The 4 Ways Complementarian Marriages Can Go Wrong (Keith Takes on the Danvers Statement) - Ep 198
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
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Our Great Sex Rescue Tool kit--help for you as you talk about healthy teachings to your friends and church baremarriage.c...
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Emerson Eggerichs warns against wives following into sin (watch the first few video clips and see his emotional response)
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Our podcasts with Philip Payne: Part 1 and Part 2
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Why having the husband make the final decision can be a harmful shortcut
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As a woman who has come out of a long abusive marriage, these conversations with Sheila and Keith are so healing and liberating for me. They are such a picture to me of what a healthy marriage should look like and it brings tears to my eyes. My previous spouse used complimentarism to justify his abuse for many years. It caused many deep scars inside of me that I’m still healing from today. I agree that most men who believe in complimentarism wouldn’t be abusive, but at the very least, women are still pulled down and not encouraged to develop into everything God has made them to be because of the limitations on women. I was taught growing up that women are easily deceived and that’s why God asks us to submit. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me and men were better than me. I didn’t want to be a hateful person, so I could never admit to myself, how that teaching affected me. So thankful for this podcast and I’m teaching my 5 sons, many things I’m learning!
I really appreciate Keith~ his heart, his insight, his words and support of these new messages we are trying to get into the modern church!
My hubby and I are equals/a team and it works so well, it's like breathing! ❤
Thank you for this episode. I used to hold religiously to complementarian roles, but just today I told my husband I think I"m a conservative egalitarian. He said "sounds good to me!" I'm super blessed!
"What a bunch of snowflakes!" Perfectly put. Reminds me a lot of your critique of "every man's burden" - it drives me nuts when men (and women) are portrayed on the same level as animals, or even worse fleshy automata. We are made in the image of God, it is time we act like it and act like those around us are made in His image too.
Amen!
Great point
Meanwhile, these same people who are staunch complementarians also expect gay people to either experience fundamental changes to their sexualities or live a life of celibacy, while heterosexual men are just "born that way" when it comes to irrepressible sex drives.
Because apparently, sexual continence isn't an important discipline for *everyone* to develop.
There is a saying: “power corrupts; absolute power corrupt absolutely.”
At 11:39 Keith talks about abusers, and Sheila quotes Emerson Eggerichs, who said something like "if the man is evil-willed, the man is going to abuse anyway" regardless of what they believe. But Eggerichs is wrong: When I did a survey of people in my private online group for Christians going through separation or divorce, I often heard that the husband wasn't terribly abusive UNTIL AFTER he read Eggerichs's book, LOVE & RESPECT. It was *that book* that fanned the embers of low-grade selfishness and turned it into a conflagration of full-blown abusiveness, entitlement, and domination.
Absolutely!
😢
Yes people are taught who is entitled and who is supposed to serve regardless of treatment. In the power of praying wife book episode one said about being in a small group of young seminary wives and that all of them had issues with destructive behaviours from their pastor husbands. That was horrifying. That in a small group, and of the supposedly more holy seminary students, the statistic of all of them - I know it is not a balanced survey, but as a snapshot...
@@helenr4300 That speaks volumes. Women's experiences need to be shared. Sadly, the church is too often a toxic space for women. Anywhere hierarchy is wielded, there is oppression of someone. Whatever happened to Paul's perspective: in Christ there is neither male nor female....? Paul would be horrified to see what the church has done with his words.
. the evil man did it because patriarchy has that great big open hole allowing hundreds of rules made that control and subjugate
There is so much of this philosophy that is obviously destructive to women… but there is a ton that is (not so obviously) destructive towards men. As a good man, that was raised with these beliefs, this journey has been very liberating for me… and our marriage has improved drastically. :)
Thank you for saying so. Only recently, after listening to the Let Men Be Men episode, did I realize how complentarianism infantilizes men and leaves women no topl except manipulation to get what she needs/wants.
