well this is interesting. i really like that someone found a way to play this deck without the obvious bricks. but at the same time i wouldn’t personally play this list in tournament. it is my belief that the deck is beyond strong going first and needs no help. I dont think water duelists should be focusing any amount of energy into refining anything for going first. Now that we have poseidra and going second is actually viable, the majority of losses that I take are from losing the die roll so all of my optimizations have been made in that regard. if you can make the deck better at losing the die roll there is no need to take out gund or triana (maybe gund idk) but the deck is also trying to accomplish something different than the regular mermail deck with a different win condition as well so take my comment with a grain of salt. Great work keep the vids coming!
That list was rather mystic... I'm still trying to elaborate what I've just seen, but yeah... ...so, the idea behind it is Raiho spamming, right? Let's see how it goes... good luck man!
It’s not “mystic” the list attempts to play the less amount of bricks possible while maintaining a good win condition. I am confident enough to write, with testing to back it off, that this list’s end board wins the same amount of games as a regular list end board. With the added benefit of winning more games in total than a standard list because it bricks less often and plays better under turn ending cards (shifter / droll /mulcharmies) than a regular list. It’s the most “cost efficient” list I’ve been able to come up with. Virtue Stream / Triana / Mizuchi / Double Toad / Coelacanth (with additional abysspikes) / Abyssgunde / Abyssmegalo are all win more cards. They make you play less non -engine (hand traps) and accomplish nothing by their own. It’s more of a Lancea Spamming than Raiho. Hence the Lancea Control name. If you don’t take care of Lancea properly you get punished by getting Trished. So Lancea isn’t just one dimensional, it deals with backrow decks as well.
@@Marvin_Red haven't said is bad, just strange. And don't worry, I get it was a Lancea spam, but the most part is done by Raiho who's spammed by Lancea, hence a Raiho spam. I get it plays little bricks so very consistent, but I just dont like floodgates man... It's not like it's bad, just particular and not in my style. That's what I meant with "mystic".
It was a very interesting list! Really forced me to play differently. I definitely made some misplays just due to not properly piloting the deck but overall, id say the deck was successful
Srry guys im moving alittle slow here. Trying to balance time for everything! I will bring my discord back to life for deck submissions. Ill have some thing this week!
The reasoning behind 1 Diva was to make Small World become a Toolbox. You have the same amount of access to 3 Diva without actually playing 3 hard copies of Diva. You don’t want to clog on normal summons and Prince is clearly the best normal summon of the deck. 5 normal summon is the golden number for a 40 card deck. 3 Prince 1 Diva 1 Abysspike. Small Worlds makes you play “3 Divas / 3 Minstrels / 5 Prince.” If you get Shitered grab Diva and make the mannequin cat play / Grab Minstrel and make them discard a handtrap / grab Prince. I don’t like to play 3 though, because opening 2 in a starting hand is really a pain. So I opted for prosperity instead to minimize opening hands of 2 Small Worlds. The extra bahamut shark and toad are needed for turn 3. Because in this build you link off moulinglacia so you don’t have your battle phase. So you need to be able to make another disruption in combination with Lancia. The entire strategy is based on Lancea being the win condition. Why ? Because Lancea lets you play under shifter / droll / purulia / fuwaloss / dark ruler / forbidden droplet the best with the lowest amount of bricks possible to combo (3 Mouling Infantry Raiho).As well as helping you going second by making more room for non engine (more handtraps) and being a good boss monster to make even going second. It truly does it all. In my opinion Virtue Stream / Abyssgunde / Abyssmegalo / Abysspikes / Mizuchi / Triana are all win more cards that don’t accomplish anything by themselves. Lancia / Toad / Rip 2 / infantry pop / mermail link 3 wins the same amount of games as 2 toad / Rip 2 / 2 Infantry pop / Virtue Stream / Link 3.
@Marvin_Red I disagree completely with calling Triania a win more card, it is just straight up an extrender and your grind game card (There's a huge arguement for Virtue Stream being mandatory and not win more as it's the one brick that IS the interuption, and plays through board breakers). It would make more sense to call Moulinglacia win more. I also disagree with playing Raiho at all when the arguement for it is to decrease bricks that still do something when drawn (Such as Gunde), yes this does make Lancea worse, but I do think the Icejade/Chengying are more consistent. Try stream lining the deck on a future list with max copies of the cards you need to open and a single copy of the engine components you need for combo but probably don't want to open (such as Srhine/Triania). You're also not playing 'extra' Bahamut Toads, that's how many the deck should play, you make both turn 1 in archtype and return Toad with Toad and one of the Bahamuts with Triania if it's needed (Triania also returns Poseidra for turn 3 or 4 which comes up a lot). I do however agree with Coelacanth being completely unnecessary, especially when it forces you to play multiple Pykes (and heaven forbid other fish targets, that have to be Tuners bc of Shifter Vs Toad) The Small World + 1 Diva for CATxHUNTER is very cute, but I think it's an engine we only get to play when we have a way to do it without our normal summon, especially a normal summon that's become increasingly awkward to resolve. Just glad there's someone trying things differently than everyone else (especially aligning with my pet hate for Coelacanth).
