Useful example of real world energy efficiency for a UK highway trip; thanks for sharing. Battery energy density has reached a stage of development where even a subcompact car can have enough battery capacity for an occasional out of town trip. ☮️
Yes I have a 2020 Zoe ZE50 and it's been used for lots of long journeys. For a smallish EV it has an excellent range. There seem to be lots of good deals for 3yr old Zoe's on the used car market that I think would make excellent buys. Battery degradation in Zoe's doesn't seem to be a problem. My Zoe is now over 72k miles and battery is fine.
We have the same model, built in 2020. Eco Mode is supposed to limit you to '60 mph' which is likely 100 kmh. But it is possible to exceed that under some circumstances. We drove back to Lincolnshire from beyond Swanage, carrying holiday luggage for two people, at the end of Summer; starting with a full battery. Used Cruise Control where safe to do so. Claimed range remaining upon arrival was 42 miles. Miles per kWh was 5.7. Drove at motorway speeds where possible and 60 mph on the A46. We only stopped once for about 30 minutes, at Hungerford, with no recharging. Temperatures were in the high 20's. For comparison, with completely different driving conditions: It's the end of October now, and in rain, wind and floods during the storm last week on an 80 mile round trip we saw 5.4 miles per kWh, but used only A and B roads, averaging 35 mph according to the car. Cruise Control was not used on those roads. So in colder weather, 14°C with little luggage during the storm, economy was worse than late Summer at high speeds with luggage. The Zoe is very efficient if you accelerate gradually and keep the speed constant with Cruise Control. I see better economy consistently when using Cruise Control than when attempting to keep speeds constant without using it. That gentle acceleration is not stupidly gentle, and consideration is given to other drivers. No doubt hypermiling would be even more economical, but life's too short to do that on every drive. Cold battery definitely knocks down the battery economy, even in Summer. Short journeys are affected most by that. A preheated, freshly recharged battery has yielded more than 6 miles per kWh on a number of occasions.
Just done a journey of roughly 155 miles from Stoke to Amesbury (near Salisbury) and back. Out on Friday and return Sunday. On the way there, with the AC set at 20.5 and a steady 75 showing on the speedo (75 is roughly 70 actual) I started out with 238 miles and arrived with 48 remaining. I decided to do the return journey (with 198 on the GOM and 60 set on the cruise control) until I reached the M5/M6 junction and then go the last 35 - 40 miles at 70 (I got bored). At the junction the GOM said I had 100 miles left. When I arrived home it said 68 miles.
I'm getting an average of 4.1 miles/kWh over the last 1000 miles, mainly rural A roads, average speed surprisingly low 32 mph, mainly Eco. Highest efficiency I've seen is 4.9 in Summer with tail wind. I've got the same model 2020 without BMS update.
Great result! Our ZE40 R90 has been relegated to ‘second car’ status now. It’s too traumatic looking for AC chargers these days. It has been and still is a fantastic servant. It had its 36k service after just 20 months and though post covid it doesn’t do the miles anymore it’s still at about 81k I think and has been 100% reliable
@@GoGreenAutos You can use the filters on Zap Map to ONLY SHOW 22kW AC chargers and there are a lot more than most people realise. Although I agree it would be better if there were even more.
I have the same car. If it hasn't had the ACTIS BMS update the you'll find that 4.8 mpkwh is the upper limit it will ever show. One way you can tell if it has had the update is see if you can see the consumption history on the large R-link display.
That's good to know. Renault seems to have never learned as the Zoe all the way back to 2013 needs regular BMS updates and it gets increasingly difficult to get some Renault dealers to do these.
