pain and expend effort to grow up. Don't deprive them of it. Leaving a person to remain a child forever is cruel. There are other times they need a kind word or a confidante. That's awesome. But not at the expense of your own needs. And definitely not if it leads to disrespectful behaviour or entitlement. Be compassionate towards yourself as much as the next person. You'll find a balance, and what works for you. I'm oversimplifying. Just a starting idea. Do what works for you. I hope this helps. 😊
So at 63, a truth teller/seeker, I find that most people don't want to hear the truth. I just wait until I'm asked which is rare. I then tell the truth as gently as I can. What do we say at other times? I'm not going to lie. So I mostly talk about the weather etc and just listen.
I'm the truthteller and can tell you I mix with my "family" like oil and water, we don't talk, hang out or really have anything to do with each other's lives in any way, shape form or fashion. I personally wish it was different. I pray for unity and Jesus says there is unity up here. I've tried to bring stuff to the surface and YOU CANNOT FIX IT folks. Give the paperwork to Jesus and go on with your lives. If you're reading this comment; you have a book written about you in Heaven, this book is your purpose here on Earth, go do your book and let nothing stop you. I love you.
Growing up with a narcissistic parent was a never ending quest for validation in their self-centered reality that I was forced to live in. While everyone’s childhood should be innocent and worry free, I had to live each day navigating emotional minefields where my identity revolved around a performance that never came with any applause.
Whew, chile. They truly cannot be parents
Could not have said it better. Bravo!
So articulate. Well said!
This is so wonderfully put, tank you for expressing it this way
Edit: I want to add I'm a professional writer and I don't think I've ever described what you just fit into a few sentences so vividly, yet so spot on
It truly is a performance to survive alive two narcissistic parents!
My entire career has been a disaster. I am attacked in every job that I take. I am immediately threatening to narcissistic and/or insecure people. I disowned half of my family because of their mistreatment, and the education that I have given myself since, has made me a threat to anyone narcissistic. The cost of "knowing" has been high.
You're far from alone.
Narcs will in turn scapegoat you, even at work which threatens your money on top of your wellbeing. What should you do? It would help me to know the answer
@@gregpendrey6711 Start your own business.
@@gregpendrey6711 I have tried my guts out. I wish I had an answer. I even tried being a phony and tried to get along with them. But it doesn't work. Nothing has worked so far. They can feel it. They can feel that I know that they are low lifes. I've tried playing a fool and putting myself down out of desperation. That seemed to work a little better, but it made my soul sick.
I am starting my own business, and I am looking for any and every way to work from home. The reactions that I get from unhealthy people are so extreme, that in my last position I actually feared for my safety. There were so many disgusting people, that I would not be alone in a room with them without a camera. And I saw them makeup stories and make up witnesses to accuse people of things. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm not. Believe it or not, I am hard to rattle. But the length that I saw them go to, shocked me.
Exactly. I am a hard worker and actually quite intelligent but I have never in my life received a promotion. The last 2 jobs I had I was forced out of them by narcissists who felt threatened by me and made false accusations about me (I was not the only staff member who experienced this in these work places. I'm not claiming unique victimhood here, I think I was the only person who actually saw the pattern of what was going on). I responded each time by leaving and getting an even LOWER paying job thinking I would be safer that way thinking I was not threatening in a lower position. WRONG! Narcs would see you as a threat in a non-paying volunteer position!! As long as you are still breathing you are a threat!
This is also true in workplaces and organizations where narcissists with their flying monkeys have the power.
Yikes.....how toxic
I got gaslighted when I told the truth in workplace settings. DARVO never admits the truth.
Amen and Amen.
🎯💯🔥
Amen!!!!
If the truth seeer is not the direct scapegoat as a child, they will be later.
It usually doesn't come until later because that's when it becomes more apparent as an adult seeing the actions of another person. Rather than a child seeing a parent. A child seeing a parent will brush it off, because that's who they rely on to take care of them. But as you get older and you see examples of how it should've been. It quickly becomes clear that their actions were in no way "normal". Which then leads to further digging and more truth comes to light
@@Vastlyuncanny Fr
It is when the truth SEER becomes the truth TELLER that scapegoating happens.
"The scapegoated child living in permanent punishment" really hits home for me. Because that's what I'm living
me too
I was a scapegoat as a child. I did not realize it until I was an old man. One thing it cost me was the internalization of the insulting coldness with which I was treated. That is, I came to believe the lies that were told me. But I finally figured this out, with your help and the help of others. And with it I finally discovered healthy self love, self respect, and limited optimism for the remaining few years of my life. Thank you.
I can identify. 60 male. 😎
About to turn 60 as well. I'm learning it's not unusual to only realise at this late age... Let's enjoy the last years we have left!
I am 88 years old now and this is the story of my life from early childhood on. I still have problems with that at time but it is getting better
You are loved, Sir. ❤
@@BLB-mf8kk thank you
I just turned 60 years and have been no contact for 4 years. My brother was really the scapegoat. He died young with a lot of problems that my parents will NEVER accept or even question their role in ( the beatings and neglect). I, of course was neglected, beaten and ignored. My birthdays often ignored. I never felt seen, loved or heard. I was trying to remember one act of affection from my parents and couldn’t. I believe it left me with an inability to attach to other humans. Or maybe I am just being sensible. But I deeply love wild animals, birds and horse.
yes i hear u on loving birds and animals. and difficulty attaching to other humans.i also feel u in having a brother who is full scapegoat and physical and emotional violence. as in beatings or neglect.
Cats were wonderful friends to me. But eventually I did meet a woman and trust her. I hope you get lucky too
I love animals also! Their love is unconditional and they are so cute loving and funny!
I think the reason so many find animals comforting is the fact that they are not deceptive in their affection. It is not a means to an end, especially with cats. They usually hate having their faces, with their sensitive whiskers touched but tolerating it means they are trusting you. If animals give or receive affection, it implies trust, which is something difficult to achieve with humans once you have experienced this particular behavioral pattern.
