The funny thing about all of this is that MoFi isnt they only one . They were the first to get caught. I am sure other record issue companies are doing the same
This is what I posted on dagogo site Sandro Ioia August 16, 2022 at 8:15 pm Ignorance is bliss they say. After learning of the news of Mofi’s use of DSD, it hardly mattered to me sound wise as many Lp re-issues are sourced from digital files. However I have bought LP’s that were recorded from the original master analogue tapes and those that were mastered to digital. The fact remains that I was given the choice to decide to buy an LP with the knowledge that it was an original analogue or digital source. Mofi has deceived there niche market and the audiophile community.
I think I was WAY more swindled by "Simply Vinyl" audiophile records than by any other audiophile record company ever could. I bought two Simply Vinyl $30 each and found that it was no more than an ordinary pressing done in 180 grams. Since then I've learned that if I see "180 Gram", it has to be from a company that I know to make real audiophile pressings and not just a bunch of jerks that thought they could pass off a regular pressing as "audiophile" just because it was 180 gram.
Correct. That may account for the reason they go to the trouble of plating and mastering a new vinyl record when makiing an SACD or putting out a digital file would be so much easier. Perhaps digital is best when played on vinyl...
This video appears to me as one of the most sincere of all the comments I’ve read. IT leverage the issue at the proper level. I can Feel your pain as a collector .
This was one of the most sincere overviews of this story I’ve seen. Very nice ✌🏻 but I think it’s silly when people don’t open their records. It’s the music imho.
You are correct of course. I have the problem that most of us have - not enough time to listen and way too much to listen to. I currently have over 8,000 lp's. Many are duplicates but I do try to listen to all of them. I bought all of the Mobile Fidleity CD's. I was taken with digital in the 90's and opened the cd's and listened.
Really good point - how many have heard the various master tapes in question these days! "The way the original artists/producers/engineers etc have quality-checked "everything" - before saying OK to a good enough test pressing (& ready for the mass-marked)
Great Channel! Here's my take on MOFI: you only want the "thin" pressings (standard thickness, early ones) , The EARLY UHQR's are great but NOT the later, post CD era issues. All the later pressings including the later UHQR's are clearly not the sound quality of the early pressings. (early meaning before CD's and Later meaning when they started up making records again after CD's became commonly used)
Find a good used TT. They have many for under a $100 in my area. If you can afford a Fluance or other with built in pre-amp you will be ready to go. Money problems blow big time. However, jump on in the water is excellent.
These disheartening MoFi revelations remind me of the old Piltdown Man scandal in the 1950's when it turned out that the worlds oldest human fossil supposedly discovered in the early 1910's (in jolly ol England) turned out to be a big fraud.
I'm 60, so I have many original MFSL pressings from the early days.When Music Direct resurrected MFSL (and renamed them MoFi), I always felt they were being disingenuous about their products.Just another symptom of being in the now.These days suck. If you launch a class action, let me know.I have 10 OneSteps unopened.
Having unopened OneSteps seems to be the norm. The farce of the article is that they suppose that most people regularly pull out a MOFI title and listen to it. It was not uncommon for people to spin a record one time and then store it away. They usually had a tape player going to make a copy. Many video's here on youtube compare MOFI titles with other releases. I fail to find a clear concensus that the MOFI releases were better than the others. Although some may have claimed that it was not a universally accepted truth - that the MOFI releases were superior to others...
Plus their main thing when they started was more directed at 1/2 speed mastering. And when Mo-Fi started they never claimed the limited copies where because they didnt want to play they tape again. In fact when they started the pressings where done from a stamper from a mother. Wilson didn't say it was the closest to the original master tape, he remixed and made a new master. Like I said in previous post Mo-Fi should have been more transparent but at that level of digital and that early in the record making steps you can't hear the difference at the record. Fact if you did an A-B of the tape and that level of digital nobody can tell. I understand the anger at Mo-Fi not dispelling the assumptions made by everyone, but law suit? Many,many things are unethical but not illegal. Really, it's still a superior record, tho I wouldn't pay that anyway. Santana play's Black Magic Woman just as good on my original copy as on my slightly better pressing and just as good as on the Mo-Fi. I do prefer records, there is a difference between them and CD's but I'm more obsessed with hearing music I like than the absolute best copy. If your noticing differences in the medium, your not fully engaged in the music.
You should go watch the video done last Saturday with Bernie Grundman, Ryan Smith, Chad Kassem and Michael Ludwig. I think the experts disagree with you strongly. They actually have master tapes and have extensive experience with both digital and analogue. The myth that has been spread - that digital is perfect and people cannot percieve a difference between analogue and digital is a bunch of -- you know what!
@@hifilive650 ya know what got me thinking was years ago listening to a CD then the record and the CD just seemed to be missing something, I've always been analog.But after recording lots of my records on CD to use in the car I started listening to them against the record on my home system, and was kinda surprised. I did not want to admit it but.... and that was just a home recorded CD. Granted it's a pretty good CD recorder but really got me re-evaluating things and studying more about placebo effect. One thing I've discovered is "audiophiles" just look the other way when faced with it. And pros have biases too and are not immune to it. And I did watch his interview. He never said he compared master tape to current DSD technology. I heard a lot of personal bias in his comments so I take it all with a grain of salt.
