It's a shame Enterprise was canceled before they could do the Earth-Romulan War. The episodes featuring the politics between the major powers are some of my favorites. Enterprise made me love Andorians. I still get goosebumps every time I watch the episodes that end with Earth, Vulcan, Andorian and Tellarite vessels flying in formation. I was waiting for them to eventually introduce a Captain or Commander Stiles at some point in the series as well.
To me the reason it got cancelled was due to the lackluster writing after the end of the Xindi crisis. That last series was just boring in comparison to the tension, action and sense of mortality for the ship and charecters that the Xindi arc gave. I know it would have been too much to go straight into the Romulan war arc but they could have started on the diplomatic tensions and skirmishes to set the environment.
John Smith I loved Enterprise, with all it's flaws, it had better characters, designs, they made an effort for it to fit into canon as best as it could...Proper tech, with some mistakes here or there, proper starship size, good enough visual look... etc.. I'm very far from loving Discovery as they have 0 interest in respecting canon, visually, technologically and event story-wise... and most characters are... wanting... and has SJW overkill all over the place.
The timeline between Warp 2 and Warp 5 in 10 years kind of makes sense. Look at aircraft. It took forever to break the sound barrier, 6 years later we hit mach 3, and six years after that we went hyper-sonic. Since Warp is exponential, it makes sense that the jump from warp 1-2 would take a while (like the Apollo Missions, they didn't even know what they didn't know yet), but after they figured out that hurdle, it would be a matter of degrees (i.e. more power, more warp coils, different dilithium configurations, etc.). Advancement would come quicker (which could also indicate why the warp 4 Franklin and the warp 5 Enterprise designs are so similar. The Enterprise designers took many design cues from the Franklin, and altered it to accommodate the warp 5 engine, utilize better hull plating and manufacturing techniques, and generally serve as the Starfleet flagship and ship-of-the-line. Actually, I wrote all of this and thought of something else. What if the Franklin and Enterprise were two ships built by different companies bidding for a Starfleet contract (like the Advanced Tactical Fighter program that led to the development of the F-22)? Starfleet commissioned proposals for a new ship of the line needing a warp 5 engine. One company produced the Franklin, which had an engine design which was the first to get to warp 4 but became unstable nearer warp 5. The other was the Enterprise, which had the superior engine designed by Archer, won the contract and was then designated NX-01 when it was commissioned. The Franklin was put in mothballs for a while, but was refitted with an Archer warp 5 engine and commissioned as the NX-326 for the war.
I thought Franklin was a MACO ship and Enterprise was an exploration ship. Different branches of Starfleet wanted different designs for different jobs. Like the US navy and USMC have their own ship. Franklin-class is a short ranged transport and combat vessel for hauling marines between colonies. NX-01 is a long range cruiser designed to go years between resupply and refit.
I think people forget that when archer and starfleet was testing the NX Alpha Beta Delta they were testing the warp 5 engine for the NX class. I think they already achieved warp 4 they just were testing the warp 5 engine.
well the franklin was commisioned AFTER enterprise and columbia were built , so no they were not influnced by the franklin. the reason why the franklin wasn't a warp 5 was they worked on warp field stability on that class and this had the efect of reducing over all speed but allowed the ship to maintain it's max warp longer.
These intro animations are *getting out of control!!* Absolutely brilliant, dynamic, and so detailed and interesting for anyone that loves the design and forms of ships that it's hard to express how great it is to see these things come to life like never before. Can't thank you enough for working so hard to bring these kind of quality visuals to the rest of us!
Use warship production numbers for WW2 to get a sense of what they might be able to produce. Cargo ships would be built like the liberty ships, dozens a month using older, rock solid ,warp technologies. In WW2 liberty ships used triple expansion stem engines with a liquid fueled boiler. Warships used steam turbines which were a whole different step ahead in efficiency and power. The Daedalus class would have been the equivalent of the 4 stack destroyers of WW2. Capable ships when they were built, but still fuelled by coal and needing to be updated. I would expect the wartime build Daedalus classes to be antimatter/ warp and have phasers rather than lasers and torpedoes rather than missiles. I would expect them to look somewhat refit like when the engenering hull was put on the Enterprize.
I think the Franklin class was designed to be a replacement to the warp delta and to combat the smaller Romulan ships you see in the Ent episode Minefield.
Totally true!! Although I don't know why it was taking Starfleet so long to refit the Enterprise and we get stuck with the already refitted Endeavour in the later books. Too bad none of the novels are considered cannon...
@@Stinger913 In the books they explain why they went for Daedalus class production. While not the most powerful, the daedalus was the fastest to produce they had, and they needed as many hulls for convoy duty as possible.
Early Star Fleet would act sort of like a space going Coast guard to Civilian shipping. Like our modern Coast Guard it would also be heavily involved in research and exploration. In my mind I see it by the Enterprise era resembling the US Navy in the 1790's. Small kid on the block but with a mean uppercut.
It would seem that given the limited spacedock / orbital shipyard resources and the fact that bulk cargo ships probably greatly outnumbered other human ships, you would THINK that after the Xindi affair they would at least have developed small drone fighter craft or something that maybe can be carried by the freighters. It would make sense, since these small drones could be mass produced on the ground and then transported to orbit by cargo shuttles or tugs instead of occupying time and space in orbital shipyards, and of course there would be little refit/upgrade requirement on the frieghters other than cargo pods that can launch the drones and then recover them (basically each fighter launches from it's own cargo pod, and each pod would have an extending docking arm to capture surviving drones and pull them back into their cargo pods for stowage. it seems like it would be a quick and relatively cheap way to reduce the escort requirements of shipping convoys while also being able to utilize some cargo ships as full blown military assets to augment star fleet vessels.
I really appreciate this iteration of the Yorktown! It so perfectly fits the era and has such a logical form follows function appeal while also managing to look powerful and practical at the same time. Excellent work!
A more realistic scenario for this story would be, the Daedalus would be the standard workhorse for the early Earth Fleet. A multi role ship performing exploration, colony patrol and transport missions. Earth would maintain a fleet of 100 to 150 Daedalus ships. The Warp Delta would be assigned to Patrol, search and rescue. Acting almost like the Coast Guard, Deltas would be assigned to each colony system, 1 Squadron of 2 to 4 ships. Franklins would supplement the Deltas, also acting as scouts for NX class. At the start of the Romulan War, older Daedalus and fast civilian cargo ships would be locally retrofitted with missiles and phase cannon, rushed to them by stripped down Franklins.
I love the Delta ships which to me could be used as stealth ships in real life. The Interpid class reminds me of the Later Miranda class light cruiser. Of course the Daedalus may not be a heavy combat ship but boy is it practical for non combat duties as well as being retrofitted for such a duty. I'm coming here after seeing Romulan War Part one and cant wait for Part 2. I'm excited to see what you guys will end up doing. Edit I believe the first ships that actually did warp 2 or close were the J and Y class freighters and that was more so at the turn of the 22nd century.
I think the warp deltas would be a ship that at least would’ve been upgraded with new engines as the nx ships got their warp 7 engines! They could use the old warp 5s to beef up the walkers n deltas so they could help in the fight. I agree though deltas would be great stealth or scouts n ya the Daedalus is ugly but functional is most important in all ships even new ones over looks
Besides the window and that honestly canon breaking line about warp speed (Which can easily be explained away as another Franklin before the NX-01 they got confused with) it fits. Discovery fit the windows into the Prime Timeline and it's implied that certain ships did have them. It's like the U wings in Star Wars. They weren't in the trilogy but things changed and now they're a staple. It also explains why they're in the Kelvin Universe. It was a tech Star Fleet had access to but after having issues with Romulans they had windows added back on and improved. In fact in the original series it was shown that the cloaking devices didn't completely hide them from sight but did stop them from being scanned. Perhaps that's why ships from the era the Franklin is from (During the first Romulan war) have windows in order to spot anomalies that could be cloaked ships.
I personally think the Daedulus would come after the NX, and if you look at the linage, from the warp delta, to the half saucer in the intrepid, to a full saucer in the NX. They probably though, "well a full saucer was more effective compared to the half saucer, so let's try to double down on this and do a sphere." Then came the Daedulus, and it was a step too far, so they stepped back.