@@TheBaumcm yep
Even as a small child I was the truth seer and teller, which made me even more of a target and the scapegoat to my narc parent. My dad, from whom I did receive love, affection, and validation, told me that when I was two years old, I would sit and observe everyone and everything around me as if I were thinking, "Something is not quite right."
You're very lucky to have him. Nobody ever noticed me. But I can also remember doing that. I would stay alone because I couldn't widstand most societal interactions. . I still think today that no one can really understand me😢
@@user-ku4vu3um3w My prayers to you for healing, comfort, and strength. 💕
Truthtellers/highly sensitive kids underestimate how deeply asleep everyone is.
We think if we explain what's wrong, adults will fix it. Instead we adjust to others dellusions bc we learn nobody listens anyway. I was truthteller kid and then got silenced, surpressed by school and society. Finding now my authentic personality I lost as a kid to avoid abuse. I've discovered I have sense of humor and love to laugh. Everytime I get drunk I start laughing histerically. I was in survival mode most of my childhood/adolescence, I totally surpressed what's natural for me.
yesss... yes. expecting other adults to help to fix it. yeah mostly i work within a broken system knowing its soo broken.
Same experience here. Much more forthright as a child. We are told that for society to move forward, everyone must conform and someone has to be the bigger person. That someone is the person who tells the truth. Like many questions, “do I look fat in this?”, truth tellers will not only point out the truth directly, because they assume everyone values it the way they do, but when castigated for their answer, they will usually (at least I will) respond, you know I only tell the truth so why ask me. I wanted friends in college so learned to mask my truth. When I found that many people actually valued my authentic self, and that being myself would automatically cut out the jerks, I shifted back some. I am now fully shifting back, like you, and finding it difficult sometimes. Any pointers? Funnily enough, children love it, because rarely do you find adults who will “concede” to truth.
@@TheBaumcmyou described this whole set of behaviors very well. Thank you. Me, as a kid. Always in trouble for speaking truth. Now I’m 66 and don’t give a……I speak the truth, you don’t like it? Change channels.lol
@@HealingMyselfIsTheFocusI hear you! Loud and clear. Alcohol is a depressant. Makes me cry, too. Once I set some boundaries, learned grey rock and literally walked away a few times I realized I could change my behavior. Do something for yourself. Immediately. Could be something small, just for you.
I observed such blatant lies, abuse, and neglect from both parents that by first grade I knew what they were but didn’t have the words, so I thought of them as “terrorists”. A family system based on coercion, punishment, and fear of abuse (not caring, kindness, or love) is surprisingly normal when you’re born into it.
In my case, I have to say it’s a choice in how you decide to see yourself. Thankfully I’m almost finished with my Dad’s estate and that will allow me to cut all ties with my siblings that have become our mother so I no longer have to clean up their messes. My dad’s greatest gift to me before passing was that he recognized that I was the truth seer in the family and it wasn’t my responsibility to “fix” the family anymore and that with his passing he wanted me to go live my life without the entanglement of my dysfunctional siblings.
This “permission” was such a gift. It allowed me to recognize that I am a truth seer and not a scapegoat.
I was always the truth teller but was an only child, so my narc mother needed to keep me as the default Golden Child until she picked off all the relatives one by one. I knew she'd turn on me and even sat down and made a timeline of how long it would take her. Usually it took 2-3 years for her to destroy someone or force them to go no contact once she targeted them [she always needs ONE enemy]. In my estimation she'd be 72 before she got to me. I knew she'd save me for last. She was 71. I am now 'the enemy' and the scapegoat because there's literally no one on earth that will speak to her. Instead of cherishing her only relationship w her only child she made the choice to have one last enemy. I don't participate in any of this so it's truly pathetic
You are extraordinarily clear-sighted! At least you weren't blindsided by her targeting. My dad is similar but since his original scapegoat, my brother, died at 22 (and I do believe he got a certain satisfaction from his death), there have been no other scapegoats except me. The other family members are flying monkey enablers. He started targeting me in 2020 and I cut contact in 2023. Similar timescales. Yes, they have to have an enemy...
I accepted my mother’s abuse for years until my daughter turned 7 and started to notice it. She went from adoring her grandmother to consistently not wanting anything to do with her.
It made the family dynamic very difficult (this was her sole childcare while I worked part time) and my mother began really acting up and resenting being seen and called out.
I turned my life upside down to be able to decline the childcare and set profound boundaries. They have very limited contact and absolutely zero unsupervised contact.
I now regularly take the brunt of my mother’s volleys in order to keep my daughter out of it. And I couldn’t care less. Once my daughter saw the truth and struggled to be around it, it was time for me to protect her and help her leave the situation, at all costs.
I will not allow her to be treated any way other than what she deserves. And every child deserves love, honesty, security, and respect.
If only more parents were like you! Thank you for protecting your child.
@@cosmopolitan794 thank you for taking the time to say this 🥹
No....because the truth see'er, teller, has to be shut down to protect the facade.
DOCTOR R....THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK
I've become a scapegoat, & I'm scared to become a truth teller, because I feel some friendships have already made up their minds (flying monkeys)
I haven't felt more alone in the last 18 months of my life, but I am so thankful for seeing the truth finally. I've cleansed a few narcissistic people out of my life & moved out from a sociopathic roommate just 6 months ago. I'm slowly becoming myself again & so thankful for the peace in my life again. I appreciate Dr. Ramani & her videos so much, I feel the awakening it's giving in my life again & I thank you all for your comments, because it helps me not to feel so alone. I believe in you all & wish you the strength for the battles going on in your life that others don't see. 🙏
Courage! I used to be shy, and I'm still introverted, but I am now an absolute firebrand, and I will say what I think whether others like it or not. I'm never rude, just frank - a truth teller. It is extremely freeing. And I don't care what others think of me. And so called "friends" are not really friends if they're flying monkeys. Who needs them? I don't, and you don't either. Once they're cleared out and you can see more clearly the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, there's room for great people to come into your life. That's what happened to me and continues. You can get there too! I still have a lot of inner work to do, due to being a narc target (which I still am and perhaps always will be?), but I've come such a long way.