Interesting information. My ‘rule of thumb’ is that a couple of facts are true, from users and others: even a great EV like a Tesla Model 3, can end up using 40% of its battery capacity in bad winter temperatures, to heat the vehicle cabin, a very important job, perhaps we’d say of primary importance; ICE systems, have to run at thousands of rpm just to get a usable power output, and this still is almost no use without a varying gear ratio and a clutch action being involved, ie inefficient extras; yet, EVs suffer from not having gears that vary because they generate max torque at zero rpm, usually, and thus at motorway speeds with a single-speed gearbox, the heavy rotor can be made to spin at thousands of rpm, when strictly it does not needs to. This latter point, Tesla have a beautiful ‘cheat’ or ‘hack’ for on their AWD, they simply gear the rear motor more than the front wheel one. This, in effect, they have two main ratios, low and high. Tesla just puts more energy into the one most appropriate, ie at low speeds the rear, at higher speeds the front. But fundamentally, we’d like not to turn the electric motor at up to ten thousand rpm, because we are creating work for the electronic feed of electric waveforms to the motor ie the spinning magnetic field is having to happen an awful lot more times per second than it really needs to. However, looking at the tremendous lack of robustness of ICE automatic gearboxes as they approach 100k miles (or at least, it’s tremendously variable depending on use and maintenance), I still view EV automatics as quite smart, side-stepping the need as they do for a clutch (using the spinning magnetic field to act almost like a torque convertor does, ie the motor end can spin a lot while the wheel-attached end tries to catch up). I don’t know too much more than that. The whole ‘rotating magnetic field’ thing, is in effect a clutch action that takes place inside the electric motor of the types EVs use, and is such a great fit for the job it would be a shame to encumber an EV with a gearing system unless this could not be avoided. The Formula-e cars that deployed a multi-gear drive, did not seem to reap any real efficiency benefits, for example, though it’s not the closest comparison to real driving. Nonetheless, the fact remains if there were a way to not have to spin the rotor quite so fast at m-way speeds, EVs would be slightly more efficient. However, it might make more difference on average, to simply wrap the entire car in a solar-panel film, so energy regen was maxed for free and see how that went in practice. No or little benefit at night of course. However, all EVs are in the same boat except those AWD Teslas. Take care ll, good vid.
Late quibble.. i think you have the maths wrong at 1:10. Coasting is always a more efficient use of residual kinetic energy than regeneration .. you never consume less energy over a distance d in a time t by stopping and starting than by covering it at a constant velocity. The reduced efficiency on a motorway is entirely due to drag varying as the square of velocity. The *relative* stop-start efficiency of EV compared to ICE is of course much higher, so the *relative" reduction at high speeds is greater.
Yes, you're completely correct. But I was talking more about regen is used more when rural & town driving just because you have to slow down more due to corners, junctions, roundabouts, traffic etc. My videos are not scripted, so not perfect.
@@GoGreenAutos '.. not scripted..' .. that's why I like them! I wish I could have bought my Zoe from you guys..where I got so much of my info.. but the ONTO crash made more local very low mileage used prices irresistible, and I felt I had to move fast.
I am impressed that you get 4.8 on a motorway in August, I got roughly the same (in a ZE50 GT line), but I wanted to ask did you use , "B" brake to maximise the regen on the motorways, some people do, some don't ... according to the Facebook page
Generally at motorway speeds I wouldn't use B mode. Its pretty relevant anyway as you do little slowing down on motorways. I certainly do not use the brakes, so drop it into B mode if more regen is required to slow down.
In order to answer the question posed, it would have been much more useful to show the actual consumption on the dash whilst driving at 70mph. Doing a journey that involves motorways, dual carriageways and stopping in Staines is not the same. Its general driving in a general scenario to answer a general question.
The Zoe is a smaller car, so yes it will be smaller, but not by too much. You can look up the sizes in the manufacturer's brochures here www.gogreenautos.co.uk/manufacturer-brochures
This was filmed on the 4th August 2023 and it looks pretty overcast. I said on the video that I didn't have the air conditioning on as it wasn't needed, so I guess it was around 16-18 degC. Searching on the web, shows it was around 16 degC that day.
Max charge speed 46kW which was OK back in 2019 when ZE50's first sold and many public chargers were only 50kW. But looking a little slow now. I can usually charge my ZE50 from 20-80% in about 45 minutes
Max charge speed is 46kWh but that starts to fall past 30% charged. I recently charged my 7000mile 2021 52kWh Zoe from about half charged to 75% and the 12.5kWh took 24.16mins so an average of 31kW from a BP Pulse "50kw" charger.
Hi. Yes DC charging is max 50kW. But bear in mind that it can be spec'd with 22kW AC capability, which we personally find extremely useful. Most cars are 7kW on AC, which is fine at home, but can limit your options when out and about. As for whether 50kW is fast enough, well for us it's fine.
I addressed that in the video. The Zoe van is better than most other vans which have only driver airbags. However, with the Zoe car, there's more to it than the Euro N-Cap score implies.
Still, its worth reminding your YT viewers how bad this car is for occupant safety. Van Ratingen from Euro NCAP said “not only do these cars fail to offer any appreciable active safety as standard, but their occupant protection is also worse than any vehicle we have seen in many years.” “It is cynical to offer the consumer an affordable green car if it comes at the price of higher injury risk in the event of an accident. Other cars, such as the FIAT 500e, recently awarded 5 stars in Green NCAP, show that safety does not need to be sacrificed for environmental cleanliness.”
