These people are 1000% super correct. The one most affordable item that can make a massive difference in force multiplier is a super quality weapon light that has good throw and monstrous spread. Awesome content. I look forward to seeing what comes next.
Gun mounted light denier here. Watched the entire video. 3 things: 1. Pointing your weapon mounted light at someone is ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON. 2. Put your camera man 25 yards to either side. You will see you are totally silhouetted and an easy target. 3. Once you turn on your light and then turn it off, YOU'RE BLIND TOO. All of what you said was true, but not nearly all the factors.
My number one gift, particularly for females, has always been 1-2k lumen rechargeable flashlights and explained to them how to use it as a weapon...disorient and flee, striking weapon, or simply to intimidate and show you're not a weak target. As someone who was carried with a WML for years I still learned from this video. Thanks for the content
Lumens means nothing, candela is king. If you want to give women something useful, provide them with a light throwing anywhere from 50,000-100,000 Candela. That's in the territory of, "FUCK MY EYES!" even during the daytime. You can have a 600-700 lumen light that has a hot spot in the region of 60,000 candela (look at Modlight, Cloud, Streamlight, Surefire, Arisaka/Malkoff) and that's what will actually be debilitating, the candela.
I used a flashlight once to prevent an assault. Had someone coming up on me and knew what was coming. Shined a light directly in his face, and I mean directly. I just said, "Hey, we good?" He squinted and couldn't see very well and I bounced before he could answer, leaving in the opposite direction. End of encounter. Lights are excellent, and everyone should have one. Criminals don't like to be seen, they don't like not being able to see, and they really hate people who confront them directly, because that equals a fight is coming, not a victim.
@Mr. McGuy i was biking before sunrise and had a pit bull run straight up to my leg to attack. All i could do was shine my microstream back and forth in its eyes and yell at it. That confused it enough that it ran off
It's a must have to have a separate hand held as we don't and can't always brandish a weapon and point it at someone or somewhere we need to illuminate. Good content. Thanks again
I play alot of indoor airsoft and I can confirm that when using a flashlight it disoriented people and most of the time made them go back into hiding of the cover they are behind making me able to move up onto their position safely
Only time I ever had to deploy my pistol, as a civilian, my handheld light was the thing that stopped the aggressors first. Made them pause and gave me a chance to draw behind the light where they couldn't see I had my gun out. Luckily, they decided to back out. Got their plates and sent the cops after them. In general, you're gonna be able to get more power out of handheld lights just because of the size (more battery, larger lenses etc) which is important for punching through photonic barriers. In my case, the two individuals in question were getting out of a vehicle and had their headlights on me and the weapon light I had at the time would not have been strong enough to effectively change their dispositions. Also, had I gone straight for my gun and relied solely on that light, shit probably would have gotten violent a lot quicker. Personally, I'm an advocate for carrying both just because there are situations where you want your white light out fast without the gun attached to it. Takes a few seconds to get your cell phone light up and a lot of times, they aren't much of a deterrent.
I want both hands on my gun.. if my gun malfunctions in any way I would have to drop my handheld light in order to clear it, then pick it back up.. No thanks.. in your scenario the handheld light worked for u, but what about a scenario where the aggressor pulls out a gun and it's a race to see who can land the first shot? If u got 2 hands on your gun you're way more accurate than with one hand on a light and the other on your pistol.. It takes training to be able to manipulate 2 objects with 2 hands, and a civilian who is scared for their lives is at a major disadvantage.. You're absolutely right about being an advocate for both, because in some situations pulling your gun isn't necessary and will only escalate situations.. But I think the conversation we are having is about being attacked or having your home being broken into
@@RonnieEverette If it had been a situation where I needed to go to the gun asap, I had that option. I carry both a handheld and a weapon light. I expressed that in my comment. In this particular situation, the handheld light was the de-escalator. If we're going to have the conversation anyway, de-escalation should always be at the top of the list. I'm all for blasting when its absolutely necessary, but most of the time it isnt. Also, I have one of those THRM widgets on my handheld that lets me release the grip on my light in case I need both hands for something else while retaining the light. So the point is, I wasn't ever really at a disadvantage.
@@RonnieEverette In what scenario are you going to be in where you somehow have defined the threat but not able to fight without a light? The chances that you are going to be far away and that it will be dark enough not to make shots on target is almost non existent. Activating a weapon mounted light in a "quick draw" situation is not something that happens. You draw, you shoot.
@1xayekim not able to fight without a light? 🤔 I guess I'm confused by the way u worded that question.. If someone breaks into your house at night having a light on your pistol is much more sensible than having a light in 1 hand and a gun in the other.. Waking up out of a dead sleep in a panic because u hear someone in your home, and thinking you'll have the awareness to grab your pistol and your light and manipulate both effectively is wishful thinking without serious training.. I've had someone break into my home before, and I'm telling u that at 30 yards away which is how far my bedroom is from the door they broke in at, I'm much more accurate with 2 hands on my pistol, and having 1 hand on a gun with 1 hand on a flashlight would have been a stupid choice for me in that instance.. And the same is true for u or anyone else in that predicament.. Im not even sure what yall are trying to argue against.. If u don't like lights on your guns, then don't put lights on them, but stop arguing nonsense.. A WML is far more sensible than a gun in 1 hand and a flashlight in the other.. Im glad u think u know which scenarios happen and don't happen.. too many of yall on social media who ain't never been I a situation where you've had to pull on somebody always got opinions about what happens or what doesn't happen
You guys have made excellent points about why a quality light is necessary for any EDC, but none of these points apply solely to weapon mounted lights. I can gather info, block info, or influence actions with a great handheld. The difference between handheld and weapon mounted really shines when shooting and pieing corners in my view.
You can also use a handheld light without getting the cops called on you. Dark parking lot? Handheld. Going for a walk? handheld. There’s all kinds of situations where one or the other is more beneficial.
@FishFind3000 Exactly, the video did its best, but it won't convince people who are stuck in their ways. The list I give people includes a few more details. A simple one that most shooters find tough to toss up is that a WML will help you shoot better, it adds weight and helps settle your muzzle. I also find that the holster shape of a pistol with a WML is a bit more comfortable (maybe not a TLR-1, but a TLR7A or TLR7 Sub).