@avennewessel8699 Thank you for your words. I've felt so free and thinking so much clearly. It's also made me realize how thankful I am for the strong & heathy relationships I do have. & I guess we'll both continue to have those targets, can't let their negativity bring us down to their sorry insecurities.
Well wishes to you 🙏
@@Josh_Luna Thank you! And well wishes to you too! Onward and upward. :)
Part of the reason this is scary is because of the lie we are told, that we must be the bigger person and if we do everything “right” the relationship will take care of itself, that not having some specific attachments, like to a parent, means we are the defective ones. You can sense the truth, not tell it and be a scapegoat anyway (narcissists have this weird radar for them), or remain your authentic self, and be a scapegoat. I felt worse abandoning my authentic feelings and responses than being triangulated and attacked. Once you realize that every person’s responses are owned by them and, while it may hurt to have someone unfairly speak poorly of us, that it doesn’t change who we know ourselves to be, you realize that their (flying monkeys) response says a lot more about them than you.
Growing up in a narcissistic family made me TERRIFIED to be a truth-teller.
My family knew that I had some kind of abilities to see things. At times I was praised. At times I was sort of attacked. I hated our church. I hated the minister. Wow was I right. My dad even apologized. He said I don't know how you know these things but I won't question you on religion again. I don't believe that my parents were clinical narcissists. But there definitely was major narcissistic damage in them.
I had a similar situation when I was at Church questioning all of the foolishness going on with the Building Fund. Our church had just cash flowed a brand-new building yet for some reason the request to give more into the building fund increased.
I hated our minister, too. He used to practically scream from the podium, all sweaty and red faced (like Hitler) that we are all SINNERS! And that THE FLESH IS WEAK!!" Every Sunday. I would look over at my mother, who was as pure to me as ivory soap flakes. I'd see her eyes closed, her head hanging down with such a sad look on her face. When I was about ten, I said to her, "There isn't one single bone in your body that sins, I just know it. Why do you look so guilty and sad when he starts carrying on like that?" She said, "Thank you, but I was taught that all ministers are right." I said, "I bet he's screaming about HIMSELF!" Years later, we found out that he'd been carrying on a thirty year long affair with the church secretary! 😂🤪
Truth teller, scapegoat, and lifelong realist. Catholic. The first sacrament is penance, which means confession. I was 6 and had heard people speaking about how unchristian our priest was. He was truly terrible. The first confession is done face to face. I told him I would not confess to him. When asked why I told him that he was not a good Christian. When he said I had to our God couldn’t forgive me, I reminded him that we can all speak to God ourselves and if we ask for forgiveness, he will grant it, so God already knows and has forgiven me. We sat there, at an impasse, as he figured out what I already knew. That he had no option but to give me the sacrament, regardless of my participation, or explain (or risk having me do it for him) why he could not.
Dr they always win. Even when people see them cheating. It’s unbelievable there power of manipulation. I have/had many narcissistic people in my life. I stop talking with / about them and they still talking about me and do their best to poison my life. They can’t stand that I am a strong / positive person. I think it how they get others to believe on them.
I wish I could talk with you in person. Again, thank you so much for investing in this theme . Even though I am strong it’s exhausting to deal with so many narcissistic people… your videos helped me tremendously 💕🌷
I feel the same. It's ridiculous & very unfair & I can't believe how others can't see the obvious signs of a Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde type of personality, it messes with me too. I wish you peace of mind on your journey in life & hoping the best for you!
Thank you!The best for you too!
As much as possible…. go no contact with the world? leave all those narcissists with an empty white noise- NO supply from you …
It is very exhausting.
I was the truth seer, teller caregiver and scapegoat of a vulnerable NARC parent.
I recently went no contact thanks to Dr. Ramani.
I am no longer a puppet on the puppeteer strings as she controlled my CNS and used it to her bidding.
My heart goes out in support to everyone tuning to Dr. Ramani for her wisdom & guidance.
Dr Ramani, I know you don’t read the comments but I pray someone communicates to you what a powerful gift you have.
You have completely changed my understanding of my past and offered me information that has contributed to more healing than any of the many other methods I have tried.
Simply put, you change lives for the better by offering us education and understanding.
Bless you and please keep sharing your gift. ❤
when you are the only one in your life seeing what is wrong, that in itself is a form of alienation/separation wich in turn becomes isolation by default...
Yes, I can relate to that! It is indeed a very lonely place to be, when you are the only one who can see what seems to be so obvious, but others just can't see it. I am isolated and alone, but it is better than trying to play along with their craziness! I am done with that, and if I am alone for the rest of my life, at least I will have peace.
thanks Christine, i'm so glad for you to have got away from them
One thing we're not? COWARDS. People sense I'm okay in my own skin & they *hate* that. Its okay to be different, & recognize your difference will make them fear you. You know who you are, & that's all you need in this lifetime. I keep to myself more & more, use better discernment, & shut my mouth when what I have to say may put me at risk. I don't need to state what I see as obvious. And the times I catch myself holding some slight on a feeling level, I recognize it, reason it out, then get rid of it faster than ever. Thank you, Dr. Ramani. Youre saving lives out here. And a shoutout to all my fellow scapegoats. When & if the Zombie Apocalypse hits, we'll be the ones holding shit together 😅
In my experience, it depends on the setting and circumstances. Most of my truth telling has caused me to receive bad treatment from the narcissists. This bad treatment varies from the narcissist trying to get me fired and destroy my future employability….to narcissistic relatives wanting to get me put away in a mental facility/ spend life on heavy medication.
( my relatives who were the narcissists in question knew nothing about psychology. They were projecting their own lunacy onto me!)
Basically, I have found that narcissists can’t handle hearing truth from truth-seers and truth-tellers. Once the narcissist feels threatened, they will resort to many forms of punishment. In the workplace or social situations….the narcissists will seek to destroy you any way they can. No punishment inflicted by the narcissist ( psychological, financial, social, reputation, material) is too small or too big….to inflict on you.
Over sharing is a vulnerability some say it is your strength as well.
There is certainly something to say for remaining stoic with narcissists
Whether the truthseer and trutheteller will become a scapegoat directly coresponds to the ability of narcissistic parent to change. Since the narcissists have limited ability to change, if any at all, it's very likely that the truthseer will be victimized.
