Ever had a situation where you helped someone with their songwriting-offering ideas, lines, and corrections-but didn’t explicitly discuss splits beforehand? That happened to me. After the session, I casually mentioned my IPI info, assuming it was natural to share credits when co-writing. To my surprise, the other person reacted badly, burning bridges in the process. For me, it’s a given: if you collaborate on a song, there’s a share of the pie involved. I didn’t even expect an equal split-just something to acknowledge my input. But when they suggested I deserved 0%, it felt disrespectful. Ironically, they called me disrespectful for bringing it up. It was an eye-opener about the importance of clear communication and mutual respect in creative work. What’s your take on situations like this?
There's not a lot you can do when it comes to people like that. Except to not work with them again. Most people, I've found, are reasonable and if they use your ideas, will offer to cut you in before you have to ask. Hate ya had to go through that. ~CM
As Pat Pattison has said " 90% of your work is not your best 10%". That's a hard concept for many creators to grasp but no matter how you twist it, the math works.
Just havin' a song on hold IMHO should be a little victory to be quietly celebrated, independent or not. A lesson I learned early on when one of my songs was picked for an upcoming movie, I told all my family and buddies "Hey I got a sync placement on an HBO movie; only to find out later from the producers that they had cut my song from a full credit roll feature to only eight seconds in the middle. Still a nice placement but it taught me the hard lesson of remaining thankful and humble. Just Sayin Y'all
@@jimmystuckeysongs3859 the same thing happened to me in Hollywood they asked who could play guitar I said me I played guitar in a scene next day and invited all my friends and people to watch preview big event only to see like two seconds back of my head and cut,,,horrified,,, humbling to say the least that's why I came to Nashville to get more,,,
I had a hit writer friend from social media approach me about co-writing an idea he had. The idea was a non-starter in my mind from the beginning. but he was a friend, and I was honored, that he thought I could bring something to the party. We kept sending revisions back and forth for months, I was considering faking my own death to get out from under it:) Moral of the story, honesty is the best policy, no matter how bad it hurts, in all aspects.
Thanks guys, you just got a new sub - these videos are super helpful as someone who's a few years into songwriting, and can't seem to stop now that I've started. Random question - Marty mentioned songspace...is that sort of the "go to" among songwriters for managing and sharing catalogs? I do the usual google cloud stuff, but just curious if that is maybe a better place for organization and collaboration? TIA if you see this 🙏
Question: How do you guys deal with pitching to artists/A&Rs who can't make out the potential of a song, who pretty much needs it finished in order to understand..? Do you demo produce yourself good enough or do you only take bounces from a session with a producer? I'm a writer who's learned how to produce and is now both, but I was struggling for a long time trying to pitch with just work tapes or unfinished productions.
Not a simple answer. Really dependss on the genre of music, your relationship to whom your pitching to, and the style of the song. Country doesn't want full production. Sync and pop does. (so maybe you put together a team of collaborators with a track guy) Often in the christian music world they just want song starts. Not completed songs. But always, no matter how stripped down it is, make it sound professional. Even if it's a piano/vocal. Don't have poor vocals, etc. SongTown.com teaches our members to connect and learn the business. There's lots to learn but it can be learned quickly.
The idea, even if you're an artist, is to get as many other people cutting YOUR songs as possible. George Harrison and The Beatles recorded Here Comes The Sun and Something - think that George was thrilled to have several other artists record those songs AND PAY HIM! McCartney loved the idea of everyone and his brother recording Yesterday because HE got paid!!
So if one band or artist shows solid interest in your song but they appear to be dragging their feet on recording it, how long do you recommend a songwriter wait until they pitch it to someone else? Is there normally a written agreement that the artist has “x” amount of days, or an agreed upon date (in writing), that they have to record the song before a tunesmith usually expects before they pitch it to someone else? Thanks
There is no standard way of handling this. Different scenarios have different means necessary. No one really uses a contract of sorts. But even if one person is interested in recording your song, you can always play it for someone else and be honest and upfront and say that there’s interest somewhere else. Often it’s better to have multiple interest in a song so that it Forces the hand of someone to go ahead and record it and put the song out. Ultimately, it’s all about relationships and building open honest relationships with artist, producers, and managers, etc.
