Interesting to see the proper conventional choices as well as some other cool ideas, my go to is the Otomo since I very much enjoyed playing them in Total War Shogun 2.
It's funny you mention Hosokawa as the 'big boy' clan. The Hosokawa and Yamana clans were the original top contenders for the Shogunate at the start of the Sengoku Jidai and had a fierce rivalry. Paradox never ceases to amaze me with it's historical accuracy in miniscule parts of the world.
Tokugawa is also really good, you start with +10 infantry combat ability and -10 ae impact, later you get +10% morale, +5% discipline and finish with -10 dev cost reduction. IMO Tokugawa is one of the best japanese tags.
Indeed they are good but in my opinion they sat in a weird twighlight zone of ‘not obscure enough for the video but too well known for being strong’ so I skipped them
Man I though Shimazu was one of the main nations people use to unify Japan, they are mine together with Oda. They have a core and are in a corner on a Island giving you some safety especially once you unify the island and move on. They have pretty good military ideas with 10% Inf CA, 10% Moral, 1 Army Tradition, 5% Discipline, 15% Manpower revovery and 10% Land fire damage. The ideas were really good for keeping when forming Japan.
True, also if you are willing to wait out the unification (either for flavor or for more war powerpoint farming) shimazu can go colonial early, by colonizing first one taiwanese province and then the archipelago animist one province minors in spice islands nom, nom Or even eventually progress into early colonial subject in australia, can't remember exactly but either your fourth or fifth colonial province can be in australia, annex the natives and since by then you probably united Japan, move onto colonizing America And ofcourse CLOVES
btw Ternate is a colonial hidden gem. It has 2 cloves provinces and 4 with high chances of spawning it so a lot of money. Also it has some colonial missions and it pretty easy to reach south America
@@kagtkalem7115 I mean technically Oda only unified half of Japan, before he was betrayed and killed. Toyotomi did unify it BUT it was still kinda unstable, and because of his peasant origins was not given the supreme ruler title Shogun by the Emperor. Tokugawa is the only one that cemented Japan to be one again and was given the title of Shogun by the emperor, hence finally ending Sengoku Jidai and ushering hundreds of years of peace. So Tokugawa is the one that really unified Japan.
@@kagtkalem7115 Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and Tokugawa Ieyasu are referred to as the Three Unifers of Sengoku Japan. The Tokugawa shogunate offcially ended the Sengoku and ushered in the Edo period. So yes, they did unify Japan.
@@kagtkalem7115 If someone with a political power base which is external to the rulers at the start of a civil war can overthrow the ruling clique then the nation isn't unified, kinda by definition no? I'm not objecting to calling Nobunaga or Toyotomi unifiers of Japan, but within the confines of EUIV I stand by the pithy idea that with an EUIV 1444 start date Tokugawa are the nation that can most accurately claim nation that 'formed Japan' in EUIV parlance.
Small suggestion actually since you reminded me of it through So, I wanted to highlight Palembang since I think they're even more underrated for a memey naval focused build as Palembang -> Pirate Republic Malaya is an absolute monster in terms of combat and money as they get the ability to raid, raze, and colonize the spice islands while also having naval ideas that rival the British
Shimazu has absolutely insane military focused ideas, I would recommend if you want to play a Japan game where your army can easily rival that of the ottomans in strength
Historical advisors tier list, with how useful they are( discount and if that discount even matters), and the significance of their historical contribution. Lemoncake must suffer
Otomo is kinda underrated, they have really good artillery combat ability, spy network for sieging forts, wanna bulldoze forts Uesugi is underrated as well, while Oda and Shimazu are overall better, Uesugi on discipline can become "Japanese Prussia"
tbh the shogun autonomy button really makes it miserable to play in japan, even rushing to unite it you end up with crazy high autonomy and the sepuku button is really annoying
If you want to do a naval build but remain shogun/don't want to be a pirate republic, Kono also has very good naval ideas ( 5% galley combat more, notably). Especially if using japan's MT to go navy focus- you can use your Marines Samurai for pretty much your entire infantry FL, filling your frontline with sailors, leaving your manpower for cannons and great project rushes. Sadly, there is no way to pirate shogun, as you'd be able to have dozens of pirate republics under you via the gov reform from pirate republic.
