This is win no? Two videos, twice the money, twice the content. In all seriousness, I actually like videos like this. Revisiting something and having second impressions on it. Sometimes it allows the audience to see how a creator's views change and grow, or sometimes it allows a creator to expand on go into more detail on something they didn't before or even didn't think about. So yes a win.
The BoS is an interesting faction to me. People seem to forget that the BoS in Fo1 canonically assist the Vault Dweller in destroying the masters army and assisting human settlements fend of mutants, they re-introduced tech back into California allowing things like the NCR to grow and succeed. And that isn't also mentioning that they traded openly with the putside world and were just isolationist due to circumstance. The BoS in the first games are grey leaning to good but not indifferent.
And then they canonically get into a few slap fights with the NCR, nearly get wiped out, all showing that the days of being able to get your way with just a suit of power armor were over. But hey, suddenly they're back to full strength and are apparently stronger than the NCR for....reasons. What a coinkydink. Early versions of the BoS were great, but the later versions tend to get ex machinad into the series just because they're cool.
@@JuliusCheeser223 I'm skeptical that they were able to maintain any notable strength, considering they were forced into hiding for several decades. There was nothing to indicate that the Brotherhood had anything stronger than Chapters like those in the Mojave. Either way, their sudden return from being an incredibly weakened and isolated power, to being a juggernaut with advanced suits of power armor, squadrons of Vertibirds, airships, and an army in the span of 10-20 years requires a larger suspension of disbelief than I am capable of. Even the US army of today would be jealous of such logistical feats of strength.
@Chopstorm. Again, what we see with the West Coast chapters is very limited. The Prydwen is in the show. We see the East Coast link up with the West. The East Coast has had the ability to both manufacture and capture Enclave vertibirds and manufacturing plants. It's not impossible that they were able to make those vertibirds. In Fo2, the Shi and BoS ask you to steal vertibird schematics so they can manufacture their own. In Fo1, members of the BoS tell you they manufacture most if not all the weapons you see above ground. They trade them for supplies.
@@JuliusCheeser223 I don't think it's ever confirmed that the airship in the show is the Prydwen even if it looks like it. If it is that would make a Brotherhood ending or a Minutemen ending the canon ending to Fallout 4. I think the biggest issue with the BoS in the show is there needs more worldbuilding to explain how the BoS became the dominant faction on the West Coast considering that as recently as the events of New Vegas they were not considered a major faction and had, at best, mixed relations with the dominant NCR (depending whether a truce is made with the Mojave chapter or the chapter is destroyed). Some of these questions may be answered in season 2 since it appears like it will take place in the Mojave- though Bethesda may do for the show like they did with making it not matter what the canon ending to Fallout 2 is.
Wilzig's timing wasn't coincidentally good for Moldaver's plan, it was coincidentally disastrous. Dude recreated the cold fusion tech, injected the chip into his neck, and was just going to wait for a signal to quietly step out and vanish with a group of Moldaver's best NCR soldiers. It is the raid on Vault 33 that is the time-sensitive element. It was exceptionally vulnerable during the once-every-three-years trade with Vault 32. If she missed that window, she either waits another 3 years or finds another Vault-Tek exec? Not really options. The Vault is also better defended than it looks; the raider ambush is a short, messy, chaotic fight but it's long enough for her and two soldiers to grab a few hostages and then send a message that Hank can't ignore. Are raiders trustworthy? No. But dangle a big enough prize in front of them and they'll behave long enough. If the raiders won, they would have turned on her-- but she dipped out before they could. And then the raiders were not only defeated but taken alive, suggesting an overwhelming, coordinated counter-assault from the Vault 33 security personnel. So in ultimate bad timing fashion, Wilzig gets discovered by a colleague and has to bug out at precisely the same time that Moldaver is incommunicado in Vault 32, way ahead of schedule. There are other holes in her plan and a heavy dose of "if," but if Wilzig didn't have to escape into the wilds alone, her plan would have gone a helluva lot better than it did.
A logical explanation. I always believed that she hired the raiders to do this since they're expendable fodder and she can't afford to lose any of her NCR remnants. She need every one of her soldiers to protect the base for a possible BOS attack. Which didn't help in the end, she didn't factor in the Commonwealth BOS sending in their people. She didn't go out of her way to kill any of the Vaulties, she even told the captives to run, and left a bomb behind to seal 32 from 33 trapping the remaining raiders in 33. Raiders being who they are, those few raiders whom she left with could have had "accidents" before she left 32 for the wasteland.
Personally, regarding the black board, I like to keep in mind the saying 'Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.' I'd bet money that someone just got the dates wrong, and the decision to create a separate 'Fall of Shady Sands' event was considered cheaper short-term than doing VFX and ADR to fix the dates (as other allusions/foreshadowing to the nuking and 2277 are also in the show- it's not just the blackboard). Someone screwed up and crossed the wires of Fallout 3 and New Vegas' dates, when owning up and updating these things when ADR and VFX production for Season 2 would be the far more peaceable call. If Emil Pagliarulo can admit his mistakes with Fallout as of late (Jet and the Sole Survivor war criminal, anyone?), then the showrunners, Todd, and Jonah can too.
It's possible, they were so incompetent and lazy that they managed to mess up the title cards for the episodes, and then just stopped doing them. (The title card for episode 3 says "The Beginning" which is the title of the 8th and final episode, and then starting from 4 onwards the cards are just conspicuously absent altogether.)
If my experience with Highlander 2 is anything to go by, fans will re-edit a movie to make it incredibly less borked. Honestly could do the same here, mostly with the Board Meeting scene and portions of the ending.
When my partner and I were watching the finale we both rolled our eyes at the first instance of "war never changes" but thought that it was much more fitting the second time. Like it was within like 3 scenes of each other, the line itself is good, but you need to pick and choose. a more direct impact rather than a saturating barrage
Like I still like the show, but a big problem I think many had was that the fall of the NCR essentially entails going back to square one to the Bethesda games where they were more focused on living in the past and the wasteland part of fallout than actually developing a society. Fallout 1, 2, then NV felt like a progression of society, where the NCR has essentially gotten back a part of the old world, people aren’t worried about surviving, creating new things, having 9-5 jobs again, progress in the post apocalypse. Even if the BoS falls as well… we’re back at square one like a dog chasing its tail. The truth is Bethesda never really understood fallout, it feels less like an ocean and more like a puddle. Why is it that every game has to have the brotherhood in it? Jesus Christ, we now have 4 games with the Enclave in them, deathclaws and rad scorpions seem like the fit in more with a desert environment than the east coast, 3 games with family issues, etc. Bethesda essentially just took the superficial elements of the first 2 games and ran with them and I truly fear that any future entry will just be the same slop we got before.
Your take on the BoS is so good. Basically from people who has proper military training, modern education, with proper cause and morals became a hollow, power hungry organized cultists? It really peaked during Lyon's Brotherhood.
I had to go back and check the like to dislike ratio on the first review, and man, you got off *EASY* ! The first review was perfectly fine. You toed the line, and was as close to being fair to both sides as humanly possible. Have a second thumbs up, man, and keep it up.
While I actually like the show overall, I really do take issue with New California being reset back to a Fallout 1-esque state in less then two decades. Even with Shady Sands being destroyed, the NCR was made up of at least 5 states with several major cities. Even in a scenario where the Republic fractures, there would still be local governments and real factions. In short, it feels like they reset it just so they could get that "classic" wasteland feel that Bethesda also tends to fiend after. And this wouldn't be a problem if the show was set literally anywhere else in the country. Like if it was set in Seattle, or New York, etc. It really does feel like the series is stuck in the past, like a lot of modern media.
@@dedscene2521it absolutely can be, look it up! A lot of blacksmiths keep their iron hot by hammering it harder and striking in quicker succession. I don't know the details of it, but it has to do with transfer of energy and all that physics-based stuff.
@GUITARISTxxxx I am a blacksmith. No, that is not how you heat iron. You heat it in fire, and you strike it (while it's hot, hence the phrase) to form the metal into what you want. Yes, you get it to retain the heat longer by striking it, but it is losing heat the whole time. You can try a safe version of this with no smiting practice by taking an unheated piece of iron and strike repeatedly with a hammer. You will find that the iron will take on the same temperature as the area around (i.e. it doesn't change) but it will be dented and banged up and most likely unusable.
Massive fan of your work Grey! Your ability to transition from a settlement building video to this review is truly admirable and as a fan of this universe since Fallout 3, I loved the show and found this video exceptionally compelling.
I did notice you were the most negative of all the reviews I watched but I just assumed you had a higher standard than they do and all the points you raised are/were valid, keep up the great work!
I appreciate the second impressions, but to me the interviews felt like patching lore holes they didn't give much thought until addressed. I stand by my statement on your first review, This show is like fallout 4, its not trying to bring in the fans, but the widest audience possible. And I feel like your got your point across very well in your first impressions.
Another question is, why does everyone outside the vaults treat Muldaver as this uber-malicious force not to be reckoned with? Like, take the lady who was supposed to harbor the Enclave guy for instance, she practically threatens Lucy just for mentioning her name. If it's due to resentment towards the NCR and how it's Shady Sands chapter fell, why don't they mention that? The only malicious thing she does is the stuff with Vault 32/33, and even then, it was for a decent cause, as she needed the code from Lucy's dad to activate the cold fusion reactor, which ended up providing power throughout the Shady Sands region. Did i miss something? I also feel like there should have been some more talk about the NCR in general, or more involvement with them as a whole, as aside from Muldaver's crew, there's practically no other NCR soldiers or outposts throughout the entire show. You'd think that the faction would want to maintain control and keep the peace, as well as they could've, at least, especially after their capitol was nuked. A lot of it seems odd to me looking back. It's still a good show, and it's fun to talk about its strengths and shortcomings, but things get worse the more i think about it tbh.
I appreciate the revisit, however nothing wrong with your origional review. Dont try to please everyone. Its the internet and people are idiots and will never be happy.
Eh, I think he had a few takes that were a bit too hot off the press, and I appreciate the revisit with the benefit of time. Rushing something out resulted in a good review, but with some reasonable flaws.
I live and breath new vegas as you say, I hate bethesda "writing" and I kinda liked the show and I recomend it, my take is that it's a new story, does not destroy the already heavily retconned and screwed lore, like have you seen The Last Airbender live action series? It's just the same story but less, it's not awful but meh, this however is a new story and I'm just glad it is something fresh and also not dragon-ball-evolutionized.
The way I learned to appreciate Maximus, or at least not actively dislike him, was by seeing him as the type of PC who tends to skip through dialogue and just follow quest objectives, picking a different arc when his knight died. Like Lucy is the idealistic PC, Max is the PC who loves combat and rushes the main story.
I assumed that Cooper took his friend's body parts for food because they contain the serum that prevent him turning feral. And the fan-made Nuka Break has already shown how ghouls can turn feral. Without this silly serum idea.
Yeah honestly, ther are plenty of little thigns that tend to b silly in the show (I don't like how fallout is becoming the wacky post apocalyptic shooter), built the Ghoul serum is my biggest issue with the show, it did nit need to be introduced, I think Nuka-break did it best. Slowly going feral overtime only able to stay normal by having a strong mind once it starts happening.
There have been several videos where I got to the end and didn’t know for sure what your final opinion would be because your front-end analysis was so even handed and fair. I love that about your style - but you wouldn’t know that from the comments because I don’t usually comment or like. I should change that.
late to the party, two groups take part in the attack on 33, raiders and NCR, we see moldaver's two female body guards in the vault {28:33} and when Lucy is at the gates of the NCR outpost.
The only explanation I can think of behind the Ghoul Serum is that it's a prewar drug and, if you remember in Fallout 4, Hancock gets the same thing. And I quote, "Finally found this experimental radiation drug. Only one of its kind left, and only one hit. Oh man, the high was so worth it. Yeah, I'm living with the side effects, but hey, what's not to love about immortality?" He hasn't been to the west coast, or even central US, it could have been being produced on the west as well.
