Dual needle gauge - Prototype development
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- An informative accelerated video to show all steps of a prototype development, from the design to a fully working dual needle gauge interfaced with P3D.
Real time for development and interfacing : 10 days
Hope this will help some cockpit builders to create their own gauges ... even if it's far from being a tutorial !
Of course this is only a prototype, the final version will be released soon ... and will hopefully be interfaced with more specific drivers.
Note : Of course I've no bear at home (18:32) only some beers in the fridge !
Timeline :
- 3D modeling : 0:10
- PCB design : 1:21
- PCB etching : 3:46
- Plexiglass laser cut : 6:05
- 3D printed parts : 8:18
- Pattern printing : 10:02
- Pattern manual cut : 12:12
- Pattern overlay : 13:15
- Pattern glue : 14:06
- Pattern laser cut : 14:44
- Gauge assembly : 16:08
- Stepper test : 17:26
- P3D interface test : 18:43 - Наука та технологія
I really enjoy watching you work. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you very much Adolfo.
I am only 5 minutes in and this is an incredible video of the process. Thank you for putting it together! 😊
Thank you Mr Joe, happy to know you enjoyed !
Amazing work. Clean, effective, organized,smooth. Bravo...
Thanks a lot !
That is incredible on every level. Amazing job!
Thank you very much !
What a rollicking good time that was! I was absorbed in each stage of the process; and I felt not a nanosecond wasted. I am thinking of such gauges for an automotive application - everything I learned here will assist in my progress. Thank you for the experience!
Wow, thanks so much for such a comment ! All the best for you and your family in 2021 :-)
Frederic
What an amazing job you have done of that!! well done!!
Thanks Bart 🙂 !
Amazing! Flawless!
Wow, looks awsome
Thanks Timo :-) !
Very great fredric. My flight instructor was from france.
really helpful, nice job!
Thank you Stefan.
amazing...congrats
Very cool,Frederic !!!
Thanks Humberto ! Hope you success in your Falcon projects, we keep in touch by mail :-)
@@Frederic_320 Hello Frederic,
I'm just trying to set up the RPM, I watched all of your video, you have all the equipment, to develop your projects, very good work !!
Take Care, Frederic !!!
very very good work....
Thank you Florent !
Haha wow, I guess that was perfect timing regarding my commend and your new video :)
Right, I was about to publish this one when I saw your comment ! I hope you appreciate the smoothness and the speed of the X27 steppers :-)
Very nice! That's my Christmas present sorted then, a laser cutter. :)
Laser cutter : most important machine to own after a PC ;-)
Thanks for your comment !
good one!
Thank you Dave !
Nice work, I will try to make the same instruments for the B1900 cockpit plane, with x27168 stepper motor, VID6606 drivers and SG90 mini tower servos, my printer is an EPSON l800 inkjet, thanks for sharing your knowledge and you have one more subscriber on your list.
Thank you, I'm happy if any of my experiments can help ... And also having one more subscriber of course ! Good luck for your B1900, I love this aircraft too even if I don't know it very well.
AMAZING!!!
Thanks Carlos, I just received you very kind mail, I'm happy to see you're satisfied and hope to provide an easy and efficient interface soon as the last experiments were very positive. Don't hesitate to contact me if needed.
Have a nice week, I hope to hear from you soon !
@@Frederic_320As I said you, thank to you for your work. I have additional question. What kind of laser machine do you have? I see that is able to cut almost everything.
@@Albafer It's a basic 50W Chinese CO2 laser with a 50x30cm working area. It's sold on eBay for approx €1200 (it's the blue machine) and can be shipped from Europe. It doesn't cut "everything", only organic and plastic materials but no metal. It can cut for example 5mm plywood, 4mm acrylic, most EVA foam, papers ... and engrave almost any paint or non metallic surface. I wasn't sure when I bought it many years ago, it was a a significant investment for me but it's really a great machine and I couldn't prototype without it now ... More powerful lasers are also available, they are not very expensive but are too big and I don't have a lot of space in my house (which already looks more like a factory than a house !). For information, an air evacuation is required as the laser beam burns materials and produces a lot of toxic smoke.