Narcissists can change dramatically when someone with more power enters the room. When police arrive the abuser appears calm while the victim appears hysterical or crazy. Narcissists know what they're doing and will morph into different roles for different people depending on status and potential threat.
@@chriscunningham8807 Yes, they certainly know how to play the people around them, and yes, more status, power and potential threat, they are more careful, when playing their game. Awful people!
Both of my parents (divorced) are 100% narcissistic in their behaviour, and throughout my life, i have always been nearly all people's scapegoat.
Add to that, I'm ASD level 1, ADHD, dyspraxic, and have what used to be called, Sensory Inegration Disorder. All i have done in life is strive to do good and help people, but most people just hurt me instead.
You are not alone. There is good company here.
@@rubberbiscuit99 thank-you ❤
@rubberbiscuit99 it's a struggle to not say what I think. What I mean is, I have developed the ability to say absolutely nothing (trauma created that ability in me), but, if I do say something, it's difficult to not say what I believe to be true.
@@an_anishinaabe_son You are not deceptive, cunning, or manipulative, and it is challenging for you to deal with people who are. I bet you are solid on recognizing patterns though, which is the ability that will allow you to identify these miscreants so you can flush them out of your life. In the meantime, yes, they HATE authenticity and honesty because these ding their core wounds and cause them to lash out. With no connection to self, they cannot be honest or authentic. How dare you shine your light and do what they cannot? I'm going through it right now with someone like this, trying to summon guile to get through it, and it's feckin torture. I have to write out my anger so I don't blow a gasket. They love when we blow a gasket. Oi.
Has anyone else noticed that covert narcissists will often label themselves as the scapegoat?
OMI GOSH YESSSSSSSSS😅😅😅😅😅
In some cases they actually may have been
Depending on which system they are discussing, they very well might have been.
Here`s why I am the truth teller: I was born when most of my siblings were adults, so, as a kid, I hadn`t learned how to lie and, when i said the truth, I was sebsequentely and imediately isolated and cut out of needs, cause I had nothing to offer as validation, could not be flattered in charge for something, just needed things for my development.
isolated and cut out of needs. man do i ever hear this and say u are so not alone and yet fuck.
I was adopted and both siblings (bio children of my parents) were about a decade older. I wonder if that grows us up a bit faster, as far as seeing the world how it is, making us more likely to be truth tellers? I was 6 when I told my priest he wasn’t a good Christian (he wasn’t) because of some things my parents discussed, 8 when I pointed out that the “flu” my mom said my sister had lasted longer than 2 weeks and was likely anorexia (lots of Oprah), and 9 when my mom said my brother wasn’t feeling well and I pointed out that it was likely a hangover. She really didn’t like when I pointed out their failings because they were, by extension, hers.
@@TheBaumcm children initially have no notion about the reasons adults have to hide sruff. When they are with other children who are being raised to be narcissists, they learn how to lie together, there`s a certain balance of power and instrumentalization of the children by the narcissistic parents, alternately. When everybody else is adult, they have more power than the child, so they gaslight that child more easily, as well as isolating them, stonewalling, and treating them silenly, which doesn't leave room for the alternance between proviledge and abuse which forms the narcissitic personaity. Trhth tellers spend much time alone, raising themselves, outside the home, I would disappear for wole afternoons at a pretty young age and nobody would come for me.
This is such a precise description of my "role"
in my family of origin..Also advocating for other (older) siblings. And being and praised & devalued within that system. How confusing for the youngest and only girl. Now as a single mother with the expected "baggage" of experiences, I Thank you Dr Romani for every single post. And your powerful truth telling leadership. 💜
I was the truth see-er as a child and became the truth tell-er as an adult in my narcissistic Asian family system. It is a very lonely and frightening place to be when you speak out against the narcissist’s bullying behaviours. I am trying to village build away from them and heal but the healing journey is hard. I sometimes wonder why I was given this life. 😢
Knowing the truth can be painful. Pain passes then you will feel relieved and free.
I have met so many truth seer/scapegoated people in the intentional communities I have lived and worked in. Something about the accountability required to live in such communities, attract us. We don’t feel safe other places. Also, these are family to us because we know we can’t be loved by our families. It felt so good to be validated in these spaces. I felt so so alone and knew people wouldn’t believe me about the crazy that was my family. Some family have come to see. I thought it would make me feel better, but it didn’t because they then were sad and confused and realized they can’t really help me or my kids. It’s so jacked up. I will be in community for this spring/summer because I have to get away and ground and re focus often. I am so grateful for this.
Being blamed for things that clearly weren’t my fault was a theme of my childhood and teenage years. I was blamed for my mother’s friends not inviting her to events, for the price of things she had promised to get me and most of all for bad things that my golden child sister did and then denied.
I was chastised for the price of my braces and glasses, both essential mind you, any time I “misbehaved” or didn’t conform, as though it kept her from doing something else.
@ 9:30. "The child may see the truth telling as a curse rather than a blessing". How ironic you should say that. Just last night at work a coworker told me that I was a truth teller and I told her that trait has never bode well for me and only given me grief.
Amazon says my book arrives tomorrow 🎉
But concerning the video, I think once you verbalize the truth, you become a target.
I was more of a truth teller with certain members of my family. My uncle and sister’s husband knew I was onto them at an early age. However, I kept quiet and was a truth seer with other family members until I couldn’t take it anymore. Now I am estranged and a scapegoat.
do i ever hear this
I was a scapegoat, a golden child, parentified, truth seer, emotional incest, helper..fixer. I was smack in the middle of my parents..a pawn in their emotional mess...toddler to college. I get the family roles, crazy dynamics. I got though it, but not unscathed.
I read the question and thought, "THIS truth teller could never not become the scapegoat." I was curious to see if you saw a path to people like me not having gotten scapegoated. Honestly, it's comforting hearing that it was likely inevitable.
Fundamental pattern for a narcissist is the distortion of reality to maintain ego and reduce shame and responsibility. Truth destroys that delusion so they will hit you with both barrels.