I never made the assumption that Shady Sands was hit with nuclear bombs. It was not radiated enough and the likely-hood of any survivors was very very small. Also the accuracy of the attack and the lack of any notable effect on the already blasted surroundings. Not to mention the hurdles involve with trying to smuggle in a nuclear device. My immediate thought was that it was something like Archimedes.
@@jimcalhoun361 Why, it is what is strongly implied by other plot points? The moronic board meeting flashback scene shows that vault tec for some reason has access to nuclear weapons, and dropped the first bombs that started the great war to "eliminate competition," why would the assumption then be that a massive explosion that wiped out an entire city, which was called upon by a vault tec executive, was caused by some other orbital weapon system that is never so much as hinted at in the show? This also wouldn't solve the issue of Shady Sands being moved several hundred miles to LA. The show also completely flip flops on issues with radioactivity, for example in the first 2 episodes with the raiders, we see lucy figure out them being raiders due to her "husband's" radioactivity, but there were multiple other scenes where both the raiders and other vault dwellers in proximity to them detect no radioactivity with their pipboys, which should be absolutely going off if lucy detects multiple rads just by pointing the detector in the general direction of the guy 10+ feet away.
With all the other retcons and errors the devs made I think its pretty obvious they just messed up the date. I'm not saying its impossible for the bombs have happened at a later date but its clear that the devs originally intended it to be 2277. The timeline board says 2277, the book in the nuked shady sands elementary school locker says 2276, Lucy's mom is believed to have "died/Starved" from a plague in 2277. The quarantine from the plague acts as perfect cover for Hanks family to be missing. Then there's Lucy's age to take into account. The game states she was six while outside vault, if that's 2277 then shes 25(27 irl) in present 2296, where as Max would be the same age(35 irl). If the nuke happened later at 2284 but Lucy was still outside the vault at 2277 then max is supposed to be about five years younger since I think the child actor was six or seven at the time of filming. Which is really bad casting because Max's Actor is almost ten years older than Lucy's. The way they talk in the final ep also seems to imply the nuke happened immediatly after hank took his children back so it seems unlikely this is the case. And finally if we are to presume Lucy was out of the vault at 2282 with the bomb dropping the same year then we run into even worse problems. Which now means Lucy's mother couldn't have "starved to death" in the plague and the quarantine couldn't be cover for them missing. Additionally Lucy tells us she had "10 years of cousin stuff" which with a 2277 date means it started at 15 but at 2282 means it started at 10. So I dont think I need to go into how that's problematic. It really just seems like the writers and Todd made a mistake and are now just retconing it out with the 2284 nuke date.
We don't know if it was the brotherhood of steel who destroyed the Institute we just know the institute and the railroad endings are not canon so it could be the brotherhood or the minutemen who destroyed the Institute
I doubt they will ever touch on it, but I'm guessing the 'canon' ending for 4 for future references is the Minuteman ending. It's the ending that allows all factions to survive, unless you actively choose to make an enemy of one or both, and is the ending that has a Commonwealth faction take down the long term enemies of the Commonwealth.
Honestly very surprised you didn't recognize that Ghoul was trying to spare his friend from turning feral.The cannibalism afterward was awful and unnecessary, though. Interesting to hear your explanation about Ghoul's deliberate dehumanization of people he believes must be his victims - hadn't considered that!
I Assumed the reason he ate his friend was becuase there was some leftover serum in his body. I mean if he was focused on just the meat aspect you would have thought he would have taken meat from the much healthier settlers he killed in filly, but the only person we see him eat from is another ghoul who we know had been taking the serum at least relatively recently..
I hate that this is the answer, but obviously anything to do with Moldaver requires season 2. If it was just 1 hanging thread I'd say sloppy writing. But there's so much still requiring an answer that I HAVE to believe she her importance has not ended and so much more is coming. I don't even think she's dead, I'd bet a bajillion dollars she comes back fully for season 2.
It's going to be cloning/synth tech or some weird Immortal Cabot thing. There's no way they don't have an interaction between her and Cooper, and she was /CLEARLY/ fucking Lucy's mom at some point pre-ghoulification, not having her interact more with Lucy feels like a travesty
I've played the games since the 90's and i was one of the few that looked forward to Fallout in first person. I adore all the fallout games from 3 on (including vegas) but prior to Bugthesda taking over the gIRP fallout games were the best...at the time. That said the show is a solid 8.5/10 for me, has all the proper references, the sets are insanely good, doesn't ruin the lore and is acted so well... In New Vegas you'll find a doctor who is working on a cure for going feral...i just thought the serum they were taking is a treatment derived from that line of research. Also, it's ridiculous to think he was the only one studying ferlism. There were other instance where ghouls had found being near specific equipment seemmed to hold the feral back. Point is, serum is plausible. The BOS from Fallout 1 and 2 were more religious in feel and the like you said, the shows BOS is in in the midst of trying to over correct for recent losses or changes within.
I think the show is an 8/10 overall. As a fallout fan who’s only played 4 and NV, I think the visual effects, characters (Maximus was ehh) and environment was great. But yeah the BOS is purely too evil for their sakes and they could’ve brought in people who know the lore better than Todd to help out.
No worries man, you are fine. As others noted you cannot please em all and trolls abound. Now, please please please continue the NV saga. It is soooo good
As someone who had strong disagreements with your original review (main one being your view of the BoS in the show; it feels extremely accurate to the vast majority of Fallout games and lore imo), I'm more than happy to tell you that you shouldn't ever feel the need to cater to anyone else's views or criticisms. Everyone has different opinions and viewpoints and that is entirely ok. Keep making great content. :)
I'm going to be honest, I don't think the NCR would've collapsed from the Mojave Campaign. It has its problems but outside the """""Vault-Tec"""" """"Nuke"""""" I dont think itd just collapse into total anarchy, probably be more.similar to revolutionary france and come out in a different state.
I agree The Ghoul was dehumanizing Lucy, its easier to sell her off when you think of her as an object to be used in trade. But he is also teaching her the harsh realities of the wasteland, trying to toughen her up because she will most likely be on the surface for the long haul. He's trying to knock that niceness and naivety out of her. Ignorance isn't bliss and being nice to everyone, when you don't know them can get you killed. Perfect example is when she and Max encountered those two fiends raiders. If Max wasn't there, she would have been killed. Her ignorance and niceness would have been the end of her. As much as I detest this next example, there may come a time for the ultimate form of survival, consuming a fellow human being. I didn't like that part of The Ghoul, but he taught her where to cut the best parts of the meat off on a human, cause ass jerky don't make itself. The complaining New Vegas fans seem to forget its mentioned in the game that the NCR are pushing their limits by being in the Mojave. As you mentioned you need to stabilize what you have before pushing for more and the NCR just wasn't doing that. Shady Sands was "falling" at that date on the chalkboard because they were biting off more than they can chew. Not to mentioned, like any government, they probably had corruption which helped the fall.
I didn't take your last video as overly critical. I did, however, find it a bit bland and lacking the depth and the sort of... "liberty informed" analysis I subscribed for. You have a knack for contextualizing things in a uniquely American framework that I really appreciate. You just "get it", and I really hope you continue incorporating that into your videos. Anyway, I had no intention of watching the show. But after reviews, I decided to, and boy was I impressed. Some small issues, sure. But considering what I've come to expect, this was a deeply satisfying home run for me.
60 seconds in and I already have to call you out. Im one of those who said most of the complaints were nitpicks on the last video. I have over a thousand hours in fallout 3 and 4 each and well over 500 in new vegas as well. You are very much mistaken in ascribing this opinion to people whove never played.
I feel pretty mid about Fallout 3 and 4, I love New Vegas and the show. The "retcons" with respect to New Vegas were taken wayyyy out of proportion IMO. First, the chalkboard timeline doesn't give a date for the bomb, just the "fall" of Shady Sands, which commonly means a decline or destabilization. Shockingly, this is exactly what the creators have said since. Second, if New Vegas went bust after the game, that would be extremely in keeping with the themes of the game: power struggles are rarely resolved cleanly. Overall, I appreciate that we finally have new Fallout content that is written competently. I honestly care very little about whether it got the lore right or wrong, the story was compelling and worth watching and adds to the overall franchise. I just wish I could play it 🤣 edit: spelling
I bought fallout 4 bc of the show tbh. I’ve watched one of my friends play 1000s of hours of all the games and played a lot of elder scrolls so after watching the show once I watched it like 8 more times and bought the game
My biggest problem with the Show, it turned Fallout even more into Itchy and Scratchy Land in a Mad Max setting with Borderlands humor. :( Ok and all the Dan Schneider fetish stuff is super weird. 😅
I just came back from watching some of your settlement building videos and some of your DLC review videos and in my opinion you are a more better rad king who posts more often keep up the good work man you going to be at 100K in no time
I'll take the compliment, but gonna have to disagree on the "better Radking" part. he actually gave me some good advice and information when I was getting started and is a genuinely good guy in my experience.
I thought it was a good show. Im not a super big fan when it comes to these games, so I know the show will have some inconsistencies in it, but you can not make everyone happy. I would definitely recommend it so people who like the game knowing that it does follow cannon events.
While I do respect your decision to revisit the show to see if you missed anything and to revise your review, you fint need to apologize or be hard on yourself just because the toxic crowd wanted to slam you for having an opinion. Sure, I didn’t agree with some of your criticisms or opinions in the review but I still respect your video and understood that everyone is going to have a different view on the show.
Xbox just got next gen FO4 update ... FINALLY oh and would have been nice if they gave Ron Perlman a camo .. live action not just a voice ... fingers crossed for season 2
I watched this video first, then watched the first one, and you seemed pretty objective to me. I dont really see where any misunderstanding came from. Saying game play sucks or the story sucks are two separate things. There may have been some assumptions, but none of us know, so who cares?
As far as why did she enlist raiders ? Maybe because she blames the vaults for Shady Sands and wants them to pay for that? Raiders still jeopardize her main mission so probably because it makes for an exciting first episode? I don’t know?
The show was a huge return to the franchise for me. I remember watching oxhorn when fallout 4 released as a 15 year old, and eventually playing fallout 4. That’s as far as I got before some light lore viewing on UA-cam at the end of my time in high school. Now nearly a half a decade later I’ve fixated on the franchise, consuming lore videos non stop and even started playing 76. This franchise has too much character, flare, and great story to put down. The show is an amazing gateway into that and I hope they use the show as a launchpad to setup a future game. Maximus turning into a future leader of the brotherhood that you interact with in game would be a phenomenal turn. I think they are giving the franchise one of the best video game adaptations of all time, especially in live action format.
The show runners explanation of Shady Sands is BULLSHIT. They totally screwed up and this is PR backtracking. Literally every excuse I've ever heard for this is totally stupid, not to mention all of the events surrounding it, including idiot's "kid in a fridge" incident. That's not the only major Screw up with Shady sands, because it's location is also totally wrong. Also showing prewar architecture from Shady Sands is a major problem that nobody seems to really address as well. I suspect when season 2 comes out they will have though of some silly plot devices to pretend they never screwed up and this is all "fanboi hysteria" or whatever, because nobody is capable of admitting they screwed up anymore. AKA retconning their own show to save face. There are way many more major plot problems with the show versus the game and it would take hours to cover, but at least you sort of touched on the brotherhood.
I only played Fallout 3 and on, the show was good but it's a bit too on the nose with game references, especially the non-stop use of music that was in the radio stations. The iron man arm jets also sucked major balls, I mean what's wrong with normal jetpacks?
Most people review something from watching it once, don't think that alone would be enough to say your original review was bad. Reviews are a tricky bean, as you say people just complain for the fun/sake of it. I only really disagree with a review if the reviewer inserts inaccurate or illogical arguments, otherwise its an opinion piece that should be appreciated for what it is. That's not to say a review following a subsequent watch isn't highly welcome! As a fan of Bethesda's works I find the fever against them obnoxious, but I understand when those (and my own) disagreements with BGS' actions are justified. Companies always need to do better.