You are brilliant. Such intelligent, compassionate biblical and well thought through points . Thank you . There is hope for the coming generations. A true and biblical view on marriage sexuality and Gods heart that finally rings true !!! I’m loving listening to all your podcasts so far . Only discovered you in the last month Will be sharing with others my daughters and friends here in Uk . 😇♥️🥰
18:39 - they also teach that women are inherently covetous of their husbands & his authority, & also that women are inherently more easily deceived.
23:00 - Sure, because if you're the authority, and just so super duper important to Kingdom leadership, you totally can delegate literally anything and everything you find boring or unpalatable.
This podcast is so good. I totally agree. ☺
Thank you for a great analysis. Here is some information for those who think you are biased: the concepts of biblical manhood and biblical womanhood do not exist in the Bible. You can't make a case for strict definitions of either of those by merely reading and studying scripture. Piper and Grudem had to pick out specific verses, wrest them from their literary and cultural contexts, pretend that they all point in one direction, and then ignore many of the words and most of the actions of both Paul and Jesus in order to define what they mean by biblical womanhood and manhood. The word "complementarian" was created in 1988, which means that we went nearly 2000 years without it. Certainly throughout history men and women have had certain functions, owing mainly to the fact that females are the ones encumbered by pregnancy, childbirth and the majority of child rearing. However, in western civilization there is plenty of evidence that women and men have historically supported families by working side by side, or both making money independently and participating in raising children. And there is plenty of evidence that women kept many Christian churches going when men were uninterested. And then there is the absurdity of the sweeping generalization that all men are qualified to be leaders and no women are qualified to be leaders because of their body parts. If for no other reason, that should be sufficient for any thinking person to see the deep flaws in their thinking. And finally this. The outcomes of egalitarian marriages is not relevant to this discussion. If a woman in an egalitarian marriage is unhappy, she can seek counseling, she can separate for a season, or she can divorce. Women in complementarian marriages don't have that option. They must continue suffering abuse with silence, enduring whatever their husbands dish out. And that is the primary evil of what Piper and Grudem have wrought: convincing women that they will fall out of favor with God if they dare protest, leave, or seek counseling. Think about it. Does our loving heavenly father expect his daughters to be endlessly tormented by abusive men without recourse? Creatures who are as much made in his divine image as men are? The answer is a resounding "no". My opinion is that Piper, Grudem and their ilk are fearful men who are extremely threatened by competent women. People with power virtually never voluntarily give up or share power. So instead of encouraging women to be and do all that their creator made them capable of, they neutralize the threat by concocting what they claim is a Bible-based scheme to dehumanize women and thus remove the threat to their power.
Mic drop!!!
About JP....
1. If a husband is asking his wife to participate in group sex, then I hardly believe that is the only problem with his "leadership."
2. He says that I woman can refuse to participate in the group sex because it is abusive behavior, but he also says (in the same video I think) that a woman should endure abuse for a night during certain seasons. So, she can refuse to participate in abusive behavior when asked, but when he forces it it's ok...??? So dumb.
3. Now we all know what JP fantasizes about.
#3 - ewww!
I don't listen to John Piper but when I heard this clip I was shocked. If the husband is asking his wife to participate in group sex you can be sure that their issues are very deep. It is troubling that he advices her to be so soft on her husband's perversion. What I find troubling about his example is that he uses an extreme example that he knows everyone would strongly object to so that when she only has to endure a slap for one night...well.....what a relief!!!!! at least it isn't group sex...right!!!? He seriously has issues and it is ironic that he advices the husband to seek counselling but doesn't suggest he move out for a time while he sorts out his temper. Zero respect here for John Piper. The sad thing is I lean more in the complementation camp but these types of pastors are not giving these women sound counsel. If anything they are aiding in an escalation of abuse.
