Moral of the story is surviving doesn’t mean you won. War doesn’t have winners. Peta was most concerned that the capital would change him, he got brainwashed into hating the person he loved. Katniss wanted to save her sister and she died anyway.
@@edit9224 I would say go to Tom and obey and 911’s response of killing a bunch of us people who had nothing to do with it are much better. Examples of humans vilifying others. Our shows are mimicking our lives recognize and learn
Peeta has been the realist throughout and most honest character. He truly loved her and wanted what was best for her and her family. He's always been 💯
It would be "realest" or, technically, "the most real". I'm just saying because saying he's "the realist" is literally saying something different than I think what you intended. A realist is a type of person, or describes someone's perspective of things, like saying they're "a realistic person" - where being "the most real" or "the realest" has implications about his character and choices. I know no one asked....just saw an opportunity for growth!
@@turntsnaco824 haha, thank you. I'm a writer who doesn't check her work hahaha. That's what I have editors like you for. Truly appreciated. I'll fix it.
I feel like he would lean more toward being an optimist than a realist, but he did have a pretty realistic viewpoint on this a lot of the time so I see why you say that.
He killed her sister! Ain't no coming back from that. Nobody made anyone do anything. They had a choice to follow Katniss. Why yall always stay on the female main character? Katniss was a 17yr old girl. She did not choose ANY of this. Gale Chose. Katniss told him he was going too far. She has EVERY right to take it personally. Everything she did was for her sister. She had zero say so in when and where those cameras would be used. Coin sent Prim there on purpose. Gale was okay with killing all those capital kids. That's not cool in any way. That is being like snow sending kids to die in the games.
Again, using the same rhetoric: Gale is barely an adult. He was *physically* there to watch the firebombing of his district and everything he knew. He was always more action forward on how the system made him feel. He got whipped for the cause of saving people. Unfortunately, he took the same mentality of capitol people being different from district people which is FAIR in their case. Its hard to sympathize with the people who take joy in watching your friends die, watching kids die, and still using them afterwards (ie. finnick. I was DISGUSTED with the capitol folks after that revelation). I mean how many time do you think district people have wished the capitol would be put in the games to see how *horrid* and *inhumane* the games are? So dropping a bomb on a bunch of capitol people wasnt hurting him- because theyre the same people who did that to his district. Coin is the villain here, she keeps taking people who have trauma and *anger* and using them to push her agenda. This can also be seen during the 'symbolic games' vote. She asked *victors* because they are the people who went through it and lost the most (there were 41 victors alive at the end of catching fire and ONLY 7 lived to see the end of war because they were hit by both sides- capitol and district- for playing the game at staying alive). She asked victors because theyve probably been cursing out the capitol in a different way that their families for years. She asked victors so that their choice would be validated as *righteous* and she can hide the blame behind them. Had she asked other people (normal civilians from the districts) ,90% probably wouldve voted "no! are you crazy!?"; but thats exactly why she asked victors. who are all damaged by the games. Johanna isnt evil, but lost her entire family and went into the games twice- shes pissed. She literally yelled it during catching fire about setting fire to Snow's mansion- not caring for anyone there. She cant really be faulted with all she went through- or more, you can understand. Finnick isnt that type of person, but he also lost so much: Mags, (probably some family given that they say mags raised him), his wife and best friend (while they were tortured in the capitol), and lets not forget he was the youngest victor and prostituted for 10 years while having to mentor. He probably wouldve voted no, like Annie said, but does that make Johanna a bad person? No, people are different. Theyre both understandable. Its the same with Katniss and Gale. Also, Gale wasnt trying to kill Prim. Would Katniss have reacted the same if Prim wasnt there? Would you? (as implied by your comment and most people bringing up Prim, the answer would be no) Is that fair? As you said *Coin* sent Prim there on purpose. Gale loved Prim like his family. It hurt him that she died. And as the guys pointed out, Gale was there. He probably didnt know this plan was *Actually* going to go through. He didnt know they were going to gather the capitol people all in one place - that announcement was made when they just got out the sewers fighting mutts. Be so fr. And why did no one jump of Beetee? If you view Gale this way, you should jump on Beetee's character given that he's an actual, *full grown, mentally developed, adult.* Anyways, I'm so tired of people not seeing the nuance here. Coin is the mastermind, she used and pushed and manipulated the trauma of district citizens and victors to try to get her way. Had she not been there, I doubt Gale wouldve continued thinking about these plans (Remember she had meeting with him off screen too, most likely having summoned him). Additionaally, he didnt make the thing or press the trigger. He had ideas. He didnt drop the bomb (much like Dean Highbottom coming up with the HG idea but Snow's father being the one to press the trigger. yet who did the blame go to?). I'm not saying Gale was right. War is ugly and cruel. And this was unnecessary, but he's still mentally an adolesent, he was traumatized in a way even Katniss wasn't, he was also used. Katniss' goal was Prim, Gale wanted justice (even if it wasnt the right way). If Katniss didnt have Prim as her objective, she may have turned out different as well. I rest my case.
@@kathy8281 no, but it was his brilliant idea to do the 2 tier bombing & his overall view that even ppl mopping the floors had to die. Their moral compasses weren’t aligned. Katniss and Gale aren’t the same.
@@Taewills Hey Im not saying he was right. Im just saying people judge him too harshly without thinking behind the surface level. And they don't judge other characters the same way. They only see "He killed prim" or "he came up with the idea" instead of any nuance. Cmon, there were more sensible *adults* around who shouldve stepped up and Coin merely pushed it continiously- she didnt even care if Gale died in that bombing. Again: he saw his district and people die before his eyes and felt personally responsible (survivals guilt...cmon 950 out of 10,000). That is a trauma even the protagonist doesnt have. And again, I bet someone living in the districts viewed capitol people in *disgust*. Peeta and Katniss hinted at this during the celebration of their victory tour where they felt disgusted by the fact capitol citizens were gouging on food and throwing it back up while district kids were starving. Gale just felt an amplified version of that and it set fire in his soul. (Also, Katniss and Peeta had the benifit of actually getting to know some *decent* capitolites whereas Gale didnt- we see this when Gale questions why Katniss feels pity for her capitol stylists despite their job having been to dress her up for a deathmatch and *enjoy it*) I bet if he never watched his district get firebombed like that, he wouldnt have gone as far as he did. He was wrong, big time, Im not denying that. Im more talking about readers/viewers judgments being very black and white (ie. "Gale is a horrible person") in a very gray story. ^^ (And yes, I read the books years ago and reread ; I am hyperfixated on the HG series and Gale isnt even one of my favorites). I just want people to expand their thinking :)
To also put Gale betrayal into perspective, the only reason why Katniss was in the games was to spare her sister. She volunteered for Prim because she knew that she would never make it in the arena and Prim was the only functioning member of her family left. Gale promised Katniss that he would always take care of her family and then ended up being the reason for Prim’s death. Katniss went through all of that trauma to spare her sister and in the end, it still wasn’t enough to save her and it was her childhood best friend’s invention that ended her life. There definitely wasn’t any coming back for Gale after that.
I feel why katnis cant forgive him. On a bigger picture, he effectively ended the war and didnt go ahead with the plan with the knowledge that her sister would die.
@@crystalnguyen5023 still a horrible plan. The thought that luring more people in with a two tiered plan is disgusting. Even if he didn’t invent the bomb. That thought process is his alone.
lol dang y’all really love Gale. He was worse in the books and justified the use of the bombs without apologizing for Prims death. The movie softened his character. Anyway, in the book, Katniss was never interested in Gale.
Gale only saw the occupation and destruction of 12. To him this is strictly war. He has never met anyone in the other districts, he just knows they were silent when it was his people at the barrel of a gun. Katniss though, she had to tour every district and look people in the eye after killing a member of their community and being celebrated for it. Her perspective is way more nuanced. But yeah, to Gale this is a revolutionary war. Of course he doesn't gaf if he's killing, as long as its them and not him.
Katniss made a good comparison in the book. She said that she didn’t need Gale's fire (I assume because she is fire herself) but she needed Peeta's gentle warmth. So the boy with the bread won in the end.
You’re so right on katniss needing peeta for his gentleness and warmth. Also, I just want to point out from an astrology/element standpoint, Katniss is actually born on May 8 so she’s actually a Taurus and the element for Taurus people is earth. She’s more of an earthy girl than a fire girl. I think she’s only seen as fire, because how she was presented to the capital people during the hunger games, quarter quell parades and tribute interview where her outfits burst into flamess. I feel like if Suzanne Collins head given Gale a birthday, I feel like he would’ve been either a fire sign (Aries, Leo, Sagittarius) or had fire in his big three (Sun, Moon, Rising) because Katniss does have a fire aspect to herself, but she only let it be seen when she or someone she loves being targeted and threatened. I feel like Gale has a more destructive type of fire. He don’t care who gets hurt as long as he can get revenge.
Gale was radicalized. He went from "we can't leave innocent people behind and escape" to, "F anyone that doesn't believe what I believe. They all deserve to die." They don't show it as much in the movies, but he trains hard as a soldier and he's tight with Coin BEFORE Katniss comes around. All he cares about is destroying his enemy by any means necessary. Same as Snow. Y'all need to watch the prequel for real. Finally, he didn't come to see her at the hospital after Prim died because he KNEW that the double bomb was his idea. There's a reason why killing medics and bombing hospitals is a war crime; one he was willing to commit. He knew he was wrong and that "I don't know" was the most cowardly thing he ever said. He knew.
@@pyotrvoitsekhovski9402 Gale is the one who engineered the double bomb strategy to kill medics that would come to help. He wanted it to be used against the districts that didn't align with the revolution. At one point (halfway through the book i think) he explains the design to Katniss and she is horrified, because he doesn't care about hurting innocents. Gale didn't know Coin would use it for her own means but ultimately his radicalization and desensitized mindset led to Prims death
Gale didn’t kill prim. Coin did. Gale had no idea she was going to be on the front lines. Prim was only 13, she wasn’t old enough to be there. Coin gave orders for her to be there bc she wanted to punish Katnis for going up against her. She also wanted her to believe Snow did it so she could manipulate her into wanting another Hunger Games, so she could be the next dictator. The movies made Gale look worse on purpose. The books go into more detail. Even in Mocking Jay part 1, he never called Peeta a coward. The biggest reason why Katnis chose Peeta was because she was already vengeful and her and Gale have always been too much alike, she needed to be around Peeta because she he was always seeing the good in everything, despite the evil around them.
@@deliriaaragon7743 "The movies made him look worse on purpose," yeah, no. Being willing to bomb the medics running into battle to save lives, _that_ was what made him look bad. The movies literally make up bullshit like him being whipped for doing something brave. He was whipped for unrelated, non heroic nonsense.
Listen, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your argument that Katniss and Peeta are just as bad as Gale because I think you missed a SUPER important detail - he was the one who designed the double bomb!! He purposefully made it KNOWING it would take out the medics, healers, etc. ... He just thought it would be Snow's medics and that justified it in his mind because they were all the enemy, even the op healers. .... Katniss never killed when not in defense and Peeta was basically Bucky (he was Winter Soldiered by Snow) and brainwashed. Meanwhile Gale over here thinking it's cool to blow up op mines and bury civilians alive, and designing a ruthlessly evil bomb, etc, and y'all are like "he made a small mistake" lmao. No! Gale lost his way. The bromance is too real w Gale hahaha, it's cool, he is a great character, but come on 😂❤
they NEVER talk about it in the movie so anyone who never read the books couldn't possibly know that. in the books he flat out admits he was the one who did it but in the movie he just says "I don't know" Like he's just falling in line and doing what they say.
