I'm not the target audience
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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Answering twitch stream question about warhammer the old world and warhammer fantasy battles clip
![Transporting Armies Tier list - [Stream Clips]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/d8p0aXySR8s/mqdefault.jpg)
![Transporting Armies Tier list - [Stream Clips]](/img/tr.png)
I believe the old world and AoS can coexist. Peace and harmony will reign (hopefully).
It will, because both are awesome games for completely different reasons 😊
Ha ha ha! This war began not today, not 8 years ago, but from the birth of 40k, when the fb-elitist received a complex of an offended first child.🧒
This didnt age well
The only part of The Old World I was ever invested in was Mordheim. I was in on the ground floor of that game and setting. Because it was localised, it could change suddenly, and was easier to be invested in your guys rather than fielding a massive, unwieldy army.
Guess that's why I like Warcry and Underworlds now, and like elite AOS armies.
The problem is the copium of the ToW crowd unleashing a new wave of anger at AoS because of this ham-handed release.
I was a WHFB player since 2nd Ed. It's fine if you want a kinda generic Tolkien meets Holy Roman Empire and various euro-myth fantasy world. If you want high fantasy AoS is more interesting.
I also don't think 200+ pages of core rules works in 2024.
Honestly same. I was considering picking up the Tomb Kings because I love mummies and egyptian stuff, and AoS really doesn't have that (OBR Doesn't Count). But then I saw the launch box for tomb kings is supposedly going for $290 freedom buck and that killed it for me. Might pick up a handful of models here or there but, AoS all the way for me.
I’m right there with you. I thought for sure GW would be lowering the cost of entry on these starter boxes and what did they do? The exact opposite. AOS for me. I may convert extras from slaves to darkness to warriors of chaos though.
I hope the AoS community chooses not to sling evil towards the TOW community. No tit for tat here. Let's not be that kind of family 😂
That and being 290 freedom bucks makes it tougher considering the majority of the model quality. I hope the target audience gets what they want out of it, but I just hope underworlds and AoS don't suffer for it.
Nah, I will feel nothing but schadenfreude and point and laugh if Old World turns out bad. Fantasy heads get no pity with how revolting they behave.
The problem is not the toxicity at this point. It’s the question of is the Old fantasy community still alive enough to hold up the format.
The release came round so fast and I still feel nothing
It's a project for people who came back looking for the stuff they loved when they were kids 15 years later and found that it wasn't there any more, but are excited now that the opportunity is coming around again. More power to them.
It'll have a good release and level out like HH has. Then just get a trickle release schedule, annual FAQ, and no official army builder.
I think GW knows this will be a niche game and has set expectations accordingly (handing it to the Forgeworld studio, mostly reusing old sculpts, limiting faction scope - for now). It’s actually kind of nice to see them make a game laser-focused on one audience in an age where everything is trying to be mass market and appeal to everyone.
It’s not for me, though. I made peace with the end of WHFB and have moved onto other games.
I wouldn't wish a doubling in heart size to anyone 😂
The tragic post-credits sequence in The Grinch where he's diagnosed with cardiomegaly :(
@@HeyWoah The Grinch just received the magic meritocracy of Christmas. His gift for years of steroids was cardiomegaly.
I want it to be successful, mainly for the models. Especially if they add new updated plastic models of characters that are in Total War 3 or Vermintide 2. AOS players could proxy Deathmaster Sknitch model as a Deathmaster in AOS, or Tsarinna Katarina as a battle wizard, etc. We could even get an Ubersreik Five Underworld Warband.
Yeah but we'll never see Cathay or Kislev if the $300 boxes of lumpy ancient skeletons don't sell.
If you didn't know, Vermintide is an End Times adventure. So none of this will appear in the Old World.
Moreover, the Old World is already shown as absolutely not grimdark but as a typical black-and-white fantasy.
I feel like it would be way more interesting if it wasn't literally just made to make people who hate AoS happy. And if they actually made the army boxes fully new models and not just thrown together. Mostly the model part I mentioned.
I’m hyped for the Old World and I’m no AoS hater.