Shimazu are also great pick, nice safe starting position, with clear way of expansion and superb trade access, you also get +1 honour which nice bonus if you convert to christianity, and you can get 2 nanban trade ports very quickly. Most importantly S tier green color... oh wait wrong game, sure they are fine in eu4 too, but the C tier color is holding them back.
what privileges do you think are best for Florence if you plan on going protestant? (i know that lands for the church is a decent reform to chose regardless of the choice because you get more out of being catholic while you are catholic and get refunded when you convert. i know that getting all 3 point privileges is good regardless of what you do, but there aren't a ton of privileges that make sense to chose over other options if you plan this way), for the nobility i have been going with supremacy levies and the free general for the clergy i have been going with oversight sanctuary (free papal points are free papal points) and religious diplomats and for the burghers i usually go with 1% loans patronage and free enterprise (though i also get the monarch points) but i have tried the options that make all advisors less expensive (stab cost from this doesn't feel worthwhile as a monarchy unless you are catholic and intend to stay that way, but you do end up saving a decent amount of money) also it seems what Italy itself gets from winds of change makes it more powerful than what you could get from starting as Milan in 1.36.2 (that is, unless you at some point swap to the current update without problems occurring)
I mean you won't like my answer, but I basically run all them all the time, and then in 1550 I hit the breaks on the max, and full send revoke all of them trying to get crownland as high as possible for 1600s for abs. Until abs happens though, you want to press the free money button aka sell crownland, run all the privileges, and deal with the high autonomy by constantly reducing it as much as possible
@@LemonCake101 fair enough. everyone has there own playstyles. i guess a better way to ask is what privileges are more worth the slot in this given situation (also by going protestant you can make religious diplomats lower influence by 5 and effectively have no penalty to absolutism (which makes it cost effective to keep) and Italy in winds of change can make it give 5 absolutism via mission (in the wording it says it removes the penalty to absolutism, but going protestant/reformed allows it to give 5 absolutism under these conditions), which makes it more worthwhile). the free general is worth considering in basicly any game (if nothing else than to save early mil points), stuff like that
i just tried my luck to see if i could get the not just pizza achievement, this time i actually got it (had to develop the last bit of the way because i was basicly hugboxed, it helped that after a war with Aragon i was only around 20 ish off from being a great power) it was definitely best that i embraced that it was not going be continued (Siena was made a free city. Austria allied Aragon day 1. the ottomans got to Byzantium before i even had the opportunity to do anything in Greece, and i was reaching my loan limit faster than i would have liked)
How could you leave out Shimazu??? Literally the strongest military ideas and overall very good- also their position to the south lets them have the ocean to their backs and cut off their island with ships if they have them, being at the very bottom of Japan also makes colonial range better if you decide on doing that.
Uesugi ist in my opinion the best nation for a super fast Japan unification. Yes, their national ideas suck but they have twice the development of all its 8 starting neighbors.
I picked Amago as one of my first nations ever to force myself to learn. Don't do that. It was hell and took several tries to be able to recover from debt with powerful neighbors and no good heirs of age after you're forced to sudoku. My choices, other than Oda or Shimazu, would be Date or for an easy start north Uesugi.
Before recent rework I united Japan several times, but quickly abandoned campaign since there's nothing much to do, besides being gremlin by blockading everyone. Is it worth giving full playthrough a go now?
I wish the buffs for the naval parts of the Japan mission tree were better. The land options buff your samurai special units to infinity, but the naval choice just buffs your marines??? It's weird. If they replaced it with morale of navies or damage off owned coast, naval japan would be up there with Indonesia & GBR as the best naval nations in the game. Japan deserves it
@LemonCake101 But but but 😥 Watching you doing it is way funnier ! Also I don't really play this game anymore, I'm just sticking to my beloved youtube creators :3
@@LemonCake101 And risk to sink again in this timeless rabbit hole when I start a new game. Then forget to check the time, and SHIT it's 3am and I have to go to work "tomorrow" ... Well it's still tempting ngl
Started as a meme for a ‘Chad ruler’ modifier stack but because yt works the way it does a face on a video makes more people click, so I kept doing it, you kept clicking and it’s like my style now
Yes, I do think So is underrated, go complain here: discord.gg/pb5b33YTpB
I colonized and formed Australia as So
Not as underrated as Libertatia (of the event pirates anyway. Since anyone can hoist the black flag, if they so chooses ;) )
it's not underrated, it's just so-so
Honestly Palembang has always been the big pirate tag in my mind
Another very underrated pirate to be clear too
eu4 country color tier list when?
Seriously though that’s a good idea
mong kawng is the best because it's the only black map color
Interesting to see the proper conventional choices as well as some other cool ideas, my go to is the Otomo since I very much enjoyed playing them in Total War Shogun 2.