@@katielee7364 they DO talk about it in the movie when he’s discussing the second bomb plan with Beetee. Katniss tells them the plan sounds like there are no limits to the evils ppl can do to one another, and Gale shoots back with Snow never had any limitations. You can see them watch that scene at 3:40. Not to mention the scene where Katniss confronts him about his initial plan to collapse the Nut.
I was hoping someone pointed this out, or I was going to do it myself. Katniss has that main-character thing going on, so you assume she had more power than she did. She was a pawn, a show pony to Coin. The only time Katniss got what she wanted was when she had a huge bargaining chip and Coin was willing to let it slide. Or when it was something she could run off and do by herself. She did argue against the bombings, but lost the fight. But she still came along to do her best with the situation she was given, and she was the reason they allowed people to surrender. Nothing she did was even comparable to Gale engineering a double bomb specifically meant to wipe out any medics or loved ones who ran to help the injured. That double bomb literally looked like something crafted by an evil Snow. Gale specifically planned out ways to kill as many people as humanly possible. While Katniss could only be called selfish or narrow minded for focusing on saving the ones she loves most. Gale’s entire arc was symbolic of “how far is too far” and “do the ends justify the means”. The way good people can be corrupted by war and do evil things because it’s “worth it” if it ends the war, or because “they’d do the same thing.”
@@KellyCarter-xz3nnin the book Katniss talks about how she knows what it’s like to take a life and how it does stay with you. It isn’t good to justify murder for your own cause. Gale was using his knowledge with snares and applying that to trapping actual human beings. His idea with the nut in district 2 is quite telling. He wanted to attack the mountains and cause an avalanche that would essentially trap them all inside and they would all die. Katniss says they should all be given a chance to surrender, but Gale thinks more about military advantage and that them dying means nothing to him and would help the rebels.
Y’all have to watch through that scene again with no talking. Katniss was a 17 yr old figure for the revolution but they weren’t about to let her tell them not to bomb the mines. In fact, her speaking up is the reason they allowed people to surrender in the first place. And then Boggs backed her up. So you can’t blame the bombing strategy of district 2 on Katniss. And say she didn’t speak up because she did - multiple times actually.
Absolutely everything Katniss did, she did to save Prim, but Prim was always doomed by the narrative. It's a story about war, and war ends in tragedy. The very first 2 sentences of the first book are Katniss thinking: "When I wake up, the other side of the bed is cold. My fingers stretch out, seeking Prim’s warmth but finding only the rough canvas cover of the mattress." She reaches for Prim and Prim is already gone. A really chilling way to start the story, in hindsight.
@@knitwitchpgh I love her dialogue. She understands what motivates people and how far people will go to achieve their desires, and the way people discuss these concepts in the books and movies are really well done. While I hate Mockingjay pt. 1 and the majority of the Mockingjay book, the last 50 pages of the book and hour of pt. 2 are seriously some of the best writing I have seen written.
Adison, I loved how you sid that Katniss deserved her peace at the end. You have to understand that Katniss was put through one trauma after the other. That is the reason she had nightmares after the first games. All the victors were traumatized and then used by everyone. The books actually show you all the red flags of Gale losing his way.
@@pyotrvoitsekhovski9402morally consistent is not the same as morally correct. He is consistent about not caring about killing people unless it's the people he loves.
Katniss’s thoughts when Coin announces the Hunger Games for the Capitol: “Was it like this then? 75 years or so ago? Did a group of people sit around and cast their votes on initiating the Hunger Games? Was there dissent? Did someone make a case for mercy that was beaten down by the calls for the deaths of the districts children? The scent of Snows rose curls up into my nose, down into my throat, squeezing it tight with despair. All those people I loved, dead and we are discussing the next Hunger Games in an attempt to avoid wasting life. Nothing has changed. Nothing will ever change now.”
I feel like Katniss and Peeta CAN walk off scott-free. They were a pawn to their circumstances…Gale CHOSE to make that bomb Gale GAVE them the idea of the double bombing and broadcasting, Gale had NO PROBLEM bombing children and seeing them as just casualties while at war for the greater good…Gale became a terrible person in the end. Peeta and his romance with Katniss was DESTROYED by Snow and Katniss understood that that wasn’t his fault, so for her to want to fix that and be with him its only right to me in my opinion.
The thing with the end, 53:00 and coin, she was egotistical like snow. She thought katniss wanted revenge for everything, to end snow. She never thought katniss was smart or would ever catch on. She underestimated her just like snow.
So bombing the capitol was Gale’s idea. He brought it to Coin and he helped make the bombs that were used. That’s why Katniss knew he was in on it. Gale lost Katniss but he lost the mom and sister too. He was friends with the family before Prim was born.
Actually, in the books, it says they didn't start to get to know each other until her dad died at 11. Both of their dad's died in the mining accident and they ran into each other when hunting and eventually, became friends/ hunting partners. So they didn't really "know" each other before Prim was born.
I think they missed a big thing about Katniss’ character (which I can’t completely blame them for bc the books go into better detail on how she thinks). Katniss loves fiercely and deeply. She loves the people around her, even the people in the Capitol because she sees them as people. She never wanted a war and she blamed herself over and over again for all the death and destruction that came from her act of love. She loved Peeta so much that she wasn’t even willing to kill him when he was literally already bleeding to death (in the books the scene with the berries is especially important for her characterization because Peeta is literally already dying). She cries and runs and tries her hardest to protect people but she can’t and it hurts her more than anything else. When she hears about Gale’s plans with the bombs? She immediately tells him that it’s a bad idea and will kill innocent people. She straight up tells him that the reason she gets that is because SHE has had to kill innocent people. She was never going to pick Gale for a multitude of reasons but one of the main ones is that he didn’t understand her. Even when she hurt Peeta he understood it wasn’t her fault that she lied to him bc she was just trying to save them. Gale always brushed off her feelings. He pressured her and manipulated her despite how visibly and verbally confused and conflicted she was about her feelings. Katniss loves fiercely but she doesn’t know a thing about her own feelings which is a big part of her character. She had to push down her emotions after her father died and hasn’t learned how to deal with them since. Peeta always represented hope for her and even from the beginning he’d been trying anyway he could to keep her alive. When he threw that bread to her he literally saved her life. He gave her hope. (He purposely burned the bread to give to her despite knowing that fucking it up would get him hit). Katniss (and Peeta) never absolved herself of the things she did, she learned to live with them. Gale did the one thing that Katniss could never forgive him for and cost her the person she loved the most in the world. In the book he literally doesn’t apologize to her. He says something along the lines of “Protecting Prim was the only thing i had going for me.” He never took her feelings into consideration and constantly expected for her to repay his kindness with her love. Gale was NEVER an option and it’s even more clear later in the first book. By having any involvement in Prim’s death he sacrificed his chances of even being in her life at all. She never even blamed him for what happened, she just knew it would always be in the back of her mind and he KNEW that. Gale is a good example of what radicalization does to people. He stopped seeing the humanity in those he saw as enemies even if they were civilians. He was so pro 13 because they were anti capital that he didn’t realize that 13 was JUST LIKE the Capitol. He is a product of his environment but his actions are all his own. I’ve seen people try and defend his actions but an explanation is not an excuse and the fact that Katniss EXPLICITLY told him it was a bad idea and he ignored her because he was so war oriented is what lead to the worst thing he could EVER do in terms of keeping her in his life. All of the characters in the hunger games are 3 dimensional people with their own struggles and motivations.
Honestly I never liked Gale since the first book. But the delayed explosion targeting innocents was the worst. He got consumed by revenge and like Katniss says in the book she didn’t need his fire but Petra’s calm. I hope since you guys just did the whole series, also do the prequel about Snow
I like the movies but they missed a huge metaphor that exists in the book to explain the difference between Gale and Peeta and Katniss's choice. Peeta, in the books, is heavily associated with dandelions. Dandelions in our world have the meaning of hope, growth and healing. And Peeta represents all three to Katniss. After Peeta gave Katniss the bread, Katniss saw a dandelion at school. Dandelions are not only eatable, but seeing the flower is what gave Katniss the idea to go into the woods to hunt and forage. So that association is made multiple times over the series. Gale on the other hand is shown in his name. Gales are strong willful winds, and Hawthornes are trees that may produce edible fruit, you have to avoid 1-3 inch thrones to collect the fruit. These two descriptions follow their characters in Mockingjay. Even when hacked, Peeta is hopeful and striving for peace, whereas Gale quickly finds a path of vengeance for the destruction of district 12, this ends with the quote in the epilogue "That what I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that."
This movie, this series, was and is perfection. The movies are only 1/4 as amazing as the books. The books handle and cover ptsd, depression, and trauma so well. Its so moving. Susan Collins is a great writer. I still cry every single time i read the books and watch the movies
Katniss never wanted a serious relationship because of the world they lived in. Do you honestly think she wanted kids to offer them to the games? Peeta was the first boy she ever kissed. In the second movie when Gale kissed her and said he had to do it once. Katniss had it in her mind to die. Peeta would die for her to live because he loves her. That's why his mom said she would win.
It was hard to imagine anyone being worse than President Snow at first, but enter President Coin in the book AND movies of Mockingjay. Between Donald Sutherland and Julianne Moore, they both play amazing villains. I'm kind of in the same mindset of a lot of the fandom that Gale is partially to blame for what happened to Primrose, since he came up with the idea for the firebombs that got dropped on the crowd. And it's all so heartbreaking when Katniss returns to 12 and starts shouting at the top of her lungs at the cat after Primrose's death, then fully broke down in tears, since she never got to properly grieve. I love the ending when we see Katniss and Peeta with their kids.
My dudes, I just stumbled upon your channel for the first time, and I'm so glad I did because y'all have this unique balance of being both delightfully entertaining and deeply insightful. There are some things you said throughout this video that'll stick with me for the rest of my life when watching The Hunger Games series. Now every time I watch the scene where Katniss kills Coin instead of Snow, all I am going to think about from now on, is how Coin's soul didn't even have a chance to leave her body and is now forever stuck in Katniss's Arrow. 😂 I also love how you do a discussion at the end to discuss your opinions and analyze the scenes and themes of the film. You are both 100% right with your beliefs about coin and her shady ways. There's actually a lot of hints and symbolism and parallels throughout the films and the books that reveal coin to just be another version of snow. Except that she is even more dangerous then Snow's overt and obvious evil that he shows to the world and uses as a tool for others to fear and be controlled by him. Due to how Coin hides her evil behind a veil of false goodness and denial over who she really is. It was very intentional on Suzanne Collins part to name her character coin because her name is supposed to metaphorically represent how she and snow are two sides to the same coin. It is very clear from the evidence we're given that she was definitely without a doubt the one responsible for that last bombing that killed Prim and all of those others innocent civilians. On one final note I got to say that I have been noticing this clear pattern when it comes to the Hunger Games franchise, regarding how it seems like guys for the most part are more team Gale than team Peta but girls for the most part are more team Peta than team Gale. Which I find so intriguing and interesting because if you watch enough content of different men and women discussing the characters, the correlation between men for the most part being team Gale and women for the most part being team Peta, become so obvious and sticks out so much that it can't be ignored - even if you try to ignore it. With that being said, my opinions on Gale are not that he is too real, but that he is someone who is far too fake while pretending to be real and he's even convinced himself and others that he is a real one. Even though he is a fake hateful hypocritical man, who I personally can't stand lol. You guys however are very real and very hilarious and entertaining to watch as well as very deep and intellectual with your input. Thank you for the video. I look forward to watching more of your movie reviews/content.