@@hifilive650 Another interesting thing is how many "audiophiles" said the one steps were the best sounding records they had heard, even argued that mo fi using a DSD master was totally false. Wasn't till after it was known that people came out and said "oh I knew something didn't sound right" BS. Something to think about, you can make a record of digital and it takes on record characteristics, make a digital of a record and it sounds like the record. It's the record we like the sound of. Where it was sourced is of much lesser importance. I'm not trying to promote digital, allway's been pretty anti digital. But just trying to see it more in the light of reality. And I never believed digital was "perfect". Something that caught my ear and didn't make sense was Bernie saying something about digital mainly being used for the audiophiles?
@@bradt.3555 They say ignorance is bliss. You will have to decide who is in bliss and who isn't. Go grab an equalizer and put a smile on it - it may put a smile on your face also. However, given time most of us have no use for the disco smile anymore - welll, except it appears MOFI is still using that to sell its wares. If you love the MOFI records then buy them - I would not have and will not be p[aying $125 for anything they produce. Good Day.
@@hifilive650 Good call on ignorance is bliss. No I don't even have bass n treble on my pre amp. Didn't say I love MoFi wouldn't pay 100 bucks for any record, analog or digital mastered. Now the one step process for making a better record makes sense, but just that will drive up the price, whether they run a tape or play a DSD file. Don't think MoFi tho has been accused of using a smile eq, but who knows. Audiophiles seem to be the ones to deny science and rely on highly fallible human perception. They once thought the eye witness was best, till science came along and also found 10 people would see something 10 different ways. But ya no, ignorance is bliss. I used to be analog only but thru learning removed some ignorance. I still like records but thats where the record sound comes from. I think MoFi should have been more up front but ignorant people made a lot of assumptions.
Acoustic Sounds, Speakers Corner and others don't seem to share your concern. There are still many who manage to use the master tapes and keep their chain analogue. Kevin Gray still seems to find plenty of master tapes to master from.
Master tapes usually are in good condition according to Kevin Gray, they are not that frail. Plenty of recordings are done from Master tapes and/from metal works like Analogue Productions got from Classic Records.
Good analysis. I concur. I never bought into the new record hysteria. This was the reason. IN MOST CASES, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. Most new records have no information as to the source used, but are still quite expensive. I will only pick something up if it is cheap. The only way to win at this game is not to play it. I suspect MOFI is not the only one engaged in this deception. They were just the first to get caught. As for scorning people who "can not tell the difference" I think the people saying this are being foolish, missing the point. This whole industry is tainted due to lack of transparency. That is the point. Caveat emptor
Hindsight is 20/20. Funny how most of the records I lsten to are either OG titles or they have a sticker stating plainly that there has been a full analogue chain. The others - I have fallen into collecting which MOFI is making me regret.
The fact is that you've invested so much time and emotion into this illusion, that 100% analog in distinguishable from digital, that it makes it impossible for you to see the criticisms of analog purists. In your video you compare digital to "synthetic" drugs and "faux" leather. There is nothing fake or synthetic about digital. It is simply the most logical and best way to store/preserve media, end of discussion. You've been brainwashed by years of thinking digital is a low resolution MP3 file. Of course they made a digital master from the tape! Of course! No company who owns these tapes is going to allow some company to run that original master over and over and over again to please some microscopic group of analog purists. They use a digital step because it is the only pragmatic way of doing what they do, and gives them the opportunity to produce that AMAZING sound. The sound you and other analog purists LOVED. The sound analog purists used to demonstrate how great analog can sound. Mobile Fidelity proved you can't distinguish the sound of a record cut from a great digital master and a record cut straight from the tape. You cant. You cant. Stop thinking you need an excuse to enjoy vinyl.
Oh, by the way, I think you should give us the name of the MOFI titles you believe are so awesome and which you listen to all the time. I only know of 2 that I actually listened to more than once- Marc Cohn and Brother’s In Arm’s. What are the titles you are so enamored with?
Actually, they could make a copy of the master tape, to tape, and use that, keeping it in the analogue domain. They feel that DSD 256 (specifically, so PDM not PCM) is able to capture the sound accurately (although they started with DSD 64). Then they perform all EQ in the analogue domain, so they are using it in a very specific way and are not converting it to PCM (DXD) and processing it digitally. So, this is a far cry from other digitally sourced music where it uses PCM and mastering is performed in the digital domain (Steven Wilson). So, there are different forms of digital, digital adds extra steps (A2D and D2A) and the mastering engineers (Bernie Grundman in particular) have highlighted how problematic digital still is; maybe DSD 256 is a breakthrough in this regard? I don't know. MFSL have different labels (Original Master Recording vs Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab), there is the Silver Label series etc. When people buy the Original Master Recording they expect that it is directly from the master tape to the lathe with a bit of analogue EQ. Had Mofi come clean about using DSD at the start, I don't think people would have had as big an issue. For some, they would just get the DSD, which Mofi also make, and others would still buy the records. People are angry because they were misled and no-one likes that. Sorry, there was a bit of rambling in there...
