RENTAL PROPERTY TOUR | BUYING MY FIRST INVESTMENT PROPERTY
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- My name is Christine, also known as Frugal Fit Mom on UA-cam. This channel is going to focus more on personal finance and doing UA-cam as a job. Let me know what questions you have about those topics and I am planning on posting them here!
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I have 3 Airbnbs.
Couple tips
1. Make sure you check city and county rules about Airbnbs! Not all places allow it and some might charge you an extra fee/tax and require you to get a permit.
2. Bigger places that sleep more people doesn't necessarily exponentially increase the amount you can charge. Think about what MOST people want when looking for Airbnb. The right size will open you up to a larger pool of renters.
3. Whatever amount of work/time you think a house will take, it will actually take at least TWICE that. Ask me how I know 😂
One more thing to add about large vacation rental properties, they tend to attract major partiers so you need to consider all the negative consequences associated with that decision. It's a big risk to take.
What’s the draw? Is it near a beach, water or skiing? A pool is too much liability when no ones there. Sleeps 12. Ok but to do what. And you don’t want two rentals too close ( house garage) because people want privacy. Careful of anything looking like a flip or flip in progress. Hides bad work. You want something that hasn’t been up for sale in about ten years to avoid the flip. Prefab on a lot would be great!
My two cents. That’s all.
Keep looking 🙃
She lives near Yellowstone and there is a university, so Tourism and family's dropping kids off would be the biggest draw
Close to Tetons, Jackson, and Yellowstone.
Getting an ozone machine and running it in the space for a day or two will also help with getting smells out.
Crud cutter (a cleaner from home Depot/Lowe's) and Killz makes a primer that will keep any more nicotine from seeping back through. Had to do this in our house that we bought as a foreclosure and the previous owners smoked in it for 20 years
For the second house, do you need a TV in every room? I would just use the upstairs as a bonus room and have one TV there and none in the other rooms. If it is in a vacation area then people won't watch that much TV anyway and the noise, etc could just be in the bonus room.
My husband and I built our house 4 years ago with the intent of finishing an apartment above the detached garage. We live in town and near a college. We have been renting it successfully for three years now. I would say most of our renters are parents coming to visit their kids at the college. We kind of knew that would be what we would cater to. Close to walking downtown shops and restaurants. We have really enjoyed doing it. The space is around 400 square feet so it’s not huge but we made sure to put in really nice details that would appeal to people. Good luck and have fun with it!
I would personally go with the White House. I think more beds the better. The living room I would make 2 separate spaces. Walking in the front door to the left I would put the tv in a corner cabinet with a couch. To the right I would have a small table for game playing and fill the built ins with board games. On my family vacations as a child we would always play board games that were there
I was thinking if they flip the door direction in the living room near the build in it would make the door opening not impact the proposed tv area
I stayed at a place in Seattle that rented each bedroom separately and had shared bathroom, television / common area and kitchen. One code to get in main house and codes on each bedroom. Worked great. Owner said that she could and did sometimes rent out the whole thing, but when I was there, she was renting out separately. You do not need televisions in each room,for real.
I own an Airbnb and went rent it out by the room with shared common spaces. It works out very well!
I would be very careful with adding another listing on the same site as your other listing. If a family or group of 14 friends was staying in the house and had people in the backyard.. yikes. People want privacy and even more than that space. I would want full access to the backyard and not to have random people in the unit on the same property. Some owners split houses weird to maximize listing and that has to be very clear on the Airbnb listing or people will rate you low and that affects other people seeing your listing.
I know you said you are open to tricks and tips but I have questions lol … I don’t know what you know or have thought of so far or have learned from others.
Market place and thrift store for the furniture.. can get major good deals.. okay furniture new in my house is the mattresses! 😉
When we moved overseas we evaluated long-term rental on our home versus air bnb. The house is in a prime area in a beautiful touristy town that is also a convention centre. When we looked at occupancy rates (low and high balling it) and the turnaround costs of cleaning, maintenance and furnishings the math was crystal clear.Long-term rental was twice the yield even after 3 years old modelling the numbers. After that the romance of airbnb rapidly dwindled we long-term let the property now and have made a very solid profit since. People have commented on what to do around and this is really important to consider who is your market,what will they do.Packing so many people in for only one living space would risk more damage,maintence, more cleaning more turnaround time (or more people to employ). If you did go for the white house (and it's lovely) I would very seriously consider having another living space upstairs. It's quite a daunting job
One bathroom is a no go for me.