Yup,@@TheBaumcm, that really feels like my experience. I'm hit with both barrels because I don't participate in the reality distortions.
Honestly, I wonder how many of my fellow autistics end up being the truthtellers (it's really hard for us "to get" the social game of mutually affirming reality distortion) and this is what causes us to be the scapegoats.
Growing up in a dysfunctional family dynamic, much of what Dr. Ramani says here does ring true to me. While I saw that there was something wrong with my family, and I did become incredibly independent, it took many years for me to understand that I could not change that dynamic and it was disappointing. It also did not help me discern away from other narcissistic people that I kept trying to fix or help. At 61 years old, I'm finally coming to an understanding with what had happened in the past but often feel that I was stupid to get involved over and over with narcissistic people. I hope one day, I can stop feeling like that.
Me too 🤗🤗
Hi Ramani,
Thanks for the video. I will add your book to my study project.
I've got a stack of books that I need to read this year about
complex trauma and empaths and sigma males and energy
vampires. I do not enjoy studying. I took 10 years of
university and it was painful. Yes, I'm a truth teller and
a true seer. My siblings are somewhat intuitive. I'm
more intuitive than my siblings. My family members
do not help me to understand myself. My mother
is encouraging me to work as a janitor. I have
separated from my siblings. My sisters are
narcissistic and highly disagreeable. I've
decided to stop smoking pot. Pot is killing
my brain. Brain death is scary. I'm frequently
overwhelmed with painful emotions. I've
decided that the pain doesn't need to stop
me from doing what I need to do. I do not
need to be limited by the pain. I can push
through the pain. I do not have to identity
with the pain as my entire reality. I'm watching
videos by Lauren Sapala and Jay Scott who are
both INFJs and their videos are helping me.
Okay Ramani, thank you for your help.
Talk later.
You describe a point in recovery that is like being on a razor's edge. Your courage will be rewarded with peace, once the grief has been felt and processed. ☮️
Thank you
Being a truth teller, works for me....except in my family system and in some work environments.
I think as I got older that is how I learned what environments weren't good..for me anyway.
I don't tell people what they think, because I don't know. But I do ask a lot of why questions that bring up truths.
Sometimes I bring up observations that will spark rage. My mother asked me one time why I was calling my brother. Why I didn't just believe her when she and my dad were giving me two different stories.
And I said mom, sometimes dad confuses things, but sometimes you just lie. She asked me what's the difference?
She asked me how I knew she lied, and I said because you lie to me about me.
I should have known that would spark a rage and a vendetta, but like I wasn't a kid anymore and I guess I thought I was safe from her abuse.
They have patterns of behavior. They are predictable. It does take some of the sting out, especially when it’s just laughable. I know my mom speaks ill of me to others in my hometown, and has since I was a child. Many who meet me in adulthood are shocked in a good way, by my behavior in person (I’m more like my dad who was generally loved by everyone). It used to bother me that there were people out there who thought I was a terrible person but when I realized that it doesn’t change who I am, it’s less impactful.
Truth teller and (former) scapegoat child in a narcissistic cult family. My family has seen irrefutable proof that my now deceased father was a narcissist abuser, including my mom, who left him after 58 years of marriage and was on the verge of losing her mind from all the years of gaslighting. Despite this, my family is only able to continue with the scapegoating narrative. I had hopes that my family would see the light and become good people who saw the error of their ways but instead they continue to smear and scapegoat. Unfortunately I have had to come to the conclusion that these people are damaged and crooked - the only option moving forward is "no contact".
man do i ever feel this. as in i had also hoped when my gma died that we could do things differently and yet stayed the same. and no contact them being on the list them planning for them to be permantly gone, and also the shock of them turning on me on a dime cus i couldnt keep quiet anymore. as i said to uncle i am not payed enough for this bull shit.
It is the hardest when it is people who are supposed to love you unconditionally. Thank goodness I still have truth seeing abilities because it allows me to see that the fault is theirs. Still hurts like the dickens, especially as the people who understood are no longer with me but I know that they saw me for who I was. Take comfort in the people who see you the way you see yourself, flaws and all, and recognize that the others are hurt people who might never be able to do better and that it’s okay to not subject yourself to them.
Camera quality and production keeps getting better. Thanks for all you do Dr. R!
Sound as well, tnx team Ramani 👍
In the narcissistic family there is no way you can be the truth teller without becoming the scapegoat. It’s not possible.
I ordered the hard cover of your book. I want to ensure its a staple in my family. God bless you. ❤❤
Truth seer/tellers are the coolest people on the earth❤😊
A love confession from not the one😂
I was a truth see-er but not teller. I didn't become a truth teller until I understood about narcissism, about 3 years ago. Now I have trouble NOT telling my siblings. In fact I think I told all of my siblings but one. They had already made the discovery. It boggles my mind that some of my siblings like their rose colored glasses. Some have holes in them, where they can almost see the truth but they still wear the glasses.
I have a closer relationship with some of my siblings because of what we know.
I am very glad to have this knowledge but it came at a cost.
You can either be ignorant, or you can have the truth.
Thanks for all of your videos, Dr Ramani!!!
People retain their rose-coloured glasses until they too suffer abuse, exploitation, neglect, undue criticism and blame for someone else's mistake. The lens soon cracks.
@@chriscunningham8807 Thanks 😊
It can be frustrating waiting and watching
But I am learning to be still and that is hard 😂
Well, I'm aspiring to in my current narcissistic system (workplace). Thank God it's just a temporary contact. So messed up. They are the self proclaimed nicest team in the company. The mindfuck!
One different dynamic I observed in my family: I have parent and grand parents who had narcissistic traits even though in milder part of the spectrum. With me being a truth teller they always felt defeated as in they couldn't break through me. And I am proud to have always called out their BS and not let them affect me more (thanks to my other thoughtful parent). But they truly felt defeated and preferred other children to me. It did hurt me a lot but thankful to have always seen the truth and stood by it. I think my other loving and empathetic parent gave me the strength and kept me sane.
