I think that groves shoud be higher, while they are not the most fun it provides the weakest enemy with a soul wich pairs perfectly with de ancestral cript, the only gold card worth playing consistently, + you get the blood grove. Yes you can´t deal damage to all to the ratwolfs but you can use the supply item that deals extra damage to them + 10% chance to get rations, pair that with the antique shelves and you will have tons of hp that scales as the run keeps going. I would say a solid B tier card tied with the cementery since the wolfs don't give good enough loot but the golems do.
Overall I think it's a really good analysis. There are a few tiles that I think should be in different tiers. I think you undervalue tiles with good loot drops (Ruins/Cemetery/Battlefield/Vampire Mansion).. Some builds value high rarity items and those tiles also give higher level gear. I also think that you also undervalue tiles that add bonus mobs or increase low density mob generation (Vampire Mansion/Battlefield/Temporal Beacon/Chrono Crystal). These tiles are very efficient in terms of board space and provide some of the best loot. Here is the google doc I put together with monster item drop data from the configuration file. When I list drop data in my comment I list the item tier followed by the item bonus level. I expect, but am not certain, that the item tier corresponds to item rarity and that the bonus level corresponds to the item level. So (T2/+1) would mean that the mob usually drops rare items at +1 level. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S2KDO4ZHQsavpv3mTZ9XPYyY6kZ_xQnXpQd8WqIDgs/edit?usp=sharing Battlefield/Vampire Mansion: A -> S I value the additional units these provide very highly and I think it's worth it to have them cover nearly every path tile. The Vampire Mages, and Sirens also provide some of the best loot in the game. It's probably worth mentioning that T3 ghost can instantly kill a character and depending on the build might not be worth the risk. I think that's balanced out overall by the fact that T3 ghost can also give extra golden cards including extra Ancestral Crypts for additional lives. Ruins: C -> B/A Ruins are one of the best loot farm tiles in the game (T4/+1). If you look at the configuration files, the only mobs that give better loot are the Flesh golem (T5/+2), Vampire Mage (T4/+2), and Siren (T4/+2). Sirens spawn 1/loop per shipwreck. Vampire Mages spawn 1/battle. and Flesh golems are very dangerous and spawn about1/loop per blood grove. This makes Ruins one of the best tiles for classes who want high quality loot. You can minimize the downsides by spacing them out with one on every other tile and covering them with Hungry Groves. If you use a Forest or thicket to place the Hungry Grove you can avoid placing groves near the ruins and spawning random wolves. Cemetery: B -> A/S Skeletons drop very good loot (T3/+1). It's worse loot than Worms (T4/+1) but they don't require nearly as much setup or space. In terms of damage they do a lot (70% of blood golem damage, or 56% of lich damage) but they don't have any abilities that give them extra damage and I think they are manageable. That puts it in A or even S tier in my opinion. Temporal Beacon: C-> A This is a cheap and efficient enhancement to all your generation nodes. It also has a high range and is pretty much "free" in terms of the space it takes up. The spawned mob is terrible but that mob gets replaced when using Vampire Mansion. This is fantastic for any build that uses Vampire Mansion. Chrono Crystal: C-> B This is useful next to slow-spawning nodes like Ruins, Cemetery, or the Mountain Peak. It's not fancy and requires good placement but it has a place in builds. I put it lower than Temporal Beacon since it can interfere with your other tile placement and you probably won't need both of them. However, it's worth mentioning that they do stack multiplicatively. Oblivion: B -> S It gets rid of automatically placed tiles such as Goblin/Bandit camps and Village? which makes it very useful when you have Forest, Village, and Rocks. As mentioned it's useful to have vs Lich. It's also great to farm Metamorphosis, to adjust builds and to fix random mistakes and misclicks. It's also the only card that can be useful after you have a full board due to it's synergy with the Blissful Ignorance trait. It's not strictly necessary but I don't see a good reason to go without it since it's so useful and you can turn extra into Metamorphosis for supply items for end-game progression. Arsenal: C -> A By default you have 400% (4x1.00) worth of stats. An Arsenal turns that into 425% (5x0.85). That's not fantastic but it's not bad either. It's not always the best choice since it adds another gear slot to manage, and it spreads out your stats. However you get one new stat type and you get more overall static points. For Necromancer since you can get a maximum of +1 Skeletons per item it gives that particular stat a higher than normal maximum. Rogues also get a 10% stat bonus for any effect for each equipped item with the same effect so that helps counter the 15% penalty from Arsenal. I think it's often worth consideration since it's main alternative, Ancestral Crypt, just gives a bit of an HP buffer and doesn't provide any health sustain or damage. Rock: A-> B This is not bad early on but later on it just doesn't provide enough life to be worth it. I could see it in A tier just because because there are not a lot of other options. If you are in Act 3/4 and have a few Antique Shelfs, Old Scars, or Unseen Care then it's not going to be doing much for you. That said, I think it's worth using a few to make a single mountain peak later on just because the Harpy's are nice to have and hitting the mountain peak with spare Oblivions is a good source of Metamorphosis. Blood Grove: A -> B The golem is one of the most dangerous enemies in the game and should be placed with caution. These things do about as much damage as a boss (80% of lich damage) and have 3 different abilities that increase the damage they deal in a fight. If you get 2 or more they can be more dangerous than a boss fight. It drops the best non-boss loot in the game but this is one mob that I do not think is worth the risk and that bumps it down to B tier. I think it's only worth using for bosses and ruins because when you use it for that, you limit the number of tiles it covers and minimize the number of golems that spawn. Beacon: C -> B/C Like Blood Grove this can be used as a 1 of to just cover the boss tile. The boss does not get the attack speed bonus and it lets you benefit from Brass Candlestick on boss fights for 5% increased damage. Later on, it's probably better to replace the Brass Candlestick with an Old Painting however it's a nice small boost until you get duplicate Old Paintings. I think that this has a place at the bottom of B tier or high C tier since it has a decently useful niche.
Hey! The UA-cam spam filter put this into spam because of the Google drive link, sorry I didn't see this earlier! This post is amazing and so thorough that I'll have to read it tomorrow because it's super late here and I'm falling asleep LOL! Will read in full and respond tomorrow, sorry it got knocked into spam!
Honestly, Oblivion is the best card imo. You can nuke the A village? tiles when you play rogue or warrior and annoying things like goblin camps or if you are low hp and a few tiles away from the campfire and there is an extremely hard fight next (like a flesh golen + a harpy + a vampire) you can nuke it too.
Its hard to say. I get that it feels really good when you can put it to good use or it saves you a run. But with these kind of things you have to ask yourself if you would have even gotten into this situation if you werent running it in the first place. Its a card that you draw and just hold in your hand for a long time. A card that could have been another forrest or River or spider spawner, which would have generated a lot of value the entire time oblivion is just sitting there doing nothing. I personally dont like it that much.
@@skipp3252 Maybe it's because I'm bad but I love using it if I'm low HP but near the campfire and there is a hard fight just in front of me. As I said I also love using it with the A village? tiles specially when playing Rogue or Warrior because at midgame the wooden warriors are one of the biggest threats. And also because I absolutely hate the goblin camps
Something I also use it for, is Necromancer. I use regular forests as often as possible in random places while I create my thicket/dunes/river setup, to spawn as many A Village?'s as possible for free items and exp, then oblivion them later to free up the space.
