I'am fan of honda and will stay a fan of honda!! Importantly I think honda mistake was trying to make there bikes like Ducati's, if you look at honda 2002 bike you will see that it looked like a Japanese bike 🏍. Japan motorcycles back in the day side panels covered the front forks all you seen was the wheel cover. Now the side panels doesn't even cove half of the bike you see the whole entire forks. Plus other things that has changed! If honda goes back being honda again you will see changes in the way they race.
Honda paid mm a fortune, and he was riding very fantastic and overcame the development issues. However the bike need development and as the gp gets very competative more then ever not even mm can compensate the bikes lack of development , so he crashes over and over again . and get seriusly injured . Now the bike is so far of the pace and no one can bring it up not even mm when he came back and tried to get back in the top. More crashes ..... Honda spent to much money on mm and adjusted the bike to his riding style wich was great to some level, hovever they shood never let pederosa leave. He is a great bike developer and coud have made a very importent impact how to rebuild the bike to mach the todays standard together with the tec guys. They also forgot to take care of the second rider in the team, to much focus on mm Honda still have no top test rider today .......... Honda need to start over from the beginning, will they do that ? or will they wait and put the energy on the new bike 850cc at 2027 ?
Even given Honda's issues... Finishing a race and getting points is better than crashing out every damn race... Mark just can't swollow that pill and chill out until they fix the issues..
I’ve said this for years (since JL99 joined the team and couldn’t ride the bike) and everyone just laughed! The problem isn’t MM93, it’s the management of the team. Start by booting Alberto Puig and test rider Stefan Bradl and get fresh talent in those positions.
Imagine a world where Marc Marquez crashed out on Jerez 2020. Actually crash out the first time and not make that outrageous comeback to crash again and get seriously injured. Where would he be now? 9 time world champion for sure. Maybe he would have won in 2021 as well.
I’m at an age remembering the great riders of the 60s the bikes were 500 approx 4in tyres not super sticky like now yet the lap times were good the races close as it was skill of the riders not the computers of the manufacturers
I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere but have Honda changed the budget in recent years? How does each manufacturer compare on spending? It would be interesting to know.💰💰💰💰
It’s hard to say, they’ve recently said that they would never quit MotoGP and remain committed. But their budget would easily be more than any other team, just look at the wages they pay Márquez for example.
It can't get much worse. I'm of the mindset that they'll figure it out and make a competitive bike sometime in the next few years. Ducati sucked for over a decade before they nailed it. It's going to take time. The only thing that would bother me is if Honda pulled out or demanded rule changes. That would be the most wussy thing they could do.
I do believe it might start in 2025. But it up to them to make it happen. If they won't rebuild everything. Even their management, do not change their approach. These struggle will continue.
The Euro manufactures demanded rule changes when the Jap bikes were dominant and motoGP went to the standardized ECU. Why wouldn't Honda and Yamaha expect such concessions for them when it comes to aero and ride height devices?
Hasn't there been some sort of conspiracy against Japanese motorcycles with fuel inlection favouring European , like v-twine engines? Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
besides the rins win at cota this season has been the worst for hrc for sure in the grand prix paddock. don't count them out though Honda is a juggernaut when it comes to building fast bikes
Puig needs to go. Hire Suppo back if you can or get Brivio from Alpine because he's doing nothing there. The European manufactures are now dominant. You need a guy who can stand up to Japan & demand immediate developments. Brivio did this brilliantly with Suzuki. The Japanese manufactures are too conservative. Let Marquez go. A few years rebuilding are needed. Honda are in the same position Ducati were in when Stoner left. The template is already there. Listen to all your riders & build a bike everyone can ride, not just an Alien
Watching the GP, the most disturbing thing to me is those damn helmets they are making everyone wear. Honda will figure it out, Other companies have been in the same position for years, at this level if your settings are off a bit, its over, they will get through this period if they work hard.