The seat-mounted side airbag which previously protected head and thorax has been replaced by a less effective thorax-only airbag, The NCAP report said it represented “a degradation in occupant protection. The new ZOE offers poor protection in crashes overall, poor vulnerable road user protection and lacks meaningful crash avoidance technology, disqualifying it for any stars.” 😮
Very useful demonstration! I was wondering if you have any information/numbers/experience to share on the subject of electric cars catching fire issue/news.
As for media reporting EVs catching fire....most of the time its not EVs and they are reporting speculation which is not fact. The fact is that EVs are about 20 times less likely to catch on fire than ICE vehicles.
Regen does not make an electric car more efficient around town! It makes it less inefficient, a very similar but actually fundamentally different concept, and the core of why hybrid cars work best in towns.
Lots more stopping in town driving. If you turn off regen and use the brakes to slow down, its less efficient. If you don't keep up with the traffic and leave huge gaps and coast, then yes, not using regen or braking is more efficient, but not a reality for most in busy urban driving.
Energy recovery does exactly what it says on the tin. Even coasting is effectively wasting energy. Energy should be recovered at every possible moment. Why throw it away.? Full electric vehicles have great potential in this respect. The way to go dudes. 😂 Go green is right. Town driving is way more effecient.
Useful example of real world energy efficiency for a UK highway trip; thanks for sharing.
Battery energy density has reached a stage of development where even a subcompact car can have enough battery capacity for an occasional out of town trip. ☮️
Yes I have a 2020 Zoe ZE50 and it's been used for lots of long journeys. For a smallish EV it has an excellent range. There seem to be lots of good deals for 3yr old Zoe's on the used car market that I think would make excellent buys. Battery degradation in Zoe's doesn't seem to be a problem. My Zoe is now over 72k miles and battery is fine.
@@malcolmfowler8972Would rather have an Ioniq. Way better cooling and BMS
We have the same model, built in 2020. Eco Mode is supposed to limit you to '60 mph' which is likely 100 kmh. But it is possible to exceed that under some circumstances.
We drove back to Lincolnshire from beyond Swanage, carrying holiday luggage for two people, at the end of Summer; starting with a full battery. Used Cruise Control where safe to do so. Claimed range remaining upon arrival was 42 miles. Miles per kWh was 5.7. Drove at motorway speeds where possible and 60 mph on the A46. We only stopped once for about 30 minutes, at Hungerford, with no recharging. Temperatures were in the high 20's.
For comparison, with completely different driving conditions: It's the end of October now, and in rain, wind and floods during the storm last week on an 80 mile round trip we saw 5.4 miles per kWh, but used only A and B roads, averaging 35 mph according to the car. Cruise Control was not used on those roads. So in colder weather, 14°C with little luggage during the storm, economy was worse than late Summer at high speeds with luggage.
The Zoe is very efficient if you accelerate gradually and keep the speed constant with Cruise Control. I see better economy consistently when using Cruise Control than when attempting to keep speeds constant without using it. That gentle acceleration is not stupidly gentle, and consideration is given to other drivers. No doubt hypermiling would be even more economical, but life's too short to do that on every drive.
Cold battery definitely knocks down the battery economy, even in Summer. Short journeys are affected most by that. A preheated, freshly recharged battery has yielded more than 6 miles per kWh on a number of occasions.
The Renault Zoe still sells well here in central Scotland and a couple of neighbours have recently bought one. Enjoyed the video and the music!
Thanks. My video editing is getting a little bit better, so now adding music and cut-aways where I can.
Just done a journey of roughly 155 miles from Stoke to Amesbury (near Salisbury) and back. Out on Friday and return Sunday. On the way there, with the AC set at 20.5 and a steady 75 showing on the speedo (75 is roughly 70 actual) I started out with 238 miles and arrived with 48 remaining. I decided to do the return journey (with 198 on the GOM and 60 set on the cruise control) until I reached the M5/M6 junction and then go the last 35 - 40 miles at 70 (I got bored). At the junction the GOM said I had 100 miles left. When I arrived home it said 68 miles.
I'm getting an average of 4.1 miles/kWh over the last 1000 miles, mainly rural A roads, average speed surprisingly low 32 mph, mainly Eco.
Highest efficiency I've seen is 4.9 in Summer with tail wind.
I've got the same model 2020 without BMS update.