@hailhydra7959 like I said. I'm mostly talking about the army boxes having a mishmash of stuff, unlike previous games. I know it won't just be AoS haters who play this. But that's who has been begging for this since AoS came to be. Same goes for HH players. You can also clearly see theirs favoritism between the two starting armies. Considering Bretonnia got twice the amount of new models.
When HeyWoah said "I wish them w..." I felt that
I think TOW is going to suffer from "too little, too late". They needed all new miniatures ready to go for a release that coincided with Total War Warhammer 3. They needed the Kislev army ready to rock on day 1, since it ties in with the vidya game, and they could have had some Tomb Kings and Brettonians like they have now. In addition, they should have put together a box of Daemons of Chaos (or at the very least a faction book), since they also tie in to TWW3. That way, you have the pseudo-nostalgia hit for those that want, but missed, Brets and TKs, you have (basically) a brand new army for the "old guard" in Kislev, and you have an army that uses existing pieces that you can just put on square movement trays to get into the game with models you already own in Daemons.
The Old World for me is just an art project. I really wanted those models when I was young and now I can paint them
I'm kind of interested in seeing lore connections between the two, considering that they are 100% the exact same continuity unless stated otherwise by having The Old World turn out to be an alternate universe where The End Times never happened, like how Storm of Magic is an alternate Warhammer Fantasy universe where Archaon got bashed by Grimgor, or Blood Bowl is a Warhammer Fantasy universe where Nuffle took over, or how Heroquest is a low key Warhammer Fantasy universe. There's precedent, and I wouldn't mind having a mainline version of the Fantasy setting where the apocalypse isn't a known quantity. I love both the AoS and WF settings, and they can coexist, there's zero question about that.
They are the same continuity
As an AoS and TOW fan I'm very excited and i hope that more people take the same attitude you have where there's no mud slinging over someone's preference in base shape
That ending sentiment got my like.
i love heywoahs deep dives into subjects like this :D
Never played Fantasy, never been interested in Square-based wargames, but OW has me intrigued. My friends have been building some hype for it, so that's got my interest piqued, but also I've finally played a few historical wargames with square bases and found them really interesting, both from a tactical perspective and aesthetically, so that's got me interested.
On top of that, I'm hoping it'll be somewhat more casual than AoS. I tend to spread my wargame seed around and play multiple wargames (though, it's beginning to calcify down to just a few) and AoS is something I've been burned out on for about a year now. Partially because I have a friend who won't talk about anything else and won't even try a different wargame and partially because the last tournament I attended was a bunch of sweaty try-hards that really ruined the experience for me.
I do enjoy the high level play in AoS and have been studying it a lot recently as I'm building a new army to attend a tournament with aforementioned friend, but I can't do it a all the time, which is why I like many other wargames. I can go to a tournament for a historical wargame (Bolt Action) and get a bunch of older dudes who are interested in the historical aspect of it and people my age (40) that are also burned out on the GW model of rules and constant updates.
I like the fantasy aspect of AoS, as well as the models and I'm hoping Old World will be something similar in a more casual package, with a more casual set of players. I want a game where I don't have to study battle tactics and deployment to really have the optimal experience. Again, I don't necessarily mind those aspects, but I've got two little kids, a wife and other hobbies and interests, so I need to take a break sometimes and not feel like I'm falling behind.
Ngl very well reasoned response. I was super hyped for it for a while, but after seeing what the launch is, I don't think I give a shit.
As someone who loved fantasy, even i dont think this is it. I like both AoS and WFB, but prefer the digestible and less convoluted, but even i think this is a miss. So many chances to really make the Tomb Kings so unique and cool and just grabbed some of the main units we also have in TWW, and gave us nothing new other than the dragon. Models arent quite as amazing as i was expecting, and i really wanted them to blow it out of the park.
I think going backwards a ton in the timeline was a mistake, and as much as i love Fantasy and it holds a great spot in my heart, but they shouldve just made an excuse for both existing. Nobody likes the end times anyway, and the books sucked. Re-write it so AoS and fantasy can both exist.