Thank you very much for this very kind and considerate video. It's very clear and makes so much sense. 🙏❣️🤗
Maybe this is weird, but I was, at least to some extent, the truth seer, even though I was a golden child and my brother was a scapegoat. I got golden child bragging, and to some extent golden child treatment, but only when I was giving my father a chance to live his life through me, and only when it didn't trigger him to compete. The rest of the time, abuse.
I knew that what he did to my brother was wrong, but I didn't have the words and I would never have said anything. That's how you can be the truth seer and the golden child both -- I had one hell of a poker face and I wasn't stupid enough to open my mouth.
I have the words now, and last year I was able to tell my brother that I had seen the way our father treated him and known it was wrong, but didn't have the words. Now I have the words, and I wanted him to know I saw it, and it was wrong. I gave him some examples.
He's not ready to accept that he was abused, and I didn't use the word, but I hope it will help him to heal, even if it's only a little.
Golden child can vary but usually they will have a specific standard scapegoat, which switches to others, like you said. Perfect example. My brother passed when he was 37. Both adopted, we were about a month apart and had never celebrated major birthdays alone. When I turned 40, I wanted to do something “good” so I signed up for St Baldrick’s and raised some money by shaving my head, donating my hair (my brother used to do it every summer for ease of care and coolness). My mother, when I told her, really didn’t like the idea and said I shouldn’t do it. However, once she saw it on FB (fundraising) and saw positive support, she flipped and made it seem publicly like she was in full support. Now that my dear dad and brother have passed, it’s just my mom, and her bio children left (along with their kids). I have no need to visit, as I can text and check in with everyone separately, so I can keep her civil by basically enforcing an “act a fool, have no participation in my life” policy.
I have 💯 become the scapegoat and treated horrifically for seeing and finally speaking truths, it’s been so hard on me. So tired of it all. Not worth my time anymore. Focusing on my well being. ❤ Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Dr. Ramani, you have been a constant trickle of water in a baron land: Thank you!
OH MY! This video was so validating! I have never been seen so clearly in my entire life! This is me! Truth teller turned scapegoat! Thank you so very much Dr. Ramani ❤ I feel like the light just got switched on in my life! I’m finally breathing deeply! I’m not crazy 😢
Jay Reid vids on scapegoat also might be helpful
@@TejubescDM Thank you! I'll check them out!
The light switches on when you leave a toxic place. Nothing worse than groping in the dark for a light switch when the fuse has blown.
You just described my life. I have become a good listener (gray rock). It’s safe! I I have two safe connections.
My stepmother would blame me when my younger 1/2 brothers misbehaved. According to her they were perfect little angels when I wasn't there and only when I visited, every other weekend, did they act out.
Fast foward to adulthood and I'm the only fully functional adult out of all my parents children. My younger brothers still live at home with thier mother into thier 40s.
Adopted and my mother would act out when I pointed out the mistakes her bio children made as a kid, she never directly blamed me for what they did but for poking holes in the lies she used to cover them up. “Your sister has a really bad flu”. She’s been sick for a month. Not the flu, anorexia. “Your underage brother isn’t feeling well” he has a hangover. “Your niece was born premature” She was born exactly on her due date and her parents weren’t married when she was conceived (not a big deal due to other factors but mom). After each there would be some retaliation. It was better when my dad was around because he’d call her out, try to protect me from the crazy, and he appreciated truth. She tries to gaslight me even now because it shames her by extension.
@@TheBaumcm sounds like your father is an enabler. Just saying.
Being a truth-seer got me fired from my last job. It also got me blackballed at my old church. As well, it made my wife cold and indifferent in our marriage. Now, I follow law # 1 that I saw in a book- never outshine the 'master'.
The mail that sticks out will be hammered down. We’ll go ahead and stick out but remember that their criticism is not valid. Respect yourself. Do honest positive self talk.
The naked emperor looks exquisite and imperious. Nothing like group psychosis to keep the head on your body.
Thank you so much for everything you do Dr. Ramani. Your content has helped me SO greatly during these last few months of post narc healing ❤. I just wanted to say that you look really pretty today and I love the bright pink on you Girrrl 💅 😚
Dr. Ramani you are such an inspiring scientist for understanding babies developing brains thank you!!!!!
Personally as a truth teller and a truth seer my entire life I can honestly say there is no way to do either one without becoming the scapegoat. However there are ways to guard against it and it really depends on the type of narcissist and flying monkeys they have around them. Sometimes silence is good, silence leaves them confused and often gives them the spotlight, which is what they want. This then allows you to observe what type of image they are trying to project to you and others and you can act how you see fit accordingly. Eventually though they'll scapegoat you just for being the quite one because it's not like you'll defend yourself right? Now that you have all of this info one them comes faze 2. The snarkyness or shit talking as I like to call it. Depending on the type of narcissist you're dealing with you might have a lot or little experience with this. The part where a lot of empathic people fail is that they don't realize that they are defending themselves and will see themselves as narcissist when they get their hands dirty. The narcissist will use that against if you let them. If you can articulate yourself well enough you can expose this to the flying monkeys and they will side you. They probably have gone through something similar. This will make the narcissist go insane and maybe even you a little but you will win. They survive like that for long and people won't want to be around that. You know you've when they try to hurt you in secret and not make a huge scene. They made scenes before to make you look bad now they can't. Now all they can do is try to make it seem like you're no better which won't work if you are.
Truth-teller with snark. Dr. Ramani, you have absolutely nailed me. Never in my life have I seen this explained so well, (or at all). Thank you for this insight.
I think if you're a truth-teller or truth-seer in a situation where you could be a scapegoat, you have to realize that being that scapegoat is NOT NECESSARILY an identity you have to be attached to. Just my thoughts. Then the question arises which is: how to get into that space where you don't identify. It's very easy to say to not identify and just meditate it away or something like that. But this is ongoing work because I think these states that are internalized like for example being a scapegoat, are fairly deeply embedded. "Meanwhile, back at the ranch -- " ☮️💟🤨 Thanks for checking out my non- expertise. The book sounds like a great read!!!
