American Musclecar Evolution - The Travesty Of Oldsmobile
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Oldsmobile started out the 1950's as General Motors clear leader in performance and innovation, but by the time the true Musclecar era began their status began to slip. The cars were cool, and the marketing effort was strong, but a couple of factors added up to put the brand far enough behind Chevrolet, that the racing and aftermarket industries all but ignored the once mighty Lancing rockets.
#oldsmobile #chevrolet #musclecars
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Naw, dude, I was there and NOBODY thought Olds sucked because the name included "Old" or "mobile" 😂
It never bothered REAL car people, but the great, unthinking masses who buy the vast majority of cars might see things a bit differently. Salesmen and pastors and aunts and accountants bought Oldsmobile products in great numbers and several times during the brands run it held best selling car in America honors. So, with that sort of general popularity, you would assume Olds musclecar sales would reflect that, but they never came close.
Style and power
I don't know, I'm 47 and I always thought Oldsmobiles were great in the 90s when I was coming up. That said they were 30ish years old at that point.
Chevy was always #1. Buick, oldsmobile, and pontiac was #2. And ford and dodge were always tied for third🤣
@@thekid1924 I love that thinking. More Mustangs and Cougars for me! Everyone has there flavor. I like just about any build that I can tell someone put work into.
“Some men are Baptists, others Catholics. My father was an Oldsmobile man.”
Amen
I know that movie🤣👍
@@rixxroxxk1620name pls?
My Dad had a '49, a '53 & a '61 Olds.
Brother bought brand new '73 Cutlass S right off the lot. Emerald Green W/those Rally wheels. She was sharp! Oddly enough...it's his Birthday, TODAY & he's 73 y/o.
@@rixxroxxk1620 😅 yeah
Speaking of Oldsmobile, here is a little-known piece of trivia that your subscribers may appreciate: As we know, Ransom E. Olds founded the Oldsmobile car company. At some point in time he sold the company to General Motors, and as a part of the sale he had to sign a "no compete" agreement, which took him out of the car manufacturing business. However, he was a very creative man and wanted to get back into the vehicle building business. What to do, he couldn't build cars any more because of the non-compete agreement. So he decided to build trucks instead. Have we ever heard of "REO" trucks.? REO stands for Ransom E. Olds, that's what. He built REO trucks until his death, whereupon the company was sold by his estate to some other buyers, and for years it held a competitive position in the larger truck market. Now we know.
The Olds Motor Vehicle Company was purchased by Sam Smith in 1899. Smith kept Olds on as VP, and GM after changing the name to Olds Motor Works. Smith's son Fred joined the company and forced Olds out in 1904, 4 years before Olds Motor Works was sold to the new conglomerate General Motors in 1908. Olds formed REO Motor Car Company before Wille Durant of GM acquired Olds Motor Works.
Henry Leland who had founded Cadillac, sold it to GM in 1909. He stayed on at Cadillac until 1917 when he and GM founder Durant clashed and was forced out. Leland went on to start another car company and named it Lincoln after the first President he had voted for. As we all know, it was later acquired by Ford. Durant must have been a tough guy to deal with, because after clashing with GM's board, he was forced out. He then went on to found another car company that he named Chevrolet. It too was later acquired by GM, and Durant was once again forced out of the company he founded. The auto business was ruthless in those days. Lol
Alfred Sloan and Charles Kettering were the guys that made General Motors the manufacturing juggernaut that it became. Sloan Kettering Memorial hospital was named in their honor after a substantial donation. The Alred P Sloan Foundation supports public works initiatives to this very day.
Lastly, it was R.E. Olds that came up with the assembly line concept (not Ford), and Leland, along with Kettering, developed the electric starter for automobiles. Both of which revolutionized the car business.
Volvo owns the rights to the name even now. So who knows, maybe one day.
REO Speedwagon.
The REO Speedwagon was a real thing.
REO made one of the best powered reel mowers of an era,I think they came out in the 1940s and into at least the mid 1950s "Reo Royale"
Chevy guy for 36 years. But bought an Olds 3 weeks ago. Vista Cruiser wagon with 350 Olds. It's an awesome cruiser!!!!
I did my first burnout in a Oldsmobile cutlass with the 350 Rocket. My cousin took me out past the edge of town and turned it around and put me behind the wheel. He said when I say nail it I want you to put the pedal to the floor. I had never driven a car before that. What a great time!
I’ve always loved the Cutlass. To me the Cutlass was also the best looking G body of the 1980’s
That's a pretty awesome Americana story
A family friend had an olds cutlass,with the 350 rocket,one tire fire had you burning the tires for 2 blocks.
@@rollin19 Yes it was, and my cousin put really wide tires on the back. Funnier yet it was his twin sisters car that we were driving.
did that with a buddy in about 2011 with my 68 impala with a mild 400SBC in it....
he had never driven a RWD car before... let alone one with about 325HP
.
he does a MASSIVE burnout across the highway....from 1 "side gravel road" to another (NE Montana.... lots of gravel)
.
well, this car that we saw like 7 miles up the highway suddenly turns in behind us and gets RIGHT! on our ass
and the 68 BADLY needs shocks.... its 3 different colors of BADLY aged paint... a bit rusty, ETC
.
i mean this dude is ON! OUR! ASS!
cant see anything because of his headlights.... and cant slow down due to not wanting to be rear ended
.
i tell my buddy to brake check him... LIGHTLY... a few times......
does not back off
.
so i say "ok, fuck this guy..... floor it, take out his windshield"
my buddy- no man, i dont want to do that!
so i reach over, place my foot on his.... and stomp down
.
all we heard was....
3-1 downshift.... BBBAAAAAA-----WWWAAAAAAAAAA (buddy held it straight and true... i was so proud LOL)
and then WHOOP! WHOOP!!!!
and red and blue lights
.
.
cop was like "why did you spit rocks on me?"
i was like "why were you following so close?" (could see he knew he fucked up...and he dropped that issue)
cop - why is he driving it and not you, the owner?
we just got it running.... he wanted to drive it.... thats not illegal sir, his license is valid
cop - is this rust bucket insured
yup, liability only, just got the card 2 days ago
.
.
ended up with a seat belt warning.... as the previous owner (my late aunt) took them out
i guess cops didnt have cell phones back then to google what year cars started to come standard with front belts lol
.
.
pretty cool cop.....
.
OH... PS...
we were all 420 blazed it AF!!! (which is why we were on back roads lol)
.
had to "christen" the car..... its what my late aunt would have wanted LOL
Many of the Olds short comings are easily remedied but perception is reality. I’ve always been an Olds guy, I’ve also only ever built an Olds motor to maximize to do what it does best, build massive amounts of low end torque. They’re brutes. My biggest gripe with the Olds, is there is a limited amount of guys with knowledge how to build them correctly and the prices are stupid astronomical. They’re awesome and smooth, they’re the ultimate cruising engine. Great video and perspective from an Olds “outsider”
I agree. A friend of mine has a Mid 80s Chevy Suburban that he uses as a tow rig. Several years ago, I helped him swap a 455 Olds into it when the original 454 got too tired. It was built with plenty of parts and even more tech advice from Mondellos company. That rig will pull anything!
Yea my buddy built a 455 has 5k in aluminum heads forged pistons and can't get it to stop smoking a little put new rings again and same thing still smokes a little
@@MikeBrown-ii3pt Mondello is about the only source for Olds performance parts....and knowledge. I used them when building a 403.
We used to pull Olds 350 diesels from Chevy pickups and install Olds 455s in them.
The biggest "muscle car" problem with the Oldsmobile V8 is they are typically designed for TORQUE the oil pump sufficient however it doesn't have large or quantity enough passage for oil to drain back to the pan.
Some use oil restrictions in the oil passage during a rebuild. The Bering diameter doesn't allow this to work.
I have learned if you use big block Chevy rods reduce the big end diameter (custom cut crank)
And install exterior oil drain back hose on each side from the valve cover to the pan.
Yes, 330/425 45° cam bank angle changed to 39° cam bank angle by the time of 350/400/455...