I appreciate your videos. I just wanted to let you know that Dean Lentini and The Remnant Radio are two youtube channels that do call these things out. Especially Dean Lentini. He's called out John Macarthur, Doug Wilson, and most of these topics you bring up numerous times. He's even said he doesn't like the lavel of conplimentarian because of a lot of these issues even though he homds the theology.
I absolutely appreciate Dean and his willingness to call out the leaders you mentioned. I'm a subscriber to his channel for that very reason, and have found him to be welcoming of egalitarians like me. I'm praying he will revisit the scriptures that inform his theology of gender hierarchy, and will be open to the robust scholarship that's been done to support an egalitarian point-of-view. I suspect it's even more difficult for soft comps, who wouldn't dream of abusing women, to see the problems inherent in complementarianism.
I follow him as well and highly recommended his channel
Orthodox Christianity already has the balance correct
Can someone help me understand how group sex is the sin that cannot happen but physical assault of one’s wife is a sin that’s cool for a season?! Why don’t any of these authors view abuse as a sin? Why is the line for sin somewhere beyond abuse?
If a husband is abusive he does not love you!!!
Because a wife and women in general are seen as inferior and the "property" of the man. Remember women don't value or need "respect" as much as men do.
When a pastor at my church mentioned John Piper in a sermon I wrote him and sent him this clip you played before I even listened to your podcast . He replied mentioning something else I had mentioned in my message to him but said NOTHING about John Piper. I also sent this clip to a woman in charge of ladies Bible study when she put a John Piper quote in a church created women’s study. She never replied back. For many reasons I no longer go to that church…
Wonderful video. Thank you.
Only a weak man could be afraid of an egalitarian relationship.
Only a weak woman could be afraid of submission.
See? It goes both ways…
27:00 YESSS THIS! I have always called this "white hat syndrome." It happens all the time in TV and movies: if you label this character a "good guy" and that character a "bad guy," then it doesn't matter what the good guy actually did, or whether he actually behaves virtuously: he is the designated good guy. He is wearing the white hat, so we have to cheer for him! I quit watching the TV show 24 when it became clear that the main character was going to continue doing appalling things (like, beheading people!) and the writers were not going to acknowledge "Well, he just became a Bad Guy."
Giving someone a white hat doesn't make them a good guy. Calling someone a leader does not magically make it so!
Great challenge to the complementarians: Police your own!
You know what would be quite interesting, and "telling"? WHAT IF, these teachers/preachers that teach/preach "It is good and submissive to God, for a woman to submit to and allow her husband to abuse and harm her, and that they'll be rewarded, by God in heaven, for their doing so!". WOULD PUT TOGETHER A BOOK, "an UPDATED VERSION", of the old Foxe's Book of Martyrs -- BUT using the stories/examples of women ("cheerfully & willingly") submitting to abuse. . . & SEE IF IT goes over with great acclaim & encouragement & furthering the gospel! I hardly think it would!
Gosh that clip by John Piper was disgusting!
He sounded exactly like my dad: vocal tone, mannerisms, everything :( very disturbing
Creepy
Excellent content, as usual
I was recently introduced to your podcast and really appreciate the balanced and biblical perspective you bring to issues that affect men and women. I appreciate how you call out some of the ridiculous, abusive and evil thought patterns that exist in modern evangelicalism. This particular podcast made me wonder what your perspective is on monogamous same sex relationships among Christians, as one of the big arguments against it is typically complementarianism. If you don’t feel comfortable to speak on it, that is ok. I personally am a gay Christian, former missionary with a very conservative group that bought into many of the mindsets you’ve spoken out against, so I was just curious if you’ve researched this topic at all. I highly recommend Kathy Baldock and James Brownson as authors on this topic and would really enjoy hearing your thoughts.
Keith bringing some Rebecca level sass 😅
Now we know where she got it.
_Submission_ vs. _Servility:_ A Distinction Without a Difference
Also, if a man comes home and wants something for dinner other than what the wife prepared (even if what she prepared was what he asked for), she's supposed to oblige him?! How is that not a terrible influence on children? That husband is an overgrown child, and he's modeling picky eating to the real children.