From an engineering standpoint the sphere definately came first. It is easier to pressurize and seal...however and I quote Joseph Reinemann here since he has answered that on Quora: "A sphere doesn't have much surface area for its volume, and from an engineering perspective that's really bad for a space ship. You want a high amount of surface area so that you can radiate more heat. And the best way to fix that problem while still retaining the desirable qualities of a spherical pressure vessel is to basically squash the sphere until it becomes a saucer…" You also need fewer decks so you can access more space on one level without the need for using an elevator or stairs which is quicker and more convenient. So there really is not much need to go back to a sphere when you already have build a saucer...
If you already know that a sphere is really bad for a space ship, you would bypass that first and go to a saucer. Then try out the sphere to test if the sphere would function differently in a warp field.
Well, less surface area also means less materials needed for the hull plating. So in the early days of space flight, when everything still has to be send to space from earth, a sphere might be actually preferable over a saucer shape because it´s cheaper to build. On the other hand the difference between a sphere and a saucer (or a brick for that matter) should not make much of a difference inside a warp bubble as space is bend outside of the warp field not inside of it....
I totally agree. It should be the "new design" after the NX. They would make maybe one or two Daedalus class ships as R&D vessels (the presence of a secondary hull and a round saucer indicates it might even have been designed about the same time or possibly later than the NX refit). Then, after its initial flight trials and battle drills, when they discovered the sphere didn't work as well as they thought, future Starfleet designs would revert back to the saucer shape. The Daedalus ships would probably then be used in an alternate role. The U.S. Navy does this all the time, their "test" ships are commissioned ships of the line, just with experimental tech, or existing ships are refitted with experimental equipment for field testing. Even if that equipment or test ship fails, it remains commissioned and remains part of the fleet. Sometimes those R&D ships where the design didn't work as it was supposed to get reassigned to another, rear echelon or supporting role, but sometimes they remain as ships of the line. Either way, they stay commissioned.
@c4blew, nope. By the time Enterprise aired, it was already 100 years since first contact, and other ships were already built. It would not have been an issue to ship materials to space. You're assuming that hull plating had to be shipped up. So you're basically exchanging deck materials for hull plating. You still have to ship materials for internal volume. You could make the argument that they mainly had the internal volume be cargo space, or empty space, but even if they did that, you would at best break even in terms of raw materials needed. They're not going to leave a giant hollow center. This is also very early in Starfleet history and in Earth warp design. They're going to experiment. You're assuming that they know more than they did.
Kind of ignoring the fact that the ships in Enterprise are re-designs of the ships shown in First Contact. The Nx-01 (Upside down Akira class) Intrepid (Steamrunner class)Delta (Sabre class)
21:33 You should watch some World War 2 documentaries and start seeing just how fast things speed up when war breaks out. Construction docks go from putting out one ship a year to one ship in two months. They had the Enterprise refit and ready for battle in mere days after she was nearly taken out of the fight completely. You also have to factor in that the Romulans were seemingly preparing for this conflict for quite awhile before they started their drone-ship experiments in Enterprise. Earth is starting from, effectively, a stand still militarily. Still recoiling from the Xindi attack. That year was very important for Earth. I can only assume that what small scale docks they had at the end of Season 2, were already greatly expanding by the end of Season 3. So those aspects should absolutely be factored into the thinking here. The threat of planetary annihilation would kick our survival instincts into high gear. A lot of this discussion goes to a root problem with the concept of Enterprise as a series and I think it has affected the way people have thought about it for a long time. Enterprise starts off basically trying to tell us that the NX-01 is it. That there are no other ships even remotely like it. We hear one mention of "joint fleet operations" and we deal with a couple cargo ships and that is it. Then, season 2 comes around and out of nowhere we have, apparently, many more ships. It's a flaw in the show that stems from them wanting to do both a conventional Star Trek show and The Right Stuff. Those two things don't go together. If you already have a fleet flying around and it's all fairly established, there is no history with every light year. There is no Right Stuff. The Right Stuff has come and gone already, and space travel is old hat. Sure, you can still do the Magellan in space, and have a ship going out into uncharted areas and exploring, but you can't eat your cake and then have it. It's done and dusted. Honestly I would say don't underestimate the importance of the J-Class cargo ships as technical combat vessels. You have dozens, maybe hundreds, of hulls here, it's easily mass produced, it's modular. You could prop up their engines, replace their pop guns with pulse phase cannons, and attach a lighter module to the stern that gives them different mission profiles. In war, often what happens is the experimental stuff is put to the side in favor of the tried and true. At least, on the larger scale. As Mark pointed out, you wouldn't build just one Franklin. That would be a waste of resources. You invested in a design, you have the "tooling" to construct this hull. You've tested it and worked out the kinks. You would build a dozen of those ships. They could be used like Navy PT boats. Send in MACO commando units on raids, or use it to scout and sneak for a larger attack force. The problem with the NX-01 in a time of war, is it's a big, complicated, multipurpose starship, and as we saw throughout the show, fragile ships. Shran actually makes a remark about how fragile Enterprise seems to be. I could imagine them using parts of NX hulls to build more rugged combat or logistic-centric ships that could do the job without all the extra complicated machinery that would make them as prone to breakage. A lot of the stuff that would end up going away are the creature comforts. I can imagine instead of their being private or roomie cabins on ships you'd have big barracks that house the crew in rotations to save space for weapons and supplies. 25:34 ...You would absolutely need cargo and transport ships. Ships designed to carry all manner of things to outposts and starbases, and to say nothing of longer fleet actions that last weeks and months where resources will begin to dwindle, even with recycling, you still need raw material. You need fuel for the impulse and warp engines, you'll need replacement coils, inducers, power regulators, because they burn out. This is one of the reasons the Starfleet Museum was so appealing to a large number of people. It painted the more rugged and primitive era of this time with strike groups and fleets where they had heavy capital ships, smaller escorts, transports, fuel tugs, troop carriers, scouts, communication ships. Don't be afraid to go the unexpected route because canon might not indicate it ever happened. Canon should never be used to absolutely define the very fine nuances and all the details. Canon should be the bigger picture, with the bigger ideas. There was an Earth Romulan War, the ships used were primitive when compared to the Big E, there was a treat signed via sub space radio and a neutral zone established when the war was over. Those are the big canon details. There's nothing nailed down about what has to or can't exist in the war. The Earth Starfleet could have bloated dramatically during the war, and then just as dramatically shrunk back down in time for TOS where it feels like Starfleet is very thinly spread across a larger region of space.
My theory, which won't be popular but is more likely to be in line with the direction Rick Berman would've taken the show, is that the actual Daedalus class looked more like a refined version of the NX refit, and that the model on Sisko's desk was just an old concept model that never actually went into production; Sisko liked the model and latched onto it during his stint at Utopia Planetia.
To be sure,any starfaring race that a mere two centuries before was transporting by horse,buggy and steam engine could surely scare their neighbors with their level of determination and achievement.from 12 miles an HR to lightspeed and beyond!no wonder the Vulcans we're concerned.
Really great stuff. As to daedalus, I remember reading that they were utilized for the chocrain exploration missions to alpha centori. I have really loved trw and I'm glad that what your discussing here finds it way into the segment s either thru memory alpha or tales of the romulan war segments
From what I've learned from watching multiple Star Trek podcasts the daedalist class Mark 2 was inexpensive to make so they turned more of them out than the NX class and freedoms so they were very well used in the war and as for Warp Delta's go yes they were very good defense ships they are small enough to cover the flanks of larger ships and they also can be used in wolf pack tactics so I would at least have 9 of them to one fleet and from what I've learned they only had one self-defense fleet and that was at the Battle of Seoul under admiral black
The Daedalus class looks like a long haul ship, designed in the early 2240s, to use the new warp 3 engine with the ability to be upgraded. It also looked modular in design so upgrades would be simplified . I would say 20-30 of these were in service when the Romulan war started. Earth needed war ships so the (mark 1 ) were upgraded and sent to fight! Those under construction were built more to war ship standards and faster build times than the NX because of the modular design and experience in building them fast! Like the liberty ship WW2.
It makes sense they took decades to break warp 2 but then advanced to warp 5 faster. Cochrane built a ship to take 3 people a few minutes away from Earth. Going faster wasn’t much use. The following decades were spent on building the infrastructure to support a colony fleet in space. The most important things were size and range. They didn’t need tiny fast ships, they needed ships that could carry hundreds of colonists over many light years to new colonies. All efforts went into this. Only as the interstellar community grew and the borders of unknown space move further away, did the issue of speed become important. Starfleet needed to go further, faster and so all efforts turned to reaching warp 2 then 3 then 4 then 5. With the shipyards in place mass-producing new ships was straight-forward as the technology to build them became available. Starfleet went from the Delta-3 (Ganges, ive heard it called both) to Daedalus, then Freedom class, then NX class in a decade.