Cigarette smoke gets in everything; carpet, wood, popcorn ceilings, cabinets, etc. I would pass on the first house for sure.
1 bathroom in a 1900 sqft is not enough in ANY house. Then you also have HOA's, that is why I would stay away from condos. I like the white house.
You can still rent out the garage to a separate tenant for storage, or possibly 2 units…divide with a wall down the middle.
Re: mounting a TV on the wall - Maybe an armoire? You could put a TV in the top section, with drawers on the bottom. Double duty.
If anyone can furnish it and make it cute on a budget, it is you!!! I have total faith in you, and I love this channel!! Head over to the dollar store for everything you need for this darling house!
2nd house definitely! And who says you need a tv in the living room. Maybe a media room. That garage space could be 2 small efficiencies that you could use if you want to eventually hire someone to oversee the house for you, like cleaning between renters, inspections, issues, etc. As far as furnishing .. last day estate sales are a great way to get furniture! Can't wait for updates!
The tiny room in the 2nd house would be a great board game storage/library room or an office space. You don't need a tv in every bedroom, most b&bs i've stayed in have not had that and i never use them in the ones that do. Maybe just the living room and master
My friends with ABB’S have a cleaning service go in between clients . Clean, change bedding and do a walk around. They have a lot of issues with the neighbours when they have part people renting.
Obsessed with the white house! The kitchen is flippen adorable 😍 also you can always put the tv in front of the window! Just some good blinds and curtains is all you would need!
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I would definitely remodel the basement for an air bnb that way your morgue gets paid off faster and you can always rent it out for a bigger family or a few families at once that like to travel together and stay together instead of a hotel it's cheaper and you probably won't have a lot of competition on the air bnb because most houses are up to 8 people. I love the property by the way
Sleeps 14? How many bathrooms?
Wow that is super interesting! Love the bigger house as well. In my area, they only allow around 50 AirBnB permits in our whole town, and its a lottery for any that open up on the wait list. Your neighbors that live next to there will probably hate you. Our neighbor did that to us, and every two weeks we had noisy people with tons of kids screaming at all hours of the night and day because they were on ‘vacation’ yet I had to wake up at 5:30am the next day. It was awful. We called the cops more than once. Thankfully, they eventually turned it into a normal rental house and the neighbors live and work here and have at least some consideration for other people’s lives.
In the second house...why do you want to have a TV in every room? 😅😅
It's true. People on vacation are out doing things. I have one tv in each Airbnb. They rarely have time to watch it.
We have rented air bnb in the past and love having a game room with a pool table, a card/poker type table, and other games, some sleeper couches and a big screen tv. I think that big room upstairs would be perfect for that. I think the downstairs bedroom would be a good master, there’s a bathroom right there and it’s separate from the rest of the sleeping quarters. I love the idea of converting the garage into another rental, that’s really smart and in the end, would definitely generate more income. I would however, if possible, make it private and separate from the other house.
I think there is ways to furnish it frugally depending on if you want it all knew or not. I think for a rental, which most likely will have kids, I wouldn’t want to buy expensive nee furniture. Second hand couches and dining table, etc, may be the way to go.
My car had an intense cigarette smell when I first bought it, you can remove a lot of the smell with an Ozone treatment!
I got the treatment and after a few weeks smell was totally gone.
I have a really big interest in property investments so please keep us up to date!
Personally I would go for the land, I felt that there were too many cons for the other 2 properties with layouts etc. And with land you can make the property your own. But as you guys mentioned, it didn't have the views you were after so maybe keep looking? Love the videos!
We love staying at Airbnb’s because we have a large family and like cooking in more then eating out even when we are on vacation. I always look for quality beds, sheets and towels. The most recent had all those but no master bath and kitchen was very cheaply set up. It worked and we had a fantastic time. Curious what is the tourist attraction in your area? I think it’d be fun to run an Airbnb but there’s no tourist attraction where we live. I’d go with the ready to go house. Building would be sooooo much work. We have built 2 houses and with shortages and priced right now that doesn’t seem a smart way to go at all.
