Thousand Sons are kinda dumb and that's okay | 40k lore
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- I feel like this one may lose me a few friends, but I know my truth
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The Caretaker - A1 - It's just a burning memory
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/ arthurbones1
If he doesn't start the 20th episode with "Hi, I'm Alpharius" im rioting
Holy shit yeah he needs to do this
His voice when he announces himself always makes me think of Arthur, The Tick's sidekick.
Imagine the headline, would start a second satanic panic
He didn't.
We still love him anyway......
Magnus is the dad that insists he doesnt need to read the instructions to put his son's Ikea loft bed together
When dad opens a hell portal in your bedroom because he put screw A into hole D
No, magnus is the teenage boy who gets his GF pregnant cuz his dad never gave him the talk
@@Yourantsallyhe was told by multiple people even the emperor not to fuck around with certain places and he still did it
magnus: is made into one of the most powerful psykers ever
emperor and a bunch of others who cant really use their brains that well: hur dur no use power hur dur
if they were so hellbent on him not using his power WHY LET HIM OUT OF THE EMPERORS SIGHT
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 Eh, Bad Dad Emps doing some Stupid Bad Dad Shit is a pretty common Emperor L.
Remember that time Magnus koolaid manned through the Emperor's Psychic shield and doomed Terra to an eventual warp storm? I do. I remember it.
i member
Wasn't that the time he also doomed humanity to needing to use the Warp for travel?
pepperidge farms remembers
Magnus tts ):
Pepperbridge farm remembers
The Sons illustrate a side effect of high intelligence - overthinking a problem till you come up with the worst solution possible and execute it with full confidence, oblivious to minor common sense reasons that will lead you to a disaster. Which is why I like them, for they have a flaw that truly brings them low, rather than being a simple inconvenience. As for their aesthetics, the only thing that bothers me is how monotone it felt to build all the Rubrics and Scarabs, with their poses all nearly identical.
Look up: ‘what if Woodrow Wilson lost the election’
Highly intelligent people can be humble. That is a "side" effect of having an inflated ego
"Reign it in A BIT?" He banned the use of psychic powers in the legion FOREVER. It would have been the equivalent of issuing the White Scars a speed limit or ordering the sixth to go wipe out all wolves.
Yeah, this bothered me too.
This, and explaining the Dunning-Kruger effect in terms of intelligence instead of competence is making me doubt this man's reading comprehension skill.
also the spy during the council of nikea was actually time traveling horus from the heresy manipulating events
I mean that was bc he saw magnus had consorted with demons... still extreme but kinda understandable
@@phinnyloklok1518then maybe warn him about said demon, rather than prohibiting him from doing the one thing he is good at. Especially since his thing puts him at risk with demons.
I think Magnus did everything wrong but I at least like the tragedy behind that.
it is satisfying to watch yeah
I think the most interesting struggles are when things don't turn out the way they should in someones mind.
It's good narratively
He deserved.
Him doing something wrong is what makes him interesting. I legit think "Magnus did nothing wrong" does a massive disservice to the character to make him really boring.
@@TheBoneZone40kare you familiar with the many TTS gags about Magnus ?(like an Australian accent)
@@TheBoneZone40k For a history snippet reference the council of Nikea is THE most on the nose reference in all of WH 40K as it is one letter change away from Nicea, the city where 1,700 ish years ago an agreement was made. This agreement was all the big shot bishops and philosophers coming up with (if you are an every Sunday good boy) the Nicean Creed (and side note, Saint Nicholas, the basis of Santa Clause, punched Aria in the face for being a heretic).
You forget the White Scars Stormseer who, representing the Chief Librarians of 12 Legions, also spoke at the Council of Nicaea, and was also straight to the point, just like Wyrdmake was. He said (in mangled Engli- Gothic) that psykers are born with their powers, and that if a psychic Marine is discovered, it's better to train that Marine's mind into a weapon than let his head explode. I think that's a reasonable position, don't you?
Seems like a very White Scars thing to say, they are blessed (or maybe cursed) with some damn common sense, that must be a terrible burden in an universe in which shooting themselves in the foot is the big unifying factor for almost all factions.
However, the white scar seer was speaking in a very philosophical tone like a tibetian monk and the point sort of flew off everyones head.
It's almost like it's the Emperors fault for not teaching Magnus, THE BIGGEST PSYKER OF ALL PRIMARCHS, ABOUT THE FUCKING WARP AND CHAOS
@@zeppelincraft1443 I don't really see how, unless they couldn't understand that the terms "Stormseer" and "psyker" were supposed to be interchangeable. That speech was very easy to understand.
@@g.sergiusfidenas6650 I think the fact that Jaghatai Khan's tendency to speak truth to power filtered down to his sons, and the Legion benefitted for it. Even after the Edict of Nicaea was issued, the Great Khan basically tore it up because he's such a chad.
Alright... I see the point HOWEVER, let us not forget that literally all of the Horus Heresy, ALL of it, could've been avoided had the Emperor trusted his sons enough with the truth of the Chaos Gods.
This comment carry’s so much more weight when you consider Magnus of all people was (from what I know) going to be the one to take the Emperors place on the golden throne. I get the Emperor couldn’t tell all the legions, especially due to the plethora of psykers who could easily mind read a stray thought that would spell disaster for the imperium or potentially even the webway project. But I don’t understand why the fuck the Emperor would choose not to tell his most psychically gifted son who of all people would have both benefitted most from that information while also being the best at keeping that information a secret from psykers or other space marines.
@@maxwellbajwa9190 Well, not to make a character case study out of the Emperor however, let us take into consideration that the Emperor viewed his sons as a Mechanic views his tools. The Emperor has shown to care very little, if at all, about his sons. You can look to a majority of the Traitor Primarchs for evidence of that. What father would rip his son from his friends to watch them die and then not care that the same son would expire due to a technological torture that was not his own doing? What father would recognize his son's want and need to build rather than fight and give another son the opportunity to build a castle? What father would ditch his sons in the middle of a galactic war to return to Terra without giving any advice? What kind of father would steal the revenge his son deserved? What father would assassinate his own son no matter how damaged he may be?
