This video was posted around 5 years ago, took me all these years and JUNskitchen to actually take knife sharpening seriously. This is such a helpful video. Thank you.
i started to use wetstone on my knife set; believer it or not, even on a lower end knives the stone makes a huge different. My knives are now razor sharp, slicing tomato without a bit of hesitation. Awesome!!!!
I watched a few of these videos because I want to learn how to sharpen knives myself with these stones. This video is the best I have seen. Very helpful and straight to the point.
Best simple, no non-sense video on knife sharpening tutorial I could find on UA-cam. Also the only video that actually shows the vantage point of the sharpener. 95% of people sharpening their kitchen knives just want a good sharp knife and don't care about a perfect edge. So what if the angle ended up being17 instead of 15, as long as it cuts well, who cares. Sure good free-hand sharpening skills take a long time to master and have a lot of subtleties, but most of the "tutorials" are overly complex and make it sound SO intimidating. At the end of the day, it is just sharpening a knife, not planning a mission to Mars.
Enjoyable to see your skills. I am a cut throat razor owner/user/collector/honer, and I love to see real technique. I saw in many of the comments below cursing the price of Japanese Waterstones as being too expensive. For my purposes I have a 325, 1k, 4k, 6k, 8k, 10k and 20k. More than a grands worth of lovely sharpening/honing stones. Don't worry about cost, but for people who aren't high end sharpeners of knives etc. You can still buy naniwa superstones for less than a hundred each, so your knives are worth a lot, and a blunt knife is to me intolerable, so bookmark this site and watch the technique. Excellent vid. Cheers Bob
Thank you Bob for your very instructive video. Just sharpened five knives (from 4" pairing through 10" wide blade) all Henckels/Wustoff, back to life after your instructions. The best one is an 8" Zwillings Cronidur, just needed the 5000 side. Regards from Brazil Sergio
Great video, and good instruction. This system is legit, but at around $600 for the whole kit some folks may find it a bit pricey. For those on a budget, you can still use these same techniques with less expensive flat stones and strop. This is surely nice if you can afford it though. And freehand sharpening is a great skill for anyone who uses knives to learn!
I watched another video last night and learned a little. One of my knives is still dull near the tip. Now I know how to sharpen it, and I think I need some better stones. Great video!
I received one of these Kramer Systems as a gift and was so worried about using such an expensive tool! I cook every day and am rather old school about it, scratch cook. I have kept my knives sharp with my steel, and a diamond steel that I am not overly fond of. I watched this video and it helped me so much, mainly with my fear of using it, and started with my old retired dull knives. It brought them up to paper cutting sharp in hardly any time. It was a bit messy but what the hey. My only problem is that I am short and putting it over the sink or on the counter is just too high. My countertop hits me at the waist, while Bob K.'s counter is hip height, about 4-5 inches lower. Guess I will have to levitate. Anyway, many thanks for the great vid and sharpening system, Bob. I love it!
Bob Kramer is a legend! I have been buying "better" knives over the years, but can't yet afford one of Bob's knives. As to the sharpening, just get a good 800, 3000, and 5000 grit set of stones. The 10k grit is just for polish. I have been able to slice thin paper cleanly after 3000 grit without any problems. Pay particular attention to Bob's motion as he sharpens the knife in this video... heel to tip while maintaining the angle. There are many other folks on YT with vids for sharpening knives, but it seems as though their method takes longer than Bob's. His method will allow you to sharpen a knife almost razor sharp in under 5 minutes, and the edge will last a long, long time. P.S. - If you buy a stamped steel knife, you will never be able to sharpen it effectively (like when it was new). Get good steel, and you will always be able to keep a sharp edge. Again, pay particular attention to Bob's motion and method. Even if you're clunky with it at first, your knife will be VERY sharp when you're done sharpening.
I was under the impression that once you start getting down to the final stages with the highest grit stones was that you also should de-burr with a cork or 2x4 or something like that before stropping. Is there something about his method that makes it ok to leave that step out?
All forms of water stones and carborundum or aluminum oxide stones will require flattening enventually. The only ones that dont are ones that dont wear, like the spyderco ceramics or the DMT or ezlap diamond stones.
My only issue with using whetstones (best way) is keeping the knife at a consistent angle every time. He recommends using a pack of matches. Which many "sharpeners" have also recommended for novices. How do you know where to position the matches in relation to the spine of the blade?
If you can afford Bob Kramer knives, just go ahead and buy the Wicked Edge sharpening system. It's really easy to use and far more accurate and user-friendly compared to hand-sharpening. Also, on your fine stones, try using a Mr. Clean magic eraser with some dish soap to remove buildup. It works wonders.
Robert Coffey guided systems are for sissies. The sharpest knives and swords comes from, wait for it....Japanese whetstones. Not from a Wicked Edge. The best edges come from hand sharpening, not by guided systems. On the fine Kramer Glass Ceramic stones you don't get buildup like you do on the softer synthetic stones. You never use any type of magic eraser or paper towel to remove any build up. A nagura cleaning stone is the proper way to clean stones. Let the nagura stone do its work then let the water move the buildup out of the way.
BigThumpr1 ...You have no clue what you're talking about. It's a guided system as in it's literally putting you on the exact angle YOU CHOOSE without deviating like on a free hand whetstone. Of course once you get experience, you'll be hitting the correct angle more often but let's face it....If I told you that I can offer you a whetstone system allowing you to hit the exact angle EVERY TIME without screwing up....you'd say no to that? Well, I know you would say no because your ego holds you back. With that said, I'd still like to put some time in to get better at freehand sharpening on a whetstone. One last thing.....my knives shave the hair off my hand way to easily!