So there were definitely points from his list I forgot to mention. I really appreciate Marvin for showing off a very different list in a community where we are all already deciding wht is correct or not. I went into this with alot of doubt, and while I dont think I fully adapted his play style, the deck was successful and i cant wait to watch my matches back!
@@deepseaygo250 Agree, I always appreciate people that try new things within things that are seemingly already established (though sometimes things are just straight up decided, proof of conept being you wouldn't play less than 3 Prince). Though there a defintely some things here that as an ABYR veteran on this deck myself, I do absolutely not agree with, but it's not my list.
@@Deadly-Shunpoafter the conversation I had with you (if you can even call that a conversation) I still don't share the same hate of playing Coelacanth as you which was why I defended it a bit but with that being said I still don't play it as I've said last time, it only plays around Droll but at the cost of playing more bricks like itself, the 2nd and 3rd Pike and Armored Shark, plus it doesn't even play around Shifter that well since the Armored Shark needs a GY to work but a lot of ppl swear by the Coelacanth Armored XYZ package saying it's "mandatory" which is just not true, I'd rather play Ocea than the whole Coelacanth package honestly. Also Triaina is definitely not something that the deck should cut, it's an extender that's searchable/recyclable, it protects whatever it brings out and it doesn't target, idk why anyone would cut it. I may not have been playing Mermail for as long as you but I've been playing the deck since CBLZ and I've also played it against Dragunity Rulers once (won a single game and got destroyed on the other 2), there aren't a lot of tournaments in my country since the community is a lot smaller and ppl here just aren't as financially stable to build meta decks to play. My favorite list currently is Jesse's list with no Coelacanth only 10 non-engines in the main being the 6 Mulcharmies, 3 Talents and 1 Called by then siding the other non-engines like Impulse, Ash, DRNM, etc.. I feel like that list is how I'd want to play Mermail, maximizing on combo cards, the Charmies discourage the opponent from making a full board, the Talents can break boards or give +1s and Called by is just a good card overall. Also I'd like to say that I was rude calling you a prick last time and it's true that a lot of ppl just swear by things that the deck just doesn't need. I do have 1 gripe with a lot of Mermail lists playing too many handtraps though, I think too many handtraps just brick the deck too much and to me the magic number is 9-12, more than that in my experience isn't very good. In my opinion there's no point in stopping your opponent from making a board if you just drew a hand full of handtraps and can't play either, then the game just goes to a state to see who can top deck their 1 card starter first. Again, this handtrap opinion is just strictly my opinion, I have nothing against others playing more handtraps, it's just not something I'd like
@@jjshane72 I'll reply with as little volume as possible to each paragraph, otherwise this will turn into a massive conversation. 1st - This is just you agreeing with me on our previous conversation in comments, though I think the distinction of 'If play Coelacanth, don't play Amrored Shark' and 'If play pure, you should PROBABLY play Armored Shark until SUDA' is pretty important. As for which variant someone plays, I will stand by what i've always said - Coelacanth is for less-confident/less-experienced players or players that just don't want the hassel (because both Shifter and Droll and no where near being played enough to justify the engine) and if are confident/experienced, then play pure as it is better, and if you do play pure, then you probably should play the Armored Shark package unless you're REALLY confident (I'm currently play Undine levels of confident, until people start reading my cards and Undine becomes awful again). Coelacanth otherwise is just lazy Mermail ("Oh look at me, I went -2, all my OPT effects and my normal summon for this sick multi e-tele. Oh it was Shifter not Droll? I didn't put in Tuners because Toad can't even be activated under it? Defeating 50% of the reason players swear by it? Oh they had Imperm/Ash/Veiler/Impulse? Good game I guess.. I'm sure there was something I could have done better"). 2nd - Sure, you may not have been playing this deck as long or as much as I have, but as someone that has that 'title' I can say that you don't 'need a degree to know something' and not have people just tell me I'm mis-informed. Meaning yeah absolutely, you don't need to have played with the deck as long as me to know something. 3rd - Thanks for apoligising. 