I think she's mentioned she's close to yellow stone national park
First one, I would pass on. It was the layout of my grandma's vacation rentals. It would need to be gutted and redone which costs a lot of money. This would cost too much.
On the land, before you do anything make sure you can get septic or well.
The white house is better and you would not to have to spend a fortune on repairs.
A good idea maybe for getting basics for the airbnb, I took pictures at the timeshare we stayed at. The utensils in the drawers, lots and pans, etc. They had basics, but what you would need. Don't overbuy.
Remember you can always thrift or FB marketplace what you need to furnish most of the space! The big house has so many options for you - I would go with that one. Also, you can always board up a window or door in living room to give yourself more usable space. Keep these vids coming!
Love the Reno one- so manY possibly- 2 options long term. Love this one.
That first house needs a total gut and reconfigured. The second house is a little better but I find it very odd that they didn't extend the countertop and cabinet all the way to the wall and left an unuseful space especially if it's new. That makes me wonder what else they didn't do correctly that you may not see?
Have you considered making your investment property a traditional rental rather than an Airbnb? This seems like a better long-term option, with less risk, less upkeep/maintenance issues, and a lot less turnover. You might make a bit less money (though that’s hard to say), but you’d have year-round occupancy which provides a lot more financial security. Plus you wouldn’t have to furnish or decorate at all. Just another approach to consider!
I would have a $5000 furnishing budget and thrift it all. I've heard up to $20k depending on your clientele style. I love these options and the one that is 120 years old...run for the hills (from experience). In air b&b the less yard the better..they really just need a patio with a nice table and/or couch set up. I like your thoughts on both the land and that last ready to go home.
My only thought is the one where you said you could possibly due 14 people if you did sleeper sofa's is too many people. Maybe a really close family/friend group wouldn't mind. If I had to stay with that many people in that "smallish" space I'd lose it haha. On that note I don't think that house is small, I live in a small home. Just too small for 14 people. You could even do a crib/bunk bed situation in that one room for families travelling with little ones.
And what is the draw for 14 people?! It’s not like a skiing or beach area.
Fun to see the houses. I’m on a similar journey. Would love a video on how to protect your assets while running an Airbnb. Good luck in your house hunting!
You can totally furnish any place on a budget with thrift shops and Facebook marketplace. I think you just need to keep your eyes out of free or cheap things and set up an area in your basement to start keeping things. It is going to take awhile to find things but I know you can do it!
Was an investor for years and I personally would not do Air Bnb....
Christine might benefit from knowing why.
Us too.
The last house with the paneled bonus room is a really interesting. I'd make the paneled room a really nice master space. I'd set up one of the other large rooms upstairs as a second living room/hang out space, but I'd have sofa beds or the like so that it could also be used as a bedroom if there was a large group. The garage? What about renting it out to someone who wants a shop/garage on a full time basis? Is that something you've thought of? Disadvantage would be access and parking for them when a group was there.
to furnish the house- go to estate sales! you will be able to get furniture, curtains, kitchen items, etc all in one place and if you buy a lot and transport it yourself you should be able to get a huge discount. people go to those sales for jewelry and art but if you find a sale with relatively new stuff that would be ideal.
Rental property makes more sense than an Air BnB in my opinion. You’re not responsible for furnishing the entire property for rentals, people bring that. Saves money for sure. I was confused why you were concerned with furniture til I realized you planned Air BnB for this project. Just a thought! Maybe buying land and putting tiny homes or manufactured homes down would be nice and make your money back faster. In Kentucky, “trailer parks” are very common. Houses are back to back, yards are small, and people still rent and pay $600+ a month for small trailers! 🙂
First house(green trim,steep stairs) has a sump pump and the paint is probably “dry lock” because water has gotten in the basement.
1. I may be weird but I don’t feel that every room has to have a TV. 2. The white house is much better than the first. 3. As someone who enjoys staying in the middle of nowhere for the peace and quiet, having two rental buildings in such close proximity would be a deal breaker for me. Good luck with this new project!
What about mounting TVs from the ceiling? Maybe the owners didn't have TVs. Also, what about installing a Murphy bed in some of the awkward rooms? Regarding the smoke: many days of all windows open during the hottest days of the year, & like you said remove all carpet, then a deep sanitizing & deodorizing cleaning, then new paint all over the entire home.