Mo-Fi used the original master tapes to create a digital copy. so the end result was sourced from original master tape, no mis-representation there. The entire process mixing, eq etc., of cutting the lacquer was done in the analog domain. Did they claim they were actually running the master tape as the were cutting the lacquer? not that I can find. Was it just assumed by the so called audiophiles? What does ass u me spell? Did Mo-Fi actually say there was no digital step anywhere, not that I've found. The limited number of pressings is because of using the father plate instead of a stamper made from a mother, (one step records). Not because they didn't want to run the tape again. Seems people made a lot of assumptions. Did Mo-Fi do anything to dispell these assumptions, no, but are they legally required to if they never actually made the claims and people just assumed? Not a very up front way of doing things but illegal, doesn't appear so. Fact is by the time you get to the record, nobody on planet earth could tell if they were running the tape or a digital copy.
@@hifilive650 i heard santana abraxas is digital. I have heard the original scratchy version that blows all the others away. Only the original version. I would not have any version but the original scratchy one.
I have 4 copies of the original. 2 are pretty scarred up but 2 are very listenable. Although I have the MOFI all I listen to are one of my originals. This is going to kill new vinyl sales. The only path is to find originals!
There are a TON of reviews of Digitally sourced music against OG Vinyl pressings and the OG is usually the better. MOFI has made some great records...the biggest issue is THE Lie. Their Literature and their UA-cam channel state All Analog...it is a lie no matter how it is spun and using a DSD step should have been stated right on their product. They have acknowledged this in their 'online apology'. I would buy a Steven Wilson before MOFI. I like my Steven Wilson Aqualung. Good Video man
My friend, you said the point of the video was to ‘refute the point no one can tell the difference.’ Then spent the time telling us you feel disrespected by those calling you out because YOU couldn’t tell the difference btwn digital and analog cut vinyl. Then added in why folks shouldn’t be called out for this inability. I’m just noting the video seems to be kind of all over the place. Maybe just address one subject per video?
Given the chance to compare - given an analog copy and a digital copy, I along with most audiophiles will and can tell a difference. So, how can you fault anyone if they have not A-heard the master to compare, or B- They have no remastered analog copy to compare to? When there have been two copies - one analog and one digital the reviewers have used language like - “mechanical” or “analytical” to describe the MOFI and used, “sounds like vinyl” or “sounds more musical” to describe the analog copy. Go watch 45 RPM describe the differences in BSOT on his UA-cam channel. Oh, the best part is when 45 RPM indicates that the difference was not subtle and heard right away. You also should watch the video with Bernie Grundman, Ryan Smith and Chad Kassem. The “ perfect” myth of digital needs to be dispelled! The myth surrounding DSD needs to be blown apart. I have and use a Merging Technologies DAC. Since many before you have no clue why I mention this I will spell it out for you - MOFI uses a Merging Technology DAC to do their DSD conversions. So, I am very familiar with the so called “perfect” DSD transfers. MOFI has lied again- it is not perfect and anyone can tell the difference in listening to the master tape verses their DSD copy!
@@hifilive650 - not disputing your assertions in the video... I was only saying it kinda started out w/ one subject and became something else by the end. I did understand where you were coming from and going with it, you'd have been able to flesh out each subject by covering 3 separate topics in 3 different videos versus squishing them together in one. Either way, thanks for taking the time to create it, share your thoughts, and most of all bothering to reply to my comment. A true gentleman, indeed. best of luck with the channel (and the MOFI changes.)
Crazy, I could swear there was a placebo for every drug study. Foolish me, I forgot that all those double blind studies were conclusive with the effectiveness of their drug. I appreciate you commenting but perhaps you should think it through before exercising too much righteous indignation.
@@hifilive650 what You wrote Is MEANINGLESS....,,,what's the Point to what You wrote,?? THAT the generic Is as effective as the original.....?? So what ?? A digital recording Is as effective in communicat8ng the SOUND as a analog,, SO what...., THE QUALITIES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE DIFFERENT.....IF WE STICK TO THE DRUG MODEL, effectiveness can STILL HOLD BUT difference can exist IN the pleasure a drug delivers, IN the speed it WORkd , IN THE presence of side effects , IN MANY THINGS,, PLUS, THEY ARE SUPER BIASED IN TESTS TO CONFIRM A GENERIC DRUG,,, IN FACT ITS USUALLY THE PHARMA COMPAÑY PAYING FOR IT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY VIA POLÍTICAL GRAFT..., TONS OF PEOPLE WOULD RATHER HAVE THE ORIGINAL DUDE AND ITS DEFINITELY CONSIDERED BETTER AND WHAT PEOPLE WILL PAY FOR IN MANY CASES OR CHOOSE WHEN GIVEN THE CHOICE.
Here's the sad truth: NOTHNG will happen to MoFi. They've already issued a half-assed "apology" but only because they were caught, and only after there have been video after video of music reviewers who are upset about this FRAUD. Will MoFi issue a full refund for every record returned (postage on their end), or will they issue each verified purchaser a discount voucher for every item they've bought for future purchases? No matter what happens, a couple of things for sure (1) Their reputation is shot (2) They won't issue any type of compensation that is of much value to anyone, especially those who are so pissed they've vowed never to buy from them again and (3) Their infamous "1 Step" crap is down the toilet. When you look at it, had they just stuck to issuing albums as they've always done, perhaps nothing would have been discovered. But they got too greedy and when they started to charge $125 + for a "1 Step", then added "Thriller" to the list fo releases, a "limited edition" of 40,000 copies, it raised red flags for even the casual listener. Are they going to cut 40 lacquers and play that master tape 40 times? Will Sony allow this? And that's what ultimately unraveled the fraud. Class action lawsuit? Unless MoFi issues more than that half baked BS robo-statement, and very soon, I'd say that their other problems will pale in comparison to the flood of lawsuits they'll be receiving.