@@AlexanderCoccia Yeah, good debuffer for Lich, can destroy some undesirables like Goblins and Bandits when you don't wanna face them (it is annoying when you get a good equip and a bandit just...poofs it). Can be saved as a backup card. Cann give you a Hungry Grove by deleting a Grove. A card which you very much strategie as to what you want to erase to give you an advantage
I think rock is actualy C, if not trash. Ancestral Crypt does literally the same thing as rock, except it stacks for the entire run and not for as long as you have tiles, takes up only one tile so you can spam more forests and doesn't spawn anything harmful. Rock is also eventually replaceable with camp supplies. Road Lantern is a pretty decent carry for like new players, I'd say it's B, without maxed out camp and all the supplies it can let you spam tons of monsters without getting yourself killed with overconfidence, 3 monsters in a tile is MUCH easier than 4. Zero Milestone shouldn't be too bad? I should test it but in theory you can place it on the furthest tile from camp, making nearby enemies weaker so you can make something there that would usually kill you (like chrono crystals and vampire mansions buffing graveyards), then camp's crossbow lads will compensate the buff on camp's side. Oblivion is kinda good tbh, since I'm braindead I forget about bandits every second run and this card allows me to actually play the game without retreating every second run, obvious S. Temporal Beacon sounds like a nice idea with the Warrior? The dawn blade perk, or whatever it was, is pretty neat and this card will trigger it more often. Also is a poor man's Chrono Crystal, if you want even more spiders. I should probably check out if it affects regen since it says it regens X per *second*, if it does then it's must have for warrior. Grove is like A tier card. Why? Ancestral Crypt. I think the wolves spam is easiest source of souls for the Crypt. Swamp is neat if you are feeling like your life is a bit too long and are spamming Sirens all over the loop, these nasty creatures have a TON of regen and with swamps they just get drained instead. I think wolves actually have a decent regen too, so forcing them to fight in swamps might be a good idea. This tile is a lantern for the mentally deranged - exploding mosquitos will make fights against tons of spiders and vampires easier by literally killing them. Mosquitos themselves seem to have good loot as well. It can also literally kill you. S tier (or at least B) Chrono Crystals are at least A imo, get this thing and spider cocoon on the first loop and you can fill 3 tiles with 4 enemies already. That's potentially 12 new cards! Without it you'll be progressing through early game muuuuch slower. It practically doubles the "amount" of cards in early game (late game you may be slow enough for all the cards to spawn to their full potential anyway). Ruins are great for resource farming. If you get the ranged deflection perk - it's also a damage source, if you don't - place them under chrono'd spiders and get free resources worm-free. Alternatively, the loot from worms is comparable to skeletons, if not better... if they actually die. Seriously, the escape mechanic should be nerfed, it's so annoying. At least drop something lol. Cemetery could be S ngl. The loot these guys drop is insane, it can carry you for two loops after you get it. They do pack a punch, I often surround them with blood groves and occasionally with lanterns so I don't get smacked by 4 angry bone guys (I don't really have many supplies). Otherwise - spiders for cards, skeletons for gear.
@@AlexanderCoccia It's good for the rogue in which you get no loot that the outpost will take from you. So in rogue runs it's useful and probably A.. maybe not quite S. In the other two runs, it's far lower.
Since chapter 3 , I never used rock anymore. Crypt always gave me a huge scale of hp from spamming the grove card and early reed plays. I'd give Oblivion an A tier. When I got nothing to obliviate , I use them to farm metamorphs by reverting a cluster of Town and back again. Groves is S for me , esp since I always run with the Crypt golden card. Those wolves are easy to deal with in early loops , just place them near your watchtower raidius .Besides the bloodgrove synergy , it's a card that synergizes well with your 3 camp tools, namely the Skinner's Knife (which nakes you even kill them easily , and gives ration) , Forester's axe and antique shelf (since you're getting 2 reliable resources each time, you get more hp)
I agree. Rocks are only useful in chapter 1 and 2. Crypt +Groves for the Necro are OP. Groves are the way to go with the necromancer. However, for the spider cocoon, it's a C tier for the Necro. They evade every attack and spawn very fast. By loop 5 you will be getting 4 consistent spiders with each cocoon, and they drop horrible loot. If you go with an optimized deck with suburbs for the necro, spider cocoons are considered trash tier. They ended my run 3 separate times. when I removed them, I had a much easier time.
Honestly, I don't know why inf runs are considered not normal runs. I divide this game into two sections, 1) the path to beating act 4 regularly, which is divided into Act 1 and 2(because if you know how to play the game, you don't need more than one fight to beat act 1 and not too many runs of 1 to beat act 2), beating Act 3(which takes more grinding), and first time beating Act 4(the bulk of the grinding), and 2) inf runs. I think inf runs IS the bulk of the game time spent, even if its you not actually doing much in inf runs. I also think that this tier list is better served specifically for the classes played and if you are on Pre-Act 4 win to Post-Act 4 win. For example, Outpost can be very helpful for bosses that need just a smigge more help. I used the outpost to beat the Act 4 boss the first time. If I am rogue, I have to play with ruins, groves, and I am not inf-ing spider cacoon. And I always need arsenal if I am doing infs because that magic hp is essential in the early game, even if it hurts later on. Also, I don't use rocks very much. Sometimes on warrior, sometimes on necro, never ever on rogue. My point is, it might be better to do a tier list for each and for pre-Act 4 and post-act 4.
All great points, thanks for this awesome comment. I agree, I was very general here, but at the same time this was meant to be a fun and laid back kind of video. I'll consider what you've said to perhaps improve on future videos
In a couple of weeks dude, your videos become my most fav to watch from my subscription list. Thanx man! Agree with your tier list 99% like. Most if not all low tier list cards could be improved tremendously if they add extra iteration with them. Why not connect Battlefield with Cementary. Kinda obvious --> Ghouls. Let's say you could collect their fingers/heads and exchange them for different materials in the next compatible field you passed by. This way you could build the loop more suitable to whatever resource you need. Building tiles combos is one of the more (if not the most) enjoyable things that this game has to offer.
Lol thanks, you're the best! I'm happy that you're here!! And I agree about modifying some of the cards to improve the game. Your idea around cemetery is a good one! Changes like that will really help to shake things up 😃
Spider cocoon is such a good card. The card draw, quick xp, and ability to flood a tile with mobs fast all in one card is just crazy. It pushes orb of expansion farming to the next level too when you couple it with mansion/bookery/tower for 5 enemy fights every loop. It also pushes out shit tier mobs like the scorch wurm by overcrowding the tile fast. I'll be surprised if they don't nerf the spawn rate to every 2 days. Either that or incorporate some debuffs to it like the webbing effects you on following tile as well, or cocoons right next to each other spawn queens that poison you. Right now its just way too OP.
Overcrowding Ruins and Cemetaries with Spiders is one of my favourite strategies for farming materials and supply drops while avoiding swarms of dangerous enemies.
I mostly agree with this, particularly I 100% agree with your A tier and Trash tier ;) But I really think you're sleeping on Outpost for Rogue (though it's trash for Warrior and Necro), and Arsenal is still a mathematical increase in overall power, being 4.25 items' worth of power rather than 4, and I find the magic shield from the amulet extremely valuable to my rogue's sustain. I'm generally reasonably happy with both Arsenal and Crypt. And the overall utility of Obliv makes it high A-tier for me, it's a card I don't always need at any given moment, but I *never* exclude from a build. Great video!
Great video my dude. This game came out of no where and hooked me in. Then a I stumbled on your videos and been hooked. You are very informative but make it interesting while you do it. Need to catch you on twitch soon.
@@AlexanderCoccia The potential of where this game can grow is insane. I hope the dev's keep updating it. And if this game keeps growing so will you. Just dropped a twitch prime sub on you. keep up the great vids!!!
Arsenal 15% penalty without arsenal 4 slots 4*100% value = 400 with arsenal 5 slots 5*85% value = 425 since you get one more item that also gives you stats and especially different stats i think it´s worth
having one more item slots also increases the variety of drops wich significantly decreases the chance of getting items and stats that you want so your math is skewed. yes the inate stat of those items are kinda fun but the one who beneffits most is the rogue due to the magic hp, the other two are kinda meh.
@@UnNormieCualquiera i kind of disagree because the shield that the necro gets can have stats like skeleton level on them so i don't think that this is useless/bad And the warrior gets stats that can benefit a counter build Overall you get more options and at least in my mind i don't see why this would be so bad Yes the other golden card gives you a free revive and in theory endless bonus hp this is of course pretty strong too no doubt about that
@@Argo257 I didn't say the stats are bad or useless, not at all, it's just that they are not the best nor the most fun, well retaliation is kinda fun but you can have by with supply items. Maybe it's just that i have bad luck but ussually when i get arsenal the items end up being too weak or underleveld so i don't end up feeling like i'm stonger than i would be without it.
Yeah Outpost is a mainly Rogue car, it's alright for the Knight but Necro has an anit-synergy with it so it's a fun thing to discover as you play where you switch from the Rogue and just repeat the same set and run across it. It's like a clear plot
I disagree with a lot of your placements and reasoning, but I think its interesting how this tier list and my opinion on it mostly reflect a difference in playstyle. As someone who almost never plays warrior, rock got absolutely no value for me for example.. And since I play mostly rogue, I see Arsenal as the most important gold card and find great value in outposts. And I could probably go on for a while here but I see how others could see it differently again depending on how you approach your runs.
Yeah absolutely! That's the whole point of something like this. It's not about being right but rather about discussion and taking a deeper look at the cards.