I was writing a song with someone remotely where he sent me a sheet of lyrics and I put music to it. We messaged each other back and forth and we both agreed that we had something good but that it could be improved. Then all of a sudden I stopped hearing back from him. There's no been no activity on his SongTown profile for the past 3 months nor any email replies from him. He is and old man so that's got me fearing the worst lol What would you do in a situation like that where you suddenly stop hearing back from a cowriter for whatever reason? Should I just take my melody and put my own lyrics to it if I never hear back from him? Or how long would you wait for a reply before you decide to do something else with the song?
Hi, if you’re asking what I’d do… for me personally I would leave that song alone and write a new song and melody today and tomorrow. Maybe you’ll hear from him in the future if there’s some life event going on. I’ve written 5,000 songs, so I don’t usually take a part of a song back. I move on and write a new one today. -CM
"(Can't Burn a Bridge) Made of Stone" - a song about a friendship/family that can survive anything. Could be a hit. Could be crap! Title might need work. 😅Lol. Just got that idea from this video and thought I'd share if anyone wants to mess with it!
Ask Diane Warren about pitching one song to multiple artists. She had a hit simultaneously on the charts with Leeann Rhimes and Carrie Underwood with the same song!
Sounds like Marty had a reverse “Cinderella” situation on that tragic title 🤣 Pleasure as always hearing you gentleman!
Thanks guys ❤
Ever had a situation where you helped someone with their songwriting-offering ideas, lines, and corrections-but didn’t explicitly discuss splits beforehand? That happened to me. After the session, I casually mentioned my IPI info, assuming it was natural to share credits when co-writing. To my surprise, the other person reacted badly, burning bridges in the process.
For me, it’s a given: if you collaborate on a song, there’s a share of the pie involved. I didn’t even expect an equal split-just something to acknowledge my input. But when they suggested I deserved 0%, it felt disrespectful. Ironically, they called me disrespectful for bringing it up. It was an eye-opener about the importance of clear communication and mutual respect in creative work. What’s your take on situations like this?
There's not a lot you can do when it comes to people like that. Except to not work with them again. Most people, I've found, are reasonable and if they use your ideas, will offer to cut you in before you have to ask. Hate ya had to go through that. ~CM
As Pat Pattison has said " 90% of your work is not your best 10%". That's a hard concept for many creators to grasp but no matter how you twist it, the math works.
Often yes… For me, it really depends on what stage of your development you are. A writer can go on long tears of amazing work. -CM
It's too early for math,,,but don't be sad,,, cause two out of three ain't bad,,,
Just havin' a song on hold IMHO should be a little victory to be quietly celebrated, independent or not.
A lesson I learned early on when one of my songs was picked for an upcoming movie, I told all my family and buddies "Hey I got a sync placement on an HBO movie; only to find out later from the producers that they had cut my song from a full credit roll feature to only eight seconds in the middle. Still a nice placement but it taught me the hard lesson of remaining thankful and humble. Just Sayin Y'all
I had the same thing happen before. Still a victory! ❤️ -Clay
@@jimmystuckeysongs3859 the same thing happened to me in Hollywood they asked who could play guitar I said me I played guitar in a scene next day and invited all my friends and people to watch preview big event only to see like two seconds back of my head and cut,,,horrified,,, humbling to say the least that's why I came to Nashville to get more,,,
I had a hit writer friend from social media approach me about co-writing an idea he had. The idea was a non-starter in my mind from the beginning. but he was a friend, and I was honored, that he thought I could bring something to the party. We kept sending revisions back and forth for months, I was considering faking my own death to get out from under it:) Moral of the story, honesty is the best policy, no matter how bad it hurts, in all aspects.
Haha, Been there! ~CM
Appreciate all the insight. The more I learn about the business and songwriting, one resounding theme keeps coming to mind: Its not about me.
Music is about all of us :) Write on!
Thanks guys, you just got a new sub - these videos are super helpful as someone who's a few years into songwriting, and can't seem to stop now that I've started. Random question - Marty mentioned songspace...is that sort of the "go to" among songwriters for managing and sharing catalogs? I do the usual google cloud stuff, but just curious if that is maybe a better place for organization and collaboration? TIA if you see this 🙏
Good to meet ya! Songspace was great but recently went out of business. Most writers have switched to DISCO or SessionStudio now. ~CM
@@SongTownUSA good to know, thanks Clay!