When the Emperor does show compassion, it is used to gain the servitude of his sons, nothing more. Even Horus, supposedly the Emperor's favorite son, was still abandoned by his father to fight a war he had no idea how to continue. Is it truly any wonder that the Emperor didn't tell his sons, neigh, his tools, about the Chaos Gods?
@@alienstar2088 I actually totally agree with you that the Emperor viewed his sons as tools. The way he treated Angron, Mortarion, and Perturabo are perfect examples of his mindset. And it makes sense that he allowed his Primarchs to call themselves his sons not because he cared for it, but because it was just more convenient than the truth. Still, it is this view of his Primarchs and their legions as tools and his own hubris, I think we can agree, that ultimately doomed him. Especially in his final dealings with Magnus it’s pretty clear that if he had just cared to ask anyone around him, or even just reason more with Magnus himself he would have known Magnus would refuse.
@@alienstar2088 Also I totally agree on your point of the Emperors view of his son as tools is (at least partly) why he chose not to tell his sons about the Chaos gods. What I think I’m trying to get at here is that the Emperors internment on the golden throne as a living corpse is largely due to how he viewed his sons and the decisions that resulted from that view. I think what I’m trying to get at though is that if the Emperor should have told anyone it should have been Magnus due to the role Magnus was meant to play, but I agree the Emperors nature is what caused that oversight in the first place. Additionally I think the Emperor has plenty of time to reflect on how the view he holds of his Primarchs led to his internment on the golden throne, and that information will either drive him mad and make him more cruel or propel him into being a better man and leader for the Imperium.
Nothings more ironically funny than people quoting and using the Dunning Kruger effect wrong
Careful, definitely depends on context. Intelligent people will make mistakes, which is an inevitable part of intellectual pursuits. Dumb people can be carefully tokenistic to convince themselves and others they're smart, while a very intelligent person could openly misinterpret the Dunning Kruger effect - Classifying it as ironically funny could be considered doubly ironic on your behalf 😉
A fan who doesn't like both the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons ?
I'm genuinely shocked and pleasantly surprised. 😮
I'm like that too, the only thing i like about the space wolves is their hate for the Sons
The two legions deserve each other honestly
@@vancodling4223 true
I just hate all Space Boy Scouts, chaos or not. Xenos rule.
@@DominatorLegend I Bet You're A Tau Simp
I love the thousand son. The flaws and there pros. Pre and post heresy. I just find them really cool. Also you can’t just change my mind that Magnus is just a younger version of the emperor.
Magnus is a younger, less organized Emperor with no discipline.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 so the younger Emperor from when he lived in Anatolia
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 yea just a younger emperor
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 the emperor was barely organised, the unification wars and great crusade were cluster fucks with insanely poor planning, the emperor put barely any thought into how the primarchs, hell for quite some time he even knew the heresy was coming and still did nothing, but just like with every other character who fucks up they never get chastised for it only magnus gets talked about
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 Right XD anyone who can call someone who made all these Primarchs who then turned to chaos, who can basically see through time organized is just.... goofy.
I mean, they can write what they want and plot armor it all working out in the end, and theres always arguments about unreliable narrators and stuff(for instance is the fight where the emperor fatally wounded ever been canonically made totally clear yet? Isnt there like some theory that Sanguinius went rage the first time, killed Horus himself, and then was raging on big E before big E killed him reluctantly after being wounded by Sanguinius instead of Horus?(which makes more sense to me thematically than the other way... another point about organized and disorganized either way.... WHY show reluctance? ..... I mean, something something to die and get souls sacrificed to become a God himself or something I guess, but...))
You can always write "it had to be this way in the end" to justify the emperors actions, for sure... but to call any of it clean or well organized or well planned feel pretty out of touch and wild XD
I still get chills when I remember the Emperor telling Magnus "You were almost the warhammer 40000"
If you tell a professional driver to never drive because "driving is dangerous" dont blame him when he ignores you and gets into a car you know to be rigged to explode. Ducking mention THAT part. The corpsickle set Magnus up more than space squid ever did.
Exactly! so few people get or remember this point!
@@Matt-lk5ng it's the classic split in understanding responsibility that most disagreements are based on, most famously politics.
In the Horus Heresy Legions card game, Magnus' shard has an emote that says:
"I was wrong... about everything"
In a universe where dark eldar exist, Magnus truly has the most hardcore nipple piercings
The Dunning-Kruger effect is not how smart you think you are versus how smart you actually are. It is about how competent you perceive yourself vs how competent you are measured to be.
In the original study, everyone thought they were above average, believing they scored higher than half of the participants, but crucially, perceived relative score consistently goes *up* with higher score. "Peak of 'Mount Stupid'" and "Valley of Despair" is not described at all by the Dunning-Kruger effect. In fact, TSONS would be data extending or refuting Dunning-Kruger: One of the most interesting observations it makes is that there's a point where perceived competence actually slips *below* measured competence.
You could make an arguement that Dunning-Kruger applies here by saying that TSONS and Magnus didn't realize how inept they actually were when conferring with chaos, but that doesn't seem to be the point you're making. IMO, what you're trying to describe is a cognitive bias where you're so good at one thing you believe you're competent at things you believe are sufficiently related, without realizing that you're missing nuance. To me this sounds like a combination of an Overconfidence effect and, related to their views on competence of other groups, Naive Realism. Being great at sorcery doesn't automatically make you great at siege warfare, even if you correctly believe you can make your understanding of a catapault out of mind magic.
Sorry for the dissertation, I just couldn't help commenting. There's something I find really fascinating about people misunderstanding the Dunning-Kruger effect, then incorrectly applying it.
Yeah, I took a lot of Psych in college, and I remember it being
- Dumb/unqualified people significantly overrate their knowledge
-More knowledgeable people rate their knowledge much more accurately
So they know what they don't know, but they don't suddenly completely lose all self-confidence.
If only someone played Paradox Billiards Vostroyan Roulette Fourth Dimension Hypercube Chess Strip Poker with Tzeench so he couldn't talk Magnus into fucking up
I think you mean Paradox Billiards Vostroyan Roulette Fourth Dimension Hypercube Chess Strip Poker with Fifth Dimensional Time Travel.