Jonathan Arnold I could care less what you think you have to offer. I know exactly what the Wicked Edge. I am so amazed that it can keep consistent edge angles, that someone else predetermined. Until you or I are ABS Master Blade smiths, neither one of us know shit. I gave an answer that came from Murray Carter. Don't like it, oh well, no skin off of my dick. I listen to guys who have been sharpening long before there was a Wicked Edge, Edge Pro, Hapstone, KME, Spyderco Sharpmaker, Gatco, and have been in the trade for longer than I have been here. Guided systems don't teach you anything, they take someone else's idea of what the right angle is and you follow along that given angle. Different knives need different things done to the primary/secondary bevel, heel, belly, tip. Carry on with your system.
BigThumpr1 the sharpness of your knife, in the end, depends on two factors: the consistency of the angle at the edge and how fine the scratches are at the edge. Japanese whetstone can only offer so fine a grit and the human body is only capable of a certain degree of accuracy. I tend to cut my losses and sharpen a convex grind that I then strop all the way to .25 micron. Also, the reason that melamine foam works so well to remove metal particulate from sharpening stones is due to the particularly aggressive friction provided by the soft, deformable, spongy surface. Much like clay bar for cars, it rips impurities out without causing excessive damage to the surface.
I recently have been trying my hand at making my own stones out of natural agate slabs. I was wondering what the pros and cons of agate stones were versus synthetic?
its like this... you start out with hand me down knives you got form mom and dad (when they went to the big guns!) then once you finish colege and have a place that you want to look nice, you buy a kitchen all in one set. they all match, they are ok, it cost about 50$ and they really cant be sharpened. then a few years down the road, maybe with marriage, maybe just wanting some nicer stuff... you get a set of decent knives. you know, the 1-200$ Zwilling or henkel set. and you dig them... but over time... you know they need sharpening. and maybe you buy one of those machines to sharpen, over time you realize it doesnt work for shit. then you think back to your grandpa or somebody who knew how to sharpen knives... and you say ok... i am gonna get a stone set. And yes, there are awesome sets for under 50$. i have one. so you start to try your hand at it. and you fuck up the knives a bit... but over time, you get better at it. and once you are good at it... then AND ONLY then... do you reward yourself. you buy a serious knife. one the gives you goosebumps when you use it. the one that can slice a tomato razor thin... the one that cost 1-200$ for the single knife! Because buying one when you dont know how to maintain it is just silly. And life is good. and after a while, you added 4 or 5 more expensive top quality knives. so now you have like 1000$ invested in knives.... (hey, it becomes a bit of a hobby, dont judge me motherfuckers!!! :) ) and you need a new stone... do you buy another 50$ one? likely no. likely you drop the bigger money for the top quality stone set. because at this point... you are seriously hooked on seriously sharp knives. And i have to say, when you are slicing or dicing, and the knife just glides through things... its quite cool! And even if you stay with the cheap stones, and the 200$ set... you still watch the videos for the expensive stuff... cause the sharpening method is still the same.
Wow... harsh dude. I was just commenting that most of the time, really expensive toys like these are something you work up to. I certainly am not there yet, but would love to get there.
It's too bad they charge so much for those glass backed Chosera stones, when for a few bucks more you can get the bigger one. ESPECIALLY when the bigger one is 4 times the thickness... The glass backing will allow you to work the stone right down to the end though, just like shapton glass stones. I think all companies should glass back their stones, it makes them stronger too. Just a great idea all around.
Arkansas stones don't work very well on fine grained knives like Kramer's. They're fine for middle-grade stainless and oil sharpening for utility type blades.
Will the sharpener in the back of the electric can opener do the same thing as all 3 stones?? I'm kidding,,,,,,but in all honesty can a cheap set of knives ( under 100 bucks) be sharpened?
+Bassmaster Florida any knife can be shaped. with cheape knives i would go for a 22 degree angle, purely because oftent he steel is softer, so a long razor style edge will chip and dull quickly, whilst high quality steel is harder, and can retain a finer edge easily. but as i said, my $22 sentoku knife was the sharpest knife i owned untll i bought my shun knives.
Why remove the knife particles on the stone? Most stones should keep them to improve the sharpening of the knife. Are the Kramer stones hard enough that you don't need the particles to sharpen?
the water in a bottle, not an open container. Brilliant!! Particularly for those who might share a space with she-who-must-be-obeyed, and her eagle eye for messy splash between the water and the stone.
Just want to say, don't do a 12-15 degree edge on your basic knifes. Is you didn't go out of your way to buy a good knife, you can't maintain that edge long. Try to figure out 19-21 degree edges and you won't chip or have to sharpen it as often.
nhudie depends on what your going for and what angle the knife has been kept at to begin with. If you want a razor blade for cutting veggies etc...go 12-25degrees. If your cutting through bone or hard veggies....go 20 degrees.
+pafalzon - And? If the Quality is there, and you have the Need for this quality; then what is your issue? Cutting tools of every type need to have a edge. If those tools are what you use to make your living, then it would do you good to have high quality sharpening equipment. Right? Yes. There are other ways to sharpen knives. My grandfather took ours down into his basement workshop, and sharpened them with his grinders and belt sander. They were very sharp when he got done. But, he also changed the shape of the knife in the process; some of the oldest knives had concave blade edges. They looked a bit funky, but we could cut meat, potatoes, or tomatoes 'so thin they only had one side'. I'd much rather have this tool set to sharpen my Blades (I have knives, axes, hatchets, and swords). I'm less likely to screw them up with these stones.
When you're pulling the blade to you, you're about 30°. You don't talk about that, but Japanese knife sharpeners have a difference in angle between each side. I wish you'd talked about that.
Notice he uses a sheet of shiny magazine paper, rolled over, and he push cuts through it. That's about the toughest paper-based test one can make of a knife.