Good afternoon! Great job! You do "Attitude indicator" and "Heading indicator" Cessna 172, if you show the process, it’s very interesting. Good luck to you!
Thanks for your comment. I'm not able to do these parts for now, but I recently discovered a very interesting YT channel for complex instruments such as horizon or turn coordinator :
ua-cam.com/channels/5OKDug2nJxtbaLb_rUR_DA.htmlvideos
Many thanks to WitherVII who found these incredible and open source gauges.
Fredricbu thought you order the pcb in China.i did not know h made them bu yourself. I enjoy watching your work. Rea.lybgreat job man
The first PCB for the prototype is made at home, once validated it's put in production in a Chinese factory.
Superbe job!
Bon, il faut du matos d'impression et un peu de finesse dans les découpe assemblages! Mais le résultat est bluffant!
Bravo! J'aimerai savoir faire tout ça!
Merci ! J'avoue que sans matériel, c'est un poil plus compliqué ... mais jouable, j'ai commencé avec des piques à brochettes et de la pâte à modeler pour faire des empreintes d'aiguilles moulées en résine ! Cela dit, c'est agréable de regarder les machines travailler à sa place 🙂
You do awesome work! Can you describe your etching process? It looks to me you purchase the copper laminate, then paint the copper, then laser away the paint, then etch? Can you use regular spray paint? What solution to etch? I often need one off boards...Thanks!
You have perfectly understood what I've done : paint a non sensitive copper plate, laser away the paint around traces and etch with iron perchloride. I'm using a very common spray paint, the less expensive as possible as I just want it to protect unetched copper parts. The only problem is there is still a thin layer of burnt paint on copper after engraving, so I have to clear it with an insert cleaner product. But now, to avoid these chimicals products, I often engrave my boards with a CNC machine.
Fredric are all your gauges already complete? What gauges are you done with? Is there already in stock?
I recently posted links to your videos on the Cockpit Builders Forum, very good for those not so skilled as yourself. Can you please tell me what program you use for PCB design? it looks like you're using Fusion 360 for modelling and output to your laser, (same as mine) with Corel Draw? I use RD Works myself. Very nice videos, and meticulous attention to detail by the way... well done!
Hello Joe,
Thank you very much for your interest and for sharing this video.
I'm really not "up-to-date" with my PCB designs, I'm only using the old and free ExpressPCB software. The most difficult task is to convert the files files to gerber to produce pcb, I'm wasting a lot of time in that conversion. But I'm familiar with it and never took enough time to learn a new PCB design software.
You're right, I'm using Corel Draw to send the files to the laser. I'm not using RDWorks, just the Corel plugin which was provided with the laser.
Feel free to contact me directly by mail if needed,
Hope to hear from you soon !
Best regards,
Frederic
Amazing job!!! . The backlight looks great, what type of leds do you use?
Thank you for your comment. I'm using 3528 SMD leds, warm white.
@@Frederic_320 Thanks very much!! Nice day!
Great job fredric. Just please do not forget me this time . Hahahahaha
Thank you, I'm just waiting for your mail as I wasn't able to trace our previous discussions. Single needle gauges are actually in stock, this one should be sold next month. Hope to hear from you soon by mail !
@@Frederic_320 dear fredric can you please any gauges you make keep me one or two please? I will them all together at the end when you are shipping them together. Would it ok with you ?? Like this I do not need to pay constantly shipping for each gauges separately. I cincerely appreciate. I hope to finish all the gauges as soon as possible.
Awesome work, but I have a question as to why you use paper any mylar for the face? The mylar certainly makes sense for the glossy finish, but the paper portion doesn't make sense to me. Also, what printer are you using? Is that laser or inkjet? Keep up the good work !!