Most of the card value will be affected by your fav class, mine is also rogue and also disagree with his placement. I think the game need more class also for helping some of the useless card in the game
Wheat fields are great if you are farming up orbs of evolution. You don't even need to take villages with them since you spawn village(?) with thicket spamming. They immediately become overgrown fields.
I'm not at my PC and I can't quite remember exactly, but I think you have to take town with wheat field? I don't think it will let you just take the wheat field. Might be wrong
They can't give you orbs of evolution since scarecrows are artificial enemies, but they can give you orbs of crafting though they don't have a good drop rate, instead you can get the obnoxious orb of unity with the overgrown fields, and paired with the village? they you can also farm orbs of crating without the actual village. Until you get alchemy and then they turn irrelevant.
I would like to argue that Arsenal is also good for Necromancer, because that's one more piece of equipment that can potentially say "max skeletons" on it who doesn't want 9 skeletons on your 300% attack speed river/forest expedition?
Yeah, but it's only good with rougue, plus it has a low droprate so it will take a couple loops before you can set them up. That's why i also agree with Alex here in that they should change the area of effect for a regular 1 tile square like the vampire mansion.
A few counter-arguments: -Blood Grove is what spawns your Blood Golems and stuns your character. The -15%hp threshold to enemies is not worth the BGs unless you are overscaling--in which case you don't need the added kill threshold. -Skeletons have the highest loot pool for un-synergized cards in the game. They drop higher level and rarity items than Chests. They are an S-tier for me because they are SO CRUCIAL in getting items over your loop level at the start of each loop for Warrior/Necromancer. They're trash for Rogue though, since he gets over-leveled loot at campfires anyways. -Ruins have the second highest loot pool, and actually do a good job justifying the existence of Blood Grove which prevents their resurrection trait. A-tier for me. -Oblivion removes the counter-tiles that develop for each class, it's a must-have and an S-tier for forest villages alone on Rogue/Warrior -Swamps have an excellent synergy with Vampire Villages, turning their Vampirism into self-damage. Critical for greedy early Necromancer loops since you have some Magic HP to absorb initial damage. I'd give them a B tier. -Suburbs is kind of trash because the level scaling algorithm is so high. You'll realistically only get 4 traits by CH4 final fight with or without Suburbs. I almost never use them. -Rocks are low B tier for me. The Max HP gains are VERY small compared to the risk of Goblin Camps. They require a lot of Oblivion to keep in control and you can get 3 or 4 hundred max HP per Antique Shelf in Chapter 4 just fine. Rocks are only good for those low expedition runs where you don't have time to replace them.
A lot of amazing points here, wow, thanks for taking the time to add this to the discussion! I agree with a lot of this, especially your points on suburbs. The scaling is pretty insane.
Oblivion is a card you just always have in your deck, it feels like tool more than anything and I think maybe another tool-like card could be fun in the game (maybe something that relocates tiles instead of deleting them) It's a must have but it's not useful 100% of the times it drops and it isn't fun to use, it's like a basic action so necessity God-tier, usability and general fun of play low B-tier for me. It could be an separate ability you would sacrifice cards to use? burn three cards to delete a tile, would give forests and stones a use except being exchanged for mountains and trinkets
Until you start building more supply items, then it's not as good in my opinion, since it has a low drop rate, it is nice to have for the boses specially, but i still try to build my decks as tight as possible to avoid delaying the build.
Arsenal is quite good for Necromancer and Rogue. Because the rogue gets a 10% bonus for every item with the same stat, the extra item is quite valuable. Also Energyshield is very good for sustain. And for the Necromancer one of the most important stats, +1 max skeletons, isn't effected by the -15%. I agree that it is c or trash tier for knight, but definitely A to S tier for the rest.
1:20 - "Even if you're a rogue it barely has any impact because your magic hp". Well, you don't if you're running the crypt. Only get magic hp if you take arsenal. Which might be why you're undervaluing the card. Arsenal doesn't just give you more stats, it gives you stats the class doesn't normally have access to. Edit: BTW! Alex is awesome! Don't take my criticism to mean he isn't. This guys definitely knows his stuff and I highly recommend his twitch streams!
I wouldn't mind seeing some hard numbers on that. It is subjective, but I've never had a run where that extra life made the difference from crypt. I'm either losing or I'm winning. While the extra +1 max skeleton has come in clutch plenty of times. Especially with the trait that splits your damage among your skeletons, effectively giving you extra hp/sustain. Even for general stat builds that are influenced by the % penalty. You normally have 4 items, now you have 5. That's 25% more of that given stat. Even if you then decrease them all by 15%, it is a net mathematical gain. And I definitely value skeleton level or critical hit chance over an extra life.
@@AlexanderCoccia imo, you're undervaluing their benefit to the beginner players, since by the point they upgraded smith they didn't reach crypt/necromancer class yet and it's really handy for 1st and 2nd chapters. it's like with Spider Cocoon- really beneficial for noob approach and some easy-going strategies, but no more than that.
Lol fair enough! That makes sense. I just see so many people defaulting to Arsenal because they see and extra item slot and they ignore the negative elements of it, which aren't insignificant
@@AlexanderCoccia I agree. If you aren't building correctly, it'll definitely hurt you more than help. I'd say the crypt is probably the lowest skill floor and a fantastic choice for beginner/intermediate play.
Great Vid. Your comments on the golden cards are right. Feel the same. So i wonder, we have 2 inventory slots, we cants use. Belt and arm. i know, it could be used for new classes. I didnt like limitations like outpost. But if they add MORE CARDS to the game. i think it will work with very specific cards / items ;). There are limitless oportunities ;).
You are heavily undervaluing ruins and I'll tell you why. Everything full of ruins and the 60% reflect perk helps you kill stuff a lot faster especially bosses, the "helping" worms do a lot of damage and when you reflect it you wreck the monsters/bosses in a blink.
1:20 I'm sure this has been pointed out, but if you're running Ancestral Crypt as a Rogue, it has a huge negative impact... you will not have magic HP, since you need the Amulet for that, which the Rogue only gets from Arsenal, and you will lose the max HP from armor. Ancestral Crypt is really good for the Necro, but for the other two classes it is trash.
Another synergy of Battlefield card is that it combos with river and transforms into a shipwreck on contact- imo kind of high risk-low reward situation. In pragmatical view- Syrens generated from it are probably the strongest mobs you can encounter which give you only living fragments as resource (in my view they deserve to be tagged as magical mob at least, so they could have a chance to drop astral fragments- way too few enemies dropping astral orbs, which hurts immensely as it's a required resource to unlock alchemy lab) and random (as far as i experienced) loot. it's not really worth replacing a chance to encounter mimics with dangerous regular fights against them.
On paper, Arsenal should be a 6% increase in total stats though. Yes, 15% penalty, but a 25% increase in the total number of items. 100% agree on book.
@@margenov 5 items at 85% vs 4 items at 100% is roughly 6% bonus in favor of arsenal. Agreed though, rounding can push the effective penalty much much higher and erase any bonus/actual penalty.
1:25 You cant have magic HP on Rogue with the Ancestral Crypt, I think so. I tried Ancestral Crypt now a few times in every Chapter and I get obliterated on every damn run. I tried running Rogue with it and spamming Groves + Cemeterys with Vampires if I'm not overwhelmed. But those 3 + Spiders and I just cant take Loop 3. Especially because the boss spawns so early with my Suburbs. Maybe I have to grind Chapter 3 for a bit
That's an easy fix, you need watch towers + skinner's knife(supply +dmg to ratwolfs) and put the groves beside the campfire, that way the crossbowmen will obliterate the mobs before they can do much to you while you farm max HP. if you're in act 4 you WANT to spawn the boss early though and don't place too many cementeries, the skeletons can overwhelm you quite easily since they have crap ton of durability plus the reanimation.
I think you should have split rocks, forests and desserts into their separate cards and put the low tier ones in the trash tier, there is almost no reason to play them unless you are burning through cards on the last loop before the boss and you either just let them expire or exchange them for better cards. Should they be in the game? Absolutely, it's a really cool mechanic. Are they useful? Almost not at all
I am using your Magic damage build and River+ Dunes only (no forest)~ it is slow at the beginning, but now its 69 loops! still going~ XD I think I crack the game! (not cheating like no enemy)
I'd rate Groves slightly higher once you have crossbow towers. Guess it depends what you want Crossbowmen to help with, maybe there are better options. Groves are at least great in early/mid game farming for lumber and rations.