Okay so, Peeta always cared about Katniss' happiness and if she were to choose Gale over him, he would've been respectful and even happy for her. Gale was always acting like a wounded puppy and guilt-tripping Katniss. Also, Gale helped create the bomb that killed Prim. He knew there were going to be innocent people there, and he still put the plan in motion. At that point Gale was so far gone that he said because Snow had no limits then they shouldn't so he literally became the same thing he was against. Peeta was brainwashed when he killed that person and Katniss only killed people to survive in the games or Coin. So, not the same thing. And no, it wasn't just for Katniss, it was against the rebels as a whole and anyone associated with the Mockingjay so he was still under mind control when he killed the person and even felt remorse after whereas Gale didn't care about killing innocent civilians.
Poor Jellybean. If you go back to the beginning where Gale is talking strategy with another soldier, their plan matches exactly what happened. People miss it bc its such a quick throw away line.
Honestly wild take to think that Katniss would have picked Gale if he didn't mess up. The biggest difference between them was that Gale wanted Katniss to choose him and Peeta only wanted her to be happy and safe regardless of who she chose. That says a lot. Also don't know how you guys are so set on trying to justify Gale killing civilians. He believed that just because they were from the capitol, they deserved to die!!!!! I don't see how that is okay. Katniss only ever killed in self-defense, same as Peeta who was exactly like Bucky and completely brainwashed. And you have to understand that EVRYTHING that Katniss ever did since the beginning was FOR PRIM. The way you're trying to make Katniss out to be a bad guy as well is honestly so fucking weird to me.
I think I feel pity more than anything for Katniss. She had to try to care for her family after her dad died, volunteered to save Prim and had to suffer the hunger games. PTSD, mentally abused by Snow - and she really just wanted to die in the second movie and I think that is why she felt so betrayed when she was saved. Then she was thrust into another situation where she is just manipulated over and over- she never wanted to kill anyone. She wanted everyone else to be safe and was willing to sacrifice herself, but even her sacrifices were manipulated against her.
Gale made multiple mistakes. He was insensitive about the survivors of the hunger games, made excuses about reasons why he didn't volunteer, got Prim killed.
Gale was good with that plan the first time they did it with the districts that were still with the capitol and as Katniss said with that thinking you can kill anyone - that is why she knew Coin did it just like Gale was good with the first time - Morally I don't think she could have been with him - Peeta (outside of the brainwashing) still had a moral compass. You also have to remember Katniss was only 17 made into something she did not want from the start. She became a symbol for the rebels by being her true self - strong and compassionate - she never wanted power or adulation
Guys, we saw Gail designed this in the movie and explain how this was gonna happen. This was his plan he just wasn’t expecting prim to be one of the Medics
Truthfully Gales mistake cost him Prim and Katniss. Gale didn't know when the bombs were going to be dropped. The romance is in the movie only. People don't like Gale, because he was focased on romance. Katniss was focused on surviving. Katniss had no interest in being involved with any of it. She was a teenager trying to save her baby sister. Then she was trying to save Peeta, and Gale. She wanted to protect the people she loved. She was pressed into service, because it was the only way to save them. Yes, she caused people their lives, but she was not asking any of their relatives to be in a relationship with her. That is the difference between her and Gale. I don't dislike Gale just because he wanted her to love him. After the games their was never going to be a them. Just because your head knows something, doesn't mean your heart does. Peeta was programed to kill Katness. Anyone between him and that, is someone to be defeated. His mind saw opportunity and reacted. He should not have been out there, but we know what that was about. Katniss had no way of knowing the plane was going to land on the hospital if she shot it, but it definitely would have if she didn't. They all have personal demons to work out, Hunger Games are no picnic, and war is not preety or perfect. Weather there is healing after war is a choice that both sides have to make. Sometime people can, and sometimes they don't. War is not a new thin, and many make the hard choice to get along afterwards. That requires continual good faith moves from both sides. That has to be done in word and deed.
I laughed out loud at Boggs only being able to do pull ups. Gale getting caught is different in the books and the movie version is just awkward. They were Snow's men. But Gale does talk about the double-bomb (allowing rescuers to come in) earlier in the movie and Katniss and him fought about whether killing was personal. I think he knew he f'ed up at the end. What were the final Big Daddy levels for Peeta and Gale? Did Gale lose any percentage for killing Prim?
The fact that the capitol made Peeta’s worst fear happend, he said it in the first movie that if he died he could only hope to be him self and not one of their creations 😢😢
This series is so good and it’s way less of a romance than how it’s perceived. The underlying themes and narratives are so relevant and well done, I never get tired of these movies. Such a unique and interesting take.
Katniss didn't have a choice in any of her situations. They just used her as a pawn and forced her to perform for the cameras. Gale 100% had a choice whether or not to bomb innocent children, women, and medics. He proposed the idea, so the blood is literally on his hands. The bombs were even disguised as "gifts" which makes it more sick. It's the most horrible war crime imo, harming people who are just want to keep their familes safe and evacuate. The author was spot on in reflecting what happens irl war with the books.
I watched your guys whole series review of the hunger games trilogy and the one thing you need to know is that y’all think that gale and Katniss were gonna end up together? No it was always going to be Peeta she’s always going to choose Peeta, and if you read the books, you’ll get more insight into the story but Gale is that male friend of yours especially as a woman who you think that he thinks of you as just a friend, but then a few years later he starts to reveal complicated feelings for you. Katniss was just trying to keep her mother, sister & Peeta alive. Gale is over here like when a guy asks you out in the middle of class on a piece of paper and it’s like “will you be my girlfriend check yes or no”. Gale throughout this entire series was being selfish & trying to appear wounded so that Katniss would choose him over Peeta. You guys mentioned that you think that she “couldn’t survive without Gale & she could live without Peeta”. That’s actually not true. Katniss could live without Gale , but she could not survive without Peeta, because Gale I feel like was trying to get her love for all the wrong reasons. Peeta has loved Katniss unconditionally since they were 5 years old. He’s done everything he can to help Katniss, even when it was absolutely killing him. After the first games when they came back & before the quarter Qualls announced, she told him her real feelings like “hey I don’t like you like that just yet I just did all those things to get us alive out of the hunger games.” Peeta saved her life by throwing her a loaf of bread when she was starving to death at 11 years old. Also, Katniss lost her dad who worked in the mines at when she was 11 years old. Her and her mom and sister were starving. Peeta throwing that loaf of bread to her was a wake up call for her. Before Katniss dad died, he would take Katniss hunting, swimming and foraging. After Papa Everdeen‘s death & Peeta throwing Katniss the loaf of bread, it made her realize that she knows of a way to provide for her family to keep them from starving to death, Which is why she hunts and why she’s so good at hunting because she’s been doing it since she was a little baby child. The mom was checked out for years because the love of her life got blown up. if Peeta died, Katniss would be the exact same as her mom she will fall into a deep depression and not recover.
I literally just commented saying that Gale spent 4 movies saying "circle yes if u like me" and seeing this comment gave me so much validation. Thank you
gale did know ab the bombs before they went off & it felt like a stab in the chest to see prim go, all this just for her to die and to see boggs and finn go made me so sad when the bombs went off i just knew in my gut snow wouldn’t do that. i honestly think he’d be smarter than to do that to his own ppl (not that he cared ab them) PROPS to katniss for being so smart she knew she could kill two birds with one stone at the end. a lot of ppl saw it coming but for some reason i didn’t. my jaw was on the FLOOR. great reaction 🫶🏻 also idk if y’all realized but katniss was ab to take Nightlock after she killed Coin but peeta stopped her
I can’t wait until you guys watch the Ballad of songbirds & snakes! This was another fun journey w y’all , y’all still remain my top funniest on YT ever since the beginning 🤣 love y’all
You guys were way too harsh on Katniss for kissing Peeta during the tunnel escape lol. He was having a severe PTSD episode and she needed to ground him to pull him out of it before he continued to spiral. A lot of his trauma in this book/movie is rooted in the fact that he knew the Capitol turned him into a monster and hated himself for it (hence why he was screaming "I'm a mutt"). If you remember in the first movie, he told Katniss on the rooftop that he didn't want the Games to change him. The tragedy of what Snow did to him is that his worst fear came true - they _did_ change him (think Bucky Barnes, who had a similar arc), and in that moment he was in total despair over it. Katniss getting on his level and kissing him was her way of reminding him who he really was, even underneath all the trauma and all the conditioning - the boy with the bread. The boy who loved her more than his own life. That scene is much deeper than what it seems on surface level - it's meant to show how the roles between them were reversed. Prior to this Peeta was always the one looking out for Katniss, and he was the one who calmed her and grounded her when she was scared. Here, Peeta was the one falling apart and Katniss had to return the favor by being his source of support instead. It's a subtle indication of how they were meant to be the endgame couple, that they were able to help each other heal in a way no one else could. Which leads me to my next point. Even if Gale was remorseful, Katniss would forever associate him with Prim's death. A relationship with that hanging between them would never be possible. Gale was Suzanne Collins' (the author) cautionary tale about how weaponizing your trauma and becoming an extremist for a cause, even a worthy one, will incur devastating consequences and destroy yourself, your relationships, and other people's lives. Katniss was tired of the cycle of violence and needed someone who could help her heal beyond it. There's a very powerful quote at the end of the book that explains why she ultimately chose Peeta in the end: "[W]hat I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that." What's doubly significant is that prior to the end of Mockingjay, Katniss never wanted children because she feared for their lives. In the book it took several years for her to come around to the idea, even after the regime change and she and Peeta had reconciled. Peeta was the only person who made her feel safe enough to believe that her children could be happy and have a better life. I don't think she would have felt safe enough with Gale to raise a family with him, even if they had gotten together in the end. I'd highly recommend reading the books because it's a lot clearer there how Gale's anger at the Capitol had radicalized him. He's very difficult to root for by the end of the series. Also, the books are in general fantastic and not too long to read. You'll get more context for everything that happened in the films. I'd recommend reading the prequel book too since that adds SO much to Snow's character and explains why he hated Katniss and Peeta so much.
I can remember being in shock/denial when Prim died. She got to live a few more years of life than she would have had Katniss not taken her place. In the end Katniss saved and freed more lives than she took. These books and movies are great for teens and adults.
They made it way clearer in the book, but Gale designed the double bomb trap, knowing the first round would attract support people who weren't even soldiers. The tactic worked, and hit Prim. When he says he doesnt know, its true, because he didnt order the attack or have anything to do with his tactic being used, but he KNOWS they used his weapon. He effectively designed the thing that killed Prim, despite the fact he would never use it against her - but Coin would. Gale is just as much a victim of his circumstances as Peeta or Katniss.