Thank you for your comment and questions. The two layers are mainly used to obtain opaque enough black color. With only one print, I clearly see light spots through black parts. The white paper is also useful to obtain clear white numbers and scale. The PMMA diffusing plate is not white enough where the transparency film is not printed. My printer is a Canon MG7550 inkjet printer.
Beautiful work!
Are you using diodes with the steppers or direct to the arduino?
Thank you. I wired the steppers directly to the arduino without any protection diodes. My validating process is very technical : make the motor move 24/24 and if nothing burns and the Arduino is still working after 7 days, I assume diodes are optional ;-) Seriously, as you can imagine I have no particular knowledge in electronics but everybody highly recommands using diodes, so don't follow my example ...
Heh! Everyone talks about using diodes, I've yet to actually see anyone using them! I suspect that the coils in the Switecs are too small to do much damage.
Frederic, this work is stunning. Do you have a website for purchasing your 3d print stl files?
Thanks for your comment, feel free to contact me directly by mail for further information.
The X27s can actually be driven directly with the 40ma logic pins. There is no micro stepping but their resolution is good enough without it.
Thank you Arthur for your comment, it will be useful for people who want to interface these steppers directly. I first tried that way, then with A4988 but I still found the motors a bit noisy. Finally I managed them through VID6606 drivers, and I noticed a better behavior. But I agree with you, it's possible to drive X27 directly without problems, they are perfect for experiments.
Frederic,
Great job you are doing. thanks for sharing.
Where did you get the dual axis stepper instrument? I have been trying to source them, but only found them available if I purchased 50 or more.
I would like to get hold of only 3 of them.
Peter
Hi Peter,
What do you mean exactly with "Dual axis stepper instrument" ? I'm only using X27-589 steppers which can be found easily. I'm usually buying them in China by 10 or 20 pcs, but I see they are also sold by 6 or by unit. I would like to help you and send some pieces, but shipping cost from my country is quite expensive and would be higher than the motors themselves ... Feel free to contact me directly by mail if needed, thanks for your interest. Take care, best regards.
Hi Frederic
Sorry. I was a bit to quick. The type of stepper Im after is the one with 2 concentrical shafts. Like this one. www.jukenswisstech.com/products/x40/
Im not going to use it for a simulator, but I guess it would be good for an altimeter.
If you comes across a source for this type feel free to drop me a mail with a link at peterpeter844@gmail.com
Great videos by the way
@@peterlm844 this motor X40 stepper only rotate Angle of rotation with internal stop 315 Degree not 360 degrees continuous, it would not be useful to make an Altimeter instrument, it cannot make it work in continuous rotation, it must have a position sensor of each needle or zero point at each start of the simulator.
Hi frederick, it works also in xplane?
Hello, i was wondering which software you use for the conception? It looks like CATIA but im not so sure. Anyway brilliant work 👌🏻
Hello, thanks for your comment, happy to see you enjoyed my videos :-) I'm working with Fusion 360 but 3D animations were made with SolidWorks.
How do you choose the stops for the steppers?
Hello Kevin, and thanks for your comment. The stops are physical stops inside the motors themselves. When assembling the gauge, I manually turn each motor to the stop and place the hands at the lower position I want. At 19:12 you can see both hands turning outside the gauge, they are reaching the physical stop (always the same) then turn right to the correct position. The code only says "Turn left for a long time" (I'm sure the physical stop is reached, so I know the position of the hands) then "Turn right for x steps" (to the initial value of the gauge).
Sorry if I'm not very understandable, English is not my native language ...
How do the stepper motors know the zero position after disconnecting them from power?
Hello, the steppers I'm using have a physical stop, they cannot make a full 360° rotation. So I'm just hitting the physical stop at start so I know the exact position. I'm also using IR sensors in some models where I need a continuous rotation.
Nice work.
Wouldn't micro servos be better for gauges with travel less than 180 degrees? They're driven by PWM signals in the background, so don't require the processor overhead that steppers do.