The Shady Sands "mishap" I honestly believe was Todd trolling all the NV fanboys dead set on Bethesda being jealous of NV and setting out to decanonize it, which is a claim that's been around for as long as NV has existed. The reason I say that is because the only way I can see to interpret that timeline showing the "fall of Shady Sands" and the mushroom cloud as the same event would be by jumping to conclusions. Seriously, every event had an arrow pointing to a different event that happened later, except that one, which had an arrow pointing to the same event? Sorry, that just makes no sense as a conclusion unless you're expecting and looking for something to indicate NV is not canon.
AZ,NV,and CA are abundant in natural resources in our world from the gold and oil reserves found in CA in our world to the vast copper mines of AZ. So in my opinion the reason America was expanded from east to west was not due to resources but in my opinion trade routes and a sense of the American ideal of manifest destiny.
its not super in depth as it could have been but when Lucy is in the super duper market and the ghoul named Martha trying to so herself from going feral does show a ghoul turning feral. wanting to get a video out because it is popular for views is not a explanation for your first video
I liked the show quite a bit and I excuse the strange decisions (Bethesda decisions) because I don't expect we'll be getting anything better than this from the franchise like it or not this is Fallout now. We can cry about what they did to the NCR and this missed potential but what potential really? There was only potential if we were getting New Vegas II which we're not at least not for like 7 years at which point nobody at obsidian will be from interplay or the original Obsidian team and we'll just have to hope it's good so really what's the difference at this point? I'm putting my faith in the show, the weird things about Moldaver hopefully will be explained why vault-tec has infinite nukes will hopefully be explained, the enclave timeline will hopefully be explained, etc. If it's not what are we going to say? Fallout is bad now? That already happened, this is the best we're getting.
"There's not a lot of resources in the Southwest." Flat out incorrect. On the surface, it seems that way because it's a desert, but there are resources there. I believe that NCR wasn't *doomed* , especially if they *win* the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam. They would need a leader less hawkish than Kimball, though, and direct the country to stabilizing itself. Again though, NCR's fall had literally *nothing to do with that* in the show as far as we're shown, and that's where the problem lies. NCR didn't collapse under its own weight, it was obliterated by a brand new character that came out of nowhere. Also, your point about the Fall is accurate. IMO, I think that "the fall and the nuke were two different things" is cope that Bethesda grabbed onto when they realized their mistake. It's far from the only grievous continuity error that this show has produced, and if they *were* meant to be separate events, then why not put "shady sands nuked" and a date over their little mushroom cloud drawing? It doesn't add up.
I liked the show but it wasn’t perfect which was acceptable I’ve played all the games except 1 and 2 but it had so many bad things but it was still good
With all the other retcons and errors the devs made I think its pretty obvious they just messed up the date. I'm not saying its impossible for the bombs have happened at a later date but its clear that the devs originally intended it to be 2277. The timeline board says 2277, the book in the nuked shady sands elementary school locker says 2276, Lucy's mom is believed to have "died/Starved" from a plague in 2277. The quarantine from the plague acts as perfect cover for Hanks family to be missing. Then there's Lucy's age to take into account. The game states she was six while outside vault, if that's 2277 then shes 25(27 irl) in present 2296, where as Max would be the same age(35 irl). If the nuke happened later at 2284 but Lucy was still outside the vault at 2277 then max is supposed to be about five years younger since I think the child actor was six or seven at the time of filming. Which is really bad casting because Max's Actor is almost ten years older than Lucy's. The way they talk in the final ep also seems to imply the nuke happened immediatly after hank took his children back so it seems unlikely this is the case. And finally if we are to presume Lucy was out of the vault at 2282 with the bomb dropping the same year then we run into even worse problems. Which now means Lucy's mother couldn't have "starved to death" in the plague and the quarantine couldn't be cover for them missing. Additionally Lucy tells us she had "10 years of cousin stuff" which with a 2277 date means it started at 15 but at 2282 means it started at 10. So I dont think I need to go into how that's problematic. It really just seems like the writers and Todd made a mistake and are now just retconing it out with the 2284 nuke date.
What i can say is....stop excusing for your own conclusions :) . I had a whole wall of text ready as i am a fallout 1 day one player and know the lore but then re-thought and just wanted to keep it half way short. I did not get rid of the idea that the series tries to re-write previously broken lore and reconnect it in a working manner. I know where they broke lore in fallout 3 and fallout 4, and i saw exactly where they changed things in the series. But i am with tim cain at this point. Time went by, the series went to 3d, the franchise owner changed, the customer base changed dramatically. This is for sure no excuse for the absolute poor writing in fallout 4 and the boring 95% kill all fetch stuff quests there, but maybe the reconnections in the series show a point where bethesda could turn and improve on. Maybe i am too optimistic (yes, i saw what happened with starfield) but i simply hope it gets better again. The series started a bit flawed the first 2 episodes (holy shit was that yao guai cgi ugly) but then improved up to the point where i liked it.
Here's my suggestion for your next video: watch through the show again and play, "What Perks Did That Character Take" for certain scenes. Kind of like how often the people with whom I watched the show pointed out Lucy's Speech check fails.
@Theegreygaming Nice. By the way, I wanted to give my appreciation for your take on the BOS. I didn't like them in the show, either but couldn't quite articulate why (I've played all of the games and the live-action vibe just felt "off" to me). You captured it very well and succinctly.
I wanna eventually do a Video talking about the show and aspects... but I'll give some thoughts (now that Iv seen it for myself) on what I think... 1. I still dislike the Vault-Tec conference room meeting... Though I get some of those people being there; RobCo and West-Tek are both major operators in Industry and for the government...why was Big MT and REPCONN there? Where was General Atomics? Poseidon Energy? Watts Electronics? ...especially Poseidon Energy, though, since they were in on the Enclave project by the U.S. Government! 2. I think too many people reacted to the destruction of Shady Sands... but didnt react to the survival of the NCR! All I was hearing when the show first came out was "They destroyed Shady Sands and the NCR!", except...they didnt. The NCR in California was still alive, existing partially as a remnant. But there was no indication that Vault-dick had launched nukes at New Reno, Arroyo, the Boneyard, or any of the other hotspots of NCR function. They cut one head off a Hydra...and yeah, thats devastating; but I expect that we'll discover the NCR Forces still alive...maybe now THEY are the remnants, rather then the BOS in the Mojave Wasteland...but it'll be interesting to see. I do think, as Tim had said at some point, that the NCR would likely fall at some point... they were tested by expansion, Caesar's Legion, and supply lines... but I think what was hard, was that they were taken down swiftly, off-screen, by "Player 3 has entered the game" kinda thing. Especially since, the NCR had a friendly relationship with the Vaults in their area (for the most part). 3. Everything around the Brotherhood, I dislike... but... I think the depiction of the Brotherhood was, frankly, disguisting... but as you said, this actually seems like the logical perversion of what Roger Maxson started. It hits the most, with the fact that the BOS seemingly couldn't even outfit their Knights with energy weapons when going into a combat zone (to fight the NCR Remnants at the Observatory); which seriously makes me think that the BOS has fallen so much, that the energy weapons they DID show, may have been completely out of Cells and Batteries and Cores... If thats true...then them getting their hands on the Cold Fusion technolgy, would spell doom...because they aren't smart enough to understand or remove it! 4. What the f**k were those flagbearers doing? ...no, seriously, what the f**k? That was just distracting in the middle of a battle scene... Is that a thing I forgot from the older games? 5. I actually found the dynamic between Lucy's 3 main people, interesting... So, She's focused on her Dad, Maldavey, and Cooper/The Ghoul...it was so interesting seeing, from her perspective, her opinion of those three people, but watch by the end of the series those people and those views shift... Trust her Dad... Help the Ghoul... Kill Maldavey... Each one of those motives is true, and each one of those people is true...but by the end of the series, those dont line up with those people anymore. If the Fallout games had this much writing commited too them by Bethesda, they'd be making REALLY good games... There's more, but this is getting long... hopefully I explained myself...
On a second watch, I still really love it. I really don't care about preserving the timeline and lore 100%. The ghoul viles are dumb, but my only real complaint is Maximus. He's a mush mouth, unrelatable character and has no chemistry or any real bonding experience with Lucy by the end of the season. I hope they write him out.
They won't. He's going to be the new scion for the Woke Brotherhood, just like lucy will led the Woke reincarnation of the NCR. Watch that shit happen.
I love Fallout. The setting, the feel, the gallows humor, the occasional glimmers of hope, and the fact that inevitably this hope gets plowed over*. I have repeatedly played every main series game since the first, and will continue to do so until I drop dead. Yet despite all that, I doubt I would be counted a 'fan' by many if not most 'true' fans. I love the lore, but I don't go out of my way to track it, pursue it, and certainly not reconcile it. That's just how I am with all my favorite series (Star Wars, Star Trek, Shadowrun, Fallout, and Marvel comics). I've always left that to other people. The show felt like Fallout to me, and that's enough. It's always been enough. Shockingly, that's really the only measuring stick I use for things I love. (And why half of everything Star Wars and Marvel related that has come out in the past decade or so I will never rewatch). * "Everyone wants to save the world. They just can't agree how." is gaining traction as one of my favorite Fallout lines ever written.
I have no issues that the NCR as a faction officially fell apart, but I DO have a problem with how all those settlements that *used* to be part of the NCR also seem irrelevant/disappeared so that we can get back to the scrapyard themepark paradigm. Humans with a much lower technology level assembled their various tribes into full nations long before the bombs dropped. The post NCR California would be so much more interesting with a backdrop of conflicting former NCR member settlements. You might even call them, to borrow a term from another popular franchise whose layered and complex world eventually fell victim to lazy simplification, *successor states*. The world of Fallout *should* show us what new civilizations are trying to assert themselves. I appreciate this Brotherhood being douches but that's about it. This does not seem like the logical continuation of the original Brotherhood but rather the next level of Arthur Maxson's idiocy...odd considering we're on the wrong coast for it. I'm just tired of Bethesda's inability to satisfyingly expand/grow the setting in meaningful ways.
My biggest complain about the show is that the mainstory turns out to be so nonsensical in the last two episodes, there are otherwise some nitpicks here an there but overall the look and feel of the show is correct. Regarding Mr House, I am not sure if we got the date the meeting happens, as repconn is a separate entity there, this could have been before House acquired them, aka years before the bombs fell.
I hate to be this person, but most issues people have can be explained. But for the show to explain it, the season would've been 10 episodes, half-filler, and full of exposition dumps. The show...well, shows us what it can, as in 'show don't tell'. Part of Fallout's draw is the mystery of events, not knowing exactly how things happened but sifting through the aftermath. Just like the games, they're giving us pieces of multiple stories, and we get to put them together and discuss them. But this can, and most likely will, bite them in the ass since shows need to eventually get on with it and close up loose ends. They gave us breadcrumbs, but if the fans think they lead to a cookie and the show reveals an unflavored muffin, fans are gonna be pissed. Thank you for reading my TED talk on my addiction to copium! 😂
Wow, really? You just buy what they said about the chalkboard, with no question, but you also assume they did it to make fans mad? What? Why? Why would they do that? Why not consider that they lied about it, after the fact, and the original error is from some chalkboard artist they hired, who doesn't even know what Fallout is? Really a chalk board matters? Why? It makes no sense to give any Fs over a chalkboard artist mistake.
This show makes no sense that has no direction oh boy season 2 is going to be a disaster. Stand by your opinion Don't back down and don't let the sheep deter your creativity of criticism of this garbage of a show. Tha is Todd
lol Tod is just messing with all the NV fanboys because nobody likes them. I will hardcore stand by the fact that NV is the best fallout game. That’s my opinion. But the elitism that some NV fans have is so grinding and annoying. The game was developed in 18 months and it shows. It’s not perfect and the other games are just fine.
