what a bummer...u-tube layered a very long commercial FOR the Enneagram right on the beginning of this video, the pollution is in everything and everywhere.
Whoever may read this, I need some help with prayers for my dad who's very sick and in the hospital, family in Christ.I would greatly appreciate this. I love you all, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ✝️🙏🏾
We did the Enneagram in my Biblical counseling class and premarital/marital counseling classes at Tennessee Temple University, of all places. Then I came home and a pastor had the Church go through it on a Wednesday night Bible Study. I always thought it was weird, but never put all of this together.
@@nyhuismanagement8680 2004-2008 I don't remember the Biblical counseling professor's name, but we went through a book by a guy who was pretty left-leaning. I took another one with a lady who started each class with a Rob Bell Nooma video (this was before everyone admitted he was a hack). Both of those started the class with enneagrams. The marital/premarital was an intensive, and Elliot taught that one. Unless I have it mixed up (it's been 10 years and it was a 2 week intensive) Elliot started it with an enmeagram.
@@gregwilliams9 so we were there similar times I was there till 2006. And I was a psych major as well. Of course I was also married and living off campus. I guess I don't remember Elliot using that. Because pretty sure I would have said something....
@@nyhuismanagement8680 It does fit a marital counseling class context, though. Elliot changed A LOT over my time there. I always like him, but he seemed way different once it became obvious Lovett was sticking around. The only ones who didn't were Kemp and Woodruff. I think he was so laid back, they felt more liberty to try stuff they knew would get them fired under the Roberson's minions (a loving term. I still dress like Lee Roberson on special occasions Lol) But! As I said, I could have had it mixed up, it was a 2 week intensive 10 years ago.
This is great stuff. I had no idea about the true evil and unbiblicalness of the enneagram. I was lightly involved with it. My church did a few week seminar about the "personality" version of it a few years ago. We still talk about the types and numbers every now and then. But now I will work to refrain from doing that. Even pondering what you said about the notion of trying to find out personalities and kind of appropriating that into our identity. Youre right, as Christians we are new creations in Jesus!
Rohr uses the Lord’s name in vain often when speaking, rarely (if ever) has a Bible with him, and focuses upon Jungian concepts and the Law of Three more than Scripture. It’s heartbreaking to hear the essential/core teachings of Christianity twisted and reinterpreted by Rohr. Grateful for the work you, Marcia, Midwest Christian Outreach, and others are doing to help churches recognize Rohr’s false teaching.
Ive been pondering that myself too. I think it depends on their level of involvement. Like if they are heavily in this that it seems consuming, maybe approach them somewhat forcefully and tell them of the dangers of this and that it is very unbiblical in nature. On the other hand, if someone is just kinda surface level involved, like maybe they just like talking about the numbers and basics of the "personality" involved, you can gently warn them to stay away from this stuff. Maybe even send them this video ha. Pray about it certainly.
As a young Christian I loved Steven Furtick. Now that I have matured in my faith and have a greater knowledge of scripture I see how wrong he is. Furtick had quoted Richard Rohr several times in books, sermons, social media, etc. He also has adopted his ideology in his own teaching. Look up his Facebook post he recently had to take down. He said coming becoming a Christian doesn't change us, it reveals who we already are. This is identical to Rohr's teaching on the universal Christ.
1:18:45 and the question about self describing personality tests. The Association of Certified Biblical Counselors (ACBC) did a series of podcasts on the Enneagram a couple weeks ago. The first two episodes are similar to much of this video in going into the history and biblical/spiritual problems. The third episode (below) deals more with this question. Marsha is not far off with her response around the 1:25 mark. biblicalcounseling.com/resource-library/podcast-episodes/assessing-christian-use-of-the-enneagram/
Yeah I got interested in the MBTI and looked more deeply into it. What I found was that it is not about personality at all, and it is more about patterns of thinking - how do you take in information, how do you respond to the world, and what are your priorities, and what is your brain not as equipped for. I also found that people do not assess themselves correctly enough to get an answer from a test. I always tested as an NF but I appear to fit more with the INTP pattern. This is because it is a pattern of thinking, not a personality. Personality is fluid, if you ask me. The way you process information and regurgitate it is more rigid.
And she is totally right that all these tests do make it hard to see yourself in a broader way. Like being an INTP makes it okay to be rude or something. It did help me with understanding other people, however, and I was capable of more patience when I realized that my husband might process and express completely differently from me. I also realized how much I have in common with my mother.