TLR-7 is so anemic that it definitely isn’t worth the money or weight or space in the pants. Have you actually shot with one in the dark before? I used to have one and after like 2 rounds I couldn’t see the target 7 yards in front of me because the TLR-7 is too weak to cut through even a slight amount of gunsmoke. I’d way rather have a handheld modlite and a pistol without a light than just a pistol with an anemic wml.
Just in case anyone is interested: Switchback clip for $20 is a great tool to make a handheld light more usable in conjunction with a firearm. Essentially enables you to maintain the same firing grip as without a light. Doesn't cast a shadow. Still allows for all the benefits of a handheld light.
When it comes to using a white light on your gun, there’s something everyone needs to know. It comes with a huge responsibility. Everything he said is true, it can benefit you. But! Do realize that if you were clearing a house and you’re using that on the end of your gun. Everything you light up could easily be destroyed by touching the trigger. When you’re using a white light, you’re pointing your gun at anything that is lit up. If it’s a small child, you’re not pointing a loaded weapon at a small child. Or your wife. Or your neighbors wife. Get the point? Awesome. All I’m saying is, that is something you definitely want to keep in mind. Do not keep your finger on the trigger, keep it in a safe position. That being said. What an awesome video. The production value of team #DirtyCivilian it’s over the top. I’m on a binge right now, see you next video. LOL
@@FishFind3000 he is not wrong about candela, I just know that I am a sucker for lumens, if I see some flashlight has 10,000 lumens, I'm going to buy it just to see how bright it looks, even though it's not practical
@@Kylecombes4 just be weary of china made products with false advertising for crazy lumen levels. Check out a channel called "torque test channel" He did some testing on their claims and has surprising results.
Excellent points that are well demonstrated. I’ve used a flashlight for years to become invisible, notify people that their presence is noted, and dominate any interactions.
Gathering information with your WML is also known in all 50 states as brandishing a loaded weapon IF the information you gathered does not result in that person being a threat. You do not point a gun at a person trying to determine if they are a threat, you point a gun at a person AFTER you have determined they are a threat. Even in a break in scenario while you are perfectly able to point your gun at anybody you want in your house, however it behooves you to consider that there may be people inside your home that you maybe do not want to point a gun at. Now mind you when it comes to home defense, everyone has a different living situation and your living situation should predetermine how you go about this policy in your own home. Blocking info? This part is fascinating to me because case studies and my own experiences in training would indicate the exact opposite of what you imply here. You think that by pointing your weapon mounted light at a person while someone is using you as a body shield is going to offer them protection? I guess, maybe in a situation where the assailant is unarmed or armed with an edged weapon but in my experience people shoot at lights. Do a shoot house with opposing force training and you will find a very repetitive scenario playing out, where there is light, bbs or simmunitions manage to find that area. If you think shining your light in the direction of the bad guy is not going to attract fire , I really do not know what to tell you. Push, Pause, Prevent Action - This only implies that you are dealing with a trapped or cornered unarmed or armed with edge or blunt weapon not a firearm. Again, case studies and training would indicate the exact opposite with flash light use. If you are slicing the pie with a light and the person inside is barricaded they are going to just shoot at the door frame, or wall. Bullets go through walls and people understand that. The statistics in home defense and conceal carry simply do not play out to the narrative that you need a WML. Most home and self defense scenarios (and I have read through hundreds and watched a ridiculous amount of videos when I was writing Policy and Procedural manuals and consulting for insurance companies and security contractors with local, state and fed contracts) play out in ambient light responses. If you want to use a WML go for it, but you have to understand the pros and cons and I think the pros of a handheld light far outweigh the pros of the WML.
Great video! Every month or two, my shooters group and I do night firing. One night time shooting session with no WML does the trick in showing people what they're missing. Learned some new tricks here too!
I use a streamlight tlr-7a on my handgun which is great and affordable but I also carry a EDCL2-T for my handheld and when I go through the dark the EDCL2-T is out and if I see a threat the EDCL2-T gets dropped and the pew pew comes out with the light! They just got blinded with a 1200 lumen light while know getting blinded with a 500 lumen light. Although this is one scenario of the situation I made what you guys have explained are spot on! Keep it up guys we need more people like you
There's a major consideration with handguns. Because the flashlight is wider than the trigger guard and it's forward the trigger guard. Holsters made for weapon lights will not properly protect the trigger while the handgun is holstered. Something you need to consider.
1000% agree, my good friend was actually parked along side a road taking a nap on a long drive, some assailants walked up to his vehicle and started firing into the drivers side window before putting it in gear and breaking contact. He ended up taking 2 rounds but his analysis of the situation was, if he had a white light on him he possibly could’ve blinded them with a light as he continued to remove himself from the situation, rather than even return fire as most people would probably assume.
Might also want to consider that if you shine your light around the house the intruder can see where you are and where you're aiming and potentially use that information against you. You need to balance light discipline.
WML's are great for not shooting dogs willy-nilly. What they're not great for is illuminating things without flagging them with the muzzle. Training with one is extremely important, especially if you ever have to use it for home defense and have other people in the house. Learn to "bounce" the light off of the floor or ceiling, then directly on target once it's identified. This will help prevent tragic accidents in a high stress situation. In public, having a good standalone flashlight is a good idea. Using a Surefire mounted on your carry piece to light an area can lead to all sorts of problems better avoided. A small but bright clip on light is very handy in this scenario, especially one with an adjustable head. This allows you to clip it on a pocket, shirt or hat and illuminate your surroundings while keeping both hands free. Or holding your weapon. Great video on an important topic. A WML is still the most commonly used "night vision device" in conjunction with a firearm. Learn to use it correctly, and safely, and it could save your life. Stay strapped, stay safe and stay dirty!
Correct, that’s why it’s important to carry both. If you’re out in public and there’s not an *imminent* threat but there’s something that you need to look at with a light, you can’t just break out the blaster and potentially point it at someone as in most states that’s deadly force and assault with a deadly weapon. However, obviously this video is just speaking about situations where you know a firearm is going to be needed in one way or another.