4th - So I think 9 is way too low for non-engine. As I'd found, if you wanted the maximum non-water-non-engine without hindering your consitency before ROTA, the number was 13 non-water-non-engine (assuming you played 3 Diva 3 Prince 3 Goon 3 Teus 3 Minstel 3 Moray of Greed 3 Foolish Burial Goods or Small World or Deep Sea Aria). With the added consistency in ROTA, you 'can' increase this number by 1-2 cards and still be perfectly fine, but the rest of your deck has to be GOOD cards (Like combo pieces or starters that all either trade 1 for 1 or 1 for 2 in card econemy, meaning not One for One the card) and no more than 1-3 bricks (Such as Armored Shark/Coelacanth/Fishborg Harpooner/Ocea/2nd and 3rd Pikes) assuming you shuffle efficiently between rounds. Card like Gunde i'm not sure I would consider a brick, more of a 'an extender requiring outlet' and does help you play through interuption. The biggest pro-tip I can give anyone with this deck post Rota, and even more so post SUDA, IS to build it like you're building Snake-Eye. Treat Atlanteans as Snake-Eye/Azamina cards, treat Mermails as Diabelstar/WANTED cards, and treat Coelacanth like Fire King Cards. We learn't Fire King Snake-Eye was worse than pure for similar reasons, it doesn't somehow change because it has a WATER attritube.
I did and the creator had brought it up as well, in the end I decided that tidal was in the same category as a card like megalo or gunde, an additional extender. And this deck was focused on minimizing them! Also, I was given Charmies before the eevnt to borrow so I ended up playing his original list, which I will showcase those changes in the upcoming videos
Definitely a list of all time lol
It did well!
@@deepseaygo250 Can't wait to see the games, I got a list brewing just for you
well this is interesting. i really like that someone found a way to play this deck without the obvious bricks. but at the same time i wouldn’t personally play this list in tournament. it is my belief that the deck is beyond strong going first and needs no help. I dont think water duelists should be focusing any amount of energy into refining anything for going first. Now that we have poseidra and going second is actually viable, the majority of losses that I take are from losing the die roll so all of my optimizations have been made in that regard. if you can make the deck better at losing the die roll there is no need to take out gund or triana (maybe gund idk) but the deck is also trying to accomplish something different than the regular mermail deck with a different win condition as well so take my comment with a grain of salt. Great work keep the vids coming!
It was hard list to be confident in and to pilot, but it did well in the end!
I think small world is more effective with mulch as well
Nice profile. What kind of sleeves are those?
Just standard Dragon Shield mattes I believe
good luck
Thank you, locals went well!
That list was rather mystic... I'm still trying to elaborate what I've just seen, but yeah...
...so, the idea behind it is Raiho spamming, right?
Let's see how it goes... good luck man!
It’s not “mystic” the list attempts to play the less amount of bricks possible while maintaining a good win condition. I am confident enough to write, with testing to back it off, that this list’s end board wins the same amount of games as a regular list end board. With the added benefit of winning more games in total than a standard list because it bricks less often and plays better under turn ending cards (shifter / droll /mulcharmies) than a regular list.
It’s the most “cost efficient” list I’ve been able to come up with. Virtue Stream / Triana / Mizuchi / Double Toad / Coelacanth (with additional abysspikes) / Abyssgunde / Abyssmegalo are all win more cards. They make you play less non -engine (hand traps) and accomplish nothing by their own.
It’s more of a Lancea Spamming than Raiho. Hence the Lancea Control name. If you don’t take care of Lancea properly you get punished by getting Trished. So Lancea isn’t just one dimensional, it deals with backrow decks as well.
@@Marvin_Red haven't said is bad, just strange. And don't worry, I get it was a Lancea spam, but the most part is done by Raiho who's spammed by Lancea, hence a Raiho spam.
I get it plays little bricks so very consistent, but I just dont like floodgates man... It's not like it's bad, just particular and not in my style. That's what I meant with "mystic".
It was a very interesting list! Really forced me to play differently. I definitely made some misplays just due to not properly piloting the deck but overall, id say the deck was successful
@@deepseaygo250 really interested in seeing the matches then!
I do suggest you at least get a playset of Purulia. Water charmy is good as a hand trap and as discard fodder
I need to, but its spiking like crazy but I know its the better to sink into. I have 1 copy lined up currently
Hey! Where do we suggest deck lists? Just posting in the comments or is there like a link or a discord?
We need to know. 😂 I want my expensive deck on here.