This show was an "oooohhh look power armor" canonical atrocity. But lore isn't important on this channel. Good thing thats not what any of us subbed for
As a whole, the first season of Fallout is a failure to me. Too many plot holes and bad writing and too much DEI. I'll still watch season 2 hoping for better, but if they keep screwing up and retconning the canon (lore), I'll stop watching all together. Oh, and like always, another sttlement needs your help, I'll mark it on your map.
The show sucked, I liked it at first then it just threw the lore out the window at the end. Like brotherhood of steel acting like they never had cold* fusion technology when in New Vegas they literally stated they have bunkers that have cold fusion generators... The whole vault tech situation was just annoying, we see AS THE BOMBS FELL IN FALLOUT 4, they showed the freezing tech was in the EXPERIMENTAL PHASE. And the house lore is annoying because it shows he was TOLD they would drop the bombs. Even if he did the calculations the fact he knew they were coming just takes away from he's genius as a character. Not to mention they show him also throwing ideas at the end, it's hard to see because they cut away so fast back and forth but he does throw a fuss with everyone else at the end. Also vault techs plan is just plain stupid , "let's wait till everything on the surface dies, ya know cause like 200+ years proved that it's gonna happen one day" They killed off the NCR off screen, brush passed it, and just throw a bone at the end. Even the main "villain" was hyped up THE WHOLE SHOW only to die like a whimpering dog at the end... Who the fuck likes this half baked shit show? Get some damn standards already
Fusion generators or COLD FUSION generators? These two things, are NOT the same thing, at all, even a little bit. Cold fusion is limitless power, that never needs the gas tank refilled.
@@Lordoftherobe Did they actually call it cold fusion though, in NV? In most of the games they just call it fusion. What the show is depicting, is NOT the generator you see in all the games. This needs no fuel, making it limitless. Did you see how she lit up the whole city? In the game it would take thousands of generators to do that.
@@Tijuanabill That's not how cold fusion works, it's a hypothetically possible means of power generation where the heat used in conventional vapor loop turbines is produced by getting atomic nuclei to fuse at room temperatures, fusion is currently possible in the real world, but it requires the assistance of immense heat and pressure, generated either by building sized magnet arrays and extremely high intensity lasers, or specially designed multi-stage nuclear weapons. The former requires too much power and resources to be able to generate more energy than is used in the fusion regulation process, on top of being unbelievably expensive and requiring very rare fuels like tritium, and the latter is obviously only practical in enhancing weapon yields. All fusion power sources require fuel, in the form of materials to fuse, generally lighter but often hard to acquire (like tritium). Also a large coal power plant could easily power that many lights, this isn't some unique function of the magical maguffin powered generator moldaver created, it is also ridiculous that beyond the idea that some random enclave escapee would have this magical free power maguffin for some unknown reason, is the notion that the electrical grid of a city which was nuked to annihilation, stood 230 years, and was nuked again, would still have an intact enough electrical grid for the lights to come on even if the generator did somehow work.
Your original review was more accurate, because now you're having to fill in for the writers. When you have to do that, it's a bad show. Not that anyone needs to have questions or disagreements about this, though, because we were told what the theme of the show was, right out of the gate. It's about haves vs have-nots. That's not what Fallout was principally about, so yes, it overturns lore. And then they crammed that dumbshit Woke theme in every place they could. Why did Moldaver attack Vault 33 during a wedding? To kill privileged people, of course. You could have just asked ANTIFA. Why do people think Vault Dwellers are privileged, or even know of them 200 years later? Because we need to have the lower class resenting the upper class, of course. This theme continues, with the Brotherhood needing to be separated into haves and have-nots. Now they have an upper class of knights that abuses their squires for no other given or good reason. It is not the logical following of Lyons' or Maxson's policies for that to happen. Why wouldn't Maxson just take a more active role in saving humanity, for instance? Because the writers needed to subvert society for their dumb Woke trope, so there's a justification for Maximus rebelling later. Thus, they tell you the Brotherhood is in decline when it is demonstrably more powerful than it ever was, but with a new mission of domination that it never possessed before. You can tell they're evil, too, because they are also woefully incompetent. All that bullshit was just written in out of nowhere, lore-wise. Then we've got Vault-Tec destroying the whole world for profit, somehow, opposed only by a Communist. If that didn't tell you that this show was Woke, crap, nothing will. VT's motivations make no sense, including the motivation to destroy all competition and then rebuild society with competition. House should have laughed in their fucking faces, right there. You don't have to be a genius to see how dumb the plan was, you just have to be above the IQ level of cabbage soup. All this nonsense is the setting for Moldaver's quest to get cold fusion so she can........do what? Light up a dead city? She KNOWS the Enclave, the Brotherhood, and Vault-Tec will come after her. The latter JUST nuked her ass for having a nice city. But that doesn't matter to the theme, because she dies a martyr for the have-nots. That's seriously the ONLY plot message, like she read the script and planned for it. It's TERRIBLE writing, terrible character development, the same crap we see from movies and shows nobody watches any more, but because it was packaged as Fallout, some audiences will do the writing for the studio, making up stuff to fill in the gaps. If the writers straight telling you what the theme was, and then watching them implement that theme doesn't convince you, look at what they picked for a model society - the "Wokest" Vault they could make up. Vault 4 is the communal paradise where everyone is included, like raiders and wastelanders of the variety that Vault 33 was JUST shown as being unable to rehabilitate. But of course, the Woke are not actually nice people. They wrote the show, and that's why NCR had to be nuked, while they lay the blame on Vault-Tec. That IS the kind of shit they would actually do IRL, so we get it in a show. They couldn't very well have a better society forming in the mold of old United States, could they? Why would anyone want their Communist paradise if what we already have works? Ultimately, the NCR will be rebuilt, but you won't recognize it, just like every other faction. You'll see New Vegas first, obviously destroyed by House's greed, since that's the only way this kind of writing can go, and maybe some people will learn, then. You were more correct to begin with.
Yep, agreed wholeheartedly, this show is a blatantly political subversion of the series, which also retcons and overrules the west coast with the garbage aesthetics of the east, and destroys all of the factions that used to be there, leaving only bastardized remnants that fit bethesda's childishly simple faction tropes, and the eternal wasteland where nothing is taken seriously and people don't even clean the 200 year old skeletons out of their closets.
Gotta agree on this. What made NV just great is because they knew how to write politics better in the FALLOUT world not OUR world politics. I mean, while it all looks good and aesthetically pleasing Fallout is WAY more than what the show BARLEY covered. Honestly writers nowadays are more interested in putting in a more political agenda than writing meaningful stories anymore...
@@theunknownartist521 Yeah, New Vegas was a lot more subtle about it in a good way, it was discussing IRL ideals, but it did so in a fashion that made them feel like logical developments of the game world, each with their own strengths and shortcomings. You could argue for and against each, and there were degrees of nuance to all of them. It also built off what came before in a constructive way, instead of just ignoring or destructively retconning things to try and railroad through whatever the writers felt the message should be. Among the most important things though, is the fact that New Vegas took itself seriously, sure there were the odd jokey things, and the whole wild wasteland selection of stuff, but the game didn't constantly make a joke out of itself, undermining the stakes at every turn with lines like "get that jelly mold outta here" and out of place oldie tracks.
Every time you comment on the comments, you are doing it wrong. Let them say what they want. Who cares? Does addressing crazy people help your channel? Why? How? Please explain.
I always thought the term "War, war never changes" was used because the (why) people have war that has never changed? Fallout 1: Super Mutants fighting the Vault Dwellers over the resource of "pure" humans. (Might be a stretch) Fallout 2: Replace Super Mutants with Enclave taking all the pure Arroyo tribals & Vault Dwellers. (A resource) Fallout 3: Clean Wah-uh. (A resource) Fallout New Vegas: The electricity that the Hoover Dam brings. (A resource) Fallout 4: Beryllium Agitator. (The whole story is all about Nate and how each faction relates to Nate, wouldn't consider synths a resource though). But when the TV show used the tag line "war, war never changes.. Is capitalism really a resource? How did Vault-tec predict that currency was going to change into bottles caps & how is Vault-tec going to eliminate all the factions if they used all the nukes pre-war? You can't outlast everyone depending on how much resources you held previously. What, the customers are just going the vault dwellers themselves between over 140 vaults when you have terrible ones like Vault 77 because most vaults are going to be killed off through natural selection do to personal ideas of what they think that'll make the best society? (I'm bad at paraphrasing what Barb said to convince the other head honchos, what they can do with the vaults)..
Clearly their assumption was that nothing would survive. They don't care about money, or what form it takes, they care about the power that money buys. They want to be in charge. If the world is only them, then they are in charge. At least, that is what their thinking is.
@@punkdallas1646 I can't justify their logic, because it doesn't make any sense, without more information, that we don't have. As for how they would differ from the Enclave, who knows? They could be tied together all along, for all we know. They could be one and the same, in reality. We don't know who was pulling the strings at Vault-tec. It could very well be The Enclave.
@@Tijuanabill I know we only got season 1 to off of.. Still can't believe show creator Jonathan Nolan said on a IGN interview "we don't have any documentation on why Maldaver is over 200 years old but we'll figure out something by the next season" when he could've just simply said watch season 2 to find out. (Yes I understand for Hank, Betty & Stephanie had cryo pods but it's really hard for me to just assume Maldaver too). Then some people started filling in the gaps for the writers. (But isn't it weird how the production crew somewhat changes starting around episode 4 or episode 6)? Is it strange that I didn't view Vault-Tec as being "Evil" before the TV show? I've only played 3, New Vegas & 4 yet the different vaults to me didn't seem like "let the best vault win" more like "if they're successful we can use them for the future type of situation"?
@@punkdallas1646 I mean...this is some serious hair splitting. What difference does it make actually, what they say outside of the show? The canon is the show, not these interviews. Being shocked they don't know yet, is like fundamentally not understanding that scripts are not written before they are written. Yeah, some details they don't know yet, because those decisions have not been made yet. Why is that strange to you? No, it isn't weird to me that the production crew changed, because I have no idea that even happened, and would never know anything about something like that, at all ever. I don't sit around reading about production crews, and I didn't even know that existed, that people do. I don't even really know what that is, but I definitely don't' care to find out. OBVIOUSLY Moldaver is from Vault 31. Like...are you for real here? She isn't a ghoul, and she is from the past, so with the rules of this IP in place, that means she has been popsickled. If they dream up some new thing, then fine. But for now there are only two choices, and she clearly isn't a ghoul. Like....duh. I haven't said duh in like 40 years but...its the only thing that fits here.
Peak Brotherhood take. The through line here is very easy to see. Maxson's Brotherhood in Fallout 4 quickly becomes this.
This is win no? Two videos, twice the money, twice the content. In all seriousness, I actually like videos like this. Revisiting something and having second impressions on it. Sometimes it allows the audience to see how a creator's views change and grow, or sometimes it allows a creator to expand on go into more detail on something they didn't before or even didn't think about. So yes a win.
The BoS is an interesting faction to me. People seem to forget that the BoS in Fo1 canonically assist the Vault Dweller in destroying the masters army and assisting human settlements fend of mutants, they re-introduced tech back into California allowing things like the NCR to grow and succeed. And that isn't also mentioning that they traded openly with the putside world and were just isolationist due to circumstance. The BoS in the first games are grey leaning to good but not indifferent.
And then they canonically get into a few slap fights with the NCR, nearly get wiped out, all showing that the days of being able to get your way with just a suit of power armor were over.
But hey, suddenly they're back to full strength and are apparently stronger than the NCR for....reasons. What a coinkydink. Early versions of the BoS were great, but the later versions tend to get ex machinad into the series just because they're cool.
@Chopstorm. The chapter we see is most likely from farther up West and link up with the East Coast chapters
@@JuliusCheeser223 I'm skeptical that they were able to maintain any notable strength, considering they were forced into hiding for several decades. There was nothing to indicate that the Brotherhood had anything stronger than Chapters like those in the Mojave.
Either way, their sudden return from being an incredibly weakened and isolated power, to being a juggernaut with advanced suits of power armor, squadrons of Vertibirds, airships, and an army in the span of 10-20 years requires a larger suspension of disbelief than I am capable of. Even the US army of today would be jealous of such logistical feats of strength.