Yeah but who doesnt carry a handlight? Women and kids. Seriously guys carry a flashlight. For most of us its dark when we leave the house and dark when we get home. Flashlight will get more daily use than a pocket knife or a multitool
I do airsoft a lot, and the first match I did in the dark was a 2v2 and one guy on the other team had a white light on his rifle, I had no light source. I had a situation where I knew my teammate was ahead of me to m right and I saw a light come on through a window to my left, with some guestimation I pointed my rifle at where I expected him to be behind the light and started firing. I came out of the exchange as the survivor. Rare unique situation, and it was somewhat obvious, even not having training myself, that he didn't either, and didn't have the discipline to know when to keep it off or turn it off, past keeping it off till close enough to make use of it.
some things i came up with is to have some fasting salts in a bugout bag 1tsp daily in a small container can keep you alive for 40 ish days. also in a urban scenario to use peoples trash bins as concealment also you can even add dirt and drag it around with you in the streets, side walk and use it as cover. also pools in apartments can be used as drinking water etc
Great content!! Do you guys also train Jiu-Jitsu? If yes, please make videos explaining why as a Ccw holder it can benefit you greatly in many citations(such as gun retention..) Keep it up!
@@betovargas9671 ya so true, so many people just put a gun on them and think there good. People who don’t train, jujitsu or wrestling don’t even understand how vulnerable they really are…
I move a lot due to mine/my wifes careers, so I never got to train anywhere very long, but I've been very lucky to train BJJ with some great people (Rolles Gracie, Colton Smith, Tim Kennedy, Matt Larsen, Rich Clementi, Cesar Cabrera, Damian Stelly, Chad Lebrun etc). I agree 100% about grappling going hand in hand with carrying a firearm.
I agree from a tactics perspective, however. Searching with a WML puts you in the position to point a gun at some innocent person who dosnt need a gun pointed at them. Could open the door for legal complications. Like aggravated assault with a FA or something far worse a negligent shooting.
Pointing a loaded weapon without legal justification is aggravated assault. You may not be jailed, but it is a felony, and if convicted as such you will lose your firearms.
Awesome video, I have always have a WML on my carry. I've got a comfortable record with streamlight and always push for people, that do carry, to carry a WML. Never thought of using the airsoft guns to prove the point!
Don't forget, searching with a wespons mounted light should be a last resort. That is a loaded firearm attached to that light, thats how you accidentally shoot before you intend to.
@@JEJAK5396 Correct, However if memory serves the first rule of firearms is, Don't point your firearm at anything you don't want to destroy. Also, we are talking about dirty civilians In the middle of the night, not a SOF operator in a combat zone.
The whole point of the wml is to see, process who you see, and prevent that from happening if needed bc I would say no light with a weapon pulled is much more dangerous. If you think you can’t not shoot someone who isn’t a threat after seeing them with a light that’s a you problem not a “civilian” problem. You bring a good argument for a handheld where you don’t know if you need the fire arm yet but want to process the information which you should also carry for a lot of other reasons too.
@@dylanwatson8468 To each their own, ever tool adds versitility, but it seems to me I see alot of military and LEOs make the wrong calls quite frequently, Blue on Blue mistakes are the worst, and always blamed on the 'bad guy', just don't let your 5 minuite education on flashlights by the guy behind the counter at Cabelas inflate your ego too much.
@@xunheilvsnipezx3324 exactly, taking another outside context that far more complicated and relaying it as if it completely relevant for a civilian situation. Just like you said we’re spec ops and we’re not cops. I don’t see wml being the problem there either, it’s all the other factors with lack of communication and knowing the situation that causes that problem. Keep on telling how my ego needs to be checked bc I have an understanding and confidence in my ability to not shoot immediately. While you keep bringing unrelated context to this discussion. Use the appropriate tool for the given situation, I’d never draw the weapon with a light just because I heard my door open and I had kids that could be just coming home, because having the light attached is a factor but when it comes time to actually using that weapon, the light being attached also can the be the factor to make a difference. Point being is when the situation dictates I should draw the weapon I see no down side to having the light as opposed to not having one. It’s ok, I hate cabbalas too lol
Where I live, burglars/home invasions start with them flicking the power off at your switchboard which is external to the house. This is either to disable security cameras, or sometimes to draw the homeowner outside to check their power. I've seen people say 'just turn the lights on'... yeh okay pal. Anyway I'm an aussie so don't listen to anything I say anyway
@@dirty-civilian It does raise a good question. When should you *not* fire off your light? Would also be good to hear your feedback on visible lasers. Thanks for the awesome content!
if you come down to texas you can speak and connect with a couple ppl down here im in fortworth i think john lovell of warrior poet society is just south and you can go to austin to speak with alex jones etc
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. It's good to play the "what if" game in your head now, so you don't have to think too much when you have to defend yourself or a loved one.
With more people making a light mandatory on their defensive firearms that puts the pressure on gun makers to make sure they can be equipped with a light. Guns like the Masada Slim and the S&W Shield Plus are dropping the ball
All that is true, the legal problem I can see it when you have a weapon mounted light and you’re searching with it you are brandishing a firearm and pointing 8:20 a loaded weapon at an innocent individual, you can be charged and imprisoned for that
Don't short change the message. You need a WML *and a handheld light.* There are few cases where you only need one, and not the other. Far fewer than the number of places where you _don't_ need any light.
Tom Grieve actually covered this recently, he hasn't dealt with or seen a case of a civilian using a WML. Additionally, you shouldn't be searching with the WML, if you are, then you're breaking a cardinal rule of gun safety. Carry a light for searching, train to drop that light, and switch to your WML. Light provides information and i formation is valuable, it stops you from being like that Brazilian guy who is on camera shooting his neighbor because he couldn't positively identify that the individual coming out of the darkness wasn't a robber. Here's another great reason to put a WML on your gun, and this is going to break a lot of hearts. It's weight will help you shoot better...yes, the reason a lot of your favorite UA-cam personalities throw a gigantic Uboat on the pistol they are covering is because it helps them look better on camera. Even a simple TLR7 sub will make a noticeable difference on a small pistol. Just remember that you need to keep it clean. I find that a comped gun keeps the light cleaner, 500 rounds deep, and my lens is clear instead of 100rds deep and experiencing reduced light output. PS. Seriously, sign up for a WML class. I know not all of you are lucky enough to have access to a dark range.
Great content, as usual. 👍 I can't think of a good reason NOT to have a WML on a "work gun." In fact, for me a WML typically gets added before an electro-optic; you can use a pistol OR rifle in low light to great effect with only iron sights if you have a decent WML.