Past a certain price point, it's more about pride-of-ownership/joy-of-use than functionality. Unless one has money to waste, I'd first get a book on knife skills, and a good sharpening setup -- awesome ones are available for $40 on Amazon. A cheap knife that's sharp in skilled hands is more useful than an expensive knife, poorly maintained, in the hands of a klutz. Once some basic skills are down pat, then it will be easy to pick a knife that fits the hand and balances right and has the right flexibility and heft and rock and so on. There's a good chance that the one that's 'best' is *not* the expensive one.
eric moss watch some Kramer videos and you will quickly see why his knives are so expensive. He forging from scratch. Hell....he's even using meteorites (melting them down because they are made of iron) and implementing it into his knives! The shear work and time it takes to make one single knife is insane. Take a look at the patterns that he makes in the blade. It's functional art and will last nearly forever. His personal hand made knives could go for $3000 and still be worth it.
Jonathan Arnold They're totally worth it -- it's more that they aren't something I'd use in any commercial or child-filled environment, just because too many people wouldn't show them any love. Among lesser knives, and in harsher environments, I do think there are knives whose price reflects their appearance, but the quality of their cut doesn't match up.
If Home Depot carries abrasive papers at an appropriately fine grit (which I expect that they don't), then there is no problem using an abrasive paper vs. a stone. In fact, 3M makes some very nice abrasive papers. You may also be able to get some from Struers, but they are mostly a scientific supplier for metallographic preparation, and thus not really cheap. A concern with abrasive papers is that dragging the edge of the blade is better than pushing the edge of the blade.
Doesn't matter that much. As long as you keep the same angle. Then you will feel if it feels good. Try cutting something. This is a craft, it takes time to become really good at it.
Kramer knives are sold through Sur La Table stores. These particular "Carbon Steel" knives he is sharpening and on the counter behind him are only sold online at surlatable.com and are about $1,499.00 for the set. they don't sell them at the brick and mortar stores any longer. they now carry a Bob Kramer "essential" set for a more affordable price as well as the "Damascus" knives which have a pattern running through the blade and are more expensive then the Carbon Steel knives. I own the 8 inch Chefs knife and it is by far my favorite knife and pretty much my go to knife in the kitchen. Incredibly sharp
Why on earth would anyone make a synthetic stone that is black or dark gray so that it hides the "swarf"? Seeing the "swarf" or "fines" is a full third of your feedback.
They look like extra thickness glasstones. Anyone wondering about the kit, the stones that you use are irrelevant, especially if you stick to higher quality modern stones. There are natural stones that are good, too, but good natural stones can be exorbitantly expensive and in the world of moderately priced stones, you can end up with junk. But, if you buy extremely expensive designer knives, do yourself a favor and spend the money on a decent pair (or three) of stones. They will last you a lifetime. If you have two in the 1000/5000 range and you need more coarse, you are waiting far too long to sharpen your knives. More than 3, especially above 500 grit, and you are doing something more for cosmetics than function. Arkansas stones are great (my favorite), but the learning curve is steeper with them. If you want to try sandpaper (not a favorite), do yourself a favor and at least buy some fine grits in wet and dry paper (silicon carbide) and use them wet. Aluminum oxide papers at home depot are pretty harsh (and silicon carbide is to some extent, too, but at least it will break down on the surface of wet and dry paper).
Professional Chef's that care about their expensive high end knives and want to take the time and do it the old school way...I would never sharpen my knives with a machine.
morgothmgh.: no, you are creating burr that you can feel with your thumb that makes it feel sharp most likely. Might even cut well for a short time, but diamond steels only take out chunks of your blade.
I have just started saving. I wish I can save up enough amount and win the lottery before he retire or unable to do it anymore. God, they are so beautiful.
There is some other knife guy on youtube who says to see how good you are at sharpening, roll up an entire magazine and cut it, then look at the cut paper and see how clean the cut is, and how much was torn.
I'm sure if taking the garbage out or cleaning was more meaningful (recycling? getting money for the waste you give away? feeling better?), we could take as much pleasure from it than sharpening our tools. By the way some people might already be like that.
+AbsoluteXero Thats because Zwilling make a Bob kramer knife range, of which are very high quality. Yes inferior to the real things, but nonetheless good knives.
My comment on pushing was specifically with respect to abrasive paper (including those on plastic, rather than paper backing). There is a danger there of cutting into the backing. The same does not apply to stones.
Are you kidding? Arkansas stones work best on the finest grain metals, so long as there aren't carbides harder than the stone particles. the DON"T work well on steels that have large carbides in them. But there is no virtue to steels that have large carbides in them. The only thing that makes cheap stainless knives tolerable on arkansas stones is that cheap stainless knives are always soft. Anything will sharpen them because of their softness.
I think everything is becoming too complicated. Like everyone selling some new gimmick or product to the point where you cant make a decision. I liked the idea of the 3 stone setup, seemed like it worked and to the point. But then he starts going into more products and stropping etc.. I saw a video of a guy getting good results with $10 of stuff he made in his kitchen..
You definitely dont NEED to have a strop, its just another step if you like to get your knives really sharp, instead you could just very lightly draw the knife across a piece 2X4. And you most certainly can get away with cheap materials. I've sharpened a kitchen knife plenty sharp enough to slice through paper with an old carborundum combo stone my dad had probably cost him something like $15 and a leather strop around $20. The strop is great for getting the edge refined without having to spend a lot more money for a very fine grit stone. You can also get away with a nice flat piece of tile and wet dry sand paper. personally I like being able to just grab my stone off the shelf and go to work isntead of having to set up a tile and sand paper but if you want results for cheap it can be done.