The reason people think Magnus did nothing wrong, is probably because out of all the traitor primarchs he's the only one who didn't have a reason to betray the Emperor, or at least the one with the least reasons. He was conned by Tzeentch into doing it.
And horus since he commanded Leman to kill magnus and TS
As well as fulgrim since despite his sometimes haughty nature he was loyal thru and thru and was only because of the laer blade
@@dino-bk7vh I thought newer lore was he exorcised the demon and still joined chaos?
@@thatwelshman2713
Yeah but….chaos is a force that COMPLETELY changes you on a fundamental level into something that is NOT you…..so if fulgrim was still sane is up to debate but the moment he touched the laer blade he was a goner
@@thatwelshman2713lol horus didnt tell russ to do anything he just said "hey russ that Magnus guy has gone to far someone should really reign him in... anyway have fun retrieving magnus"
He decided on his own to attack even when a custodes stood next him and told him that it was a retrieval mission as he nuked prospero
If Magnus fuxked up, then so did Leman, and so did the Emperor. Magnus did not fuck up in a vacuum, there were FACTORS, including the Chaos *GOD* of Lies and Deceit, working against my red boi.
I always say that Magnus' primary flaw wasn't arrogance, like everyone always says, but his optimism. He believed in the Emperor's dream of an enlightened, utopian empire more than anyone. It was ironically naïve of him to believe that was ever going to happen. Not only was the dream a potential lie to begin with, but even some of his loyalist brothers were opposed to it. The only person who who really had his back was Sanguinius.
And Sanguinius is a bona-fide mutant no matter how you put it. Of course he would tolarate some tame minor psyker mutations.
@@zeppelincraft1443wow, really using the hard M on mutant, huh?
@@Yourantsally The hard M is reserved for Mortarion to say.
Jokes aside, I think if the council of Nikea went Magnus' way, Tzeentch would have single-handedly won the great game.
@@zeppelincraft1443 Except tzeentch got his way anyways. Magnus didn't stop, the space wolves still used rune priests, mortarion was already a psyker and just didn't know it (not to mention the psykik potential of typhon/typhus) Ns everyone has librarians. If big E just trusted his sons enough to tell them what they should be wary of, rather than just blanket "no psykers", SO much could have been avoided
@@YourantsallyThe Emperors plan was to make sure no one knew about the Chaos God's so that they would starve to death
I think the video is worded a bit harshly / a bit on the nose. I understand what you mean and I actually enjoy the Thousand Sons because of their flaws. They aren't stupid. They're desperate loving brothers. When Magnus was first adorned with his legion. He saw the mess of it, and stuck around because of the fact that they're his sons. He sacrificed himself, his eye, his mortality and his life in the end to make sure his legion would live on. About the Trial. Yes they disobeyed the boundaries set on them by the other priamarchs. So what? Tell the World Eaters not to kill, the Ultramarines to ignore their supply lines or the White Scars to not use vehicles. EVERY legion has something they specialize in and if it was ripped away / banned from use. Every other legion would ignore it just like the Thousand Sons did. Without their abilities, they're just an inefficient legion.
When the burning of prospero happened. Magnus wanted to die. Then halfway through decided against it and began to fight back. While yes this incident was also idiotic, Why did Magnus wait so long? Why Didn't he turn himself in? Why didn't he explain himself? Those are all valid arguments but there's the other side, Why did Leman listen to Horus? Why did the Custodes not stop it? Why didn't the Emperor send literally anyone else? Why didn't the Emperor JUST TELL MAGNUS WHAT HE WAS DOING? The entire story of the Thousand Sons is a tragic story of them trying their hardest to be good people while being betrayed, held back constantly and straight up just withheld information.
It's less of they don't look to others for information or aren't attempting to better themselves and much more of the universe was constantly against them because in short they were fighting a battle against Tzeetch himself. This is shown perfectly in the friendship of Ohthere Wyrdmake and Ahriman. THEY WERE FRIENDS, Ohthere Wyrdmake wasn't a spy. The two were genuine battle bothers despite their differences. So when at the Trail of Magnus. When Ahriman stood to defend his failing Primarch. Ohthere Wyrdmake just straight up betrayed him. Denouncing their entire friendship and withholding information he knew about the Thousand Sons so he may side against their Physic abilities. This happens time and time again where the Thousand Sons try to do something or work towards a goal. Something always either puts them off track, puts a knife in the side of their plans or straight up crumples the plans into a ball.
So when the Thousand Sons are portrayed as stupid. I can't help but think you're missing the entire point of their backstory, characters and legion as a whole. It's not that they're stupid. They're desperate broken figures attempting to put the pieces of their lives back together. Ahriman did the rubric out of the fear that the legion would be wiped out to the flesh change. Now he looks for a cure. Magnus sacrificed himself and gave his soul to Tzeetch to save his legion from the scouring of prospero. Now Ahriman looks for the pieces of knowledge to undo the rubric and Magnus is quite literally looking for the shards of his soul.
Nothing can do them more justice than "The Ancient Awaits by Graham McNeill" The 3 sorcerers in this short story show that their legion is so close to Magnus that the idea a primarch could do something so heinous to one of their sons makes they say that Rylanor deserves better. This also shows that they're one of if not the least insane chaos legion. If anything they would happily go back to the Imperium once their issues are fixed.
As in the book Echoes of Eternity. Magnus is offered a new legion and to be welcomed back into the imperium by Vulcan and the Emperor. Magnus asks if he would be able to convert his current legion into this new one and the Emperor and Vulcan say No. In which Magnus declines out of love for his sons.
So while The Thousand Sons have MANY MANY flaws. I personally feel that the video does absolutely 0 justice to the overall idea of the legion. Calling them idiots makes sense if you have no idea of their broader story but once you learn how their hands were forced and what led them there. I think they're some of the smartest and most interesting characters in 40k. Give or take their arrogance.
(Also they usually are on the wrong end of the 'Mary Sue' sword, Black legion, spaces wolves and such. aka some writers just do the Thousand Sons so so so dirty and really make them underpowered compared to their other lore.)
Not absolutely banned magic
But
You have to be really REALLY careful about it.
Many other legion space marines still use psychic but they decrease it as low as possible.
Psychics are dangerous and even more for thousand sons but they can't stop overusing it.