Lots of exceptions and a front wheel drive engine.
Must have the right cam for the block and early push rod passage in heads is too small for 39° blocks.
@@tommycook9620 I had a similar problem.
The machine shop didn't make the correct bore for the piston in my case.
MY ALL TIME FAVORITE CAR WAS MY '65 OLDS CUTLASS WITH A 330 4BbL. I NEVER KNEW TILL RECENTLY IT CRANKED OUT 300 H.P. I USED TO SMOKE Z28 CAMARO'S ON THE PKWY. THAT 2 SPD. JETAWAY TRANS WOULD WIND OUT TO 75 MPH BEFORE I HAD TO SHIFT OUT OF LOW! WHAT A GREAT CAR!
I've had 3 Oldsmobile cars .2 with the 455 Rocket. Could not kill them Even if I Wanted to. Great Motor. You,my friend, have a great show, please keep it up. Thank you and God bless you.
In the mid 70's I bought a 70 Cutlass with a bad 350 in it. Swapped in a 425 from a 67 98. Sweet road car , pulled up steep grades like a freight train.
In 49 when the OHV rocket came out the dealers got a clear acrylic hood to display the new engine, but the dealers didn't want to put it on a car and then switch it back to move the car. So they put them in the back room and I have one that was never installed.
both of my paternal great grandfathers were engineers at Olds. The first 330 was built in my gr. grandpa's basement across the street from what later was known as the cutlass plant. on saginaw avenue in Lansing. when he died, they found the first f85 badged as a cutlass with that 1963 330 in it.
The 330 320 horse was awesome engine!
Being an Olds guy and from Detroit I love hearing stories of Oldsmobile employees! Still lots of good ones out there but that crowd is getting smaller with time unfortunately
Great video 😎
@@williamstamper442 I feel like these guys need to be found and stories put on film ,like they do with WW2 vets.
I’ve got one of the F85 Olds cutlass cars it had a 330 CI engine and jetway transmission in it .
Now has a Olds 403 and TH 2004r
Time and money head turner.
Makes you wonder if gas engines will survive in the years ahead. 😢
Thank you for the history lesson Tony. As an Olds and Pontiac guy, I also saw the shortcomings of the Olds motors early on. Have been building motors for nearly 50 years now and have found, as you did, that the Olds motors could eat a set of head gaskets in a weekend if you pushed too hard. Never thought about the oversized water jackets, but it makes sense. Keep making these videos and a big THANKS from a fan.
With only 10 head bolts of 1/2 inch diameter, that wasnt surprising. Head bolt torque was only 80 lbs.
The 385 series Ford engines (370HD 429, and 460) also used only 10 head bolts, but they were 9/16 diameter and required torquing to 130-140 ft lbs.
@@donreinke5863 my 1st car was a 75 Lincoln Mark4 with a 460. It sat so long before I got it that the valve guides siezed and we bent all the pushrods getting it home. Anyway we had to pull the heads and have a valve job done. I distinctly remember that we had to torque the head bolts to 180lb-ft. I was a 15 yo football lineman at the time and it still took all I had on that final tourque sequence. Damn heads were so heavy we set them in with our engine hoist.
Back in high school shop, we had to adjust the valve clearances on some kids 65 442.
30yrs ago ,but what I remember is sanding washers down by hand to get the clearances right.
I also remember not having part of a fingerprint for a while too 🤣
I ran a 73 Olds 350, W30 cam, intake, headers, 10:1 compression, Mike Janis prepped heads. in a 71 Cutlass convertible when I was a kid for years. Wound it up to 6 grand daily. Never tossed a rod, never blew a head gasket. The so called limits of Olds motors is overrated. If it’s blue printed and built right.
Yes there are only 4 head bolts torqued to 80lbs = 320lbs per cylinder. The small block chevy has 5 bolts torqued to 65lbs = 325lbs per cylinder. Those 5lbs won't make a lick of difference. Just torque the olds to 85lbs instead of 80.😅 Also the later olds V8s 77-90 used larger head bolts that are torqued to 130lbs. There is enough meant in the older olds v8s to be drilled & taped for the larger head bolts. So they really don't have any limitations as far as head clamping force goes.
Tony, keep the old-school/history coming! You've hit upon something. Even the youngest hot-rodder has heard of the good old days of hot rodding and want to know more.
Thank you Tony for doing an episode on my favorite brand for 53 years running!
It's great to see so many die hards out here who fly their Oldsmobile flag proudly here in the comments and on the streets and dragstrip!
My love for Olds is easy to explain. Dad was a die hard Olds guy therefore it became mine too. He and I were very close and was first the best father ever and later was my best friend too. Dang it, a little tear right there as I typed the above. Hasn't been the same without you over the last 7 years.
Ok back to Olds...of course my very first car had to be an Olds. For a mere $550 in 1983 a rough 1970 Olds 442 in dark twilight blue with shades of rust and primer became all mine. The car has seen quite a few incarnations but the best are yet to come because I still have the same car! Being able to keep ones first car is a feat in itself and I feel pretty lucky to be able to say that I have been able to do the same.
Most of the downsides of the brands V8 architecture mentioned by Tony are well known within the car guy circles and most can be improved on with help from the aftermarket and some old school sound mechanic minds and hands.
Us Olds die hards are aware but most other people are unaware of the rocket racing aftermarket performance cylinder block available. Price tag is too much if you have to ask, but if one is willing then pretty much all shortcomings are addressed and solved. Cylinder head airflow even with aftermarket aluminum examples available are by far the biggest road block which still has a ways to go compared to other makes. With that said it's now relatively easy to build a normally aspirated 700-900 horsepower engine based on the aftermarket block. It's debatable however my opinion is that 700hp is the limit for stock engine blocks. My 462 big block olds on the stand made 680hp/640tq in it's current form. The car is all apart for quite some time after falling into "paint jail" along with that thing called life, so the big motor has only seen dyno time. Who knows if it will even live? We will see soon enough I suppose. Recently moved after 22 years in the same house and the car came with me of course and has a new garage home. It's feeling like that alone may be the spark to get back on the work needed in order to get the car ready to come out and play.
This entire comment ended up being narrowed down to the performance aspect of the Olds engine in itself and very little was even talked about in regards to the cars themselves. In stock form the quality, image, ride, appearance and feel for these cars put the brand in a class all by themselves for so many years. Us Olds guys have been in on these points for a long time but I realize how many people know so little about the brand. At their peak, which in itself a very subjective term, the Oldsmobile brand was respected for what they were yet their cars were not exactly sought after by every single person out there. May not have worded that correctly but what I mean is everybody had something good to say about at least one aspect of any particular model of Olds vehicles even if they disliked some other aspect.
Oldsmobile's biggest obstacle was probably cost. Considered a higher end vehicle in GM's lineup many people couldn't afford an Olds. My dad was included in that group until he moved to Michigan in 1964 got a good job and was able to buy his first used Olds, then by 1968 his first new Olds. If anything Olds have always been high end...in terms of cost for sure!
Looking forward to going thru this entire comment section and see what other Oldsmobile guys have to say.
Nice I tell you what Time is ticking man get that car running good luck 👍
I hope you know for every olds man like you fading out there's another one like me. I love the Oldsmobiles for their entire history. Always an underdog but always a step ahead. My Toronado is an example. Pretty much the Grandpa to all FWD cars
My dad is a Pontiac guy. I have always liked the looks of BOP. The three overlooked brands. So many amazing engines, cars, and designs overall. I love the nailheads. Such a unique sound and run.
Crazy I have had olds v8's my whole life and have never had a bad head gasket! The cutlass I'm messing with now sat for 29 yrs and the headgaskets are just fine!
As a long time Oldsmobile fanatic, there are few errors here.
When it comes to the typical “performance” year Oldsmobile engines, there are 2 basic families, with almost identical designs. The “small block” family is the 260, 307, 330, 350, and 403. The “big blocks”are the 400, 425, and 455. The design differences is the deck height. A big block has about a 1.3 higher deck height, and the intake manifold is 1 1/2 inches wider. That’s it, not much else is different.