I may not be a scholar, I'm a sinner who slowly, yet thankfully is being sanctified, yet even someone like me can see where Richard Rohr is coming from, where he is at, his own words/statements confirm for me that Mr Rohr is not a Christian in any sense of the word as I would understand it. Mat 24: 3-13 and other Scripture send a prophetic warning to the Church of Jesus Christ from more than two millennia ago warning me of false teachers that mimic Mr Rohr's heretical beliefs through his teachings, Jesus warned us to not believe such things. As always it comes down to who are you going to believe. I believe Jesus who as Scripture teaches is the one and only Christ, and the Son of our Father in Heaven and who is currently seated on the Father's right side. I will pray that Mr Rorh will come to know my Lord Jesus' saving Grace and that good will flow from that!
@19:32 "that has been Christianized"......ok so I'm new to this channel, I heard what you said there and I'm going to check if you guys speak out against "christianzed" holidays like Christmas, eastern and even haloween...I hope this channel doesn't act hypocritical when the same argument is applied to their "Christianized holidays"......(im really hoping this channel stands for truth and not hypocrisy)
Hey 👋I have a question. I saw this jewish guy on UA-cam say that Jesus can't be the messiah because if he was born of the Virgin marry and she didn't Descend from David how can he be a Descendant of David if technically Joseph is only his father legally. How would you respond?
Mary IS a descendant of David :) The geneology in the book of Luke is actually Mary's geneology (Luke was a medical doctor so his interest was in the genetic past of Christ). The reason it begins with Joseph is because Mary's father didn't have a male heir, so when she married Joseph he was able to essentially be adopted as his legal son and become Heli's heir. God planned it in this way so that regardless of whether you look at genetic geneology through Mary OR the legal geneology through Joseph you always come back to David! HE thought of everything 😊 Essentially there are three geneologies of Christ as written in the Bible: genetic found in Luke Chapter 3:23-38, Legal found In Matthew chapter 1:1-17, and spiritual found in John chapter 1:1-18 I hope this helps you!!
Psalm 110 is written from the hand of David showing multi persons as God. Jesus clarifies who God is speaking to in Mathew 22:41-45; then Peter Verifies in Acts 2 34-35. Jesus is Lord. Hope that helps🙂.
The true gospel is the good news of the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, it is concerning who Christ is and what He did to save His elect.The gospel includes the how and why, which can only be seen by faith. It is a message that declares how the eternal Son of God came down, took on a body of sinless flesh (John 1:14) as He was born of a virgin (Mat 1:23). He was both God and man in one Person. He was born under the Law to keep and fulfill it (Mat 5:18, Gal 4:4). He did that, not for Himself, but for all those He represented because they could not keep it themselves. The word of God calls these people the elect or His sheep, among several other names. His obedient life also included the part of dying. He took on the sin of His people as both a Substitute and Representative of those people. The Bible said He was "made to be sin" (II Cor 5:21) and the way that was done is by God imputing (legally reckoned or charged to the account of) sin to Christ. That means all the sin of all those people God chose was "laid on Him" (Isaiah 53:6). This sin was legally transferred to His account and He then owned it in such a way to be guilty of it all. God the Father poured out His wrath and hatred toward sin on His Son and had pleasure (Isaiah 53:10) in doing so, in that, He was completely satisfied in Christ as a Sacrifice that met all the demands of His strict Law and inflexible justice. Christ finished the work of paying the penalty of the Law and then said " It is finished" (John 19:30). He secured salvation for all God’s chosen people that would even be born. His resurrection is evidence of the acceptance of His sacrifice to the Father. The combined work of His obedience to the Law and His obedience unto death on the cross was considered establishing righteousness. This is what one of the Old Testament prophets prophesied as "bringing in an everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24) as Christ died effectually and exclusively for those chosen of God before the world began (Eph 1:4). This righteousness is what God imputes to His people in the context of giving the life to believe in Christ. This puts them in a state called "Justification" and as a result they are eternally secure, in Christ. This is the gospel (Rom 1:16-17). All this takes place in such a way to show God as both a God of justice and a Savior. This is how grace reigns through righteousness (Rom 5:21).
Hosea11:9KJV"I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and NOT man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city." Note please that God and man are mutually exclusive categories. Thus if ones God is now or was ever a man. He is not the Lord JEHOVAH.
huh thats weird, could have sworn there was a guy that like raised people from the dead and walked on water which is something only the divine could will
Interesting to see someone so intelligent desperately trying to justify Christmas and Easter. They both do have pagan origins and pagan themes throughout the “celebration” take away December 25th, Christmas trees, Santa Claus, easter bunny’s, Easter eggs then maybe it wont be so bad.