That's their problem overusing something that they literally CAN'T control AND it will kill them on the way for using it.
Exactly takes the words right out of my mouth.
This one comment managed to deconstruct an entire video's premise and convince me contrary to what was being said (except for the post heresy aesthetic, I do agree with mr. bones on that. I don't hate the design, I just think the pre heresy one is better) Bravo. It helps I want to play the thousand suns for the funky magic powers, but you did bring up excellent points with examples that showed that there's more to them than just "I'm smarter than you, and I think I'm right" followed by a clusterfuck. Also I like the idea of a faction being laid low BECAUSE of empathy, rather than being jerks and getting a comeuppance for it. The tragic idea of good guys becoming bad guys because things don't work out how they rightfully should is the perfect tragedy I expect out of the grimdark future of 40k.
Thousand Sons and Eldar as a whole are a good filter to measure someone's reading comprehension. Burning of Prospero is easily one of the best written events in all of 40k, up there with Istvan III.
You had me until the Council of Nikea bit. The Emperor literally told them to give up the central purpose of their lives with no explanation or recommendations on how to move forward. The KSons are my favorite legion and the dumbest smart guys ever, but they got done dirty from every angle.
Played by tzeentch from the start
The arhriman-twink isnt the fanbase. It is one person. I do not dare to mention her name, lest she appear.
I have seen thing unment for human eyes.
The eggs, dear emperor, the eggs.
I want to see it, give me the link so that I can.
I have seen way too horrific shit to recount and I want something messed up to laugh at this week, hence I demand it.
@@necrosteel5013 You were either an Iron Warrior or an Emperor's Children. No inbetween.
@@fernandobraga8455 I guess I am a lot closer to the iron warriors. They are one of my favorite chaos legions after all.
Vezimira is the only thing worth mentioning about the Thousand Sons
Give me the name so i can do more research into this pls :3
Magnus is one of my fav Traitor Primarchs alongside Angron and Perturabo! The Burning of Prospero was one of the most tragic moments in the heresy Lemans reluctance to initiate the battle pleading with Magnus just for him to lock himself away in his tower was gut wrenching… i want Magnus to regain his noble shard and return into the fold but GW probably has other plans…
Wasn’t magnus broke into many shards and he just got biggest pieces and a lot of the smaller ones? It’d be cool if the rest of his shards were converging to become a good version of him.
@@sebastianzmijewski1282 Yea Ahriman collected all his shards but one which was his most important his Noble shard if Magnus ever got it back nd became whole again his redemption is possible.
@@wolflordgio6320but malkidor decided to be a dick..
"reluctance" his slaughter of prospero says otherwise, and then going straight for the kill on magnus shows he clearly wanted this, but hey space furries are gonna space furry
Lemon Rush was the first person on the ground gleefully slaughtering civilians. He wasn't reluctant. He wanted to burn prospero for a long time
when an impcel says something so psykphobic you have to hit them with that classic magnus stare:
(love the video)
When your legion and primarch was supposed to be one of the best and smartest but continuously fails and makes dumb decisions
To quote Isyander and Koda:
"Magnus did nothing wrong. He was told to do nothing, and he did it wrong".
It kind of sucks that in a literary universe where pskyers have such potential, the psychic legion is reduced to “oops all mistakes” because no one knew how to write them.
The Thousand Sons are an amazing example of where intellect and wisdom differ. I think that's a big part of the Dunning-Kruger effect, people can be incredibly curious, open and intuitive, but they lack the practicality and experience to back it up. This is the Thousand sons. I personally relate to them a lot, not the hyper-intelligence, but the arrogance, pride and detesting of tradition and experience. Magnus did everything wrong, and I love that. They're a classic tale on the dangers of arrogance, they've helped me realize a lot about myself, and I just find them endlessly cool. They're a more elegant and "unknowable" side of chaos that I will always adore.
I also feel like the headdresses are thematic of the legion as a whole: cool, original, but very impractical and kind of useless in a crunch.
Edit: Let's be honest, Magnus, Arhiman and the Thousand Sons may not be twinks by the standards of us mortals, they are ultra-jacked demi gods of knowledge and sorcery, but compare them to the Space Wolves and Death Guard, their polar opposites, and I can at least understand where people are getting it.
I agree a lot with your thesis here. The Thousand Sons, to me, always represented the worst aspects of the Imperial truth of the Emperor's original plan. The sheer arrogance and spite they hold for other societies' superstitions about the Warp blinded them to the very real dangers, even as they mastered the more technical aspects. Their Primarch is equally as fun.
Magnus, in all the worst ways, is truly one of the three Primarchs closest to the Emperor himself in mind. The cruelty born of callousness, the spiteful rants against his own brothers!
bro at least thousand sons were honest and idealists compare to hypocrisy of wolves and smelly grave f*ckers and even more heroic than salamanders
I'm not too familiar with the Thousand Sons, but some of their sorcerers did back Rylanor so they're cool in my book.
They were moved by his honor which is cool but I got to think that at least in some small part they decided that going out instantly due the bomb was infinite times better than whatever Fulgrim and his band of degenerates had in store for them if they were to be captured by him afterwards.
Ah yes vistario
Such a cool guy
Shame he's dead
In magnus's defense, he did less wrong then other traitor primarchs and in the council of nikea, one of lemans arguments were 'they use evil space magic, we use friendly fenris magic!' That said, he's definitely not inocent of his own share of dumb
Magnus would not have done everything wrong if the Emperor, beloved by all, had not done everything wrong first. Like not telling him hey, don't try to mind talk to me for a while!
He kinda did...the edict of Nikaea
Why would that be necessary if all warp exploration was le banned?
He told him not to use magic, but in the face of Horus' betrayal, that can be understood.
@Alastor yeah. But even his sons were like "let us deliver it" to which magni magic responded "nah watch this"
@@wiccanthropy1956 tbf, when you're talking about traveling massive distances with a looming Heresy, all the prep time you can get would be the best. Maybe Emps shouldve told the only person capable of breaking his special barrier about the special barrier just incase he decides to be a bad boy and use his magic anyway.
I admit that the Thousand Sons are my favorite Legion. I will also admit that they are the smartest idiots in the galaxy.