You can use newspaper, cardboard for a final stropping as well. VERY lightly (knife weight, if that) away from the edge as Mr. Kramer says. Do it after every use if the edge isn't damaged & keep that scary sharp edge hone.(only takes a few seconds & who doesn't have cardboard or newsprint around?) Sure you'll have to take it to the whet stones every now n then to re-establish the geometry & possibly the secondary edge as well (blade body directly above the cutting edge). As you sharpen the knife it gets shorter. Most knives get thicker the further you go up towards the spine, so the material will get thicker with sharpening (removing metal) at whatever angles you're using. Reducing the secondary edge helps keep the thin profile of the blade & cutting performance. Keeping the secondary edge lowered in relation to how many times you sharpen the primary edge will help keep the performance. Think of it this way: you have a say 15 degree bevel that's great out of the box. Then after a year of sharpening the blade thickness above the edge is thicker because you've removed that metal. Now the 15 degrees is there but then suddenly hits thick steel & performance is reduced drastically.
glass papers yes but sandpapers i'd dread to think of the damage you'd cause to all your fine work if you used sandpaper. sandpaper to me is course grit.. glass papers finer.
Murray Carter is an ABS Master Bladesmith and he's been making Japanese since the 1990's. I think he's in his 30's now. He makes Japanese style knives, including sushi knives while Kramer makes Western style knives. A knife will cut paper if you draw it across a piece of paper despite the fact that the knife isn't really that sharp. It will cut paper even if it has a burr. The test of a knife's sharpness should be done with a push cut and not a draw cut. Place the knife edge on a piece of paper and push straight down. You should test each part of the knife edge by pushing straight down and not across the paper. This will let you know if your knife is really sharp or just so, so. A knife will cut arm hair, but still not be really that sharp and can even have a burr on it.
Murray is in OR and chopping a 2x4" in a standard part of a multipart test you must pass to qualify as, "Journeyman Bladesmith" in the American Bladesmith Society in Arkansas. Murray and Kramer are both ABS "Master Bladesmiths". So Ken Allen you don't know shit!
Murray did not only make kitchen knives, he also makes hunting knives, so he couldn't be specialising in kitchen cutlery. I saw Bob chopping 2x4 lumbers (in a video of course), I'd say is impressive, but I do not think chopping that thing is a requirement to qualify in ABS. Knives can chip, how could they be chopping wood when they are designed to chop something much much softer? :/
Ken Allen Wow, where to start... First of all, you can't be an ABS master blade smith if you have ONLY made kitchen knives. Just to be eligible to take the test, you have to present a number of knives, including a quillion dagger, so yes, obviously every master smith has made a variety of types of knives, that doesn't mean that they don't specialize in a certain type. If 95% of the knives you make are kitchen knives, it's more than fair to say you specialize in them. Secondly, chopping through 2x4s IS absolutely part of the ABS tests and you DO have to do that in order to have any rating but apprentice in the ABS. After a visual exam, the knife must cut through a 1" hanging rope and then through 2 real 2x4s (not standard wall studs), after which it must still be sharp enough to shave hair without a resharpening. Then it must bend 90 degrees without breaking. Obviously kitchen knives are not for wood chopping, but the 2x4 test is applied to all ABS test knives, because it is a test of good edge-holding ability, which indicates that the smith has a proper grasp on heat treating steel.
ADK MTNS Murray is actually in his mid-40s, he just has a baby face. He went to Japan in '88 fresh out of high school, started a bladesmith apprenticeship soon after arriving, and by '98 he was already selling at knife shows.
This video was posted around 5 years ago, took me all these years and JUNskitchen to actually take knife sharpening seriously. This is such a helpful video. Thank you.
Hello people from Jun's video.
FluffyPuff138 hello
Hello.
i started to use wetstone on my knife set; believer it or not, even on a lower end knives the stone makes a huge different. My knives are now razor sharp, slicing tomato without a bit of hesitation. Awesome!!!!
I watched a few of these videos because I want to learn how to sharpen knives myself with these stones. This video is the best I have seen. Very helpful and straight to the point.
Bob Kramer is a master bladesmith for sure! We are big fans of Bob and apply many of his methods in our Knife Sharpening services.
Best simple, no non-sense video on knife sharpening tutorial I could find on UA-cam. Also the only video that actually shows the vantage point of the sharpener. 95% of people sharpening their kitchen knives just want a good sharp knife and don't care about a perfect edge. So what if the angle ended up being17 instead of 15, as long as it cuts well, who cares. Sure good free-hand sharpening skills take a long time to master and have a lot of subtleties, but most of the "tutorials" are overly complex and make it sound SO intimidating. At the end of the day, it is just sharpening a knife, not planning a mission to Mars.
most people who watch this video have no clue how amazing of a knife maker and blade smith Bob Kramer is.
Enjoyable to see your skills. I am a cut throat razor owner/user/collector/honer, and I love to see real technique. I saw in many of the comments below cursing the price of Japanese Waterstones as being too expensive. For my purposes I have a 325, 1k, 4k, 6k, 8k, 10k and 20k. More than a grands worth of lovely sharpening/honing stones. Don't worry about cost, but for people who aren't high end sharpeners of knives etc. You can still buy naniwa superstones for less than a hundred each, so your knives are worth a lot, and a blunt knife is to me intolerable, so bookmark this site and watch the technique. Excellent vid. Cheers Bob
Bob Kramer Chefs knife is my dream. Most beautiful knife I’ve seen.
Thank you Bob for your very instructive video. Just sharpened five knives (from 4" pairing through 10" wide blade) all Henckels/Wustoff, back to life after your instructions. The best one is an 8" Zwillings Cronidur, just needed the 5000 side.
Regards from Brazil
Sergio
Mr. Kramer is amazing, love his knife creations, his cutting boards, and his educational series. If only I could afford his art, er, I mean knives!