And I bet she is then berated for going over the grocery budget, too.
Women have been long blamed for the shortcomings of man---
So which of her shortcomings is the man responsible for?
Complementarianism. An eight syllable word that means men are in charge. EIGHT syllables. Kind of says it all about that point of view.
I don't get it. Egalitarianism has eight syllables too.
@@calculigirl03 Good point! Strong word for a strong equal relationship.
Yikes, if you can’t see the difference between Complementarianism and Biblical Patriarchy, there’s not much else to say.
Do you deny the government’s authority too? What about the Apostles’ authority?
Not to quibble, but I’m pretty sure both words have seven syllables;)
What is the opinion on marriages where men lead and love their wives well, and wives love and admire their selfsacrificing husbands?
I think it’s great when it happens. Mutual love and respect for each other go a long way. I haven’t met many of that ideal type of couple-but I married & divorced Mr. Abusive Guy. Not much experience with a good relationship here!
But what does "men lead" mean? That the husband makes all the decisions? That he believes, like the complementarians that women are easily deceived and hence, not fit to lead at all? What if, after they've been married for a time the wife realizes that she is actually the better partner to lead in some areas of the marriage? Is that even going to be up for discussion, or will it be an automatic "no" from the husband? If both partners are in it willingly, rather than by emotional and spiritual manipulation, then maybe they can be happy. But you never know what's going to happen in life, so it's good for both spouses to know how to fill both roles - provider and caretaker. As a former banker, I can tell you that there is nothing more pitiful than a woman who has been dependent on her husband all her life, and when he dies unexpectedly, she is paralyzed because she's never been allowed to make decisions and think for herself and has no idea where to turn or how to cope.
I liked the analogy in the video about being a doctor. That a medication is not proven to be helpful, but for a group of people it is poison then it wouldn't be prescribed.
I suspect that a couple who work with loving care from the 'leader' that cares for the wellbeing of their partner, and the partner open to serve their beloved, would do fine in any model of marriage. Because their love is more important than rules. But when teaching leads to domination and servility; when people are taught to suffer and that leaving a abusive relationship is not allowed; when teachers proclaim that staying in the suffering pleases God.... Then the whole medication should be avoided
@@juliachildress2943as someone who is involved with people on bereavement I also recognise this. Not particularly in male headship contexts but in generally gender specific roles. Those in their 80s now often had a more gendered partnership. On bereavement she has never dealt with the bills (and not having 2 names on the accounts can complicate transition), whereas he may only be able to boil an egg. Lots of course are less pronounced but still have a element of adapting.
@@juliachildress2943that is a gross misunderstanding of complementary roles…
40:49 Anyone who has to ‘suppress’ how they really feel about their spouse (or anyone) over and over a will become sick- one way or the other according to Dr. Gabor Matte
And it's mainly women who do as he says.
12:06 the ideas in that quote, that bad people will do bad regardless of teaching so not their responsibility as preachers. Bill Gothard is using exactly that defence when IBLP is criticised for the culture of breaking children's will etc in light of Duggar documentary.
15:40 yes these teachings are gasoline to a fire.
Bringing boys up to think even a glimpse of a female shoulder will provoke lust in them, bringing them up to think physical punishment from the leader to the led is the way to rule, parents to children, and then being surprised it carries over into marriages...
With entitlement being trained into the boys the girls are taught only to serve, that they should be sweet and supportive, to not respect their own needs and rights. Preparing them to submit and not even talk bad of the husband.
Can there be good complementarian marriages? I'm sure there are, some people can overcome bad teaching. And others can lead with grace and wanting the other to be lifted up and cared for.
But it gives permission and even encourages those who seek to dominate, or even the lack of emotional intelligence to recognise that my entitlement to my choice in all things means denying the other their choice.