You’re literally missing the point. If you want awesome new models, you have AoS for that. People actually interested in WHFB are getting almost exactly what they wanted: a continuation from where Fantasy left off from.
@@YTHandlesAreDumb Thanks for the gatekeeping and telling me what people who are 'actually' interested in WFB think, i guess i should throw out my old models and books then since i was never a real fan at all. Silly me.
People want a continuation of where fantasy left off as far as the world, the factions, and the people and stories within it. People were wanting new saurus sculpts since before the AoS. You can continue off from where things left off, keep to the more subtle design of WFB, and still have more dynamic and well made models and sculpts, as well as new units we havent seen before.
The team of the Old World even said in the little QnA/interview thing on the GW site said we would see some units/tech that had been lost by the time the End Times hit, saying that there would be more steam tanks since its in fact closer to the time of their creation. Its not bizarre to- by that same logic, say that the Tomb Kings had some units/constructs that were rare enough and used in prior wars that by the End Times they were essentially gone.
Having it be a continutation of the Old World doesnt need to excuse mediocrity.
Also trying to gatekeep and talk down to someone who says they are a fan of WFB is the reason so many AoS players dont care.
@@spacepope7867 I’m not gonna read all that but I’m happy for you, or I’m sorry that happened
I think that it'll propably be somewhat similar to how the Horus Heresy turned out. It used to be all resin models which nobody likes dealing with and costs way too much, but it got a big push a couple years down the line with lots of new models that got people interested in actually playing it.
@@YTHandlesAreDumbyou definitely read that but just can’t think of a decent response 😂
I used to play warhammer fantasy from early to late 90's. Guess what, i'm not the target audience either.
Can't we all just get along. Feels like I'm seeing a lot of "dead on arrival" comments. Now I'm not saying we should be naive about gw or anything, but I feel like unthinking cynicism is even worse for the hobby, and society in general tbh.
I never played fantasy I only played 40k and AoS but I am stoked for the new game and ready to play all 3.
im not the target audiance either. i like the more hyper fantasy of AoS i like the multiple factions getting put together in get along shirts lore wise. and i will take lumineth over old high elves any day of the week even with their really stupid hats (to be fair olf high elves had really really stupid hats too)
In 100 seconds you showed way more respect to the old world/TWW and its fans than they have to age of sigmar in the past 7 years. I want the old world to be successful because I like rank and flank and I've tried very hard over the past couple years to get my local group to play kings of war unsuccessfully, and many of them expressed interest in old world. I do think GW are way off base with their pricing though, decades old models should not be going back up for the same price or more as they were on release, they just don't hold up that well compared to newer models. It's insane to me that the tomb kings box is nearly the same price as the age of darkness starter set when one is made up entirely of new models and the other has mostly 20 year old sculpts. I think there's a strong possibility it flops based on pricing alone, especially given that a major reason WFB died off to begin with was it being overpriced. Coming back straight in with 3000 point games and the starter sets giving you less than half of that for £155-£175 is just not a reasonable price point for what is basically a legacy game.
Also besides that, they've really fumbled the release. I want to play the old world, but I want to do wood elves and don't already have a WFB army because I only got into the hobby in 2019 with 40k. Likewise I have many friends in the same boat who want to play but don't already have an army, but aren't interested in bretonnians or tomb kings, so we're left twiddling our thumbs until GW actually release some boxes for our chosen factions, since it's unreasonable in this day and age to expect someone to start a new army entirely piecemeal. Their approach would work for a new edition of the game, but not a relaunch were a large amount of the target audience are not people who already have armies.
Unfortunately, what most old-fantasy folks actually want is a time machine.
My gaming group that plays heavily aos about a 1/4, including me will be playing old world.