I wonder how original purchases of the MFSL release of The Beatles "Magical Mystery Tour" must have felt when they dropped the needle on the record and heard what they truly believed to be music sourced from the master tapes when in reality they were at least 3rd generation dubs from Capitol along with fake stereo mixes? Until now, it was MFSL's (MoFi now) biggest fiasco and scandal. But we can't really blame them as they believed they received a master tape from EMI.
It took me 2 years to find a good, playable copy of Magical Mystery. I ultimately ended up going with an '83 German analog LP - - absolutely astonishing sound. It's like The Beatles are in the room. 100% master quality sound.
The only reason to have TT is to hear albums that are rare and not available in other formats. Do you still watch a B&W TV with a round picture tube and rabbit ears? When the CD was first introduced an album cost $6 and a CD was $15. Now an album is $20 or more, and a CD is still $15 or less! And CDs don't degrade the more they are played. I have some that are over 30 years old and are as perfect as the day I bought them. Of the over 600 CDs I own, I've only had one ever that skipped, and all I had to do was clean it with a little Windex. The argument here is not that vinyl is better. If you want to believe it is, with no proof, that's ok, if it makes you happy. The problem is that MoFi lied to their customers, while charging insane prices at the same time.
You haven’t heard any of the new remastered records have you? Listening to a Kevin Gray mastered Blue Note reissue will help. Music matters, Tone Poets or even a Blue Note classic series will blow your mind. I have some very high end DAC’s but they do not touch what is coming through on vinyl. My DAC’s - Merging Technologies, AYON, Theta and Levinson…. I have a “naked” Kimber Kable hooked up from the Merging Technologies DAC with Boulder amplification. I doubt that my digital chain is a problem when accessing the difference from newly remastered works from Blue Note of Acoustic Sounds.
Master tapes are only used to make a second tape from which the stampers are made. You keep using the term "Master Tape", and frankly it became confusing. Look, no one could tell the difference for years. They have been making high quality sounding vinyl records for years. Stop crying, listen to some good vinyl, and just get over it.
The myth is that so many were actually listening to their MOFI verses buying for just the collector value. I have never listened to much MOFI and I’ve had 50+ of them for over 30 years. Perhaps that is what should be polled - who actually listened regularly to their MOFI? I’m betting this will split along the age of the listener. When I was 20-30 years younger I could handle digital. Now it turns out in frustration for me after just an hour of listening. Regards.
There are plenty of pretentious flippers but really - pretentious audiophiles? The audiophiles I know are still like a little kid in a candy store when listening to music...
@@hifilive650 Yes plenty of pretentious audiophiles. You must have seen that bald headed muscle man who has changed his equipment as regular as his underpants in the last 8 years
@@nasdkhan254 Yes, I have seen him and yes, he is like a little kid in a candy store when he finds some good music and listens to it. The music moves him enough to make video's for others and his take it or leave it attitude can mean many things. He believes, just like you and I do, that his opinion carry's truth. Anyway, I find him refreshing and amusing for not backing down and apologizing for liking the finer things in life. He may not be your cup of tea but no one makes you watch him and what he produces is free. I totally understand why you made the comment that you have and I don't think that your opinion is wrong but I do think we all could broaden our horizons a bit to understand how much different someone elses life may be from our own. Thanks for your comments. Regards
Remember to also laugh at those who believe they can taste the difference between expensive food and cheap junk food. Or those with sophisticated eyes who believe they can see the difference between the cheapest TV and the most expensive one. Since everyone with a hobby is a snob in your world don't be surprised if you end up being alone without any friends in the end
Can you elucidate further? Exactly who are all the snobs you are commenting about? I have yet to come across the "prententious snobs" but perhaps there are some. Finding someone who claims that they have "sophisticated ears" is even more rare. Again, care to enlighten the rest of us who you are talking about?
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The funny thing about all of this is that MoFi isnt they only one . They were the first to get caught.
I am sure other record issue companies are doing the same
This is what I posted on dagogo site
Sandro Ioia
August 16, 2022 at 8:15 pm
Ignorance is bliss they say. After learning of the news of Mofi’s use of DSD, it hardly mattered to me sound wise as many Lp re-issues are sourced from digital files. However I have bought LP’s that were recorded from the original master analogue tapes and those that were mastered to digital. The fact remains that I was given the choice to decide to buy an LP with the knowledge that it was an original analogue or digital source. Mofi has deceived there niche market and the audiophile community.
I don't know too much about audiophile issues but your shirt is jamming
great Dog...
This was an interesting and original take on the situation and I thank you for making it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing reaction. Well done. YT needs more from this kind of video!
I agree........
I think I was WAY more swindled by "Simply Vinyl" audiophile records than by any other audiophile record company ever could. I bought two Simply Vinyl $30 each and found that it was no more than an ordinary pressing done in 180 grams. Since then I've learned that if I see "180 Gram", it has to be from a company that I know to make real audiophile pressings and not just a bunch of jerks that thought they could pass off a regular pressing as "audiophile" just because it was 180 gram.