Most Oldsmobile engine parts interchange. A cylinder head from a 260 will physically bolt onto a 455, or a 307, 350, or 403. Needless to say, the port size wouldn’t work. Same with exhaust manifolds. All of the external sheetmetal (valve covers, oil pans, timing covers) will interchange. Distributors, fuel pumps, water pumps, MOST accessory mounting brackets, will interchange between small and big blocks. Camshafts for the most part will swap in 1966 olds changed the angle the lifters sit in the block. Rocker arms, timing chains, oil pumps, engine mounts, identical. Obviously, pistons, connecting rods, and cranks are displacement based, and pushrods are different between the small/big engines.
The key to keeping a olds together is letting the engine do what it was designed to do, and that’s make torque. Keep the rpm’s down, gear the car to use the torque these engine naturally make, and have fun. Try to spin a big olds engine much over 5500, it will let you know it’s not happy.
If you absolutely have to push the tach further than that, be prepared to spend some money. Buy the best and lightest pistons you can find, use good connecting rods, and good quality machine work done by someone familiar with a olds engine.
You left out the Sky Rocket Ultra High Compression 394. ;)
Oops, you left out the 215 V8 as well. A version of the 215 was the first all aluminum, turbo charged engine in a regular production car in 1962.
WELL TOLD, I HAD TO PUT MY OPINIONS UP AGAINST THE “ OLD MAIDS TALES AS WELL!!
All fact for the 1964-on engines. That was one thing Olds did right, the foundation of all the engines is the same. No crazy mental gymnastics or painful mount relocating to swap an engine. The only other big difference is the big block crank had larger bearing journals, but I think that's about everything. You can swap pretty much everything on the top end between the two, except the intake.
The Oldsmobile blocks have a different "angle" to them as well!! An Oldsmobile engine has a 60 degree "V" shape making them wider than a Chevy small or big block as well!! Where the Chevy has a 90 degree "V" design!! This is why you can't simply throw a Rocket 350, into a Nova that had a 350 small block Chevy in them!! Because the position of the frame mounts for the motor mounts MUST BE relocated!! Older Year One Catalogs also used to print this information, but I learned about it by chance, when I tried to "mock up" a Chevy small block in my 1974 Olds Omega once!! And quickly found out Chevy engines do NOT bolt in directly where a Rocket engine once lived!! Also bell housing bolt patterns on a Buick, Olds, Pontiac and some Cadillacs are wildly different then Chevy as well!! So what is called B.O.P transmissions what is required in any Buick, Old or Pontiac!!
Another piece of information I can share is this, though trivial! In 1973 near the end of production there was a fire in the building that made B.O.P. transmissions. And at this time in early 1974 production run GM did not have a lot of B.O.P. Turbo Hydramatics available.....so some of the "lesser cars" like the Oldsmobile Omega (Pontiac Ventura, and Buick Apollo) with an inline six cylinder, could be purchased with a four speed or three manual floor shifter OR a three speed column shifter as a "factory item"! And only cars with V8 engines could be bought with a turbo hydramatic transmission IN 1974 only!! So if you find a weird Oldsmobile Omega with a column shifter they are pretty rare, and most customers optioned for the floor shifter three or four speed cars!! This means ALSO that finding a manual shifted bell housing for an Oldsmobile, Buick or even Pontiac is actually more common than you might think, if you can find any inline six cylinder cars laying around!!
@@gregbenwell6173
REGARDING BLOCK ANGLE, ALL OLDS V-8 BLOCKS ARE 90 DEGREES, NOT 60!
THERE IS HOWEVER A DIFFERENCE IN THE CAM TO LIFTER ANGLE ON THE VERY EARLY BIG BLOCKS!
(425 , 1965!)
FOR THIS REASON , YOU REALLY
NEED TO CHECK THINGS OUT WHEN BUYING A CAMSHAFT!
THE CAM CATALOGUES I HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST WILL ALSO
REFERR TO THIS DIFFERENCE!
WHILE I HAVE NEVER INTERCHANGED CHEVROLET AND OLDS ENGINES AROUND,
I HAVE INTERCHANGED BIG BLOCKS AND SMALL BLOCKS IN THE FULL SIZE CARS, NO PROBLEMS, EXCEPT FOR EXHAUST MANIFOLDS!
I HAVE ALSO PUT SMALL BLOCK HEADS ON BIG BLOCKS AND VICE VERSA AND YOU HAVE TO DO SOME WEIRD WORK TO GET PERFECT PORT MATCHING!
ONE EXPERIMENT WAS PUTTING SMALL INTAKE SMALL VALVE
SMALL BLOCK HEADS ON A 455!
I MADE NO ATTEMPT TO MATCH THE INTAKE PORTS BECAUSE I WANTED TO CREATE TURBULENCE IN THE PORTS
HOPING TO MAKE BETTER FUEL MILEAGE!
THIS DID NOT INCREASE FUEL MILEAGE BUT MADE UNGODLY TORQUE BARELY ABOVE IDLE SPEED!
I HAD THIS ENGINE IN A 1974 FORD F-250 PICKUP WITH FORD TRUCK STICK 4 SPEED.
I HAVE AN UPHILL DRIVEWAY WITH A MILD GRADE, AND WAS
ABLE FROM A STOP, AND BY SLIPPING THE CLUTCH A BIT AND WITH A LITTLE MORE THAN IDLE SPEED, CLIMB MY DRIVEWAY IN 4 TH GEAR!
SWAPPING THE BIG BLOCK
OLDS INTO MY PICKUP WAS VERY NEARLY A BOLT IN!
USE THE FULL SIZE CAR OLDS MOUNTS, NOTCH ONE FORD FRAME HOLE 1/4 INCH, AND ITS A DROP IN !!
REDRILL A STEEL SCATTERSHIELD BELL HOUSING AND AND TURN THE LARGE DIAMETER FLANGE ON THE CLUTCH COLLAR, AND FITS PERFECTLY!
PUT THE FORD FAN ON THE OLDS AND BOLT PATTERN IS SAME, AND FAN FITS PERFECTLY
IN THE FORD FAN SHROUD!
A BIT OF THROTTLE ROD MODS
AND DRIVE HER AWAY!
This "series" if awesome man!!! Please turn this into a "whole thing" We all need periodic reminders of our roots. Our collective history as hotrodders is PARAMOUNT to the survival of our hobby(lifestyle).
I have to agree
Its amazing to me that once a manufacturer discovered a potentially fatal flaw in an engine, that they continued to build them with the flaw still present in it. Ford with their oil pans, Pontiac with the cast rods, the Chevys had known problems, Olds, all of them. What's really puzzling with Fords is they're constantly (every few months it seems) changing parts #s and design, and yet then never changed the biggest problem of all.
My old neighbor in Dunedin was really good friends with Joe Mondello if you are still talking about Oldsmobile. Sal worked for Joe along time and I am 62 years old and he would give me a lesson on GM that was spectacular. My neighbor was also a retired chemical engineer. He always had an engine on the stand and would tell me a lot. I wish I knew what he forgot because it would be awesome to know. Thanks Tony Great Video!!!
US19
I wish I had known you guys when I lived near the intersection of Belcher and Tampa Road in Palm Harbor.
@@oldsguy354
Nice homes around there. Pretty good neighborhoods.
The first really fast can I rode in was a '70 442 with a 455 engine. The incredible torque would pin you to the seats 😄
Those 455s have amazing torque. My 68 Toronados came with 510lb feet from the factory!
I had a ‘74 Olds Omega Hatchback. At 16 years old I learned everything about cars on it- rebuilt the Rocket 350 and did every thing I could to that car !!
Cool!……@16 I had a 1974 Buick Apollo 350, I abused that car for years and it wouldn’t break now @55 I have a 1970 Buick GS !
Pretty cool how you both had similar cars of the same era, both with great little small blocks of their own brand. Similar but not the same. 16 years of age and both had cool cars of the time.