Groves are amazing in late game to farm hp during runs as well, since ratwolf's have souls, while spiders don't and other enemies get a lot tougher really quick.
Hello, one question I had, if you take the 'Supplies' trait, can you take more resources home and go over the cap of the resource limit in the expedition or does it still respect the cap?
I tested it last week, it still respects the cap. The cap is more like a cap on resource-generation. It doesn't care how much you got in your inventory
@@leonardosternberg5093 Yeah it's not the best, but not the worst, but decreasing the penalty for dying is kinda nice if there's nothing better to take.
I like the spider nest but I think you love it too much lol. I think it should be A tier. I think rock/mountain should be B since it doesn't scale as well. I think grove should be B tier. Those are the main ones I disagree with. I do like river the best I think it would be cool if more cards worked like that. Make the game more about planning where to place tiles in advance also make bridges have trolls under them would be nice :)
The more different cards can interact the better I think. I mean it would be cool if burning forests would spread every day if they were adjacent to other forests and if you could create a lake by causing the river to spiral into a 3x3 or something. There are a lot of cool things like that they could do. I hope they do in the future.
I agree that spider nests should be A tier- spiders don't synergize with battlefields (soulless) and Crypt at all, only give living fragments (the most common orb parts, since majority of enemies are living anyways). however it's benefits are really good for beginners, which shouldn't be ignored either.
As for the rocks, it would be nice to see more synergies with them to promote their usage in late game (as in, discovering new combos and more fun interactions aside from straightforward "build peak and and surround it with rocks/mountains" approach) it should have more stuff to compensate for annoying goblins.
I find the river obnoxious as all hell to use. If it wasn’t so powerful, I would never touch the thing the way it’s currently implemented. Except maybe to spawn the cool enemies you can get from it.
Meadow doesn't scale, so it's kind of trash. Treasury suffers in that you can't really plan rivers around it very well and it only gives a handful of resources, after which you have to deal with gargoyles and then it's a wasted spot on the board. With oblivion it can help you get a few resources but almost all decks after you've beaten the game, do not have treasury in them. The only reason I put the beacons in a deck is when fighting the secret boss and you need the three beacons, blood grove, battlefield, and say, chrono crystals.
I believe Groves are atleast A tier to be honest. It spawns pretty often and they have soul so you can easily farm max hp with Ancestral Crypt. Yeah it doesnt spawn as often as spiders but the problem is spiders don't have souls. Interesting video tho, I mostly agree with everything else
Ancestral Crypt doesn't increase max hp, it just heals 3 hp. It's good for necro because it doesn't have any downside. It's only good for everyone else if you have enough supplies to make up for the loss of max hp from equipments. Edit: I was wrong, it does. But you have to kill the creatures with soul yourself, if crossbowmen from the camp killed them, you don't get the max hp bonus.
@@greydragon8973 Ok, I tried it in an expedition without hp increasing traits and supplies, and it does indeed increase max hp. But you have to kill the creatures yourself. I was confused because sometimes my crossbowmen from the camp killed the creature with a soul and didn't get the max hp. So, don't do that if you want to farm the max hp. The first time I read that ancestral crypt increase max hp they suggest farming for the max hp by placing spawn tiles near the camp, that doesn't work because my crossbowmen killed all the creatures. Since then I just thought it only heals you, but it turns out I just didn't do it properly.
My main issue is with the spider cocoon. I think it's a useless trash tier card in my opinion. spiders have annoying perks, no souls, drop little resources and other cards do their job a lot better (ransacked village is the best one) Also, blood grove is a noob trap. The flesh golem can be a real pain and its loot is not worth it, also it prevents ghosts from spawning (battlefield). better have a battlefield with a chest with a lot of loot and ghosts then a blood golem.
1:20 you said that the downside of Ancestral Crypt doesn't really matter on rogue because you're running magic hp, but you're only running magic hp if you picked Arsenal.
I'm not sure why he ranked them so high. His big thing is to always build vampirism. If you've got massive sustain, your max HP is pretty worthless. Max HP is only useful if you're relying on potions to carry you through because each potion is a percentage of your max hp.
HP is extremely valuable and rocks help you build HP. Also Harpies help to slow the pace of the loop because of how elusive they are. Most people don't have a million count chairs and can't min max vampirism, so having reliable HP is better, therefore rocks are good
@@AlexanderCoccia Even with the million count's chair HP is still extremly valuable since vampirism can only heal proportionate to your damage, wich most of the time will be outpaced by the enemies dps since as you build the road you'll be fighting more and more enemies wich will also be more elusive with their abilities in the later acts, also the campfire heals based on your hp, wich can outpace the monsters damage with the ancestral cript and antique shelves. Also mountain peak + oblivion is a realy good combo to farm "noticable change"
Why would you fuck around with "building health" as a rogue or necro when you could slap down deserts and oneshot everything instead, massively speeding up the game? Spiders don't even have souls and everything that does is a massive pain to deal with in masses. Before chapter 4 when it's less of a pain, why would you even need infinitely scaling hp on maps with limited resources? Crypt is garbage. Also forges synergize very well with necro who always hungers for the perfect loot drop and can deal with the armors easy while villages will actively kill you and are complete trash beyond spawning ghouls. And oblivion is pretty low for something you always pick forever.
Thanks for watching! If you'd like to catch the action live, be sure to come by and say hi on Twitch! www.twitch.tv/alexandercoccia
Hope the Game gets saveable Decks soon. How about a Tierlist for each Hero/Act/Farming maybe?
How about a Supply Tier list?
I think that groves shoud be higher, while they are not the most fun it provides the weakest enemy with a soul wich pairs perfectly with de ancestral cript, the only gold card worth playing consistently, + you get the blood grove. Yes you can´t deal damage to all to the ratwolfs but you can use the supply item that deals extra damage to them + 10% chance to get rations, pair that with the antique shelves and you will have tons of hp that scales as the run keeps going.
I would say a solid B tier card tied with the cementery since the wolfs don't give good enough loot but the golems do.
Overall I think it's a really good analysis. There are a few tiles that I think should be in different tiers. I think you undervalue tiles with good loot drops (Ruins/Cemetery/Battlefield/Vampire Mansion).. Some builds value high rarity items and those tiles also give higher level gear.
I also think that you also undervalue tiles that add bonus mobs or increase low density mob generation (Vampire Mansion/Battlefield/Temporal Beacon/Chrono Crystal). These tiles are very efficient in terms of board space and provide some of the best loot.
Here is the google doc I put together with monster item drop data from the configuration file. When I list drop data in my comment I list the item tier followed by the item bonus level. I expect, but am not certain, that the item tier corresponds to item rarity and that the bonus level corresponds to the item level. So (T2/+1) would mean that the mob usually drops rare items at +1 level.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S2KDO4ZHQsavpv3mTZ9XPYyY6kZ_xQnXpQd8WqIDgs/edit?usp=sharing
Battlefield/Vampire Mansion: A -> S
I value the additional units these provide very highly and I think it's worth it to have them cover nearly every path tile. The Vampire Mages, and Sirens also provide some of the best loot in the game. It's probably worth mentioning that T3 ghost can instantly kill a character and depending on the build might not be worth the risk. I think that's balanced out overall by the fact that T3 ghost can also give extra golden cards including extra Ancestral Crypts for additional lives.
Ruins: C -> B/A
Ruins are one of the best loot farm tiles in the game (T4/+1). If you look at the configuration files, the only mobs that give better loot are the Flesh golem (T5/+2), Vampire Mage (T4/+2), and Siren (T4/+2). Sirens spawn 1/loop per shipwreck. Vampire Mages spawn 1/battle. and Flesh golems are very dangerous and spawn about1/loop per blood grove. This makes Ruins one of the best tiles for classes who want high quality loot. You can minimize the downsides by spacing them out with one on every other tile and covering them with Hungry Groves. If you use a Forest or thicket to place the Hungry Grove you can avoid placing groves near the ruins and spawning random wolves.
Cemetery: B -> A/S
Skeletons drop very good loot (T3/+1). It's worse loot than Worms (T4/+1) but they don't require nearly as much setup or space. In terms of damage they do a lot (70% of blood golem damage, or 56% of lich damage) but they don't have any abilities that give them extra damage and I think they are manageable. That puts it in A or even S tier in my opinion.