Hi, thanks for your comment. I tried micro servos at the beginning, but I found them too loud. The other problem is I'm trying to make my parts as generic as possible. As I also need full turn steppers for other gauges, I can have a unique PCB for both internal stop and full turn motors, which is an economy of time and money ... But you're right, servos are also working very well. They have a much higher torque and no sensor is needed to know their position, so they have many benefits. Everything is a question of choice, and every choice has pros and cons ...
What do you use the step driver?
Why I'm using a stepper driver ? Just to get smoother moves and limit current driven through Arduino output. But the driver used in the video is a very bad choice, for such low current motors. VID 6606 is much better for X25 steppers.
But X25 stepper also works directly plugged on the Arduino.
Dear Frederic your single needle is good for how many cessna 172 instruments? 1_ airspeed 2_ heading indicator3-vertical speed indicator4_ RPM ammo right? Because I need to know how many ineed. Also this new instrument gauge oil fuel and what abouttemperture? So in case of single needle I need 4 and engine instrument I need 4
The 83x83 kit can be used for the C172 IAS, VS and RPM (without hour counter).
The 60x60 dual needle kit can be used for Fuel quantity (L/R), EGT/FF, Oil (Temp/press) and VAC/AMP.
... curious, have you been able to integrate gauges like this into MSFS2020 ?
Unfortunatly no, I don't own FS2020.
Bonjour, quel travail magnifique. Vous m'inspirez pour mon propre cockpit. Quelle version de coreldraw utilisez vous ? Je vois qu'il en existe 3.
En vous remerciant, Thierry
Bonjour Thierry, merci pour votre commentaire. De mémoire ma version est Corel Draw X7. Bonne continuation dans vos projets et excellentes fêtes de fin d'année à vous.
@@Frederic_320 bonjour, merci bcq de votre réponse je vais voir si je peux encore le trouver. Passez de bonne fêtes, et à bientôt. Thierry
17:26 comment réalisez vous le calage de l'aiguille gauche et droite à "zéro" ? en butée maxi vers le bas ?
c'est juste Woha !
Bonsoir Philippe,
Merci pour votre "Woha" !
Effectivement, je réalise le calage en butée physique (du moteur) vers le bas, mais cela pourrait tout aussi bien être fait vers le haut comme pour certains compteurs de voiture que l'on voit aller au maximum puis revenir à zéro au démarrage. Donc le moteur de gauche va en butée dans le sens horaire, celui de droite dans le sens anti-horaire. Je cherche actuellement à intégrer un capteur IR dans les instruments ce qui serait plus précis, mais je manque un peu de place sur le circuit ...
So what kind of software did he produce the prototype in, anyone know? I saw Kicad for the PCB, what was the other, please?
I've used :
- ExpressPCB for the PCB;
- SolidWorks / Fusion360 for 3D models, 3D animations, DXF exports and STL generation;
- CorelDraw for 2D designs (including pattern), and laser cut;
- Arduino IDE for programming.
@@Frederic_320 Thank you, you are very kind to mention that.
When a video makes your realise you have a larger skillset you are thinking ! I didn't think about putting together my skills on such nice project level (kscape, Fusion360, Trotec laser cutter, Prusa 3d printer, Epson printer, Arduino...) I am now :)
You tell about 10 days from start to end . You mean on your free time ? 3hrs a day ?
Thanks DeltaFox for your comment. 10 days were on my free time, but during my holidays ... When I am on such a project, I prefer working complete days because I never know what will happen ... Considering 3D modeling and printing, PCB design and factoring, assembly, programming Arduino ... I think the whole project took about 10 full days. I know, I'm not working fast and errors are usual when I'm designing new things. The video only shows what was successful but it's not very representative of the real world ;-)
Really nice work and result--thanks for sharing. One thought: Do you think an LED placed near the needle-pointer shaft would allow the needles to light up more as the look dimmer than the gauge-face? Also, could you share your Arduino-code to drive the X27 steppers? Thanks Again!