This episode was awesome! I just want to make a comment. I think it is interesting how complementarianism highly regards the “Imago Dei” and “singleness”. Each of which value both male and female as individuals before God, but somehow, as soon as there is a marriage, the entire paradigm changes..🤷♀️
14:34 interesting point can being hurt by Patriarchy create bias in criticism toward it? Another good question is can benefiting from patriarchy and patriarchy providing you with your the basis for your masculinity ( they consider to be Thier identity) cause you to have a bias towards it? Yesss
The pat/comp church says just becz an abusive man misuses patriarchy and treats his wife wrong does not mean that patriarchy is wrong just becz someone does it wrong
But ...look at it this way. the evil man did it because patriarchy has that great big open hole allowing hundreds of rules made how to apply it--all aimed at women
but if mutuality is the underlying operating force in the church the abusive man is instantly outted becz his behavior will not have patriarachal rules and intrepretations to hide behind or justify his behavior and dictate what the “proper” responses of the abused women should be.
This aspect of Christian marriage is not taught in UK, maybe in a couple of cases. It's something sown by American churches and the Muslim religion 🙁
This discussion on complimentarian teachings in the Christian church has given me information on what some authors are teaching in their books and/or from the pulpit. I would say I’m a complimentarian, but I do not agree with the teachings from J. Piper or the others mentioned in this episode. I don’t listen to JP sermons/ teachings or read his books. But now I know I would not recommend any of his marriage teachings and would warn others to avoid it. The short clips I have heard from JP did not interest me, I don’t get why he is popular, I just chalk it up to everyone has different preferences on speaking styles.
There are styles of speaking, but that is different to the content of the teaching.
Is there a difference between leadership and hierarchy?
Most definitely! Someone can lead while still being an equal--for instance, taking initiative on something. Hierarchy means that you have authority, and so others must do what you say, or you get to make the final decisions. Leadership without hierarchy simply means taking initiative and getting things done. That's good, and everyone should want people to take initiative!
The question is: Does the person have to follow? As soon as you compel someone to follow because of authority, then that's something else altogether. And that's where bad things can happen.
Hierarchy is absolute person A has authority over person B. Leadership can be task specific, person A can lead in one area of life, whilst person B may take the lead in a different matter
A secular video actually helped me to see that good men are wired to take action to serve the ones they love. That's leadership where the husband loves and serves the wife (who receives and supports) as Christ loves the church. But there is nothing in the Bible that says that the husband makes all the decisions or has the final say. That would be hierarchy, and there is no Biblical basis for it.
17:57
John Piper is out of his tiny mind!!!
I got involved in Evangelical Christianity in my teens from a non observant Jewish background. I have Asperger’s syndrome which I need to take psych meds for and it makes me unable to work so I draw SSDI and I experienced a lot of judgment in different churches that I attended especially as I came of age in the late 90s and the early 2000s as a younger Gen Xer amidst the emerging purity culture and complimentarian nonsense. Eventually I dropped out of church and Christianity completely about 15 years ago after experiencing so much rejection and judgment for my condition and for being unable to work and for needing psych meds and for needing to be on SSDI. There is no place for ppl like me in Christianity. Plus after reading the NT. and studying church history and different types of Christian theology and getting to know my Hebrew bible and learning ancient Hebrew and getting to know my Judaism I realized that Jesus might not really be Mashiach and that the NT. misquotes the Hebrew bible often and it quotes the Greek LXX translation and not the original Hebrew. Not long before dropping out I got into my first romantic relationship with a young virgin woman who was raised OPC and graduated with her BA in biblical studies from a PCA college and she gave me that nonsense book on rediscovering biblical manhood and womanhood and then she rejected me because she couldn’t change me into a traditional male provider and she then ended up killing herself after our break up because of her guilt about us having sex. I’m now in a relationship for the past 3 years with my girlfriend Maria who is also Jewish and neither of us are Christian even though we both believe in G-d and we both have great sex with contraception because we are both disabled and children would be too much for us. Our relationship is highly egalitarian and though I’ve become a bit more traditionally observant in a modern orthodox way she goes along with it even though she is less observant
Hmmmm
I’ve just been introduced to this channel… I’m not sure what I think yet.
