How did conspiracy theories become mainstream? | Naomi Klein | Big Questions
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- Naomi Klein joins us at Penguin to answer some big questions on the reality-distorting algorithms, social media regulation, and the true threat of AI. Order Naomi's new book Doppelganger here: bit.ly/45LRPwN
When Naomi Klein discovered that a woman who shared her first name, but had radically different, harmful views, was getting chronically mistaken for her, it seemed too ridiculous to take seriously. Then suddenly it wasn't. She started to find herself grappling with a distorted sense of reality, becoming obsessed with reading the threats on social media, the endlessly scrolling insults from the followers of her doppelganger. Why had her shadowy other gone down such an extreme path? Why was identity - all we have to meet the world - so unstable?
To find out, Klein decided to follow her double into a bizarre, uncanny mirror world: one of conspiracy theories, anti-vaxxers and demagogue hucksters, where soft-focus wellness influencers make common cause with fire-breathing far right propagandists (all in the name of protecting 'the children'). In doing so, she lifts the lid on our own culture during this surreal moment in history, as we turn ourselves into polished virtual brands, publicly shame our enemies, watch as deep fakes proliferate and whole nations flip from democracy to something far more sinister.
This is a book for our age and for all of us; a deadly serious dark comedy which invites us to view our reflections in the looking glass. It's for anyone who has lost hours down an internet rabbit hole, who wonders why our politics has become so fatally warped, and who wants a way out of our collective vertigo and back to fighting for what really matters.
A wild ride into the uncanny mirror world of our polarised culture, from the international bestselling author of The Shock Doctrine.
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a 500 year old poem from the Peasant's Rebellion:
" They hang the man and flog the woman who steals the goose from off the Common,
but turn the greater felon loose that steals the Common from the goose!"
That's amazing. There's such a long history of working class/poor people's work, culture, analysis & activism.
And yet here we are 500 years later with people walking among us who are a dozen times richer than the kings of England. And we have people living under the interstate overpass. As I get older, I think I could operate the guillotine.
Thank you for sharing that poem, for perspective. It sounds familiar. Was that the English Peasant's Revolt with Watt Tyler as the leader?
The progressives are still disorganized and giving away their power after all this time? Amazing!
Nope, it's from the enclosures act mid 18thC the peasants revolt was in 1381, the whole poem:
They hang the man and flog the woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
Yet let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.
The law demands that we atone
When we take things we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine.
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law.
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back.
A big difference about conspiracy ‘theories’ nowadays is that people can make big money spreading them on social media. This changes the calculus as to whether it’s worth the effort for someone to put in the work. In the past one had to be very committed to whatever idea it was and publish/mail pamphlets/books or do public speaking etc. Now it’s so easy to reach huge audiences it’s obvious there are people doing it who don’t even believe what they are pedaling. “Give the audience what they want”. Looking at you Alex Jones.
If calculus is the study of continuous change then how can something change the calculus?
Absolutely nailed it. It's disgusting.
And of course, Alex Jones didn't believe a word of the BS that he put out on his show.
Thinking about what I know about human behaviour and habit forming, this explains it more than any educated explanation. Essentially it's whatever is easiest. Back in the day it took effort to be a nutcase. Now it's at the touch of a button and some faceless algo will potentially give you some cash for it.
I think that's part of what she meant by conspiracy theories benefiting the elites. The people who shout the loudest at anti-vaxx/anti-lockdown rallies are being grifted.
The thing is, something IS amiss. People intuit something is wrong with the system, and she nails that too. The fact that there were no protections in place for working people during the lockdowns, there was very little reprieve for Americans at the height and that people just died as a "necessary loss" for the economy, should raise some red flags. This has been a theme of each administration since Reagan.
The sinister agents aren't working behind the scenes, they're bragging about their evil. Their slogan is "Greed is good."
I think this began long before social media on the Web. Back in the 80s I was living in Sacramento and watched Rush Limbaugh (who most people thought was an ignorant, offensive, cowardly blowhard) rise from being the local DJ to being the most powerful voice of the American right wing.
My father was an apolitical farm boy from western Canada whose career was in an office until he retired early at 55. He and my mom traveled during the summers in their RV and he had little to do following his retirement except spend his time listening to talk radio and watching TV, which included many hours of Fox News. I watched him go from someone who paid literally no attention to politics to becoming vehemently right wing. He passed away before Trump's presidency, and I shudder to think how he might have reacted to that. I write this to say that my own personal history includes watching someone I love become gradually brainwashed by right wing propaganda. It clearly can happen to anyone, particularly those with little education or defenses against it. So few people nowadays are educated in critical thinking. We've created a time bomb.