@Chopstorm. Again, what we see with the West Coast chapters is very limited. The Prydwen is in the show. We see the East Coast link up with the West. The East Coast has had the ability to both manufacture and capture Enclave vertibirds and manufacturing plants. It's not impossible that they were able to make those vertibirds. In Fo2, the Shi and BoS ask you to steal vertibird schematics so they can manufacture their own. In Fo1, members of the BoS tell you they manufacture most if not all the weapons you see above ground. They trade them for supplies.
@@JuliusCheeser223 I don't think it's ever confirmed that the airship in the show is the Prydwen even if it looks like it. If it is that would make a Brotherhood ending or a Minutemen ending the canon ending to Fallout 4. I think the biggest issue with the BoS in the show is there needs more worldbuilding to explain how the BoS became the dominant faction on the West Coast considering that as recently as the events of New Vegas they were not considered a major faction and had, at best, mixed relations with the dominant NCR (depending whether a truce is made with the Mojave chapter or the chapter is destroyed). Some of these questions may be answered in season 2 since it appears like it will take place in the Mojave- though Bethesda may do for the show like they did with making it not matter what the canon ending to Fallout 2 is.
Wilzig's timing wasn't coincidentally good for Moldaver's plan, it was coincidentally disastrous. Dude recreated the cold fusion tech, injected the chip into his neck, and was just going to wait for a signal to quietly step out and vanish with a group of Moldaver's best NCR soldiers.
It is the raid on Vault 33 that is the time-sensitive element. It was exceptionally vulnerable during the once-every-three-years trade with Vault 32. If she missed that window, she either waits another 3 years or finds another Vault-Tek exec? Not really options. The Vault is also better defended than it looks; the raider ambush is a short, messy, chaotic fight but it's long enough for her and two soldiers to grab a few hostages and then send a message that Hank can't ignore. Are raiders trustworthy? No. But dangle a big enough prize in front of them and they'll behave long enough. If the raiders won, they would have turned on her-- but she dipped out before they could. And then the raiders were not only defeated but taken alive, suggesting an overwhelming, coordinated counter-assault from the Vault 33 security personnel.
So in ultimate bad timing fashion, Wilzig gets discovered by a colleague and has to bug out at precisely the same time that Moldaver is incommunicado in Vault 32, way ahead of schedule. There are other holes in her plan and a heavy dose of "if," but if Wilzig didn't have to escape into the wilds alone, her plan would have gone a helluva lot better than it did.
A logical explanation. I always believed that she hired the raiders to do this since they're expendable fodder and she can't afford to lose any of her NCR remnants. She need every one of her soldiers to protect the base for a possible BOS attack. Which didn't help in the end, she didn't factor in the Commonwealth BOS sending in their people. She didn't go out of her way to kill any of the Vaulties, she even told the captives to run, and left a bomb behind to seal 32 from 33 trapping the remaining raiders in 33. Raiders being who they are, those few raiders whom she left with could have had "accidents" before she left 32 for the wasteland.
Personally, regarding the black board, I like to keep in mind the saying 'Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.'
I'd bet money that someone just got the dates wrong, and the decision to create a separate 'Fall of Shady Sands' event was considered cheaper short-term than doing VFX and ADR to fix the dates (as other allusions/foreshadowing to the nuking and 2277 are also in the show- it's not just the blackboard).
Someone screwed up and crossed the wires of Fallout 3 and New Vegas' dates, when owning up and updating these things when ADR and VFX production for Season 2 would be the far more peaceable call. If Emil Pagliarulo can admit his mistakes with Fallout as of late (Jet and the Sole Survivor war criminal, anyone?), then the showrunners, Todd, and Jonah can too.
It's possible, they were so incompetent and lazy that they managed to mess up the title cards for the episodes, and then just stopped doing them. (The title card for episode 3 says "The Beginning" which is the title of the 8th and final episode, and then starting from 4 onwards the cards are just conspicuously absent altogether.)
The Observatory battle gave me flashbacks to when I destroyed the Prydwen with the Minutemen and the BoS launched their last assault at the Castle
Like many of Bethesda's products, good foundation but needs mods to make it better. Anyone know how to do that for a TV show?
If my experience with Highlander 2 is anything to go by, fans will re-edit a movie to make it incredibly less borked. Honestly could do the same here, mostly with the Board Meeting scene and portions of the ending.
When my partner and I were watching the finale we both rolled our eyes at the first instance of "war never changes" but thought that it was much more fitting the second time. Like it was within like 3 scenes of each other, the line itself is good, but you need to pick and choose. a more direct impact rather than a saturating barrage
Like I still like the show, but a big problem I think many had was that the fall of the NCR essentially entails going back to square one to the Bethesda games where they were more focused on living in the past and the wasteland part of fallout than actually developing a society. Fallout 1, 2, then NV felt like a progression of society, where the NCR has essentially gotten back a part of the old world, people aren’t worried about surviving, creating new things, having 9-5 jobs again, progress in the post apocalypse.
Even if the BoS falls as well… we’re back at square one like a dog chasing its tail. The truth is Bethesda never really understood fallout, it feels less like an ocean and more like a puddle. Why is it that every game has to have the brotherhood in it? Jesus Christ, we now have 4 games with the Enclave in them, deathclaws and rad scorpions seem like the fit in more with a desert environment than the east coast, 3 games with family issues, etc. Bethesda essentially just took the superficial elements of the first 2 games and ran with them and I truly fear that any future entry will just be the same slop we got before.
Your take on the BoS is so good. Basically from people who has proper military training, modern education, with proper cause and morals became a hollow, power hungry organized cultists? It really peaked during Lyon's Brotherhood.
I had to go back and check the like to dislike ratio on the first review, and man, you got off *EASY* ! The first review was perfectly fine. You toed the line, and was as close to being fair to both sides as humanly possible. Have a second thumbs up, man, and keep it up.
While I actually like the show overall, I really do take issue with New California being reset back to a Fallout 1-esque state in less then two decades. Even with Shady Sands being destroyed, the NCR was made up of at least 5 states with several major cities. Even in a scenario where the Republic fractures, there would still be local governments and real factions. In short, it feels like they reset it just so they could get that "classic" wasteland feel that Bethesda also tends to fiend after. And this wouldn't be a problem if the show was set literally anywhere else in the country. Like if it was set in Seattle, or New York, etc. It really does feel like the series is stuck in the past, like a lot of modern media.
Don't strike while the iron is hot, strike it enough to make it hot
That's not how one heats iron
wtf does this even mean
@@dedscene2521it absolutely can be, look it up! A lot of blacksmiths keep their iron hot by hammering it harder and striking in quicker succession. I don't know the details of it, but it has to do with transfer of energy and all that physics-based stuff.
@GUITARISTxxxx I am a blacksmith. No, that is not how you heat iron. You heat it in fire, and you strike it (while it's hot, hence the phrase) to form the metal into what you want. Yes, you get it to retain the heat longer by striking it, but it is losing heat the whole time. You can try a safe version of this with no smiting practice by taking an unheated piece of iron and strike repeatedly with a hammer. You will find that the iron will take on the same temperature as the area around (i.e. it doesn't change) but it will be dented and banged up and most likely unusable.
Massive fan of your work Grey! Your ability to transition from a settlement building video to this review is truly admirable and as a fan of this universe since Fallout 3, I loved the show and found this video exceptionally compelling.
thanks for the kind words!
I did notice you were the most negative of all the reviews I watched but I just assumed you had a higher standard than they do and all the points you raised are/were valid, keep up the great work!
I appreciate the second impressions, but to me the interviews felt like patching lore holes they didn't give much thought until addressed.
I stand by my statement on your first review, This show is like fallout 4, its not trying to bring in the fans, but the widest audience possible.
And I feel like your got your point across very well in your first impressions.
exactly!! Retconning in interviews. Johnthan is certainly not in the same league as Christopher, that is for certain.
Another question is, why does everyone outside the vaults treat Muldaver as this uber-malicious force not to be reckoned with? Like, take the lady who was supposed to harbor the Enclave guy for instance, she practically threatens Lucy just for mentioning her name.
If it's due to resentment towards the NCR and how it's Shady Sands chapter fell, why don't they mention that? The only malicious thing she does is the stuff with Vault 32/33, and even then, it was for a decent cause, as she needed the code from Lucy's dad to activate the cold fusion reactor, which ended up providing power throughout the Shady Sands region. Did i miss something?
I also feel like there should have been some more talk about the NCR in general, or more involvement with them as a whole, as aside from Muldaver's crew, there's practically no other NCR soldiers or outposts throughout the entire show. You'd think that the faction would want to maintain control and keep the peace, as well as they could've, at least, especially after their capitol was nuked.
A lot of it seems odd to me looking back. It's still a good show, and it's fun to talk about its strengths and shortcomings, but things get worse the more i think about it tbh.
I appreciate the revisit, however nothing wrong with your origional review. Dont try to please everyone. Its the internet and people are idiots and will never be happy.
Eh, I think he had a few takes that were a bit too hot off the press, and I appreciate the revisit with the benefit of time. Rushing something out resulted in a good review, but with some reasonable flaws.
I live and breath new vegas as you say, I hate bethesda "writing" and I kinda liked the show and I recomend it, my take is that it's a new story, does not destroy the already heavily retconned and screwed lore, like have you seen The Last Airbender live action series? It's just the same story but less, it's not awful but meh, this however is a new story and I'm just glad it is something fresh and also not dragon-ball-evolutionized.
The way I learned to appreciate Maximus, or at least not actively dislike him, was by seeing him as the type of PC who tends to skip through dialogue and just follow quest objectives, picking a different arc when his knight died. Like Lucy is the idealistic PC, Max is the PC who loves combat and rushes the main story.
I see them as macs
I assumed that Cooper took his friend's body parts for food because they contain the serum that prevent him turning feral.
And the fan-made Nuka Break has already shown how ghouls can turn feral. Without this silly serum idea.
Yeah honestly, ther are plenty of little thigns that tend to b silly in the show (I don't like how fallout is becoming the wacky post apocalyptic shooter), built the Ghoul serum is my biggest issue with the show, it did nit need to be introduced, I think Nuka-break did it best. Slowly going feral overtime only able to stay normal by having a strong mind once it starts happening.
There have been several videos where I got to the end and didn’t know for sure what your final opinion would be because your front-end analysis was so even handed and fair. I love that about your style - but you wouldn’t know that from the comments because I don’t usually comment or like. I should change that.
with how much the brotherhood changes between games it would be cool to see a civil war between the east and west coast
late to the party, two groups take part in the attack on 33, raiders and NCR, we see moldaver's two female body guards in the vault {28:33} and when Lucy is at the gates of the NCR outpost.
The only explanation I can think of behind the Ghoul Serum is that it's a prewar drug and, if you remember in Fallout 4, Hancock gets the same thing. And I quote, "Finally found this experimental radiation drug. Only one of its kind left, and only one hit. Oh man, the high was so worth it. Yeah, I'm living with the side effects, but hey, what's not to love about immortality?"
He hasn't been to the west coast, or even central US, it could have been being produced on the west as well.
If Shady Sands was bombed in 2177 then the year would be under the mushroom cloud event like every other example on the timeline
I never made the assumption that Shady Sands was hit with nuclear bombs. It was not radiated enough and the likely-hood of any survivors was very very small. Also the accuracy of the attack and the lack of any notable effect on the already blasted surroundings. Not to mention the hurdles involve with trying to smuggle in a nuclear device. My immediate thought was that it was something like Archimedes.