Great video and good points thanks guys but unfortunately I believe by glossing over the importance of the EDC carry light you may be undoing some of the good in your overall message. The EDC torch should be seen as the “spare mag” to the weapon mounted light and a great importance. That importance is furthered by the fact that most of life’s situations where a light is needed would be inappropriately addressed and illegally addressed with a WML . For example, you may walk into a dark room where you’re not expecting a threat and because you only carry a WML , you enter the room without a light source “ in hand” with the ability to gain or deny information as you stated in the video. Both light sources are important to have. Keep up the great work 👍👍👍
I would say you have those reversed, my EDC light sees 100x as much use as the WML and with a switchback clip you can even use it while gripping the gun (mostly) normally.
We felt like that was common sense and not the uphill battle that is the WML subject. Though that subject is addressed on our low light resource page that went live alongside this video.
@@dirty-civilian What would you say to those who are actually coming from a place of knowledge, with the argument that the vast majority of recorded civilian DGUs out side of the home do not involve/benefit from WMLs? I'm speaking specifically about people like John Coreia of ASP who are basing their arguments off of video DGUs. Personally I think they're suffering from a selection bias, very low light and no light areas aren't going to have security cameras in the first place (or else theyd be lit so the camera can see) and the reality is that most people don't carry WMLs so by nature there's going to be less videos out there of them being used in the wild, but I'm curious what your take on it is?
Something not mentioned was that the person whom the light is pointed at will not be aware that a weapon is attached to the light and may respond accordingly.
I wish the TP9 had a better trigger; it would be a more complete system than the Flux. However, I understand the appeal of the Flux using the p320 ecosystem.
I worked military and private sector. I would suggest having a weapon light for sure. But for pistols I like to keep it bare bones and attach the light as needed. When you start adding gear to your pistol you limit its biggest advantages which is speed and concealable.
i dont see how speed is affected by adding a wml, even concealability. i ccw a glock 17 with light everyday and its equally as concealed as without the light.
We’ve found handguns with WMLs to be even more concealable due to the “Keel” effect. Phlster does a great job explaining this: ua-cam.com/video/_wyoLTCWEeo/v-deo.html
@@dirty-civilian I will check the video out. But I think weapon mounted lights and attachments in general is total preference for pistols specifically. I prefer nothing on my pistol and carry a light I can mount to it if needed as a backup to my main flashlight. For home defense you can buy lights that attach to the outlets with a battery backup and you can place mirrors to check specific corners and odd angles. This largely eliminates the need for a flashlight in the home unless you go outside (which I wouldn't suggest in a home invasion scenario) Ultimately I see nothing wrong either way as long as you train and prepare accordingly.
What about exposing your position by turning on the light? I am 100% agree with you, but my father have that point of view that makes me think about it.
My dads friend gave us his Vector Optics green laser with white light combo, can it be used on a real gun, cant remember if he got it for airsoft, couldnt find anything about it besides that it is a very good brand, and when I used it it shone far, hope I can get into guns, once I have my ID I wanna try getting the competency certificate and try to get a gun(Im only 16 soon but they say you can get a gun with a good enough reason, there are gunshops and sports clubs near me, hope it is still possible, they raised the age from 18 to 21 in South Africa). Great video, didnt think they would be this useful
The only weapon I don’t carry a WML on is my CC pistol. My reason is more about ND’ing the light than anything. Three of my other pistols have them though
These people are 1000% super correct. The one most affordable item that can make a massive difference in force multiplier is a super quality weapon light that has good throw and monstrous spread. Awesome content. I look forward to seeing what comes next.
Gun mounted light denier here. Watched the entire video. 3 things: 1. Pointing your weapon mounted light at someone is ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON. 2. Put your camera man 25 yards to either side. You will see you are totally silhouetted and an easy target. 3. Once you turn on your light and then turn it off, YOU'RE BLIND TOO. All of what you said was true, but not nearly all the factors.
My number one gift, particularly for females, has always been 1-2k lumen rechargeable flashlights and explained to them how to use it as a weapon...disorient and flee, striking weapon, or simply to intimidate and show you're not a weak target.
As someone who was carried with a WML for years I still learned from this video.
Thanks for the content
Lumens means nothing, candela is king. If you want to give women something useful, provide them with a light throwing anywhere from 50,000-100,000 Candela. That's in the territory of, "FUCK MY EYES!" even during the daytime. You can have a 600-700 lumen light that has a hot spot in the region of 60,000 candela (look at Modlight, Cloud, Streamlight, Surefire, Arisaka/Malkoff) and that's what will actually be debilitating, the candela.
I used a flashlight once to prevent an assault. Had someone coming up on me and knew what was coming. Shined a light directly in his face, and I mean directly. I just said, "Hey, we good?" He squinted and couldn't see very well and I bounced before he could answer, leaving in the opposite direction. End of encounter. Lights are excellent, and everyone should have one. Criminals don't like to be seen, they don't like not being able to see, and they really hate people who confront them directly, because that equals a fight is coming, not a victim.
@Mr. McGuy i was biking before sunrise and had a pit bull run straight up to my leg to attack. All i could do was shine my microstream back and forth in its eyes and yell at it. That confused it enough that it ran off
💯
Calling it now, this channel is going places. Getting t-rex arms vibes, which is awesome.
That's because they work with and for Trex arms lol
I didn’t get a weapon light until I started working night shift, I did my research and spared no expense on something I’m going to trust my life with
It's a must have to have a separate hand held as we don't and can't always brandish a weapon and point it at someone or somewhere we need to illuminate. Good content. Thanks again
I play alot of indoor airsoft and I can confirm that when using a flashlight it disoriented people and most of the time made them go back into hiding of the cover they are behind making me able to move up onto their position safely
Only time I ever had to deploy my pistol, as a civilian, my handheld light was the thing that stopped the aggressors first. Made them pause and gave me a chance to draw behind the light where they couldn't see I had my gun out. Luckily, they decided to back out. Got their plates and sent the cops after them. In general, you're gonna be able to get more power out of handheld lights just because of the size (more battery, larger lenses etc) which is important for punching through photonic barriers. In my case, the two individuals in question were getting out of a vehicle and had their headlights on me and the weapon light I had at the time would not have been strong enough to effectively change their dispositions. Also, had I gone straight for my gun and relied solely on that light, shit probably would have gotten violent a lot quicker.