Though I do like that one of the main reasons that they fell to Chaos is the fact that they were kind of forced into it. Both sides were actively pushing Magnus and his Legion further and further into Chaos's arms. In one of the books the Emperor said that he would still have accepted Magnus back, the only price he would have had to pay was to kill his own Legion. Vulcan, who was there, was asked if he would accept the deal if their positions where reversed, and Vulcan catagorically said No. That is what I like about them they were called the Monster so often that they just got sick and tired of it and pretty much said, "Fine we will be your monsters."
The problem with the sons is they never won anything important, and they should have been able to kill some REALLY big stuff, because they're throwing so much power around it turns em inside out. Even if they do use it for good, eventually they're going to die just like a mechanicus troop in a radioactive tank. Unfortunately, none of that was properly conveyed in their lore.
Ate thousand sons
Ate iron warriors
Ate emperors children
Ate world eaters
Ate Black legion
Ate death guard
Ate word bearers
Ate alpha legion
Ate night lords
Luv me emprah
Ate all traitors, simple as
Then why did you reference Alpha Legion? Or do you just hate them as well?
If the Emperor taught his children, especially Magnus, about chaos, Magnus wouldn't be so darn arrogantly curious.
Emperor did that countless times. Especially with Magnus. He warned him not to go deep and not to interact with demons. And look what that arrogant red mad lad did to him, to his legion and to reputation of Psychers and most importantly to Emperor's grand project utterly destroying it.
@@Warmaster2001 did the Emperor know that Fulgrim was wielding the Blade of Laer?
You can say a lot about the Thousand Sons, but I definitely wouldn't call them boring
I think that, if the emperor just explained how the chaos gods work to magnus, that basically none of their fuck ups would happen. this is what happens when you don’t educate your children
Being tragic does not mean you are immune to being called out for your own blunders.
The Thousand Sons are tragic, yes. But they are also stupid. And that in and of itself is also tragic because of the great potential they had as a Legion with their abilities and what they accomplished with Prospero.
Love your humor and slides.
Full respect and everything. But bro just called the thousand sons boring, and proceeded to make a video about how the ultra marines are fun. The Ultramarines. Yeah, the guys who’s Primarchs special power is being an office desk worker. The guys who win every battle, have no inherent flaws, a billion trillion named characters (which I bet most people could barely name one), are currently leading the Imperium, are front and center in nearly all 40k media recently and are literally the vanilla space marines. Yeah, those guys. The Smurf marines themselves. Although admittedly the Thousand Sons are blue as well (post heresy naturally).
Legit. Even after Magnus did nothing wrong through the Emperors Webway project, he literal could have reached out to the Imperium and offered his own surrender. Instead he threw a psychic veil over the planet and dragged millions of innocents down with him.
There was no way for the Wolves to know they weren't falling into some paychic death trap, so opened with a full bombardment
I do agree, but the emperor also screwed up magnus redemption for destroying terra's psychic shield. The emeperor said that the punishment would be to kill all of his legion and giving him another one. He should have known that magnus wouldnt do that and there are plenty of other punishments fit. mangus falling to chaos cause of this is the stupidest reason to fall to chaos, it was an easy fix.
what funnier is that Vulcan was there
And he was like shit, don't ask me what to do Magnus, Don't ask me
Fury of Magnus from scraps I read is dumb book. It dumbs down the characters to try tell readers Magnus made a continuous decision to join chaos. In reality ever since Leman invaded Prosepro Magnus has been backed into a corner talking to Russ would been no good Russ hasn’t listens to Magnus before why would he listen now. Neither would of fighting back just would made Magnus look like he’s a traitor. Magnus has also been a emotional bleeding heart with his decision only using he knowledge and not his non existent wisdom. I thought originally he signed his life way on prospero when used the book of Magnus in a emotional mistake to teleport his people away not realizing what it would cost. Instead I find out in video this watered down version of it happens where Magnus lives the warp for a thousand years of warp time becoming some renegade which I liked. What didn’t like how when finds his sons and rebuilds prospero he takes his entire legion to find his last piece of his soul the noble shard. He did so wouldn’t die cause if remember right he was slowly being drained of his energy to live without it. Then he decides instead just going to Terria himself he meats with Horus and joins him with his legion to get closer to his soul since apparently The Emperor has. For all the talk that Magnus goes on about loving he’s Legion and the memories of prospero the writers make him take them with him. In every other book Magnus self sacrifices himself for the good of whatever he’s trying protect even one time almost dying for ship of random civilians. It’s like Magnus couldn’t just astero project himself again in imperial palace and talk to his father about this like he’s done all his life when father wasn’t in the palace and it’s not like the protection from the palace was there anymore since Magnus broke it. When finally gets into the palace tho the poorly thought out way Malcador being the old piece garbage he is. Malcador tells Magnus he never needed his last piece of his soul and it was always apart of him. I thinking Magnus is literally coughing up blood loosing his grip on reality what are talking about you senile old man get back on your meds. Malcador proceeds then taunt Magnus like he’s asking to get his teeth punched , but probably thinks he’s either gonna win cause he choked Horus out or he’s gonna make Magnus feel bad if he kills him somehow. Malcador proceeds with the latter letting Magnus kill him somehow even tho Malcadors a Perpetual and Magnus wasn’t able to kill Vulkin who was a Perpetual. Magnus feels bad even tho Malcadors the person you should feel least bad for mercing with the fact Malcadors is where all the emperors worst Traits come from and I pretty sure Malcadors done some shady business and whipped out at least a hundred civilizations before he even met the emperor. When finally Magnus gets the throne the emperor pretty much locks Magnus in there with Vulcan and himself giving him some crooked probably cause Magnus made himself look like a dunce Traitor coming with the Traitors. The emperor basically says join me were killing your Legion there all have trash genetics and gonna die I get you a new toy legion son ; oh I’d say no then you die to Vulcan’s hammer. Then Vulcan’s goes being like “Magnus we recorded you crying 😭 in your palace like a baby you did everything wrong we totally would believed you if defended your self against the space even tho I Vulcan have killed thousands of worlds that either