It's Repsol Honda's worst 3 years ever. Its likely their problems started in 2017 already, but Marc's single-handed performances hid the truth. What the root cause is must be identified before a solution can be found. Obviously there are several challenges, but the single key one must be financial.
They are going to have to dig deep to fix this bike. It's not going to be a quick fix. This is an issue that has been in the making for years that they could ignore because Marc was there to win and ride around the problem so when he wasn't there to keep developing the bike that he could win in, those issues were put on display. I hope they stay and I read that they will so now it's time to build this bike in what's left of the season and then keep building this bike the next season until they get there. And I do believe they will but it's going to take commitment from everyone involved, Marc included, to make this bike win again.
"This is an issue that has been in the making for years that they could ignore because Marc was there to win" : this is not 100% right. At the very first season he arrived at the Repsol HRC, he rode a very good and better handling bike from Dani's references in many years, at the end they kicked him out. After that, he created his own design bike that become wild and destroyed his arm and all his hope. After all, bike development keep going wrong as it's like today.
I think honda needs the next best thing and that it is Pedro Acosta working with Marc.......its a mix of old and new. They will push each other, same as Acosta and Augusto, same as Acosta and Gardner
Two critical errors in a fiercely competitive sport: Fail to keep up. Try too hard to catch up. Honda has suffered both. MotoGP has arrived at the limit of peak two-wheeled performance. The next wave for all teams will be in full-race dominance. Fast and steady will be Honda's objective, and that is a whole lot easier said than done.
@@macsmith6216 And how many did he win after Dani left the team? I'll give you a clue. Dani left at the end of 2018. MM won in 2019. Any more??????? Nope
I don't think the Japanese manufacturers have their heart in as much as they use too They seem to like endurance racing but Gp seems more of a European passion.
If they loose their sponsorship from Repsol, the Honda crisis ill be infinitely worse. No oil company will step in now. Who will sponsor them then? Twitter? I mean “X”
This means one thing: Marquez is not able to really guide his team as whole team, and develope a motorbike, the japanese don't care about the motogp it's clear, he alsways had the arrogance of feeling so above the others, driving over the problems, that forgot about other aspects of the sport, and that is also why his bike now is 4/5 years back in development, it is very simple.
Agree with you. The other issue is people look at his championships (MM) and not his ability to develop the Honda. It worked when he was winning because he rode around the problems. Plus they had CS27 developing to a small extent. But Honda ignored him because they had a wonder kid riding around Hondas problems. But what Honda ignored was looking at where the next Honda was finishing after him. Dani Ped and Cal C were doing ok. But when they retired, ever rider has had their careers messed up. JL99 and now J Mir.
Kinda, but the fact that he got a Kalex in the best team of the class.. Hmm, I think he is just doing enough. He is still sit half & less than half victories to both Raul & Marc Marq in this class. He must break that record to awe the fans when he goes up next year. Honda is definitely interested with P. Acosta. However KTM will never ever allow him to go like that. And Pedro seems want to show his talent & commitment to which brand will show how important he is.
Honda built a bike for the riding style of one rider, MM. Since MMs injury woes now he can't even handle the beast. They gambled on this approach and are now seeing the results.
Marc Marquez tem que dar uma benzida, tirar olho grande desse Rossi, essa turma da inveja, a Honda não pode tá tão ruim assim não, ano todo e não conseguiram arrumar a moto, só tombo, procura um padre, conversa com ele, toma um banho na água benta, tirar essa urucubaca, aí vai melhorar de novo.