When I was in 16 was lucky enough to road test for my license in my own freshly painted by self 1970 442! Car had a 350 in it then as the seller wanted more for the original blown up 455 than I paid for the whole car! Anyway back to the point... What a feeling it was taking my road test in my own freshly painted twilight blue 70 442. Dad even sneaked a picture when I was pulling back up. Even the female tester commented on my car and was impressed!
Dang guys you both just triggered a myriad of stories when simply mentioning being 16 with your first car!
I'm 53 now and I do still have the 70.
If memory serves correctly. Oldsmobile had first horn on a car and seat belts.
As an owner of a 64 & a 65 cutlass, thanks for this video. I had a 330 with 2 bbl, I put a lot of cars in the dust.
My first car was a 65 cutlass convertible with the 330 and 4bbl. Great car paid 450 for it back in 1973.
Also had first high mount brake lights on the Toronado... 455 FWD. I have a 75 and I can tell you ppl have the best look on their face when they see it burning the fronts off at a stoplight lol
Lots of firsts for Oldsmobile. That could almost be a series in itself. Just for example Olds put out the first successful modern example of front wheel drive with the Toronado in 1966
Many many other firsts
I had a 442 with a 455. Smoothest acceleration ever :)
My uncle bought a new 1970 442 and stored it in my dad's garage and told my dad to take it out once in a while and clean the cobwebs out of it and I went with when I was 10 years old. Good memories
FYI, for some on here who claim oldsmobiles are slow and have no race pedigree there are two 1970 442 w30’s out there today that were former NHRA record holders. One is a survivor (gold) the other one is a white convertible that set an E/stock record. Any factory muscle car with basic day two mods that can break into the 11’s/ low 12’s is no doubt a runner. The gold one became a tow vehicle after it was thrashed on and still looks great and runs strong today. Pretty impressive durability wise for a car over 50 years old.
Any Olds in the old days would run 200,000 miles easy.
When I was young I had s Oldsmobile Delta 88 with a 455 2 barrel. My buddy and I were out cruising one day and he had to mess with this guy at the gas station who was driving a Pontiac LeMans with a 350 that was supposed to be built. We went out to some side road and even I was surprised, my old rusty huge Delta 88 Oldsmobile ate him up.
This is fun stuff to listen to. I'm hoping you're going to continue the series with the Buick nailhead and the 455.
My Dad had a 72-73 Oldsmobile Delta 88 coupe with the Rocket 350. Said it was gutless until he ripped off the smog stuff then it ran like a champ!
As an old guy (I am 58 years old) who was a young fella in the 1980s Oldsmobile was never actually "looked down upon" and my 1974 Oldsmobile Omega was a monster on the streets around Ithaca New York, (which is home to Cornell University), back in the mid 1980s!! I never had the money to actually complete the car, BUT I drove it for four years, with the Rocket 350 motor in it, that I had added some subtle mods too!! For starters a lot of people DO NOT understand that Oldsmobile Rocket 350 engines have 2.07 inch intake valves, and 1.97 exhaust valves, making them much larger then the Chevy 2.02 and 1.94!! So with that in mind, even installing a mild cam, and altering the valve timing slightly WILL give you a major boost in performance, just by installing a modest cam shaft!! The down side to this (and my problem as well) is, there is NO adjustment at the rocker arms on a Oldsmobile engine, unless you have a $2500 rocker arm kit that changes this problem!! And the kit is similar to what you'd find in a few "rail type valve trains" on old Mopars!!
I forget the specs of the cam I used, BUT I do remember it being a Crane Cam, Fireball II, and it changed not only the duration of the valve lift, but the slight timing change the engine needed to give it the "Street and Strip" performance I was after! And could be used with the Rhoades Anti Pump Up lifters!! BUT you have to keep in mind my 1974 Omega had manual drum brakes on all four corners, so this combination was perfect with a car that DID NOT NEED vacuum power for the brake system!!
ALSO the stock piston in a 1974 Rocket 350 were dished and only had 9 to 1 compression ratio, but I had a couple of other Rocket motors, and one had the flat tops with a 10 to 1 ratio that I installed in to my motor instead! Further work included having the exhaust ports in the heads smoothed and polished, and fitted to the Hooker Headers I had, to promote better air flow out of them!! And lastly on the engine work I had a friend of mine tinker with the original Quadrajet Carb, and we installed the larger metering rods to give the engine more fuel to feed the new cam profile!!! This allowed the car to get much more fuel and mid to full throttle, and really helped the mid ranger performance of the engine as well!!
Though I never had the engine on a dyno (my other friend had not finished building his new shop when I had got this nightmare running), we'd figured we were making nearly 375 horsepower out of it roughly, with all the numbers figured in! And the Nova style body of the Oldsmobile Omega would at least pull the wheels off the ground had I installed ladder bars in the rear end!!! BUT like I say I never finished the car, and had I, I would have installed rear frame connectors too (notorious know issue with any of the GM Nova, Ventura, Omega, and Apollo/ Skylark cars, in the 1970s!!!)!!! So commonly it would twist the rear springs at launch, into an "S" shape just seconds, before the big 60 series bias ply tires could react!!
Ultimately there were many cars my Omega would blow the doors off!! And growing up in a college town (again Cornell University was right there, as was Ithaca College, a media arts school) I never had a shortage of "victims" in a straight line race either!! And I used to love pulling up to a brand new IROC Z28 Camaro, with the Cornell Sticker in the back window, and sitting there at a red light, locked and loaded to launch!! And my car was NOT "pretty" the hood was red primer, and trunk lid was grey primer and the rest of the car was what I called "Baby Sh*t Yellow" (Actually Olds called it "Harvest Gold")!! And it had spots where I had sanded off rust and just primered it in what ever color primer I had laying around with "dots" all over the car!! BUT when I dropped the hammer.....the rear end would sink (bending those rear springs) and the car would jump out in action, nearly two to three car lengths on anything I pulled up against!!
Thank you Tony, this is one of the greatest reasons I watch your videos. Prospective of the mechanic whom actually worked on the vehicles . Going over real experiences with solutions and explaining how your working on these projects are full time learned lessons.
I believe you meant “perspective”. As in ‘point of view’.
@@r.joseph8911 thank you English teacher for going over my post with your fine toothed comb. I do hope that you correct every post for this video...
Olds video... My favorite street big block is a Oldsmobile 455. Built many and they always run VERY good.
My 55 is still going strong with the original 324 Rocket with a stock Rochester 4GC. No smoke, no power loss. Steady 35 PSI oil pressure at warm idle. I love that motor.
Thought my 84 Oldsmobile was old lol 🤣🤣🤣
I am a die hard Olds guy and it is so cool to hear you give them some love. Also, I am building my ‘71 Cutlass the same way as you described at the beginning of the video. I picked up a 355 Olds with Edelbrock heads and a lot of other goodies for $2500. Looking at the receipts that the guy who built it for, it cost him a $9500
Great buy! I'm a little jealous 🤑
Sounds like a fun build. Pay very special attention to camshaft choice and ask some people who are doing what you are and see what they are running.
Consider having a cam custom ground. I've built so many Olds engines over the last 35 or so years and have not purchased an off the shelf grind in over 25 years!
Also don't be afraid of compression especially with alum heads. If done right you can get away with an actual 11.0:1 on pump 93 if you are careful with a well thought out combo.
I drive my 84 cutlass daily I swear it’s truly a reliable car check out my page
@@williamstamper442 I actually got a guy who is grinding me a roller cam for it right now! I’m pretty excited on the whole build. The car doesn’t look like much, but it has some fire where it needs it haha
@@WyoCutlass71 Good to hear back from you, well done! You are a jump ahead of my comment. Would love to see the car when is done and out there in it's natural habitat! What intake you plan on running with your small block Olds?
@@williamstamper442 ua-cam.com/video/NRcS9Mumm-M/v-deo.html
That is a video of the car and how it was when I first got it. And then I got some more crappy videos on my channel. I actually got a free edelbrock dual plane intake haha. I just had to drive three hours to get it haha.
This is truly were UTG shines, your knowledge that isn't regurgitated all over the tube!