So, you also were caught by the hype sticker stating the blah blah blah master tape 180gram audiophile addition…. Seems, we have all been ripped off.
Well spoken and passionately delivered. I'm with you point for point on this. 👍 #subbed
To play devil's advocate, MoFi records still have grooves and played on turntables with cartridges. Hence it still analogue mediums and systems.
Correct. That may account for the reason they go to the trouble of plating and mastering a new vinyl record when makiing an SACD or putting out a digital file would be so much easier. Perhaps digital is best when played on vinyl...
Exactly!!
This video appears to me as one of the most sincere of all the comments I’ve read. IT leverage the issue at the proper level.
I can Feel your pain as a collector .
This was one of the most sincere overviews of this story I’ve seen. Very nice ✌🏻 but I think it’s silly when people don’t open their records. It’s the music imho.
You are correct of course. I have the problem that most of us have - not enough time to listen and way too much to listen to. I currently have over 8,000 lp's. Many are duplicates but I do try to listen to all of them. I bought all of the Mobile Fidleity CD's. I was taken with digital in the 90's and opened the cd's and listened.
Really good point - how many have heard the various master tapes in question these days! "The way the original artists/producers/engineers etc have quality-checked "everything" - before saying OK to a good enough test pressing (& ready for the mass-marked)
Great Channel! Here's my take on MOFI: you only want the "thin" pressings (standard thickness, early ones) , The EARLY UHQR's are great but NOT the later, post CD era issues. All the later pressings including the later UHQR's are clearly not the sound quality of the early pressings. (early meaning before CD's and Later meaning when they started up making records again after CD's became commonly used)
Thank you for your comment.
I wish i had the money to at least start listening to vinyl.
Find a good used TT. They have many for under a $100 in my area. If you can afford a Fluance or other with built in pre-amp you will be ready to go. Money problems blow big time. However, jump on in the water is excellent.
BTW - Does MoFi cut their lacquers at half speed like they used to? I don't recall they mentioning it they way they used to.
Good question. Because MOFI releases seem tilted up in the treble it is very possible that they are using half speed masters.
These disheartening MoFi revelations remind me of the old Piltdown Man scandal in the 1950's when it turned out that the worlds oldest human fossil supposedly discovered in the early 1910's (in jolly ol England) turned out to be a big fraud.
We digital folks got hosed on the brickwalled cds!
I'm 60, so I have many original MFSL pressings from the early days.When Music Direct resurrected MFSL (and renamed them MoFi), I always felt they were being disingenuous about their products.Just another symptom of being in the now.These days suck. If you launch a class action, let me know.I have 10 OneSteps unopened.
Having unopened OneSteps seems to be the norm. The farce of the article is that they suppose that most people regularly pull out a MOFI title and listen to it. It was not uncommon for people to spin a record one time and then store it away. They usually had a tape player going to make a copy. Many video's here on youtube compare MOFI titles with other releases. I fail to find a clear concensus that the MOFI releases were better than the others. Although some may have claimed that it was not a universally accepted truth - that the MOFI releases were superior to others...
The real dummy's are the people who mow think their CD's are as good as analog now.great video.
Ignorance is bliss as they say…
Dang you are 100%right. What is your opinion on Michael Fremer
Good video! Spot on analysis
Glad you think so!
Plus their main thing when they started was more directed at 1/2 speed mastering. And when Mo-Fi started they never claimed the limited copies where because they didnt want to play they tape again. In fact when they started the pressings where done from a stamper from a mother. Wilson didn't say it was the closest to the original master tape, he remixed and made a new master. Like I said in previous post Mo-Fi should have been more transparent but at that level of digital and that early in the record making steps you can't hear the difference at the record. Fact if you did an A-B of the tape and that level of digital nobody can tell. I understand the anger at Mo-Fi not dispelling the assumptions made by everyone, but law suit? Many,many things are unethical but not illegal. Really, it's still a superior record, tho I wouldn't pay that anyway. Santana play's Black Magic Woman just as good on my original copy as on my slightly better pressing and just as good as on the Mo-Fi. I do prefer records, there is a difference between them and CD's but I'm more obsessed with hearing music I like than the absolute best copy. If your noticing differences in the medium, your not fully engaged in the music.
You should go watch the video done last Saturday with Bernie Grundman, Ryan Smith, Chad Kassem and Michael Ludwig. I think the experts disagree with you strongly. They actually have master tapes and have extensive experience with both digital and analogue. The myth that has been spread - that digital is perfect and people cannot percieve a difference between analogue and digital is a bunch of -- you know what!
@@hifilive650 ya know what got me thinking was years ago listening to a CD then the record and the CD just seemed to be missing something, I've always been analog.But after recording lots of my records on CD to use in the car I started listening to them against the record on my home system, and was kinda surprised. I did not want to admit it but.... and that was just a home recorded CD. Granted it's a pretty good CD recorder but really got me re-evaluating things and studying more about placebo effect. One thing I've discovered is "audiophiles" just look the other way when faced with it. And pros have biases too and are not immune to it. And I did watch his interview. He never said he compared master tape to current DSD technology. I heard a lot of personal bias in his comments so I take it all with a grain of salt.