As someone who WAS into WHFB, I could honestly not give a shit about The Old World. Maybe 5 years ago when AoS was still half-baked, maybe if the release had been handled by someone who got enough oxygen in the womb, maybe if Conquest didn’t blow it out of the damn water in every measurable way. But it’s too little too late and I think everyone but the graybeards and grognards has moved on to greener, better cast pastures and I don’t wanna play with those people anyway.
tbh I feel like The Old World is going to appeal to those aformentioned greybeards and grognards - but also the Total Warhammer crowd they manage to rope in (who will leave immediately once the price point hits them, if Total Warhammer fans will complain about a $30 DLC for only having "one new army", they're gonna complain about $60 for a single unit).
As you said, a lot of the less bitter grognards and old guard moved on to things like Conquest, Kings of War, or ironically modern AoS. Which are all just fun, polished games each with a respectable niche.
if fantasy received the same level of support that AoS has had it wouldnt have failed, already invested in AoS and will invest in the old world as well
I feel like we waited a very long time for not a whole lot.
Got caught in the hype train.
I don't care at all for the new ruleset, but Hell Yea more accesible models for 6th edition Fantasy
heywoah shortform content detected
What aspects of Warhammer Fantasy Battle's lore don't appeal to you? I'm genuinely curious. And what do you find more preferable about Age of Sigmar? Also, I absolutely love the Faction Focus guides. They played a significant role in why I decided to give Age of Sigmar another chance after initially experiencing it in its first edition.
oh hey thats me
Its frackin' expensive. I don't want to spend a fortune on a game that may be discontinued in 3 to 5 years. I was heavily debating on The Old World & GW by extension, but I'm seriously considering Conquest by Para Bellum Games. Its half the price, bigger minis & you can either skirmish or rank & file battle....USING THE EXACT SAME MINIS!!
Mainly I just wish it wasn't I go you go
Dead games are basically open source games IMO.
The rules are what they are.
You can add to it whatever you and your playgroup want to add.
You no longer need to run in the "new model" hamster wheel.
Make your own events with your friends.
A game I loved, died in 2009.
I recently found it still has an online community that is keeping it alive.
They even made new content for it.
Thats when I realized a "dead" game, is actually just an Open Source game.
So now, 15 years later, I'm playing my favorite game again. It's great.
Write some rules, get some friends together, and play. It's dice, and miniatures. We don't need big companies to make our games.
We just need each other.
God damn right. Like a lot of things, it takes a few years to notice. Ive been running a group for years like this. Its bliss.
I agree with you, HeyWoah. I'm not the target audience either. I'd have been willing to try the game if GW hadn't de-confirmed Dark Elves as a supported faction. But as it stands I might grab a few Old World kits for kitbashing/converting into my armies. But on the whole, as an actual game, this just ain't for me.
I played old fantasy 8th edition - It was ok but the balance was fubar between factions. - I'm not gonna pick up any box of that game.
'Free shrugs' hahaha!
The Old World just looks like just one big nostalgia hype. Nothing more. And I LIKE AND ALWAYS DREAMED AS A KID TO PLAY WFB! And here it arives once more... and I just want more KO, FS, and Votan. I will maube buy some dwarves but obly to kitbash them as "human", troops for my all duardin CoS.
The thing is-, the starter boxes are luterarly like 30 year old miniatures + 1 centerpiece of new. They have showed us literarly 4 new kits for TK.
And so many factions are not even incoulded, like hell, there are no Vampires XD
The ONE AND ONLY faction that would get me to consider new WFB is Chorfs. Amd there are no Chorfs for now xd
It was hyped for years and at arrival we get i think total of 6 or sth new kits, a lot of them resin. F it, I will chose AOS and 40K over it any time
I am exactly the target audience. No other game matters to me.
Everything I missed about Fantasy I can get from booting up Total War Warhammer. I think old world Lizardmen are incomparably better than the state of the dinos in AoS. I really miss the Tomb Kings, though I think a lot of the AoS undead are just as interesting if not more so.
Neither of those are enough to get me to buy plastic.
I feel like Old World is going to be like Horus Heresy for 40K a pretty ok side game but not my jam
Amen! Though, to me, its a pie in the sky wish. I have the unfortunate pleasure of asociating with more than a few of the "age of shitmar" crowd. Alot of them dont have it in them to not be venomous.