Had a 66 F85, 330,2 sp auto. Factory built for CHP use. Stunning performance! High comp, big cam. Crazy.
I really like this series, keep up the good work!
This is the best account I've followed recently, feels like Bs'ing at the family's old salvage yard. Miss those goodtimes. This is pretty good stuff.
Love my 68 Toronado. This helped me see the olds engines in more of at the time light
The Toronados and Rivieras were some of the most beautiful well built cars of the 1960’s
@@RobertSmith-le8wp Don't forget the Eldorados! The Toronados cousin
I had a olds cutlass sx. 455 308 posi. I ran 13:42 in the mid 80s with that old girl. It had so much torque you didn't need really low gears. I never blew a head gasket. But I did spin a rod bearing. Around 6200 rpms. After I rebuild the bottom and drilled the oil. Holes in the block bigger I never had a problem again. But I always kept it under 5800 rpms after that. It's was very reliable for years.
This sort of content is a nice diversion, there aren't many people that have had the opportunity to experience all that you have. It's just nice to hear a first person perspective of the greatest time in racing when even the backyard mechanic could run on the weekend and be competitive without a national sponsor or 2.
I HAD A 66 OLDS 98 WITH A 425 BIG BLOCK THAT WAS A HIGH TORQUE LOW RPM MONSTER 375 HP WITH A 4 BARREL STOCK.
Uncle Tony, I was there in the 1960s. Oldsmobile was an expensive upper-middle-class car that a Sr. Manager, a Store Owner, an Accountant, a Dentist owned 1st of all, and as such there were maybe 2 1/2 Oldsmobiles sold for every 10 Chevrolet Cars. Chevy, Ford, and Plymouth were known as "The Low Priced Three". The Cutlass and "4-4-2" were a way to add some "young-guy-28 year-old coolness" onto an older (45-55 year-old) man's car. Buick? Also EXPENSIVE!!! A Pontiac was often priced very close to a Chevy...close enough that one could get a "wide-track" Pontiac - as the whole division's cars were known for ( wider width suspensions than similar cars)...A Pontiac was about 5% more than Chevys. So Pontiacs, Plymouth, and Chevys were more plentiful. Therefore, more could be had second orcthird hand, more too in juniyarfx'x
Olds was always my thing in high-school because it was different. Wish I could stumble upon one now.
yall have been putting out solid content lately, keep it up UTG! mechanical wisdom much appreciated
425-cid Super Rocket V-8 engine. The base 425 offered 300 hp, though optional carburetion could boost that number as high as 370 hp
425 super rocket ultra high compression 11.25 - 1 written right across the breather.
@@michaelschranz5666 Dads Delta 88 had a posi too. After my dad dies yrs later mom wants to drive my oldest brother takes her out as instructor First time giving it some gas she left a 6 ft long double patch of rubber.
@@LORISSABOOBMAN you have to love Oldsmobile I had a 69 cutlass someone put a 455 sedan motor in. When I disassembled it it had 10.5 - 1 pistons. Unreal torque, when you would stand on it, it boiled tires through second gear, but when it hit third, the ass would scooch down and it would launch like a rocket. Good for mid 12 second quarters. Spun a rod, ran 2 more quarters, not enough clearance to come apart. pulled motor and transmission, the piston has a small mark where it hit the head and the counterweight, scared the crankshaft. 40 years later still in my shop waiting for something worthy. I bought the car for 150 dollars, sold the car for 50 dollars. Stupid kid stuff.
@@michaelschranz5666 My own Olds was a Omega 250 straight six. The flange broke at the pipe to exhaust manifold , sounded pretty good, that was a very good car, traded it back where i bought it got what i paid 4 yrs later & got me a 78 Chevy Monza Spyder that used the Buick V-6 5 speed that car was a car with nearly 100k bought in 81, 60 some yr old guy drove it over 200 miles a day all in for work, ALL SD HIGHWAY, that motor when i got hit in Cali with it by a boat similar to Dads Olds, MY CAR WAS TOTALED that motor i tried to explode it by flooring it in neutral & holding, would not give-up.
Those were the days...Buick and Oldsmobile engines were torque monsters...but - they were very unforgiving of the slightest mistake, and very expensive to fix. You really nailed the highlights of the reasons they never rivaled the Chevys for the hearts and minds of the young American hotrodder.
Awesome, thanks for the history lesson. I missed out on the muscle car era, but have fond memories of my Dad telling me stories of him and his brothers running cars, they all had chevys back in the day. Youngsters need to hear this stuff, including me , thanks again Tony.
What made Olds different from most other muscle cars in the era was it's quality of build, reflected mostly in its ride.
Oldsmobile was GMs experimental division. Olds engineers designed and perfected valve rotators. All the W30 and W31 motors were assembled with "select fit parts" basically factory blue printing. Olds motors easily would run, with proper care 150k to well over 200k on the Rocket V8s
The W30's + W31's were beyond balanced ! Most engines are balanced at grams while the W motors were balanced down to grains !
The "Oldsmobile" engine referred to that was used in drag cars in the 80s was the DRCE, Drag Race Competition Engine. It was for all intents and purposes simply a big-block Chevy, and at one time, as late as the 1990s GM Performance offered parts to build them. One of the interesting parts offered were the aluminum BBC valve covers which had "Oldsmobile" cast into them. There were some peculiarities though that made them different from the actual Chevrolet heads.
The Olds 307 used in the G-body 442 in the late 80s was a roller cam engine, those came factory equipped with a 10 bolt 3.73 Positraction rear end.and the engine was backed up by a 2004R overdrive transmission, as the 3.05 low gear 700R4 was made only with Chevrolet bellhousing configuration. As with the 350 and 403, they had a stroke of 3.375, while the 77-79 403 was radically oversquare with a bore of 4.35.
The 403 was discontinued at the end of the 1979 production run.
Oldsmobile also made two 400 cid engines of different bore and stroke configuration, through 1966 it had a bore of 4 inches and a stroke of 3.975, nearly identical to the later Ford 400 (4x4) bore/stroke.
From 1967-69, the Olds 400 had a bore of only 3.870 and a stroke of 4.25, the same as the 455.
It was obviously designed for low end torque.
The Olds DRCE was not a hollowed out Olds diesel with a big block chevy inside...it was based off the big block chevy but had the 2 extra head bolts per bank, the pan rails were 1/2 wider and it was dry sump only. The heads were raised symmetrical port heads with a different valve cover bolt pattern
I had a buddy that had a Olds Starfire, I think it was very luxurious, but had a 394 I believe, and it ran real good!
Buddy of mine had a Super 88. It said “ Ultra high compression “ on the air cleaner. Man that car would run.
"This is not your father's Oldsmobile!" My father bought a1966 Cutlass with the 330/4bbl. The plate on the air cleaner said ultra-high compression 10.5:1 use premium fuel only! Of course, we used regular leaded and got 200k miles before the it started to smoke. I still have parts from that car around. I was an Olds man ever since.
WENT to 2011 Carsile GM show and talked to a 68 442 owner, and told him about the 425 should have been factory installed in late 60s 442. HE told me they were a popular install with 442 owners.
Oldsmobiles were always marketed at the mature adult crowd, like Buick. That's why Olds no longer exists. It never made sense for GM to have two divisions going after the same customers.
I was befuddled when GM killed Oldsmobile but bought Daewoo back in the early 00s.
@@MarvelousSeven Why is it surprising? Daewoo is an investment in Asia and Olds and Buick should have been combined before WWII.
A much more recent example of this is regarding SUV's even quite recently, with the early- to mid-2000's Oldsmobile Bravada, Pontiac Torrent, Chevy Equinox, Buick Rendezvous and Saturn Vue all being the exact same vehicle with only exterior appearance differences. 2008 was the last year for the Torrent (I had a Torrent GXP, that was a great high-performing SUV but a righteous pain to work on and absolutely zero aftermarket support) and this idiocy probably led to the demise of Oldsmobile & Pontiac shortly thereafter. Anybody with marketing experience should've known targeting the same niche with 5 different SUV models, competing with each other under the SAME manufacturer umbrella, was not a good thing!