The Shogun 2 TW series certainly gave people a lot of favorites :)
Day 7 of asking lemon for an anbennar race tierlist(also lemon is very tyrannical in his discord and locked a whole channel out of paranoia)
Paranoia??? Nah I was just following orders. Now I did issue those orders, but still!
@@LemonCake101what channel was that
@@Speedster___ shitposting, I posted a meme about drunk drivers and he locked the channel
A - Dwarves, Undead
B - Harimari
C - Elves
D - Everyone Else
F - Goblins
@@tsaralexis9459smh can't believe lemon is a shill for big water, doesn't he know the majority of accidents are caused by sober drivers?
It's funny you mention Hosokawa as the 'big boy' clan. The Hosokawa and Yamana clans were the original top contenders for the Shogunate at the start of the Sengoku Jidai and had a fierce rivalry. Paradox never ceases to amaze me with it's historical accuracy in miniscule parts of the world.
"miniscule parts of the world"
>japan
Tokugawa is also really good, you start with +10 infantry combat ability and -10 ae impact, later you get +10% morale, +5% discipline and finish with -10 dev cost reduction. IMO Tokugawa is one of the best japanese tags.
Indeed they are good but in my opinion they sat in a weird twighlight zone of ‘not obscure enough for the video but too well known for being strong’ so I skipped them
@@LemonCake101 The winner of the Sengoku Jidai MP would disapprove
What the heeelll +2.72% discipline?
@@marazali1816 Bro give my braincell back.
@@marazali1816edited it
Most unconventional Japanese unification run: Ryukyu
Also pretty good at a world unification I heard ;)
Most unconventional one is probably Korea. Tallest Japan.
pirate republic japan as SO was one my favorite runs I've ever done I highly recommend it
Man I though Shimazu was one of the main nations people use to unify Japan, they are mine together with Oda. They have a core and are in a corner on a Island giving you some safety especially once you unify the island and move on.
They have pretty good military ideas with 10% Inf CA, 10% Moral, 1 Army Tradition, 5% Discipline, 15% Manpower revovery and 10% Land fire damage.
The ideas were really good for keeping when forming Japan.
Another decent choice indeed!
True, also if you are willing to wait out the unification (either for flavor or for more war powerpoint farming) shimazu can go colonial early, by colonizing first one taiwanese province and then the archipelago
animist one province minors in spice islands nom, nom
Or even eventually progress into early colonial subject in australia, can't remember exactly but either your fourth or fifth colonial province can be in australia, annex the natives and since by then you probably united Japan, move onto colonizing America
And ofcourse CLOVES
Gotta go pirates. Always go pirates!
there's also a theocracy and a theocratic republic option, you can also take over China to become a new emperor of China
Otomo to Jerusalem seems like a good Shogun 2 inspired meme campaign, but expanding from the southern island to the mainland is painful.
Everyone knows that the best Japanese tag is majahapit
btw Ternate is a colonial hidden gem. It has 2 cloves provinces and 4 with high chances of spawning it so a lot of money. Also it has some colonial missions and it pretty easy to reach south America
I feel like even Florry made a video on it though (like actual dedicated video not a stream) so it’s quite well known though
@LemonCake101 okay WELL-OBSERVATED GEM
@@romanreipashi1158 ok that's quite funny I am going to steal that joke for a video at some point and not give you credit XD
Tokugawa, whilst a relatively boring dynamo to play is HISTORICALLY ACCURATE for unifying Japan.
Tokugawa didn't unified Japan. Oda and later Toyotomi did.
@@kagtkalem7115 I mean technically Oda only unified half of Japan, before he was betrayed and killed. Toyotomi did unify it BUT it was still kinda unstable, and because of his peasant origins was not given the supreme ruler title Shogun by the Emperor. Tokugawa is the only one that cemented Japan to be one again and was given the title of Shogun by the emperor, hence finally ending Sengoku Jidai and ushering hundreds of years of peace. So Tokugawa is the one that really unified Japan.
@@kagtkalem7115 Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and Tokugawa Ieyasu are referred to as the Three Unifers of Sengoku Japan. The Tokugawa shogunate offcially ended the Sengoku and ushered in the Edo period. So yes, they did unify Japan.
@alaynakoman9420 When Tokugawa wrested control, Japan was already unified. Sekihagara happened after Sengoku Jidai.
@@kagtkalem7115 If someone with a political power base which is external to the rulers at the start of a civil war can overthrow the ruling clique then the nation isn't unified, kinda by definition no?