Hello, thanks for your comment. I haven't done a lot of experiments on needle lightning, but mine are resin 3D printed and does not transmit light. Perhaps it would be possible with acrylic needles, but the manufacturing process would be more difficult : 2 parts to be glued, one for the shaft and one for the needle, very thin acrylic needed, how would we obtain white needles ?... No idea if it would be better. But you're right, in a dark night, my needles are not visible as they should. The second option is, as many manufacturers does, to light the gauge from the top, in the glass thickness. But I prefer backlight for the graduations. Perhaps a mix of backlight + a front led ?... Have to be considered and tested.
The Arduino code depends on how you plan to manage your steppers. Sometimes I'm wiring the motors directly on the Arduino outputs, or I'm using specific drivers (VID6606), or as I did in that video with A4988 drivers. The code will change either you need to manage coils or a step/dir signal. Feel free to mail me for more information, I'll send you a sample code matching with your hardware.
@@Frederic_320 Thanks for replying. I have used white-PETG and got a SMD white-LED to transfer light pretty well, so you might just try pointing one near the shaft-to-pointer interface--might beat nothing.
I have several Arduinos and an X27 GM instrument panel stepper motor. I do not have drivers yet but could purchase. Which are the quiet drivers?
Thanks Frederic!
@@SpinStar1956 Thanks for the advice, I'll have a try :-). In my opinion, the quietest drivers for X27 steppers are the VID6606 (or STI6606, I don't see any difference in their datasheet). There is still a low noise, but I have the feeling that some vibrations of the motor are amplified by the PCB as it is directly soldered on it. I'll try to place a thin foam sheet between the stepper and the PCB to see if I can completely remove all noises ...
@@Frederic_320 Thank you, I’ll have a look! 👍
@@SpinStar1956 No pb, sorry for the delay :-)
Why is the photo paper layer necessary?
Hello Kyle, thanks for your interest. I need two printed layers to obtain enough opacity. With only one layer, I can see some light leak through the black parts of the pattern. Why one is white and the other transparent ? Just for the white parts (lines) of the pattern. If only I could get a high opacity with only one layer, but keep transparency to backlight white and colored parts, it would save many hours and fails ... But unfortunately I've never found the grail printer which can print with perfect opacity.
What is the brand and model of your 3D printer?
The 3D printer you can see at 8:20 is an old CEL Robox, but I'm not using it anymore. I have now a Geeetech i3 pro B for filament, and a Longer3D Orange 30 for resin.
@@Frederic_320 Thanks! Love your workk!
Guten Morgen und es tut mir leid, Sie wieder zu stören. Können Sie mir sagen, welche Marke von Sprühkleber Sie verwenden? Hier auf Mallorca (Balearen) finde ich nur Sprühkontaktkleber.
Ich danke dir sehr.
Hello Miquel,
I'm using a very common multipurpose adhesive spray which is clear. Mine is manufactured in France and it's probably not available in other countries, but if you want to contact me by mail I'll give you a link to a product which seems very similar. That said, there is no mechanical force on the glued parts, so I think it's possible to use almost any adhesive spray as long as it is clear.
Best regards,
Frederic
@@Frederic_320 The inconvenience you are taking is appreciated, I will see if I find something similar and if I do not contact you.
Thank you so much and Happy New Year.
I think your end result is awesome, tho I wonder how visible the needle is in dark conditions .. have you not found a way to light the needle too ? That would make them perfect to 100%.
Thank you Philippe for your comment.
You're right, you've pointed here a possible improvement : in the dark the needle is not very visible.
- Designing illuminated needles was in my projects, but it makes the factoring process more complicated than 3D printing : laser can only cut plane parts.
- I tried 3D printing with clear resin, not enough light transmission.
- I also could buy already made needles which can be illuminated, but if so I won't be free anymore to get the shapes I want.
- Another possibility will be to add one or two leds in the bezel to light the inside part of the gauge. I think it's the best option, but I have no time to develop it.