Same with my older brother. I told my Sister in law that I felt like I had lost my Brother the guy who I grew up with was gone.
Because the left would never spread propaganda
The Rush Limbaugh show was created by Roger Ailes. Ailes also created Fox News.
Ailes approached the Nixon admin about creating news programs that would be flown major news stations for broadcast. That way they could control the narrative. It was too expensive.
Rush and Fox News accomplished it.
The Illuminati created Carnegie and Rockefeller Foundations whose minutes contain the planning of World War 1 and 2 in 1905. Norman Dodd was allowed two years of possession of these documents. They wanted to control public mindset. Antony Sutton wrote books on declassified material. Best Enemies Money Can Buy. Japanese Army robbed all the treasures of Asia while Nazi scientists developed technology for the Illuminati to rule Earth. Black Eagle Trust is the financial ruler of the United Nations.
"It's easier to take a flight into fantasy than it is to confront a difficult reality." Reality might require us to do something and we can't have that.
reality requires honesty to navigate it... Honesty requires Honor to keep it on track... And Dishonorable people have no intention of doing any of that hard spiritual work.
Fantasy is more reality than what the most people talk about. People lie and a fantasy Theorie has more truth sometimes init.
@@oleotoleo3414 Do you even know the definitions of the words you're using? You're speaking as if you don't.
The brain cannot distinguish between fact and fantasy... Tell a spooky story and the mind sets a thousand hormones running throughout the body... Fear of something real is the same as fear of something unreal to the mind... Tell people that a horde of murderers is marching on the Southern border, and let the freak show that begins do your unraveling of democracy for you. Hence... Demagogues and the Media madness we're all subject to. @@grayisgood
Isn't that why people believe the just-world fallacy?
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
I haven’t heard Klein in many years. She’s a treasure.
I agree. A very attractive woman
This book was by far the most personal work by Naomi Klein I have read so far. But as I progressed throughout the book the big picture began to emerge and the main idea kinda came into sharper focus. And as she mentioned in this video we are all dealing with the impact of conspiracy culture. For me it’s my auntie who has stepped into the ‘mirror world’.
For me it's my dad @@Smuv_Rivvum
I think you are right about that.
She’s probably too smart and relevant for any algorithm to keep putting her back in your internet pathway. The smarter people are, the smaller their internet presence.
This has upset the tinfoil hat brigade, lol
Yep!
Tinfoil hat brigade is a strawman argument. Klein is working on blind faith in authority and refusing to look at evidence and facts it seems. It is like living in Russia and blindly believing everything Pravda says... She seems to refuse to research any of the subjects she mentions and misses all the evidence and facts as a result. Hard to find any conspiracy theory that has not been proven since we got the Freedom of Information Act in the early 2000s. The fact that so many "nutty theories" have now been proven to be true has led to less trust in authorities and mass media with good cause. USA authorities doubling down on the pandemic lies even though most of the developed world have apologized and several court cases and dozens of peer reviewed studies have shown the truth, adds to the mistrust and I no longer blame anyone who trusts no vaccines or medications. And since those "nutty" theories have been proven so overwhelmingly, I cannot blame people for being climate change skeptics or even flat Earthers...
When regulators and authorities keep doubling down on lies that have been well proven to be lies, it only erodes trust in authorities more and more... If you follow the medical evidence, then it is hard to not point to the CDC, WHO and the NIH as the main source for anti-vaxx sentiments.
A pity Karen Silkwood isn't alive to hear Naomi tell her conspiracies are all bullshit.
@@straightfacts5352 what’s the bet you buy tinfoil by the ton and you adhere to a meat only diet…unvaccinated.
Are you imagining a concerted group of people where perhaps none exists?
I ve known this lady for 30 yrs. I think young people have a really difficult job to imagine back before internet social media use.
One of the reasons, in my mind, that we have huge traction for conspiracy theories is the fact that brilliant individuals the likes of Naomi Klein are getting more and more rare. In North America, our education systems have sank to a low never seen before.
Yuck!
Education is better than ever. We have chosen not to value education, purposefully. We eschew science and facts. This is NOT an education problem, it is a moral problem.
@@billsoderholm3125, We have to agree to disagree!
NK sold out a long time ago.
We need to teach young adults rhetoric and how to think, discern information and follow the facts and evidence.
Maybe if the gov didn’t lie and cover up their actions we COULD trust them. Every time they declassify stuff, we get a new window into the horror.
I can't agree more
That's true, of course, but it does not negate Naomi's point.
@@ConwayBobwhich point does it not negate?