I'm not objecting to calling Nobunaga or Toyotomi unifiers of Japan, but within the confines of EUIV I stand by the pithy idea that with an EUIV 1444 start date Tokugawa are the nation that can most accurately claim nation that 'formed Japan' in EUIV parlance.
I do really like the videos where you come up with funny campaign ideas
Thanks :)
Love your videos Lemon! Rock on
Thanks :)
Small suggestion actually since you reminded me of it through So, I wanted to highlight Palembang since I think they're even more underrated for a memey naval focused build as Palembang -> Pirate Republic Malaya is an absolute monster in terms of combat and money as they get the ability to raid, raze, and colonize the spice islands while also having naval ideas that rival the British
Shimazu has absolutely insane military focused ideas, I would recommend if you want to play a Japan game where your army can easily rival that of the ottomans in strength
Historical advisors tier list, with how useful they are( discount and if that discount even matters), and the significance of their historical contribution. Lemoncake must suffer
So is So underrated
Otomo is kinda underrated, they have really good artillery combat ability, spy network for sieging forts, wanna bulldoze forts
Uesugi is underrated as well, while Oda and Shimazu are overall better, Uesugi on discipline can become "Japanese Prussia"
4) Tall colonial overlord Ainu: Dev your starting island to the sky while controlling an overseas empire in the new world & australia.
tbh the shogun autonomy button really makes it miserable to play in japan, even rushing to unite it you end up with crazy high autonomy
and the sepuku button is really annoying
If you want to do a naval build but remain shogun/don't want to be a pirate republic, Kono also has very good naval ideas ( 5% galley combat more, notably). Especially if using japan's MT to go navy focus- you can use your Marines Samurai for pretty much your entire infantry FL, filling your frontline with sailors, leaving your manpower for cannons and great project rushes.
Sadly, there is no way to pirate shogun, as you'd be able to have dozens of pirate republics under you via the gov reform from pirate republic.
Havent played in Japan region in ages, but favorite Japanese minor is Shimazu, i think they have one of best ideas in Japan
Mooooom! Lemon is turning into a weeb!
P.S. Not that I have anything against it...
dw I am passionately anti weeb :)
Shimazu are also great pick, nice safe starting position, with clear way of expansion and superb trade access, you also get +1 honour which nice bonus if you convert to christianity, and you can get 2 nanban trade ports very quickly. Most importantly S tier green color... oh wait wrong game, sure they are fine in eu4 too, but the C tier color is holding them back.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks :)
as a shimazu enjoyer these are good options
I am interested in the most challenging daimyo start, and I wonder which one is ideal for this goal. Probably, Kikuchi?
can we get a top 3 stateless society nations list?
this is cool but I have and always will default to shizumasu for japan runs because i love a pretty purple japan :3
So, you wouldn't say So is so so?
So is so underrated :)
You're so clever.
what privileges do you think are best for Florence if you plan on going protestant? (i know that lands for the church is a decent reform to chose regardless of the choice because you get more out of being catholic while you are catholic and get refunded when you convert. i know that getting all 3 point privileges is good regardless of what you do, but there aren't a ton of privileges that make sense to chose over other options if you plan this way), for the nobility i have been going with supremacy levies and the free general for the clergy i have been going with oversight sanctuary (free papal points are free papal points) and religious diplomats and for the burghers i usually go with 1% loans patronage and free enterprise (though i also get the monarch points) but i have tried the options that make all advisors less expensive (stab cost from this doesn't feel worthwhile as a monarchy unless you are catholic and intend to stay that way, but you do end up saving a decent amount of money) also it seems what Italy itself gets from winds of change makes it more powerful than what you could get from starting as Milan in 1.36.2 (that is, unless you at some point swap to the current update without problems occurring)
I mean you won't like my answer, but I basically run all them all the time, and then in 1550 I hit the breaks on the max, and full send revoke all of them trying to get crownland as high as possible for 1600s for abs. Until abs happens though, you want to press the free money button aka sell crownland, run all the privileges, and deal with the high autonomy by constantly reducing it as much as possible
@@LemonCake101 fair enough. everyone has there own playstyles. i guess a better way to ask is what privileges are more worth the slot in this given situation (also by going protestant you can make religious diplomats lower influence by 5 and effectively have no penalty to absolutism (which makes it cost effective to keep) and Italy in winds of change can make it give 5 absolutism via mission (in the wording it says it removes the penalty to absolutism, but going protestant/reformed allows it to give 5 absolutism under these conditions), which makes it more worthwhile). the free general is worth considering in basicly any game (if nothing else than to save early mil points), stuff like that
i just tried my luck to see if i could get the not just pizza achievement, this time i actually got it (had to develop the last bit of the way because i was basicly hugboxed, it helped that after a war with Aragon i was only around 20 ish off from being a great power) it was definitely best that i embraced that it was not going be continued (Siena was made a free city. Austria allied Aragon day 1. the ottomans got to Byzantium before i even had the opportunity to do anything in Greece, and i was reaching my loan limit faster than i would have liked)
Ey congrats!