In the original series, there were ships that merchants used that would go about warp two or three. That is 100 years or 150 years after Star Trek Enterprise. The earth vessels that you saw in the Klingon attack episode where the clingons were chasing the NX5, were probably planetary defense ships. If they did any exploration they would probably be warped too or warp three and would be warping around the solar system doing certain things. More so military defense. The NX5 could not reach warp 5 without a lot of trouble. They made modifications on route. And it was quoted as a deep space mission. So while there were other spaceships, they were not very fast. The nearest star is alphysatory and it's 4 years. So, assuming you can go 10 times the speed of light, you are pretty much stuck within the confines of our immediate solar system. No deep exploration is really possible in a realistic sense with less than warp 5, which is 140 times the speed of light.
Marshaling the diffuse units into task forces and fleets to get concentrations of force would definitely take a month or two. It would take a year to begin ramping up production of war version NX's with emphasis on weapons rather than science. I wonder what the production rate would be on ship parts, vs full ships? If the production of warp nacelles exceeded that of new ships, and warp coils where the bottleneck on warp speed, you could rapidly improve ships by swapping out nacelles. That would make the structure of the ships make a lot of sense too. Swapping out the warp coils as they became more efficient while maintaining the same reactor.
I'm a fan of the NX era the ships seem more functional and somewhat not too futuristic also there are a bunch of NX/enterprise era ships for kilngons, romulans, federation and even the Borg in the game startrek legacy not the best game ever but has a decent story and is alot of fun in my opinion.
Great as always guys... however you should really check out some WW2 documertaries and see what the US did as far as ramping up of war production... I see a couple of hundred of the older type ships being cranked out in very short order....
Yes, Starfleet cranked up production of the Daedaluses in particular when war broke out because their modular design was quicker to build than the more exotic designs of the NX and Intrepid class vessels.
Nx alpha made it to warp 2.3ish then exploded, Archer took NX Beta to a stable Warp 2.5. And NX Gamma broke warp 3 a year later. I am sure the Daedalus class was designed in parallel for the ECS while the NX was in design for Star fleet.
I'll have to watch the episode again but it seemed like they were actually trying for Warp 3 in the NX-Alpha test flight. Also, Trip made a reference to a Warp 2 survey-class ship in another episode (Singularity) and the way he describes it was like it had been an older design.
No members of the DY-series? I personally think that the fan designs for the ships referenced on a display really help to give a sense of technological progression and the passage of time in the Star Trek universe. The NX-class doesn't do that for me. Sure the Constitution-class is much more powerful but it looks so similar for being a century apart from one another.
Looks great. Also, I think since the 4K release of "Beyond", the Franklin belongs to the Freedom class, but I love the modifications Samuel made to the ship. Would love to see more views of it.
STTOS episode Balance of terror Spock says the war was fought with primitive nuclear weapons. And according to lor the Deadulus class was the ship that won the war. Theres no mention of a NX class in original lor. Enterprise goes against all that so there is parts of it that dont make sense.
Liberty ships took a week if I understand correctly. I would expect the Franklin would be a PT boat equivalent. Pt Boat came from the speed boat segment of the shipbuilding industry. Grab a ship builder that can make messengers with the W4 rated nacelles put a couple of phasers and a torpedo tube on it and let it lose to do what the PT boats in the Mediterranean and Phillipenes did. Give capitol ship captain sleepless noights thinking about speed boats with torpedos.
Personally, I'd prefer designs from the Starfleet Museum (Romulan War Era) over anything based on Enterprise. But that's just my opinion; I await with bated breath everyone who is going to jump all over my opinion, and tell me why i'm wrong. I just never liked the saucer design as a 22nd Century development. I'm not a big fan of Enterprise to begin with, but again, my opinion is in the minority here, for certain.
Yorktown sexy! Daedalus the prototype for explodium armor like used in the Miranda class on Ds9 during the dominion war lol But I’d love to see a modern style ship like first contact style anti borg style of the intrepid on enterprise. It looks similar to the Norway class already so I think they’d be pretty sexy in a anti borg configuration with the intrepid from United earth (not voyagers intrepid) I could see a few cargo ships converted into hospital and troop ships too! That would be a perfect connect to the fact that star fleet is still new so like navies in ww1 & ww2 pressed almost all ships into war time service in some capacity
One thing I've always found odd is that presumably each warp capable civilization is beholden to the same physical laws and yet converged on different starship configurations. Mark is talking about hull shape evolving to a saucer hull optimal design around 13:00. If it's optimal for the humans it should be optimal for everyone else too.
Well, if that were the case, why wouldn't EVERY spacefaring race have a saucer design? There must be other dynamics about how the warp bubble is generated, the stresses it puts on the ship, how good the structural integrity tech is... a whole host of factors would go into it. Even canon Star Trek uses shapes for Starfleet vessels other than the saucer (Oberth, Warp Delta, NX Project test ships, the Phoenix, etc.).
Even accounting for other factors, there should still be convergence in design for civilizations at comparable tech levels. Over time, the "optimal" configuration is reached with differentiation in small details. Look at today's jet fighters from the major powers, they all have the same general shape. Typically, the point is to maximize performance while minimizing resources, thus the convergence in designs.
Well, all jet fighters have to perform in a one-g atmosphere, which means that their design specs are going to be approximately the same if they want to survive, regardless of which country they are produced by. So it's not quite the best analogy, but I do get your point. The way we see it is that humans continue to experiment with different structural designs. After the Phoenix, we see the arrowhead shape (Warp Delta), then a sphere (Daedalus), then a c-saucer (Franklin), then the half-saucer (Intrepid), then finally the full saucer (NX), which they determine is the most efficient design for ships traveling at cruising speed of warp 5 or above. Meanwhile, the older Starfleet ships during wartime are being refitted with newer reactors to get their speeds up since that is cheaper than building all new ships, but those ships still struggle to bear the stresses with their outmoded designs under +warp 5 speeds. It's worth asking... is the humans' saucer/nacelle configuration the BEST possible one? It could be. After the Federation is formed, Fed starships all use that design aesthetic and we never see an Andorian or Vulcan ship design again. Doesn't it make sense that in this new Federation, that they would be taking the best/most efficient design out of all the member races and applying it to the Federation Starfleet? Of course it does. And clearly, the winner of that contest was Earth's saucer/nacelle combination because it becomes the new gold standard for the UFP.
My flippant response is that all starships have to perform in the same environment. :) I realize that if all ships looked the same, it'd be hard for the audience to distinguish between factions. One of the ways I can see to avoid the convergence to a common design is that the shapes don't matter with regard to the warp field generation/usage. The Borg fly around in cubes.
I thought about that too, but there are lots of different things to consider. The spacecraft not only generates a warp field but a defensive force field too, so maybe to keep shield strength at a high level during warp speed means favoring different shapes or somethin. Then you have to use weapons while traveling at warp while the shields are up, so maybe to get the best results for shields means shaping the spaceship one way and getting better speed or weapon effect means shaping things different. I also like the idea that when encountering aliens they and their tech look as alien as possible.
The Discovery class, in my "Head Canon" would be the first warp cruiser, fusion powered at warp 3. The early cargo ships would be warp 2 fusion powered ships. The ships with the saucer look would be the new antimatter powered ships with the Enterprise/ Columbia class being produced before the war. The Franklin Class would be the first antimatter powered ships designed to replace the Warp Deltas. The Conestoga Class would be fusion powered along with the older cargo ships. The newest cargo ship would be the first antimatter powered ship after the cargo fleet was updated for the war. (Liberty ships in WW2 were triple expansion steam powered, not turbines like a warship). The Daedalus Class survivors needing battle damage repair and new build models called the Moskova Class would get antimatter and w5 tech nacelles. Picture a Daedalus with bodybuilder frame and an "Armored War Belt" around the sphere that resembles a saucer. The near saucer shape would improve the "warp dynamics" enough to permit warp 4+ speeds while the weapons and armor would bring parity with the Romulans. The new Moskova's having a war belt, could be refitted back to regular ships with a "science belt" after the war. The Yorktown class would be built in the "Warp 5 project" yards. The nacelles, engineering hull and saucer production being all under 1 roof making it quick to design and assemble the new technology into a warship configuration. This would be one of the first ships truly designed to bring offensive punch to Starfleet. It's appearance would be one of the factors forcing the Romulans into negotiations.