Great result! Our ZE40 R90 has been relegated to ‘second car’ status now. It’s too traumatic looking for AC chargers these days. It has been and still is a fantastic servant. It had its 36k service after just 20 months and though post covid it doesn’t do the miles anymore it’s still at about 81k I think and has been 100% reliable
Yes the lack of roadside AC charging has become a bit of a problem for some vehicles.
@@GoGreenAutos You can use the filters on Zap Map to ONLY SHOW 22kW AC chargers and there are a lot more than most people realise. Although I agree it would be better if there were even more.
Just chatting to a Renault dealer. They are off loading 600 Zoes to make way for the 5 Some very good prices for 1,2 year old cars.
Many thanks!
Zoe is very efficient till 90 or something. It's a great car.
I have the same car. If it hasn't had the ACTIS BMS update the you'll find that 4.8 mpkwh is the upper limit it will ever show. One way you can tell if it has had the update is see if you can see the consumption history on the large R-link display.
That's good to know. Renault seems to have never learned as the Zoe all the way back to 2013 needs regular BMS updates and it gets increasingly difficult to get some Renault dealers to do these.
Interesting information. My ‘rule of thumb’ is that a couple of facts are true, from users and others: even a great EV like a Tesla Model 3, can end up using 40% of its battery capacity in bad winter temperatures, to heat the vehicle cabin, a very important job, perhaps we’d say of primary importance; ICE systems, have to run at thousands of rpm just to get a usable power output, and this still is almost no use without a varying gear ratio and a clutch action being involved, ie inefficient extras; yet, EVs suffer from not having gears that vary because they generate max torque at zero rpm, usually, and thus at motorway speeds with a single-speed gearbox, the heavy rotor can be made to spin at thousands of rpm, when strictly it does not needs to. This latter point, Tesla have a beautiful ‘cheat’ or ‘hack’ for on their AWD, they simply gear the rear motor more than the front wheel one. This, in effect, they have two main ratios, low and high.
Tesla just puts more energy into the one most appropriate, ie at low speeds the rear, at higher speeds the front. But fundamentally, we’d like not to turn the electric motor at up to ten thousand rpm, because we are creating work for the electronic feed of electric waveforms to the motor ie the spinning magnetic field is having to happen an awful lot more times per second than it really needs to. However, looking at the tremendous lack of robustness of ICE automatic gearboxes as they approach 100k miles (or at least, it’s tremendously variable depending on use and maintenance), I still view EV automatics as quite smart, side-stepping the need as they do for a clutch (using the spinning magnetic field to act almost like a torque convertor does, ie the motor end can spin a lot while the wheel-attached end tries to catch up).
I don’t know too much more than that. The whole ‘rotating magnetic field’ thing, is in effect a clutch action that takes place inside the electric motor of the types EVs use, and is such a great fit for the job it would be a shame to encumber an EV with a gearing system unless this could not be avoided. The Formula-e cars that deployed a multi-gear drive, did not seem to reap any real efficiency benefits, for example, though it’s not the closest comparison to real driving. Nonetheless, the fact remains if there were a way to not have to spin the rotor quite so fast at m-way speeds, EVs would be slightly more efficient. However, it might make more difference on average, to simply wrap the entire car in a solar-panel film, so energy regen was maxed for free and see how that went in practice. No or little benefit at night of course.
However, all EVs are in the same boat except those AWD Teslas. Take care ll, good vid.
Late quibble.. i think you have the maths wrong at 1:10. Coasting is always a more efficient use of residual kinetic energy than regeneration .. you never consume less energy over a distance d in a time t by stopping and starting than by covering it at a constant velocity. The reduced efficiency on a motorway is entirely due to drag varying as the square of velocity. The *relative* stop-start efficiency of EV compared to ICE is of course much higher, so the *relative" reduction at high speeds is greater.
Yes, you're completely correct. But I was talking more about regen is used more when rural & town driving just because you have to slow down more due to corners, junctions, roundabouts, traffic etc.
My videos are not scripted, so not perfect.
@@GoGreenAutos '.. not scripted..' .. that's why I like them! I wish I could have bought my Zoe from you guys..where I got so much of my info.. but the ONTO crash made more local very low mileage used prices irresistible, and I felt I had to move fast.
I am impressed that you get 4.8 on a motorway in August, I got roughly the same (in a ZE50 GT line), but I wanted to ask did you use , "B" brake to maximise the regen on the motorways, some people do, some don't ... according to the Facebook page
Generally at motorway speeds I wouldn't use B mode. Its pretty relevant anyway as you do little slowing down on motorways. I certainly do not use the brakes, so drop it into B mode if more regen is required to slow down.