He literally said it was okay to kill the civilians of the Capitol. He was okay with it being used, just not against someone he cared about personally. That's messed up.
He is only remorseful because it affected Prim. If the only thing that makes you feel remorse is because it affected you personally. Let me tell you, I feel no remorse cutting of such a person from my life. The double bomb trap is such a disgusting idea, how can anyone get past it? Even if it hadn’t been deployed. That idea came from HIS brain, nobody brainwashed him.
You missed some scenes of the movie when it came to reasoning. Katniss asked to stop filming when she was in the hospital, but they filmed it without her knowing, but it wasn't the recording that killed people, it was Snow. He received a video of a drone patrolling and confirmed it there. So, filming or not, he was going to send the bomb there. Another point, which was not very clear in the film, but in the book explains: Gale was 50% to blame for the death of Prim and the other people in the Capitol, another 50% is Coin's. Why? Gale who created the bombs and had the idea of killing people in the capital and Coin sent Prim knowing this so she could just die and blame it on Snow and thus accept a new Hunger game with the children of the Capitol. Katniss never liked Gale romantically, but she knew he liked him and tried, however, they were always very different. And over time, he became angrier and ended up embracing war. Katniss noticed this. Gale had no mercy for anyone anymore.
Peeta was always kind and even with all the traumas, she fought to stay sane. But most importantly, he knew exactly what Katniss went through, because he went through it too. When Katniss chose Peeta, she says in the book that she would never choose Gale because Gale had a lot of anger inside him, he was more aggressive, and she couldn't have someone like that on her side. Katniss herself is more aggressive and all. But in the book she says that she was always Peeta, he was the only one who brought her peace, mePeeta was always kind and even with all the traumas, she fought to stay sane. But most importantly, he knew exactly what Katniss went through, because he went through it too. When Katniss chose Peeta, she says in the book that she would never choose Gale because Gale had a lot of anger inside him, he was more aggressive, and she couldn't have someone like that on her side. Katniss herself is more aggressive and all. But in the book she says that she was always Peeta, he was the only one who brought her peace, even though he was going through the same thing as her.
Exactly! Everyone has done something bad throughout this war so the fact that Katniss still chose to be with Peeta shows how much it did not matter how real or not real Gale was. 😅After the first games, Gale never stood a chance. Katniss is already fire. She does not need someone like Gale who is also fire. She needs someone more like Peeta. It just took a while for her to admit it to herself, since of course she was only 16/17 when entering the games. Also, all the people Katniss ends up killing, is never to justify anything. Peeta is the same way. They both have the same principles, on the other hand, Gale thinks it’s OK to kill people if for “the right reason.” That would never sit with Katniss.
When you said at 1:05:00 "It makes me wonder if you would have made it out of the games without turning into a bad guy", I think that's the first time i've ever heard someone voice that, but now that you've said it, I think its a big part of why I don't like Gale! I really don't think he would have. Thinking of the first games, In a world where he went into the games with some other girl from 12 and Katniss was left behind. Even though he hated the capitol, I think he is far too selfish and angry a character to not fully participate in the games. he probably would have hated and hunted the career pack as much as they hunted him. If it came down to it, I think Gale is the only one of the 3 who could have killed Rue. Not saying he definitely would have, but I could see it. Katniss really only killed in defense. I'm curious how Peeta would react if Katniss wasn't there for him to focus on, but I don't think he would be an aggressor. He'd probably have just died. There's tons of comments explaining Katniss's side, and Gale's wrongdoings, so I won't go into that. Thanks for the reactions!
That's how he would have been. When Katniss said she's just a hunter right before the first game, Gale says killing ool is no different and to give the Capitol a show.
The fire bombing of 12 fundamentally changed Gale IMO. It hardened him to the point where he became willing to do the evils he considered necessary for the cause. I find myself thinking he might not have been so willing to be so cold hearted if he didn't witness the ruthless murder of 9000+ people and wasn't carrying the weight of not being able help them. Y'all are very insightful, and that makes you enjoyable to watch.
Throughout the book, Gale was ALWAYS willing to go too far and deeply angry. He's been like that from that beginning, but after the bombing, he felt he was right no matter what
It’s sad how the whole revolution started from Katniss volunteering for her sister yet in the end Prim died! 😢 And yes we can’t entirely judge Gale but all the movies have been about playing games(prop videos, the actual hunger games)I think it’s the fact Gale had a choice! Do we really think Peeta would’ve bombed a bunch of kids?! Or Katniss!? Although the hospital was bombed, it wasnt her intentions for the planes to hit the hospital! We also have to look at the fact that she’s an 18 year old girl being pushed into a position of saving EVERYBODY!! We have to think what would we have done if we were her? Seriously! It’s easy to say what we would do in someone’s else’s position!!
The planes didn’t hit the hospital when she shot them down. I’m not sure if that’s what your comment implied, but just to let anyone reading this know, the hospital was already destroyed when they shot them down. The movie did a poor job showing the angles & clips this way. Many people think Katniss accidentally killed the people in the hospital, but she wouldn’t have been able to live with herself if that actually happened.
Its not about morals of the act of killing, its the fact that he was indirectly responsible for the death of the one person she did all of this for: PRIM. He promised her whatever happened, hed keep her family safe, and he broke that promise, willingly or not, its not something you can come back from.
Lmao that baby is not asian 💀 it's Jennifer Lawrences niece/nephew I forget which gender. That baby was the only one who wouldn't cry and could stay put for so long bc he/she already knew her.
Katniss never loved Gale how he loved Peeta, Katniss didn’t even want a family until she met Peeta.. she was young and Gale was all she knew but at the end she always showed that Peeta was her end game. Also about Gale, I understand he didn’t intend for Prim to be killed but I don’t think he cared too much, Katniss already didn’t love him before that but after his involvement she would never come back from that.
Katniss didn't wind up wanting kids because of Peta, she wanted kids because Pan Em had been defeated and she feels her offspring won't live under threat of violence
I recently discovered your page and I am definitely a fan. I subscribe to quite a few commentary/reaction pages and yours is my favorite. I appreciate the fact that you have in depth conversations about the movies/shows you watch. The dialogue and jokes between you, Brandon and Carianna have me cracking up all the time . I love the fact that you guys actually watch the movies and pause them to comment. Watching these reactions with ya'll makes me feel like I'm watching them with my cousins and my family. Thank you guys for giving me comfort on the days when I need to laugh and smile.
"I'm not saying she's Snow, but she might be rain." "I feel like she can't SURVIVE without Gale. I feel like she can't LIVE without Peeta." That's deep, yo.
Gale’s plan killed Prim. The plan Katniss argued with him about. Prim was helping the wounded regardless of their ‘side’ because she was a good medic, and she got blown up by Gale’s heartless plan. Could you ever even look at him again? Be honest. That’s a goodbye for me at minimum.
Because Gale watched his whole community get slaughtered and he absolutely has a side. While that was happening, Katniss and Peta were looking the other districts in the eye, feeling survivors guilt and all. They have completely different experiences. The Hunger Games Victor's vs Victim of a war crime.
So the books give some more detail on the Gale/bomb situation. In the movie you get Gale and Beetee talking about them, but in the books, they are actually designing them. The double bombing was Gale’s idea and design. Specifically made to target the kindness of those who would rush to aid and give assistance. Katniss was against it from the beginning and thought it was cruel. So yeah…Gale is the reason Prim died and he KNEW he could never be with Katniss from that moment. Katniss came to the conclusion earlier in the book, but that was what sealed the deal for her. Ain’t no coming back from that
Quote from the book explaining why she chooses peeta That what I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that. So after, when he whispers, "You love me. Real or not real?" I tell him, "Real.”
Coin was gunning for Prim because she was scared the people would choose Katniss as President. She aming for Katniss as well but she survived. All in all she is evil asf.
Just so you know, in the books Katniss and Gail DID have makeup/got all dressed up before they went out there. They didn’t stand out like the way the movie made it look
Coin killed Prim to get back at Katniss because she couldn't control Katniss. It's mentioned in the books that Prim was too young to be where she was. She would've had to have special approval to be on the front lines.
Fun fact the stylist that let them in is Snow's cousin! She made a lot of sacrifices when they were growing up just so they could have food and clothes and when he got on he turned his back on her.
Moral of the story is surviving doesn’t mean you won. War doesn’t have winners.
Peta was most concerned that the capital would change him, he got brainwashed into hating the person he loved.
Katniss wanted to save her sister and she died anyway.
Humans are the worst enemies to humanity. Humans are the villains to humanity. Just like Attack On Titans and The Hunger Games showed us
@@edit9224 I would say go to Tom and obey and 911’s response of killing a bunch of us people who had nothing to do with it are much better. Examples of humans vilifying others.
Our shows are mimicking our lives recognize and learn
Peeta *
@@yermum1396 yes, because without that extra E people clearly have no idea who I’m talking about 🙄
Peeta has been the realist throughout and most honest character. He truly loved her and wanted what was best for her and her family. He's always been 💯
It would be "realest" or, technically, "the most real". I'm just saying because saying he's "the realist" is literally saying something different than I think what you intended. A realist is a type of person, or describes someone's perspective of things, like saying they're "a realistic person" - where being "the most real" or "the realest" has implications about his character and choices. I know no one asked....just saw an opportunity for growth!
@@turntsnaco824 haha, thank you. I'm a writer who doesn't check her work hahaha. That's what I have editors like you for. Truly appreciated. I'll fix it.
@@turntsnaco824 eh, I think I'll keep it the same. Because he is the realistic one. Every time.
I feel like he would lean more toward being an optimist than a realist, but he did have a pretty realistic viewpoint on this a lot of the time so I see why you say that.
Peeta is no Gale
He killed her sister! Ain't no coming back from that. Nobody made anyone do anything. They had a choice to follow Katniss. Why yall always stay on the female main character? Katniss was a 17yr old girl. She did not choose ANY of this. Gale Chose. Katniss told him he was going too far. She has EVERY right to take it personally. Everything she did was for her sister. She had zero say so in when and where those cameras would be used. Coin sent Prim there on purpose. Gale was okay with killing all those capital kids. That's not cool in any way. That is being like snow sending kids to die in the games.