defended themselves against imperium for less or simply being different”. -Totally accurate Vulcan. Magnus being even more insulted by Vulcan smooth brain insults and emotional and the Emperor lack of any emotion for the last remnants for his people treating them like broken toys that need to be replaced makes Magnus furious for the other lack emotion these two are showing. Magnus pretty much auto says no and asks Vulcan would he be capable of just replacing his sons so easily and Vulcan says no. This is in point when hearing the lore this book and I like WTF 🤬. The Emperor doesn’t need to just kill Magnus’s sons he’s kept both the space wolves wulfen and Sangeous/ his sons with bird wings alive. Magnus sons may be slowly turning into unstable mutant tentacle monsters but doesn’t mean the emperor can just kill them he can least try keep them alive and just give Magnus the grey knights to slowly phase the old sons when they eventually need to be put down. The Emperor could of also just tried to cure them if Cul the Tech priest was able to make Primaris that barely affected by mutation the emperor could done something similar. Vulcan wasn’t helping either literally just criticizing Magnus. By the end of it if Vulcan were trapped in the same situation on Nocturne he pretty much admitted he would do a lot of the same actions as Magnus not all obviously he would up in a similar situation. Pretty much the end Magnus gets beat Pulp by Vulcan cause the Emperor once again is horrible leader that’s couldn’t figure a obvious solution. Magnus then I’d like f you dad in the most stupid way possible accepting tzeentch gift when he could just TPed out of there as soon as he saw there was no winning in the situation. The only reason I think he stayed was the emperor had sent men to kill Magnus sons anyway if said yes or no. Magnus didn’t have the book of Magnus on him , so could just TP his sons out so once again is forced in situation with no winning let him and his sons die or join tzeentch to live. Which he obviously does cause this pre written to have Magnus Join Tzeentch since models got to sell 💰 💴 💵 💰. I honestly think through lone wind misspelled recap of events Fury of Magnus should never existed and should just either been at end of Prosperous burns Magnus becomes a Demon prince in order to TP his sons originally away. Or just have Magnus become more Rengade if this wasn’t pre written to have a certain outcome it seemed like the book wanted to set up Magnus and his sons against the galaxy trying to help out. I really think this is book is disservice to Magnus character making him look like a spoiled child with imperium doing “nothing wrong” instead being a arrogant passionate Suto humanitarian who was born to be a killing machine for the imperium literally only made to power the golden throne. I conclusion I don’t Magnus did “nothing wrong” nor do I think he did “everything wrong” I just think he was to emotional of a Primarch that caused his own down fall in his ego filled vision to lead the imperium into the light out of ignorance against Psykers. If you read this thx for listing.
I misspelled so much in this please forgive my misspelling I kind of got wrapped up in a rant about Fury of Magnus I just had a lot thoughts about what didn’t like in that book. How it wrote the characters and the renegade Magnus thing that went no where.
Wasn't it revealed that deal was offered to a part of Magnus that flew off via Magnus' back break?
@@lordofshades9852 Not sure wasn't some older version of Magnus's soul if I am not mistaken? I remember that the thousand sons collected a majority of the parts of his Soul ,and put it together with that part. I remember that liking the quotes taken from the book ,and the lore videos discussing it. It really felt like a 180 from Magnus being a dude with a ego problem to it was always Magnus's fault in the end when sided with Tzeentch to save his legion or what the book implies himself ,and his values. I feel like the author heard that people liked him thought Leman was in the wrong ,and they said you can't have nice things TM GRIMDARK Magnus is evil for "40k standards" now always has.
The fool’s angst put a smile on even this archon’s face if only he hadn’t fallen to chaos then we could have simply laughed at this fool’s downfall BUT NO he had to embrace an unknown entity and now his rats crawl around in OUR webway
Is Arhemen as Skaven now? Because that would make a lot of sense
Suffer not the Xenos to live. Your people shall be brought to justice by the might of his Armies
Honestly, the moment that Magnus realizes he will never actualize the full potential of his fathers plan and how he lost his opportunity to Ascend. One of the most heartbreaking passages I’ve come across so far in the HH; just got to Nemesis. Like the part where the Flesh Change taking one of his sons and Azak is asking his Father for help, but Magnus just tells him “I can’t”, he knows the legion is lost and the only hope is for Araman to protect the Book of Magnus.
Writing this as I watch the video so I don’t know if you’re going to cover it, but I also thought it was really AWESOME when I realized that the entire point of the Enumerations was to abate the Flesh Change, when they get all hyped up and use their powers too heavily, inviting the Flesh Change.
finally, the chaos wizard gang.
(they love casting spells)
I love 1k sons hat as its pure Egyptian
Also ahriman is and always will be caked up
ahriman is persian tho 😎
Honestly, because of TTS, Manus is my favourite Parimarch. It made me want to check out the Thousand Sons. The Orks are still my favourite 40k faction though.
Magnu is your really smart stoner friend. Important meeting to decide the fate of what he does? Busts out a poem. Gets told not to do something? Does it anyway and breaks his dad's stuff etc.
It's not that magnus did nothing wrong, its that he eventually realized what he did wrong but by the time he understood how massively he screwed up during the burning of prospero it was far far to late for him to do anything but accept his fate
I think being a true thousand son is to never truly stop fucking up doing the right thing.
Remembering TTS: "Oh no... Nonononononononono, he's too cocky. He's *way* too cocky! He's not going to stop!"
He's so cocky he was turned into a Cock! As in a rooster...
I will say I felt like some of the bias did show through. The Emperor didn’t say “calm down with the psyker shanangians” but outright banned psychic use. For most legions that was fine but for the Thousand Sons that was bullshit. Its like if you told the White Scars they couldn’t use their bikes anymore or that the Night Lords weren’t allowed to skin people anymore; its kinda self sabotage.
But Magnus while bitter over it DID follow the rule as much as possible with only 2 exceptions. One is when Logar came to Magnus and attempted to convince him to contact the Chaos gods which Magnus took one look at him, told him to go fuck himself and then teleportes out of there (while leaving a hole in Lorgar’s rood)
The other however was the dumb one where he Kool Aid manned the Emperor’s psychik wall.
Regardless the Magnus did everything wrong, but I feel like some things intentionally fucked him over or were dickish towards him.
Magnus did everything wrong, but damn if he didn’t try to be the hero. He just fucked up beyond all repair.