Srry guys im moving alittle slow here. Trying to balance time for everything! I will bring my discord back to life for deck submissions. Ill have some thing this week!
@@deepseaygo250keep us updated
The reasoning behind 1 Diva was to make Small World become a Toolbox. You have the same amount of access to 3 Diva without actually playing 3 hard copies of Diva. You don’t want to clog on normal summons and Prince is clearly the best normal summon of the deck. 5 normal summon is the golden number for a 40 card deck. 3 Prince 1 Diva 1 Abysspike.
Small Worlds makes you play “3 Divas / 3 Minstrels / 5 Prince.” If you get Shitered grab Diva and make the mannequin cat play / Grab Minstrel and make them discard a handtrap / grab Prince. I don’t like to play 3 though, because opening 2 in a starting hand is really a pain. So I opted for prosperity instead to minimize opening hands of 2 Small Worlds.
The extra bahamut shark and toad are needed for turn 3. Because in this build you link off moulinglacia so you don’t have your battle phase. So you need to be able to make another disruption in combination with Lancia.
The entire strategy is based on Lancea being the win condition. Why ? Because Lancea lets you play under shifter / droll / purulia / fuwaloss / dark ruler / forbidden droplet the best with the lowest amount of bricks possible to combo (3 Mouling Infantry Raiho).As well as helping you going second by making more room for non engine (more handtraps) and being a good boss monster to make even going second. It truly does it all.
In my opinion Virtue Stream / Abyssgunde / Abyssmegalo / Abysspikes / Mizuchi / Triana are all win more cards that don’t accomplish anything by themselves. Lancia / Toad / Rip 2 / infantry pop / mermail link 3 wins the same amount of games as 2 toad / Rip 2 / 2 Infantry pop / Virtue Stream / Link 3.
@Marvin_Red I disagree completely with calling Triania a win more card, it is just straight up an extrender and your grind game card (There's a huge arguement for Virtue Stream being mandatory and not win more as it's the one brick that IS the interuption, and plays through board breakers). It would make more sense to call Moulinglacia win more.
I also disagree with playing Raiho at all when the arguement for it is to decrease bricks that still do something when drawn (Such as Gunde), yes this does make Lancea worse, but I do think the Icejade/Chengying are more consistent. Try stream lining the deck on a future list with max copies of the cards you need to open and a single copy of the engine components you need for combo but probably don't want to open (such as Srhine/Triania).
You're also not playing 'extra' Bahamut Toads, that's how many the deck should play, you make both turn 1 in archtype and return Toad with Toad and one of the Bahamuts with Triania if it's needed (Triania also returns Poseidra for turn 3 or 4 which comes up a lot).
I do however agree with Coelacanth being completely unnecessary, especially when it forces you to play multiple Pykes (and heaven forbid other fish targets, that have to be Tuners bc of Shifter Vs Toad)
The Small World + 1 Diva for CATxHUNTER is very cute, but I think it's an engine we only get to play when we have a way to do it without our normal summon, especially a normal summon that's become increasingly awkward to resolve.
Just glad there's someone trying things differently than everyone else (especially aligning with my pet hate for Coelacanth).
So there were definitely points from his list I forgot to mention. I really appreciate Marvin for showing off a very different list in a community where we are all already deciding wht is correct or not. I went into this with alot of doubt, and while I dont think I fully adapted his play style, the deck was successful and i cant wait to watch my matches back!
@@deepseaygo250 Agree, I always appreciate people that try new things within things that are seemingly already established (though sometimes things are just straight up decided, proof of conept being you wouldn't play less than 3 Prince). Though there a defintely some things here that as an ABYR veteran on this deck myself, I do absolutely not agree with, but it's not my list.
@@Deadly-Shunpoafter the conversation I had with you (if you can even call that a conversation) I still don't share the same hate of playing Coelacanth as you which was why I defended it a bit but with that being said I still don't play it as I've said last time, it only plays around Droll but at the cost of playing more bricks like itself, the 2nd and 3rd Pike and Armored Shark, plus it doesn't even play around Shifter that well since the Armored Shark needs a GY to work but a lot of ppl swear by the Coelacanth Armored XYZ package saying it's "mandatory" which is just not true, I'd rather play Ocea than the whole Coelacanth package honestly. Also Triaina is definitely not something that the deck should cut, it's an extender that's searchable/recyclable, it protects whatever it brings out and it doesn't target, idk why anyone would cut it.