Temporal Beacon: C-> A
This is a cheap and efficient enhancement to all your generation nodes. It also has a high range and is pretty much "free" in terms of the space it takes up. The spawned mob is terrible but that mob gets replaced when using Vampire Mansion. This is fantastic for any build that uses Vampire Mansion.
Chrono Crystal: C-> B
This is useful next to slow-spawning nodes like Ruins, Cemetery, or the Mountain Peak. It's not fancy and requires good placement but it has a place in builds. I put it lower than Temporal Beacon since it can interfere with your other tile placement and you probably won't need both of them. However, it's worth mentioning that they do stack multiplicatively.
Oblivion: B -> S
It gets rid of automatically placed tiles such as Goblin/Bandit camps and Village? which makes it very useful when you have Forest, Village, and Rocks. As mentioned it's useful to have vs Lich. It's also great to farm Metamorphosis, to adjust builds and to fix random mistakes and misclicks. It's also the only card that can be useful after you have a full board due to it's synergy with the Blissful Ignorance trait. It's not strictly necessary but I don't see a good reason to go without it since it's so useful and you can turn extra into Metamorphosis for supply items for end-game progression.
Arsenal: C -> A
By default you have 400% (4x1.00) worth of stats. An Arsenal turns that into 425% (5x0.85). That's not fantastic but it's not bad either. It's not always the best choice since it adds another gear slot to manage, and it spreads out your stats. However you get one new stat type and you get more overall static points. For Necromancer since you can get a maximum of +1 Skeletons per item it gives that particular stat a higher than normal maximum. Rogues also get a 10% stat bonus for any effect for each equipped item with the same effect so that helps counter the 15% penalty from Arsenal. I think it's often worth consideration since it's main alternative, Ancestral Crypt, just gives a bit of an HP buffer and doesn't provide any health sustain or damage.
Rock: A-> B
This is not bad early on but later on it just doesn't provide enough life to be worth it. I could see it in A tier just because because there are not a lot of other options. If you are in Act 3/4 and have a few Antique Shelfs, Old Scars, or Unseen Care then it's not going to be doing much for you. That said, I think it's worth using a few to make a single mountain peak later on just because the Harpy's are nice to have and hitting the mountain peak with spare Oblivions is a good source of Metamorphosis.
Blood Grove: A -> B
The golem is one of the most dangerous enemies in the game and should be placed with caution. These things do about as much damage as a boss (80% of lich damage) and have 3 different abilities that increase the damage they deal in a fight. If you get 2 or more they can be more dangerous than a boss fight. It drops the best non-boss loot in the game but this is one mob that I do not think is worth the risk and that bumps it down to B tier. I think it's only worth using for bosses and ruins because when you use it for that, you limit the number of tiles it covers and minimize the number of golems that spawn.
Beacon: C -> B/C
Like Blood Grove this can be used as a 1 of to just cover the boss tile. The boss does not get the attack speed bonus and it lets you benefit from Brass Candlestick on boss fights for 5% increased damage. Later on, it's probably better to replace the Brass Candlestick with an Old Painting however it's a nice small boost until you get duplicate Old Paintings. I think that this has a place at the bottom of B tier or high C tier since it has a decently useful niche.
Hey! The UA-cam spam filter put this into spam because of the Google drive link, sorry I didn't see this earlier! This post is amazing and so thorough that I'll have to read it tomorrow because it's super late here and I'm falling asleep LOL! Will read in full and respond tomorrow, sorry it got knocked into spam!
Honestly, Oblivion is the best card imo. You can nuke the A village? tiles when you play rogue or warrior and annoying things like goblin camps or if you are low hp and a few tiles away from the campfire and there is an extremely hard fight next (like a flesh golen + a harpy + a vampire) you can nuke it too.
Good point! Maybe it should have been higher!!
Its hard to say. I get that it feels really good when you can put it to good use or it saves you a run. But with these kind of things you have to ask yourself if you would have even gotten into this situation if you werent running it in the first place. Its a card that you draw and just hold in your hand for a long time. A card that could have been another forrest or River or spider spawner, which would have generated a lot of value the entire time oblivion is just sitting there doing nothing. I personally dont like it that much.
@@skipp3252 Maybe it's because I'm bad but I love using it if I'm low HP but near the campfire and there is a hard fight just in front of me. As I said I also love using it with the A village? tiles specially when playing Rogue or Warrior because at midgame the wooden warriors are one of the biggest threats. And also because I absolutely hate the goblin camps
Something I also use it for, is Necromancer. I use regular forests as often as possible in random places while I create my thicket/dunes/river setup, to spawn as many A Village?'s as possible for free items and exp, then oblivion them later to free up the space.
@@AlexanderCoccia Yeah, good debuffer for Lich, can destroy some undesirables like Goblins and Bandits when you don't wanna face them (it is annoying when you get a good equip and a bandit just...poofs it).
Can be saved as a backup card.
Cann give you a Hungry Grove by deleting a Grove.
A card which you very much strategie as to what you want to erase to give you an advantage
I love that I found you! This game is so fun and all of your videos are well made and informative, I hope you to see your growth! :)
Lol thank you so much for that, I really appreciate it! I'm glad you're here!!
I think rock is actualy C, if not trash. Ancestral Crypt does literally the same thing as rock, except it stacks for the entire run and not for as long as you have tiles, takes up only one tile so you can spam more forests and doesn't spawn anything harmful. Rock is also eventually replaceable with camp supplies.
Road Lantern is a pretty decent carry for like new players, I'd say it's B, without maxed out camp and all the supplies it can let you spam tons of monsters without getting yourself killed with overconfidence, 3 monsters in a tile is MUCH easier than 4.
Zero Milestone shouldn't be too bad? I should test it but in theory you can place it on the furthest tile from camp, making nearby enemies weaker so you can make something there that would usually kill you (like chrono crystals and vampire mansions buffing graveyards), then camp's crossbow lads will compensate the buff on camp's side.
Oblivion is kinda good tbh, since I'm braindead I forget about bandits every second run and this card allows me to actually play the game without retreating every second run, obvious S.
Temporal Beacon sounds like a nice idea with the Warrior? The dawn blade perk, or whatever it was, is pretty neat and this card will trigger it more often. Also is a poor man's Chrono Crystal, if you want even more spiders. I should probably check out if it affects regen since it says it regens X per *second*, if it does then it's must have for warrior.
Grove is like A tier card. Why? Ancestral Crypt. I think the wolves spam is easiest source of souls for the Crypt.
Swamp is neat if you are feeling like your life is a bit too long and are spamming Sirens all over the loop, these nasty creatures have a TON of regen and with swamps they just get drained instead. I think wolves actually have a decent regen too, so forcing them to fight in swamps might be a good idea. This tile is a lantern for the mentally deranged - exploding mosquitos will make fights against tons of spiders and vampires easier by literally killing them. Mosquitos themselves seem to have good loot as well. It can also literally kill you. S tier (or at least B)
Chrono Crystals are at least A imo, get this thing and spider cocoon on the first loop and you can fill 3 tiles with 4 enemies already. That's potentially 12 new cards! Without it you'll be progressing through early game muuuuch slower. It practically doubles the "amount" of cards in early game (late game you may be slow enough for all the cards to spawn to their full potential anyway).
Ruins are great for resource farming. If you get the ranged deflection perk - it's also a damage source, if you don't - place them under chrono'd spiders and get free resources worm-free. Alternatively, the loot from worms is comparable to skeletons, if not better... if they actually die. Seriously, the escape mechanic should be nerfed, it's so annoying. At least drop something lol.
Cemetery could be S ngl. The loot these guys drop is insane, it can carry you for two loops after you get it. They do pack a punch, I often surround them with blood groves and occasionally with lanterns so I don't get smacked by 4 angry bone guys (I don't really have many supplies). Otherwise - spiders for cards, skeletons for gear.
I wish I could upvote this comment more. Such a good response, love it! Thanks for taking the time for typing such a wonderfully thought out comment!
I like outpost, because those minions serve as cannon fodder while I delete the enemies. Serves me quite well.
lol I'm hearing a lot of love for Outpost.
@@AlexanderCoccia It's good for the rogue in which you get no loot that the outpost will take from you. So in rogue runs it's useful and probably A.. maybe not quite S. In the other two runs, it's far lower.
Since chapter 3 , I never used rock anymore. Crypt always gave me a huge scale of hp from spamming the grove card and early reed plays. I'd give Oblivion an A tier. When I got nothing to obliviate , I use them to farm metamorphs by reverting a cluster of Town and back again.