Great video, and good instruction. This system is legit, but at around $600 for the whole kit some folks may find it a bit pricey.
For those on a budget, you can still use these same techniques with less expensive flat stones and strop.
This is surely nice if you can afford it though. And freehand sharpening is a great skill for anyone who uses knives to learn!
Jun's Video bring me here.😊🙏
I watched another video last night and learned a little. One of my knives is still dull near the tip. Now I know how to sharpen it, and I think I need some better stones. Great video!
I received one of these Kramer Systems as a gift and was so worried about using such an expensive tool! I cook every day and am rather old school about it, scratch cook. I have kept my knives sharp with my steel, and a diamond steel that I am not overly fond of. I watched this video and it helped me so much, mainly with my fear of using it, and started with my old retired dull knives. It brought them up to paper cutting sharp in hardly any time. It was a bit messy but what the hey. My only problem is that I am short and putting it over the sink or on the counter is just too high. My countertop hits me at the waist, while Bob K.'s counter is hip height, about 4-5 inches lower. Guess I will have to levitate. Anyway, many thanks for the great vid and sharpening system, Bob. I love it!
Bob Kramer is a legend! I have been buying "better" knives over the years, but can't yet afford one of Bob's knives. As to the sharpening, just get a good 800, 3000, and 5000 grit set of stones. The 10k grit is just for polish. I have been able to slice thin paper cleanly after 3000 grit without any problems. Pay particular attention to Bob's motion as he sharpens the knife in this video... heel to tip while maintaining the angle. There are many other folks on YT with vids for sharpening knives, but it seems as though their method takes longer than Bob's. His method will allow you to sharpen a knife almost razor sharp in under 5 minutes, and the edge will last a long, long time. P.S. - If you buy a stamped steel knife, you will never be able to sharpen it effectively (like when it was new). Get good steel, and you will always be able to keep a sharp edge. Again, pay particular attention to Bob's motion and method. Even if you're clunky with it at first, your knife will be VERY sharp when you're done sharpening.
I already know how to get sharp knives. Where can I get that kid blackboard?
I was under the impression that once you start getting down to the final stages with the highest grit stones was that you also should de-burr with a cork or 2x4 or something like that before stropping. Is there something about his method that makes it ok to leave that step out?
+Dan Roden yes his method is different to what i have heard too
There is no one that can craft a knife like Mr Kramer. It would be a dream to own a Kramer creation.
I started with a kinfe now I have a sharp ice pic....I need to practice...great vid
do you have to flatten these stones like the whet stones? or they maintain their flat surface because it is synthetic?
I want to know this aswell.
All forms of water stones and carborundum or aluminum oxide stones will require flattening enventually. The only ones that dont are ones that dont wear, like the spyderco ceramics or the DMT or ezlap diamond stones.
You will have to flatten them. Only stones that doesn't need flattening are diamond stones.
Okay thanks!
How much do those stones cost? i like the idea of sharpening a blade with a stone
Muchas gracias por compartir tus conocimientos, saludos.
My only issue with using whetstones (best way) is keeping the knife at a consistent angle every time. He recommends using a pack of matches. Which many "sharpeners" have also recommended for novices. How do you know where to position the matches in relation to the spine of the blade?
Looks like a realy nice sharpening system. I think it would be fun to play with this for an hour or two, I'm gonna have to look up the price on this!
If you can afford Bob Kramer knives, just go ahead and buy the Wicked Edge sharpening system. It's really easy to use and far more accurate and user-friendly compared to hand-sharpening.
Also, on your fine stones, try using a Mr. Clean magic eraser with some dish soap to remove buildup. It works wonders.
Robert Coffey I agree
Robert Coffey guided systems are for sissies. The sharpest knives and swords comes from, wait for it....Japanese whetstones. Not from a Wicked Edge. The best edges come from hand sharpening, not by guided systems. On the fine Kramer Glass Ceramic stones you don't get buildup like you do on the softer synthetic stones. You never use any type of magic eraser or paper towel to remove any build up. A nagura cleaning stone is the proper way to clean stones. Let the nagura stone do its work then let the water move the buildup out of the way.
BigThumpr1 ...You have no clue what you're talking about. It's a guided system as in it's literally putting you on the exact angle YOU CHOOSE without deviating like on a free hand whetstone. Of course once you get experience, you'll be hitting the correct angle more often but let's face it....If I told you that I can offer you a whetstone system allowing you to hit the exact angle EVERY TIME without screwing up....you'd say no to that? Well, I know you would say no because your ego holds you back. With that said, I'd still like to put some time in to get better at freehand sharpening on a whetstone. One last thing.....my knives shave the hair off my hand way to easily!
Jonathan Arnold I could care less what you think you have to offer. I know exactly what the Wicked Edge. I am so amazed that it can keep consistent edge angles, that someone else predetermined. Until you or I are ABS Master Blade smiths, neither one of us know shit. I gave an answer that came from Murray Carter. Don't like it, oh well, no skin off of my dick. I listen to guys who have been sharpening long before there was a Wicked Edge, Edge Pro, Hapstone, KME, Spyderco Sharpmaker, Gatco, and have been in the trade for longer than I have been here. Guided systems don't teach you anything, they take someone else's idea of what the right angle is and you follow along that given angle. Different knives need different things done to the primary/secondary bevel, heel, belly, tip. Carry on with your system.
BigThumpr1 the sharpness of your knife, in the end, depends on two factors: the consistency of the angle at the edge and how fine the scratches are at the edge. Japanese whetstone can only offer so fine a grit and the human body is only capable of a certain degree of accuracy. I tend to cut my losses and sharpen a convex grind that I then strop all the way to .25 micron. Also, the reason that melamine foam works so well to remove metal particulate from sharpening stones is due to the particularly aggressive friction provided by the soft, deformable, spongy surface. Much like clay bar for cars, it rips impurities out without causing excessive damage to the surface.