1 bathroom. Steep stairs and crazy rooms oh let's not forget the removal and painting. What could be electrical and heating issues? The second one has crazy placement issues but I think that can be worked out. It also has the potential for a 2nd rental down the road. I like the 2nd one. The land would be a great option but with all the crazy stuff going on it would be out probably a year or more.
How exciting! I would pass on the first house.....😬 I have a realator friend getting a condo here in Chicago ready for air bnb, its been a lot of work. Thanks for taking us with you!
For the second house with the king bed room. Could I recommend two beds in that room either two double beds or two queen size beds. That way if there's two adults traveling together they don't have to share a bed if they don't want to.
Yes! So into real-estate love your idea! We have thought of same thing how awesome to own a home and rent it out where you would like to visit too! :) excited to see what you choose and how it goes! Lord willing we will pay our home off this year too and looking to do same thing!
We are a family of 9 so we ALWAYS use Airbnbs that can sleep a lot of people! And often large groups have reunions near Yellowstone and large foreign groups often come to see Yellowstone.
I have 3 Stars on our property. All 3 are for only 2 people each. More people equals more hassle and probability of parties and damage happening.
Also, remember that air bnbs don't need to be as set as your home, so tvs in every room may not be necessary. Also dressers when there are closets may also not be needed. A holiday home doesn't need to be equipped like your home. A lot of times people will eat out some of the time, so basic start up kit for the kitchen should work.
I feel like I've got tips and tricks, and also a lot of questions for you to know what to tell you. 😅 Location and prices are key!! 😁 But here goes: For us, making sure a place has something special and unique has worked well. Even more than just Yellowstone. Honestly in the last couple of years it has gone so well that possibly that mattered less. ( When we first started there were more Airbnbs.) I'm pretty sure you've got at LEAST as good an idea as me how to frugally furnish a place. We started low and went up. By that I mean Dollar Store then DI or Facebook Garage Sale sites then Wal-Mart then Amazon. 😄 Certain places go a little more lux than Amazon once they've proved themselves but I guess we're more on the frugal end! (One place has the word BUDGET in the title, soooo...) It takes a lot of $ to completely furnish- and lots of time and effort, too. We ended up needing a pickup truck because of all this! We also upgrade as possible/ necessary. Another thing that can work really well ( depending on location- those look pretty far out) is renting to college students in the off season. Fall and Winter semesters are a toss up as far as getting enough AIRBNB traffic. We let them know they have to be out for spring semester. And yeah, I love all this stuff! 😁❤
Also, for an Airbnb you have to figure out how you're going to clean it. Are you employing a business ( if ones available) are you going to do it yourself, are you going to hire somone ( your kids!?!) or someone else? Plus, I'm amazed at how fast towels have to be replaced! And even sheets! It adds up. The big expense comes at first, but every year you have to replace a lot- more than I realized! And not just sheets. Dishes break, things disappear, etc. And we give out juice and granola bars at a couple of our places, and that is a continuous expense to add in.
In the third rental option, if the shop is temperature controlled you could think about just renting spaces for people to store their toys during the winter (ie small boats, trailers, etc) Costs involved to get it ready could be pretty minimal. Just whatever to clean it out and maybe some security measures. bring in some extra $ instead of just locking it up and having wasted space.
We used VRBO for a vacation rental last year. Twelve people in one house in Savannah... Awesome! Definitely have a first floor bedroom for anyone who can't do stairs. Also plan for parking if multiple families meet up.
White house is more versatile. Cigarette smoke NEVER leaves. You'd have to do much more put in new carpet. It's inside the walls, you'd have to gut the insulation, if there's any and replace all the vent space. Believe me, my father in law smoked all his life and their house smelled horrible. I looked at at a house where new carpet was installed to cover up the cigarette smoke and it still smelled really bad. It was so bad the keypad of the security system was stained with nicotine.
I missed you and Dave doing videos together! This was fun just to see you both .
Yikes would definitely not go for the house with a cigarette smell! My parents’ first house (That they thankfully rented) had been in the house of a previous smoker. The property owner had flipped the house ripped out the carpet repainted , etc. and my parents said that it was disgusting because they didn’t know until they agreed on the lease already that when they would take a shower the steam would bleed out yellow from the walls in the bathroom
When looking for airbnb's to rent out we look for houses that have a game room or somewhere where the kids can go hang out.