Personally, I'm an advocate for carrying both just because there are situations where you want your white light out fast without the gun attached to it. Takes a few seconds to get your cell phone light up and a lot of times, they aren't much of a deterrent.
I want both hands on my gun.. if my gun malfunctions in any way I would have to drop my handheld light in order to clear it, then pick it back up.. No thanks.. in your scenario the handheld light worked for u, but what about a scenario where the aggressor pulls out a gun and it's a race to see who can land the first shot? If u got 2 hands on your gun you're way more accurate than with one hand on a light and the other on your pistol.. It takes training to be able to manipulate 2 objects with 2 hands, and a civilian who is scared for their lives is at a major disadvantage.. You're absolutely right about being an advocate for both, because in some situations pulling your gun isn't necessary and will only escalate situations.. But I think the conversation we are having is about being attacked or having your home being broken into
@@RonnieEverette If it had been a situation where I needed to go to the gun asap, I had that option. I carry both a handheld and a weapon light. I expressed that in my comment. In this particular situation, the handheld light was the de-escalator. If we're going to have the conversation anyway, de-escalation should always be at the top of the list. I'm all for blasting when its absolutely necessary, but most of the time it isnt. Also, I have one of those THRM widgets on my handheld that lets me release the grip on my light in case I need both hands for something else while retaining the light. So the point is, I wasn't ever really at a disadvantage.
@@RonnieEverette In what scenario are you going to be in where you somehow have defined the threat but not able to fight without a light?
The chances that you are going to be far away and that it will be dark enough not to make shots on target is almost non existent.
Activating a weapon mounted light in a "quick draw" situation is not something that happens. You draw, you shoot.
@1xayekim not able to fight without a light? 🤔 I guess I'm confused by the way u worded that question..
If someone breaks into your house at night having a light on your pistol is much more sensible than having a light in 1 hand and a gun in the other.. Waking up out of a dead sleep in a panic because u hear someone in your home, and thinking you'll have the awareness to grab your pistol and your light and manipulate both effectively is wishful thinking without serious training..
I've had someone break into my home before, and I'm telling u that at 30 yards away which is how far my bedroom is from the door they broke in at, I'm much more accurate with 2 hands on my pistol, and having 1 hand on a gun with 1 hand on a flashlight would have been a stupid choice for me in that instance.. And the same is true for u or anyone else in that predicament.. Im not even sure what yall are trying to argue against.. If u don't like lights on your guns, then don't put lights on them, but stop arguing nonsense.. A WML is far more sensible than a gun in 1 hand and a flashlight in the other.. Im glad u think u know which scenarios happen and don't happen.. too many of yall on social media who ain't never been I a situation where you've had to pull on somebody always got opinions about what happens or what doesn't happen
You guys have made excellent points about why a quality light is necessary for any EDC, but none of these points apply solely to weapon mounted lights.
I can gather info, block info, or influence actions with a great handheld.
The difference between handheld and weapon mounted really shines when shooting and pieing corners in my view.
Agreed!
You can also use a handheld light without getting the cops called on you. Dark parking lot? Handheld. Going for a walk? handheld.
There’s all kinds of situations where one or the other is more beneficial.
@FishFind3000 Exactly, the video did its best, but it won't convince people who are stuck in their ways. The list I give people includes a few more details. A simple one that most shooters find tough to toss up is that a WML will help you shoot better, it adds weight and helps settle your muzzle. I also find that the holster shape of a pistol with a WML is a bit more comfortable (maybe not a TLR-1, but a TLR7A or TLR7 Sub).
TLR-7 is so anemic that it definitely isn’t worth the money or weight or space in the pants. Have you actually shot with one in the dark before? I used to have one and after like 2 rounds I couldn’t see the target 7 yards in front of me because the TLR-7 is too weak to cut through even a slight amount of gunsmoke. I’d way rather have a handheld modlite and a pistol without a light than just a pistol with an anemic wml.
@@benthephilosopher Reading this makes me glad I didn't buy one and stayed with my tlr1
Just in case anyone is interested: Switchback clip for $20 is a great tool to make a handheld light more usable in conjunction with a firearm. Essentially enables you to maintain the same firing grip as without a light. Doesn't cast a shadow. Still allows for all the benefits of a handheld light.
Its criminal that this comment doesnt have more likes.
If u train with it, it can be a very useful tool
Keep up the great work, while I'm sure it's in the works a civilian drone operation video would be great.
That's the plan!
I've got some drone surveillance stuff on my channel!
When it comes to using a white light on your gun, there’s something everyone needs to know. It comes with a huge responsibility. Everything he said is true, it can benefit you. But! Do realize that if you were clearing a house and you’re using that on the end of your gun. Everything you light up could easily be destroyed by touching the trigger. When you’re using a white light, you’re pointing your gun at anything that is lit up. If it’s a small child, you’re not pointing a loaded weapon at a small child. Or your wife. Or your neighbors wife. Get the point? Awesome. All I’m saying is, that is something you definitely want to keep in mind. Do not keep your finger on the trigger, keep it in a safe position. That being said. What an awesome video. The production value of team #DirtyCivilian it’s over the top. I’m on a binge right now, see you next video. LOL
As much as I agree with a wall of light blocking information, the amount of lumens does play a factor, because too much can light up your area as well
Candela really pierces the eyes and with a solid photonic barrier, it's a game changer. But yes, be picky about the light you choose.
I’ve played with my light indoors and high lumens in the dark can also blind you when you hit a wall.
@@FishFind3000 he is not wrong about candela, I just know that I am a sucker for lumens, if I see some flashlight has 10,000 lumens, I'm going to buy it just to see how bright it looks, even though it's not practical
@@Kylecombes4 just be weary of china made products with false advertising for crazy lumen levels. Check out a channel called "torque test channel" He did some testing on their claims and has surprising results.
Excellent points that are well demonstrated. I’ve used a flashlight for years to become invisible, notify people that their presence is noted, and dominate any interactions.