Cool, send it
We Critiqued 2,000 People's Songs (Here's What We Learned) ua-cam.com/video/NKZUvSyxGKA/v-deo.html
Question:
How do you guys deal with pitching to artists/A&Rs who can't make out the potential of a song, who pretty much needs it finished in order to understand..? Do you demo produce yourself good enough or do you only take bounces from a session with a producer?
I'm a writer who's learned how to produce and is now both, but I was struggling for a long time trying to pitch with just work tapes or unfinished productions.
Not a simple answer. Really dependss on the genre of music, your relationship to whom your pitching to, and the style of the song. Country doesn't want full production. Sync and pop does. (so maybe you put together a team of collaborators with a track guy) Often in the christian music world they just want song starts. Not completed songs. But always, no matter how stripped down it is, make it sound professional. Even if it's a piano/vocal. Don't have poor vocals, etc. SongTown.com teaches our members to connect and learn the business. There's lots to learn but it can be learned quickly.
The idea, even if you're an artist, is to get as many other people cutting YOUR songs as possible. George Harrison and The Beatles recorded Here Comes The Sun and Something - think that George was thrilled to have several other artists record those songs AND PAY HIM! McCartney loved the idea of everyone and his brother recording Yesterday because HE got paid!!
So if one band or artist shows solid interest in your song but they appear to be dragging their feet on recording it, how long do you recommend a songwriter wait until they pitch it to someone else?
Is there normally a written agreement that the artist has “x” amount of days, or an agreed upon date (in writing), that they have to record the song before a tunesmith usually expects before they pitch it to someone else?
Thanks
There is no standard way of handling this. Different scenarios have different means necessary. No one really uses a contract of sorts. But even if one person is interested in recording your song, you can always play it for someone else and be honest and upfront and say that there’s interest somewhere else. Often it’s better to have multiple interest in a song so that it Forces the hand of someone to go ahead and record it and put the song out. Ultimately, it’s all about relationships and building open honest relationships with artist, producers, and managers, etc.
Thanks for the info. Your videos are excellent.
I was writing a song with someone remotely where he sent me a sheet of lyrics and I put music to it. We messaged each other back and forth and we both agreed that we had something good but that it could be improved. Then all of a sudden I stopped hearing back from him. There's no been no activity on his SongTown profile for the past 3 months nor any email replies from him. He is and old man so that's got me fearing the worst lol
What would you do in a situation like that where you suddenly stop hearing back from a cowriter for whatever reason? Should I just take my melody and put my own lyrics to it if I never hear back from him? Or how long would you wait for a reply before you decide to do something else with the song?
Hi, if you’re asking what I’d do… for me personally I would leave that song alone and write a new song and melody today and tomorrow. Maybe you’ll hear from him in the future if there’s some life event going on. I’ve written 5,000 songs, so I don’t usually take a part of a song back. I move on and write a new one today. -CM
good advice!
Thanks!
"(Can't Burn a Bridge) Made of Stone" - a song about a friendship/family that can survive anything. Could be a hit. Could be crap! Title might need work. 😅Lol. Just got that idea from this video and thought I'd share if anyone wants to mess with it!
It has to have a bridge in it, I suppose 🙄😊
@@PaulSchwarz It could also be ironic if the song has no bridge
Ask Diane Warren about pitching one song to multiple artists. She had a hit simultaneously on the charts with Leeann Rhimes and Carrie Underwood with the same song!
Great song too! CM
Clay Loud,,, wearing Play Loud,,,
Live loud and play loud!
Send someone 2-3 songs. If they want to hear more, they'll ask and then you can send them more and more!
yes! CM
Sounds like classic sellers remorse. Someone buys at your asking price and you think, I should have asked for more...
Or maybe just excited that good things were happening and wanted to see how far they could go. ~CM :)
@@SongTownUSA Good point!
@@zvw444x3zefa I try to remember when I first started out as a writer. I made all the same mistakes. lol Thx for joining in on the conversation! !CM