If you’re in a college town I would so rent to college students and let them sublet in the summer. Way more stable and less maintenance. Students are craving affordable housing and they have low expectations for aesthetics. When I was in college there was duct tape painted over on the ceiling and no one cared haha
Plus you don’t necessarily have to furnish it!
Can’t wait to see what you decide! I personally would not go with the land unless you have solid relationships with a contractor that knows the area. Planning and zoning are questions, are there already water and septic? Do you know the required elevations? Soil conditions? Architect for the house plan? Things in CA are very strict when it comes to these things and they can turn into hard stops on development very quickly. With it being an investment property, especially Air BNB, building on bare land has a lot of variables with no solid expectation on ROR. I would go for an existing home, and I would say you can certainly furnish a house on a budget, as long as you want to invest your time in chasing the deals. In investment properties it’s easy to forget that your time is money too. Have fun-this will be a fun adventure for sure!
of the 3 the 2nd house was way better. I currently live in a home of a former chain smoker... walls were orange whole house stunk. Was great when I bought it because I had zero competition and offered under asking. What sucked was the 2 months of work I had to put into the house to make it habitable. All new flooring, all new paint including washing down the walls with special chemicals, and then using special primers and paints to lock the smoke smell into the drywall. My bathroom still leaks brown drops from the humidity and condensation even with a fan so I may have to take it down to the studs to really get rid of it. If you are looking for an Airbnb rental, the 2nd house is way better. I know sleeping more people would be ideal but if I was staying somewhere more long term it would be nice to have dedicated rooms or areas for work, game rooms, or other activities so I could enjoy my time there instead of having to go out for everything just for some privacy from the other guests in the house. since you are on youtube maybe reach out to some design channels and see if they would partner with you to do budget makeovers?
The last one seems great, but if y’all go with the land, you can do prefabricated barns. They can be turned into really nice homes/duplex apartments.
Anything pre-fab goes down in value.
You should just put your stuff from your current house in the rental and get yourself all new stuff in your house gradually. Not sure where you are looking but I would consider doing condo rentals that have already been serving that same purpose. Usually they sell those house’s furnished.
Out of those three, I like the second one that you walked through last.
We have stayed in a few rentals and most of them were furnished with Ikea items.
In the last house, why not make two sitting areas off the front entrance and keep the TV in a big "game" room. Then the sitting area could be stocked with boards games and cards and be a more "tech free" zone.
Ya the older houses are crazy because they usually just have one bath 🛀
The first property move the closet door to the other side of the closet or move the closet to under the slanted roof, it should fit nicely beside the baseboard heater, they only need to hang a few things, it's not for someone who lives there so they do not need much in the way of closets.
I do Airbnb rentals. 2021 has been a crap show :0 The guests have been terrible. I've been doing it for years and it has been so much fun - until now. I'm transitioning back to long term rentals. Good luck. It has been a real challenge with the lack of cleaning staff. I don't envy you with a large unit, that's for sure. I'd never go larger than a 2 bedroom. Edit: With Airbnbs you put in as many beds as you can. Squeeze them in the rooms even if you can barely walk around. Forget making it look the way YOU want. Edit 2: Cigarette smoke, get an ozone machine, I use it between every guest, it will remove the old smoke smell from the first building.
The wood room in the White House is a great room for a double bunk bed set up/kids room (kids cabin).
You literally made your own episode of House Hunters, and I love it lol
I’m not sure about your area, but in ours many people pay great money to rent garage space for their summer toys and vintage cars for the winter. It may make you money until you build it out.
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This was so much fun to see, and we stay in Airbnb's because they are so much better than hotels! I hope you guys can find something that works!
The house you like best plus a new en-suite bathroom for the master. You could off set some price by looking for deals on dressers and such at shops or on marketplace. Maybe look for tv’s on Black Friday sales?
It’s easy to mount TV’s in plaster just need a good drill our old home was built in mid century we did it in a couple of rooms plaster walls are great.
I wouldn’t put a tv in every room. Just the living room and maybe one bedroom. Thrift but buy quality. Especially good mattresses. You want the furniture to hold up.
Not enough baths in house 2
You think 2 baths is not enough?
@@christineunfiltered not for 14 people. We just stayed at an Airbnb with 3 bedrooms and two baths.
I would divide that big room into two. One side for TV and couches, one side for something else.