I may not have been playing Mermail for as long as you but I've been playing the deck since CBLZ and I've also played it against Dragunity Rulers once (won a single game and got destroyed on the other 2), there aren't a lot of tournaments in my country since the community is a lot smaller and ppl here just aren't as financially stable to build meta decks to play.
My favorite list currently is Jesse's list with no Coelacanth only 10 non-engines in the main being the 6 Mulcharmies, 3 Talents and 1 Called by then siding the other non-engines like Impulse, Ash, DRNM, etc.. I feel like that list is how I'd want to play Mermail, maximizing on combo cards, the Charmies discourage the opponent from making a full board, the Talents can break boards or give +1s and Called by is just a good card overall.
Also I'd like to say that I was rude calling you a prick last time and it's true that a lot of ppl just swear by things that the deck just doesn't need.
I do have 1 gripe with a lot of Mermail lists playing too many handtraps though, I think too many handtraps just brick the deck too much and to me the magic number is 9-12, more than that in my experience isn't very good. In my opinion there's no point in stopping your opponent from making a board if you just drew a hand full of handtraps and can't play either, then the game just goes to a state to see who can top deck their 1 card starter first. Again, this handtrap opinion is just strictly my opinion, I have nothing against others playing more handtraps, it's just not something I'd like
@@jjshane72 I'll reply with as little volume as possible to each paragraph, otherwise this will turn into a massive conversation.
1st - This is just you agreeing with me on our previous conversation in comments, though I think the distinction of 'If play Coelacanth, don't play Amrored Shark' and 'If play pure, you should PROBABLY play Armored Shark until SUDA' is pretty important. As for which variant someone plays, I will stand by what i've always said - Coelacanth is for less-confident/less-experienced players or players that just don't want the hassel (because both Shifter and Droll and no where near being played enough to justify the engine) and if are confident/experienced, then play pure as it is better, and if you do play pure, then you probably should play the Armored Shark package unless you're REALLY confident (I'm currently play Undine levels of confident, until people start reading my cards and Undine becomes awful again). Coelacanth otherwise is just lazy Mermail ("Oh look at me, I went -2, all my OPT effects and my normal summon for this sick multi e-tele. Oh it was Shifter not Droll? I didn't put in Tuners because Toad can't even be activated under it? Defeating 50% of the reason players swear by it? Oh they had Imperm/Ash/Veiler/Impulse? Good game I guess.. I'm sure there was something I could have done better").
2nd - Sure, you may not have been playing this deck as long or as much as I have, but as someone that has that 'title' I can say that you don't 'need a degree to know something' and not have people just tell me I'm mis-informed. Meaning yeah absolutely, you don't need to have played with the deck as long as me to know something.
3rd - Thanks for apoligising.
4th - So I think 9 is way too low for non-engine. As I'd found, if you wanted the maximum non-water-non-engine without hindering your consitency before ROTA, the number was 13 non-water-non-engine (assuming you played 3 Diva 3 Prince 3 Goon 3 Teus 3 Minstel 3 Moray of Greed 3 Foolish Burial Goods or Small World or Deep Sea Aria). With the added consistency in ROTA, you 'can' increase this number by 1-2 cards and still be perfectly fine, but the rest of your deck has to be GOOD cards (Like combo pieces or starters that all either trade 1 for 1 or 1 for 2 in card econemy, meaning not One for One the card) and no more than 1-3 bricks (Such as Armored Shark/Coelacanth/Fishborg Harpooner/Ocea/2nd and 3rd Pikes) assuming you shuffle efficiently between rounds. Card like Gunde i'm not sure I would consider a brick, more of a 'an extender requiring outlet' and does help you play through interuption.
The biggest pro-tip I can give anyone with this deck post Rota, and even more so post SUDA, IS to build it like you're building Snake-Eye. Treat Atlanteans as Snake-Eye/Azamina cards, treat Mermails as Diabelstar/WANTED cards, and treat Coelacanth like Fire King Cards. We learn't Fire King Snake-Eye was worse than pure for similar reasons, it doesn't somehow change because it has a WATER attritube.
I have a list I’ve been testing and I think you would like it
@junnnx2 sounds awesome, check my community tab for discord link and send it over. Would love to take a look
have you thought about playing 1 tidal to search from mag?
I did and the creator had brought it up as well, in the end I decided that tidal was in the same category as a card like megalo or gunde, an additional extender. And this deck was focused on minimizing them! Also, I was given Charmies before the eevnt to borrow so I ended up playing his original list, which I will showcase those changes in the upcoming videos
i have a real spicey list for you
Im fucking ready lol!
Discord link will be provided soon!
Too bare-bone for my taste.