I recently have been trying my hand at making my own stones out of natural agate slabs. I was wondering what the pros and cons of agate stones were versus synthetic?
Very helpful and nicely done video.
Thank you so much for the educational video. Cheers.
its like this... you start out with hand me down knives you got form mom and dad (when they went to the big guns!) then once you finish colege and have a place that you want to look nice, you buy a kitchen all in one set. they all match, they are ok, it cost about 50$ and they really cant be sharpened.
then a few years down the road, maybe with marriage, maybe just wanting some nicer stuff... you get a set of decent knives. you know, the 1-200$ Zwilling or henkel set. and you dig them... but over time... you know they need sharpening. and maybe you buy one of those machines to sharpen, over time you realize it doesnt work for shit.
then you think back to your grandpa or somebody who knew how to sharpen knives... and you say ok... i am gonna get a stone set.
And yes, there are awesome sets for under 50$. i have one. so you start to try your hand at it. and you fuck up the knives a bit... but over time, you get better at it. and once you are good at it... then AND ONLY then... do you reward yourself. you buy a serious knife. one the gives you goosebumps when you use it. the one that can slice a tomato razor thin... the one that cost 1-200$ for the single knife! Because buying one when you dont know how to maintain it is just silly.
And life is good. and after a while, you added 4 or 5 more expensive top quality knives. so now you have like 1000$ invested in knives.... (hey, it becomes a bit of a hobby, dont judge me motherfuckers!!! :) ) and you need a new stone... do you buy another 50$ one? likely no. likely you drop the bigger money for the top quality stone set.
because at this point... you are seriously hooked on seriously sharp knives.
And i have to say, when you are slicing or dicing, and the knife just glides through things... its quite cool!
And even if you stay with the cheap stones, and the 200$ set... you still watch the videos for the expensive stuff... cause the sharpening method is still the same.
Wow... harsh dude.
I was just commenting that most of the time, really expensive toys like these are something you work up to.
I certainly am not there yet, but would love to get there.
It's too bad they charge so much for those glass backed Chosera stones, when for a few bucks more you can get the bigger one. ESPECIALLY when the bigger one is 4 times the thickness... The glass backing will allow you to work the stone right down to the end though, just like shapton glass stones. I think all companies should glass back their stones, it makes them stronger too. Just a great idea all around.
Take a glass and dremel then make your own glass plated stone be smart boi
Melhor faca do mundo... Parabens pelo produto.
do we really need to use differend grit stone?
Felicidades y gracias por su buen hacer
Norton waterstones are made in the USA.
It is correct to use a aluminum oxide steel after a 5000+ sharpening Whetstone l?
WOW!! I really want this set up ... Do ya ship to Australia ?
can you use the sandpaper at home depot?
Hi Bob. Would you recommend 15° to any knife if is very dull?
Great video, super helpful.
he makes it look so easy!
I can imagine the 10k grit stone must feel like a clean marble table =P
what stones are you using Boby
Will these stones be effective on a D2 tool steel blade?
Yes
Is this something that is shipped internationally or US/NA only?
Arkansas stones don't work very well on fine grained knives like Kramer's. They're fine for middle-grade stainless and oil sharpening for utility type blades.
I would love to buy this set where can I buy this exact set the stones and the wooden brace for the stones?
Will the sharpener in the back of the electric can opener do the same thing as all 3 stones??
I'm kidding,,,,,,but in all honesty can a cheap set of knives ( under 100 bucks) be sharpened?
+Bassmaster Florida
any knife can be shaped. with cheape knives i would go for a 22 degree angle, purely because oftent he steel is softer, so a long razor style edge will chip and dull quickly, whilst high quality steel is harder, and can retain a finer edge easily. but as i said, my $22 sentoku knife was the sharpest knife i owned untll i bought my shun knives.
+Travis Power Soft metal does not chip, it bends. Hard metal chips.
Bassmaster Florida Cheap Knives love the King Neo 800 Sharpening Stone and the Naniwa Aotoshi 2k Green Brick of Joy.
Hi Bob , where can i find those Stones in London please ?
Why remove the knife particles on the stone? Most stones should keep them to improve the sharpening of the knife. Are the Kramer stones hard enough that you don't need the particles to sharpen?
Can these sharpening sets be purchased in the UK?
the water in a bottle, not an open container. Brilliant!! Particularly for those who might share a space with she-who-must-be-obeyed, and her eagle eye for messy splash between the water and the stone.
Arkansas are general use japanese water stones are for a very keen razor edge
hands down best knives out there
Just want to say, don't do a 12-15 degree edge on your basic knifes. Is you didn't go out of your way to buy a good knife, you can't maintain that edge long. Try to figure out 19-21 degree edges and you won't chip or have to sharpen it as often.
nhudie depends on what your going for and what angle the knife has been kept at to begin with. If you want a razor blade for cutting veggies etc...go 12-25degrees. If your cutting through bone or hard veggies....go 20 degrees.
where can i get this kit?
あの砥石固定台ほしい！！！
This is a very nice kit but damn its expensive
+pafalzon - And? If the Quality is there, and you have the Need for this quality; then what is your issue?
Cutting tools of every type need to have a edge. If those tools are what you use to make your living, then it would do you good to have high quality sharpening equipment. Right?
Yes. There are other ways to sharpen knives.
My grandfather took ours down into his basement workshop, and sharpened them with his grinders and belt sander. They were very sharp when he got done. But, he also changed the shape of the knife in the process; some of the oldest knives had concave blade edges. They looked a bit funky, but we could cut meat, potatoes, or tomatoes 'so thin they only had one side'.