I think the only thing that's going to help with Honda and Yamaha at this point is going to be tires. In my opinion, these bikes don't work the best with Michelin. But I bet that if they were able to try different tire manufacturers they would be able to find something that works for them better than what the Michelin does. No offense to them, but all riders have the same complaint. Losing grip. Yamaha in the rear, Honda front and rear. Well, maybe either the compounds or shape of the tires are just not quite what the bike needs. Unfortunately, dorna being sponsored by Michelin, don't see this happening. But let's think about it here, if they had a chance to try something else, not only would that create some actual competition between tire manufacturers to improve the tires (some manufacturers do different things to accomplish the same or better result) and would light a fire under Michelin to maybe realize they are bringing their current best but it may not be the best for everyone and there may be some improvements needed. I believe that the stiffness of the euro bikes play well with the softness of the Michelin carcasses. But on a softer chassis yamaha or Honda or even suzuki, I have better feel and confidence with a harder carcass tire. And let's be real, they can only pick from what's brought by Michelin now. Just because the tire is safe and will make race distance, that doesn't make a difference on rider feel and ultimately if they are uncomfortable or have low confidence in the tire like Marc 100,000% absolutely does now, they can't push. Might as well be out there just riding around. Idk, that's my opinion, just seeing how well the yamahas work with dunlops in motoamerica and feeling the difference in how the tires feel both in firmness and in stickiness and chassis flex etc... I mean, kinda makes sense. I'm sure there are other solutions out there, but this one just seems super obvious to me and I don't know why (other than $$$$$$$) they haven't tried it. But if it were me, I would at least let them try it to see IF it could help. Edit: i think it would be cool to have a all tire manufacturers available to every team so they could try say bridgestone the first 20m of p1 and pirelli the 2nd dunlop and michelin in p2 or whatever. That would be kind of cool, and would also make tire manufacturers compete like theres no tomorrow. No more bring 2 specs of tires. No because eqch manufacturer needs something different at every track. Each rider may need something different at each track. And ultimately, this could benefit us street guys in the end. Just saying, give the riders what they actually want but dint realize they want because they dont know any different at this point
The tires are indeed a problem. MM93 finished his first race this year, partially because he went with a soft rear. The Honda has been having traction issues on the rear that are evidenced by the high sides.
I think the best thing to do is to change the management & the entire approach of the team. After all we do know that Marc will eventually leave this brand beyond 2024. So, they should instead invest to young riders like the current Moto2 runner up Tony Arbolino. Putting him at LCR Honda outfit for the next season to prepare when Marc leaves would be the best option. With Ogura resistance to move up. Just maybe they could give Taka spot to some who wanted it. Of course a rider with a proper support like what Idemitsu can give. Therefore that rider would be no other than J. Dixon.
@@macsmith6216 I know but how could he moves up to MotoGP if he doesn't got a team. Yes, he is in the contention to land a ride at Gresini but a 3x Gp winner in F. Morbidelli would be tough to beat on that spot.
@@macsmith6216 of course, everybody knew that. Only few believed Dixon got it. He took 5 seasons to win a race. There is no need of any explanation in case he managed to get a seat next year. Everybody knows he is backed by TNT Sport.
@@rootsraddik yah, because Idemitsu finance everything & share a hefty amount of money to LCR. However, if some riders who came from America, UK or in the Central Europe who have the same support that like these Honda Asian back riders have. I do think they can able to get the spot for at least 2 season. If they do well, they might continue.
If only the podcast was still around 😢👀
There's a new one look up; OMG MotoGP
they have done 2 episodes so far
Please bring the podcast back 😢
I have a feeling it's the result of spending several years building a bike for an abnormally talented rider who doesn't exist anymore.
I'am fan of honda and will stay a fan of honda!! Importantly I think honda mistake was trying to make there bikes like Ducati's, if you look at honda 2002 bike you will see that it looked like a Japanese bike 🏍. Japan motorcycles back in the day side panels covered the front forks all you seen was the wheel cover. Now the side panels doesn't even cove half of the bike you see the whole entire forks. Plus other things that has changed! If honda goes back being honda again you will see changes in the way they race.
Pedrosa told them for years the bike was no good.
Heart broken year for hrc 😣💔
Made the same mistake as Ducati in the Stoner years; they saw their 'alien' fighting at the front and assumed their other riders were the problem.
Honda paid mm a fortune, and he was riding very fantastic and overcame
the development issues. However the bike need development and as the gp gets
very competative more then ever not even mm can compensate the bikes lack of
development , so he crashes over and over again . and get seriusly injured .
