Thanks for subscribing to the channel! We just passed 17,000 in 6 months! You rule, let me know if you have any questions and don't forget to enter to win the patchbay and label giveaway!
I do have one additional question, though. Besides having more patch opportunities in one rack space, is there any other advantage of using TT verses 1/4 inch? (Like voltage, clarity, reliability, etc)
My brother and I are in a northern Minnesota based band called The Brothers Burn Mountain, and for the last 3 years have been building a studio from the ground up. We are trying to figure out the best way to connect iso room, main floor and control room. This was very helpful. Thank you! I have been enjoying and learning from your videos for more than a year now. Cheers!
Hey Andrew, I really love your videos. I wanted to comment on the piece where you were explaining Mic/Line not to be critical, but hopefully to be helpful. I understand that you were speaking generally by saying Mic/Lines are the pathways for microphones. In the interest of clarity, Inputs on most if not all audio devices with preamps differentiate between “mic” level and “line” level signal as the circuits respond as gain for mic level, and trim for line level signals. Hence the “Mic/Line” input. I apologize if this came across as rude. I just wanted to give helpful contribution to the community.
Oh man, you guys made this at the perfect time, thank you so much Andrew. This pretty much demystified all my questions about a patchbay and how to use it. In my small studio, I am constantly swapping things around, plugging, unplugging and Daisy chaining. I’m ashamed to admit, the patchbay kind of scared and confused me 😂. But like most things in this process, it just took someone knowledgeable and articulate to come along at the right time and explain things and the clearest way possible. Now I totally feel like I can figure this out. Thank you!!
Andrew, thanks for this video because there is not a lot info of this type on the internet and this has help me a lot, anyway thanks for the great video's and great content over the years you helped me create a really awesome sounding studio, so I'am a Fan For Life !
I remember we used the ancient double jack patchbays at the ratio station I worked at in LA back in the 80s. The plugs were joined together with a bakelite shell. They are antiques and probably older than I am.
The patchbays use balanced connections and you are expected to use balanced patch cables (1/4” or TT with tip ring and sleeve). Using a tip sleeve or unbalanced cable, like a guitar cable, will result in the signal being unbalanced
What lights are you using on your desk? Been looking under your links on gear using and see nothing and under all of your links. Would love to grab me a pair Andrew
What about introducing line noise, or increasing impedance, reducing the signal strength? How does the patch bay deal with these audio quality problems?
Andrew, in the case of half normalling and we break the signal, so the signal now lives in two places (going down and going into the cable) - I get that, but what I always wanted to know : does this degrade the audio signal at all ? I would say yes as these patchbays are point to point, not buffered etc. Good vid, cheers
This works the same as a passive split or a Y…so it pretty much drops pro level signal by 3-4db (I think?) and can get messy with impedances and grounding, especially if you’re sending to disparate kinds of gear. Generally I’ve never seen anyone use a half normalled connection in a studio. There are special buffered splits (especially in live sound) for doing this “right.” TBH I think it’s a convention held over from the patchbays original use in telephony.
I switched from all TT to 1/4" about 15 years ago because my TT bays were all punch and ELCO and it made reworking bays a total night mare. I also was tired of building TT to 1/4" to adapt to plugging in floating gear all the time like synths, filters, guitar FX etc. The expense of TT cables and annoyance of adapting it all is not worth the space saving for me and the arguments about the connection being better hold no water in the real world. Soldering DB25 is a nightmare too because I have terrible eyesight, so I avoid it if I can. The only reason to go TT is space. If you have plenty of space, just go 1/4 trs. Not only are the bays a fraction of the cost, the cables are too.
Totally - a safer label for XLR lines would be mic/line outputs. haha I love that people who completely understand patchbays are watching a entry level video on the topic. Appreciate you chiming in.
This was asked by someone else in the comments, but it is the thing I don’t fully understand. Can phantom power pass thru the patch bay? Are there any concerns when doing this that could damage my interface or an external mic pre … of the mic itself?
It does pass phantom, although it is strongly suggested not to connect mics through a TRS patchbay. Connecting a TRS plug while phantom power is on will short the pins potentially damaging the preamp and/or the mic. Yes, you can make sure to turn phantom power off before making any connections, but someone will eventually forget to do so or simply turn it off for the wrong bank/channel. For peace of mind, keep the mic lines connected directly to the preamps or just use an XLR patchbay.
non-normal means nothing connects between top and bottom rows. If you wanna use the equipment connected, you MUST physically patch in and out of the unit.