@@jimcalhoun361 Why, it is what is strongly implied by other plot points? The moronic board meeting flashback scene shows that vault tec for some reason has access to nuclear weapons, and dropped the first bombs that started the great war to "eliminate competition," why would the assumption then be that a massive explosion that wiped out an entire city, which was called upon by a vault tec executive, was caused by some other orbital weapon system that is never so much as hinted at in the show? This also wouldn't solve the issue of Shady Sands being moved several hundred miles to LA. The show also completely flip flops on issues with radioactivity, for example in the first 2 episodes with the raiders, we see lucy figure out them being raiders due to her "husband's" radioactivity, but there were multiple other scenes where both the raiders and other vault dwellers in proximity to them detect no radioactivity with their pipboys, which should be absolutely going off if lucy detects multiple rads just by pointing the detector in the general direction of the guy 10+ feet away.
With all the other retcons and errors the devs made I think its pretty obvious they just messed up the date. I'm not saying its impossible for the bombs have happened at a later date but its clear that the devs originally intended it to be 2277. The timeline board says 2277, the book in the nuked shady sands elementary school locker says 2276, Lucy's mom is believed to have "died/Starved" from a plague in 2277. The quarantine from the plague acts as perfect cover for Hanks family to be missing. Then there's Lucy's age to take into account. The game states she was six while outside vault, if that's 2277 then shes 25(27 irl) in present 2296, where as Max would be the same age(35 irl). If the nuke happened later at 2284 but Lucy was still outside the vault at 2277 then max is supposed to be about five years younger since I think the child actor was six or seven at the time of filming. Which is really bad casting because Max's Actor is almost ten years older than Lucy's. The way they talk in the final ep also seems to imply the nuke happened immediatly after hank took his children back so it seems unlikely this is the case. And finally if we are to presume Lucy was out of the vault at 2282 with the bomb dropping the same year then we run into even worse problems. Which now means Lucy's mother couldn't have "starved to death" in the plague and the quarantine couldn't be cover for them missing. Additionally Lucy tells us she had "10 years of cousin stuff" which with a 2277 date means it started at 15 but at 2282 means it started at 10. So I dont think I need to go into how that's problematic. It really just seems like the writers and Todd made a mistake and are now just retconing it out with the 2284 nuke date.
@@satomonster568 They definitely didn't drop the bombs. China did. It's why "no one was ready"
@@satomonster568 China definitely dropped the bombs. No one was ready, even vault tech
1:25 Man, I really wish we could still see dislikes… one of the worst changes UA-cam has made in recent memory, and that’s including YT Shorts!
Man I love your videos.
I love that you love them. :)
We don't know if it was the brotherhood of steel who destroyed the Institute we just know the institute and the railroad endings are not canon so it could be the brotherhood or the minutemen who destroyed the Institute
I doubt they will ever touch on it, but I'm guessing the 'canon' ending for 4 for future references is the Minuteman ending. It's the ending that allows all factions to survive, unless you actively choose to make an enemy of one or both, and is the ending that has a Commonwealth faction take down the long term enemies of the Commonwealth.
Honestly very surprised you didn't recognize that Ghoul was trying to spare his friend from turning feral.The cannibalism afterward was awful and unnecessary, though. Interesting to hear your explanation about Ghoul's deliberate dehumanization of people he believes must be his victims - hadn't considered that!
I Assumed the reason he ate his friend was becuase there was some leftover serum in his body. I mean if he was focused on just the meat aspect you would have thought he would have taken meat from the much healthier settlers he killed in filly, but the only person we see him eat from is another ghoul who we know had been taking the serum at least relatively recently..
Maan, don't try to please anybody but yourself. Fuck all of us lmao
This is the most honest comment on any video ever! I second it
I hate that this is the answer, but obviously anything to do with Moldaver requires season 2. If it was just 1 hanging thread I'd say sloppy writing. But there's so much still requiring an answer that I HAVE to believe she her importance has not ended and so much more is coming. I don't even think she's dead, I'd bet a bajillion dollars she comes back fully for season 2.
It's going to be cloning/synth tech or some weird Immortal Cabot thing. There's no way they don't have an interaction between her and Cooper, and she was /CLEARLY/ fucking Lucy's mom at some point pre-ghoulification, not having her interact more with Lucy feels like a travesty
26:50 Oh, many things for sure, but one thing I know for certain: War, War Never Changes......
NPC
I've played the games since the 90's and i was one of the few that looked forward to Fallout in first person. I adore all the fallout games from 3 on (including vegas) but prior to Bugthesda taking over the gIRP fallout games were the best...at the time. That said the show is a solid 8.5/10 for me, has all the proper references, the sets are insanely good, doesn't ruin the lore and is acted so well...
In New Vegas you'll find a doctor who is working on a cure for going feral...i just thought the serum they were taking is a treatment derived from that line of research. Also, it's ridiculous to think he was the only one studying ferlism. There were other instance where ghouls had found being near specific equipment seemmed to hold the feral back. Point is, serum is plausible.
The BOS from Fallout 1 and 2 were more religious in feel and the like you said, the shows BOS is in in the midst of trying to over correct for recent losses or changes within.
I think the show is an 8/10 overall.
As a fallout fan who’s only played 4 and NV, I think the visual effects, characters (Maximus was ehh) and environment was great. But yeah the BOS is purely too evil for their sakes and they could’ve brought in people who know the lore better than Todd to help out.
No worries man, you are fine. As others noted you cannot please em all and trolls abound. Now, please please please continue the NV saga. It is soooo good
working on episode 6 already
@@Theegreygaming coffee pot is sitting next to the fire ring waitin
As someone who had strong disagreements with your original review (main one being your view of the BoS in the show; it feels extremely accurate to the vast majority of Fallout games and lore imo), I'm more than happy to tell you that you shouldn't ever feel the need to cater to anyone else's views or criticisms. Everyone has different opinions and viewpoints and that is entirely ok. Keep making great content. :)
I'm going to be honest, I don't think the NCR would've collapsed from the Mojave Campaign. It has its problems but outside the """""Vault-Tec"""" """"Nuke"""""" I dont think itd just collapse into total anarchy, probably be more.similar to revolutionary france and come out in a different state.
I agree The Ghoul was dehumanizing Lucy, its easier to sell her off when you think of her as an object to be used in trade. But he is also teaching her the harsh realities of the wasteland, trying to toughen her up because she will most likely be on the surface for the long haul. He's trying to knock that niceness and naivety out of her. Ignorance isn't bliss and being nice to everyone, when you don't know them can get you killed. Perfect example is when she and Max encountered those two fiends raiders. If Max wasn't there, she would have been killed. Her ignorance and niceness would have been the end of her. As much as I detest this next example, there may come a time for the ultimate form of survival, consuming a fellow human being. I didn't like that part of The Ghoul, but he taught her where to cut the best parts of the meat off on a human, cause ass jerky don't make itself. The complaining New Vegas fans seem to forget its mentioned in the game that the NCR are pushing their limits by being in the Mojave. As you mentioned you need to stabilize what you have before pushing for more and the NCR just wasn't doing that. Shady Sands was "falling" at that date on the chalkboard because they were biting off more than they can chew. Not to mentioned, like any government, they probably had corruption which helped the fall.
I didn't take your last video as overly critical. I did, however, find it a bit bland and lacking the depth and the sort of... "liberty informed" analysis I subscribed for. You have a knack for contextualizing things in a uniquely American framework that I really appreciate. You just "get it", and I really hope you continue incorporating that into your videos.
Anyway, I had no intention of watching the show. But after reviews, I decided to, and boy was I impressed. Some small issues, sure. But considering what I've come to expect, this was a deeply satisfying home run for me.
I've loved the fallout franchise since fallout 3. I loved the show. It has a couple flaws, but I went into it wanting to like it.
I like the TV show, I am waiting for Season 2
60 seconds in and I already have to call you out. Im one of those who said most of the complaints were nitpicks on the last video. I have over a thousand hours in fallout 3 and 4 each and well over 500 in new vegas as well. You are very much mistaken in ascribing this opinion to people whove never played.
I feel pretty mid about Fallout 3 and 4, I love New Vegas and the show.
The "retcons" with respect to New Vegas were taken wayyyy out of proportion IMO. First, the chalkboard timeline doesn't give a date for the bomb, just the "fall" of Shady Sands, which commonly means a decline or destabilization. Shockingly, this is exactly what the creators have said since. Second, if New Vegas went bust after the game, that would be extremely in keeping with the themes of the game: power struggles are rarely resolved cleanly.
Overall, I appreciate that we finally have new Fallout content that is written competently. I honestly care very little about whether it got the lore right or wrong, the story was compelling and worth watching and adds to the overall franchise. I just wish I could play it 🤣
edit: spelling
I bought fallout 4 bc of the show tbh. I’ve watched one of my friends play 1000s of hours of all the games and played a lot of elder scrolls so after watching the show once I watched it like 8 more times and bought the game
Good job on explaining Fall and Decline. That has been something I've been tell ppl, along with using the same example
My biggest problem with the Show, it turned Fallout even more into Itchy and Scratchy Land in a Mad Max setting with Borderlands humor. :(
Ok and all the Dan Schneider fetish stuff is super weird. 😅
I just came back from watching some of your settlement building videos and some of your DLC review videos and in my opinion you are a more better rad king who posts more often keep up the good work man you going to be at 100K in no time
I'll take the compliment, but gonna have to disagree on the "better Radking" part. he actually gave me some good advice and information when I was getting started and is a genuinely good guy in my experience.
I thought it was a good show. Im not a super big fan when it comes to these games, so I know the show will have some inconsistencies in it, but you can not make everyone happy. I would definitely recommend it so people who like the game knowing that it does follow cannon events.
While I do respect your decision to revisit the show to see if you missed anything and to revise your review, you fint need to apologize or be hard on yourself just because the toxic crowd wanted to slam you for having an opinion.
Sure, I didn’t agree with some of your criticisms or opinions in the review but I still respect your video and understood that everyone is going to have a different view on the show.
Xbox just got next gen FO4 update ... FINALLY oh and would have been nice if they gave Ron Perlman a camo .. live action not just a voice ... fingers crossed for season 2
I watched this video first, then watched the first one, and you seemed pretty objective to me. I dont really see where any misunderstanding came from. Saying game play sucks or the story sucks are two separate things. There may have been some assumptions, but none of us know, so who cares?
As far as why did she enlist raiders ? Maybe because she blames the vaults for Shady Sands and wants them to pay for that? Raiders still jeopardize her main mission so probably because it makes for an exciting first episode? I don’t know?
Great way to end video
Any comment on the update? Did it fix settlement issues? Did settlement creation change? Did settlements get better? SHOULD WE SETTLE???
The show was a huge return to the franchise for me. I remember watching oxhorn when fallout 4 released as a 15 year old, and eventually playing fallout 4. That’s as far as I got before some light lore viewing on UA-cam at the end of my time in high school. Now nearly a half a decade later I’ve fixated on the franchise, consuming lore videos non stop and even started playing 76. This franchise has too much character, flare, and great story to put down. The show is an amazing gateway into that and I hope they use the show as a launchpad to setup a future game. Maximus turning into a future leader of the brotherhood that you interact with in game would be a phenomenal turn.
I think they are giving the franchise one of the best video game adaptations of all time, especially in live action format.
The show runners explanation of Shady Sands is BULLSHIT. They totally screwed up and this is PR backtracking. Literally every excuse I've ever heard for this is totally stupid, not to mention all of the events surrounding it, including idiot's "kid in a fridge" incident. That's not the only major Screw up with Shady sands, because it's location is also totally wrong. Also showing prewar architecture from Shady Sands is a major problem that nobody seems to really address as well. I suspect when season 2 comes out they will have though of some silly plot devices to pretend they never screwed up and this is all "fanboi hysteria" or whatever, because nobody is capable of admitting they screwed up anymore. AKA retconning their own show to save face. There are way many more major plot problems with the show versus the game and it would take hours to cover, but at least you sort of touched on the brotherhood.
They knew people didn't know how to read a time line.
I only played Fallout 3 and on, the show was good but it's a bit too on the nose with game references, especially the non-stop use of music that was in the radio stations. The iron man arm jets also sucked major balls, I mean what's wrong with normal jetpacks?