A video on the AMC/Rambler 327ci V8 would be interesting. Many prople mistakenly believe it is related to the GM 327 but it is not and was developed much earlier.
I had a 1964 327 Ambassador when I was 15. The engine was a Packard Marine block rated at 300 hp with open exhausts and 270 hp installed in the car. It was connected to a Torqueflite tranny and fed 3.42 gears into a Saginaw posi rear end. It had a Motorcraft ignition and various Ford front suspension parts and really was :American' Motors! Even with that heavy engine it weighed less than 3200 lb. it was very torquey. i shaved the heads, insralled homemade headers, recurved the distributor and rejetted the 4 bbl carb. It ran neck to neck with my friends 289 mustang which he modded
with a cam and headers. We were the twin terrors of Tropical Park. When I yanked the heads, I noticed there's a lot of meat in the block and heads, meaning you can bore them out. I don't know of any cranks available, but these days there could be. As such, 400 cu in would be doable. later on we tore down a 390 out of an AMX, it was a thinwall block with little meat in the block to rebore.
@crankychris2 I think you will find that the 327 is actually an engine originally developed by Hudson Motors and was used in the Hudson Hornet. When Nash and Hudson merged in 1956, it was then put into Nash (Rambler) Ambassadors.
It's a very powerful engine.
I believe the Packard 8 was somewhat different.
I've owned a few Olds in my day, the most prominent were a '66 Dynamic with a 425 2 barrel, I paid $ 350 for it from the original owner who bought it new in 66 he had stored it in his barn for the last 30 years or so and the varmints had eaten the wiring under the hood, I asked him
" why so cheap for this beautiful car?"
He said he jus wanted to recoup what he paid to have the wiring fixed ! So, I bought this car, it fired right up with a prime because it had been sitting awhile, this car was a monster! And I noticed all these little cool things everywhere the longer I owned it such as the "s" mode on the shifter , the owners manual said " this is super overdrive" for performance use when you want to accelerate rapidly . Only in the 60s right? The other was a 72 Cutlass S with a 350 rocket which ran like a Nascar , I maintained it for the previous owner and always loved the car so later I bought it and enjoyed it for many years of trouble free miles
a friend of mine back in the day , had a few cars running the 455, had good torque seemed like it beat up the bearings and needed overhauls pretty often. most of the olds mills i saw were in ski-boats .
Jet boats practically ruined Olds V8s for so many people back in the 1970s and 80s. It's a shame because there were a couple fatal flaws that caused this phenomenon which practically never happened in cars. The single biggest problem was running a stock standard car oil pan on a boat. As a lifelong die hard Olds guy I've experienced this same problem with an old jet boat I picked up for cheap. The solution for me was the moroso "marine" oil pan. It's a flat bottom 10qt pan with baffles, trap doors all that fancy stuff. It solves 90% of oiling problems for the Olds in a boat!
@@williamstamper442not to mention that the marine and agricultural 455 make the very best base to build a 455 race motor. Other than that you would need to go dig under the hood of an old Toronado.
Definitely enjoy these historical tidbits Tony. Thank you for taking the time. Would love to hear about AMC next.
If it wasn't for Joe Mondello, there really wouldn't have been any active aftermarket support for Oldsmobile. He was the true ground-breaker that opened the door for Edelbrock, Weiand, and even later DRCE (GM) to take hold of the Olds engines and bring them into a more competitive state with the Pontiacs and Buicks.
Try looking for an Olds low block intake, Scarce.
I should have said aluminum intake. The stock iron one weighs about 900 lbs.
Joe Mondello was great but there was another company that specialized in parts for Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Buick parts as well, and I can't recall their name!! Some place I have a copy of their catalog from 1984, and they had a "kit" that made the valve train fully adjustable on an Oldsmobile Motor! The kit at the time cost $2500, and looked like the same parts off a Mopar engine with the "Rail" that held the rocker arms to it!! You'd place the arms on the rail then simply bolt the rail down to the 27 inch pounds that was required to hold it in place!! I want to say it was part of Gale Banks or something like that....BUT I know that is not true or correct, but this company was similar to his, offering "one off" performance to cars you wouldn't normally get parts for!! And that company is (I think) now out of business!!
I just remember the name of that old company......it was........Kenne Bell Parts!!
They built a number of one off parts for Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Buick, but they also have speed parts for Cadillac though limited in the 1980s!!
I always had a boner for 50's shoebox 88's and 68' through 70' cutlasses. Not to much more though......
Back in my youth, I had a 77 Pont trans am. Don't remember why the pont engine was taken out, but the car did have a 67 olds torinado 425 for awile, and it was an easy swap. lots of tourqe for the stock rear end gear ratio. always thoughtnthe valve rockers were the weak link. but below 5000 rpm, it would live. ps, a lot of 455 olds engines went into jet boats back then
My dad has had many oldsmobiles and so have i. He has a 71 442 drop top with a 455 stoker and ram air hood. My cousin had a 91 Toronado with a blown 3.8 v6 in it. it was wild fun my whole family has a olds story.
Great stuff! But, I'd like to see a series on each brand's GOOD points too.
GOOD point!!!
Yes Tony, please continue this series, I'm learning so much. We are a Chevy family but have owned a little of everything over the years and pretty much liked them all.
That explains the "not your father's Oldsmobile" advertising campaign. We towed cars back and forth from Arkansas to Shreveport with a large 4-door Olds/Rocket 350 and a tow dolly. Car was solid
Just ran across these last couple videos of you explaining some of the things about cars, and you are bringing back so many memories from my earlier days. Got away from cars awhile ago but GTOs were my main love. I remember once my buddy and I ran across one of those aluminum block olds that we always wanted to fiddle with, but it was locked up. Could have gotten it for a song and a dance. Back when you could get a starter car for a few hundred bucks. Gave away 2 GTOs and sold the 3rd one at fire sale prices.. got back from the military and couldn't get one without a remortgage. Good old days..
How I wish I still had my late father's 1979 Olds. It was a luxury land-yacht.
The guy at btr performance of bill popping wheelies in his sbo red cutlass was awe inspiring.
Growing up as a kid, my brother had a 72 Oldsmobile Cutlass. Bad ass ride.
With the internet for tips, a 68-73 Olds 455 is a straight-up torque machine, and not too shabby for horses. Port-matching the intake, heads, and added headers. (Get good long-tube primary headers.) Retune the carb and timing to the new setup. Now you have a legit nearly 500hp/ over 500lb torque motor without ever opening the engine. USE THAT TORQUE, and don't over-rev it, and it will last forever.
To this day, a car my dad had when I was a small child is still the coolest most bad a** muscle car I've ever seen. 1968 Hurst Olds. 455. It was smoky silver with black stripes.
Only 573 or so were ever built.
Hot rod from the factory and one cool and awesome car.
I think the original Hurst Olds had a smaller engine.
@@rogersmith7396 nah.. 455.
@@rogersmith7396 The first Hurst/Olds was the 1968 Hurst/Olds. It shared its body with the regular Oldsmobile Cutlass and 442, but had a unique Peruvian Silver and Black paint scheme. The Hurst/Olds was powered by a 390 hp (395 PS; 291 kW) @ 5000 rpm and a maximum torque of 500 lb⋅ft (678 N⋅m) @ 3200 rpm, 308° duration cam W-45 (without A/C) or 285/287° duration cam W-46 (with A/C), with a displacement of 455 cu in (7.5 L) Rocket V8, equipped with a single 4-barrel Rochester Quadrajet 4GC carburetor.[1][2] This engine was similar to the 400 hp (406 PS; 298 kW) W-34 455 engine offered in the Toronado and the 390 hp (395 PS; 291 kW) W-33 455 option available on the full-sized Delta 88. The W-45 and the milder W-46 engines differed in camshaft and cylinder head selection. The 455 was mated to a code OW three-speed Turbo-Hydramatic 400 transmission with console-mounted Hurst Dual-Gate shifter that permitted automatic or manually ratcheted shifting.[3
As an Oldsmobile engine enthusiast this is all correct, plus I would mention the huge combustion chambers on some models that made it a big task to get decent compression. And the lightweight castings with a bunch of material removed from the main web starting in 1977. The 403 would've been a world class hot rod motor if not for those two flaws. Still, I enjoy having a build that's unique and a little more of a challenge. 325+ horsepower out of a 350 is possible with few mods if you follow the W31 template.