Again, using the same rhetoric: Gale is barely an adult. He was *physically* there to watch the firebombing of his district and everything he knew. He was always more action forward on how the system made him feel. He got whipped for the cause of saving people. Unfortunately, he took the same mentality of capitol people being different from district people which is FAIR in their case. Its hard to sympathize with the people who take joy in watching your friends die, watching kids die, and still using them afterwards (ie. finnick. I was DISGUSTED with the capitol folks after that revelation). I mean how many time do you think district people have wished the capitol would be put in the games to see how *horrid* and *inhumane* the games are? So dropping a bomb on a bunch of capitol people wasnt hurting him- because theyre the same people who did that to his district. Coin is the villain here, she keeps taking people who have trauma and *anger* and using them to push her agenda. This can also be seen during the 'symbolic games' vote. She asked *victors* because they are the people who went through it and lost the most (there were 41 victors alive at the end of catching fire and ONLY 7 lived to see the end of war because they were hit by both sides- capitol and district- for playing the game at staying alive). She asked victors because theyve probably been cursing out the capitol in a different way that their families for years. She asked victors so that their choice would be validated as *righteous* and she can hide the blame behind them. Had she asked other people (normal civilians from the districts) ,90% probably wouldve voted "no! are you crazy!?"; but thats exactly why she asked victors. who are all damaged by the games. Johanna isnt evil, but lost her entire family and went into the games twice- shes pissed. She literally yelled it during catching fire about setting fire to Snow's mansion- not caring for anyone there. She cant really be faulted with all she went through- or more, you can understand. Finnick isnt that type of person, but he also lost so much: Mags, (probably some family given that they say mags raised him), his wife and best friend (while they were tortured in the capitol), and lets not forget he was the youngest victor and prostituted for 10 years while having to mentor. He probably wouldve voted no, like Annie said, but does that make Johanna a bad person? No, people are different. Theyre both understandable. Its the same with Katniss and Gale. Also, Gale wasnt trying to kill Prim. Would Katniss have reacted the same if Prim wasnt there? Would you? (as implied by your comment and most people bringing up Prim, the answer would be no) Is that fair? As you said *Coin* sent Prim there on purpose. Gale loved Prim like his family. It hurt him that she died. And as the guys pointed out, Gale was there. He probably didnt know this plan was *Actually* going to go through. He didnt know they were going to gather the capitol people all in one place - that announcement was made when they just got out the sewers fighting mutts. Be so fr. And why did no one jump of Beetee? If you view Gale this way, you should jump on Beetee's character given that he's an actual, *full grown, mentally developed, adult.* Anyways, I'm so tired of people not seeing the nuance here. Coin is the mastermind, she used and pushed and manipulated the trauma of district citizens and victors to try to get her way. Had she not been there, I doubt Gale wouldve continued thinking about these plans (Remember she had meeting with him off screen too, most likely having summoned him). Additionaally, he didnt make the thing or press the trigger. He had ideas. He didnt drop the bomb (much like Dean Highbottom coming up with the HG idea but Snow's father being the one to press the trigger. yet who did the blame go to?). I'm not saying Gale was right. War is ugly and cruel. And this was unnecessary, but he's still mentally an adolesent, he was traumatized in a way even Katniss wasn't, he was also used. Katniss' goal was Prim, Gale wanted justice (even if it wasnt the right way). If Katniss didnt have Prim as her objective, she may have turned out different as well. I rest my case.
He didn't intend on killing her. And he didn't personally do it. Sad turn of events though 😢
@@kathy8281great analysis, Kathy.
-J from NJ
@@kathy8281 no, but it was his brilliant idea to do the 2 tier bombing & his overall view that even ppl mopping the floors had to die. Their moral compasses weren’t aligned. Katniss and Gale aren’t the same.
@@Taewills Hey Im not saying he was right. Im just saying people judge him too harshly without thinking behind the surface level. And they don't judge other characters the same way. They only see "He killed prim" or "he came up with the idea" instead of any nuance. Cmon, there were more sensible *adults* around who shouldve stepped up and Coin merely pushed it continiously- she didnt even care if Gale died in that bombing. Again: he saw his district and people die before his eyes and felt personally responsible (survivals guilt...cmon 950 out of 10,000). That is a trauma even the protagonist doesnt have. And again, I bet someone living in the districts viewed capitol people in *disgust*. Peeta and Katniss hinted at this during the celebration of their victory tour where they felt disgusted by the fact capitol citizens were gouging on food and throwing it back up while district kids were starving. Gale just felt an amplified version of that and it set fire in his soul. (Also, Katniss and Peeta had the benifit of actually getting to know some *decent* capitolites whereas Gale didnt- we see this when Gale questions why Katniss feels pity for her capitol stylists despite their job having been to dress her up for a deathmatch and *enjoy it*) I bet if he never watched his district get firebombed like that, he wouldnt have gone as far as he did.
He was wrong, big time, Im not denying that. Im more talking about readers/viewers judgments being very black and white (ie. "Gale is a horrible person") in a very gray story. ^^ (And yes, I read the books years ago and reread ; I am hyperfixated on the HG series and Gale isnt even one of my favorites). I just want people to expand their thinking :)
the fact that the whole series is based off of katniss volunteering in order to save her sister just for her to die in the end anyways was so crazy...
It goes to the moral of the story
Nobody wins in the war and violence
Both Katniss and Peeta still lost the things that were most important to them
Oof...such a good point
To also put Gale betrayal into perspective, the only reason why Katniss was in the games was to spare her sister. She volunteered for Prim because she knew that she would never make it in the arena and Prim was the only functioning member of her family left. Gale promised Katniss that he would always take care of her family and then ended up being the reason for Prim’s death. Katniss went through all of that trauma to spare her sister and in the end, it still wasn’t enough to save her and it was her childhood best friend’s invention that ended her life. There definitely wasn’t any coming back for Gale after that.
I feel why katnis cant forgive him. On a bigger picture, he effectively ended the war and didnt go ahead with the plan with the knowledge that her sister would die.
@@crystalnguyen5023 still a horrible plan. The thought that luring more people in with a two tiered plan is disgusting. Even if he didn’t invent the bomb. That thought process is his alone.
lol dang y’all really love Gale. He was worse in the books and justified the use of the bombs without apologizing for Prims death. The movie softened his character. Anyway, in the book, Katniss was never interested in Gale.
Gale only saw the occupation and destruction of 12. To him this is strictly war. He has never met anyone in the other districts, he just knows they were silent when it was his people at the barrel of a gun.
Katniss though, she had to tour every district and look people in the eye after killing a member of their community and being celebrated for it. Her perspective is way more nuanced.
But yeah, to Gale this is a revolutionary war. Of course he doesn't gaf if he's killing, as long as its them and not him.
Katniss made a good comparison in the book. She said that she didn’t need Gale's fire (I assume because she is fire herself) but she needed Peeta's gentle warmth. So the boy with the bread won in the end.
You’re so right on katniss needing peeta for his gentleness and warmth. Also, I just want to point out from an astrology/element standpoint, Katniss is actually born on May 8 so she’s actually a Taurus and the element for Taurus people is earth. She’s more of an earthy girl than a fire girl. I think she’s only seen as fire, because how she was presented to the capital people during the hunger games, quarter quell parades and tribute interview where her outfits burst into flamess. I feel like if Suzanne Collins head given Gale a birthday, I feel like he would’ve been either a fire sign (Aries, Leo, Sagittarius) or had fire in his big three (Sun, Moon, Rising) because Katniss does have a fire aspect to herself, but she only let it be seen when she or someone she loves being targeted and threatened. I feel like Gale has a more destructive type of fire. He don’t care who gets hurt as long as he can get revenge.
Gale was radicalized. He went from "we can't leave innocent people behind and escape" to, "F anyone that doesn't believe what I believe. They all deserve to die."
They don't show it as much in the movies, but he trains hard as a soldier and he's tight with Coin BEFORE Katniss comes around. All he cares about is destroying his enemy by any means necessary. Same as Snow. Y'all need to watch the prequel for real.
Finally, he didn't come to see her at the hospital after Prim died because he KNEW that the double bomb was his idea. There's a reason why killing medics and bombing hospitals is a war crime; one he was willing to commit. He knew he was wrong and that "I don't know" was the most cowardly thing he ever said. He knew.
This!
How did he know? There's no evidence of that at all
@@pyotrvoitsekhovski9402 Gale is the one who engineered the double bomb strategy to kill medics that would come to help. He wanted it to be used against the districts that didn't align with the revolution. At one point (halfway through the book i think) he explains the design to Katniss and she is horrified, because he doesn't care about hurting innocents. Gale didn't know Coin would use it for her own means but ultimately his radicalization and desensitized mindset led to Prims death
Gale didn’t kill prim. Coin did. Gale had no idea she was going to be on the front lines. Prim was only 13, she wasn’t old enough to be there. Coin gave orders for her to be there bc she wanted to punish Katnis for going up against her. She also wanted her to believe Snow did it so she could manipulate her into wanting another Hunger Games, so she could be the next dictator.
The movies made Gale look worse on purpose. The books go into more detail. Even in Mocking Jay part 1, he never called Peeta a coward.
The biggest reason why Katnis chose Peeta was because she was already vengeful and her and Gale have always been too much alike, she needed to be around Peeta because she he was always seeing the good in everything, despite the evil around them.
@@deliriaaragon7743 "The movies made him look worse on purpose," yeah, no. Being willing to bomb the medics running into battle to save lives, _that_ was what made him look bad.
The movies literally make up bullshit like him being whipped for doing something brave. He was whipped for unrelated, non heroic nonsense.
Listen, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your argument that Katniss and Peeta are just as bad as Gale because I think you missed a SUPER important detail - he was the one who designed the double bomb!! He purposefully made it KNOWING it would take out the medics, healers, etc. ... He just thought it would be Snow's medics and that justified it in his mind because they were all the enemy, even the op healers. .... Katniss never killed when not in defense and Peeta was basically Bucky (he was Winter Soldiered by Snow) and brainwashed. Meanwhile Gale over here thinking it's cool to blow up op mines and bury civilians alive, and designing a ruthlessly evil bomb, etc, and y'all are like "he made a small mistake" lmao. No! Gale lost his way. The bromance is too real w Gale hahaha, it's cool, he is a great character, but come on 😂❤
they NEVER talk about it in the movie so anyone who never read the books couldn't possibly know that.
in the books he flat out admits he was the one who did it but in the movie he just says "I don't know" Like he's just falling in line and doing what they say.
@@katielee7364 they DO talk about it in the movie when he’s discussing the second bomb plan with Beetee. Katniss tells them the plan sounds like there are no limits to the evils ppl can do to one another, and Gale shoots back with Snow never had any limitations. You can see them watch that scene at 3:40. Not to mention the scene where Katniss confronts him about his initial plan to collapse the Nut.
I was hoping someone pointed this out, or I was going to do it myself. Katniss has that main-character thing going on, so you assume she had more power than she did. She was a pawn, a show pony to Coin. The only time Katniss got what she wanted was when she had a huge bargaining chip and Coin was willing to let it slide. Or when it was something she could run off and do by herself. She did argue against the bombings, but lost the fight. But she still came along to do her best with the situation she was given, and she was the reason they allowed people to surrender. Nothing she did was even comparable to Gale engineering a double bomb specifically meant to wipe out any medics or loved ones who ran to help the injured. That double bomb literally looked like something crafted by an evil Snow. Gale specifically planned out ways to kill as many people as humanly possible. While Katniss could only be called selfish or narrow minded for focusing on saving the ones she loves most. Gale’s entire arc was symbolic of “how far is too far” and “do the ends justify the means”. The way good people can be corrupted by war and do evil things because it’s “worth it” if it ends the war, or because “they’d do the same thing.”
@@KellyCarter-xz3nnin the book Katniss talks about how she knows what it’s like to take a life and how it does stay with you. It isn’t good to justify murder for your own cause. Gale was using his knowledge with snares and applying that to trapping actual human beings. His idea with the nut in district 2 is quite telling. He wanted to attack the mountains and cause an avalanche that would essentially trap them all inside and they would all die. Katniss says they should all be given a chance to surrender, but Gale thinks more about military advantage and that them dying means nothing to him and would help the rebels.