John Ralston Saul (from Canada) was talking about this 20 years ago; and to illustrate the point, he used Government lies about Bovine Spongiform Encephalopy (remember Mad cow? from he *80s* ? ) and the way the government lied about what was happening to save money and prevent public panic. It's interesting to see that nothing has changed, no lessons have been learned.
What precisely did the gov't lie about?
Love this gal. Read Doppelganger and along side that book there is Corruptible by Brian Klaas and Poverty in America by Matthew Desmond. ALL of these books show us what the hell is playing out. It's a mental illness. Power and Greed is at the core of all of it. I wish the mental health industry would call it out, except they are as greedy as the rest.
It’s mental illness, indeed!! 🔥🔥🔥✨
Did you read "Shock Doctrine" and could explain what's the point of the war between Israel & Hamas according to that book?
Unfortunately in our capitalist system, where there is money to be made, their will always be someone to exploit it for themselves.
It's hardly a war. It's a genocide against the native Palestinians. This woman seems to be the female Sam Harris. Talks alot without saying anything.
@@ryang790 Most of us understand what she's saying quite well. Possibly you think she's not saying anything because you struggle to confront difficult realities.
I so admire what you are doing. Thank you. (A former DSOC member, now 68, now living in Alabama and VERY glad to be reminded of counter-neoliberal analysis.)(I have a DSA flag on my porch, and only haven't been shot at because no one down here knows what it is. :)
Anybody looking for some refreshing perspective check out Carl Sagan's A Demon Haunted World. He saw all this coming 25 years ago after Time/Life books on UFOs & Aliens started catching on. I can't even imagine what he'd say about Flat-earthers and Anti-vaxxers...
Thank you Mrs Klein for these eye opening explanations. Just a note to Penguin about the first caption: "destorting", really. There are efficient pieces of software to correct spelling errors before publication you know. 🤭
One issue is that the term "conspiracy theory" now applies to every question that challenges authority or the current mob think view of things. It is now nothing more than a weaponized term used to discredit valid criticism, questions, or caution. Just noting that currency devaluation has, since Roman times, resulted in inflation made me a conspiracy theorist when discussing the Canadian monetary policy of "quantitative easing".
The CIA weaponized the term in the 1960's. With the rise of alternative media, all establishment narratives are being questioned. Probably a good thing but you have to be a bit discerning.
And this is precisely why "it's gone mainstream" - because one day we all woke up in an upside down world where even the slightest potentially critical question (not even yet criticism) was shut down as conspiracy; where mere use of simple terms, such as say, big pharma, could label one a conspiracy theorist. This is how almost any topic, almost any discussion, short of chanting the slogans of media group think propaganda, became a conspiracy theory. This is what she strangely, forgot to mention, and which is the heart of the answer. For someone who strives to cut through the noise, it is bizarre she missed this one.
Absolutely agree
You're not following along blindly here.
Just finished Naomi's new book it connected a lot of dots.
Everyone should be skeptical of official truths. Asking questions and having discussions about a new vaccine or a “mysteriously” blown up pipeline should be the standard practice of a citizen in a democracy. Painting dissidents as conspiracy theorists is a pernicious tactic used by those in power.
Penguin books writing 'destorting' in place of a real word feels like a conspiracy theory gone mainstream.
I am in general agreement with her, but she picks some poor examples.
It's all very well to say that during COVID we could have had kids in schools with good ventilation, but the reality is that it would have taken longer than the pandemic to install the appropriate ventilation everywhere - even assuming the fairy-tale scenario that a vast stockpile of ventilation parts and builders existed in order to do that.
Now it's certainly a good thing to do, but I wonder how many schools and their funders have prioritised fixing their ventilation and other related issues even now.
You're clearly not seeing the forest for the trees
@chriswhyte6367 Thank you for your detailed response perfectly dressed in conspiratorial tone.
Democracy?!?! How do we do that?
Luv how she talks about how our society failed to do the Big & Hard like schools w/proper ventilation. If we r all going to get vaxxed & wear masks 😷 (which I did) Can the govt Also step up and help out w/ventilation for schools when we r boxing 100’s -1000’s of kiddos in a box ?
Why would better ventilation matter in buildings (like schools) which were shut down? The main thing that would have helped was to tell EVERYONE to spend as much time outdoors as possible. This was the OPPOSITE of what propagandists like Naomi were telling people to do at the time. Why? Because Naomi believed in all of the Covid conspiracy theories.
@@danelson78yup, more gatekeeping and not even good at it
@@danelson78 And which conspiracy theories would those be?
When people woke up to how much they are lied to daily by the 'authorities'.
Naomi Klein's timing is always so perfect. She's right on the cusp, the leading edge of the wave, recording what she's seeing, researching, & asking meaningful questions.