The episode in Enterpris where archer breaks the warp 2 barrier. It should’ve been him breaking the warp five barrier while testing the engine it would eventually go into NX class of ship. Obviously, if they’re gonna build a full ship, they would test the work engine first on smaller models. That way all the other ships before that would’ve made more sense. Why would they build so many shits and models before the NX they could never go more than warp 1.
I always picture the Daedalus was a cheap build vs. the NX Enterprise was longer to build, the Daedalus is faster to build for war, it's four cylinders and a simple ball. Also the Daedalus class from TOS was still in use.
Commander Cocking, do you and Captain Foley plan on doing a top 10 for Star Trek Discovery ships? Both Federation and alien? Just curious. I really like when you two made those videos. As always, please continue making it so.
If Starfleet/earth couldn’t go past war one until archer wrote the war to barrier only about seven years before the NX class it would’ve been impractical for them to make so many different ships that only went warp one. War one is still relatively slow if war one is just the speed of light it would still take four years to get to Alpha Sensory
I think you need to separate warp from ships, with the ships they are trying out different designs and seperatly they are testing the Warp systems(as shown in Ent). So basically they are upgrading Cochrans warp system so once they figure out warp 2 they can easily upgrade the warp 1 engines to warp 2 unlike the cargo ships whom don't have the resources of starfleet to do a full upgrade.
In trw it tells you that the nxs took too long as compared to other ships took. They said the daedalus could be built in 1/2 or 1/3 the time it takes to build one nx and yet the nxs got clobbered
We can fix the date issue and the 10 years between warp 2 and warp 5 by asserting that number is wrong. Consider that the ECS Horizon, Mayweather's childhood home freighter, was capable of warp 1.8 without pods and was 50 years old, Launched in 2101. So 2101 to 2142 containing zero progress? Wrong. Even with the Vulcans actively holding Earth back, humans would have updated and built several designs. A Daedalus launch of 2123 makes sense and the Archer drive progress makes more sense in relation to the progress of the Archer drive itself, not humanity's warp drive progression itself.
If you want a study in technological advancement, look at the development of the steam locomotive, started slow, lots of mistakes made at the start. After a period of time, a number of improvements on the basic locomotive lead to an exponential improvement of technology. Funnily enough, most tech we create follows a similar path, so why wouldn't warp development follow a similar path?
I can see the nx01 & the Novan colony ship as the two ships that played a historic part of the Yorktown which is after both ships when warp core n building abilities improved
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One of the major problem with sci-fi is numbers, logically speaking Earth should have dozens of orbital shipyards, with each having multiple dry docks. Starfleet would have thousands of ships, not a handful. 40 - 50 is not going to be enough to provide adequate protection to the spacelines, that are need for trade.
You've got to account for the fact that this is roughly 100 years after WW3 which would decimate the planet and (probably) render large sections radioactive. They probably spent most of that time cleaning that up rather than building shipyards to build exploration and defence craft. So it's not beyond reason that their production capacity would be small at that time. During TOS/TNG era though there should have been hundreds of thousands of ships around (Rather than the whole "Enterprise is the only vessel in range" silliness) but low numbers can be excused in the Enterprise era
TheDjbz that excuse doesn't really hold up, during that time they have built off world colonies, commited a great deal of resources in scientific endeavors. When there is a few billion people on the planet, one small shipyard is not going to cut it, for the demand.
It sounds like there is a misunderstanding of canon here. Starfleet and humans obviously didn't have much out there. And what they did wasn't fast enough to really do anything to aid in the war. The reality is that the war was largely fought by the other members of the federation made stronger by working together which was facilitated by Humans. Also the United Earth did already fight an interstellar war with warp1 ships, but in the opposite direction. It seems reasonable to assume that there was series of warp1 warships at the edges of human space... So they'd be strong but once wiped out they're gone
We follow canon properly. Keeping in mind of course that there is little to no canon about the extent of Starfleet assets during this time period (canon does not include books, audios, games, or fan theories, btw). And when you see our finished film, you will understand what role and to what extent the other members of the Coalition of Planets play in the conflict. As for your notion about Earth having already fought "an interstellar war with warp 1 ships"... well, of course that is NOT canon, but stay tuned... we have some ideas about that that. To be continued...
I do not like the Franklin design, it just doesn't look right to me. I did not like the Daedalus design til I saw M.C. Henry's redesign which I think now looks fantastic! I do like the NX-01. I do like the Warp Delta.
The Franklin would be a mass produced medium class warship of the line along with the intrepid that would make up the backbone of starfleet like the steam runner or sabre class of the dominion war the Daedalus would be the Excelsior class of its time and Nx and Yorktown the galaxy and sovereigns
Damn I love that ship design. My favourite from legacy. The only problem with this fan film is that I won't see any of those ships in it. The discovery, posiedon, minuteman, strider all great ships.
A general Daedalus comment: I never liked the idea of the Daedalus being both a pre-Enterprise ship (that served up to 2199) or it having such a TOS aesthetic. Part of the latter is both the Trek art department & later fans taking a very early, rough concept sketch by Matt Jefferies and running with it without refining it. It is doubly problematic when we accept the NX Enterprise-era is canon and that most depictions of the Daedalus (officially licensed or not) look really dated compared to every other Earth ship at the time. I would make the Daedalus one of the late/post Romulan War warp 7 ships, and give it a heavily NX-era inspired design but with the same basic shape. It wasn't supposed to be seen flying with the Connie, and it is unrealistic to expect the TOS asthethic to last a century.
Post WW1 ships got gutted and had new engines , so why not use the same line of thinking in trek. After all some ww1 BB could only make 21 knots after upgrades they often made 28 knots. If you can see my reasoning weapons and other things can be massively improved if the need is strong enough
It's a shame Enterprise was canceled before they could do the Earth-Romulan War. The episodes featuring the politics between the major powers are some of my favorites. Enterprise made me love Andorians. I still get goosebumps every time I watch the episodes that end with Earth, Vulcan, Andorian and Tellarite vessels flying in formation. I was waiting for them to eventually introduce a Captain or Commander Stiles at some point in the series as well.
Most gutting thing the way Enterprise ended was horrific.
You could read the novels. They’re pretty good.
That is because the people who are bashing discovery now where the same people who where bashing enterprise then.
To me the reason it got cancelled was due to the lackluster writing after the end of the Xindi crisis. That last series was just boring in comparison to the tension, action and sense of mortality for the ship and charecters that the Xindi arc gave. I know it would have been too much to go straight into the Romulan war arc but they could have started on the diplomatic tensions and skirmishes to set the environment.
John Smith I loved Enterprise, with all it's flaws, it had better characters, designs, they made an effort for it to fit into canon as best as it could...Proper tech, with some mistakes here or there, proper starship size, good enough visual look... etc.. I'm very far from loving Discovery as they have 0 interest in respecting canon, visually, technologically and event story-wise... and most characters are... wanting... and has SJW overkill all over the place.
Star Trek: Enterprise Season 7 what could have been.
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The timeline between Warp 2 and Warp 5 in 10 years kind of makes sense. Look at aircraft. It took forever to break the sound barrier, 6 years later we hit mach 3, and six years after that we went hyper-sonic. Since Warp is exponential, it makes sense that the jump from warp 1-2 would take a while (like the Apollo Missions, they didn't even know what they didn't know yet), but after they figured out that hurdle, it would be a matter of degrees (i.e. more power, more warp coils, different dilithium configurations, etc.). Advancement would come quicker (which could also indicate why the warp 4 Franklin and the warp 5 Enterprise designs are so similar. The Enterprise designers took many design cues from the Franklin, and altered it to accommodate the warp 5 engine, utilize better hull plating and manufacturing techniques, and generally serve as the Starfleet flagship and ship-of-the-line.
Actually, I wrote all of this and thought of something else. What if the Franklin and Enterprise were two ships built by different companies bidding for a Starfleet contract (like the Advanced Tactical Fighter program that led to the development of the F-22)? Starfleet commissioned proposals for a new ship of the line needing a warp 5 engine. One company produced the Franklin, which had an engine design which was the first to get to warp 4 but became unstable nearer warp 5. The other was the Enterprise, which had the superior engine designed by Archer, won the contract and was then designated NX-01 when it was commissioned. The Franklin was put in mothballs for a while, but was refitted with an Archer warp 5 engine and commissioned as the NX-326 for the war.