I have a 403, w '70 350 heads, and I've heard about the open webs, has anybody ever heard of a problem because of the open main webs? I haven't. IMHO the force is mostly downward on the main cap. There must have been '79 trans ams that got flogged
The only thing I don't understand out of this video is the comment about head gaskets....I never heard of any tendencies to blow head gaskets on olds v8's (except for the diesels). At least 15 years ago I forgot to turn on the fans and had my 76 350 up to 260+ degrees and somehow it didn't blow anything up (though I had a heater core and a few other cooling system failures shortly after that).
Spent a lot of time reading the olds forums back in the day and I know about all the oiling system deficiencies (my engine is basically stock so it's never been an issue) but never seen anything about head gaskets, or oil sludge for that matter. My engine was spotless inside when we pulled it from the junkyard.
@@tomcrosby6332
All the research I did said it wouldn't matter until you're going above like 5500rpm.
Personally I have a solid main web 76 motor but my backup is a 77 windowed main block in 77 Cadillac Seville.
Another great vid, UT. It brings to mind 2 different thoughts. One is a memory of a friend of mine back in the late 80's who bought a black Olds 442 with a 350 Rocket, he challenged me to race him with my 1970 Charger w/383 Magnum and finally we did. We had at least 3 different go's at it and although I beat him each time, I was quite surprised how his 350 Rocket kept up. We'd be neck-and-neck until about 40 or 50 mph and I'd start pulling away from him. That 350 Rocket had some balls!
The other thought is about what you said at the start of the video, about not being in a rush and taking your time to collect parts. My Charger sat in my garage (until this Christmas when it finally went for body & paint) for 2 and a half decades. But during all that time, whenever I saw a good deal on something--usually eBay, back when shipping from US to Canada wasn't such a righteous ripoff and even when the CAD was on par with the USD for a few years--I would snap it up. Sidemarkers, hood signal indicators, taillight finish panel, front valance, a front bumper at a swap meet, you name it...and although those things weren't exactly cheap in their time, they were a helluva lot cheaper than they are TODAY. So all those years gathering parts is worth a goldmine today and when it comes time to reassemble everything on the car. And just knowing that the car is mostly complete gives me peace-of-mind. So yes, if you have decades to wait, by all means start collecting your parts whenever you stumble across good deals. Don't wait until the end when you have to source all the hard-to-find parts, pay an arm and a leg and possibly a third appendage, because it'll kill you.
My first car was a 1970 Buick GS455 .I ran a 70 442 W-30 and got him by a fender length and I had an open 3.42 rearend.
I was coming up thru he 50's & 60's. Nobody ever thought ill of the Olds cars, performance or otherwise. Olds was a status symbol & a source of pride whether a loaded up 98 or a Cutlass 442. People did not badmouth Oldsmobile.
Olds and Pontiac use fewer head bolts (10 on each head) because they knew to go to the stronger wall in the block, and you can TORQUE these bolts down (Pontiac is 90 ft-lbs.). Chevy has many more bolts with only 60 ft-lbs because they went to the weaker wall and you run the risk of warping the deck with any more torque. So which is the smarter design? Which saves cost in number of head bolts used?
Well obviously the sbc and bbc.
More head bolts and less torque. Better clamping and sealing? So why does it matter that the bolts used less torque? To argue a better design strictly out of the amount of torque used for the bolts is nonsense.
@@jackward-ci4je , they need more bolts with lower torque because the engine block wall they go to is weak and will warp the deck. Do you call that intelligent design? I maintain the EVERYTHING Chevrolet Engineering did is fundamentally flawed in engineering. Maybe they should have stuck with the Stovebolt Six, that seems to have been their peak.
The car I drove in high-school 1989-1991 , an affordable 1973 olds Cutlass S , swivel buckets console, Chrome hood vents
1 yr only car , 1 finger steering , the car would just float so smooth , 350 4 barrel dual exhaust , usually at least 5 kids cruisin in the Cutlass and it would still spin the tires and the intimidating sound of that dual exhaust with turbo mufflers and the quadrajet bog .
It was so bad ass for us kids at that time , mostly the newly found freedom , cool parents , loss of virginity , mostly cool hippie era teachers ,man ( the 80's )
Shortly after high-school 1992 and up the kids went to the loud muffler 4 banger mini trucks and cars , cop's teachers and parents got more strict because society wasn't as cool as it was in the 80's and very early 90's
I've had several 73 Cutlass's since and tried to recreate that time and place , not the same unfortunately
So now I'm building a 50's hot rod pickup .
We raced Olds engines for years and one problem we never had was head gaskets...
My buddy had a 68 "Ram Rod" 350 Cutlass W-31 with 3.91 gears....That Mid Size "boat" put the BIG HURT on many "rich kids" with Z28's, 340 Mopars and anything else it came up against. That car ran 13.60's @ 105MPH....with just good mufflers on it. The ram air scoops took a beating on driveways but, were still avalible for $35/side....No one really noticed those scoops....That should have given them warning....Never heard that Warren Johnson story.....Don't believe it! WJ started his Pro Stock career racing a Big Block Camaro. Olds came in offering $$$ to run their bodies in NHRA and Warren developed the DCRE "Big Block Chevy" variant of a Pro Stock motor using Oldsmobile $$$ to fund his project along with factory support. DCRE stands Drag Competition Racing Engine...basically cylinder heads to fit a Big Block Chevy with Oldsmobile emblems on them. Olds also sponsored SCCA Trans Am and IMSA race cars, and that body had great aerodynamics on it.
Very interested to read your comment. Obviously Old's had under car air scoops to feed cool air to the engine on some models of W-31 cars? Or is it the "Ram Rod" designation that got the under car cool air set up? Never heard of this so any additional info would be welcomed. From someone who owns a '65 Cutlass even!
@@NoStringsAttached777 68/69 W-31's had a small decal on the fender saying "Ram Rod 350" the regular 350 four barrel Olds was 310HP and the W-31 was what they call "Select Fit" motor....In otherwords it was factory "Blueprinted" the piston clearances were looser, had a GIANT CAM same as the 400 cu/in W-30 motor and the large valves of the W-30 along with a special Q-Jet carburator. The W-31 was rated at 325HP....That was a gross under-rating on Oldsmobile's part. W-31's were Stock Eliminator TERRORS at the Drag Strip.
Just caught a few of these segments and ton's of memory's came back. I once owned a 70 olds toronado. Bought it from my parent's"dad"for $500 back in 82/3. It sat for a short time back when gas jumped to 85 cent a gallon. Oh my!! By the way, my dad was good with a wrench.He could cold start a engine and tell you pretty much what's up inside. He kept it in "fine" condition. So then l put $1000 into up grade's like new boot's, new flywheel. you know the lope on the stroke. Put new exaust and a major tune up with a pair of THRUSH at the bumper. A new quad4brl, new brake system. First whte letter "COPPER'S"no less. IT WOULD FLY! It did'nt scare you like a camaro would but you knew you were moving swiftly.... Never in a spin. Ever. And it would boil the front if you stepped on it too. Just curious. Did you spend any time on the "TORONADO" ? In my opinion. This was DETROIT MICHAGAN AT IT'S BEST!!! That GM Feeling. 8 track, ac, tilt, power seat's. Push button wiper's. But sadly, like you said could fail. #3 passenger side cylinder died and so did my car. And l later let the car get away from me with help from my brother.pos. JUST IMAGINE. INDY CAR TYPE DRIVE TRAIN BUT IN FRONT. AND STEER! WTF! AND IN MY OPINION the 1970 OLDSMOBILE TORONADO 455 "HO"was the finest ULTIMATE sleeper hot rod that Old's ever made. sorry to ramble...