@@katielee7364 Katniss overheard Beetee and Gale talk about the double bomb. Gale showed the way it would work. How did you miss that?
Y’all have to watch through that scene again with no talking. Katniss was a 17 yr old figure for the revolution but they weren’t about to let her tell them not to bomb the mines. In fact, her speaking up is the reason they allowed people to surrender in the first place. And then Boggs backed her up.
So you can’t blame the bombing strategy of district 2 on Katniss. And say she didn’t speak up because she did - multiple times actually.
Absolutely everything Katniss did, she did to save Prim, but Prim was always doomed by the narrative. It's a story about war, and war ends in tragedy. The very first 2 sentences of the first book are Katniss thinking: "When I wake up, the other side of the bed is cold. My fingers stretch out, seeking Prim’s warmth but finding only the rough canvas cover of the mattress." She reaches for Prim and Prim is already gone. A really chilling way to start the story, in hindsight.
I stand by susan collins is probably one of the best writers of YA and the 2000s
@@knitwitchpgh I love her dialogue. She understands what motivates people and how far people will go to achieve their desires, and the way people discuss these concepts in the books and movies are really well done. While I hate Mockingjay pt. 1 and the majority of the Mockingjay book, the last 50 pages of the book and hour of pt. 2 are seriously some of the best writing I have seen written.
Adison, I loved how you sid that Katniss deserved her peace at the end. You have to understand that Katniss was put through one trauma after the other. That is the reason she had nightmares after the first games. All the victors were traumatized and then used by everyone. The books actually show you all the red flags of Gale losing his way.
Not the HALO over Gale’s head, PLEASEEEE. 😭
Y’all definitely needed Carianna for this part. 😭
For real lmao. The worst take ever 😂😂
nah they're correct. Gale is one of the most morally consistent characters of the show.
@@pyotrvoitsekhovski9402 You have to be kidding
@@pyotrvoitsekhovski9402yeah, and those consistent morals were being willing to bomb Capitol children and rebel medics.
@@pyotrvoitsekhovski9402morally consistent is not the same as morally correct. He is consistent about not caring about killing people unless it's the people he loves.
Katniss’s thoughts when Coin announces the Hunger Games for the Capitol:
“Was it like this then? 75 years or so ago? Did a group of people sit around and cast their votes on initiating the Hunger Games? Was there dissent? Did someone make a case for mercy that was beaten down by the calls for the deaths of the districts children? The scent of Snows rose curls up into my nose, down into my throat, squeezing it tight with despair. All those people I loved, dead and we are discussing the next Hunger Games in an attempt to avoid wasting life. Nothing has changed. Nothing will ever change now.”
I feel like Katniss and Peeta CAN walk off scott-free. They were a pawn to their circumstances…Gale CHOSE to make that bomb Gale GAVE them the idea of the double bombing and broadcasting, Gale had NO PROBLEM bombing children and seeing them as just casualties while at war for the greater good…Gale became a terrible person in the end. Peeta and his romance with Katniss was DESTROYED by Snow and Katniss understood that that wasn’t his fault, so for her to want to fix that and be with him its only right to me in my opinion.
"I ain't saying she's Snow but...she's rain 😒" took me out lmao
“That’s a LONG walk.”
“Y’all can’t drop me off?”
💀
Typically in war you aren't supposed to kill medics. On either side
THIS! There are “collateral damages” in wars, sure, but killing medics would break all hell loose.
Based on the Geneva convention sure, but this seems like a post Geneva convention future.
Peeta killing the guy was not only Coins fault but Coins intention
The thing with the end, 53:00 and coin, she was egotistical like snow. She thought katniss wanted revenge for everything, to end snow. She never thought katniss was smart or would ever catch on. She underestimated her just like snow.
absolutely
Exactly!!!!!!!
"appreciate you, sister enunciation" Lmao
So bombing the capitol was Gale’s idea. He brought it to Coin and he helped make the bombs that were used. That’s why Katniss knew he was in on it. Gale lost Katniss but he lost the mom and sister too. He was friends with the family before Prim was born.
Actually, in the books, it says they didn't start to get to know each other until her dad died at 11. Both of their dad's died in the mining accident and they ran into each other when hunting and eventually, became friends/ hunting partners. So they didn't really "know" each other before Prim was born.
I think they missed a big thing about Katniss’ character (which I can’t completely blame them for bc the books go into better detail on how she thinks). Katniss loves fiercely and deeply. She loves the people around her, even the people in the Capitol because she sees them as people. She never wanted a war and she blamed herself over and over again for all the death and destruction that came from her act of love. She loved Peeta so much that she wasn’t even willing to kill him when he was literally already bleeding to death (in the books the scene with the berries is especially important for her characterization because Peeta is literally already dying). She cries and runs and tries her hardest to protect people but she can’t and it hurts her more than anything else. When she hears about Gale’s plans with the bombs? She immediately tells him that it’s a bad idea and will kill innocent people. She straight up tells him that the reason she gets that is because SHE has had to kill innocent people. She was never going to pick Gale for a multitude of reasons but one of the main ones is that he didn’t understand her. Even when she hurt Peeta he understood it wasn’t her fault that she lied to him bc she was just trying to save them. Gale always brushed off her feelings. He pressured her and manipulated her despite how visibly and verbally confused and conflicted she was about her feelings. Katniss loves fiercely but she doesn’t know a thing about her own feelings which is a big part of her character. She had to push down her emotions after her father died and hasn’t learned how to deal with them since. Peeta always represented hope for her and even from the beginning he’d been trying anyway he could to keep her alive. When he threw that bread to her he literally saved her life. He gave her hope. (He purposely burned the bread to give to her despite knowing that fucking it up would get him hit).
Katniss (and Peeta) never absolved herself of the things she did, she learned to live with them. Gale did the one thing that Katniss could never forgive him for and cost her the person she loved the most in the world. In the book he literally doesn’t apologize to her. He says something along the lines of “Protecting Prim was the only thing i had going for me.” He never took her feelings into consideration and constantly expected for her to repay his kindness with her love. Gale was NEVER an option and it’s even more clear later in the first book. By having any involvement in Prim’s death he sacrificed his chances of even being in her life at all. She never even blamed him for what happened, she just knew it would always be in the back of her mind and he KNEW that. Gale is a good example of what radicalization does to people. He stopped seeing the humanity in those he saw as enemies even if they were civilians. He was so pro 13 because they were anti capital that he didn’t realize that 13 was JUST LIKE the Capitol. He is a product of his environment but his actions are all his own. I’ve seen people try and defend his actions but an explanation is not an excuse and the fact that Katniss EXPLICITLY told him it was a bad idea and he ignored her because he was so war oriented is what lead to the worst thing he could EVER do in terms of keeping her in his life. All of the characters in the hunger games are 3 dimensional people with their own struggles and motivations.
Honestly I never liked Gale since the first book. But the delayed explosion targeting innocents was the worst. He got consumed by revenge and like Katniss says in the book she didn’t need his fire but Petra’s calm.
I hope since you guys just did the whole series, also do the prequel about Snow
the “you didn’t do the dishes” “you killed prim” had me dead i’m sorry 😭😭
I like the movies but they missed a huge metaphor that exists in the book to explain the difference between Gale and Peeta and Katniss's choice. Peeta, in the books, is heavily associated with dandelions. Dandelions in our world have the meaning of hope, growth and healing. And Peeta represents all three to Katniss. After Peeta gave Katniss the bread, Katniss saw a dandelion at school. Dandelions are not only eatable, but seeing the flower is what gave Katniss the idea to go into the woods to hunt and forage. So that association is made multiple times over the series. Gale on the other hand is shown in his name. Gales are strong willful winds, and Hawthornes are trees that may produce edible fruit, you have to avoid 1-3 inch thrones to collect the fruit. These two descriptions follow their characters in Mockingjay. Even when hacked, Peeta is hopeful and striving for peace, whereas Gale quickly finds a path of vengeance for the destruction of district 12, this ends with the quote in the epilogue "That what I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that."
god these books only get better every time
Gorgeous
Not the thumbnail with a halo over Gale's head, now I know you lyin 🤣.
This movie, this series, was and is perfection. The movies are only 1/4 as amazing as the books. The books handle and cover ptsd, depression, and trauma so well. Its so moving. Susan Collins is a great writer. I still cry every single time i read the books and watch the movies
Katniss never wanted a serious relationship because of the world they lived in. Do you honestly think she wanted kids to offer them to the games? Peeta was the first boy she ever kissed. In the second movie when Gale kissed her and said he had to do it once. Katniss had it in her mind to die. Peeta would die for her to live because he loves her. That's why his mom said she would win.
It was hard to imagine anyone being worse than President Snow at first, but enter President Coin in the book AND movies of Mockingjay. Between Donald Sutherland and Julianne Moore, they both play amazing villains. I'm kind of in the same mindset of a lot of the fandom that Gale is partially to blame for what happened to Primrose, since he came up with the idea for the firebombs that got dropped on the crowd. And it's all so heartbreaking when Katniss returns to 12 and starts shouting at the top of her lungs at the cat after Primrose's death, then fully broke down in tears, since she never got to properly grieve.
I love the ending when we see Katniss and Peeta with their kids.
The baby and toddler at the end are Jennifer Lawrence’s nephews! I remember thinking the same thing you guys did so I looked it up.
The bigger boy was Josh's Nephew . I remember him saying the child was obsessed with. 2hich is why was so playful in that scene . So sweet.
I was thinking to myself how they chose a baby that looks like her! That’s adorable
Yall hit the nail on the head with “No one wins. No one is coming out clean from war.”
My dudes, I just stumbled upon your channel for the first time, and I'm so glad I did because y'all have this unique balance of being both delightfully entertaining and deeply insightful. There are some things you said throughout this video that'll stick with me for the rest of my life when watching The Hunger Games series. Now every time I watch the scene where Katniss kills Coin instead of Snow, all I am going to think about from now on, is how Coin's soul didn't even have a chance to leave her body and is now forever stuck in Katniss's Arrow. 😂
I also love how you do a discussion at the end to discuss your opinions and analyze the scenes and themes of the film. You are both 100% right with your beliefs about coin and her shady ways. There's actually a lot of hints and symbolism and parallels throughout the films and the books that reveal coin to just be another version of snow. Except that she is even more dangerous then Snow's overt and obvious evil that he shows to the world and uses as a tool for others to fear and be controlled by him. Due to how Coin hides her evil behind a veil of false goodness and denial over who she really is. It was very intentional on Suzanne Collins part to name her character coin because her name is supposed to metaphorically represent how she and snow are two sides to the same coin. It is very clear from the evidence we're given that she was definitely without a doubt the one responsible for that last bombing that killed Prim and all of those others innocent civilians.
On one final note I got to say that I have been noticing this clear pattern when it comes to the Hunger Games franchise, regarding how it seems like guys for the most part are more team Gale than team Peta but girls for the most part are more team Peta than team Gale. Which I find so intriguing and interesting because if you watch enough content of different men and women discussing the characters, the correlation between men for the most part being team Gale and women for the most part being team Peta, become so obvious and sticks out so much that it can't be ignored - even if you try to ignore it. With that being said, my opinions on Gale are not that he is too real, but that he is someone who is far too fake while pretending to be real and he's even convinced himself and others that he is a real one. Even though he is a fake hateful hypocritical man, who I personally can't stand lol. You guys however are very real and very hilarious and entertaining to watch as well as very deep and intellectual with your input. Thank you for the video. I look forward to watching more of your movie reviews/content.