Step 1. Take what Gurdjieff brought and turn it into crap 2. Spread it around 3. People say its cultish and bad .....Yeah ,no shit the corrupted enneagram is an evil thing.
Ok, I had to Stop Listerine @40 minutes in. Who is this Marchia Woman?? She sounds as Guano as the people She is Denigrating! Are You Guys Embarrassed about this Interview? I'm Embarrassed for Listerine to this as far as I have.
Want more content from Cultish? Sign up for Apologia All Access for that, and more! Click the link for more info.
ean.link/bahnsenu
That intro got me, I was worried I clicked the wrong link.
😩😂me too
Me too. I was like, What the heck??? Where is he getting that????
Me too!
😂🤣
Same!
Thank you for this informative presentation. Marcia is very knowledgeable and I thank God for her testimony and bringing her out of new age occultism!
what a bummer...u-tube layered a very long commercial FOR the Enneagram right on the beginning of this video, the pollution is in everything and everywhere.
Whoever may read this, I need some help with prayers for my dad who's very sick and in the hospital, family in Christ.I would greatly appreciate this. I love you all, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ✝️🙏🏾
How’s your dad doing?
@@heyitsme881 Absolutely healthy!!Thank you so much, family💯🙏🏾✝️
We did the Enneagram in my Biblical counseling class and premarital/marital counseling classes at Tennessee Temple University, of all places. Then I came home and a pastor had the Church go through it on a Wednesday night Bible Study. I always thought it was weird, but never put all of this together.
When we're you at Temple? Who taught the class that did this? Also attended Temple and would never have thought that would be taugh
@@nyhuismanagement8680 2004-2008 I don't remember the Biblical counseling professor's name, but we went through a book by a guy who was pretty left-leaning. I took another one with a lady who started each class with a Rob Bell Nooma video (this was before everyone admitted he was a hack). Both of those started the class with enneagrams. The marital/premarital was an intensive, and Elliot taught that one. Unless I have it mixed up (it's been 10 years and it was a 2 week intensive) Elliot started it with an enmeagram.
@@gregwilliams9 so we were there similar times I was there till 2006. And I was a psych major as well. Of course I was also married and living off campus. I guess I don't remember Elliot using that. Because pretty sure I would have said something....
@@nyhuismanagement8680 It does fit a marital counseling class context, though. Elliot changed A LOT over my time there. I always like him, but he seemed way different once it became obvious Lovett was sticking around. The only ones who didn't were Kemp and Woodruff. I think he was so laid back, they felt more liberty to try stuff they knew would get them fired under the Roberson's minions (a loving term. I still dress like Lee Roberson on special occasions Lol)
But! As I said, I could have had it mixed up, it was a 2 week intensive 10 years ago.
I took a personality test once...I tested negative.
😂👍🏻
Is that you Steven Wright.
Judging by this comment I’d say that test must’ve been broken 😏
Hahahaha
This is great stuff. I had no idea about the true evil and unbiblicalness of the enneagram. I was lightly involved with it. My church did a few week seminar about the "personality" version of it a few years ago. We still talk about the types and numbers every now and then. But now I will work to refrain from doing that. Even pondering what you said about the notion of trying to find out personalities and kind of appropriating that into our identity. Youre right, as Christians we are new creations in Jesus!
I love this channel but I’ve searched everywhere and there doesn’t seem to be a part 1 on UA-cam
Maybe it's only on podcast apps?
In the description is a link to part 1😄
@@williamtrotsenburg9821 thank you ☺️
Thank you for this video. God bless
Such a wonderful resource! Thank you all!
Rohr uses the Lord’s name in vain often when speaking, rarely (if ever) has a Bible with him, and focuses upon Jungian concepts and the Law of Three more than Scripture. It’s heartbreaking to hear the essential/core teachings of Christianity twisted and reinterpreted by Rohr. Grateful for the work you, Marcia, Midwest Christian Outreach, and others are doing to help churches recognize Rohr’s false teaching.
Did anyone else get an enneagram ad before watching this video 😂
Amazing information!
My question is how to approach friends involved with this?!
Ive been pondering that myself too. I think it depends on their level of involvement. Like if they are heavily in this that it seems consuming, maybe approach them somewhat forcefully and tell them of the dangers of this and that it is very unbiblical in nature. On the other hand, if someone is just kinda surface level involved, like maybe they just like talking about the numbers and basics of the "personality" involved, you can gently warn them to stay away from this stuff. Maybe even send them this video ha. Pray about it certainly.