Forgot about the Tornado. There is someone who lives about 45 minutes from me who collects GMC motorhomes. The last time I drove by he had about a dozen of them. When I lived in Colorado the Tornados were kind of the top dogs in the Pikes Peak Hill Climb. I think the road where they raced was all dirt. The front wheel drive really worked for that event. I saw one of them at a car show for wounded soldiers at the local Army hospital. The owner had somehow managed to convert the trans to a 4 speed instead of the standard auto.
@@karlbishop7481 See Jay Leno.
I grew up in the garage of a life long Oldsmobile fan, but my dad NEVER raced.
My dad just lived for a good smooth, highway ride.
He had every Oldsmobile from 1951 to 1959 inclusively.
But since he never raced, I did not grow up seeing them as a race car.
Yes, my older brother did race one of them a little bit before he [to his own rue] traded it for a Chevy truck, but he did not race it much, nor did he race it against real race cars because we both knew it would never beat a real race car.
We just raced against other kids who ran what they brought, but none of them ever built their engines, and in the end, the only advantage we had was that our dad meticulously built engines up to at least factory spec and tuned them very well, while those kids ran their cars and never ever worked on them as they didn't have a clue how to.
While the first ever engine I rebuilt [age 7] was a 1952 Oldsmobile Rocket 350, I honestly just pulled parts, cleaned them, made sure that they were in good condition [cylinder honing, valve lapping, replacing bearings, and the simple stuff, nothing 'real' like I do now], so I really gained nothing in the way of a race building education then.
Now I run only MOPARs and I meticulously tune every tiny little thing.
Not to disrespect my dad, but as you said, the Oldsmobiles were just not that great for racing, and nobody I knew ever did it.
It was Chevy small block, Ford small block, or MOPAR big block back in the day [except one guy who had a Plymouth valiant with a 318] and that was just sort of the 'understood way of the universe' back in the day.
I've owned both small and big block MOPARs, and I honestly prefer the low end torque and some tall gears [highway], over high end horsepower and short gears, because I can get more launch, with less complicated suspension modification.
In other words, with a good high torque engine, I can ride the lower gears as much as I need to, but ride the higher gears to prevent wheel slip with a stock wheel on a stock chassis, with a stock suspension.
If I ever go build a purpose built engine, and car, I will definitely take everything I have learned over the years, and make a purpose built car that has the best of everything I can get though.
If I were to build an Olds, it would be a 455, but I would put as many gears behind it as I could, to keep it in its torque band, and not try to wind it all the way out.
But then I've never been a believer in winding engines all the way out, because I can't afford to be replacing blown up engines.
many years ago my sister had a 67 with a 425?.a low rpm torque monster.the 2bbl carb was miniscule compared to the huge intake WIDE manifold.
Keep this series going Uncle T.
God bless you Uncle Tony. You're awesome. I've been a mechanic for 50 yrs, mostly GM dealers, and I didn't know a lot of this stuff.
The 425 Rocket was bad ass
Had a 1966 Olds with the 425 4 barrel High compression back In 1974. Incredible engine!
@@basilcarroll9729 My buddy in high school had a 66' with a 425, that thing would smoke my T-Bird with the 429 Thunderjet and that thing was fast, not much would keep up with it.
DR. OLDS!!! Oldsmobile had some incredible offerings.
Loved my 1966 442 convertible, got it back in 1976, it had blown engine, also first engine replacement I ever did, my old man was a mechanic, we did it together, later I became a mechanic. Anyway I had 5 engines in this car in 6 years, finally got a 455 1971 factory engine that lasted. All the earlier engines had bottom end problems, what was the issue with the 400cids. Thanks for the history lesson, that olds is still in the family, love the pod's keep up the good work.
I put Oldsmobiles and Buicks in the same category...they had one body to use as a muscle car.. the Cutlass and Skylark... Made the best of them though.
Hi Uncle T!
I have a '48 pontiac Silver Streak which has an Olds 403.
I like this Tony. You could even go deeper and really break down motors into their strengths, weaknesses and differences in different motors.
I got olds 350 which is build with time and money, I use 7 (small A) heads and the drain back holes were almost completely plugged with goo and burnt oil, I cleaned the holes and smoothened the edges of the holes, with 7 quarts pan never had an oil pressure problems.
72 350 rocket. Great running engines !
My buddy bought a rusted out 69' Olds 98 with 50,000 miles, that thing would boil the tires at any speed under 40mph, he put the engine in an 85 Chevy K20 pickup, perfect vehicle for that engine. Torque for days.
I think olds were probably some of the most reliable old v8s. The technology was defiantly being pushed by gm through olds. The valve rotators, building the first high compression ohv v8 in 49. The electronic ignition in 67. They run so smooth. I have a 455 vista, 350 cutlass and 425 delta. Also the combustion chamber design and valve angle made them very fuel efficient. Many people got 22 mpg with their 350 cutlasses. I personally have gotten 20.5 with my 2 barrel 350 cutlass. Oldsmobile was actually the only brand to still hit cafe standards in 1990 with a carburetor. Very efficient, reliable and could make some real power, but the oiling issue and the image issues didn’t help.
68-72 old's small blocks are a superior design compared to a small block Chevy in my opinion. if they had a better aftermarket I would build them over a Chevy. oiling problem is a myth
I’ve got a 1965 Oldsmobile F85 Cutlass with the Olds 403 ci engine / a few goodie’s in it . Thanks for the video on Oldsmobiles , you have very interesting videos on cars and engines. many thanks keep up the great work.
One of my favorite cars of all time was a 72 Olds Cutlass Supreme with the 350 Rocket... That thing was such a torque monster it ate through 4 motor mounts in a year time span...
Thanks for the info on Oldsmobile's history I've always ran them on the track and road . There is a lot tricks to make them to live on the track. Anyways its more fun to make something that was slow to go faster
BINGO! Absolutely right about the RPM issues. To this day people try to rev an Olds to much when they are use to Chevy. We make our power down lower. The large journals also cause higher speeds on the bearing surface.
olds motors don't need to rev high they are low rpm torque monsters
I agree with both of you. However I do want to say the big journal mains are not quite a critical issue as we have been led to believe. Reason I say this is because pontiac have 3in mains too and poncho 455's have 3.5 mains. But back to the 3in in say a 400 inch pontiac... The same architecture but in aftermarket aluminum pontiac style is what powers big chief's crow, which makes what...2500-3000+ hp!
With the aftermarket rocket racing Olds block I don't see any reason somebody with money couldn't build a true Olds based design for similar performance with the limiting factor being cyl head flow..
Just something to think about.
The 3inch mains would be less of an issue for even a stock block olds if one has deep enough pockets for an aftermarket od cut crankshaft, aluminum rods, a really good piston with modern thin metric size rings...
you get the idea, to reduce rotating weight and friction, also internally balanced of course. Also don't be afraid to run bearing clearances a little looser than we are usually used to and of course the standard oiling mods for Olds.
I like my Mopars and I've always liked my Oldsmobiles. They are two very distinctly different animals. My Mopars have big blocks and zero options. The less options a Mopar has, the better. I relive my childhood when I drive it. My Oldsmobile has A/C, power windows, an under dash 8 track and a 455 torque monster with highway gears. I feel like an executive when I drive it. I'm not a kid and I'm not an executive. I love them both.
Had two 65 Olds F 85 330 Cutlass one in high school and totally rebuilt one for my son in high school with 4 speed... that car rocked ....
Uncle Tony I wish you would write some books. Your knowledge is far above most "well known " car guys.
From your days at cars illustrated till today would be volumes of books if you did this.
Thanks for the talent and knowledge you share with us.
Oldsmobile and Buick (442 and Skylark GS) were not targeted to youth. They were targeted to the upwardly mobile executives that could afford them. They WEREN'T cheap!
I bought a 67'olds 442. For $200,in 1983. No motor or transmission. I also bought a 66'olds vista cruiser wagon for $50. It had a 330 cubic in and 2 speed powerguild transmission.75 miles an hour in low gear in a 1/8 mile. 373 posi reared. What a screamer.