WOW ! Good for you guys but have you paid off your house yet ?
Renters would not be using the basement if you are doing air bnb unless they are putting their bikes and outdoor equipment in the basement.
One bathroom is a no no I would think for an air bnb.
White house TV in corner so it could be seen in the living room.and kirchen
Furnishings... thrifting!! So many fun things to thrift!
Suggestion… first check with airbnb that what you looking at meets their requirements. Maybe save less work n work
As soon as you said that there was a shop/garage I was thinking another rental BnB! I think I would go with the remodeled house as long as it passes an inspection. (Of course, we don't know what else you have looked at...)
I would say go with the white one out of the two. My only concern is the one bathroom. When my family has looked up places to stay before as soon as we saw it only had one bathroom we skipped right over it and we only had 6 people in our group.
Definitely the White House! That $100K is probably the same or less than what it would cost to fix the first house! Old houses are weird, it’s all the additions over a hundred years that aren’t quite cohesive🤷🏼♀️. Thrift stores for dishes and such!! Black Friday deals for furniture and bigger ticket items. When I’m at an Airbnb, I just want the basics and somewhere to hang towels and put my luggage. I hate when there are knick knacks everywhere that are in the way and I have to make sure the kids don’t break any!! What a fun adventure!!
You can get kitchen stuff at thrift stores
Christine, I'll always root for you but... are you sure short-term rentals are your thing? Your own home is SO undecorated... I just dunno. I've rented dozens of VRBOs and Airbnbs. They need to look warm, inviting, well-appointed, and welcoming. Maybe put a line item in for a decorator? I say this with love. Genuinely.
100%.
You could rent the shop out as a studio/shop. That said, I don't understand why you'd want to sleep so many people in a house?
Because a large family or group of friends could need that type of accommodation. Think reunions, bachelorette parties, etc.
@@rae3356 I guess I would think if that is what you were doing you would be looking for something significantly larger than a two or three bedroom house? I don't know. I've never done or been to anything like that. But I wouldn't want to cram that many people into that small of space with so few bathrooms. A kitchen table couldn't seat that many people either.
Like don't get me wrong for university travel we cram as many people as we can into hotel rooms but it is not a fun experience.
As a cyclist, I spend a premium on indoor basement situation for my bike=).
The first house is a no for me due to all the money you would need to invest in it to make it the way you want it. Rooms way too small and awkward and only 1 bathroom is a turn off for me. The basement is very dangerous with the stairs situation so unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money making it a usable space, I would lock it up & not have the customers use it. The updated home is the complete opposite and is basically move in ready. You have tons of options to choose from. In terms of furnishings it, I would think it would cost approximately $5k to furnish it assuming some of the items in it are new, such as mattress, TV, etc. The rest of the furniture & house hold items can be purchased second hand so that will keep costs down. Good luck on your investment property Christine!
I love these kinds of videos! Can't wait for more! ☺️
Just buy shares or invest in mutual funds, pension funds, etc....I've gained and lost money with property but just investing in shares/pension funds was way more profitable, less work, less anxiety, less problems.
This house with one bathroom....it might end up needing a lot of work!
Baseboard heaters are supposed to go under the windows.
If the first house is still a serious contender, I will say that for an AirBnB in an area where the main draw is outdoor activities... you can get away with no closets. Taking the closets out of the bedrooms opens up some layout options, I'm not sure if it would be cheaper than moving the baseboard heaters. However if the house is large enough that you would regularly be renting it out to groups larger than 4, having only one bathroom would be a deal-breaker for many people, as would a possible rodent infestation. All it takes is for one guest to see a mouse or droppings and they leave a bad review and you're done.
We love to stay in tiny homes on vacation.... maybe put some of those on the land....#airbnb
Please just let people buy homes to live in instead of inflating prices by buying investment properties
Especially bc she preaches about helping others in need. How is taking housing away from people who need it to make a quick buck helping out?
If it were me I would buy the land and look into prefab homes/tiny homes, if your town allows that. You could have a whole village of rentals. But zoning may not allow?
1st place is a NONO.
2nd place is cute! But why do people in the US use so many wall to wall carpets everywhere? They are so hard to keep really clean for people suffering from allergies and stuff.
I kinda like the land topic too, but I don't know too much about American land rules and stuff....