"Or sleet." was my favorite quote from Brandon this series 😂
Coin killed Prim on purpose. That was part of the reason for putting her in there.
Okay so, Peeta always cared about Katniss' happiness and if she were to choose Gale over him, he would've been respectful and even happy for her. Gale was always acting like a wounded puppy and guilt-tripping Katniss. Also, Gale helped create the bomb that killed Prim. He knew there were going to be innocent people there, and he still put the plan in motion. At that point Gale was so far gone that he said because Snow had no limits then they shouldn't so he literally became the same thing he was against. Peeta was brainwashed when he killed that person and Katniss only killed people to survive in the games or Coin. So, not the same thing. And no, it wasn't just for Katniss, it was against the rebels as a whole and anyone associated with the Mockingjay so he was still under mind control when he killed the person and even felt remorse after whereas Gale didn't care about killing innocent civilians.
Poor Jellybean. If you go back to the beginning where Gale is talking strategy with another soldier, their plan matches exactly what happened. People miss it bc its such a quick throw away line.
Yeah that a I go gale was having with beetee was exactly what ended up happening…man 🤦🏾♂️
-Adison
Honestly wild take to think that Katniss would have picked Gale if he didn't mess up. The biggest difference between them was that Gale wanted Katniss to choose him and Peeta only wanted her to be happy and safe regardless of who she chose. That says a lot. Also don't know how you guys are so set on trying to justify Gale killing civilians. He believed that just because they were from the capitol, they deserved to die!!!!! I don't see how that is okay. Katniss only ever killed in self-defense, same as Peeta who was exactly like Bucky and completely brainwashed. And you have to understand that EVRYTHING that Katniss ever did since the beginning was FOR PRIM. The way you're trying to make Katniss out to be a bad guy as well is honestly so fucking weird to me.
I think I feel pity more than anything for Katniss. She had to try to care for her family after her dad died, volunteered to save Prim and had to suffer the hunger games. PTSD, mentally abused by Snow - and she really just wanted to die in the second movie and I think that is why she felt so betrayed when she was saved. Then she was thrust into another situation where she is just manipulated over and over- she never wanted to kill anyone. She wanted everyone else to be safe and was willing to sacrifice herself, but even her sacrifices were manipulated against her.
Gale made multiple mistakes. He was insensitive about the survivors of the hunger games, made excuses about reasons why he didn't volunteer, got Prim killed.
That one pause after that dude got vaporized was the best reaction I’ve ever seen to that scene lmfao
Gale was good with that plan the first time they did it with the districts that were still with the capitol and as Katniss said with that thinking you can kill anyone - that is why she knew Coin did it just like Gale was good with the first time - Morally I don't think she could have been with him - Peeta (outside of the brainwashing) still had a moral compass. You also have to remember Katniss was only 17 made into something she did not want from the start. She became a symbol for the rebels by being her true self - strong and compassionate - she never wanted power or adulation
I clicked it thinking it was up already… I April fooled myself 🤦🏻♀️
I just did too 😂
You’re not the only one 😂😂😂
Guys, we saw Gail designed this in the movie and explain how this was gonna happen. This was his plan he just wasn’t expecting prim to be one of the Medics
Funny thing is Katniss and Peeta kids are played by Jennifer Lawrence nephews, so they could really look like her
I had the exact same reaction when I read the book 🥲 hurt twice as much seeing it in the movie 😭 poor Prim!
That one hit deep. I'll need a few days after seeing that to recover.
-Adison
18:23 oh sweet summer child, stop predicting the future😂
Truthfully Gales mistake cost him Prim and Katniss. Gale didn't know when the bombs were going to be dropped. The romance is in the movie only. People don't like Gale, because he was focased on romance. Katniss was focused on surviving. Katniss had no interest in being involved with any of it. She was a teenager trying to save her baby sister. Then she was trying to save Peeta, and Gale. She wanted to protect the people she loved. She was pressed into service, because it was the only way to save them. Yes, she caused people their lives, but she was not asking any of their relatives to be in a relationship with her. That is the difference between her and Gale. I don't dislike Gale just because he wanted her to love him. After the games their was never going to be a them. Just because your head knows something, doesn't mean your heart does. Peeta was programed to kill Katness. Anyone between him and that, is someone to be defeated. His mind saw opportunity and reacted. He should not have been out there, but we know what that was about. Katniss had no way of knowing the plane was going to land on the hospital if she shot it, but it definitely would have if she didn't. They all have personal demons to work out, Hunger Games are no picnic, and war is not preety or perfect. Weather there is healing after war is a choice that both sides have to make. Sometime people can, and sometimes they don't. War is not a new thin, and many make the hard choice to get along afterwards. That requires continual good faith moves from both sides. That has to be done in word and deed.
Always wished during Katniss's monologue in District 2, she would've added, "And I killed Marvel, because he killed Rue, because I killed Glimmer."
"who was trying to kill me because of snow" legit would have been a great line instead of the round and round. Good thought!
@@knitwitchpgh THX!
I laughed out loud at Boggs only being able to do pull ups.
Gale getting caught is different in the books and the movie version is just awkward. They were Snow's men. But Gale does talk about the double-bomb (allowing rescuers to come in) earlier in the movie and Katniss and him fought about whether killing was personal. I think he knew he f'ed up at the end.
What were the final Big Daddy levels for Peeta and Gale? Did Gale lose any percentage for killing Prim?
The fact that the capitol made Peeta’s worst fear happend, he said it in the first movie that if he died he could only hope to be him self and not one of their creations 😢😢
This series is so good and it’s way less of a romance than how it’s perceived. The underlying themes and narratives are so relevant and well done, I never get tired of these movies. Such a unique and interesting take.
Katniss didn't have a choice in any of her situations. They just used her as a pawn and forced her to perform for the cameras. Gale 100% had a choice whether or not to bomb innocent children, women, and medics. He proposed the idea, so the blood is literally on his hands. The bombs were even disguised as "gifts" which makes it more sick. It's the most horrible war crime imo, harming people who are just want to keep their familes safe and evacuate. The author was spot on in reflecting what happens irl war with the books.
I watched your guys whole series review of the hunger games trilogy and the one thing you need to know is that y’all think that gale and Katniss were gonna end up together? No it was always going to be Peeta she’s always going to choose Peeta, and if you read the books, you’ll get more insight into the story but Gale is that male friend of yours especially as a woman who you think that he thinks of you as just a friend, but then a few years later he starts to reveal complicated feelings for you. Katniss was just trying to keep her mother, sister & Peeta alive. Gale is over here like when a guy asks you out in the middle of class on a piece of paper and it’s like “will you be my girlfriend check yes or no”. Gale throughout this entire series was being selfish & trying to appear wounded so that Katniss would choose him over Peeta. You guys mentioned that you think that she “couldn’t survive without Gale & she could live without Peeta”. That’s actually not true. Katniss could live without Gale , but she could not survive without Peeta, because Gale I feel like was trying to get her love for all the wrong reasons. Peeta has loved Katniss unconditionally since they were 5 years old. He’s done everything he can to help Katniss, even when it was absolutely killing him. After the first games when they came back & before the quarter Qualls announced, she told him her real feelings like “hey I don’t like you like that just yet I just did all those things to get us alive out of the hunger games.” Peeta saved her life by throwing her a loaf of bread when she was starving to death at 11 years old. Also, Katniss lost her dad who worked in the mines at when she was 11 years old. Her and her mom and sister were starving. Peeta throwing that loaf of bread to her was a wake up call for her. Before Katniss dad died, he would take Katniss hunting, swimming and foraging. After Papa Everdeen‘s death & Peeta throwing Katniss the loaf of bread, it made her realize that she knows of a way to provide for her family to keep them from starving to death, Which is why she hunts and why she’s so good at hunting because she’s been doing it since she was a little baby child. The mom was checked out for years because the love of her life got blown up. if Peeta died, Katniss would be the exact same as her mom she will fall into a deep depression and not recover.
I literally just commented saying that Gale spent 4 movies saying "circle yes if u like me" and seeing this comment gave me so much validation. Thank you
gale did know ab the bombs before they went off & it felt like a stab in the chest to see prim go, all this just for her to die and to see boggs and finn go made me so sad
when the bombs went off i just knew in my gut snow wouldn’t do that. i honestly think he’d be smarter than to do that to his own ppl (not that he cared ab them)
PROPS to katniss for being so smart she knew she could kill two birds with one stone at the end. a lot of ppl saw it coming but for some reason i didn’t. my jaw was on the FLOOR. great reaction 🫶🏻
also idk if y’all realized but katniss was ab to take Nightlock after she killed Coin but peeta stopped her
I can’t wait until you guys watch the Ballad of songbirds & snakes! This was another fun journey w y’all , y’all still remain my top funniest on YT ever since the beginning 🤣 love y’all
You guys were way too harsh on Katniss for kissing Peeta during the tunnel escape lol. He was having a severe PTSD episode and she needed to ground him to pull him out of it before he continued to spiral. A lot of his trauma in this book/movie is rooted in the fact that he knew the Capitol turned him into a monster and hated himself for it (hence why he was screaming "I'm a mutt"). If you remember in the first movie, he told Katniss on the rooftop that he didn't want the Games to change him. The tragedy of what Snow did to him is that his worst fear came true - they _did_ change him (think Bucky Barnes, who had a similar arc), and in that moment he was in total despair over it. Katniss getting on his level and kissing him was her way of reminding him who he really was, even underneath all the trauma and all the conditioning - the boy with the bread. The boy who loved her more than his own life. That scene is much deeper than what it seems on surface level - it's meant to show how the roles between them were reversed. Prior to this Peeta was always the one looking out for Katniss, and he was the one who calmed her and grounded her when she was scared. Here, Peeta was the one falling apart and Katniss had to return the favor by being his source of support instead. It's a subtle indication of how they were meant to be the endgame couple, that they were able to help each other heal in a way no one else could.
Which leads me to my next point. Even if Gale was remorseful, Katniss would forever associate him with Prim's death. A relationship with that hanging between them would never be possible. Gale was Suzanne Collins' (the author) cautionary tale about how weaponizing your trauma and becoming an extremist for a cause, even a worthy one, will incur devastating consequences and destroy yourself, your relationships, and other people's lives. Katniss was tired of the cycle of violence and needed someone who could help her heal beyond it. There's a very powerful quote at the end of the book that explains why she ultimately chose Peeta in the end: "[W]hat I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that."
What's doubly significant is that prior to the end of Mockingjay, Katniss never wanted children because she feared for their lives. In the book it took several years for her to come around to the idea, even after the regime change and she and Peeta had reconciled. Peeta was the only person who made her feel safe enough to believe that her children could be happy and have a better life. I don't think she would have felt safe enough with Gale to raise a family with him, even if they had gotten together in the end.