I am shocked that UA-cam not only just ran an add for a company using the enneagram but have a banner add for this company below the video!!!
Where can I find the first part
I wish you had the source for the Rohr video
Great podcast! I can't find part one.
What?
As a young Christian I loved Steven Furtick. Now that I have matured in my faith and have a greater knowledge of scripture I see how wrong he is. Furtick had quoted Richard Rohr several times in books, sermons, social media, etc. He also has adopted his ideology in his own teaching. Look up his Facebook post he recently had to take down. He said coming becoming a Christian doesn't change us, it reveals who we already are. This is identical to Rohr's teaching on the universal Christ.
Someone says Mystery and the gnostic detector goes into full force
"Short of shocking for us prudish 'Christians' [perverted little chuckle]"
Uh huh buddy. What were you up to over there?
Did anyone else get an ad for an Enneagram test when they first clicked on the video?
1:18:45 and the question about self describing personality tests. The Association of Certified Biblical Counselors (ACBC) did a series of podcasts on the Enneagram a couple weeks ago. The first two episodes are similar to much of this video in going into the history and biblical/spiritual problems. The third episode (below) deals more with this question. Marsha is not far off with her response around the 1:25 mark.
biblicalcounseling.com/resource-library/podcast-episodes/assessing-christian-use-of-the-enneagram/
I got an enneagram commercial on this video....
My enneagram number is zero because Jesus is my hero
In the opening he's sitting in a diamond, triangle.
@J L triangle, it's masonic and so is diamond
@J L I understand what you mean, but they are Luciferian symbols.
@@joannaferrara5884 geometry doesnt necessarily mean occult lol
Yeah I got interested in the MBTI and looked more deeply into it. What I found was that it is not about personality at all, and it is more about patterns of thinking - how do you take in information, how do you respond to the world, and what are your priorities, and what is your brain not as equipped for. I also found that people do not assess themselves correctly enough to get an answer from a test. I always tested as an NF but I appear to fit more with the INTP pattern. This is because it is a pattern of thinking, not a personality. Personality is fluid, if you ask me. The way you process information and regurgitate it is more rigid.
And she is totally right that all these tests do make it hard to see yourself in a broader way. Like being an INTP makes it okay to be rude or something. It did help me with understanding other people, however, and I was capable of more patience when I realized that my husband might process and express completely differently from me. I also realized how much I have in common with my mother.
Can't find part 1!
I may not be a scholar, I'm a sinner who slowly, yet thankfully is being sanctified, yet even someone like me can see where Richard Rohr is coming from, where he is at, his own words/statements confirm for me that Mr Rohr is not a Christian in any sense of the word as I would understand it. Mat 24: 3-13 and other Scripture send a prophetic warning to the Church of Jesus Christ from more than two millennia ago warning me of false teachers that mimic Mr Rohr's heretical beliefs through his teachings, Jesus warned us to not believe such things. As always it comes down to who are you going to believe. I believe Jesus who as Scripture teaches is the one and only Christ, and the Son of our Father in Heaven and who is currently seated on the Father's right side. I will pray that Mr Rorh will come to know my Lord Jesus' saving Grace and that good will flow from that!
why does the guy in blue have the eye of providence on his chest
Cannot find part 1
I think personally tests like this are interesting and fun sometimes but if/when they are preached in church then that's a red flag
Okay i was confused when the video started because i thought my mind was playing tricks on me lol
Where is part 1
Got an ad for truity enneagram before the video even began.
Where is part 1?
@19:32 "that has been Christianized"......ok so I'm new to this channel, I heard what you said there and I'm going to check if you guys speak out against "christianzed" holidays like Christmas, eastern and even haloween...I hope this channel doesn't act hypocritical when the same argument is applied to their "Christianized holidays"......(im really hoping this channel stands for truth and not hypocrisy)
i don't feel comfortable with the name of it in my spirit.
Me too!
I can’t find part 1…anyone have the link?
It is linked in the description box
Hey 👋I have a question. I saw this jewish guy on UA-cam say that Jesus can't be the messiah because if he was born of the Virgin marry and she didn't Descend from David how can he be a Descendant of David if technically Joseph is only his father legally. How would you respond?