I'd much rather have this tool set to sharpen my Blades (I have knives, axes, hatchets, and swords). I'm less likely to screw them up with these stones.
When you're pulling the blade to you, you're about 30°. You don't talk about that, but Japanese knife sharpeners have a difference in angle between each side. I wish you'd talked about that.
A big like for this video.. Thank you very much
Thank you Mr. Kramer, this was a great tutorial, I'm about to start my sharpening career...
Very, very informative!!
Notice he uses a sheet of shiny magazine paper, rolled over, and he push cuts through it. That's about the toughest paper-based test one can make of a knife.
This system will not work with a Bic lighter
I was like hell yea I order that...until I saw its $300😲
wow, the prices on those knives. must be for the rich, chefs, or serious cooks.
Reagan wasn't a Hinckley fan either. ;) But you're right -- good tools are a joy to use.
Past a certain price point, it's more about pride-of-ownership/joy-of-use than functionality. Unless one has money to waste, I'd first get a book on knife skills, and a good sharpening setup -- awesome ones are available for $40 on Amazon. A cheap knife that's sharp in skilled hands is more useful than an expensive knife, poorly maintained, in the hands of a klutz. Once some basic skills are down pat, then it will be easy to pick a knife that fits the hand and balances right and has the right flexibility and heft and rock and so on. There's a good chance that the one that's 'best' is *not* the expensive one.
eric moss watch some Kramer videos and you will quickly see why his knives are so expensive. He forging from scratch. Hell....he's even using meteorites (melting them down because they are made of iron) and implementing it into his knives! The shear work and time it takes to make one single knife is insane. Take a look at the patterns that he makes in the blade. It's functional art and will last nearly forever. His personal hand made knives could go for $3000 and still be worth it.
Jonathan Arnold They're totally worth it -- it's more that they aren't something I'd use in any commercial or child-filled environment, just because too many people wouldn't show them any love. Among lesser knives, and in harsher environments, I do think there are knives whose price reflects their appearance, but the quality of their cut doesn't match up.
chefs don't use expensive knives as those. only fancy home cooks use those kind of knives.
If Home Depot carries abrasive papers at an appropriately fine grit (which I expect that they don't), then there is no problem using an abrasive paper vs. a stone. In fact, 3M makes some very nice abrasive papers. You may also be able to get some from Struers, but they are mostly a scientific supplier for metallographic preparation, and thus not really cheap. A concern with abrasive papers is that dragging the edge of the blade is better than pushing the edge of the blade.
Doesn't matter that much. As long as you keep the same angle. Then you will feel if it feels good. Try cutting something.
This is a craft, it takes time to become really good at it.
Where is the knive stand/set from on the counter in the background from?
It's made by Zwilling. Look up "Zwilling Twin 1731", but be prepared for some sticker shock!
Kramer knives are sold through Sur La Table stores. These particular "Carbon Steel" knives he is sharpening and on the counter behind him are only sold online at surlatable.com and are about $1,499.00 for the set. they don't sell them at the brick and mortar stores any longer. they now carry a Bob Kramer "essential" set for a more affordable price as well as the "Damascus" knives which have a pattern running through the blade and are more expensive then the Carbon Steel knives. I own the 8 inch Chefs knife and it is by far my favorite knife and pretty much my go to knife in the kitchen. Incredibly sharp
Why on earth would anyone make a synthetic stone that is black or dark gray so that it hides the "swarf"? Seeing the "swarf" or "fines" is a full third of your feedback.
how do I do this for a fraction of the cost? lol
Define fraction in your terms?
Matthew Cheung Naniwa Specialty Stones
They look like extra thickness glasstones. Anyone wondering about the kit, the stones that you use are irrelevant, especially if you stick to higher quality modern stones. There are natural stones that are good, too, but good natural stones can be exorbitantly expensive and in the world of moderately priced stones, you can end up with junk. But, if you buy extremely expensive designer knives, do yourself a favor and spend the money on a decent pair (or three) of stones. They will last you a lifetime. If you have two in the 1000/5000 range and you need more coarse, you are waiting far too long to sharpen your knives. More than 3, especially above 500 grit, and you are doing something more for cosmetics than function.
Arkansas stones are great (my favorite), but the learning curve is steeper with them. If you want to try sandpaper (not a favorite), do yourself a favor and at least buy some fine grits in wet and dry paper (silicon carbide) and use them wet. Aluminum oxide papers at home depot are pretty harsh (and silicon carbide is to some extent, too, but at least it will break down on the surface of wet and dry paper).
He makes it look so simple! Last time i tried sharpening my knife on a block, think i just ended up with my knife turning into a baseball bat (-_-)"
acho ele lindo
Professional Chef's that care about their expensive high end knives and want to take the time and do it the old school way...I would never sharpen my knives with a machine.
“Bladesmith” that sounds cool
morgothmgh.: no, you are creating burr that you can feel with your thumb that makes it feel sharp most likely. Might even cut well for a short time, but diamond steels only take out chunks of your blade.
true
I have just started saving. I wish I can save up enough amount and win the lottery before he retire or unable to do it anymore. God, they are so beautiful.
Was actually in to this until I saw it was 300 dollars. Fuck that.
There is some other knife guy on youtube who says to see how good you are at sharpening, roll up an entire magazine and cut it, then look at the cut paper and see how clean the cut is, and how much was torn.
I'm sure if taking the garbage out or cleaning was more meaningful (recycling? getting money for the waste you give away? feeling better?), we could take as much pleasure from it than sharpening our tools. By the way some people might already be like that.
He would just put the matchbook there to get his angle. He wouldn't keep it there.
トミックから
count the sides ...
Jun brought be here.