@@hifilive650 Another interesting thing is how many "audiophiles" said the one steps were the best sounding records they had heard, even argued that mo fi using a DSD master was totally false. Wasn't till after it was known that people came out and said "oh I knew something didn't sound right" BS. Something to think about, you can make a record of digital and it takes on record characteristics, make a digital of a record and it sounds like the record. It's the record we like the sound of. Where it was sourced is of much lesser importance. I'm not trying to promote digital, allway's been pretty anti digital. But just trying to see it more in the light of reality. And I never believed digital was "perfect". Something that caught my ear and didn't make sense was Bernie saying something about digital mainly being used for the audiophiles?
@@bradt.3555 They say ignorance is bliss. You will have to decide who is in bliss and who isn't. Go grab an equalizer and put a smile on it - it may put a smile on your face also. However, given time most of us have no use for the disco smile anymore - welll, except it appears MOFI is still using that to sell its wares. If you love the MOFI records then buy them - I would not have and will not be p[aying $125 for anything they produce. Good Day.
@@hifilive650 Good call on ignorance is bliss. No I don't even have bass n treble on my pre amp. Didn't say I love MoFi wouldn't pay 100 bucks for any record, analog or digital mastered. Now the one step process for making a better record makes sense, but just that will drive up the price, whether they run a tape or play a DSD file. Don't think MoFi tho has been accused of using a smile eq, but who knows. Audiophiles seem to be the ones to deny science and rely on highly fallible human perception. They once thought the eye witness was best, till science came along and also found 10 people would see something 10 different ways. But ya no, ignorance is bliss. I used to be analog only but thru learning removed some ignorance. I still like records but thats where the record sound comes from. I think MoFi should have been more up front but ignorant people made a lot of assumptions.
No label will let their master tapes out of their possession anymore. Most audiophile labels use digital transfers.
Acoustic Sounds, Speakers Corner and others don't seem to share your concern. There are still many who manage to use the master tapes and keep their chain analogue. Kevin Gray still seems to find plenty of master tapes to master from.
Master tapes usually are in good condition according to Kevin Gray, they are not that frail. Plenty of recordings are done from Master tapes and/from metal works like Analogue Productions got from Classic Records.
Good analysis. I concur. I never bought into the new record hysteria. This was the reason. IN MOST CASES, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. Most new records have no information as to the source used, but are still quite expensive. I will only pick something up if it is cheap. The only way to win at this game is not to play it. I suspect MOFI is not the only one engaged in this deception. They were just the first to get caught. As for scorning people who "can not tell the difference" I think the people saying this are being foolish, missing the point. This whole industry is tainted due to lack of transparency. That is the point. Caveat emptor
Hindsight is 20/20. Funny how most of the records I lsten to are either OG titles or they have a sticker stating plainly that there has been a full analogue chain. The others - I have fallen into collecting which MOFI is making me regret.
Thanks for a great video. I only have one silver mofi record but I'm not gonna buy from them again. Don't trust them.
The fact is that you've invested so much time and emotion into this illusion, that 100% analog in distinguishable from digital, that it makes it impossible for you to see the criticisms of analog purists. In your video you compare digital to "synthetic" drugs and "faux" leather. There is nothing fake or synthetic about digital. It is simply the most logical and best way to store/preserve media, end of discussion. You've been brainwashed by years of thinking digital is a low resolution MP3 file. Of course they made a digital master from the tape! Of course! No company who owns these tapes is going to allow some company to run that original master over and over and over again to please some microscopic group of analog purists. They use a digital step because it is the only pragmatic way of doing what they do, and gives them the opportunity to produce that AMAZING sound. The sound you and other analog purists LOVED. The sound analog purists used to demonstrate how great analog can sound.
Mobile Fidelity proved you can't distinguish the sound of a record cut from a great digital master and a record cut straight from the tape. You cant. You cant.
Stop thinking you need an excuse to enjoy vinyl.
You should probably see my new video. It kinda destroys the myth that has been created about master tapes. Enjoy.
Oh, by the way, I think you should give us the name of the MOFI titles you believe are so awesome and which you listen to all the time. I only know of 2 that I actually listened to more than once- Marc Cohn and Brother’s In Arm’s. What are the titles you are so enamored with?
Actually, they could make a copy of the master tape, to tape, and use that, keeping it in the analogue domain.
They feel that DSD 256 (specifically, so PDM not PCM) is able to capture the sound accurately (although they started with DSD 64). Then they perform all EQ in the analogue domain, so they are using it in a very specific way and are not converting it to PCM (DXD) and processing it digitally.
So, this is a far cry from other digitally sourced music where it uses PCM and mastering is performed in the digital domain (Steven Wilson). So, there are different forms of digital, digital adds extra steps (A2D and D2A) and the mastering engineers (Bernie Grundman in particular) have highlighted how problematic digital still is; maybe DSD 256 is a breakthrough in this regard? I don't know.
MFSL have different labels (Original Master Recording vs Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab), there is the Silver Label series etc. When people buy the Original Master Recording they expect that it is directly from the master tape to the lathe with a bit of analogue EQ. Had Mofi come clean about using DSD at the start, I don't think people would have had as big an issue. For some, they would just get the DSD, which Mofi also make, and others would still buy the records.