Mary IS a descendant of David :)
The geneology in the book of Luke is actually Mary's geneology (Luke was a medical doctor so his interest was in the genetic past of Christ). The reason it begins with Joseph is because Mary's father didn't have a male heir, so when she married Joseph he was able to essentially be adopted as his legal son and become Heli's heir. God planned it in this way so that regardless of whether you look at genetic geneology through Mary OR the legal geneology through Joseph you always come back to David!
HE thought of everything 😊
Essentially there are three geneologies of Christ as written in the Bible: genetic found in Luke Chapter 3:23-38, Legal found In Matthew chapter 1:1-17, and spiritual found in John chapter 1:1-18
I hope this helps you!!
Both Joseph and Mary were descendants of David. Their genealogies only branch off after David from two of his sons.
Psalm 110 is written from the hand of David showing multi persons as God. Jesus clarifies who God is speaking to in Mathew 22:41-45; then Peter Verifies in Acts 2 34-35. Jesus is Lord. Hope that helps🙂.
Thanks guys 🙂 jesus is lord!
I just have trouble explaining the whole thing. I came for some help lol THANKS
Fundamentally
Easter and Christmas not pagan? For real!😩😒
Ugh she missed that one ....like seriously, read Ezekiel. It's sad because it is directly related...sad
right 🥴
The synoptic Gospels are the door to Heaven, John is the latch and Jesus is the key.
The true gospel is the good news of the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, it is concerning who Christ is and what He did to save His elect.The gospel includes the how and why, which can only be seen by faith.
It is a message that declares how the eternal Son of God came down, took on a body of sinless flesh (John 1:14) as He was born of a virgin (Mat 1:23). He was both God and man in one Person.
He was born under the Law to keep and fulfill it (Mat 5:18, Gal 4:4). He did that, not for Himself, but for all those He represented because they could not keep it themselves. The word of God calls these people the elect or His sheep, among several other names.
His obedient life also included the part of dying. He took on the sin of His people as both a Substitute and Representative of those people. The Bible said He was "made to be sin" (II Cor 5:21) and the way that was done is by God imputing (legally reckoned or charged to the account of) sin to Christ. That means all the sin of all those people God chose was "laid on Him" (Isaiah 53:6). This sin was legally transferred to His account and He then owned it in such a way to be guilty of it all.
God the Father poured out His wrath and hatred toward sin on His Son and had pleasure (Isaiah 53:10) in doing so, in that, He was completely satisfied in Christ as a Sacrifice that met all the demands of His strict Law and inflexible justice. Christ finished the work of paying the penalty of the Law and then said " It is finished" (John 19:30). He secured salvation for all God’s chosen people that would even be born. His resurrection is evidence of the acceptance of His sacrifice to the Father.
The combined work of His obedience to the Law and His obedience unto death on the cross was considered establishing righteousness. This is what one of the Old Testament prophets prophesied as "bringing in an everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24) as Christ died effectually and exclusively for those chosen of God before the world began (Eph 1:4).
This righteousness is what God imputes to His people in the context of giving the life to believe in Christ. This puts them in a state called "Justification" and as a result they are eternally secure, in Christ. This is the gospel (Rom 1:16-17).
All this takes place in such a way to show God as both a God of justice and a Savior. This is how grace reigns through righteousness (Rom 5:21).
Hosea11:9KJV"I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and NOT man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city." Note please that God and man are mutually exclusive categories. Thus if ones God is now or was ever a man. He is not the Lord JEHOVAH.
The New Testament begs to differ with you.
huh thats weird, could have sworn there was a guy that like raised people from the dead and walked on water which is something only the divine could will
Bro I thought the enneagram was good 🤯🤪
I want to love this podcast but listening to the one interviewer is so distracting. Please take a class or some kind of speech therapy or something.
Interesting to see someone so intelligent desperately trying to justify Christmas and Easter. They both do have pagan origins and pagan themes throughout the “celebration” take away December 25th, Christmas trees, Santa Claus, easter bunny’s, Easter eggs then maybe it wont be so bad.
Step 1. Take what Gurdjieff brought and turn it into crap 2. Spread it around 3. People say its cultish and bad .....Yeah ,no shit the corrupted enneagram is an evil thing.
Ok, I had to Stop Listerine @40 minutes in. Who is this Marchia Woman?? She sounds as Guano as the people She is Denigrating!
Are You Guys Embarrassed about this Interview? I'm Embarrassed for Listerine to this as far as I have.
I hate Listerine too
I’m pretty sure your only supposed to Listerine 30 to 45 seconds
@J L imagine the jaw muscles one would need for 40 minutes of Listerine...
What a crock of crap.....
Where is part 1?