Most people review something from watching it once, don't think that alone would be enough to say your original review was bad. Reviews are a tricky bean, as you say people just complain for the fun/sake of it. I only really disagree with a review if the reviewer inserts inaccurate or illogical arguments, otherwise its an opinion piece that should be appreciated for what it is.
That's not to say a review following a subsequent watch isn't highly welcome!
As a fan of Bethesda's works I find the fever against them obnoxious, but I understand when those (and my own) disagreements with BGS' actions are justified. Companies always need to do better.
The Shady Sands "mishap" I honestly believe was Todd trolling all the NV fanboys dead set on Bethesda being jealous of NV and setting out to decanonize it, which is a claim that's been around for as long as NV has existed.
The reason I say that is because the only way I can see to interpret that timeline showing the "fall of Shady Sands" and the mushroom cloud as the same event would be by jumping to conclusions. Seriously, every event had an arrow pointing to a different event that happened later, except that one, which had an arrow pointing to the same event? Sorry, that just makes no sense as a conclusion unless you're expecting and looking for something to indicate NV is not canon.
AZ,NV,and CA are abundant in natural resources in our world from the gold and oil reserves found in CA in our world to the vast copper mines of AZ. So in my opinion the reason America was expanded from east to west was not due to resources but in my opinion trade routes and a sense of the American ideal of manifest destiny.
its not super in depth as it could have been but when Lucy is in the super duper market and the ghoul named Martha trying to so herself from going feral does show a ghoul turning feral. wanting to get a video out because it is popular for views is not a explanation for your first video
I liked the show quite a bit and I excuse the strange decisions (Bethesda decisions) because I don't expect we'll be getting anything better than this from the franchise like it or not this is Fallout now. We can cry about what they did to the NCR and this missed potential but what potential really? There was only potential if we were getting New Vegas II which we're not at least not for like 7 years at which point nobody at obsidian will be from interplay or the original Obsidian team and we'll just have to hope it's good so really what's the difference at this point? I'm putting my faith in the show, the weird things about Moldaver hopefully will be explained why vault-tec has infinite nukes will hopefully be explained, the enclave timeline will hopefully be explained, etc. If it's not what are we going to say? Fallout is bad now? That already happened, this is the best we're getting.
"There's not a lot of resources in the Southwest."
Flat out incorrect. On the surface, it seems that way because it's a desert, but there are resources there. I believe that NCR wasn't *doomed* , especially if they *win* the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam. They would need a leader less hawkish than Kimball, though, and direct the country to stabilizing itself.
Again though, NCR's fall had literally *nothing to do with that* in the show as far as we're shown, and that's where the problem lies. NCR didn't collapse under its own weight, it was obliterated by a brand new character that came out of nowhere.
Also, your point about the Fall is accurate. IMO, I think that "the fall and the nuke were two different things" is cope that Bethesda grabbed onto when they realized their mistake. It's far from the only grievous continuity error that this show has produced, and if they *were* meant to be separate events, then why not put "shady sands nuked" and a date over their little mushroom cloud drawing? It doesn't add up.
I liked the show but it wasn’t perfect which was acceptable I’ve played all the games except 1 and 2 but it had so many bad things but it was still good
It's funny the BOS in the show doesn't have sex education but they do have gender education. I'm not mad I just think it's funny.
With all the other retcons and errors the devs made I think its pretty obvious they just messed up the date. I'm not saying its impossible for the bombs have happened at a later date but its clear that the devs originally intended it to be 2277. The timeline board says 2277, the book in the nuked shady sands elementary school locker says 2276, Lucy's mom is believed to have "died/Starved" from a plague in 2277. The quarantine from the plague acts as perfect cover for Hanks family to be missing. Then there's Lucy's age to take into account. The game states she was six while outside vault, if that's 2277 then shes 25(27 irl) in present 2296, where as Max would be the same age(35 irl). If the nuke happened later at 2284 but Lucy was still outside the vault at 2277 then max is supposed to be about five years younger since I think the child actor was six or seven at the time of filming. Which is really bad casting because Max's Actor is almost ten years older than Lucy's. The way they talk in the final ep also seems to imply the nuke happened immediatly after hank took his children back so it seems unlikely this is the case. And finally if we are to presume Lucy was out of the vault at 2282 with the bomb dropping the same year then we run into even worse problems. Which now means Lucy's mother couldn't have "starved to death" in the plague and the quarantine couldn't be cover for them missing. Additionally Lucy tells us she had "10 years of cousin stuff" which with a 2277 date means it started at 15 but at 2282 means it started at 10. So I dont think I need to go into how that's problematic. It really just seems like the writers and Todd made a mistake and are now just retconing it out with the 2284 nuke date.
You should review the new CC content next. The Enclave quest "Echoes of the past" looks interesting.
To me, any show that gets worse the more you think about it is bad. FO4 has many issues for that reason as well.
the chalk board is crazy It showed me that too much of this world has no reading comprehension.
What i can say is....stop excusing for your own conclusions :) . I had a whole wall of text ready as i am a fallout 1 day one player and know the lore but then re-thought and just wanted to keep it half way short. I did not get rid of the idea that the series tries to re-write previously broken lore and reconnect it in a working manner. I know where they broke lore in fallout 3 and fallout 4, and i saw exactly where they changed things in the series. But i am with tim cain at this point. Time went by, the series went to 3d, the franchise owner changed, the customer base changed dramatically. This is for sure no excuse for the absolute poor writing in fallout 4 and the boring 95% kill all fetch stuff quests there, but maybe the reconnections in the series show a point where bethesda could turn and improve on. Maybe i am too optimistic (yes, i saw what happened with starfield) but i simply hope it gets better again. The series started a bit flawed the first 2 episodes (holy shit was that yao guai cgi ugly) but then improved up to the point where i liked it.
Here's my suggestion for your next video: watch through the show again and play, "What Perks Did That Character Take" for certain scenes.
Kind of like how often the people with whom I watched the show pointed out Lucy's Speech check fails.
well it probably won't be my next video, but I like that... definitely going into the idea bucket.
@Theegreygaming
Nice. By the way, I wanted to give my appreciation for your take on the BOS. I didn't like them in the show, either but couldn't quite articulate why (I've played all of the games and the live-action vibe just felt "off" to me). You captured it very well and succinctly.
I wanna eventually do a Video talking about the show and aspects... but I'll give some thoughts (now that Iv seen it for myself) on what I think...
1. I still dislike the Vault-Tec conference room meeting...
Though I get some of those people being there; RobCo and West-Tek are both major operators in Industry and for the government...why was Big MT and REPCONN there? Where was General Atomics? Poseidon Energy? Watts Electronics? ...especially Poseidon Energy, though, since they were in on the Enclave project by the U.S. Government!
2. I think too many people reacted to the destruction of Shady Sands... but didnt react to the survival of the NCR!
All I was hearing when the show first came out was "They destroyed Shady Sands and the NCR!", except...they didnt. The NCR in California was still alive, existing partially as a remnant. But there was no indication that Vault-dick had launched nukes at New Reno, Arroyo, the Boneyard, or any of the other hotspots of NCR function. They cut one head off a Hydra...and yeah, thats devastating; but I expect that we'll discover the NCR Forces still alive...maybe now THEY are the remnants, rather then the BOS in the Mojave Wasteland...but it'll be interesting to see. I do think, as Tim had said at some point, that the NCR would likely fall at some point... they were tested by expansion, Caesar's Legion, and supply lines... but I think what was hard, was that they were taken down swiftly, off-screen, by "Player 3 has entered the game" kinda thing.
Especially since, the NCR had a friendly relationship with the Vaults in their area (for the most part).
3. Everything around the Brotherhood, I dislike... but...
I think the depiction of the Brotherhood was, frankly, disguisting... but as you said, this actually seems like the logical perversion of what Roger Maxson started. It hits the most, with the fact that the BOS seemingly couldn't even outfit their Knights with energy weapons when going into a combat zone (to fight the NCR Remnants at the Observatory); which seriously makes me think that the BOS has fallen so much, that the energy weapons they DID show, may have been completely out of Cells and Batteries and Cores... If thats true...then them getting their hands on the Cold Fusion technolgy, would spell doom...because they aren't smart enough to understand or remove it!
4. What the f**k were those flagbearers doing?
...no, seriously, what the f**k? That was just distracting in the middle of a battle scene... Is that a thing I forgot from the older games?
5. I actually found the dynamic between Lucy's 3 main people, interesting...
So, She's focused on her Dad, Maldavey, and Cooper/The Ghoul...it was so interesting seeing, from her perspective, her opinion of those three people, but watch by the end of the series those people and those views shift...
Trust her Dad...
Help the Ghoul...
Kill Maldavey...
Each one of those motives is true, and each one of those people is true...but by the end of the series, those dont line up with those people anymore. If the Fallout games had this much writing commited too them by Bethesda, they'd be making REALLY good games...
There's more, but this is getting long... hopefully I explained myself...
On a second watch, I still really love it. I really don't care about preserving the timeline and lore 100%. The ghoul viles are dumb, but my only real complaint is Maximus. He's a mush mouth, unrelatable character and has no chemistry or any real bonding experience with Lucy by the end of the season. I hope they write him out.
They won't. He's going to be the new scion for the Woke Brotherhood, just like lucy will led the Woke reincarnation of the NCR. Watch that shit happen.
@@arcdecibel9986 Touch grass
I love Fallout. The setting, the feel, the gallows humor, the occasional glimmers of hope, and the fact that inevitably this hope gets plowed over*. I have repeatedly played every main series game since the first, and will continue to do so until I drop dead. Yet despite all that, I doubt I would be counted a 'fan' by many if not most 'true' fans. I love the lore, but I don't go out of my way to track it, pursue it, and certainly not reconcile it. That's just how I am with all my favorite series (Star Wars, Star Trek, Shadowrun, Fallout, and Marvel comics). I've always left that to other people.
The show felt like Fallout to me, and that's enough. It's always been enough. Shockingly, that's really the only measuring stick I use for things I love. (And why half of everything Star Wars and Marvel related that has come out in the past decade or so I will never rewatch).
* "Everyone wants to save the world. They just can't agree how." is gaining traction as one of my favorite Fallout lines ever written.
I have no issues that the NCR as a faction officially fell apart, but I DO have a problem with how all those settlements that *used* to be part of the NCR also seem irrelevant/disappeared so that we can get back to the scrapyard themepark paradigm. Humans with a much lower technology level assembled their various tribes into full nations long before the bombs dropped. The post NCR California would be so much more interesting with a backdrop of conflicting former NCR member settlements. You might even call them, to borrow a term from another popular franchise whose layered and complex world eventually fell victim to lazy simplification, *successor states*. The world of Fallout *should* show us what new civilizations are trying to assert themselves.
I appreciate this Brotherhood being douches but that's about it. This does not seem like the logical continuation of the original Brotherhood but rather the next level of Arthur Maxson's idiocy...odd considering we're on the wrong coast for it.
I'm just tired of Bethesda's inability to satisfyingly expand/grow the setting in meaningful ways.
My biggest complain about the show is that the mainstory turns out to be so nonsensical in the last two episodes, there are otherwise some nitpicks here an there but overall the look and feel of the show is correct. Regarding Mr House, I am not sure if we got the date the meeting happens, as repconn is a separate entity there, this could have been before House acquired them, aka years before the bombs fell.
I hate to be this person, but most issues people have can be explained. But for the show to explain it, the season would've been 10 episodes, half-filler, and full of exposition dumps. The show...well, shows us what it can, as in 'show don't tell'.
Part of Fallout's draw is the mystery of events, not knowing exactly how things happened but sifting through the aftermath. Just like the games, they're giving us pieces of multiple stories, and we get to put them together and discuss them.
But this can, and most likely will, bite them in the ass since shows need to eventually get on with it and close up loose ends.
They gave us breadcrumbs, but if the fans think they lead to a cookie and the show reveals an unflavored muffin, fans are gonna be pissed.