Now the bike is so far of the pace and no one can bring it up not even mm when he
came back and tried to get back in the top. More crashes .....
Honda spent to much money on mm and adjusted the bike to his riding style wich
was great to some level, hovever they shood never let pederosa leave. He is a
great bike developer and coud have made a very importent impact how to rebuild
the bike to mach the todays standard together with the tec guys.
They also forgot to take care of the second rider in the team, to much focus on mm
Honda still have no top test rider today ..........
Honda need to start over from the beginning, will they do that ? or will they wait and
put the energy on the new bike 850cc at 2027 ?
Even given Honda's issues... Finishing a race and getting points is better than crashing out every damn race... Mark just can't swollow that pill and chill out until they fix the issues..
Imagine all the titles this man would not have won if he had had that attitude.
@@CaraMarie13 Finishing races wins titles, not crashing every single race
I’ve said this for years (since JL99 joined the team and couldn’t ride the bike) and everyone just laughed! The problem isn’t MM93, it’s the management of the team. Start by booting Alberto Puig and test rider Stefan Bradl and get fresh talent in those positions.
Imagine a world where Marc Marquez crashed out on Jerez 2020. Actually crash out the first time and not make that outrageous comeback to crash again and get seriously injured. Where would he be now? 9 time world champion for sure. Maybe he would have won in 2021 as well.
I’m at an age remembering the great riders of the 60s the bikes were 500 approx 4in tyres not super sticky like now yet the lap times were good the races close as it was skill of the riders not the computers of the manufacturers
the bike was still important then - you had MV Agusta triples dominating against Manx Norton singles
I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere but have Honda changed the budget in recent years? How does each manufacturer compare on spending? It would be interesting to know.💰💰💰💰
It’s hard to say, they’ve recently said that they would never quit MotoGP and remain committed. But their budget would easily be more than any other team, just look at the wages they pay Márquez for example.
Is very sad I love Honda and i allways will but I know they are going to recover from this they are the best and they are going to find the way.
It can't get much worse. I'm of the mindset that they'll figure it out and make a competitive bike sometime in the next few years. Ducati sucked for over a decade before they nailed it. It's going to take time. The only thing that would bother me is if Honda pulled out or demanded rule changes. That would be the most wussy thing they could do.
I do believe it might start in 2025. But it up to them to make it happen. If they won't rebuild everything. Even their management, do not change their approach. These struggle will continue.
The Euro manufactures demanded rule changes when the Jap bikes were dominant and motoGP went to the standardized ECU. Why wouldn't Honda and Yamaha expect such concessions for them when it comes to aero and ride height devices?
Hasn't there been some sort of conspiracy against Japanese motorcycles with fuel inlection favouring European , like v-twine engines? Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
What GP bikes are VTwin?
How the mighty have fallen. Truly crazy!
It is crazy. It's too sad for me to watch.
besides the rins win at cota this season has been the worst for hrc for sure in the grand prix paddock. don't count them out though Honda is a juggernaut when it comes to building fast bikes
nicky what?
we all know when pedrosa go away ....repsol die ....and marcez its not good to make a bike !!
Yes. The worst
Puig needs to go.
Hire Suppo back if you can or get Brivio from Alpine because he's doing nothing there. The European manufactures are now dominant. You need a guy who can stand up to Japan & demand immediate developments. Brivio did this brilliantly with Suzuki. The Japanese manufactures are too conservative.
Let Marquez go. A few years rebuilding are needed.
Honda are in the same position Ducati were in when Stoner left.
The template is already there. Listen to all your riders & build a bike everyone can ride, not just an Alien
Watching the GP, the most disturbing thing to me is those damn helmets they are making everyone wear. Honda will figure it out, Other companies have been in the same position for years, at this level if your settings are off a bit, its over, they will get through this period if they work hard.
It's Repsol Honda's worst 3 years ever. Its likely their problems started in 2017 already, but Marc's single-handed performances hid the truth. What the root cause is must be identified before a solution can be found. Obviously there are several challenges, but the single key one must be financial.