Betcha can't listen to just one. I started with The Anti Obligation Sex episode and it was like the dam broke. I'm not sorry.😊
Has John Piper totally lost the plot?? What an eeejjuttt 😮😮
40:02 if you can only give feedback in such a confaluting way, rather than in plain speech then how do you expect people to get the message. Some people pick up on hints, lots of us aren't. Some honest plain speaking is needed to communicate clearly. The idea that the only options are servile hints or aggressively ursuping is ridiculous.
So when will you also talk about how egalitarian marriages can go wrong and dedicate a whole video to that as well? This seems very biased and one sided.
Actually, the research shows that egalitarian marriages do much, much better than those who act out complementarianism. Hierarchy in marriage results in bad things; Mutuality in marriage results in much better outcomes.
Actually, a video dedicated to honestly exploring and discussing the outcomes of egalitarianism in marriage sounds like a great idea! I'd love to hear Sheila and Keith discuss the fruit of egalitarianism in marriage!
@@blackhanddpants I would love to see that! There’s a whole series by Mike Winger where he talks about it from both sides and discusses the biblical arguments for both sides. I’d love to see a similar video with Sheila and Keith
The series is called “women in ministry”, so he covers more than just marriage, but there is one episode dedicated to egalitarian vs complementarian marriage.
@@blackhanddpants We're planning one for August/September, but also an op ed coming out this week!
Hi,
As a former egalitarian, I appreciated the parts where you grappled with the actual points of the other side.
Having said that, much of this video deals with the people who do not live consistently with the complementariansm they claim. You wouldn't see someone who professes egalitarianism yet lives contrary to it as a true reflection of egalitarianism.
You need to stop this double standard.
One good example is your equating of Sarah's calling her husband "lord" with Abraham selling her out to the king.
The former is praised in scripture, and the other is narratively criticized as cowardice (shown by the Pharaoh's dream).
I also couldn't help but notice that you viewed "patriarchy" in a sense that is secularly informed than Christian.
You mentioned that patriarchy is "rotten to the core and it has to come down." This is a Marxist sentiment rather than a biblical one. Motherhood is flawed. Fatherhood is flawed. Wifehood is flawed. Husbandhood is flawed. Yet God's goal is to redeem these, not tear them down.
God handpicked flawed patriarchs over and over and even identifies as the "God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob"-all three very very flawed people.
And that's the point. Jesus is the better test-passer than Abraham, the true sacrificial son that Isaac prefigured, and the better head of Israel than Jacob.
This God's solution for sin is not to do away with gender roles, but to redeem them.
It was this very "patriarchal" system of the early church that uplifted women out of the second-class citizen status in the ancient world. Husbands were brought to accountability and only have one wife, women were finally seen as equals, and widows did not have to feel shamed to be single. These men and apostles protected women, not abuse them.
Abusers can come in the form of men or women. It's disingenuous to pin this on one gender, and see men as somehow more fallible than women because they are physically stronger.
But most troubling of all, I found very revealing that you said, "it becomes about whose interpretation is correct."
This is very unbiblical, as Christians are to have a Berean spirit, dividing and deciphering the truth about God's word above all.
This is the Christian mission, calling, and highest honor. To downplay in this way, the precious debating over the meaning of biblical verses, is very serious.
I hope you reexamine your presuppositions and see if God's wisdom is not inferior, but superior to today's humanism-informed perspective.
His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8). Remember that. We are told that earthly wisdom is not trustworthy but demonic (James 3:15).