Groves is S for me , esp since I always run with the Crypt golden card. Those wolves are easy to deal with in early loops , just place them near your watchtower raidius .Besides the bloodgrove synergy , it's a card that synergizes well with your 3 camp tools, namely the Skinner's Knife (which nakes you even kill them easily , and gives ration) , Forester's axe and antique shelf (since you're getting 2 reliable resources each time, you get more hp)
Great points!!
Agree Groves is up there with the spooder
I agree. Rocks are only useful in chapter 1 and 2. Crypt +Groves for the Necro are OP. Groves are the way to go with the necromancer. However, for the spider cocoon, it's a C tier for the Necro. They evade every attack and spawn very fast. By loop 5 you will be getting 4 consistent spiders with each cocoon, and they drop horrible loot. If you go with an optimized deck with suburbs for the necro, spider cocoons are considered trash tier. They ended my run 3 separate times. when I removed them, I had a much easier time.
Honestly, I don't know why inf runs are considered not normal runs. I divide this game into two sections, 1) the path to beating act 4 regularly, which is divided into Act 1 and 2(because if you know how to play the game, you don't need more than one fight to beat act 1 and not too many runs of 1 to beat act 2), beating Act 3(which takes more grinding), and first time beating Act 4(the bulk of the grinding), and 2) inf runs. I think inf runs IS the bulk of the game time spent, even if its you not actually doing much in inf runs.
I also think that this tier list is better served specifically for the classes played and if you are on Pre-Act 4 win to Post-Act 4 win. For example, Outpost can be very helpful for bosses that need just a smigge more help. I used the outpost to beat the Act 4 boss the first time. If I am rogue, I have to play with ruins, groves, and I am not inf-ing spider cacoon. And I always need arsenal if I am doing infs because that magic hp is essential in the early game, even if it hurts later on. Also, I don't use rocks very much. Sometimes on warrior, sometimes on necro, never ever on rogue.
My point is, it might be better to do a tier list for each and for pre-Act 4 and post-act 4.
All great points, thanks for this awesome comment. I agree, I was very general here, but at the same time this was meant to be a fun and laid back kind of video. I'll consider what you've said to perhaps improve on future videos
In a couple of weeks dude, your videos become my most fav to watch from my subscription list. Thanx man! Agree with your tier list 99% like. Most if not all low tier list cards could be improved tremendously if they add extra iteration with them. Why not connect Battlefield with Cementary. Kinda obvious --> Ghouls. Let's say you could collect their fingers/heads and exchange them for different materials in the next compatible field you passed by. This way you could build the loop more suitable to whatever resource you need. Building tiles combos is one of the more (if not the most) enjoyable things that this game has to offer.
Yeah I just joined as well, Alex is dope!
Lol thanks, you're the best! I'm happy that you're here!! And I agree about modifying some of the cards to improve the game. Your idea around cemetery is a good one! Changes like that will really help to shake things up 😃
Glad I found your videos on LH. They're informative and really, really fun!
I'm glad you're enjoying them!!
Spider cocoon is such a good card. The card draw, quick xp, and ability to flood a tile with mobs fast all in one card is just crazy. It pushes orb of expansion farming to the next level too when you couple it with mansion/bookery/tower for 5 enemy fights every loop. It also pushes out shit tier mobs like the scorch wurm by overcrowding the tile fast.
I'll be surprised if they don't nerf the spawn rate to every 2 days. Either that or incorporate some debuffs to it like the webbing effects you on following tile as well, or cocoons right next to each other spawn queens that poison you. Right now its just way too OP.
Lol yeah it's so good. One of my favorite cards!
Overcrowding Ruins and Cemetaries with Spiders is one of my favourite strategies for farming materials and supply drops while avoiding swarms of dangerous enemies.
I mostly agree with this, particularly I 100% agree with your A tier and Trash tier ;)
But I really think you're sleeping on Outpost for Rogue (though it's trash for Warrior and Necro), and Arsenal is still a mathematical increase in overall power, being 4.25 items' worth of power rather than 4, and I find the magic shield from the amulet extremely valuable to my rogue's sustain. I'm generally reasonably happy with both Arsenal and Crypt.
And the overall utility of Obliv makes it high A-tier for me, it's a card I don't always need at any given moment, but I *never* exclude from a build.
Great video!
Thanks and great points! I think the math on the arsenal rounds down and isn't as clean as you think though!
Great video my dude. This game came out of no where and hooked me in. Then a I stumbled on your videos and been hooked. You are very informative but make it interesting while you do it.
Need to catch you on twitch soon.
Thanks so much for those kind words, they mean a lot to me! And yeah the game is very good, I think it took many people by surprise lol 🤣
@@AlexanderCoccia The potential of where this game can grow is insane. I hope the dev's keep updating it. And if this game keeps growing so will you. Just dropped a twitch prime sub on you. keep up the great vids!!!
Wow thank you so much for your support! I really appreciate it 😃
Arsenal 15% penalty
without arsenal 4 slots 4*100% value = 400
with arsenal 5 slots 5*85% value = 425
since you get one more item that also gives you stats and especially different stats i think it´s worth
Fair enough!
having one more item slots also increases the variety of drops wich significantly decreases the chance of getting items and stats that you want so your math is skewed. yes the inate stat of those items are kinda fun but the one who beneffits most is the rogue due to the magic hp, the other two are kinda meh.
@@UnNormieCualquiera i kind of disagree because the shield that the necro gets can have stats like skeleton level on them so i don't think that this is useless/bad
And the warrior gets stats that can benefit a counter build
Overall you get more options and at least in my mind i don't see why this would be so bad
Yes the other golden card gives you a free revive and in theory endless bonus hp this is of course pretty strong too no doubt about that
@@Argo257 I didn't say the stats are bad or useless, not at all, it's just that they are not the best nor the most fun, well retaliation is kinda fun but you can have by with supply items. Maybe it's just that i have bad luck but ussually when i get arsenal the items end up being too weak or underleveld so i don't end up feeling like i'm stonger than i would be without it.
Yeah, Arsenal is incredible. It absolutely enables a different sort of gameplay.
outpost is just tech for rogue since they can't take trophies
Aye!
Yeah Outpost is a mainly Rogue car, it's alright for the Knight but Necro has an anit-synergy with it so it's a fun thing to discover as you play where you switch from the Rogue and just repeat the same set and run across it. It's like a clear plot
I disagree with a lot of your placements and reasoning, but I think its interesting how this tier list and my opinion on it mostly reflect a difference in playstyle. As someone who almost never plays warrior, rock got absolutely no value for me for example.. And since I play mostly rogue, I see Arsenal as the most important gold card and find great value in outposts. And I could probably go on for a while here but I see how others could see it differently again depending on how you approach your runs.
Yeah absolutely! That's the whole point of something like this. It's not about being right but rather about discussion and taking a deeper look at the cards.
Most of the card value will be affected by your fav class, mine is also rogue and also disagree with his placement. I think the game need more class also for helping some of the useless card in the game
Wheat fields are great if you are farming up orbs of evolution. You don't even need to take villages with them since you spawn village(?) with thicket spamming. They immediately become overgrown fields.
I'm not at my PC and I can't quite remember exactly, but I think you have to take town with wheat field? I don't think it will let you just take the wheat field. Might be wrong
@@AlexanderCoccia yeah youre right i didn't see that it automatically selects village for you if you don't pick it yourself
Ah damn that's what I thought lol
They can't give you orbs of evolution since scarecrows are artificial enemies, but they can give you orbs of crafting though they don't have a good drop rate, instead you can get the obnoxious orb of unity with the overgrown fields, and paired with the village? they you can also farm orbs of crating without the actual village. Until you get alchemy and then they turn irrelevant.
I would like to argue that Arsenal is also good for Necromancer, because that's one more piece of equipment that can potentially say "max skeletons" on it
who doesn't want 9 skeletons on your 300% attack speed river/forest expedition?
That's a valid point!
Outpost super good with Rogue, Soldier is free since Rogue gets tokens instead of loot!
Two free meat shields/increased dps for boss fights before you start taking hits
Aye!
Yeah, but it's only good with rougue, plus it has a low droprate so it will take a couple loops before you can set them up. That's why i also agree with Alex here in that they should change the area of effect for a regular 1 tile square like the vampire mansion.
@@UnNormieCualquiera I couldn't agree more!