I thought Franklin was a MACO ship and Enterprise was an exploration ship. Different branches of Starfleet wanted different designs for different jobs. Like the US navy and USMC have their own ship. Franklin-class is a short ranged transport and combat vessel for hauling marines between colonies. NX-01 is a long range cruiser designed to go years between resupply and refit.
I think people forget that when archer and starfleet was testing the NX Alpha Beta Delta they were testing the warp 5 engine for the NX class. I think they already achieved warp 4 they just were testing the warp 5 engine.
well the franklin was commisioned AFTER enterprise and columbia were built , so no they were not influnced by the franklin. the reason why the franklin wasn't a warp 5 was they worked on warp field stability on that class and this had the efect of reducing over all speed but allowed the ship to maintain it's max warp longer.
These intro animations are *getting out of control!!* Absolutely brilliant, dynamic, and so detailed and interesting for anyone that loves the design and forms of ships that it's hard to express how great it is to see these things come to life like never before.
Can't thank you enough for working so hard to bring these kind of quality visuals to the rest of us!
I would love to see Poseidon and Minuteman class ships in the Romulan war.
Thank you for re-designing the Franklin and getting rid of that huge ugly orange stripe around it that made it look like a Romulan warbird
Use warship production numbers for WW2 to get a sense of what they might be able to produce. Cargo ships would be built like the liberty ships, dozens a month using older, rock solid ,warp technologies. In WW2 liberty ships used triple expansion stem engines with a liquid fueled boiler. Warships used steam turbines which were a whole different step ahead in efficiency and power.
The Daedalus class would have been the equivalent of the 4 stack destroyers of WW2. Capable ships when they were built, but still fuelled by coal and needing to be updated. I would expect the wartime build Daedalus classes to be antimatter/ warp and have phasers rather than lasers and torpedoes rather than missiles. I would expect them to look somewhat refit like when the engenering hull was put on the Enterprize.
I think the Romulan war books were great and explained fleet development.
I think the Franklin class was designed to be a replacement to the warp delta and to combat the smaller Romulan ships you see in the Ent episode Minefield.
I dislike how they opted for the Daedalus class production. Should’ve stuck with the Intrepid class. It’s so chad.
Totally true!! Although I don't know why it was taking Starfleet so long to refit the Enterprise and we get stuck with the already refitted Endeavour in the later books.
Too bad none of the novels are considered cannon...
@@Stinger913 In the books they explain why they went for Daedalus class production. While not the most powerful, the daedalus was the fastest to produce they had, and they needed as many hulls for convoy duty as possible.
I really need to buy those.
Early Star Fleet would act sort of like a space going Coast guard to Civilian shipping. Like our modern Coast Guard it would also be heavily involved in research and exploration. In my mind I see it by the Enterprise era resembling the US Navy in the 1790's. Small kid on the block but with a mean uppercut.
It would seem that given the limited spacedock / orbital shipyard resources and the fact that bulk cargo ships probably greatly outnumbered other human ships, you would THINK that after the Xindi affair they would at least have developed small drone fighter craft or something that maybe can be carried by the freighters. It would make sense, since these small drones could be mass produced on the ground and then transported to orbit by cargo shuttles or tugs instead of occupying time and space in orbital shipyards, and of course there would be little refit/upgrade requirement on the frieghters other than cargo pods that can launch the drones and then recover them (basically each fighter launches from it's own cargo pod, and each pod would have an extending docking arm to capture surviving drones and pull them back into their cargo pods for stowage. it seems like it would be a quick and relatively cheap way to reduce the escort requirements of shipping convoys while also being able to utilize some cargo ships as full blown military assets to augment star fleet vessels.
I just love the Yorktown it looks great real rough and ready battle ship that’s pushing the limits of technology for the time great job guys
I really appreciate this iteration of the Yorktown! It so perfectly fits the era and has such a logical form follows function appeal while also managing to look powerful and practical at the same time. Excellent work!
I agree I would’ve loved to see it in at least one movie or show
A more realistic scenario for this story would be, the Daedalus would be the standard workhorse for the early Earth Fleet. A multi role ship performing exploration, colony patrol and transport missions. Earth would maintain a fleet of 100 to 150 Daedalus ships. The Warp Delta would be assigned to Patrol, search and rescue. Acting almost like the Coast Guard, Deltas would be assigned to each colony system, 1 Squadron of 2 to 4 ships. Franklins would supplement the Deltas, also acting as scouts for NX class.
At the start of the Romulan War, older Daedalus and fast civilian cargo ships would be locally retrofitted with missiles and phase cannon, rushed to them by stripped down Franklins.
Good show. Interesting. Yeah, So much was left to be done in Enterprise.
I love the Delta ships which to me could be used as stealth ships in real life. The Interpid class reminds me of the Later Miranda class light cruiser. Of course the Daedalus may not be a heavy combat ship but boy is it practical for non combat duties as well as being retrofitted for such a duty. I'm coming here after seeing Romulan War Part one and cant wait for Part 2. I'm excited to see what you guys will end up doing.
Edit I believe the first ships that actually did warp 2 or close were the J and Y class freighters and that was more so at the turn of the 22nd century.
I think the warp deltas would be a ship that at least would’ve been upgraded with new engines as the nx ships got their warp 7 engines! They could use the old warp 5s to beef up the walkers n deltas so they could help in the fight.
I agree though deltas would be great stealth or scouts n ya the Daedalus is ugly but functional is most important in all ships even new ones over looks
Besides the window and that honestly canon breaking line about warp speed (Which can easily be explained away as another Franklin before the NX-01 they got confused with) it fits. Discovery fit the windows into the Prime Timeline and it's implied that certain ships did have them. It's like the U wings in Star Wars. They weren't in the trilogy but things changed and now they're a staple. It also explains why they're in the Kelvin Universe. It was a tech Star Fleet had access to but after having issues with Romulans they had windows added back on and improved. In fact in the original series it was shown that the cloaking devices didn't completely hide them from sight but did stop them from being scanned. Perhaps that's why ships from the era the Franklin is from (During the first Romulan war) have windows in order to spot anomalies that could be cloaked ships.
I personally think the Daedulus would come after the NX, and if you look at the linage, from the warp delta, to the half saucer in the intrepid, to a full saucer in the NX. They probably though, "well a full saucer was more effective compared to the half saucer, so let's try to double down on this and do a sphere." Then came the Daedulus, and it was a step too far, so they stepped back.
From an engineering standpoint the sphere definately came first. It is easier to pressurize and seal...however and I quote Joseph Reinemann here since he has answered that on Quora: "A sphere doesn't have much surface area for its volume, and from an engineering perspective that's really bad for a space ship. You want a high amount of surface area so that you can radiate more heat. And the best way to fix that problem while still retaining the desirable qualities of a spherical pressure vessel is to basically squash the sphere until it becomes a saucer…"
You also need fewer decks so you can access more space on one level without the need for using an elevator or stairs which is quicker and more convenient.
So there really is not much need to go back to a sphere when you already have build a saucer...
If you already know that a sphere is really bad for a space ship, you would bypass that first and go to a saucer. Then try out the sphere to test if the sphere would function differently in a warp field.
Well, less surface area also means less materials needed for the hull plating. So in the early days of space flight, when everything still has to be send to space from earth, a sphere might be actually preferable over a saucer shape because it´s cheaper to build.
On the other hand the difference between a sphere and a saucer (or a brick for that matter) should not make much of a difference inside a warp bubble as space is bend outside of the warp field not inside of it....
I totally agree. It should be the "new design" after the NX. They would make maybe one or two Daedalus class ships as R&D vessels (the presence of a secondary hull and a round saucer indicates it might even have been designed about the same time or possibly later than the NX refit). Then, after its initial flight trials and battle drills, when they discovered the sphere didn't work as well as they thought, future Starfleet designs would revert back to the saucer shape. The Daedalus ships would probably then be used in an alternate role.
The U.S. Navy does this all the time, their "test" ships are commissioned ships of the line, just with experimental tech, or existing ships are refitted with experimental equipment for field testing. Even if that equipment or test ship fails, it remains commissioned and remains part of the fleet. Sometimes those R&D ships where the design didn't work as it was supposed to get reassigned to another, rear echelon or supporting role, but sometimes they remain as ships of the line. Either way, they stay commissioned.