I love her insights & how she helps us understand not what we experienced 10 yrs ago but what we're experiencing right in the current moment. She gives us a frame & language to understand our daily realities amidst the chaos of conspiracy theories, lies & rapid change.
You might want to look around the real world for a change. She seems clueless about most of the subjects she mentions in this video. She and you have put your faith into authorities instead of looking at evidence, facts, science, real people and real events... Claiming that blind faith and religious beliefs is "right on the cusp", "the leading edge of the wave" is mind boggling to me...
@@0ooTheMAXXoo0I 100% believe that OP has not put their faith in authority. They are referring to Naomi providing a string in sugar water. I place, or coherent narrative to compare our personal experience to facilitate a more targeted examination of that experience. Naomi Wolfe here is giving us another way to see the head fake .
@@0ooTheMAXXoo0you are exactly right about her solutions though. A "democratically controlled social media" can only be suggested by someone who does not understand the latest technologies.
I mean… yeah Klein is a populist rhetorician. That’s her job (and incidentally it’s part of the problem). She’s not saying anything new or revolutionary here - people who work and study in media/comm have been warning about this stuff for twenty years. They just don’t have book deals.
"How did conspiracies become mainstream?"
Probably by those with power realizing the opportunities they were being given to create them by people who treat them as fundamentally impossible.
The lady who’s wearing a mask in her Prius alone with her 2 dogs thinks others are conspiracy theorists. I already knew that….
Great job on the presentation! Thank you
Wow that was fantastic! Thank you. I’ll be getting your book in short order.
"destorting"? Um... This is from a major publishing house, correct? Education in the UK has clearly been distroyed.
It may be the chemicals in the food and water system, pfas, glyphosate, Nitrogenous fertilers, lead water pipes, and junkfood
Some conspiracies are real. The problem is that people don’t grade information. They just keep watching videos, one after the other, until these beliefs become a core part of who they are.
I just read Slave.Control, it's a short fiction book and what is does really great, is show how not getting the answer leads to so many different theories. That then start building on top of each other. The best thing about it, is that is not about convincing you of anything. Just showing how unacceptable things will start living a life on it's own, as long as authorities don't really care to adress it.
Been a fan of Naomi for a long time. Always insightful.
I think another reason conspiracy theories have gained so much traction is due to religion. People already cling to and believe in fantasy. It’s not based on fact, or science, or even what is seen in reality. So it’s not much of a leap to believe in conspiracies. And it’s also exciting - to concoct these elaborate stories and basically turn reality into some great spy film or something.
Well put. For thousands of years we've believed in gods and devils and angels and all sorts of magical fantasies. It's merely a tiny step to believe in any other kind of dreamworld. Believe what you will, but reality is not up for grabs. You may believe you can fly or that God will protect you or whatever. But, when you step off the edge of that skyscraper the realities of gravity and the effects of you colliding with concrete at 250 miles an hour will brutally and immediately come into play. And that is sadly the human condition. Our fantasies may be the death of us.
You don't believe in any conspiracies? You think pro wrestling was a genuine contest for all those decades before it was revealed not to be?
Excellent comment! I especially like the " turn reality into some great spy film" 🤣😂. You've opened another door... fiction as depicted in films and literature (and other arts) has gotten us used to the fantasy world.
Hard core religious right wingers seem to be more inclined to believe in CT. At least it seems that way to me.
Can you be specific about conspiracy theories . Some are far more credible than others. 9/11 credible . Flat earth not credible
Conspiracies take over because absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I left my family's house for two years, when I cam back they were into the STUPIDEST conspiracies
unbelievable, unfixable, they would need a psychologist to help them through their personality defects
in order to see that they were wrong; that it's ok to not know but have a good idea, a best attempt of understanding
I'm sorry to hear that. Some family and many of my friends now believe the dumbest $hit imaginable. I'm actually not sure what to do because the things they tell me are so ridiculous I now them as extremely ignorant to believe the nonsense. They make no effort to see if the 'theories " make any sense. Oh brother...
The earth is flat, Millennial reign already happened, we are in Satans little season and climate change is created by his minions.
One of the funniest, most dumb, was when the main stream media tried to convince us that COVID , didn't come from a lab, but one of the hundreds of wet markets that have always existed!
.akes more sense to me coming from a wet markets and add in environmental changes, and why would they infect themselves? We had vaccines already in the making due to SARS from bats., @ryang790
Love this gal, forever.
whats with the reverb around 10:00 ???