Rude
Ha
Gathering information with your WML is also known in all 50 states as brandishing a loaded weapon IF the information you gathered does not result in that person being a threat. You do not point a gun at a person trying to determine if they are a threat, you point a gun at a person AFTER you have determined they are a threat. Even in a break in scenario while you are perfectly able to point your gun at anybody you want in your house, however it behooves you to consider that there may be people inside your home that you maybe do not want to point a gun at. Now mind you when it comes to home defense, everyone has a different living situation and your living situation should predetermine how you go about this policy in your own home.
Blocking info? This part is fascinating to me because case studies and my own experiences in training would indicate the exact opposite of what you imply here. You think that by pointing your weapon mounted light at a person while someone is using you as a body shield is going to offer them protection? I guess, maybe in a situation where the assailant is unarmed or armed with an edged weapon but in my experience people shoot at lights. Do a shoot house with opposing force training and you will find a very repetitive scenario playing out, where there is light, bbs or simmunitions manage to find that area. If you think shining your light in the direction of the bad guy is not going to attract fire , I really do not know what to tell you.
Push, Pause, Prevent Action - This only implies that you are dealing with a trapped or cornered unarmed or armed with edge or blunt weapon not a firearm. Again, case studies and training would indicate the exact opposite with flash light use. If you are slicing the pie with a light and the person inside is barricaded they are going to just shoot at the door frame, or wall. Bullets go through walls and people understand that.
The statistics in home defense and conceal carry simply do not play out to the narrative that you need a WML. Most home and self defense scenarios (and I have read through hundreds and watched a ridiculous amount of videos when I was writing Policy and Procedural manuals and consulting for insurance companies and security contractors with local, state and fed contracts) play out in ambient light responses.
If you want to use a WML go for it, but you have to understand the pros and cons and I think the pros of a handheld light far outweigh the pros of the WML.
Great video! Every month or two, my shooters group and I do night firing. One night time shooting session with no WML does the trick in showing people what they're missing. Learned some new tricks here too!
I use a streamlight tlr-7a on my handgun which is great and affordable but I also carry a EDCL2-T for my handheld and when I go through the dark the EDCL2-T is out and if I see a threat the EDCL2-T gets dropped and the pew pew comes out with the light! They just got blinded with a 1200 lumen light while know getting blinded with a 500 lumen light. Although this is one scenario of the situation I made what you guys have explained are spot on! Keep it up guys we need more people like you
There's a major consideration with handguns. Because the flashlight is wider than the trigger guard and it's forward the trigger guard. Holsters made for weapon lights will not properly protect the trigger while the handgun is holstered. Something you need to consider.
Not true
Buy a quality holster lol
get a good holster made for the light then
1000% agree, my good friend was actually parked along side a road taking a nap on a long drive, some assailants walked up to his vehicle and started firing into the drivers side window before putting it in gear and breaking contact. He ended up taking 2 rounds but his analysis of the situation was, if he had a white light on him he possibly could’ve blinded them with a light as he continued to remove himself from the situation, rather than even return fire as most people would probably assume.
Thank you. This video convinced me to buy a mounted lights
Yeah this is solid- definitely wouldn't have any firearms without a light.
Might also want to consider that if you shine your light around the house the intruder can see where you are and where you're aiming and potentially use that information against you. You need to balance light discipline.
WML's are great for not shooting dogs willy-nilly. What they're not great for is illuminating things without flagging them with the muzzle. Training with one is extremely important, especially if you ever have to use it for home defense and have other people in the house.
Learn to "bounce" the light off of the floor or ceiling, then directly on target once it's identified. This will help prevent tragic accidents in a high stress situation.
In public, having a good standalone flashlight is a good idea. Using a Surefire mounted on your carry piece to light an area can lead to all sorts of problems better avoided. A small but bright clip on light is very handy in this scenario, especially one with an adjustable head. This allows you to clip it on a pocket, shirt or hat and illuminate your surroundings while keeping both hands free.
Or holding your weapon.
Great video on an important topic. A WML is still the most commonly used "night vision device" in conjunction with a firearm. Learn to use it correctly, and safely, and it could save your life.
Stay strapped, stay safe and stay dirty!
Best arguement/examples for WMLs I've seen. Kudos!
👍🤜💥🤛
You may need a weapon light... but you still need to start a general search with a handheld light.
here here
Correct, that’s why it’s important to carry both. If you’re out in public and there’s not an *imminent* threat but there’s something that you need to look at with a light, you can’t just break out the blaster and potentially point it at someone as in most states that’s deadly force and assault with a deadly weapon. However, obviously this video is just speaking about situations where you know a firearm is going to be needed in one way or another.
Yeah but who doesnt carry a handlight? Women and kids. Seriously guys carry a flashlight. For most of us its dark when we leave the house and dark when we get home. Flashlight will get more daily use than a pocket knife or a multitool
In an LE environment sure.
You “may” need to start a general search w handheld. Not everyone will have to do this. It’s situational and not always necessary.
Great info, and I totally agree all weapons should have a light
I do airsoft a lot, and the first match I did in the dark was a 2v2 and one guy on the other team had a white light on his rifle, I had no light source. I had a situation where I knew my teammate was ahead of me to m right and I saw a light come on through a window to my left, with some guestimation I pointed my rifle at where I expected him to be behind the light and started firing. I came out of the exchange as the survivor. Rare unique situation, and it was somewhat obvious, even not having training myself, that he didn't either, and didn't have the discipline to know when to keep it off or turn it off, past keeping it off till close enough to make use of it.
some things i came up with is to have some fasting salts in a bugout bag 1tsp daily in a small container can keep you alive for 40 ish days. also in a urban scenario to use peoples trash bins as concealment also you can even add dirt and drag it around with you in the streets, side walk and use it as cover. also pools in apartments can be used as drinking water etc
This channel is top tier great info and great filming love it!
5:55 “inner thigh”
Aka Josh hit prone and nailed drew in the nads lol
It happened.
The demonstrations of perspectives was pretty helpful
Great content!!
Do you guys also train Jiu-Jitsu? If yes, please make videos explaining why as a Ccw holder it can benefit you greatly in many citations(such as gun retention..)
Keep it up!
This, Brown belt here. such a neglected skill I’ve noticed a lot of gun guys usually don’t train on.