A few counter-arguments:
-Blood Grove is what spawns your Blood Golems and stuns your character. The -15%hp threshold to enemies is not worth the BGs unless you are overscaling--in which case you don't need the added kill threshold.
-Skeletons have the highest loot pool for un-synergized cards in the game. They drop higher level and rarity items than Chests. They are an S-tier for me because they are SO CRUCIAL in getting items over your loop level at the start of each loop for Warrior/Necromancer. They're trash for Rogue though, since he gets over-leveled loot at campfires anyways.
-Ruins have the second highest loot pool, and actually do a good job justifying the existence of Blood Grove which prevents their resurrection trait. A-tier for me.
-Oblivion removes the counter-tiles that develop for each class, it's a must-have and an S-tier for forest villages alone on Rogue/Warrior
-Swamps have an excellent synergy with Vampire Villages, turning their Vampirism into self-damage. Critical for greedy early Necromancer loops since you have some Magic HP to absorb initial damage. I'd give them a B tier.
-Suburbs is kind of trash because the level scaling algorithm is so high. You'll realistically only get 4 traits by CH4 final fight with or without Suburbs. I almost never use them.
-Rocks are low B tier for me. The Max HP gains are VERY small compared to the risk of Goblin Camps. They require a lot of Oblivion to keep in control and you can get 3 or 4 hundred max HP per Antique Shelf in Chapter 4 just fine. Rocks are only good for those low expedition runs where you don't have time to replace them.
A lot of amazing points here, wow, thanks for taking the time to add this to the discussion! I agree with a lot of this, especially your points on suburbs. The scaling is pretty insane.
Oblivion is a card you just always have in your deck, it feels like tool more than anything and I think maybe another tool-like card could be fun in the game (maybe something that relocates tiles instead of deleting them) It's a must have but it's not useful 100% of the times it drops and it isn't fun to use, it's like a basic action so necessity God-tier, usability and general fun of play low B-tier for me.
It could be an separate ability you would sacrifice cards to use? burn three cards to delete a tile, would give forests and stones a use except being exchanged for mountains and trinkets
Are u guys not awere that outpost does'nt steal loot if u are playing whit rouge ? It's the best card u can get for rouge in my opinion
That's a pretty good point! I agree, I gotta test that a bit more
Until you start building more supply items, then it's not as good in my opinion, since it has a low drop rate, it is nice to have for the boses specially, but i still try to build my decks as tight as possible to avoid delaying the build.
how do you get magic Hp on the rogue without arsenal ??
You can't I don't know what I'm talking about
@@AlexanderCoccia aww man and here i was being hopeful there was something i missed
Lol no I just made a mistake ahahaha
Arsenal is quite good for Necromancer and Rogue.
Because the rogue gets a 10% bonus for every item with the same stat, the extra item is quite valuable. Also Energyshield is very good for sustain.
And for the Necromancer one of the most important stats, +1 max skeletons, isn't effected by the -15%.
I agree that it is c or trash tier for knight, but definitely A to S tier for the rest.
Thanks for this, good points!
On Knight the reflect damage can be really powerful if you build around it
1:20 - "Even if you're a rogue it barely has any impact because your magic hp".
Well, you don't if you're running the crypt. Only get magic hp if you take arsenal. Which might be why you're undervaluing the card. Arsenal doesn't just give you more stats, it gives you stats the class doesn't normally have access to.
Edit: BTW! Alex is awesome! Don't take my criticism to mean he isn't. This guys definitely knows his stuff and I highly recommend his twitch streams!
As I mentioned in the other comment, yes I mispoke and you cannot have magic HP without arsenal. Not undervaluing it though, it's garbage
I wouldn't mind seeing some hard numbers on that. It is subjective, but I've never had a run where that extra life made the difference from crypt. I'm either losing or I'm winning. While the extra +1 max skeleton has come in clutch plenty of times. Especially with the trait that splits your damage among your skeletons, effectively giving you extra hp/sustain.
Even for general stat builds that are influenced by the % penalty. You normally have 4 items, now you have 5. That's 25% more of that given stat. Even if you then decrease them all by 15%, it is a net mathematical gain.
And I definitely value skeleton level or critical hit chance over an extra life.
@@AlexanderCoccia imo, you're undervaluing their benefit to the beginner players, since by the point they upgraded smith they didn't reach crypt/necromancer class yet and it's really handy for 1st and 2nd chapters. it's like with Spider Cocoon- really beneficial for noob approach and some easy-going strategies, but no more than that.
Lol fair enough! That makes sense. I just see so many people defaulting to Arsenal because they see and extra item slot and they ignore the negative elements of it, which aren't insignificant
@@AlexanderCoccia I agree. If you aren't building correctly, it'll definitely hurt you more than help. I'd say the crypt is probably the lowest skill floor and a fantastic choice for beginner/intermediate play.
I have felt similarly about the cards. Nice to see that others feel so too
😃😃😃
Great Vid. Your comments on the golden cards are right. Feel the same. So i wonder, we have 2 inventory slots, we cants use. Belt and arm. i know, it could be used for new classes. I didnt like limitations like outpost. But if they add MORE CARDS to the game. i think it will work with very specific cards / items ;). There are limitless oportunities ;).
I don't think it's an arm or glove, but a quiver for an archer!
@@AlexanderCoccia good idea. this would make more sense. lg
Subscribed! I'd love to see tier lists on the perks and supply items too :)
Thanks for the sub! And yeah, I'm waiting for an update to the game to do some more content :D
You are heavily undervaluing ruins and I'll tell you why. Everything full of ruins and the 60% reflect perk helps you kill stuff a lot faster especially bosses, the "helping" worms do a lot of damage and when you reflect it you wreck the monsters/bosses in a blink.
This is a legit argument and I forgot about that interaction while recording to be honest. I've gotta give that build a legitimate go soon!
1:20 I'm sure this has been pointed out, but if you're running Ancestral Crypt as a Rogue, it has a huge negative impact... you will not have magic HP, since you need the Amulet for that, which the Rogue only gets from Arsenal, and you will lose the max HP from armor. Ancestral Crypt is really good for the Necro, but for the other two classes it is trash.
Yeah its been said, I mispoke completely lol
Ancestral crypt is only rogue card. Depends on what items you run tho
you didn't talk about or mention the witches that come with swamp that give potions
Those were added after this video was recorded in an update :)
Crypt, grove, cemetery, vamp mansion and antique shelfs in you camp and you stack hp like crazy
Aye!
Another synergy of Battlefield card is that it combos with river and transforms into a shipwreck on contact- imo kind of high risk-low reward situation. In pragmatical view- Syrens generated from it are probably the strongest mobs you can encounter which give you only living fragments as resource (in my view they deserve to be tagged as magical mob at least, so they could have a chance to drop astral fragments- way too few enemies dropping astral orbs, which hurts immensely as it's a required resource to unlock alchemy lab) and random (as far as i experienced) loot. it's not really worth replacing a chance to encounter mimics with dangerous regular fights against them.
Yeah great points!! Sirens are pretty crazy but at the end of the day, beatable! Tho they can punish you lol
Idk sirens are awful against nercos. You get into loops with them if your summons don't live long enough to do damage.
On paper, Arsenal should be a 6% increase in total stats though. Yes, 15% penalty, but a 25% increase in the total number of items.
100% agree on book.
Arsenal reduces all the item slots by 15% and rounds down from what I can tell. It's a lot worse than you think.
Yeah the math on it is funny. I believe it rounds down but again, we really don't have any hard data on it
@@AlexanderCoccia Ya, depending on the rounding breakpoints, it can be a pretty bad penalty.
@@margenov 5 items at 85% vs 4 items at 100% is roughly 6% bonus in favor of arsenal. Agreed though, rounding can push the effective penalty much much higher and erase any bonus/actual penalty.
1:25 You cant have magic HP on Rogue with the Ancestral Crypt, I think so. I tried Ancestral Crypt now a few times in every Chapter and I get obliterated on every damn run. I tried running Rogue with it and spamming Groves + Cemeterys with Vampires if I'm not overwhelmed. But those 3 + Spiders and I just cant take Loop 3. Especially because the boss spawns so early with my Suburbs. Maybe I have to grind Chapter 3 for a bit
Yeah, i thought you needed arsenal for magic hp on rogue
Yes you're both right, I misspoke there. I'm wrong in the video
You're right. Magic HP comes from the necklace, which requires arsenal in your deck.
Prime Matter says hello...