Have a nice week, good flights 🙂
@@Frederic_320 I just re-watched the video ... I wonder what it would give if you had put 1 led, slightly tilted, as close to the needle base as possible ... I think it could work, no ? What happens if you hold a working led to 1 side of the needle shaft while your gauge is assembled ? Can you test that ? I think it doesn't need much ... just as long as the needle becomes visible in dark conditions, cuz in the end ... the needle is what you NEED to see on a gauge, right ?
where i can find the gauge pattern?
Hello Matteo,
I have no downloadable pattern online, but if needed I can provide it by mail. Feel free to contact me directly at the address shown in my logo.
@@Frederic_320 oh thanks so much you are very kindly,but i see that those draw Is not good for me,because i finding the c172 gauges.
P.s your work Is very very eccellente,you are a master
Hello, good morning, first of all I want to apologize in case I am creating inconvenience but I have just started with the simulation and I have many doubts.
One of them is that I see that you are using arduino for programming and I am not sure how the arduino communicates with the prepar3d, maybe you are using a lua script inside the fsuipc?
Thank you and sorry again for the inconvenience.
Hi Miquel, thanks for your comment, there is no problem ! You're perfectly right, I'm using a LUA script which runs inside FSUIPC and sends values to the Arduino board. But there are many ways to proceed, for example with the user-friendly MobiFlight interface (if you're using Arduino boards) or any other hardware (OpenCockpits is one of them) which needs its own boards and programming language (SIOC for OpenCockpits). Have a nice day, stay safe.
Sorry, I replied first with a wrong (private) account, that's why I've deleted both messages. If you need some basic LUA examples, feel free to contact me directly by mail.
Amazing! About 4800 viewers only. Hi-tech, pure knowledge. When someone shows your cat or your butt - 3 000 000 views. NWO xD
Thanks Marek, I'm happy to see a few persons are looking for something else than cats or butts on YT ;-) Fortunately my videos are not made for views only, but I'm really pleased to read comments like yours. Thank you very much.
Great Incredible, can you share the PCB´s please? my mail
Replied by mail, thanks Jorge for your comment.
Kind of a dumb question but
Would this work on a real car
asking for a friend
Hi Aaron. The motors come from the automotive industry, but I have no idea how a car control them. I assume there is a specific chip converting temp or speed information into signals for the steppers ?... But this kit is only a hardware component, there is no electronics onboard, that's why I need an Arduino board here. In a car, the problem would be to get the information (oil temp, speed, fuel qty ...) and to convert this information into steps. It's probably much more complicated than it is in FS where some lines of code are enough to get any information we need. So, with my little head and my poor knowledge in automotive instruments, i would be quite impossible for me to interface such a kit in a car. Sorry, it would have been a nice idea ! (but I already though creating gauges for cars or trucks simulators :-) !)
@@Frederic_320 I think I do have a clear idea of how it would work
The engine has sensors that send signals to the ECU (aka the brain of the engine) and basically send voltage signals to the cluster
I think it would be easy to wire it in, but I'm not sure if it would be accurate or not
Still, thank you for the information
Theres a WWII bomber styled gauges for hotrods around the internet, but the whole kit costs a grand so.... I'm kinda looking for DIY options
Can you please make a video about the test rig @17:49? I think that is just as interesting as the gauges! Do you have potentiometers on it to test the input signal?
Hello Kyle, my "test" phase only turns the steppers at different speeds to different positions. When I design a new gauge, I make a test loop like this one and I let the gauge move for about 24h. After that, if everything is still alive and the zero position is still correct, I assume the gauge is reliable ... I don't have potentiometers, just some lines of code and the ability to manually enter values from the Arduino Serial monitor to calibrate positions. If needed I'll send you some samples of code as I think we'll stay in touch by mail ...
Hi can share decal sticker
Here it is : laapsimtech.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/Share/pa-60D-01.pdf
@@Frederic_320 thanks.. appreciate.
What software are you using to design the models?
Thanks for your comment Michael. 3D models are made with Solidworks (in this video) or Fusion 360, 2D with CorelDraw and PCB with PCB express.