@@betovargas9671 ya so true, so many people just put a gun on them and think there good. People who don’t train, jujitsu or wrestling don’t even understand how vulnerable they really are…
Much more likely to go hands on, than shoot someone, agreed 100%. One should know everything
I move a lot due to mine/my wifes careers, so I never got to train anywhere very long, but I've been very lucky to train BJJ with some great people (Rolles Gracie, Colton Smith, Tim Kennedy, Matt Larsen, Rich Clementi, Cesar Cabrera, Damian Stelly, Chad Lebrun etc). I agree 100% about grappling going hand in hand with carrying a firearm.
check out Craig Douglas from Shivworks
Love the channel. Keep up the good work.
I agree from a tactics perspective, however. Searching with a WML puts you in the position to point a gun at some innocent person who dosnt need a gun pointed at them. Could open the door for legal complications. Like aggravated assault with a FA or something far worse a negligent shooting.
Pointing a loaded weapon without legal justification is aggravated assault. You may not be jailed, but it is a felony, and if convicted as such you will lose your firearms.
Awesome video, I have always have a WML on my carry. I've got a comfortable record with streamlight and always push for people, that do carry, to carry a WML. Never thought of using the airsoft guns to prove the point!
Don't forget, searching with a wespons mounted light should be a last resort. That is a loaded firearm attached to that light, thats how you accidentally shoot before you intend to.
A light on a gun doesn’t mean you’ll shoot anyone anymore than headlights on your car will guarantee you’ll run into a pedestrian.
@@JEJAK5396 Correct, However if memory serves the first rule of firearms is, Don't point your firearm at anything you don't want to destroy.
Also, we are talking about dirty civilians In the middle of the night, not a SOF operator in a combat zone.
The whole point of the wml is to see, process who you see, and prevent that from happening if needed bc I would say no light with a weapon pulled is much more dangerous. If you think you can’t not shoot someone who isn’t a threat after seeing them with a light that’s a you problem not a “civilian” problem. You bring a good argument for a handheld where you don’t know if you need the fire arm yet but want to process the information which you should also carry for a lot of other reasons too.
@@dylanwatson8468 To each their own, ever tool adds versitility, but it seems to me I see alot of military and LEOs make the wrong calls quite frequently, Blue on Blue mistakes are the worst, and always blamed on the 'bad guy', just don't let your 5 minuite education on flashlights by the guy behind the counter at Cabelas inflate your ego too much.
@@xunheilvsnipezx3324 exactly, taking another outside context that far more complicated and relaying it as if it completely relevant for a civilian situation. Just like you said we’re spec ops and we’re not cops. I don’t see wml being the problem there either, it’s all the other factors with lack of communication and knowing the situation that causes that problem. Keep on telling how my ego needs to be checked bc I have an understanding and confidence in my ability to not shoot immediately. While you keep bringing unrelated context to this discussion. Use the appropriate tool for the given situation, I’d never draw the weapon with a light just because I heard my door open and I had kids that could be just coming home, because having the light attached is a factor but when it comes time to actually using that weapon, the light being attached also can the be the factor to make a difference. Point being is when the situation dictates I should draw the weapon I see no down side to having the light as opposed to not having one. It’s ok, I hate cabbalas too lol
This is Massad Ayoob’s opinion. Have a separate flashlight for searching as you are flagging everything you point your WML at, not always a bad guy
Keep the videos coming!!
Great info!
Where I live, burglars/home invasions start with them flicking the power off at your switchboard which is external to the house. This is either to disable security cameras, or sometimes to draw the homeowner outside to check their power. I've seen people say 'just turn the lights on'... yeh okay pal. Anyway I'm an aussie so don't listen to anything I say anyway
As a Texan who was former US military I can say I enjoy hanging out with Aussies.
Common practice to draw occupant outside.
I would appreciate the pre-warning of a power outage!
Thanks guys 👍.
I already knew why I need a weapon light, but I came for the cinematography.
For me HD weps get WMLs, carry guns do not.
I do edc a handheld.
Love the videos and the mission/message. Train train train.
Now you have to make another video about the reasons not to own a weapon light!
You mean a parody video? Haha
@@dirty-civilian It does raise a good question. When should you *not* fire off your light? Would also be good to hear your feedback on visible lasers.
Thanks for the awesome content!
WML for my edc and go to rifles always.
Definitely time for me to invest in a gnarly hand held though
This is really good stuff. Thank you!! ❤🇺🇸
Dudes... that "What you can't see" demo with the rifles was... hot
Very good information. Very good explanation. DC is going to be huge! Keep it up, brothers.
So far I'm really digging this this channel
Appreciate people with perspective from civilian standpoint. People think I’m crazy training in CA lol get more hate than love here
Would like to see a part 2 - night vision team vs white light team
It should be noted that sometimes I want to see in the dark without pointing my gun. Therefore, have both a standalone light and a weapon mounted one.
if you come down to texas you can speak and connect with a couple ppl down here im in fortworth i think john lovell of warrior poet society is just south and you can go to austin to speak with alex jones etc
Keep in mind pointing a gun/WML at a person could land you in jail for aggravated assault depending on state law and prosecutor
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. It's good to play the "what if" game in your head now, so you don't have to think too much when you have to defend yourself or a loved one.
With more people making a light mandatory on their defensive firearms that puts the pressure on gun makers to make sure they can be equipped with a light.
Guns like the Masada Slim and the S&W Shield Plus are dropping the ball
Just bought my first stream light 500 lumens for my conceal carry I hope it can perform really well !
All that is true, the legal problem I can see it when you have a weapon mounted light and you’re searching with it you are brandishing a firearm and pointing 8:20 a loaded weapon at an innocent individual, you can be charged and imprisoned for that
Don't short change the message. You need a WML *and a handheld light.*
There are few cases where you only need one, and not the other. Far fewer than the number of places where you _don't_ need any light.
IMO handheld light is mandatory, WML is great to have but optional. You can do a lot more with a light that isn't attached to a gun than one that is.
Tom Grieve actually covered this recently, he hasn't dealt with or seen a case of a civilian using a WML. Additionally, you shouldn't be searching with the WML, if you are, then you're breaking a cardinal rule of gun safety.
Carry a light for searching, train to drop that light, and switch to your WML. Light provides information and i formation is valuable, it stops you from being like that Brazilian guy who is on camera shooting his neighbor because he couldn't positively identify that the individual coming out of the darkness wasn't a robber.