I'd highly recommend reading the books because it's a lot clearer there how Gale's anger at the Capitol had radicalized him. He's very difficult to root for by the end of the series. Also, the books are in general fantastic and not too long to read. You'll get more context for everything that happened in the films. I'd recommend reading the prequel book too since that adds SO much to Snow's character and explains why he hated Katniss and Peeta so much.
I can remember being in shock/denial when Prim died. She got to live a few more years of life than she would have had Katniss not taken her place.
In the end Katniss saved and freed more lives than she took.
These books and movies are great for teens and adults.
Watching the kiss at the wedding hits even funnier after the same dialogue you had during the Twilight wedding.
It’s the moment of silence right before you talk through the entire ending of the movie 😂😂😂😂 love yall
They made it way clearer in the book, but Gale designed the double bomb trap, knowing the first round would attract support people who weren't even soldiers. The tactic worked, and hit Prim. When he says he doesnt know, its true, because he didnt order the attack or have anything to do with his tactic being used, but he KNOWS they used his weapon. He effectively designed the thing that killed Prim, despite the fact he would never use it against her - but Coin would. Gale is just as much a victim of his circumstances as Peeta or Katniss.
He literally said it was okay to kill the civilians of the Capitol. He was okay with it being used, just not against someone he cared about personally. That's messed up.
He is only remorseful because it affected Prim. If the only thing that makes you feel remorse is because it affected you personally. Let me tell you, I feel no remorse cutting of such a person from my life. The double bomb trap is such a disgusting idea, how can anyone get past it? Even if it hadn’t been deployed. That idea came from HIS brain, nobody brainwashed him.
You missed some scenes of the movie when it came to reasoning. Katniss asked to stop filming when she was in the hospital, but they filmed it without her knowing, but it wasn't the recording that killed people, it was Snow. He received a video of a drone patrolling and confirmed it there. So, filming or not, he was going to send the bomb there.
Another point, which was not very clear in the film, but in the book explains: Gale was 50% to blame for the death of Prim and the other people in the Capitol, another 50% is Coin's. Why? Gale who created the bombs and had the idea of killing people in the capital and Coin sent Prim knowing this so she could just die and blame it on Snow and thus accept a new Hunger game with the children of the Capitol.
Katniss never liked Gale romantically, but she knew he liked him and tried, however, they were always very different. And over time, he became angrier and ended up embracing war. Katniss noticed this. Gale had no mercy for anyone anymore.
Peeta was always kind and even with all the traumas, she fought to stay sane. But most importantly, he knew exactly what Katniss went through, because he went through it too. When Katniss chose Peeta, she says in the book that she would never choose Gale because Gale had a lot of anger inside him, he was more aggressive, and she couldn't have someone like that on her side. Katniss herself is more aggressive and all. But in the book she says that she was always Peeta, he was the only one who brought her peace, mePeeta was always kind and even with all the traumas, she fought to stay sane. But most importantly, he knew exactly what Katniss went through, because he went through it too. When Katniss chose Peeta, she says in the book that she would never choose Gale because Gale had a lot of anger inside him, he was more aggressive, and she couldn't have someone like that on her side. Katniss herself is more aggressive and all. But in the book she says that she was always Peeta, he was the only one who brought her peace, even though he was going through the same thing as her.
Lolll y’all HAVE to watch The Divergent movies next bro 😩😭
Exactly! Everyone has done something bad throughout this war so the fact that Katniss still chose to be with Peeta shows how much it did not matter how real or not real Gale was. 😅After the first games, Gale never stood a chance. Katniss is already fire. She does not need someone like Gale who is also fire. She needs someone more like Peeta. It just took a while for her to admit it to herself, since of course she was only 16/17 when entering the games.
Also, all the people Katniss ends up killing, is never to justify anything. Peeta is the same way. They both have the same principles, on the other hand, Gale thinks it’s OK to kill people if for “the right reason.” That would never sit with Katniss.
When you said at 1:05:00 "It makes me wonder if you would have made it out of the games without turning into a bad guy", I think that's the first time i've ever heard someone voice that, but now that you've said it, I think its a big part of why I don't like Gale! I really don't think he would have.
Thinking of the first games, In a world where he went into the games with some other girl from 12 and Katniss was left behind. Even though he hated the capitol, I think he is far too selfish and angry a character to not fully participate in the games. he probably would have hated and hunted the career pack as much as they hunted him. If it came down to it, I think Gale is the only one of the 3 who could have killed Rue. Not saying he definitely would have, but I could see it. Katniss really only killed in defense. I'm curious how Peeta would react if Katniss wasn't there for him to focus on, but I don't think he would be an aggressor. He'd probably have just died.
There's tons of comments explaining Katniss's side, and Gale's wrongdoings, so I won't go into that. Thanks for the reactions!
That's how he would have been. When Katniss said she's just a hunter right before the first game, Gale says killing ool is no different and to give the Capitol a show.
56:08 "That is an acting cat." 😂😂
Y’all right in that 2 seconds that cat definitely act it butt off lol 😂
The fire bombing of 12 fundamentally changed Gale IMO. It hardened him to the point where he became willing to do the evils he considered necessary for the cause. I find myself thinking he might not have been so willing to be so cold hearted if he didn't witness the ruthless murder of 9000+ people and wasn't carrying the weight of not being able help them.
Y'all are very insightful, and that makes you enjoyable to watch.
Throughout the book, Gale was ALWAYS willing to go too far and deeply angry. He's been like that from that beginning, but after the bombing, he felt he was right no matter what
@@tho_she_be_but_litl Gale was always like that. He saw killing people the same as hunting deer.
It’s sad how the whole revolution started from Katniss volunteering for her sister yet in the end Prim died! 😢 And yes we can’t entirely judge Gale but all the movies have been about playing games(prop videos, the actual hunger games)I think it’s the fact Gale had a choice! Do we really think Peeta would’ve bombed a bunch of kids?! Or Katniss!? Although the hospital was bombed, it wasnt her intentions for the planes to hit the hospital! We also have to look at the fact that she’s an 18 year old girl being pushed into a position of saving EVERYBODY!! We have to think what would we have done if we were her? Seriously! It’s easy to say what we would do in someone’s else’s position!!
The planes didn’t hit the hospital when she shot them down. I’m not sure if that’s what your comment implied, but just to let anyone reading this know, the hospital was already destroyed when they shot them down. The movie did a poor job showing the angles & clips this way. Many people think Katniss accidentally killed the people in the hospital, but she wouldn’t have been able to live with herself if that actually happened.
Its not about morals of the act of killing, its the fact that he was indirectly responsible for the death of the one person she did all of this for: PRIM. He promised her whatever happened, hed keep her family safe, and he broke that promise, willingly or not, its not something you can come back from.
Found y'all this past month. Love your content! Keep it going!
the Ballad of songbirds and snakes 😂- finna see why snow like that
My bro’s figured that game out before I ever did. Well done indeed!
Yall reactions are so great. Very focused and great commentary! Gonna watch the next one.
Lmao that baby is not asian 💀 it's Jennifer Lawrences niece/nephew I forget which gender. That baby was the only one who wouldn't cry and could stay put for so long bc he/she already knew her.
They were her 2 nephews lol
Prim wasn’t supposed to be there, she was too young to be front lines. Coin gave orders for her to go. Gale didn’t know she was going to be there.
The silence was LOUD 😂😂😂
Katniss never loved Gale how he loved Peeta, Katniss didn’t even want a family until she met Peeta.. she was young and Gale was all she knew but at the end she always showed that Peeta was her end game. Also about Gale, I understand he didn’t intend for Prim to be killed but I don’t think he cared too much, Katniss already didn’t love him before that but after his involvement she would never come back from that.
Katniss didn't wind up wanting kids because of Peta, she wanted kids because Pan Em had been defeated and she feels her offspring won't live under threat of violence
So excited to see yall finish this one. I’ve enjoyed it very much
“Katniss rabies” is INSANITY 😂😂😂
I’m cryin at that everytime 😂
I recently discovered your page and I am definitely a fan. I subscribe to quite a few commentary/reaction pages and yours is my favorite. I appreciate the fact that you have in depth conversations about the movies/shows you watch. The dialogue and jokes between you, Brandon and Carianna have me cracking up all the time . I love the fact that you guys actually watch the movies and pause them to comment. Watching these reactions with ya'll makes me feel like I'm watching them with my cousins and my family. Thank you guys for giving me comfort on the days when I need to laugh and smile.
Literally took me until after the movie & a good look at the thumbnail to finally get Adison's April Fools Joke 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
“throw him in the oil bruh he’s Done, we can’t be losing good people ” 😭😭😭
Yall gotta watch the prequel movie. Of Songbirds and Snakes. It's Snow's story
"I'm not saying she's Snow, but she might be rain."
"I feel like she can't SURVIVE without Gale. I feel like she can't LIVE without Peeta."
That's deep, yo.
Are u guys doing the ballad of songbirds and snakes?!
Yes, that's on the agenda as well!
-Adison
Gale’s plan killed Prim. The plan Katniss argued with him about. Prim was helping the wounded regardless of their ‘side’ because she was a good medic, and she got blown up by Gale’s heartless plan. Could you ever even look at him again? Be honest. That’s a goodbye for me at minimum.
Because Gale watched his whole community get slaughtered and he absolutely has a side. While that was happening, Katniss and Peta were looking the other districts in the eye, feeling survivors guilt and all. They have completely different experiences. The Hunger Games Victor's vs Victim of a war crime.
That’s Voldemort’s nephews n them😅 y’all CRACKKK me up
Here after the LSU/Iowa game. Needed a lil pick-me-up afterwards and remembered yall dropped this gem
So the books give some more detail on the Gale/bomb situation. In the movie you get Gale and Beetee talking about them, but in the books, they are actually designing them. The double bombing was Gale’s idea and design. Specifically made to target the kindness of those who would rush to aid and give assistance. Katniss was against it from the beginning and thought it was cruel. So yeah…Gale is the reason Prim died and he KNEW he could never be with Katniss from that moment. Katniss came to the conclusion earlier in the book, but that was what sealed the deal for her. Ain’t no coming back from that
SHE MAY NOT BE SNOW SHE MIGHT BE RAIN that’s so funny 😭😭
Quote from the book explaining why she chooses peeta
That what I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that. So after, when he whispers, "You love me. Real or not real?" I tell him, "Real.”
Coin was gunning for Prim because she was scared the people would choose Katniss as President. She aming for Katniss as well but she survived. All in all she is evil asf.
Just so you know, in the books Katniss and Gail DID have makeup/got all dressed up before they went out there. They didn’t stand out like the way the movie made it look
Bring Carianna back.
She's definitely needed here lol
Coin killed Prim to get back at Katniss because she couldn't control Katniss. It's mentioned in the books that Prim was too young to be where she was. She would've had to have special approval to be on the front lines.
SO ready!! Sad I missed the live recording 😢
Preciate you joining us! We will have more live streams coming soon!! ✊🏽
-Adison
@@edn Brain washed people can't be blamed for their actions Peeta is innocent
That stunned moment of silence for Messalla was soo real....like the pure evil of the Capitol was something else
Fun fact the stylist that let them in is Snow's cousin! She made a lot of sacrifices when they were growing up just so they could have food and clothes and when he got on he turned his back on her.
The utter SHOCK after the light boom death sent me