@c4blew, nope. By the time Enterprise aired, it was already 100 years since first contact, and other ships were already built. It would not have been an issue to ship materials to space. You're assuming that hull plating had to be shipped up. So you're basically exchanging deck materials for hull plating. You still have to ship materials for internal volume. You could make the argument that they mainly had the internal volume be cargo space, or empty space, but even if they did that, you would at best break even in terms of raw materials needed. They're not going to leave a giant hollow center.
This is also very early in Starfleet history and in Earth warp design. They're going to experiment. You're assuming that they know more than they did.
i always look forward to seeing trek yards content in my box :)
They need to get the cast back together and do one season of the Romulan war.
Congratulations! Your work on the Romulan War is brilliant!!!
Thanks to trekyards, and watching it since 3 years i started buying and collecting ship figures :D
🖖😎👍Very cool and very well done indeed guys 👌.
Kind of ignoring the fact that the ships in Enterprise are re-designs of the ships shown in First Contact. The Nx-01 (Upside down Akira class) Intrepid (Steamrunner class)Delta (Sabre class)
21:33 You should watch some World War 2 documentaries and start seeing just how fast things speed up when war breaks out.
Construction docks go from putting out one ship a year to one ship in two months. They had the Enterprise refit and ready for battle in mere days after she was nearly taken out of the fight completely.
You also have to factor in that the Romulans were seemingly preparing for this conflict for quite awhile before they started their drone-ship experiments in Enterprise. Earth is starting from, effectively, a stand still militarily. Still recoiling from the Xindi attack. That year was very important for Earth. I can only assume that what small scale docks they had at the end of Season 2, were already greatly expanding by the end of Season 3. So those aspects should absolutely be factored into the thinking here.
The threat of planetary annihilation would kick our survival instincts into high gear.
A lot of this discussion goes to a root problem with the concept of Enterprise as a series and I think it has affected the way people have thought about it for a long time.
Enterprise starts off basically trying to tell us that the NX-01 is it. That there are no other ships even remotely like it. We hear one mention of "joint fleet operations" and we deal with a couple cargo ships and that is it. Then, season 2 comes around and out of nowhere we have, apparently, many more ships.
It's a flaw in the show that stems from them wanting to do both a conventional Star Trek show and The Right Stuff. Those two things don't go together. If you already have a fleet flying around and it's all fairly established, there is no history with every light year. There is no Right Stuff. The Right Stuff has come and gone already, and space travel is old hat. Sure, you can still do the Magellan in space, and have a ship going out into uncharted areas and exploring, but you can't eat your cake and then have it. It's done and dusted.
Honestly I would say don't underestimate the importance of the J-Class cargo ships as technical combat vessels. You have dozens, maybe hundreds, of hulls here, it's easily mass produced, it's modular. You could prop up their engines, replace their pop guns with pulse phase cannons, and attach a lighter module to the stern that gives them different mission profiles.
In war, often what happens is the experimental stuff is put to the side in favor of the tried and true. At least, on the larger scale. As Mark pointed out, you wouldn't build just one Franklin. That would be a waste of resources. You invested in a design, you have the "tooling" to construct this hull. You've tested it and worked out the kinks. You would build a dozen of those ships. They could be used like Navy PT boats. Send in MACO commando units on raids, or use it to scout and sneak for a larger attack force.
The problem with the NX-01 in a time of war, is it's a big, complicated, multipurpose starship, and as we saw throughout the show, fragile ships. Shran actually makes a remark about how fragile Enterprise seems to be.
I could imagine them using parts of NX hulls to build more rugged combat or logistic-centric ships that could do the job without all the extra complicated machinery that would make them as prone to breakage.
A lot of the stuff that would end up going away are the creature comforts. I can imagine instead of their being private or roomie cabins on ships you'd have big barracks that house the crew in rotations to save space for weapons and supplies.
25:34
...You would absolutely need cargo and transport ships. Ships designed to carry all manner of things to outposts and starbases, and to say nothing of longer fleet actions that last weeks and months where resources will begin to dwindle, even with recycling, you still need raw material. You need fuel for the impulse and warp engines, you'll need replacement coils, inducers, power regulators, because they burn out.
This is one of the reasons the Starfleet Museum was so appealing to a large number of people. It painted the more rugged and primitive era of this time with strike groups and fleets where they had heavy capital ships, smaller escorts, transports, fuel tugs, troop carriers, scouts, communication ships.
Don't be afraid to go the unexpected route because canon might not indicate it ever happened. Canon should never be used to absolutely define the very fine nuances and all the details. Canon should be the bigger picture, with the bigger ideas. There was an Earth Romulan War, the ships used were primitive when compared to the Big E, there was a treat signed via sub space radio and a neutral zone established when the war was over. Those are the big canon details. There's nothing nailed down about what has to or can't exist in the war. The Earth Starfleet could have bloated dramatically during the war, and then just as dramatically shrunk back down in time for TOS where it feels like Starfleet is very thinly spread across a larger region of space.
My theory, which won't be popular but is more likely to be in line with the direction Rick Berman would've taken the show, is that the actual Daedalus class looked more like a refined version of the NX refit, and that the model on Sisko's desk was just an old concept model that never actually went into production; Sisko liked the model and latched onto it during his stint at Utopia Planetia.
To be sure,any starfaring race that a mere two centuries before was transporting by horse,buggy and steam engine could surely scare their neighbors with their level of determination and achievement.from 12 miles an HR to lightspeed and beyond!no wonder the Vulcans we're concerned.
Really great stuff. As to daedalus, I remember reading that they were utilized for the chocrain exploration missions to alpha centori. I have really loved trw and I'm glad that what your discussing here finds it way into the segment s either thru memory alpha or tales of the romulan war segments
Daedulus the first miranda'd ship in the fleet
Yeah, but it wasnt getting blown up several times when ever it got shown on screen x3
First hull made out of explodium.
From what I've learned from watching multiple Star Trek podcasts the daedalist class Mark 2 was inexpensive to make so they turned more of them out than the NX class and freedoms so they were very well used in the war and as for Warp Delta's go yes they were very good defense ships they are small enough to cover the flanks of larger ships and they also can be used in wolf pack tactics so I would at least have 9 of them to one fleet and from what I've learned they only had one self-defense fleet and that was at the Battle of Seoul under admiral black
The Daedalus class looks like a long haul ship, designed in the early 2240s, to use the new warp 3 engine with the ability to be upgraded. It also looked modular in design so upgrades would be simplified . I would say 20-30 of these were in service when the Romulan war started. Earth needed war ships so the (mark 1 ) were upgraded and sent to fight! Those under construction were built more to war ship standards and faster build times than the NX because of the modular design and experience in building them fast! Like the liberty ship WW2.
Another great video for these brilliant long summer nights. :)
It makes sense they took decades to break warp 2 but then advanced to warp 5 faster. Cochrane built a ship to take 3 people a few minutes away from Earth. Going faster wasn’t much use. The following decades were spent on building the infrastructure to support a colony fleet in space. The most important things were size and range. They didn’t need tiny fast ships, they needed ships that could carry hundreds of colonists over many light years to new colonies. All efforts went into this. Only as the interstellar community grew and the borders of unknown space move further away, did the issue of speed become important. Starfleet needed to go further, faster and so all efforts turned to reaching warp 2 then 3 then 4 then 5.
With the shipyards in place mass-producing new ships was straight-forward as the technology to build them became available. Starfleet went from the Delta-3 (Ganges, ive heard it called both) to Daedalus, then Freedom class, then NX class in a decade.
In the original series, there were ships that merchants used that would go about warp two or three. That is 100 years or 150 years after Star Trek Enterprise. The earth vessels that you saw in the Klingon attack episode where the clingons were chasing the NX5, were probably planetary defense ships. If they did any exploration they would probably be warped too or warp three and would be warping around the solar system doing certain things. More so military defense. The NX5 could not reach warp 5 without a lot of trouble. They made modifications on route. And it was quoted as a deep space mission. So while there were other spaceships, they were not very fast. The nearest star is alphysatory and it's 4 years. So, assuming you can go 10 times the speed of light, you are pretty much stuck within the confines of our immediate solar system. No deep exploration is really possible in a realistic sense with less than warp 5, which is 140 times the speed of light.