I have a ZOE 52, and it doesn't go faster than 100km/h (62mph) in Eco mode.
46kW. If you want to see this Zoe DC charging, see ua-cam.com/video/JpfLJndEF98/v-deo.html
@@GoGreenAutosI don't mean charging speed. My car won't go faster than about 62mph in Eco mode.
In order to answer the question posed, it would have been much more useful to show the actual consumption on the dash whilst driving at 70mph. Doing a journey that involves motorways, dual carriageways and stopping in Staines is not the same. Its general driving in a general scenario to answer a general question.
What is the warning light (yellow spanner )on your dash indicating?
Service due.
Looking at a Zoe from my leaf. Is there much difference is space inside and boot ? As I deliver for Amazon food I need similar space. Best wishes
The Zoe is a smaller car, so yes it will be smaller, but not by too much. You can look up the sizes in the manufacturer's brochures here www.gogreenautos.co.uk/manufacturer-brochures
You would probably halve that in the winter, with heating on etc.
Hi, what temperature was it that day?
This was filmed on the 4th August 2023 and it looks pretty overcast. I said on the video that I didn't have the air conditioning on as it wasn't needed, so I guess it was around 16-18 degC. Searching on the web, shows it was around 16 degC that day.
What’s the max charging power on these 54kWh Zoe?
Max charge speed 46kW which was OK back in 2019 when ZE50's first sold and many public chargers were only 50kW. But looking a little slow now. I can usually charge my ZE50 from 20-80% in about 45 minutes
@@malcolmfowler8972 cheers for replying. Good to know. A friend is interested in getting one, hence my question. Yeah, 50kW is fine.
Max charge speed is 46kWh but that starts to fall past 30% charged. I recently charged my 7000mile 2021 52kWh Zoe from about half charged to 75% and the 12.5kWh took 24.16mins so an average of 31kW from a BP Pulse "50kw" charger.
Hi. Yes DC charging is max 50kW. But bear in mind that it can be spec'd with 22kW AC capability, which we personally find extremely useful. Most cars are 7kW on AC, which is fine at home, but can limit your options when out and about.
As for whether 50kW is fast enough, well for us it's fine.
Renault Zoe: 5 stars for efficiency, 0 stars for safety 😢
I addressed that in the video. The Zoe van is better than most other vans which have only driver airbags. However, with the Zoe car, there's more to it than the Euro N-Cap score implies.
Still, its worth reminding your YT viewers how bad this car is for occupant safety. Van Ratingen from Euro NCAP said “not only do these cars fail to offer any appreciable active safety as standard, but their occupant protection is also worse than any vehicle we have seen in many years.”
“It is cynical to offer the consumer an affordable green car if it comes at the price of higher injury risk in the event of an accident. Other cars, such as the FIAT 500e, recently awarded 5 stars in Green NCAP, show that safety does not need to be sacrificed for environmental cleanliness.”
The seat-mounted side airbag which previously protected head and thorax has been replaced by a less effective thorax-only airbag, The NCAP report said it represented “a degradation in occupant protection. The new ZOE offers poor protection in crashes overall, poor vulnerable road user protection and lacks meaningful crash avoidance technology, disqualifying it for any stars.” 😮
Very useful demonstration!
I was wondering if you have any information/numbers/experience to share on the subject of electric cars catching fire issue/news.
As for media reporting EVs catching fire....most of the time its not EVs and they are reporting speculation which is not fact. The fact is that EVs are about 20 times less likely to catch on fire than ICE vehicles.
Regen does not make an electric car more efficient around town! It makes it less inefficient, a very similar but actually fundamentally different concept, and the core of why hybrid cars work best in towns.
There is is no difference! Just a case of semantics. Why is a hybrid better around town? Doesn’t it run off its battery?
Lots more stopping in town driving. If you turn off regen and use the brakes to slow down, its less efficient. If you don't keep up with the traffic and leave huge gaps and coast, then yes, not using regen or braking is more efficient, but not a reality for most in busy urban driving.
How do 'hybrid cars work best in towns'? 🙄
You clearly know nothing about electric cars 😂
Energy recovery does exactly what it says on the tin. Even coasting is effectively wasting energy. Energy should be recovered at every possible moment. Why throw it away.? Full electric vehicles have great potential in this respect. The way to go dudes. 😂
Go green is right. Town driving is way more effecient.
DeSantis are producing great cars.
Renault is not Stellantis.
Electric cars are not really at thier best on a Mw.. around town with stop and start and good regen and they EXCEL.