They are going to have to dig deep to fix this bike. It's not going to be a quick fix. This is an issue that has been in the making for years that they could ignore because Marc was there to win and ride around the problem so when he wasn't there to keep developing the bike that he could win in, those issues were put on display. I hope they stay and I read that they will so now it's time to build this bike in what's left of the season and then keep building this bike the next season until they get there. And I do believe they will but it's going to take commitment from everyone involved, Marc included, to make this bike win again.
"This is an issue that has been in the making for years that they could ignore because Marc was there to win" : this is not 100% right. At the very first season he arrived at the Repsol HRC, he rode a very good and better handling bike from Dani's references in many years, at the end they kicked him out. After that, he created his own design bike that become wild and destroyed his arm and all his hope. After all, bike development keep going wrong as it's like today.
I think honda needs the next best thing and that it is Pedro Acosta working with Marc.......its a mix of old and new. They will push each other, same as Acosta and Augusto, same as Acosta and Gardner
Two critical errors in a fiercely competitive sport: Fail to keep up. Try too hard to catch up. Honda has suffered both.
MotoGP has arrived at the limit of peak two-wheeled performance. The next wave for all teams will be in full-race dominance. Fast and steady will be Honda's objective, and that is a whole lot easier said than done.
They didn't listen to Dani but only to MM. There are your results.
@@macsmith6216 And how many did he win after Dani left the team? I'll give you a clue. Dani left at the end of 2018. MM won in 2019. Any more??????? Nope
Such a terrible take. Marc was pretty much out from 2019-2022 and the bike got WORSE while away
Mark got seriously injured and now he is afraid to crash on other riders....
I don't think the Japanese manufacturers have their heart in as much as they use too
They seem to like endurance racing but Gp seems more of a European passion.
DNFs don't speak well of Honda's endurance engineering.
@@stuartspeer5452 How many dnf's are mechanical failures?
If they loose their sponsorship from Repsol, the Honda crisis ill be infinitely worse.
No oil company will step in now. Who will sponsor them then? Twitter? I mean “X”
damn, the foreshadowing.. repsol is really pulling out from honda.
Goes with the rise of dorna. Dont it.
This means one thing: Marquez is not able to really guide his team as whole team, and develope a motorbike, the japanese don't care about the motogp it's clear, he alsways had the arrogance of feeling so above the others, driving over the problems, that forgot about other aspects of the sport, and that is also why his bike now is 4/5 years back in development, it is very simple.
Agree with you. The other issue is people look at his championships (MM) and not his ability to develop the Honda. It worked when he was winning because he rode around the problems. Plus they had CS27 developing to a small extent. But Honda ignored him because they had a wonder kid riding around Hondas problems. But what Honda ignored was looking at where the next Honda was finishing after him. Dani Ped and Cal C were doing ok. But when they retired, ever rider has had their careers messed up. JL99 and now J Mir.
There is something different Acosta brings out in very talented riders
Kinda, but the fact that he got a Kalex in the best team of the class.. Hmm, I think he is just doing enough. He is still sit half & less than half victories to both Raul & Marc Marq in this class. He must break that record to awe the fans when he goes up next year.
Honda is definitely interested with P. Acosta. However KTM will never ever allow him to go like that. And Pedro seems want to show his talent & commitment to which brand will show how important he is.
What happened? Mark Marquez happened.
They built a bike for him and he rode around problems thats why the rest of the Honda riders were never up there
areo has changed everything and not for the better
Honda built a bike for the riding style of one rider, MM. Since MMs injury woes now he can't even handle the beast. They gambled on this approach and are now seeing the results.
No
MM might as well hang up boots
@@macsmith6216 yep time will tell
@@macsmith6216Pit is just stringing him along , they don't need him
Marc Marquez tem que dar uma benzida, tirar olho grande desse Rossi, essa turma da inveja, a Honda não pode tá tão ruim assim não, ano todo e não conseguiram arrumar a moto, só tombo, procura um padre, conversa com ele, toma um banho na água benta, tirar essa urucubaca, aí vai melhorar de novo.