It's funny how Bob Kramer who makes $2400 knives of his own, is doing a show sponsored by Zwilling, an inferior knife.
+AbsoluteXero
Thats because Zwilling make a Bob kramer knife range, of which are very high quality. Yes inferior to the real things, but nonetheless good knives.
+AbsoluteXero Zwilling makes some garbage but their Kramer series in 52100 is excellent.
My comment on pushing was specifically with respect to abrasive paper (including those on plastic, rather than paper backing). There is a danger there of cutting into the backing. The same does not apply to stones.
Are you kidding? Arkansas stones work best on the finest grain metals, so long as there aren't carbides harder than the stone particles. the DON"T work well on steels that have large carbides in them. But there is no virtue to steels that have large carbides in them. The only thing that makes cheap stainless knives tolerable on arkansas stones is that cheap stainless knives are always soft. Anything will sharpen them because of their softness.
lol why?
Super, ale jako všichni kovbojové toho strašně moc nakecají.)
is it just me or he looks a bit like Ben from "Lost"?
those are 500 dollar s knives XD
Anyone else see a face at 8:25?
Be tenderer.
Handsome man
work's
I think everything is becoming too complicated. Like everyone selling some new gimmick or product to the point where you cant make a decision. I liked the idea of the 3 stone setup, seemed like it worked and to the point. But then he starts going into more products and stropping etc.. I saw a video of a guy getting good results with $10 of stuff he made in his kitchen..
You definitely dont NEED to have a strop, its just another step if you like to get your knives really sharp, instead you could just very lightly draw the knife across a piece 2X4. And you most certainly can get away with cheap materials.
I've sharpened a kitchen knife plenty sharp enough to slice through paper with an old carborundum combo stone my dad had probably cost him something like $15 and a leather strop around $20. The strop is great for getting the edge refined without having to spend a lot more money for a very fine grit stone. You can also get away with a nice flat piece of tile and wet dry sand paper. personally I like being able to just grab my stone off the shelf and go to work isntead of having to set up a tile and sand paper but if you want results for cheap it can be done.
You can use newspaper, cardboard for a final stropping as well. VERY lightly (knife weight, if that) away from the edge as Mr. Kramer says. Do it after every use if the edge isn't damaged & keep that scary sharp edge hone.(only takes a few seconds & who doesn't have cardboard or newsprint around?) Sure you'll have to take it to the whet stones every now n then to re-establish the geometry & possibly the secondary edge as well (blade body directly above the cutting edge). As you sharpen the knife it gets shorter. Most knives get thicker the further you go up towards the spine, so the material will get thicker with sharpening (removing metal) at whatever angles you're using. Reducing the secondary edge helps keep the thin profile of the blade & cutting performance. Keeping the secondary edge lowered in relation to how many times you sharpen the primary edge will help keep the performance. Think of it this way: you have a say 15 degree bevel that's great out of the box. Then after a year of sharpening the blade thickness above the edge is thicker because you've removed that metal. Now the 15 degrees is there but then suddenly hits thick steel & performance is reduced drastically.
glass papers yes but sandpapers i'd dread to think of the damage you'd cause to all your fine work if you used sandpaper.
sandpaper to me is course grit.. glass papers finer.
Murray Carter is an ABS Master Bladesmith and he's been making Japanese since the 1990's. I think he's in his 30's now. He makes Japanese style knives, including sushi knives while Kramer makes Western style knives.
A knife will cut paper if you draw it across a piece of paper despite the fact that the knife isn't really that sharp. It will cut paper even if it has a burr. The test of a knife's sharpness should be done with a push cut and not a draw cut. Place the knife edge on a piece of paper and push straight down. You should test each part of the knife edge by pushing straight down and not across the paper. This will let you know if your knife is really sharp or just so, so. A knife will cut arm hair, but still not be really that sharp and can even have a burr on it.
+Dan Morris Yeah, Murray is one, and there's also Micheal Rader, he specializes in Kitchen knives and he's also in WA and also an ABS master smith.
Murray is in OR and chopping a 2x4" in a standard part of a multipart test you must pass to qualify as, "Journeyman Bladesmith" in the American Bladesmith Society in Arkansas. Murray and Kramer are both ABS "Master Bladesmiths". So Ken Allen you don't know shit!
Murray did not only make kitchen knives, he also makes hunting knives, so he couldn't be specialising in kitchen cutlery. I saw Bob chopping 2x4 lumbers (in a video of course), I'd say is impressive, but I do not think chopping that thing is a requirement to qualify in ABS. Knives can chip, how could they be chopping wood when they are designed to chop something much much softer? :/
Ken Allen
Wow, where to start... First of all, you can't be an ABS master blade smith if you have ONLY made kitchen knives. Just to be eligible to take the test, you have to present a number of knives, including a quillion dagger, so yes, obviously every master smith has made a variety of types of knives, that doesn't mean that they don't specialize in a certain type. If 95% of the knives you make are kitchen knives, it's more than fair to say you specialize in them. Secondly, chopping through 2x4s IS absolutely part of the ABS tests and you DO have to do that in order to have any rating but apprentice in the ABS. After a visual exam, the knife must cut through a 1" hanging rope and then through 2 real 2x4s (not standard wall studs), after which it must still be sharp enough to shave hair without a resharpening. Then it must bend 90 degrees without breaking. Obviously kitchen knives are not for wood chopping, but the 2x4 test is applied to all ABS test knives, because it is a test of good edge-holding ability, which indicates that the smith has a proper grasp on heat treating steel.
ADK MTNS
Murray is actually in his mid-40s, he just has a baby face. He went to Japan in '88 fresh out of high school, started a bladesmith apprenticeship soon after arriving, and by '98 he was already selling at knife shows.