Thank you for reading my TED talk on my addiction to copium! 😂
Wow, really? You just buy what they said about the chalkboard, with no question, but you also assume they did it to make fans mad? What? Why? Why would they do that? Why not consider that they lied about it, after the fact, and the original error is from some chalkboard artist they hired, who doesn't even know what Fallout is? Really a chalk board matters? Why? It makes no sense to give any Fs over a chalkboard artist mistake.
What does the fallout fandom political spectrum look like?
This show makes no sense that has no direction oh boy season 2 is going to be a disaster. Stand by your opinion Don't back down and don't let the sheep deter your creativity of criticism of this garbage of a show. Tha is Todd
lol Tod is just messing with all the NV fanboys because nobody likes them. I will hardcore stand by the fact that NV is the best fallout game. That’s my opinion. But the elitism that some NV fans have is so grinding and annoying. The game was developed in 18 months and it shows. It’s not perfect and the other games are just fine.
This show was an "oooohhh look power armor" canonical atrocity. But lore isn't important on this channel. Good thing thats not what any of us subbed for
As a whole, the first season of Fallout is a failure to me. Too many plot holes and bad writing and too much DEI. I'll still watch season 2 hoping for better, but if they keep screwing up and retconning the canon (lore), I'll stop watching all together. Oh, and like always, another sttlement needs your help, I'll mark it on your map.
Functionally the were no major retcons in the show. You can dislike the show but functionally the shady sands thing is not a retcon lol
Shady Sands…
The show sucked, I liked it at first then it just threw the lore out the window at the end.
Like brotherhood of steel acting like they never had cold* fusion technology when in New Vegas they literally stated they have bunkers that have cold fusion generators...
The whole vault tech situation was just annoying, we see AS THE BOMBS FELL IN FALLOUT 4, they showed the freezing tech was in the EXPERIMENTAL PHASE.
And the house lore is annoying because it shows he was TOLD they would drop the bombs. Even if he did the calculations the fact he knew they were coming just takes away from he's genius as a character.
Not to mention they show him also throwing ideas at the end, it's hard to see because they cut away so fast back and forth but he does throw a fuss with everyone else at the end.
Also vault techs plan is just plain stupid , "let's wait till everything on the surface dies, ya know cause like 200+ years proved that it's gonna happen one day"
They killed off the NCR off screen, brush passed it, and just throw a bone at the end.
Even the main "villain" was hyped up THE WHOLE SHOW only to die like a whimpering dog at the end...
Who the fuck likes this half baked shit show? Get some damn standards already
Fusion generators or COLD FUSION generators? These two things, are NOT the same thing, at all, even a little bit. Cold fusion is limitless power, that never needs the gas tank refilled.
@@Tijuanabill cold fusion my bad
@@Lordoftherobe Did they actually call it cold fusion though, in NV? In most of the games they just call it fusion. What the show is depicting, is NOT the generator you see in all the games. This needs no fuel, making it limitless. Did you see how she lit up the whole city? In the game it would take thousands of generators to do that.
@@Tijuanabill That's not how cold fusion works, it's a hypothetically possible means of power generation where the heat used in conventional vapor loop turbines is produced by getting atomic nuclei to fuse at room temperatures, fusion is currently possible in the real world, but it requires the assistance of immense heat and pressure, generated either by building sized magnet arrays and extremely high intensity lasers, or specially designed multi-stage nuclear weapons. The former requires too much power and resources to be able to generate more energy than is used in the fusion regulation process, on top of being unbelievably expensive and requiring very rare fuels like tritium, and the latter is obviously only practical in enhancing weapon yields. All fusion power sources require fuel, in the form of materials to fuse, generally lighter but often hard to acquire (like tritium). Also a large coal power plant could easily power that many lights, this isn't some unique function of the magical maguffin powered generator moldaver created, it is also ridiculous that beyond the idea that some random enclave escapee would have this magical free power maguffin for some unknown reason, is the notion that the electrical grid of a city which was nuked to annihilation, stood 230 years, and was nuked again, would still have an intact enough electrical grid for the lights to come on even if the generator did somehow work.
@@satomonster568 I read that all just so you know that your efforts weren't in vain.
Plus it was an enjoyable read for me.
Your original review was more accurate, because now you're having to fill in for the writers. When you have to do that, it's a bad show. Not that anyone needs to have questions or disagreements about this, though, because we were told what the theme of the show was, right out of the gate. It's about haves vs have-nots.
That's not what Fallout was principally about, so yes, it overturns lore. And then they crammed that dumbshit Woke theme in every place they could. Why did Moldaver attack Vault 33 during a wedding? To kill privileged people, of course. You could have just asked ANTIFA. Why do people think Vault Dwellers are privileged, or even know of them 200 years later? Because we need to have the lower class resenting the upper class, of course.
This theme continues, with the Brotherhood needing to be separated into haves and have-nots. Now they have an upper class of knights that abuses their squires for no other given or good reason. It is not the logical following of Lyons' or Maxson's policies for that to happen. Why wouldn't Maxson just take a more active role in saving humanity, for instance? Because the writers needed to subvert society for their dumb Woke trope, so there's a justification for Maximus rebelling later. Thus, they tell you the Brotherhood is in decline when it is demonstrably more powerful than it ever was, but with a new mission of domination that it never possessed before. You can tell they're evil, too, because they are also woefully incompetent. All that bullshit was just written in out of nowhere, lore-wise.
Then we've got Vault-Tec destroying the whole world for profit, somehow, opposed only by a Communist. If that didn't tell you that this show was Woke, crap, nothing will. VT's motivations make no sense, including the motivation to destroy all competition and then rebuild society with competition. House should have laughed in their fucking faces, right there. You don't have to be a genius to see how dumb the plan was, you just have to be above the IQ level of cabbage soup.
All this nonsense is the setting for Moldaver's quest to get cold fusion so she can........do what? Light up a dead city? She KNOWS the Enclave, the Brotherhood, and Vault-Tec will come after her. The latter JUST nuked her ass for having a nice city. But that doesn't matter to the theme, because she dies a martyr for the have-nots. That's seriously the ONLY plot message, like she read the script and planned for it. It's TERRIBLE writing, terrible character development, the same crap we see from movies and shows nobody watches any more, but because it was packaged as Fallout, some audiences will do the writing for the studio, making up stuff to fill in the gaps.
If the writers straight telling you what the theme was, and then watching them implement that theme doesn't convince you, look at what they picked for a model society - the "Wokest" Vault they could make up. Vault 4 is the communal paradise where everyone is included, like raiders and wastelanders of the variety that Vault 33 was JUST shown as being unable to rehabilitate.
But of course, the Woke are not actually nice people. They wrote the show, and that's why NCR had to be nuked, while they lay the blame on Vault-Tec. That IS the kind of shit they would actually do IRL, so we get it in a show. They couldn't very well have a better society forming in the mold of old United States, could they? Why would anyone want their Communist paradise if what we already have works? Ultimately, the NCR will be rebuilt, but you won't recognize it, just like every other faction. You'll see New Vegas first, obviously destroyed by House's greed, since that's the only way this kind of writing can go, and maybe some people will learn, then. You were more correct to begin with.
Yep, agreed wholeheartedly, this show is a blatantly political subversion of the series, which also retcons and overrules the west coast with the garbage aesthetics of the east, and destroys all of the factions that used to be there, leaving only bastardized remnants that fit bethesda's childishly simple faction tropes, and the eternal wasteland where nothing is taken seriously and people don't even clean the 200 year old skeletons out of their closets.
Gotta agree on this. What made NV just great is because they knew how to write politics better in the FALLOUT world not OUR world politics. I mean, while it all looks good and aesthetically pleasing Fallout is WAY more than what the show BARLEY covered. Honestly writers nowadays are more interested in putting in a more political agenda than writing meaningful stories anymore...
@@theunknownartist521 Yeah, New Vegas was a lot more subtle about it in a good way, it was discussing IRL ideals, but it did so in a fashion that made them feel like logical developments of the game world, each with their own strengths and shortcomings. You could argue for and against each, and there were degrees of nuance to all of them. It also built off what came before in a constructive way, instead of just ignoring or destructively retconning things to try and railroad through whatever the writers felt the message should be.
Among the most important things though, is the fact that New Vegas took itself seriously, sure there were the odd jokey things, and the whole wild wasteland selection of stuff, but the game didn't constantly make a joke out of itself, undermining the stakes at every turn with lines like "get that jelly mold outta here" and out of place oldie tracks.
Every time you comment on the comments, you are doing it wrong. Let them say what they want. Who cares? Does addressing crazy people help your channel? Why? How? Please explain.
I always thought the term "War, war never changes" was used because the (why) people have war that has never changed?
Fallout 1: Super Mutants fighting the Vault Dwellers over the resource of "pure" humans.
(Might be a stretch)
Fallout 2: Replace Super Mutants with Enclave taking all the pure Arroyo tribals & Vault Dwellers.
(A resource)
Fallout 3: Clean Wah-uh. (A resource)
Fallout New Vegas: The electricity that the Hoover Dam brings. (A resource)
Fallout 4: Beryllium Agitator.
(The whole story is all about Nate and how each faction relates to Nate, wouldn't consider synths a resource though).
But when the TV show used the tag line "war, war never changes..
Is capitalism really a resource?
How did Vault-tec predict that currency was going to change into bottles caps & how is Vault-tec going to eliminate all the factions if they used all the nukes pre-war?
You can't outlast everyone depending on how much resources you held previously.
What, the customers are just going the vault dwellers themselves between over 140 vaults when you have terrible ones like Vault 77 because most vaults are going to be killed off through natural selection do to personal ideas of what they think that'll make the best society?
(I'm bad at paraphrasing what Barb said to convince the other head honchos, what they can do with the vaults)..
Clearly their assumption was that nothing would survive. They don't care about money, or what form it takes, they care about the power that money buys. They want to be in charge. If the world is only them, then they are in charge. At least, that is what their thinking is.
@@Tijuanabill Okay, it's just they are the only ones who exist.
What's the difference between them & the Enclave?
@@punkdallas1646 I can't justify their logic, because it doesn't make any sense, without more information, that we don't have. As for how they would differ from the Enclave, who knows? They could be tied together all along, for all we know. They could be one and the same, in reality. We don't know who was pulling the strings at Vault-tec. It could very well be The Enclave.
@@Tijuanabill I know we only got season 1 to off of..
Still can't believe show creator Jonathan Nolan said on a IGN interview "we don't have any documentation on why Maldaver is over 200 years old but we'll figure out something by the next season" when he could've just simply said watch season 2 to find out.
(Yes I understand for Hank, Betty & Stephanie had cryo pods but it's really hard for me to just assume Maldaver too).
Then some people started filling in the gaps for the writers.
(But isn't it weird how the production crew somewhat changes starting around episode 4 or episode 6)?
Is it strange that I didn't view Vault-Tec as being "Evil" before the TV show?
I've only played 3, New Vegas & 4 yet the different vaults to me didn't seem like "let the best vault win" more like "if they're successful we can use them for the future type of situation"?
@@punkdallas1646 I mean...this is some serious hair splitting. What difference does it make actually, what they say outside of the show? The canon is the show, not these interviews. Being shocked they don't know yet, is like fundamentally not understanding that scripts are not written before they are written. Yeah, some details they don't know yet, because those decisions have not been made yet. Why is that strange to you?
No, it isn't weird to me that the production crew changed, because I have no idea that even happened, and would never know anything about something like that, at all ever. I don't sit around reading about production crews, and I didn't even know that existed, that people do. I don't even really know what that is, but I definitely don't' care to find out.
OBVIOUSLY Moldaver is from Vault 31. Like...are you for real here? She isn't a ghoul, and she is from the past, so with the rules of this IP in place, that means she has been popsickled. If they dream up some new thing, then fine. But for now there are only two choices, and she clearly isn't a ghoul. Like....duh. I haven't said duh in like 40 years but...its the only thing that fits here.
Folks seem to be employing a lot of mental gymnastics to praise this show. All I see is another woke Hollywood product.