1:49 Just yesterday I was looking through a beautifully photographed brochure mailed to me about the Redwood trees in California. And at the very end of it, my name is listed as a donor, and that made my day! Nobody else will notice it, but add my name to the list of many others and the ripples will add up!❤.
When things are proven correct over and over again, they tend to become mainstream.
They become mainstream because people are herd animals. All of the things discussed 5 to 10 years ago on the internet became mainstream. Like flat earth. Not as of yet proven correct but has a lot of true believers. People are inundated with information, but unable to weed through it without falling down a rabbit hole.
Like what?
I really worry people are buying homeopathic medicine because they think something couldn't be bunk and also become mainstream.
@@suehowie152 - Say for example: Hunter’s laptop which was said to be Russian misinformation and then it produced the trail to the map of the Biden’s millions in “loans” from foreign governments.
Then there was the lab leak that nobody was allowed to say out loud followed by the virus being tracked back to the lab where it was leaked.
Then there was the whole story about spying on the Trump campaign that turned out to be spying on the Trump campaign.
You could look at MK-Ultra, the Dead Baby project, poisoned alcohol during prohibition, Dalai Lama was a CIA agent, big tobacco knew cigarettes were causing cancer, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and planned obsolescence. But fortunately nobody is lying to us anymore.
@@boxelder9167 There are indeed a lot of conspiracies that sound cool and plausible so long as you don't go judging them critically. It's always best to be extra wary of any conspiracy being sold that gives the reader 'special knowledge' that they can't find elsewhere while also telling them not to trust anyone without the special knowledge.
Like for example, no one peddling the lab leak for profit will tell you to take a detailed look into the timeline of events, investigate the little village where the lab exists or otherwise look outside of their sacred evidence, often justifying major errors with 'well it sounds plausible.'
This was many brilliant insights in very little time!
They never were not mainstream.
Yes, some stuff should not go into private hands, like energy resources, pharmacology, health care, education and comunication tecnologies, they should be seen like oxygen or water, public properties. The way things are with capitalism now is that the rich can just interfere with general interest.
Rich interference with general interest is socialism
@@SOBNo1 you don't even know what you just said. Senseless.
@@jasperchance3382 weird, cos I got it from the last part of your op, brainless
BS. The US government has shown itself to be corrupt & evil. None of the things you listed should be completely controlled by government. They should be regulated, but as lightly as possible. I don’t trust you or other Leftists (you’re obviously a Leftist because only they would be so deceitful or stupid to suggest what you did)
And prisons.
"If influence sways then clout just squats!" Such a put down!
There’s something kind of dark and ironic about asking her to plug your series at the end after the whole first segment focuses on your performative social media doppelgänger
Such cheerful background music for such heavy subject matter
4 words. Lack of public trust
And for legitimate reasons.
@@heinrichzerbe a healthy dose of skepticism is good, but 9/11 Truthers, Moon Landing conspiracy theorist, Holocaust Deniers, climate change deniers, etc, are nothing but a bunch of loons.
Yes, largely the media: Fox News, Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson...
And history telling us why we should not trust governments.
_Erosion_ of public trust, do you mean? For the benefit of vested interests?
This is true ever since businesses stopped put their service or product first, but profit. Because then the media already shift from what is important, to what sells. And then advertisers made it worse, "if you publish that we won't advertise in your media." It's the whole system where everybody is anxious to earn/have enough rather than wondering what is essential/true/important here.
We will are lead to believe that rogues with limited resources can pull off world changing events but people with resources and power would never do that!
You're Penguin. It's 'distorting' not 'destorting'. You're welcome.
Just what I needed. Everyone should hear this. A democratic internet sounds really interesting.
🇨🇱
Let's firs define democracy 🤔
There are becoming way too many stupid people who make the vote meaningless, eve dangerous 😫
Saludos de 🇨🇱
NO LOGO will always be a great reading!
Thanks so much
Love this! Naomi's such a great speaker 👍
What a great clip.
Doppelgänger was a GREAT read. Highly recommend!
Anyone read "Shock Doctrine" and could explain what's the point of the war between Israel & Hamas according to that book?
Part of the thesis of 'Shock Doctrine' is that political & corporate elites manufacture & exploit crises, in order to seize resources & consolidate & expand their power.
It could be argued that the right-wing government in Israel has leapt on the current crisis & will use it an an opportunity to 'depopulate' Gaza & gain greater control over the area. Israel may use 'the right to defend ourselves' as an excuse to seize land in Gaza, & accelerate the settler program that is already underway. The rw govt is also using 'the worst terrorist attack since 911' to funnel $billions from US coffers into the Israeli economy & military.