Marshaling the diffuse units into task forces and fleets to get concentrations of force would definitely take a month or two. It would take a year to begin ramping up production of war version NX's with emphasis on weapons rather than science. I wonder what the production rate would be on ship parts, vs full ships? If the production of warp nacelles exceeded that of new ships, and warp coils where the bottleneck on warp speed, you could rapidly improve ships by swapping out nacelles. That would make the structure of the ships make a lot of sense too. Swapping out the warp coils as they became more efficient while maintaining the same reactor.
Yes to everything you said.
I'm a fan of the NX era the ships seem more functional and somewhat not too futuristic also there are a bunch of NX/enterprise era ships for kilngons, romulans, federation and even the Borg in the game startrek legacy not the best game ever but has a decent story and is alot of fun in my opinion.
Great as always guys... however you should really check out some WW2 documertaries and see what the US did as far as ramping up of war production... I see a couple of hundred of the older type ships being cranked out in very short order....
Yes, Starfleet cranked up production of the Daedaluses in particular when war broke out because their modular design was quicker to build than the more exotic designs of the NX and Intrepid class vessels.
Dadelius was originally a Warp 2 ship. NX-Alpha was the first vessel to break Warp 3 if I remember.
Nx alpha made it to warp 2.3ish then exploded, Archer took NX Beta to a stable Warp 2.5. And NX Gamma broke warp 3 a year later. I am sure the Daedalus class was designed in parallel for the ECS while the NX was in design for Star fleet.
I'll have to watch the episode again but it seemed like they were actually trying for Warp 3 in the NX-Alpha test flight. Also, Trip made a reference to a Warp 2 survey-class ship in another episode (Singularity) and the way he describes it was like it had been an older design.
No members of the DY-series? I personally think that the fan designs for the ships referenced on a display really help to give a sense of technological progression and the passage of time in the Star Trek universe. The NX-class doesn't do that for me. Sure the Constitution-class is much more powerful but it looks so similar for being a century apart from one another.
He had me hooked with the Daedalus Class ship!
Do not forget the Romulan War novels that depict the Romulan hijacking weapon
Would love to see a star trek series set during the Romulan war
Looks great. Also, I think since the 4K release of "Beyond", the Franklin belongs to the Freedom class, but I love the modifications Samuel made to the ship. Would love to see more views of it.
STTOS episode Balance of terror Spock says the war was fought with primitive nuclear weapons. And according to lor the Deadulus class was the ship that won the war. Theres no mention of a NX class in original lor. Enterprise goes against all that so there is parts of it that dont make sense.
Liberty ships took a week if I understand correctly. I would expect the Franklin would be a PT boat equivalent. Pt Boat came from the speed boat segment of the shipbuilding industry. Grab a ship builder that can make messengers with the W4 rated nacelles put a couple of phasers and a torpedo tube on it and let it lose to do what the PT boats in the Mediterranean and Phillipenes did. Give capitol ship captain sleepless noights thinking about speed boats with torpedos.
It was mainly Daedalus’s I recall. All the NX ships seem to either get destroyed or lost.
Personally, I'd prefer designs from the Starfleet Museum (Romulan War Era) over anything based on Enterprise. But that's just my opinion; I await with bated breath everyone who is going to jump all over my opinion, and tell me why i'm wrong. I just never liked the saucer design as a 22nd Century development. I'm not a big fan of Enterprise to begin with, but again, my opinion is in the minority here, for certain.
Do not rule out seeing Starfleet Museum designs in this film. In fact, COUNT on it!
Cool!
Yorktown sexy! Daedalus the prototype for explodium armor like used in the Miranda class on Ds9 during the dominion war lol
But I’d love to see a modern style ship like first contact style anti borg style of the intrepid on enterprise. It looks similar to the Norway class already so I think they’d be pretty sexy in a anti borg configuration with the intrepid from United earth (not voyagers intrepid)
I could see a few cargo ships converted into hospital and troop ships too! That would be a perfect connect to the fact that star fleet is still new so like navies in ww1 & ww2 pressed almost all ships into war time service in some capacity
The freedom class was the most premier warp four ship in the fleet at the beginning of the war
One thing I've always found odd is that presumably each warp capable civilization is beholden to the same physical laws and yet converged on different starship configurations. Mark is talking about hull shape evolving to a saucer hull optimal design around 13:00. If it's optimal for the humans it should be optimal for everyone else too.
Well, if that were the case, why wouldn't EVERY spacefaring race have a saucer design? There must be other dynamics about how the warp bubble is generated, the stresses it puts on the ship, how good the structural integrity tech is... a whole host of factors would go into it. Even canon Star Trek uses shapes for Starfleet vessels other than the saucer (Oberth, Warp Delta, NX Project test ships, the Phoenix, etc.).
Even accounting for other factors, there should still be convergence in design for civilizations at comparable tech levels. Over time, the "optimal" configuration is reached with differentiation in small details. Look at today's jet fighters from the major powers, they all have the same general shape. Typically, the point is to maximize performance while minimizing resources, thus the convergence in designs.
Well, all jet fighters have to perform in a one-g atmosphere, which means that their design specs are going to be approximately the same if they want to survive, regardless of which country they are produced by.
So it's not quite the best analogy, but I do get your point.
The way we see it is that humans continue to experiment with different structural designs. After the Phoenix, we see the arrowhead shape (Warp Delta), then a sphere (Daedalus), then a c-saucer (Franklin), then the half-saucer (Intrepid), then finally the full saucer (NX), which they determine is the most efficient design for ships traveling at cruising speed of warp 5 or above. Meanwhile, the older Starfleet ships during wartime are being refitted with newer reactors to get their speeds up since that is cheaper than building all new ships, but those ships still struggle to bear the stresses with their outmoded designs under +warp 5 speeds.
It's worth asking... is the humans' saucer/nacelle configuration the BEST possible one? It could be. After the Federation is formed, Fed starships all use that design aesthetic and we never see an Andorian or Vulcan ship design again. Doesn't it make sense that in this new Federation, that they would be taking the best/most efficient design out of all the member races and applying it to the Federation Starfleet? Of course it does. And clearly, the winner of that contest was Earth's saucer/nacelle combination because it becomes the new gold standard for the UFP.
My flippant response is that all starships have to perform in the same environment. :) I realize that if all ships looked the same, it'd be hard for the audience to distinguish between factions. One of the ways I can see to avoid the convergence to a common design is that the shapes don't matter with regard to the warp field generation/usage. The Borg fly around in cubes.
I thought about that too, but there are lots of different things to consider. The spacecraft not only generates a warp field but a defensive force field too, so maybe to keep shield strength at a high level during warp speed means favoring different shapes or somethin. Then you have to use weapons while traveling at warp while the shields are up, so maybe to get the best results for shields means shaping the spaceship one way and getting better speed or weapon effect means shaping things different.
I also like the idea that when encountering aliens they and their tech look as alien as possible.
The Discovery class, in my "Head Canon" would be the first warp cruiser, fusion powered at warp 3. The early cargo ships would be warp 2 fusion powered ships. The ships with the saucer look would be the new antimatter powered ships with the Enterprise/ Columbia class being produced before the war. The Franklin Class would be the first antimatter powered ships designed to replace the Warp Deltas.
The Conestoga Class would be fusion powered along with the older cargo ships. The newest cargo ship would be the first antimatter powered ship after the cargo fleet was updated for the war. (Liberty ships in WW2 were triple expansion steam powered, not turbines like a warship).
The Daedalus Class survivors needing battle damage repair and new build models called the Moskova Class would get antimatter and w5 tech nacelles. Picture a Daedalus with bodybuilder frame and an "Armored War Belt" around the sphere that resembles a saucer. The near saucer shape would improve the "warp dynamics" enough to permit warp 4+ speeds while the weapons and armor would bring parity with the Romulans. The new Moskova's having a war belt, could be refitted back to regular ships with a "science belt" after the war.
The Yorktown class would be built in the "Warp 5 project" yards. The nacelles, engineering hull and saucer production being all under 1 roof making it quick to design and assemble the new technology into a warship configuration. This would be one of the first ships truly designed to bring offensive punch to Starfleet. It's appearance would be one of the factors forcing the Romulans into negotiations.
Obviously the Daedalus and Franklin are newer than the NX-01. This guy is nuts.
The episode in Enterpris where archer breaks the warp 2 barrier.
It should’ve been him breaking the warp five barrier while testing the engine it would eventually go into NX class of ship.
Obviously, if they’re gonna build a full ship, they would test the work engine first on smaller models.