I say as if I’ve ever gotten an arsenal from a Prime Matter.
That's an easy fix, you need watch towers + skinner's knife(supply +dmg to ratwolfs) and put the groves beside the campfire, that way the crossbowmen will obliterate the mobs before they can do much to you while you farm max HP. if you're in act 4 you WANT to spawn the boss early though and don't place too many cementeries, the skeletons can overwhelm you quite easily since they have crap ton of durability plus the reanimation.
I once got a village quest on living armour it had 42 hp fml
Lol
I always place forges next to the campfire for this reason so the crossbowmen can kill him easy and you get about 4 pieces of great gear.
@@Rifeprime Never thought of that, great idea
Spider cocoon is my top S class :D
It gave me the White tier Ring full of magic damage!
Yeah I love the spider card lol
I think you should have split rocks, forests and desserts into their separate cards and put the low tier ones in the trash tier, there is almost no reason to play them unless you are burning through cards on the last loop before the boss and you either just let them expire or exchange them for better cards. Should they be in the game? Absolutely, it's a really cool mechanic. Are they useful? Almost not at all
Lol great points, love it
Omg Alex I disagree on a lot of cards but was fun anyway to listen to your opinion. :-) thx for all the good videos
LOL that's the spirit!!
I am using your Magic damage build and River+ Dunes only (no forest)~ it is slow at the beginning, but now its 69 loops! still going~ XD
I think I crack the game! (not cheating like no enemy)
Ahaha nice!
@@AlexanderCoccia 106 Loops~
0.6s in, and I'm already disagreeing.
LOL that's the spirit!!
I'd rate Groves slightly higher once you have crossbow towers. Guess it depends what you want Crossbowmen to help with, maybe there are better options. Groves are at least great in early/mid game farming for lumber and rations.
Yeah good point!
Groves are amazing in late game to farm hp during runs as well, since ratwolf's have souls, while spiders don't and other enemies get a lot tougher really quick.
@@UnNormieCualquiera I totally agree. I gain more life from spamming ratwolfs then from rocks/mountains.
Hello, one question I had, if you take the 'Supplies' trait, can you take more resources home and go over the cap of the resource limit in the expedition or does it still respect the cap?
I tested it last week, it still respects the cap. The cap is more like a cap on resource-generation. It doesn't care how much you got in your inventory
Yeah I just responded to your other comment Leonardo saying the same thing
Thank your for your answers, yeah so the 'Supplies' trait isn't as good as I thought. Was hoping for escaping the grind for expeditions :s
I wish lol
@@leonardosternberg5093 Yeah it's not the best, but not the worst, but decreasing the penalty for dying is kinda nice if there's nothing better to take.
I can't find any videos about a tier list of the powers you can choose upon killing X amount of enemies. mabye a vid on that would be good
Lol good idea!
I like the spider nest but I think you love it too much lol. I think it should be A tier. I think rock/mountain should be B since it doesn't scale as well. I think grove should be B tier. Those are the main ones I disagree with. I do like river the best I think it would be cool if more cards worked like that. Make the game more about planning where to place tiles in advance also make bridges have trolls under them would be nice :)
The more different cards can interact the better I think. I mean it would be cool if burning forests would spread every day if they were adjacent to other forests and if you could create a lake by causing the river to spiral into a 3x3 or something. There are a lot of cool things like that they could do. I hope they do in the future.
DREW WITH THE BIG IDEAS! Burning forests spreading is such an interesting concept!
I agree that spider nests should be A tier- spiders don't synergize with battlefields (soulless) and Crypt at all, only give living fragments (the most common orb parts, since majority of enemies are living anyways). however it's benefits are really good for beginners, which shouldn't be ignored either.
As for the rocks, it would be nice to see more synergies with them to promote their usage in late game (as in, discovering new combos and more fun interactions aside from straightforward "build peak and and surround it with rocks/mountains" approach) it should have more stuff to compensate for annoying goblins.
Had me second guessing myself thinking that Rocket League was running in the background.
I find the river obnoxious as all hell to use. If it wasn’t so powerful, I would never touch the thing the way it’s currently implemented. Except maybe to spawn the cool enemies you can get from it.
Lol really? And here I am loving it lol 🤣
Meadow doesn't scale, so it's kind of trash.
Treasury suffers in that you can't really plan rivers around it very well and it only gives a handful of resources, after which you have to deal with gargoyles and then it's a wasted spot on the board. With oblivion it can help you get a few resources but almost all decks after you've beaten the game, do not have treasury in them.
The only reason I put the beacons in a deck is when fighting the secret boss and you need the three beacons, blood grove, battlefield, and say, chrono crystals.
I believe Groves are atleast A tier to be honest. It spawns pretty often and they have soul so you can easily farm max hp with Ancestral Crypt. Yeah it doesnt spawn as often as spiders but the problem is spiders don't have souls. Interesting video tho, I mostly agree with everything else
Great points! Love it ☺️
Ancestral Crypt doesn't increase max hp, it just heals 3 hp. It's good for necro because it doesn't have any downside. It's only good for everyone else if you have enough supplies to make up for the loss of max hp from equipments.
Edit: I was wrong, it does. But you have to kill the creatures with soul yourself, if crossbowmen from the camp killed them, you don't get the max hp bonus.
@@thebluestyx crypt definitely increases max hp. But only from creatures with souls.
@@greydragon8973 Ok, I tried it in an expedition without hp increasing traits and supplies, and it does indeed increase max hp. But you have to kill the creatures yourself. I was confused because sometimes my crossbowmen from the camp killed the creature with a soul and didn't get the max hp. So, don't do that if you want to farm the max hp. The first time I read that ancestral crypt increase max hp they suggest farming for the max hp by placing spawn tiles near the camp, that doesn't work because my crossbowmen killed all the creatures. Since then I just thought it only heals you, but it turns out I just didn't do it properly.
@@thebluestyx good thing you experimented, i don't know about that interaction
My main issue is with the spider cocoon. I think it's a useless trash tier card in my opinion.
spiders have annoying perks, no souls, drop little resources and other cards do their job a lot better (ransacked village is the best one)
Also, blood grove is a noob trap. The flesh golem can be a real pain and its loot is not worth it, also it prevents ghosts from spawning (battlefield).
better have a battlefield with a chest with a lot of loot and ghosts then a blood golem.
Great points! :D Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I actually kind of agree but I still love those cards I know I might be wrong lol
1:20 you said that the downside of Ancestral Crypt doesn't really matter on rogue because you're running magic hp, but you're only running magic hp if you picked Arsenal.
Yeah I caught that too and was thinking "wtf is he talking about"
Yeah I misspoke there, got called out in an earlier comment
to kill story bosses outpost is S tier for warrior and rouge
Fair enough! Especially for rogue
Why rocks are so good?
I'm not sure why he ranked them so high. His big thing is to always build vampirism. If you've got massive sustain, your max HP is pretty worthless.
Max HP is only useful if you're relying on potions to carry you through because each potion is a percentage of your max hp.
HP is extremely valuable and rocks help you build HP. Also Harpies help to slow the pace of the loop because of how elusive they are. Most people don't have a million count chairs and can't min max vampirism, so having reliable HP is better, therefore rocks are good
@@TuberTugger nice thank you for the feedback
@@AlexanderCoccia Even with the million count's chair HP is still extremly valuable since vampirism can only heal proportionate to your damage, wich most of the time will be outpaced by the enemies dps since as you build the road you'll be fighting more and more enemies wich will also be more elusive with their abilities in the later acts, also the campfire heals based on your hp, wich can outpace the monsters damage with the ancestral cript and antique shelves.
Also mountain peak + oblivion is a realy good combo to farm "noticable change"
Outpost is pretty great on rogue.
Aye!
I think dat was a good job man 👍
Thank you!! ☺️
Bookery should be a gold card
lol maybe! Its damn good, I'll admit :D
Why would you fuck around with "building health" as a rogue or necro when you could slap down deserts and oneshot everything instead, massively speeding up the game?
Spiders don't even have souls and everything that does is a massive pain to deal with in masses. Before chapter 4 when it's less of a pain, why would you even need infinitely scaling hp on maps with limited resources?
Crypt is garbage.
Also forges synergize very well with necro who always hungers for the perfect loot drop and can deal with the armors easy while villages will actively kill you and are complete trash beyond spawning ghouls.
And oblivion is pretty low for something you always pick forever.
Very nice
☺️
just xdddddddddddddddddddd
Lol