Klein goes further tho, & says ideas of conquest/destruction are maintained, discussed & expanded upon even when the opportunity to put them into practice hasn't yet presented itself. Then, when the moment is right, political & corporate elites manufacture a crisis in order to put the idea of conquest into action. So wrt Israel-Palestine, extreme Zionists have long discussed forcing Palestinians into exile & taking over Gaza--this 'idea of conquest' was & is openly discussed by extremists in Israel. And it's been revealed that Israeli intel indicated an attack was coming...but the rw govt did nothing to prevent it (in order to facilitate a crisis they could take advantage of). If so, that's Klein's theory of ideas of conquest & manufacturing a crisis. However, there's no concrete evidence yet as to whether Netanyahu's blunder was intentional or unintentional.
The US is also using this crisis for its own geopolitical ends.
Klein also described how states use 'planned misery' to de-pattern & re-pattern societies. It is easy to look at the appalling oppression that Israel has forced on Palestinians for decades (which many name as apartheid) & see how this theory applies. Oppress & control a whole group of people, force them to live in an 'outdoor prison', live generation after generation in poverty...& lo & behold that population takes up armed resistance. Which then becomes the 'crisis' that Israel will exploit to take the land & force Palestinians permanently into Sinai.
I don't necessarily subscribe to all of this, but it's a compelling argument. I particularly take exception to the idea that there's something legitimate about the Hamas terrorist attack--ie longstanding oppression 'causes' terrorism. Terrorism is never legitimate. Attacking & killing civilians is never legitimate--whether it's done by Palestinians, Israel, or the US.
“Capitalist roadkill” is obnoxious catchphrase for the malevolence of the levels of inequality we have achieved. Different strokes for different folks.
The clearest and most insightful thinker about where we are.
Good grief!
@@zazzyz4558are you saying I’m exaggerating? Maybe, but she is very good.
Not only fear is driving belief in conspiratorial ideas. Literal armies of paid trolls as well as computer generated identities (bots) target vulnerable people attempting, often successfully, to brainwash them.
Who says their mainstream?
Just because some people do believe them doesn't mean it's taken over
It’s also a system that, to a diminishing degree, benefit the people at the bottom, though in no way to a fraction of the degree they benefit the people at the top. The benefit of inaction, the psychological’ ‘safety’ of familiarity despite the pitfalls of not changing, are comforting to the marginally comfortable vanishing middle classes, the overtaxed, the lazy, the weak minded, etc. They’re the security blanket of the people too indoctrinated to be afraid of changing the system.
How did conspiracy theories become mainstream??? What an ironic question coming from Penguin who publishes Anne Coulter via Sentinel.
Conspiracies are just a matter of fact. But most of the theories people throw around are absolutely insane. Real conspiracies are usually boring, and at least somewhat logical.
"Don't want to face the consequences of the [environmental and health toxins} because it would threaten their entire business model" - therefore, when the environmental movement (70s/80s) began to be concerned somewhat less about carcinogens, herbicides, heavy metals, whaling, and other local pollution issues (not to mention corporate power in general) and slightly more about a potential global greenhouse effect due to CO2 that could "end all life on earth", it was simply expedient to the greater proportion of "big global business" to go along with this new deflective possibility, which is also potentially the "scarier" - also, very expedient to say the least (doomsdaying is literally in our ancient blood). And that absolutely doesn't need to be a plan by three people at the top. It is simply a little less "close to home", and so it "slides" though a little easier. It is the less bitter and "easier to dodge" pill. No single industry on its own is particularly ruffled (CO2 is released with literally every movement or industry on earth, including electricity production, solar panel manufacture and so on), and there are always plenty of methods to throw some lip-service or a compensatory "carbon scheme" here or there to nullify the populace and do-gooding officials. It is not a gigantic jump to go from there, to the situation of a converging global culture of sternly frowning on (or ridiculing) any science that happens to come along and indicates that the "stuff of life"may no longer appear to be the real "exhaust" of industrialisation.
It is also easier to take a "flight into fantasy" that this single enemy might be the big problem, than face the more "difficult" reality that things are a little (actually a lot) more complex and nuanced. That we indeed face multiple chemical and electrical toxins in our consumption driven world. Also multiple cultural threats as, or even more, serious (i.e. as you rightly point out, social media, the "message of the medium" of smart-phones, AI and algorithm fed "information" directing people into "silos" and so on).