I am not sure it's going to be able easy sell to get people to buy models that are over 20 years old at modern day prices. It seems crazy but what do I know Crypt Horrors come in a box of 3 for $60 USD.
Real.
I hope so too that TOW just… allows people to finally find some peace and let go of the bitterness from nearly a decade ago from GW’s idiotic decisions and just enjoy the game they grew up with and see it go hopefully down a better path than the one Fantasy went down.
I also hope that it doesn’t just become a breeding ground/repository/rallying point for the same toxic people that also currently infest 40k. TOW doesn’t deserve to be used as just another tool for the “Lol Shitmar”crowd and other edgy man children to fling their feces out of.
Wishful thinking perhaps.
Just wait until GW leaves AOS to focus entirely on TOW, releases a bunch of outdated models with bad rules at an astonishing price, and fans of both sides accuse each other instead of GW
I was hoping we’d get a new version of the old stuff, rather than just literally 20-30 year old sculpts. Ebay exists. Kingdoms of War exists. 3d printing exists. The Old World crowd should be extremely disappointed in what GW is releasing not drunk on nostalgia-juice.
Honestly I just want new updated models of Bertrand the Brigand. But we're not gonna get that because he's from Modern Fantasy, not the Old World. I was a fan of Gotrek and Felix AFTER AoS started (which is a pretty cool setting) and I'm still catching up. Won't get Gotrek and Felix, they're 200 years after Old World. I was curious about getting maybe a few of the Bretonnian models after they got a needed refresh, boys are old. Nope, old model ranges and a couple new models that sold out before I could get one. Old World isn't DOA as shitlords keep saying, it's just underwhelming and I'm waiting to see if I get any good stories...but I won't know until the 20th.
I only joined the hobby around the time AoS first launched, so I have no nostalgia for fantasy. All I've heard for the past while was how I missed the bus, and that 8th Fantasy was very superior, so as you might have guessed, my opinion of WFB players was low. When I first heard about TOW, I did have a passing interest if only to see where they went with it. When they first showed the designs for Kislev, I was genuinely intrigued... then I saw everyone complain it looked too AoS, and now here we are. They wanted to go back to basics, and that's what they're getting. A basic assortment of armies. They got what they wanted, and now there seems to be a bit of remorse and regret. I don't think TOW Is DOA, but it's pretty much a premature baby that has very little chance of survival given the price is a barrier of entry. Not to mention, given the sheer amount of rules, and the length of the average game being quite long, I give it roughly two years before GW quietly starts slowing down support.
Release of the old world will finally show if the people who were constantly screaming about how AoS killed their greatest of all times game can put their money where their mouth is. Rules are basically the same, models are mostly the same, setting is literally the same - if the game flops they have no more convenient strawman to assign blame.
Considering the game isnt even out yet and the fantasy heads are already complaining every which way i and will still say we are the assholes for being born of the End Times woohaw.
Well ill just say i respect you for wanting the best for them.
And hey, more successful games means maybe more great models or at least better ways to get old ones we never got a chance to get back in the day. (I am eyeing that Brentonia box. I love me some knightly horse cav)
Warhammer fantasy fans will never be happy.
I play the old world, and I'm not interested in it at all, Aos is a better game!
*The Coming Of The Old Ones*
Mysterious in origin, and near-omnipotent in nature, the race known only as the Old Ones had plied the depths of the cosmos in magnificent silvered ships since time itself began.
They had looked upon the world from above, and found it to be good. By their reckoning, this world might play an important role in destiny, a place where great powers would vie for supremacy. They saw in the world the seed of something unknown and, as yet, unknowable, ripe with the promise of new realms and realities that might, in some distant future, erupt from the fires of destruction and chaos that would come to ravage this reality.
The future is predetermined, is no need to worry. All our future are belong to Age of Sigmar!🤘
Its okay not to be into old world. Old world is for boomers like me.
No one is (the target audience)
Sorry not sorry. Old world is DOA. It's just facts, not hate
I have no sympathy for fantasy players, bro just play the books right there. the models you bought 40 years ago are still there just go and play.