I still do not understand why people buy this and why not 16 channels mixer or even two of them. I have 16 synths therefor I need two Mackie mixer. It allows me to run all of my synths at the same time if I want and just play with volume faders or mute buttons. How do you do this with patchbays? In a DAW with your mouse or touchpad? The feeling not even compareable think.
Are you punk'ing this kid? "Mic/Line" is a question, as in "Are you running Mic Level or Line Level?" . I've never called a signal a "mic/line"...maybe that's some Nashville stuff?
Mic/Line is a question of which signal you’re using, like you’re saying. “Mic Line” What he is talking about, is the lines/cables running from your mics to your patchbay or interface/preamps.❤🎉
Thanks for subscribing to the channel! We just passed 17,000 in 6 months! You rule, let me know if you have any questions and don't forget to enter to win the patchbay and label giveaway!
This literally has explained every question I have had in regards to patch cables and patch bays.
I do have one additional question, though. Besides having more patch opportunities in one rack space, is there any other advantage of using TT verses 1/4 inch? (Like voltage, clarity, reliability, etc)
My brother and I are in a northern Minnesota based band called The Brothers Burn Mountain, and for the last 3 years have been building a studio from the ground up. We are trying to figure out the best way to connect iso room, main floor and control room. This was very helpful. Thank you! I have been enjoying and learning from your videos for more than a year now. Cheers!
Hey Andrew, I really love your videos. I wanted to comment on the piece where you were explaining Mic/Line not to be critical, but hopefully to be helpful. I understand that you were speaking generally by saying Mic/Lines are the pathways for microphones. In the interest of clarity, Inputs on most if not all audio devices with preamps differentiate between “mic” level and “line” level signal as the circuits respond as gain for mic level, and trim for line level signals. Hence the “Mic/Line” input. I apologize if this came across as rude. I just wanted to give helpful contribution to the community.
I thought the same thing. Thanks for pointing that out.
Oh man, you guys made this at the perfect time, thank you so much Andrew. This pretty much demystified all my questions about a patchbay and how to use it. In my small studio, I am constantly swapping things around, plugging, unplugging and Daisy chaining. I’m ashamed to admit, the patchbay kind of scared and confused me 😂. But like most things in this process, it just took someone knowledgeable and articulate to come along at the right time and explain things and the clearest way possible. Now I totally feel like I can figure this out. Thank you!!
Andrew, thanks for this video because there is not a lot info of this type on the internet and this has help me a lot, anyway thanks for the great video's and great content over the years you helped me create a really awesome sounding studio, so I'am a Fan For Life !
Happy to hear it, enjoy the ride!
Awesome Video Andrew! Love the instructional videos like this .
Thanks for the info on patch bays. Just starting to acquire some hardware, so this is very timely, cheers Brad 🤓
Superb as always ! Big hug from Buenos Aires 🤝☕
Thanks again!
Just set up my first patchbay yesterday :)
I remember we used the ancient double jack patchbays at the ratio station I worked at in LA back in the 80s. The plugs were joined together with a bakelite shell. They are antiques and probably older than I am.
Can you do a video that shows a full setup of a TT patch bay with two interfaces? Like an Apollo twin and a focusrite 8 channel rack?
GREAT VIDEO
Thanks!
Very clear, thanks ! I've just realized something : where using "insert cables", you loose the balanced path, right ?
The patchbays use balanced connections and you are expected to use balanced patch cables (1/4” or TT with tip ring and sleeve). Using a tip sleeve or unbalanced cable, like a guitar cable, will result in the signal being unbalanced
Excellent explanation
What lights are you using on your desk? Been looking under your links on gear using and see nothing and under all of your links. Would love to grab me a pair Andrew
Finally get it....thanks!!
I'm going to be setting up a patch bay in my studio soon. This was really helpful. Will the patchbays pass phantom power for condensers no problem??
They do
What about introducing line noise, or increasing impedance, reducing the signal strength? How does the patch bay deal with these audio quality problems?
Andrew, in the case of half normalling and we break the signal, so the signal now lives in two places (going down and going into the cable) - I get that, but what I always wanted to know : does this degrade the audio signal at all ? I would say yes as these patchbays are point to point, not buffered etc. Good vid, cheers
Yeah I'm not sure, I would opt to only half normal line level signals. For example interface outputs, patching to cues, monitor controllers, fx etc.