@@LemonCake101 thanks, it took a few tries to get done
How could you leave out Shimazu??? Literally the strongest military ideas and overall very good- also their position to the south lets them have the ocean to their backs and cut off their island with ships if they have them, being at the very bottom of Japan also makes colonial range better if you decide on doing that.
Shimazu for Catholic Japan roleplay
Uesugi ist in my opinion the best nation for a super fast Japan unification.
Yes, their national ideas suck but they have twice the development of all its 8 starting neighbors.
date is perfect to play tall
Oh, yes, tall Date Shogunate was one of my favourite campaigns.
Tokugawa and if you want to be really persistent annex shiba to play Asakura are better.
maybe this type of video but for Anbennar?
Could be interesting!
I picked Amago as one of my first nations ever to force myself to learn. Don't do that. It was hell and took several tries to be able to recover from debt with powerful neighbors and no good heirs of age after you're forced to sudoku.
My choices, other than Oda or Shimazu, would be Date or for an easy start north Uesugi.
Before recent rework I united Japan several times, but quickly abandoned campaign since there's nothing much to do, besides being gremlin by blockading everyone. Is it worth giving full playthrough a go now?
I mean if you want to do missions indeed they have a mission tree post unification :)
I wish the buffs for the naval parts of the Japan mission tree were better. The land options buff your samurai special units to infinity, but the naval choice just buffs your marines??? It's weird. If they replaced it with morale of navies or damage off owned coast, naval japan would be up there with Indonesia & GBR as the best naval nations in the game. Japan deserves it
They do get an optional ship hull percentage buff, no?
@ Yeah I think so, but they already get that in their national ideas
Why didn't Paradox think about fixing the daimyos colours in that patch ? We all know the Shimazu should be green, not purple !
Shamefur dispray !
Map color is always a fun debate with no controversy :)
Nice
Thanks :)
Didn’t include Shiba smh
Can’t talk about every tag
@@LemonCake101I was just joking, great video!!
@@TrainmasterGT thanks :)
I like my dev and more ships, id you know the Japanese minor, you know.
Date date date
Hojo because their flag looks like a triforce
Bongo
Bongo
Let me guess, Ainu Japan?
Not a vassal day 1
longer comment for the algorithm 👍 cheers!
Day 9634 of asking Lemon "'how many different estates can you get in EU4 ? Because I'm curious. Also, you're the tastiest EU4 UA-camr 😮
You know you can route it yourself, you don’t need me to make it for you ;)
@LemonCake101 But but but 😥 Watching you doing it is way funnier ! Also I don't really play this game anymore, I'm just sticking to my beloved youtube creators :3
@@phnx257 aww thanks! But I would recommend a return to Eu4, it is a great game after all :)
@@LemonCake101 And risk to sink again in this timeless rabbit hole when I start a new game. Then forget to check the time, and SHIT it's 3am and I have to go to work "tomorrow" ... Well it's still tempting ngl
@@phnx257 its called having fun :)
Something something do the same video on Lithuania. Yeah. Yeah.... (please)
I do have to ask, why do you put so many shirtless muscular men in your thumbnails
Started as a meme for a ‘Chad ruler’ modifier stack but because yt works the way it does a face on a video makes more people click, so I kept doing it, you kept clicking and it’s like my style now
Anything but Amago(s); Thise guys are narcs.
oh whats this Amago bad lore?
Tried japan reformation? Okay buddy, how about you try a shower
Would have watched the videos, but do you really have to copy ludi with the lame thumbnails... I look elsewhere.
Good sir I just put topless men in mine, no relation to Ludi
Can we stop talking about that rip off of ck2? Whatever reject ck2 embrace imperaror rome!
Sorry Ck3 is under active development but clearly I:R was a terrible idea and hence cancelled
I tend to play Uesugi when I play Japan o:
Solid choice :)