I do see where you are coming from, and I saw things very similarly up until what happened after 2019 (by the way when protesting WEF/G8 in Europe in 2000 and 2001 your book "No Logo" was passed between us ragtag bunch quite a lot). I think everything that is going on (incl neoliberalism that kicked into high gear and has stayed there ever since Friedman's nonsense) is easily explainable as a combination of "business as usual" and expediency/convergence theory, alongside a number of not particularly (or at all) hidden conspiracies between major factions. When by far and above the larger proportion of concentrated powers mutually benefit from a public that has its eyes on the stuff of life (carbon) (or "killer viruses" as of late - see Mathias Desmet) instead of the stuff of death (fill the gap for each particular business, i.e. electrical pollutions, pesticides, noxious food additives, pharma sickness industry, the end of local cottage industry and people not having time in three-income families to garden, loss of social and community capital, and so on), it is in EVERY one of those public and private institutions interests to simply go along with the narrative that is the less nuanced and further from the complex truth of the matter, and the narrative that is all the more easier to get the masses to focus on.
I fully agree with you re the neurological "rewards" of social media. This ALSO is playing into the general inability of people to think outside of their particular algorithm induced silo. I (for example) can't get people within the two most popular "ranges" of thought to consider the macroeconomic realities as revealed by MMT. The most patient and careful logic goes equally nowhere with the so-called Left, as it does with the so-called Right, each being so rigidly confined inside their equally dogmatic religions - both very much on the "right" in terms of what that once meant. Neoliberalism is now ubiquitously accepted as an underlying and unalterable reality of life from all but a very tiny fringe section of public opinion (MMTers).
Well, that's about as much of the daily grind of survival that I can spare to attempt to convey my thoughts to you. I haven't read too much from your "doppleganger" but I would say this much, from the little that I have. I believe you could both learn from each other. I believe that you have been drawn into a silo a little more than you are aware of. If you are willing to seriously consider this possibility, then you could play a big part in the solution.
However, I don't think Wolf would be the best source to go to! For macroeconomics, I'd recommend Stephanie Kelton ("The Deficit Myth: Modern Monetary Theory and the Birth of the People's Economy"), Bill Mitchell, and Thomas Fazi. And for covid, I'd recommend Thomas Fazi's "The Covid Consensus".
All the best. And thanks for "No Logo" all those years ago. Not that you're likely to browse comments here, but who knows.
A few notes: All the resources and environmental damage needed to change all human activities on Earth to renewable energy and transportation is equivalent to about six months of current coal production... That is how wasteful fossil fuels are vs how efficient renewable energy is...
And, no regulations in any country is forcing this change to happen as fast as it is already changing just due to economic reasons. Building new solar and batteries is far cheaper than keeping an existing coal power plant running. And the cost of solar and batteries should drop another 70% within the next decade. Electricity will be too cheap to meter and that is due to efficiency, less environmental destruction , less resources needed.
EVs will be 40% cheaper than combustion vehicles with similar features as soon as the supply chain has caught up in scale which is trending to be in just a few years from now (EVs are mechanically far simpler than combustion vehicles). At that point, no one will want the more expensive to buy, more expensive to run and maintain, combustion vehicles anymore.
Housing and appliances keep getting more efficient, food is created with less and less resources at the same time. USA is one of the worst, but that is also expensive in the long run, so economics will clean up those areas as well... Being less damaging, more efficient also means that it will be cheaper and that will force the current destructive ways to change. Every aspect of human lives will get cleaner due to this transition.... it is not some single aspect that covers up for all that needs to change, several things will lead to many changes and it will happen quicker and quicker as changes build on each other.
I sure as shit changed!
It is fear... Like having a religion to explain what you do not understand. Today change is happening too fast and people feel off balance so they are grasping for a story to explain their fear of change.
a small group do do things tho. and answers to certain questions were readily available till they weren't. however no lie can be proven true. like basically all human history. there's no truth in a story.
Ms Klein, I was at the BPL last night and experienced your talk/book selling event. Thank you for your time. I agree that loops are dangerous. I would love to hear you and Ms Wolf on the stage at the same time. That would be healthy and interesting. People need to make up their own minds about difficult realities.
Fascinating. What a thought provoking video.
I really find this woman to be very important and a thought process in the way she explains issues of our time. Klein should be the model for teachers who's crafting our future leadership and the traps AI "innovators" are setting on humanities for profit from conspiracies. Fakes all of META.
So Guido Fawkes is innocent?
Because they keep coming true
@PenguinBooksUK "destorting reality" - destorting? really? A publishing company can't spell DISTORTING correctly? C'mon guys...
Well, you see sir, in our post modern neoliberal condition, it has become quite chic to offer up a trite and ineffectual critique of capitalism. That's why we've chosen to celebrate the arbitrariness of grammar by distorting the distortion and DE-storting what had previously been considered storted... And George Soros is behind it all! Mua ha ha! 👿
Thank you for this video. Has George Carlin's conspiracy quote been mentioned?