That way all the other ships before that would’ve made more sense.
Why would they build so many shits and models before the NX they could never go more than warp 1.
I always picture the Daedalus was a cheap build vs. the NX Enterprise was longer to build, the Daedalus is faster to build for war, it's four cylinders and a simple ball. Also the Daedalus class from TOS was still in use.
Commander Cocking, do you and Captain Foley plan on doing a top 10 for Star Trek Discovery ships? Both Federation and alien? Just curious. I really like when you two made those videos. As always, please continue making it so.
If Starfleet/earth couldn’t go past war one until archer wrote the war to barrier only about seven years before the NX class it would’ve been impractical for them to make so many different ships that only went warp one.
War one is still relatively slow if war one is just the speed of light it would still take four years to get to Alpha Sensory
I think you need to separate warp from ships, with the ships they are trying out different designs and seperatly they are testing the Warp systems(as shown in Ent). So basically they are upgrading Cochrans warp system so once they figure out warp 2 they can easily upgrade the warp 1 engines to warp 2 unlike the cargo ships whom don't have the resources of starfleet to do a full upgrade.
In trw it tells you that the nxs took too long as compared to other ships took. They said the daedalus could be built in 1/2 or 1/3 the time it takes to build one nx and yet the nxs got clobbered
Maybe a shapechanger that rides on the short yellow bus.
I don't see how a more streamlined shape would have any effects on a ship using a warp bubble .Look at the borg cube
I guess while Archer was pilot the warp 3 engine for Starfleet I thought the Franklin was a Maco ship.
How did they fit the crew of the Enterprise in the Franklin? Or did they all get left behind on the planet?
At 20min.40sec, the warp3 ship looks like a Xwing.
On the Franklin. Replace the window with the deflector... That would look cool.
Arik Bord That's what I was thinking
Why aren't the Romulan ships in the "Romulan War" fan film included in this video?
I wouldn't include the Franklin, although I do like the changes. That leading zero, though...
Is there a review for the Yorktown class for The Romulan War? I think the design is great
So, what's the status of the Romulan War project?
I would assume they would of weaponised some of the freightors. They would make great glass canons.
Ohhhh, I LIKE THIS VERY, VERY MUCH.
Nobody going to talk about the first warp 8 vessel :/
We can fix the date issue and the 10 years between warp 2 and warp 5 by asserting that number is wrong. Consider that the ECS Horizon, Mayweather's childhood home freighter, was capable of warp 1.8 without pods and was 50 years old, Launched in 2101. So 2101 to 2142 containing zero progress? Wrong. Even with the Vulcans actively holding Earth back, humans would have updated and built several designs. A Daedalus launch of 2123 makes sense and the Archer drive progress makes more sense in relation to the progress of the Archer drive itself, not humanity's warp drive progression itself.
If you want a study in technological advancement, look at the development of the steam locomotive, started slow, lots of mistakes made at the start. After a period of time, a number of improvements on the basic locomotive lead to an exponential improvement of technology. Funnily enough, most tech we create follows a similar path, so why wouldn't warp development follow a similar path?
What are the sources for any of the ships not seen in the series?
What relation is the Yorktown class here to the Yorktown class on Star Trek: Legacy?
I can see the nx01 & the Novan colony ship as the two ships that played a historic part of the Yorktown which is after both ships when warp core n building abilities improved
The Kelvin timeline split supposedly affected it's own past due to the butterfly effect. Which turned Sulu gay.
@Edmond Schwab Takei himself opposed the decision to make Sulu gay. He understood that he was playing a character.
Awesome.
Saudações aqui é o Capt Bennett da nave estelar Osasco NX-15,os vídeos que você mostram no UA-cam são muito bons, TODOS A BORDO Capt Bennett desligando
Wait wasnt there a Yorktown class in startrek legacy?
Yeah the nacelles were a bit further forward but it was broadly similar. Guess copyright doesn’t let them lift it directly.
I called the nx enterprise the one with the hood scoop. Lol
One of the major problem with sci-fi is numbers, logically speaking Earth should have dozens of orbital shipyards, with each having multiple dry docks. Starfleet would have thousands of ships, not a handful.
40 - 50 is not going to be enough to provide adequate protection to the spacelines, that are need for trade.
You've got to account for the fact that this is roughly 100 years after WW3 which would decimate the planet and (probably) render large sections radioactive. They probably spent most of that time cleaning that up rather than building shipyards to build exploration and defence craft. So it's not beyond reason that their production capacity would be small at that time.
During TOS/TNG era though there should have been hundreds of thousands of ships around (Rather than the whole "Enterprise is the only vessel in range" silliness) but low numbers can be excused in the Enterprise era
TheDjbz that excuse doesn't really hold up, during that time they have built off world colonies, commited a great deal of resources in scientific endeavors. When there is a few billion people on the planet, one small shipyard is not going to cut it, for the demand.
So were the Intrepids the mainstay of the fleet and the superseded by the Daedalus?
Will you ever cover the Star Trek Legacy Models as they covered the Romulan war
The Franklin class was an Federation vessel not earth ship.
Is there a different Captain Foley, now? I'm confused.
Franklin Class is AWESOMENESS in flight! Tough as Klingon nails!
It sounds like there is a misunderstanding of canon here. Starfleet and humans obviously didn't have much out there. And what they did wasn't fast enough to really do anything to aid in the war. The reality is that the war was largely fought by the other members of the federation made stronger by working together which was facilitated by Humans.
Also the United Earth did already fight an interstellar war with warp1 ships, but in the opposite direction. It seems reasonable to assume that there was series of warp1 warships at the edges of human space... So they'd be strong but once wiped out they're gone
We follow canon properly. Keeping in mind of course that there is little to no canon about the extent of Starfleet assets during this time period (canon does not include books, audios, games, or fan theories, btw). And when you see our finished film, you will understand what role and to what extent the other members of the Coalition of Planets play in the conflict.
As for your notion about Earth having already fought "an interstellar war with warp 1 ships"... well, of course that is NOT canon, but stay tuned... we have some ideas about that that. To be continued...
So that means, Stuart is from the mirror universe with that goate?
22:54 the y2j class LOL
I do not like the Franklin design, it just doesn't look right to me. I did not like the Daedalus design til I saw M.C. Henry's redesign which I think now looks fantastic! I do like the NX-01. I do like the Warp Delta.
Did you base the Yorktown off of the ship in Star Trek Legacy, or was there another source.
The Franklin would be a mass produced medium class warship of the line along with the intrepid that would make up the backbone of starfleet like the steam runner or sabre class of the dominion war the Daedalus would be the Excelsior class of its time and Nx and Yorktown the galaxy and sovereigns
What about the Marshall class destroyer
Intro reaction : LOOL
Did you take anything from the Star Trek Legacy Yorktown class in your design? It was pretty much the step between NX and ToS Connie in that game.
Not specifically! :)
Damn I love that ship design. My favourite from legacy. The only problem with this fan film is that I won't see any of those ships in it. The discovery, posiedon, minuteman, strider all great ships.
@@jamiegray6931 Yes, the Poseidon class appears in "The Romulan War"
@@TheRomulanWar Now you have me excited. I can't wait to see that ship.
A general Daedalus comment: I never liked the idea of the Daedalus being both a pre-Enterprise ship (that served up to 2199) or it having such a TOS aesthetic. Part of the latter is both the Trek art department & later fans taking a very early, rough concept sketch by Matt Jefferies and running with it without refining it. It is doubly problematic when we accept the NX Enterprise-era is canon and that most depictions of the Daedalus (officially licensed or not) look really dated compared to every other Earth ship at the time.
I would make the Daedalus one of the late/post Romulan War warp 7 ships, and give it a heavily NX-era inspired design but with the same basic shape. It wasn't supposed to be seen flying with the Connie, and it is unrealistic to expect the TOS asthethic to last a century.
Post WW1 ships got gutted and had new engines , so why not use the same line of thinking in trek. After all some ww1 BB could only make 21 knots after upgrades they often made 28 knots. If you can see my reasoning weapons and other things can be massively improved if the need is strong enough
Please do the Newton or Geronimo classes.
În order to make it fit in Prime, straighten out the naceels. Gett less of the gritty relief texture.
Could you a video on the ship acradia from harlock space pirate
What about Star Trek Legacy? It's has a Yorktown class as well. I know this is fan but is this same class, but it's a subclass like B17-f and B-17-g?