I agree that it’s simply a label, but unfortunately, since these systems do not change, it becomes really easy to fall back into patterns of behavior (one reason why addicts have so much trouble when they return from rehab), for example when going home for holidays. The truth teller is the identity. The scapegoat is a behavioral result in narcissistic systems
Interesting point. Roles and positions shift depending on who is pulling the strings. New boss and a restructuring of workers. Dictator deposed and a new leader brings positive change or many narcissists vie for the leading position. Often the same sick system is formed again with many victims being scapegoated for daring to challenge the leaders until the group normalises unfair and abnormal conduct.
I think that it is a thing of setting up the proper boundaries. My husband is a truth teller! You always can choose to not take the bait. If the narcissist wants you to take their side against someone else, you can refuse to take sides, period. If they ask you why, then you can tell them that in a shouting match, there ARE no winners. Maybe then, you can help someone to shift their perspective a little bit! ...I have found in my own life that putting up the proper boundaries not only helps you to grow, and change for the better, but if someone has known you over time, it might help others to discover a different way of being...
Thank you for making this video! Take care. Susan
My ex husband definitely was the scapegoat in his family growing up. He has these very issues from seeing his parents issues as well as being treat badly specifically by his father. He knew this behavior was wrong and yet he continued the cycle and was verbally, mentally, emotionally and physically abusive towards me. He learned this narcissistic behavior which cause our marriage to fail.
Hia Dr Ramani 💕yes I am the truth teller and see everything!
I remain silent to keep my distance from toxic abusers.🙏❤️
There were two truth seers in my family of origin. I became the scapegoat. My younger step brother became what I call the alternate, most would call him the invisible child. My older step brother was the golden child. If all three of us kids were around the oldest was the golden child, I was the scapegoat, the youngest was invisible. If there were only two kids around there was always a golden child and a scapegoat. If it was the oldest son(golden child) and the youngest son, the youngest became the scapegoat. If it was me(scapegoat) and the youngest son, the youngest became the golden child. If the youngest wanted attention or validation he would just throw me(scapegoat) under the bus. As bad as it was being the scapegoat I am glad I wasn't the alternate. I went no contact eleven years ago. The youngest became the scapegoat and also went no contact at some point in time. Now the golden child has to deal with his narcissistic mother(my evil step monster). The golden child still doesn't get it, he is starting to see how abusive she is, but he still doesn't get it.
Wait till she runs out of human punching bags and turns on the golden child as well then claims to be the victim. Some people are too damaged and abusive to be able to interact healthily and safely with other people. Sad but true. The problem with toxic families is the sense of obligation to accept and tolerate abuse or risk being rejected and ostracised for complaining about abnormal and abusive treatment.
I wept after going through comments here. My heart breaks for those who cherish and stand by truth.
In a comment I made here, please don’t ever let your light dim and please be selective with whom you share pearls with, because the swine will not hesitate to turn on and trample you! 🙏
That’s why we sit quietly and observe who is worthy of our truth!
I have this role in the family I married into. My mother-in-law is in late stage dementia and her first in-home caregiver was a bad fit (skipping days, trying to get my MIL to eat the way the caregiver wanted, pushing supplements, etc.). I asked, Are you happy with her? They said no. I said, tell her what you want. If she won't bend, get someone new. Right? When my FIL fired the caregiver, I got a barrage of unhinged texts from the former caregiver that I was responsible. FIL told her that.
No you cant challenge them as a child , even an adolescent. And they cant understand that you know somethings wrong. But you will be protected by authentic affection which will disguise you protect you give you patience. And you ll be protected by incomplete understanding as long as you have an exit plan , a job and moving out at 18 ,or going away to school a LONG way off prefereably taking something your parents lack interest in. Much much later maybe 50 60 years later you might understand the whole story, at 70 it will hurt. If you fully understood at say 14 it would have broken you. But its a catastrophe for a kid.
I listen to this and I feel anxiety in me, in my stomach. This describes my experience so well.
I started seeing it at age 13, asking very pointed questions of my mother. This was not well received. I continued to play her game to stay safe but I continued to see. I also used sarcasm to communicate with my mother bc she found this passive aggressive communication style amusing. This is how she communicated. My younger sister was the scapegoat bc she was more overtly resistant and had a closer relationship with our empathic father. I was the fixer and I took up the role of protecting my sister.
As the truth seer in my situation, the narcissist stopped using me as a scapegoat once they saw me as a threat. I wasn't afraid to tell others about their behavior, and I'd call them out in the moment. I'd essentially hold a mirror up to their behavior and they hated what they saw. They would usually become violent towards me when I did this, but once I was big enough to fight back and was clearly stronger, they never touched me again and turned their sights onto a new scapegoat. I'd still call out their behavior. Now they are on their best behavior when I'm around. The next scapegoat, my little brother, had it much worse than me and I still feel that guilt. When I lived with them, I would try to distract the narcissist when they lashed out at my brother. I left home when I became an adult and have felt that guilt ever since.
That was me in childhood and later in life, like in my marriage. It was like someone branded "Scapegoat" across my forehead for life. People still try to get to me, but these days, for the most part, I've learned how to bob and weave!
What a great question! Dr. Ramani, do you think birth order plays a part in many of these "roles" many of us took on as children in our families of origin? I realize there are a lot of dynamics at play with birth order and it can't simply be applied across the board (e.g. youngest child being born with much, much older siblings can be more like an only child or oldest child.). I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you♥
Like Dr.Ramani was present at my childhood. Thank you.
Thankfully I was a lost child growing up. I moved away in my early 20s so I was able to keep my distance. I may be the scapegoat as an adult but I'm NC so it doesn't matter. I'm free from that circus.
You’ve managed to upload videos almost incessantly for the several years I’ve been subbed to you Dr. That is quite a feat!!! Thank you so much for all you do in your quest to help people who are victimized by narcissists! ❤
5:00 "an easy target like a child" yes I was & have been severely abused since birth ive only been safe from predators (not on the net I have daily murder threats & criminal hacking on the net & criminal hacking of all my work & emails & irl crimes committed by strangers on the net stalking me in public irl) for almost 4 years for the first time in my whole entire life
3:40 "fixers" yes as you know babysitters, servants, caretakers, delivery boys, mail women, etc, 'therapists' we do all the listening & 0 speaking
All of these people talk and are programmed and hopefully paid to serve other people's needs. Good servants know what the master wants or needs before he makes the request. Seems that some people were programmed to service the needs of others especially if assigned that role in childhood.