People are angry because they were misled and no-one likes that.
Sorry, there was a bit of rambling in there...
Mo-Fi used the original master tapes to create a digital copy. so the end result was sourced from original master tape, no mis-representation there. The entire process mixing, eq etc., of cutting the lacquer was done in the analog domain. Did they claim they were actually running the master tape as the were cutting the lacquer? not that I can find. Was it just assumed by the so called audiophiles? What does ass u me spell? Did Mo-Fi actually say there was no digital step anywhere, not that I've found. The limited number of pressings is because of using the father plate instead of a stamper made from a mother, (one step records). Not because they didn't want to run the tape again. Seems people made a lot of assumptions. Did Mo-Fi do anything to dispell these assumptions, no, but are they legally required to if they never actually made the claims and people just assumed? Not a very up front way of doing things but illegal, doesn't appear so. Fact is by the time you get to the record, nobody on planet earth could tell if they were running the tape or a digital copy.
see my above reply - you are dealing in fiction instead of facts.
I heard Santana was digital
Which Santana?
@@hifilive650 i heard santana abraxas is digital. I have heard the original scratchy version that blows all the others away. Only the original version. I would not have any version but the original scratchy one.
I have 4 copies of the original. 2 are pretty scarred up but 2 are very listenable. Although I have the MOFI all I listen to are one of my originals. This is going to kill new vinyl sales. The only path is to find originals!
There are a TON of reviews of Digitally sourced music against OG Vinyl pressings and the OG is usually the better. MOFI has made some great records...the biggest issue is THE Lie. Their Literature and their UA-cam channel state All Analog...it is a lie no matter how it is spun and using a DSD step should have been stated right on their product. They have acknowledged this in their 'online apology'. I would buy a Steven Wilson before MOFI. I like my Steven Wilson Aqualung. Good Video man
My friend, you said the point of the video was to ‘refute the point no one can tell the difference.’
Then spent the time telling us you feel disrespected by those calling you out because YOU couldn’t tell the difference btwn digital and analog cut vinyl.
Then added in why folks shouldn’t be called out for this inability.
I’m just noting the video seems to be kind of all over the place. Maybe just address one subject per video?
Given the chance to compare - given an analog copy and a digital copy, I along with most audiophiles will and can tell a difference. So, how can you fault anyone if they have not A-heard the master to compare, or B- They have no remastered analog copy to compare to? When there have been two copies - one analog and one digital the reviewers have used language like - “mechanical” or “analytical” to describe the MOFI and used, “sounds like vinyl” or “sounds more musical” to describe the analog copy. Go watch 45 RPM describe the differences in BSOT on his UA-cam channel. Oh, the best part is when 45 RPM indicates that the difference was not subtle and heard right away.
You also should watch the video with Bernie Grundman, Ryan Smith and Chad Kassem. The “ perfect” myth of digital needs to be dispelled! The myth surrounding DSD needs to be blown apart. I have and use a Merging Technologies DAC. Since many before you have no clue why I mention this I will spell it out for you - MOFI uses a Merging Technology DAC to do their DSD conversions. So, I am very familiar with the so called “perfect” DSD transfers. MOFI has lied again- it is not perfect and anyone can tell the difference in listening to the master tape verses their DSD copy!
@@hifilive650 - not disputing your assertions in the video... I was only saying it kinda started out w/ one subject and became something else by the end.
I did understand where you were coming from and going with it, you'd have been able to flesh out each subject by covering 3 separate topics in 3 different videos versus squishing them together in one.
Either way, thanks for taking the time to create it, share your thoughts, and most of all bothering to reply to my comment. A true gentleman, indeed.
best of luck with the channel (and the MOFI changes.)
People who Buy phamasutical drugs don't set themselves up as aficionodos fool and THEY can for sure Tell The difference
Crazy, I could swear there was a placebo for every drug study. Foolish me, I forgot that all those double blind studies were conclusive with the effectiveness of their drug. I appreciate you commenting but perhaps you should think it through before exercising too much righteous indignation.
@@hifilive650 what You wrote Is MEANINGLESS....,,,what's the Point to what You wrote,?? THAT the generic Is as effective as the original.....?? So what ?? A digital recording Is as effective in communicat8ng the SOUND as a analog,, SO what...., THE QUALITIES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE DIFFERENT.....IF WE STICK TO THE DRUG MODEL, effectiveness can STILL HOLD BUT difference can exist IN the pleasure a drug delivers, IN the speed it WORkd , IN THE presence of side effects , IN MANY THINGS,, PLUS, THEY ARE SUPER BIASED IN TESTS TO CONFIRM A GENERIC DRUG,,, IN FACT ITS USUALLY THE PHARMA COMPAÑY PAYING FOR IT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY VIA POLÍTICAL GRAFT..., TONS OF PEOPLE WOULD RATHER HAVE THE ORIGINAL DUDE AND ITS DEFINITELY CONSIDERED BETTER AND WHAT PEOPLE WILL PAY FOR IN MANY CASES OR CHOOSE WHEN GIVEN THE CHOICE.