Yep, Magnus and his sons; the noble and good yet inconceivably arrogant and stupid. On another note, I think I know someone who Magnus may have gotten some or all of those traits from...
Tbf to Magnus if the primarchs were warp entities before the big E brought them into physical form, that would mean both Magnus and big E thought they could control warp entities and failed
The thousand sons are my favorite legion. They have one of the best story cause they did good, they wanted to do good but magnus is totaly a moron. And what makes it great is that if you actually makes magnus better the legion loses its kind of character. They are self dellusioned super powered intellectual completly fool of themselves. Also what is cool is what the thousand son stood for. They stood for progress and acceptance of psycker and most of the galaxy just wasn't going to have that. So in the end we have a great tragic vilain with a noble cause gone horribly wrong. They just need to show a little more how 40k thousand sons have distance themselve from their past kindness and ethic (cause yeah with the salamanders they actually cared about civilians and people) to show how twisted and evil they are now.
the Ahriman books made me a lifelong Thousand sons fan. give em a read
Magnus: "Father, I can help!"
The Emperor: "Stop, there will be unforeseen consequences."
> Half the Legion dies.
Ahriman: "Father, I can help!"
Magnus: "Stop, there will be unforeseen consequences."
> Half the Legion dies
The thing is everyone thinks Magnus had free will, he only thought he did. He made a pack with the Gods before the heresy and yes he did resist them to an extent but so did Horus, Horus resisted them up until the Slaves of Darkness novel, but he was still their puppet. It makes a lot of his actions understandable, the incredible ego and hubris even though he was supposed to be the wisest Primarch. Also for people that say he broke the webway to save the Imperium, read Prospero Burns again, he told Ahriman 'If I do this spell it will show how useful psychic powers are and the Edict of Nikeae will be no more.'
*pact
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Magnus wasn't the only idiot at Prospero. Thanks for ensuring that Magnus's massive screwup couldn't be fixed, RUSS.
Keep in mind that in 40K, you don't need to be a psyker to be a sorcerer. So, a lot of the Thousand Sons sorcerers weren't even psykers on top of them having huge numbers of psykers.
So I just decided to start collecting Thousands Sons yesterday. They're definitely my favorite Chaos legion aesthetically.
Also the description of "they're so smart they loop back around to being stupid" is so accurate, but that's why I LOVE them.
I don't think they are "stupid". It's just Tzeentch is really good at making fools of everyone. He technically did the Imperium more damage than Peturabo breaching the castle walls via social engineering and outdid the Emperor by making him to literally sit it out.
The Emperor being forced to duel Horus, lose Malcador, Magnus and making him sit on the throne is ALL Tzeentch's doing. That is how crazy this interdimensional mollusk is.
Also technically all of the Psykers fed to the throne to power the Emperor to close said gate and light the astronomicon is ALSO his doing. The Imperium is losing potentially strong psykers daily because Tzeentch has his bets on the Emperor will never return.
What happened on Prospero is essentially the result of the Emperor’s laziness/apathy, Lemans’ bullheadedness and prejudice, and Magnus’ arrogance and incompetence with a dash of both Horus and Tzeentch being fuckwits and exacerbating the conflict to its most logical tragedy.
Personally I’m a Tzeentch stan out of all four Chaos Gods and the Thousand Sons are some of my favorites (I still love all four Chaos Gods though). Tzeentch and Thousand Sons kick massive ass. Magnus is an absolute goof ass boyfailure and I love him so much
The thing is that yes, you made a case for why he is dumb. But you did not make a case for why he is bad or at fault for what happened. For example he did get his magic basically banned but that was out of incompetence not hatred or treachery. He may be arrogant and stupid but that does not change that out of the traitors he is by far the best morally.
I love the Thousand Sons because they feel realistic and relatable to me specifically. The more I look into it, the more I think high intelligence is a massive liability. You can see everything for thousands of miles but not the dead drop right in front of you and like hell does the opinion of any of those short sighted dipshits matter, you can see Timbuktu from New York.
I, and everyone around me growing up thought I was a little tarded but, got my iq tested at 130 I was like oh, now my mom is really gonna think I'm just acting stupid
The debate on Magnus is simple: You're either on the side of the cool sorcerer, Angel boi and the level headed Riding conquerer man or, you're on the side of smelly man and the furry.
The best way I've seen it said is: Magnus did nothing wrong, but he didn't exactly do anything right either.
hold up, the Council of Nikaea was outlawing all psykers from the legions besidse astropaths and navigators (since you can't do space travel without them), and the emperor literally stated that if anyone uses psykers the legions gets wiped out like what happened to the lost legions. (also fucking rich of Leman to be against psykers, he and his rune priests).
Like Magnus does a lot wrong, but at least half the time was because the Emperor was an even bigger idiot.
The dementia music and aggressively unsure narration over the in depth lore of a table top game, the combination is brilliant
Man, I wanna see Magnus’ downfall dramatized in a 40k series.
"Magnus is a failure."
-Lion 'El Johnson
I feel like the Thousand Sons need to remember Ockham's razor more often. They're so obsessed with proving how big brain they are that the simplest answer feels beneath them. Cool aesthetic though
The burning of prospero is kinda hilarious, cause it's just the Emperor, Leman and Magnus competing who is the dumbest and anyone clear headed either doing nothing or working for Horus. The Emperor sending the worst primarch for the job of peacefully picking up Magnus. Leman being a rage filled murder hobo that had to be actually bailed out by the Custodes and Sister of Silence or else his legion would have been totally gang banged to death. And lastly Magnus hiding away in his tower pretending his problems will just go away if he ignores them. Just a complete clusterfuck of dummies.
I'll stand behind magnus decision to do nothing honestly
He just found out that his entire life he had been manipulated and played like a puppet by some being and was told it was inevitable that he would turn against the emperor and become its permanent play thing
So he responds with the only reasonable thing you can in that situation, "Cant manipulate me if I dont do anything" but he didnt count on watching his sons dying being so unbearable
As someone who's struggling with mental disorders, I have to admit I can see why Magnus wants to withdraw from everything after he fucked up, this is not me defending his dumb decisions btw
"magnus did everything wrong" why is it only magnus fucked up? russ fucked up infinitely worse by not killing horus but no one ever talks about that
The Thousand Sons are my favorite legion and I really enjoyed this video. "Hell is paved with good intentions" summed them well, at least before they fully embraced being evil cackling wizards. Magnus thought he knew best and it damned his whole legion. Ahriman thought he knew best as well, and yet here we are.