Karma
As with Yamaha, start with the management in the teams. Puig and Jarvis had their chance.
I think the only thing that's going to help with Honda and Yamaha at this point is going to be tires. In my opinion, these bikes don't work the best with Michelin. But I bet that if they were able to try different tire manufacturers they would be able to find something that works for them better than what the Michelin does. No offense to them, but all riders have the same complaint. Losing grip. Yamaha in the rear, Honda front and rear. Well, maybe either the compounds or shape of the tires are just not quite what the bike needs. Unfortunately, dorna being sponsored by Michelin, don't see this happening. But let's think about it here, if they had a chance to try something else, not only would that create some actual competition between tire manufacturers to improve the tires (some manufacturers do different things to accomplish the same or better result) and would light a fire under Michelin to maybe realize they are bringing their current best but it may not be the best for everyone and there may be some improvements needed. I believe that the stiffness of the euro bikes play well with the softness of the Michelin carcasses. But on a softer chassis yamaha or Honda or even suzuki, I have better feel and confidence with a harder carcass tire. And let's be real, they can only pick from what's brought by Michelin now. Just because the tire is safe and will make race distance, that doesn't make a difference on rider feel and ultimately if they are uncomfortable or have low confidence in the tire like Marc 100,000% absolutely does now, they can't push. Might as well be out there just riding around. Idk, that's my opinion, just seeing how well the yamahas work with dunlops in motoamerica and feeling the difference in how the tires feel both in firmness and in stickiness and chassis flex etc... I mean, kinda makes sense. I'm sure there are other solutions out there, but this one just seems super obvious to me and I don't know why (other than $$$$$$$) they haven't tried it. But if it were me, I would at least let them try it to see IF it could help.
Edit: i think it would be cool to have a all tire manufacturers available to every team so they could try say bridgestone the first 20m of p1 and pirelli the 2nd dunlop and michelin in p2 or whatever. That would be kind of cool, and would also make tire manufacturers compete like theres no tomorrow. No more bring 2 specs of tires. No because eqch manufacturer needs something different at every track. Each rider may need something different at each track. And ultimately, this could benefit us street guys in the end. Just saying, give the riders what they actually want but dint realize they want because they dont know any different at this point
The tires are indeed a problem. MM93 finished his first race this year, partially because he went with a soft rear. The Honda has been having traction issues on the rear that are evidenced by the high sides.
Maybe Remy Gardner at Idemitsu LCR team because he's Aussie?
@@macsmith6216 won't that depend on Bez and Zarco?
I think the best thing to do is to change the management & the entire approach of the team. After all we do know that Marc will eventually leave this brand beyond 2024. So, they should instead invest to young riders like the current Moto2 runner up Tony Arbolino. Putting him at LCR Honda outfit for the next season to prepare when Marc leaves would be the best option.
With Ogura resistance to move up. Just maybe they could give Taka spot to some who wanted it. Of course a rider with a proper support like what Idemitsu can give. Therefore that rider would be no other than J. Dixon.
@@macsmith6216 I know but how could he moves up to MotoGP if he doesn't got a team. Yes, he is in the contention to land a ride at Gresini but a 3x Gp winner in F. Morbidelli would be tough to beat on that spot.
@@macsmith6216 of course, everybody knew that. Only few believed Dixon got it. He took 5 seasons to win a race. There is no need of any explanation in case he managed to get a seat next year. Everybody knows he is backed by TNT Sport.
LCR ride of Taka will ONLY go to an ATC rider.... not a European or any Caucasian.
@@rootsraddik yah, because Idemitsu finance everything & share a hefty amount of money to LCR. However, if some riders who came from America, UK or in the Central Europe who have the same support that like these Honda Asian back riders have. I do think they can able to get the spot for at least 2 season. If they do well, they might continue.
As with Yamaha, start with the management in the teams. Puig and Jarvis had their chance.