I guess you made my point without knowing it…
Here's the sad truth: NOTHNG will happen to MoFi. They've already issued a half-assed "apology" but only because they were caught, and only after there have been video after video of music reviewers who are upset about this FRAUD. Will MoFi issue a full refund for every record returned (postage on their end), or will they issue each verified purchaser a discount voucher for every item they've bought for future purchases? No matter what happens, a couple of things for sure (1) Their reputation is shot (2) They won't issue any type of compensation that is of much value to anyone, especially those who are so pissed they've vowed never to buy from them again and (3) Their infamous "1 Step" crap is down the toilet. When you look at it, had they just stuck to issuing albums as they've always done, perhaps nothing would have been discovered. But they got too greedy and when they started to charge $125 + for a "1 Step", then added "Thriller" to the list fo releases, a "limited edition" of 40,000 copies, it raised red flags for even the casual listener. Are they going to cut 40 lacquers and play that master tape 40 times? Will Sony allow this? And that's what ultimately unraveled the fraud. Class action lawsuit? Unless MoFi issues more than that half baked BS robo-statement, and very soon, I'd say that their other problems will pale in comparison to the flood of lawsuits they'll be receiving.
There has already been at least one law suit filed. How many more will come?
If MoFi is the very best then What’s the problem really?
Apparently MOFI is not the best but they charge like they are...
I wonder how original purchases of the MFSL release of The Beatles "Magical Mystery Tour" must have felt when they dropped the needle on the record and heard what they truly believed to be music sourced from the master tapes when in reality they were at least 3rd generation dubs from Capitol along with fake stereo mixes? Until now, it was MFSL's (MoFi now) biggest fiasco and scandal. But we can't really blame them as they believed they received a master tape from EMI.
It took me 2 years to find a good, playable copy of Magical Mystery. I ultimately ended up going with an '83 German analog LP - - absolutely astonishing sound. It's like The Beatles are in the room. 100% master quality sound.
The only reason to have TT is to hear albums that are rare and not available in other formats. Do you still watch a B&W TV with a round picture tube and rabbit ears? When the CD was first introduced an album cost $6 and a CD was $15. Now an album is $20 or more, and a CD is still $15 or less! And CDs don't degrade the more they are played. I have some that are over 30 years old and are as perfect as the day I bought them. Of the over 600 CDs I own, I've only had one ever that skipped, and all I had to do was clean it with a little Windex.
The argument here is not that vinyl is better. If you want to believe it is, with no proof, that's ok, if it makes you happy. The problem is that MoFi lied to their customers, while charging insane prices at the same time.
You haven’t heard any of the new remastered records have you? Listening to a Kevin Gray mastered Blue Note reissue will help. Music matters, Tone Poets or even a Blue Note classic series will blow your mind. I have some very high end DAC’s but they do not touch what is coming through on vinyl. My DAC’s - Merging Technologies, AYON, Theta and Levinson…. I have a “naked” Kimber Kable hooked up from the Merging Technologies DAC with Boulder amplification. I doubt that my digital chain is a problem when accessing the difference from newly remastered works from Blue Note of Acoustic Sounds.
Nice video
Master tapes are only used to make a second tape from which the stampers are made. You keep using the term "Master Tape", and frankly it became confusing. Look, no one could tell the difference for years. They have been making high quality sounding vinyl records for years. Stop crying, listen to some good vinyl, and just get over it.
The myth is that so many were actually listening to their MOFI verses buying for just the collector value. I have never listened to much MOFI and I’ve had 50+ of them for over 30 years. Perhaps that is what should be polled - who actually listened regularly to their MOFI? I’m betting this will split along the age of the listener. When I was 20-30 years younger I could handle digital. Now it turns out in frustration for me after just an hour of listening. Regards.
Couldn't care less about mofi . I m blame the pretentious audiophiles . You want analogue buy records pre 1979 second hand
There are plenty of pretentious flippers but really - pretentious audiophiles? The audiophiles I know are still like a little kid in a candy store when listening to music...
@@hifilive650 Yes plenty of pretentious audiophiles. You must have seen that bald headed muscle man who has changed his equipment as regular as his underpants in the last 8 years
@@nasdkhan254 Yes, I have seen him and yes, he is like a little kid in a candy store when he finds some good music and listens to it. The music moves him enough to make video's for others and his take it or leave it attitude can mean many things. He believes, just like you and I do, that his opinion carry's truth.
Anyway, I find him refreshing and amusing for not backing down and apologizing for liking the finer things in life. He may not be your cup of tea but no one makes you watch him and what he produces is free. I totally understand why you made the comment that you have and I don't think that your opinion is wrong but I do think we all could broaden our horizons a bit to understand how much different someone elses life may be from our own.
Thanks for your comments. Regards
It's fun to laugh at pretentious snobs who think they have sophisticated ears.
Remember to also laugh at those who believe they can taste the difference between expensive food and cheap junk food. Or those with sophisticated eyes who believe they can see the difference between the cheapest TV and the most expensive one. Since everyone with a hobby is a snob in your world don't be surprised if you end up being alone without any friends in the end
No … they can just hear! No pretense necessary.
Can you elucidate further? Exactly who are all the snobs you are commenting about? I have yet to come across the "prententious snobs" but perhaps there are some. Finding someone who claims that they have "sophisticated ears" is even more rare. Again, care to enlighten the rest of us who you are talking about?
Strangely you need to learn to listen a skill that many have lost, but is one which can be relearnt with effort and time
Didn’t even listen to what the man said, did you?