This works the same as a passive split or a Y…so it pretty much drops pro level signal by 3-4db (I think?) and can get messy with impedances and grounding, especially if you’re sending to disparate kinds of gear.
Generally I’ve never seen anyone use a half normalled connection in a studio. There are special buffered splits (especially in live sound) for doing this “right.”
TBH I think it’s a convention held over from the patchbays original use in telephony.
What are your thoughts on the Flock Digitally Controlled Analog Patchbay?
How do you set the normal for the TT patch points?
Yes a home studio pathway hook up. This took years to come out 😆.
Does a balanced connection to unbalanced cause any issues while using a patchbay?
I switched from all TT to 1/4" about 15 years ago because my TT bays were all punch and ELCO and it made reworking bays a total night mare. I also was tired of building TT to 1/4" to adapt to plugging in floating gear all the time like synths, filters, guitar FX etc. The expense of TT cables and annoyance of adapting it all is not worth the space saving for me and the arguments about the connection being better hold no water in the real world. Soldering DB25 is a nightmare too because I have terrible eyesight, so I avoid it if I can. The only reason to go TT is space. If you have plenty of space, just go 1/4 trs. Not only are the bays a fraction of the cost, the cables are too.
well done
Very helpful 💯
Good info 🔥
I guess it depends on the patch bay but there is a very different, difference between “mic” and “line” and labels matter
Totally - a safer label for XLR lines would be mic/line outputs. haha I love that people who completely understand patchbays are watching a entry level video on the topic. Appreciate you chiming in.
@@itsstudiotime never a bad idea to keep on learning haha
can you pass phantom through the patchbay?
This was asked by someone else in the comments, but it is the thing I don’t fully understand. Can phantom power pass thru the patch bay? Are there any concerns when doing this that could damage my interface or an external mic pre … of the mic itself?
Yes phantom power passes through patchbays. Doing so does not damage anything, unless you patch it somewhere it shouldn't go.
It does pass phantom, although it is strongly suggested not to connect mics through a TRS patchbay. Connecting a TRS plug while phantom power is on will short the pins potentially damaging the preamp and/or the mic. Yes, you can make sure to turn phantom power off before making any connections, but someone will eventually forget to do so or simply turn it off for the wrong bank/channel. For peace of mind, keep the mic lines connected directly to the preamps or just use an XLR patchbay.
@@poxcrVery good point. Keep phantom power out of your patchbay.
Be in the fact that my studio doesn’t have a lot of hardware equipment I’m going with trying to use as minimal of a patchbay as I possibly can
Where did you get that heavy duty looking stand?
Are you talking about the little table the patchbays are sitting on throughout the video?
This might be the one, but more tutorials plz.
You didnt give a visual example on Non-normal... I was waiting for that EXACT demo...
non-normal means nothing connects between top and bottom rows. If you wanna use the equipment connected, you MUST physically patch in and out of the unit.
Does the audio get affected sonically if you use the tt cable (smaller/thinner one)? Anyone?
No.
I see that I have to rework my patch bay. It was daunting…
Great video, although it took you 13 minutes to mention the normal switches on the back.
can you use midi with these patch bay or do i need something else?
What you're looking for is a MIDI router. I have a 'Motu MIDI Express' and it works wonders. Google it, that should be what you're looking for.
I still do not understand why people buy this and why not 16 channels mixer or even two of them. I have 16 synths therefor I need two Mackie mixer. It allows me to run all of my synths at the same time if I want and just play with volume faders or mute buttons. How do you do this with patchbays? In a DAW with your mouse or touchpad? The feeling not even compareable think.
LOVE THIS CONTENT. ALSO WOULD LOVE TO WIN A TT PATCHBAY.
I would rather have the switches on the front.
Samson S Patch has the 1/4" with switches on the front. Only $100
Anybody make custom labels for the Black Lion patchbays?
I believe Trace Audio will have that option in the next day or so on their custom label designer.
@@itsstudiotime Patchcad also has options
umm mic and line are NOT the same!!! WTF???
Not referring to "line level" but lines as in paths. Mic lines.
Are you punk'ing this kid? "Mic/Line" is a question, as in "Are you running Mic Level or Line Level?" . I've never called a signal a "mic/line"...maybe that's some Nashville stuff?
Mic/Line is a question of which signal you’re using, like you’re saying.
“Mic Line” What he is talking about, is the lines/cables running from your mics to your patchbay or interface/preamps.❤🎉