For me their sheer hubris and subsequent failure (I am NOT a skilled 40k player) is part of the fun. Aesthetically I prefer the 30k version of them the best, so they are all painted red with proper Heresy era glyphs and stuff.
Oh, Magnus... You had everything to succeed, and you ruined your own Legion far more than they mutated themselves. Well, like f-ing fther, like f-ing son I guess. x)
the views vs the likes on this vid speaks foe itself.............
MAGNUS DONE NOTHING WRONG
Knowledge of the Dunning Kruger Effect does not make a person less susceptible. Unfortunately it's quite the opposite. The greater a person's intelligence and the more fields they can assert mastery in; the more they will exhibit the Dunning Kreuger Effect at the low competency/high confidence peak.
For example. Celebrities talking politics. Scientists talking about science unrelated to their field (I'm looking at you Neal DeGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye). College Professors talking about anything. Anyone that calls themselves brokers or day traders talking about the economy.
By the same metric, it's the same reason while a diesel mechanic might say he doesn't know much and then proceed to give you the best advice you've ever heard in your entire life.
For Mr. Tyson, I only watched some of his videos but all I see is he talking about astrophysics, so could you please let me what kind of unrelated science that he talked about?
You’re underselling the dumbness of the Edict of Nikea by JUST a bit. Big E didn’t ask Magnus to rein in his psykers a little; he outright banned the Librarius in all Legions, preventing the use of any psychic powers. For the Sons, whose whole defining schtick was psychic power, that was intolerable. It’d be like telling the White Scars “No more bikes, m’kay?” It’s telling that the Edict was so stupid that the Lion pretty much immediately ignored it.
So yeah, Magnus is a big fuck up, but he learned from the best of them.
I like the thousand Sons alot because they are just mages in Powerarmour. The echochamber argument presented in this video does sound quite nice as an explenation why the thousand sons always fuck up.
From all I read Magnus was a big doofus and fucked so many things up. But the selfloathing and selfpity that he falls into is for me always nice to read
Magnus in a nutshell "Like fucking father like fucking son"
The council of Nicaea probably.
*Leman an Mortarion in suits and ties after presenting all of the facts and evidence*
"We rest our case."
*Magnus in shakespearien attire*
"Nay my brothers! Thou seest me as thine enemy! Thou callest me a witch! I am none of these things!"
*Magnus raises a recently flayed skull from the latest human sacrifice*
"To magic, or not to magic? That is the question!"
A femboy is in the heart not on how much of a gymbro you are, if you know you are a femboy you can become a femboy regardless of the gains one has.
You put out this video the day I start reading a thousand sons
Changer of fate indeed
The Dunning Kruger effect has nothing to do with intelligence. This is a complete misinterpretation of the effect, in a fairly ironic way. It doesn't matter how high or low your IQ is, it can happen to anyone, and does happen to everyone when stating a new hobby or something. The Dunning Kruger has to do with starting a new task you have never done before, a task like a hobby or profession. At first you literally know nothing about it so you think, let say woodworking, is very very hard and you cant do it. Then you look into it and watch a few how to videos and build a pretty good cutting board, a very nice cutting board in fact. Congrats you are now flooded with feel good chemicals that reward your brain for getting off your chair and doing something. You think, "wow that was easy to make this cutting board when I thought it was hard to do. That must mean other woodworking things I think are hard are actually easy. I'm going to make dovetailed inlaid music box with engravings and hidden hinges!" you proceed to fail horribly at making dovetails and inlays and make and ugly mess, this is the valley of despair, here you will learn there are levels to this ish and you better get gud if you want to make a decent dovetail inlay music box. Next you make a regular box with regular box joints, here you begin to understand the wood. Next you make a dovetail music box but realize that it will be years of practice before you can make a decent inlay anything and decide to use normal hinges. This is the Dunning Kruger effect and if you think it has anything to do with intelligence you are unintelligent.
My Banshees made their Warp flamers irrelevant. Good times!
They got that from their pops 😂
The more interesting questions isn't whether Magnus did anything wrong, it's whether he should be forgiven or not.
No. He is beyond forgiving. He destroyed the humanity's chance to avoid warp completly, forced Emperor to sit on the throne permanently.
@@Warmaster2001The last part was mostly Horus’s doing
Magnus reminds me of Charlie sheen. He's just "winning" regardless. You can shoot space magic from your brain man.
The D-K effect actually has a different scale and that graph often used for it more closely aligns with a similar albeit effect and intended for people at the very start of learning rather then across their career
Also for a long time preheresy they were kinda all rounders, unlike recently
The number of times I have to reference the Dunning-Kruger Effect at work is…hilariously sad.
One thing to remember about the council of Nikea and why Magnus was so unprepared is that he went into believing it would be based on even discourse and reason, so when Mortarion and Russ came at him as hard as they did, it put him on the backfoot and he had to kind of improvise to make his case.
And the Emperor didn't ask him to reign it in, he straight up banned psykana.
Not a Magnus defender, but we can't have the real conversation about Magnus and the Thousand Son's if people are going to oversimplify.
As a World Eater player, it's in my job description to dislike the Thousand Suns, but oh my Corpse Emperor is it so painfully depressing to see Magnus somehow blunder everything equally as hard as the Emperer did with Angron. Just so dissapointing to see all that potential go to waste with the spaghetti god.
I honestly feel bad for magnus, while yes, he did almost *everything* wrong, he tried fixing them, leading to *more* problems. In a mix of comedy and tragedy.
In a fascinating turn of events, I love them for the exact reasons you hate them.
Magnus, as a DND character, would max Intelligence but use Wisdom as a dump stat.
Good old Magnus. The Emperor didn’t seem all that broken up over Fulgrim, Mortarion, or Angron, but Magnus he damn well was. It is sort of amusing how many problems still exist because Magnus is a definitional midwit.