_"How did conspiracy theories take over?"_
Short answer: We let them...
"people who believe in conspiracies are idiots who believe any old rubbish" - Jimmy Savile
There are real conspiracies, or simply destructive patterns of behavior, which are constrained by real world considerations. And yes, some of these have done a lot of harm. Then you have the kinds of overblown BS conspiracy theories that are so popular these days, but are obviously not constrained by considerations of evidence, means, motive, logistical plausibility, etc... The irony is that conspiracy theories often serve the interests of those who already are in positions of wealth and power (the so-called "elites"), and work to oppose new technological or social solutions to old, but often denied or downplayed systemic problems.
Jeffrey and Ghislaine agree.
I’m pretty sure that quote is from “The Art Of War”
yep excellent point, people high up in social structure are protected
Serious question, what are your conflicts of interest if you have any? Other than making a living from writing a book.
Conspiracy theories run rampant on COAST TO COAST AM.
3:37 Don't leave out the cattle production industry.
She is wonderful and I loved her book. Totally, totally enjoyable and informative. She brilliantly described how Trumpism has put us in an irrevrsible downspin. And coupled with climate denalism, the future is bleak.
We are all capitalist roadkill. Unless you are super rich of course.
I agree in principle that the public motivation beneath conspiricism is to find a rationale for doing nothing about complex problems. But what is missing in this discussion is how to dismantle conspiracies. The U.S. flavor of Capitalism in particular (thinking of Herbert Marcuse) is adept at ingesting opposition, making it marketable. Conspiracies likewise attribute opposing “facts” to the conspiracy structure, thus defanging their ability to persuade cultists of the possibility that their beliefs may be wrong. Any corrective modification of social media and communications should envision mechanisms for assigning some sort of truth value. Truth, recall, was at the top of the Internet layer cake model.
The pedant in me wants to write that Penguin, of all “people” should be able to spell “distort” correctly.
Big thanks to my algorithm, for recommending me this video.. I just wish it would be recommend to people who actually believe in conspiracies 😊
You think professional wrestling has been legitimate since its inception?
No?
Maybe you need to watch this video a few more times.
Next you are going to be claiming that the word “pickle” doesn’t appear on any of the pickle jars.
Pity Karen Silkwood isn't alive today to hear being told conspiracies don't exist.
Who said conspiracies don't exist?
@@hilariousname6826 _Whoosh_
Nice try - now try answering the question.@@straightfacts5352
All her sentences are like tautological self-parodies. It reminds me of Peter Cook’s great “Beyond the Fringe” skit about the miner-novelist.
Example?
The conspiracy that climate change denialism is a conspiracy.
I replied to 2 comments ..both appear to have not been processed .... conspiracy theory
I had to get new conspiracy theories because all my old ones became true.
IKR?!
which ones?
Liar. Not a single one of them are true. Go take your psych medication.
Yes, please elaborate
What’s the difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact? About 6 months.
really insightful stuff
The entire generation that grew up on The X Files is now hot for conspiracy theories. It’s a mystery.
I grew up with the X files, and conspiracy theorists (in general) make me think “you watched too much tv”.
Christianity & religion. Thats one major factor.
what a bigot
the algorithm sucks... either mounds of 'similar' shit I'm not interested in, OR videos I've already watched...
I agree with Naomi 99% of the time, including with the content of this video.
But let's be honest Naomi, you sell books (capitalism) on social media (YT), using your personal branding.
Nothing wrong with that, just ironic.
I think you mean hypocritical. Nothing about her actions are ironic.
As for hypocracy, I guess slightly? But if she's using her 'brand' to spread invalueble messages, I don't think it really matters.
Naomi is an inseparable part of the fear culture
LOVE Naomi.
Guys it doesn't look good for Penguin not to be able to spell 'distort'
The internet. Next question.
Vitamin D is a conspiracy?
@@anderskarlsson6532 I have questions. Why did she lie about masks and vaccines working? Why doesn't she know that an Englishman invented the internet? Can you answer those?
IKR?!
We need to look at the audience. Why are they prone to this type of marketing?
You said money was "value-free", when I think you meant it was free of ethics. You said we're in a loop, when I think you meant a feedback loop.
They became "mainstream" when certain groups started calling any idea they didn't like a conspiracy theory.
No, they became "mainstream" when certain groups started calling any idea they DID like, a secret, hidden "truth".
Oh, "certain groups", eh? So The Conspiracy invented conspiracy theories as a mainstream thing?
That explains nothing.
Both of these are true.
@@terri6854then they were found to be absolutely true
@@terri6854The truths are not hidden.