Or maybe just maybe the game was bad and nobody wants to play it anymore.
It will flop hard. The problem is that the target audience already has their armies, so they will not buy them. In all the groups I see, the people interested in ToW only plan to buy the new characters for their existing armies and the books.
TOW is definitely DOA
TOW has failed in being more compelling than Conquest and nostalgic enough to make me buy the same kits I was playing with 15 years ago but more expensive. No real hate but GW has lost good favor over time so that I don't want what was, but do like newer things.
Yeah tbh Conquest does rank and file gameplay with more up to date rules and sculpts (they're even working on fixing the deployment RNG issue, which is nice, appreciate the transparency). And if you want old fashioned chunky boys Kings of War is right there.
Old World will sell like crazy, but them not updating all the minis on release is insane. No one wants to buy metal minis in 2024 for the price of modern plastic minis.
The minis are metal? Wtf.
Logistically impossible for GW to do that many updates at once.
@@fellas4072 Some of them are. Some have been converted to what we know as FW resin (where previously they were metal). There will be no Finecast, so metal and FW resin are the alternatives. But the bulk of these armies are still plastic.
Based take
BIG
The old world died for a reason, just saying….
It is fundamentally important for me to keep TWO THINGS for my Warhammer miniature Collection: the Spirit of Warhammer's Grimadark and round bases.
Here none of this in the “triumphant returned” Old World, especially grimdark. Everyone has already understood about the noblebright female foot knights of Bretonnia and Settra the Evil Dummy.
But I have a way out: 40k-fication of my models! I will seriously work on replacing Stormcasts hammers with chain-axes, grenade-arrows for orruk archers and laser rifles for duardins!
"didnt much care for the models" ? arent at least 75% AoS models from WHFB? Ogor Mawtribes should be 90% WHFB kits
Yes I'm talking about my experience seeing whfb here and there 20 and 30 years ago, across its lifetime. The newest models got good eventually a little before it died.
Hereby revoking your dad gamer license for not being the target audience of the daddest of all the warhammers
I think the AoS community would need to find out tomorrow that eighty percent of the models they’ve bought built and painted are going to be invalidated in a few weeks to really appreciate the salt. Also, rebase EVERYTHING
I'm old enough to have seen and been party to many deaths of games, which is partly why I have this sympathy.
@@HeyWoah Wisdom sir. Wisdom.
@@williambailey118 In fact, GW did worse things: like, did you buy (10 years ago) overpriced Forge World resin models for your unique Custom Homebrew Homemade Space Marine Chapters? Did you also buy the new plastic Horus Heresy models for the same purpose because GW said that ALL Heresy-era models will be available for Warhammer 40,000 too?
Ha ha! Forget it! Your models are now only for Heresy game! Recolor them into one of the 18 legions to play with them!
More like Age of Shitmar hehe
Lmao gottem (I hate the salt of the community, I just want to play proper High Elves without antagonising anyone)
A lot of you guys are doomers on this game because you’re jaded and bitter. “This game is DOA unsupported hurr durr”
Did you seriously expect GW to release everything all at once? Are you just bitter because your army wasn’t chosen as a main focus for this relaunch? There is zero evidence that this game will go unsupported. Hell, I’d say this is a fantastic launch roster with lots of robust choices for both armies! Not everything, but not everything has to be released at once for it to be “supported.”
To the ones that are mature enough to realize they’re not interested, without being pessimistic asses, thank you. Everyone else, I wish you well and hope you grow as a person.
I think you’re shadowboxing
Who asked you though? lmao
As someone who played both games a ton, WFB at it's worst was still far superior to AOS at it's peak.
its fine if its not your thing I get it fantasy dudes slung shit at you guys since the death of fantasy but hopefully all is peaceful aos doesnt take away from 40k 30k didnt take away from 40k (it added shit until that was gotten rid of due to rules bloat) and this wont take away from aos hopefully with this returning fantasy fans can complain about GW fucking shit up rather then other games and maybe get into aos
this is cope of course but it could work