You're right that the phrase "head of the household" is not in the Bible. But it does say this very clearly:
"He must be one who manages his children well, keeping his children under control, with all dignity." (1 Tim. 3:4)
So many of the empowered women I know are complementarian. Women who are the daughters of the King of kings are smarter than to surrender themselves to a sorry excuse of a husband who is abusive. They know their worth, and are too busy to be ever involved with men who lack control over their emotions. The caricature of the domineering husband in this video is very much the type complementarians would frown upon and rebuke.
I pray you come to repent. Today is the day of salvation. It's time to open your Bibles and check your biases at the door.
Rooting for you. 🙏
Grace and peace.
Egalitarianism is not the brainchild of “earthly wisdom,” as you seem to be suggesting. I realize you may not have had a scriptural basis for your egalitarian position when you held it, but there absolutely is one. James 3 is not an indictment of the scholarship we apply to scripture, neither is it instructing us to do a face-value reading of the Bible in order to know God’s will for us. It is His intention that we wrestle with scripture, debate its meaning with other Christians, study the languages of the original texts and the social contexts of the writers, and seek the Holy Spirit for discernment. Egalitarians have, in fact, done this, whether you agree with the position or not.
This statement in your comment really gave me pause:
“Women who are the daughters of the King of kings are smarter than to surrender themselves to a sorry excuse of a husband who is abusive. They know their worth, and are too busy to be ever involved with men who lack control over their emotions.”
The implication is that complementarian women who find themselves in abusive marriages were not smart enough to avoid it, or, at the very least, should know better than to submit to a husband once he has shown himself to be abusive. Surely you can defend a complementarian reading of scripture without disparaging victims of abuse.
@@Wren_Farthing
Hi there, 👋
I appreciate your feedback. I'm so glad you commented on my phrasing there because it gives me a chance to expand on my words.
As sons and daughters of the King, we SHOULD know better than to sin or look to be satisfied by things other than our Savior. But that doesn't translate to practice. We are sinners.
We are also all victims. We may kick ourselves after being victimized, seeing all the red flags after the fact. "Why did I let myself take all the mistreatment? I know better than that!" Yes, we all know better than that. And yet...
So you see, that was the lamenting tone I was taking there. Hope that makes sense! 🙏
Also, I've mentioned that I'm a former egalitarian. So no need to overdo it with the explanation of what egalitarianism is! 😀 Praying for you, whatever you may be going through right now. 🙏
@@gummylens5465
Thank you for the reply, and for your prayers. I will clarify that I have not personally experienced abuse in a patriarchal marriage, just felt the need to speak up on behalf of those who have.
I should also clarify that I wasn’t asking you for an explanation of egalitarianism. Rather, I was wondering whether those beliefs- when you held them- had a scriptural underpinning. If your own egalitarianism was a “humanism informed perspective” and not something you gleaned from scripture, you may be projecting that onto others who arrived at their position in good faith. I believe that patriarchy is a human invention that has continually frustrated and obstructed what is God’s intended relationship between men and women. I arrived at that understanding through careful reading of scripture, reading theologians who could explain the Aramaic and Greek, learning the historical contexts in which the scriptural texts were written, friendly debate with other Christians and prayerful appeals for discernment. Personal experience and observation have been meaningful, as have sociological studies like the ones alluded to in this video. All of this is valid, but my perspective starts with scripture. I feel certain I can say the same for Sheila and Keith after having engaged with much of their content.
I agree with the idea in this video that Complementarians are uniquely situated to anticipate abuses of power. The Bible has plenty to say about the corrupting force of power on those who wield it. Anyone holding to a theology in which power is unevenly distributed- even if they believe it is mandated by God Himself- should expect misuses of that power, and be ready to provide care and safety to victims. When abuse is uncovered in a complementarian context, there is often a rush to defend the theology, There would be less consternation from egalitarians and non-Christians if there were a rush to defend people instead.
If hierarchy in marriage is God's design and not man's creation then why does it have so many glaring design flaws.