Here's another great reason to put a WML on your gun, and this is going to break a lot of hearts. It's weight will help you shoot better...yes, the reason a lot of your favorite UA-cam personalities throw a gigantic Uboat on the pistol they are covering is because it helps them look better on camera. Even a simple TLR7 sub will make a noticeable difference on a small pistol.
Just remember that you need to keep it clean. I find that a comped gun keeps the light cleaner, 500 rounds deep, and my lens is clear instead of 100rds deep and experiencing reduced light output.
PS. Seriously, sign up for a WML class. I know not all of you are lucky enough to have access to a dark range.
great video! good info and examples! loving this channel!
I work nights with a M18, it isn’t issued with a WML and am not allowed to modify it. 😢
I love this channel
Amazing channel and connent thank you guys!
Awesome channel dude. Love the content and the quality. Keep it up!
Yes, keep the content coming, 👏 ❤
very good, nice job
Great content, as usual. 👍 I can't think of a good reason NOT to have a WML on a "work gun." In fact, for me a WML typically gets added before an electro-optic; you can use a pistol OR rifle in low light to great effect with only iron sights if you have a decent WML.
Mas says, pointing your weapon mounted light at an intruder, opens you up for brandishing charges.
Be safe out there.
Actually, I think he said aggravated assault charges.
Only if you called the cops like a sucker. at any rate, in Texas I can use deadly force in response to "criminal mischief" so ymmv
If you're an intruder, you've already crossed the threshold for lethal force.
Solid content. Thank you.
Awesome points. Mainly just commenting to help boost the algorithm 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
Love this channel! Thanks, buff Lucas Botkin
I subbed around 28k. Just saying that to know that I was an OG before this channel blows up.
I have night sights on my carry gun but not a light. I carry my flashlight separately.
@Dirty-civilian do y’all have like an AR set up? I’d love to know
Howdy howdy from Tucson
Having a gun without a light is like looking for things in your house when it's dark and the power's out. It just doesn't work as well
Great video and good points thanks guys but unfortunately I believe by glossing over the importance of the EDC carry light you may be undoing some of the good in your overall message. The EDC torch should be seen as the “spare mag” to the weapon mounted light and a great importance. That importance is furthered by the fact that most of life’s situations where a light is needed would be inappropriately addressed and illegally addressed with a WML . For example, you may walk into a dark room where you’re not expecting a threat and because you only carry a WML , you enter the room without a light source “ in hand” with the ability to gain or deny information as you stated in the video.
Both light sources are important to have.
Keep up the great work 👍👍👍
I would say you have those reversed, my EDC light sees 100x as much use as the WML and with a switchback clip you can even use it while gripping the gun (mostly) normally.
That was my point - the EDC should not have been glossed over - it is actually your PRIMARY tool for information gathering and denial
@@peterjames298 oh when you called it the spare mag to the WML primary that made me think you were making the opposite argument lol
We felt like that was common sense and not the uphill battle that is the WML subject. Though that subject is addressed on our low light resource page that went live alongside this video.
@@dirty-civilian What would you say to those who are actually coming from a place of knowledge, with the argument that the vast majority of recorded civilian DGUs out side of the home do not involve/benefit from WMLs? I'm speaking specifically about people like John Coreia of ASP who are basing their arguments off of video DGUs. Personally I think they're suffering from a selection bias, very low light and no light areas aren't going to have security cameras in the first place (or else theyd be lit so the camera can see) and the reality is that most people don't carry WMLs so by nature there's going to be less videos out there of them being used in the wild, but I'm curious what your take on it is?
Excellent video.
2:07 has Josh looking exactly like Lucas Botkin
Something not mentioned was that the person whom the light is pointed at will not be aware that a weapon is attached to the light and may respond accordingly.
🔥🔥🔥
I wish the TP9 had a better trigger; it would be a more complete system than the Flux. However, I understand the appeal of the Flux using the p320 ecosystem.
As long as you have a seperate searching lamp
"we are not like the atf who just shoots dogs willy nilly. shoot anything that moves" - Instant subscribe
Watched your first video and identify as one. Keep putting content it's awesome 🤙🏻
Your content is gold ❤
Great!
Outstanding.
I worked military and private sector. I would suggest having a weapon light for sure. But for pistols I like to keep it bare bones and attach the light as needed. When you start adding gear to your pistol you limit its biggest advantages which is speed and concealable.
i dont see how speed is affected by adding a wml, even concealability. i ccw a glock 17 with light everyday and its equally as concealed as without the light.
We’ve found handguns with WMLs to be even more concealable due to the “Keel” effect. Phlster does a great job explaining this:
ua-cam.com/video/_wyoLTCWEeo/v-deo.html
@@dirty-civilian I will check the video out. But I think weapon mounted lights and attachments in general is total preference for pistols specifically.
I prefer nothing on my pistol and carry a light I can mount to it if needed as a backup to my main flashlight.
For home defense you can buy lights that attach to the outlets with a battery backup and you can place mirrors to check specific corners and odd angles. This largely eliminates the need for a flashlight in the home unless you go outside (which I wouldn't suggest in a home invasion scenario)
Ultimately I see nothing wrong either way as long as you train and prepare accordingly.
@@MetaGuideMedia Which handheld light do you use that attaches to your handgun?
@@dirty-civilian I carry 2 lights. One is an olight wml. The other is a stream light wedge.
Love the atf joke at the beginning
I'm getting a T-Rex vibe, and that's a good thing.
You need a handheld also. Don’t want to be flagging innocent people because not only is it morally reprehensible, it’s also a form of assault
What about exposing your position by turning on the light?
I am 100% agree with you, but my father have that point of view that makes me think about it.
very helpful vid
My dads friend gave us his Vector Optics green laser with white light combo, can it be used on a real gun, cant remember if he got it for airsoft, couldnt find anything about it besides that it is a very good brand, and when I used it it shone far, hope I can get into guns, once I have my ID I wanna try getting the competency certificate and try to get a gun(Im only 16 soon but they say you can get a gun with a good enough reason, there are gunshops and sports clubs near me, hope it is still possible, they raised the age from 18 to 21 in South Africa).
Great video, didnt think they would be this useful
You may call them "Weapon Mounted Lights" but i call them "Weapons of Mass Luminosity"
The only weapon I don’t carry a WML on is my CC pistol. My reason is more about ND’ing the light than anything. Three of my other pistols have them though
Like from Brazil
Based