This is painful to hear, which probably means it's important for my healing so thank you
6:00 "they break the truth seeking child down" yes they break the law to do that
If in triangle (drama) with two narcissist parents, yes. Because golden child and only real audience - and both try to make me their ally in putting the other parent down.
I'm not blaimed of anything just tried to unalive and every day told to kill myself by my narc father. I have no idea what this role is in dr Ramani system. And does it matter? There must be so many weird situations and dynamics with the narcissits, depending of how psychopatic they are, how many people, who's lying the most, who has most social anf economic power, other health and mental health issues
I'm still a truth teller but I am not the scapegoat anymore, now I'm old and when they try making me the butt of the joke or try any of their other crap I call them out on the spot and if they don't like it here i am. A 50 years of abuse it made me a mess around and find out kinda person
The list of scapegoating tactics went on and on and on and my story ticks all the boxes. The nicknames, the silent treatment, not being taken to the dentist or doctor, not being driven to a sports game, my gift money being handed to my sisters, my 18 years old sister puching 14 year old me in the face, and me getting SCREAMED at that I was WORTHLESS SCUM for pushing her back. The same sister assaulting me with a sauce pan at 23 when I was 19, chasing me out of the house where I still lived.
Sorry to hear that you were treated so badly by damaged and dangerous people. This is not normal or healthy for anyone to endure or accept.
I once suggested that my father’s anger at me was related to his mother and he slapped me very hard across my face. I was 12 and my mother had just divorced him. Later I realized he was projecting his feelings about that perceived abandonment as well as his mother. He definitely took out his self loathing on my brother who never really saw my father’s immaturity and abuse.
just stay firm,take positive action and don't bend to false narratives,if that means no contact,then so be it,let the narcissists learn their lesson while we learn ours.THAT'S HOW YOU LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD and helps keep you calm,safe,sane,healthy and stable,if narcissists want to try control everything,let them know it's not going to happen.
,cheers,sorry,i don't use telegram,all the best and good luck.
Truth teller imo is anyone who exposes the narcissist, because they smear anyone who knows.
I used to be the golden child growing up with a narcissistic father and an enabling/silent mother. I have many siblings, but I know that I was treated the best because I was the oldest and had more in common with my father. I was brainwashed to believe that his ways were the only way. After I moved out, I got into a toxic relationship, but then went to therapy and dumped him. AFTER THAT, I published a book of poetry regarding narcissistic relationships, abuse, and other emotional topics. My father thinks I'm out to get him, and thinks that my truth, my own reality is "delusional"--which hits deep because I was almost diagnosed with bipolar. I genuinely want to be a truth teller, because I feel guilty for the way my sisters were treated when we were kids. How can I maintain relationships with family members who live with my father without getting too close to him? I ruminate on this question daily...
So True! This is what exactly happened to me!
UNO, when the scapegoat 👀 it, walks away to fend for then selves then the unit can stay together, grow into who they arrived here to be. We understand learnt behavior well, a long the journey we sniff through the BS and walk away. Being a Truth Teller is only helpful to the world around us when we walk our talk, it's sexy to Boot✌️❤️🌳💯 #thankyouall #enjoythejourney
I am a truth teller and my mom's scapegoat. I have been so hurt and confused my entire life and nothing made sense until I was enlightened by people like Dr. Ramani. My book is scheduled to arrive today and I cannot wait to read it!
👍🌹💖 your explanations..However, I have witnessed some similar cases as you had described..However, the ending results wasn't wasted my times of following up..Actually it was Very Rewarding for me to see that the Scapegoats or Truth Seers were actually NOT as dumbfounded as I thought..🤔🤔 I questioned of YYY &Y didn't you fight back??..The answer was: They will all pay dearly on their redemption day's whether it is NOW OR LATER ON as the Laws of Karma R NEVER WRONG as same as the Laws of Gravitational Forces as long as one is still on Earth Planet with physical forms..However, the Laws of Karma has no boundaries of times or whatever forms ones are in..Period..
This video described my whole life with my parents and relationships. I am so saddened to know that we as a type will always be attacked and scapegoated. I hope all reading these comments find solace in that we are not alone.
I really appreciate your videos. Thank you.
I don’t think it’s possible to not be a scapegoat if the narcissistic relationship is parents.
I want to know, How do I break free, I've alreadu lost part of my empathy because of this situation, I don't want this "gift" everyone takes advantage of me on one way or another, how do I shut it down?
I went through that. It was *brutal*. It's also what makes you human; they really do win if you kill it.
What you can do is not let your heart rule your head. There are times people need to feel the pain and expend effort to grow up. Don't deprive them of it. Leaving a person to remain a child forever is cruel.
There are other times they need a kind word or a confidante. That's awesome. But not at the expense of your own needs. And definitely not if it leads to disrespectful behaviour or entitlement.
Be compassionate towards yourself as much as the next person. You'll find a balance, and what works for you. I'm oversimplifying. Just a starting idea.
Do what works for you. I hope this helps. 😊
So at 63, a truth teller/seeker, I find that most people don't want to hear the truth. I just wait until I'm asked which is rare. I then tell the truth as gently as I can. What do we say at other times? I'm not going to lie. So I mostly talk about the weather etc and just listen.
This is valuable informative! I've taken notes. Thank you 🌹
I'm the truthteller and can tell you I mix with my "family" like oil and water, we don't talk, hang out or really have anything to do with each other's lives in any way, shape form or fashion. I personally wish it was different. I pray for unity and Jesus says there is unity up here. I've tried to bring stuff to the surface and YOU CANNOT FIX IT folks. Give the paperwork to Jesus and go on with your lives. If you're reading this comment; you have a book written about you in Heaven, this book is your purpose here on Earth, go do your book and let nothing stop you. I love you.
I hope to buy your book. I was raised in family of origin. I always knew. I was the scapegoat for a lot of years. Now the truth teller truth see-er