Mark Driscoll: Winning the Biggest War
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- Опубліковано 15 лис 2024
- John sits down with Pastor Mark Driscoll for a deep, winding and wide ranging conversation.
👉🏻 See John's comment below in thread
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Mark Driscoll is both deeply loved and utterly despised. I’ve listened to hours of podcasts, met with former church members, and read countless comments from his critics alleging he is guilty of all kinds of terrible things. While he has repented of some mistakes he’s made in the past, he has not repented of the more serious criticisms, I believe, because he’s simply not guilty of them. You can draw your own conclusions, but I wanted to give you a few points below regarding how I have drawn my own opinions about the controversial Mark Driscoll. This is not comprehensive, but is rather a quick 30,000 ft fly over, as I see it.
1. This first point alone should in my opinion disprove the major criticisms against him. Driscoll planted his newer church in Scottsdale, AZ at the urging of his wife and kids. To this day he has grown adult children who are married and are serving with their dad at the church. I’ve met his wife and kids and I’ll tell you they deeply love him and work side by side with him daily. If Driscoll were a mean-spirited bully of a man, then there is zero chance that his wife would be smitten by him (as she clearly is) and that his kids would stay so close and opt to do ministry with him. It’s simply impossible. They would have distanced themselves as soon as they could. Their family would be cold and bitter if Driscoll is who he’s accused of being.
2. I have heard Driscoll’s side of the story which the public (and his main critics) have not heard. The public has only heard from disgruntled elders who were fired and upset. The original group of about 8 former elders of Driscoll that were his main critics have mostly abandoned the Christian faith since Mars Hill changed hands. Some of them were put in prison, cheated on their wives with prostitutes, fell heavy into drug and alcohol abuse, gone woke, and many of them have died from various causes in the last few years. As I look at the result of where Driscoll is today vs his where his early and most motivated critics are, it looks like their lives fell apart while his life has flourished. In other words, I’m ‘considering the outcome of their faith’. There are other former members of his church who do not know the full story and are confused, and there are former elders who speak about him authoritatively but who didn’t really know or interact with him (there were so many churches with elders around the country that Driscoll had never even met some of the ones that came out later as critics). Major publications like ‘Christianity Today’ did much to add to the attacks on Driscoll, but I find no respect or trust for that publication that has largely gone woke and I now regard as the CNN of the Christian world.
3.I think Driscoll has been anointed in a special way by God to pastor the most difficult to reach demographic there is - young men. If young men get passionate about Jesus, then the entire culture will shift and change to follow suit. Statistically, if you get men into church, the whole family will get saved and join the church. This makes Driscoll enemy #1 in the crosshairs of hell. I believe there was a demonic plan at the highest offices of hell to undermine the work God is doing through Driscoll’s ministry. But still his preaching gift is stronger than ever, and his wisdom-share is so incredible it must be coming from God Himself. Furthermore his reach is not diminished (except where Big Tech can suppress it), as his website and podcast are garnering MILLIONS of views each month. Driscoll has claimed to have been spoken to audibly by God multiple times. You have to decide he’s either (1) mistaken and crazy, (2) lying, or (3) God has spoken to him in a special way. If you think it might be the last option, then I would tread more carefully in believing the mainstream narrative about him and casting stones. What if you were wrong about him and found yourself joining the foray of Job’s friends in offering accusations that opposed a true servant of God? I’d urge more caution and more benefit of the doubt.
4. I was able to meet the leaders of Driscoll’s current church and get to know them in a recent visit I made to Arizona. I was thoroughly impressed by the 10-15 men I got to know that were leading the biggest areas of Trinity Church. I would have followed any of them - that’s how impressed I was by them. They struck me as manly leaders that were highly competent, passionate, and intelligent. I surmised that this group of men were not at all ‘yes-men’ and were not the type that could be bullied or manipulated easily. If Driscoll were less of a man and a leader, I know he would have selected far weaker and less assertive type of staff to work with him. Instead, I saw individuals who were impressive leaders in their own right. Their presence was an incredible apologetic against the popular narrative of Driscoll and his leadership.
5. I do not doubt that Driscoll may have been overly tough with some of the people in his church and leadership, but I’d also add that in a day and age where men are so emasculated and weak, that strong masculinity in all its boldness and directness would offend weaker men. America cannot and will not tolerate strong masculinity that calls out sin so readily and plainly. I personally flock towards a grittier and tougher Christianity that doesn’t bubble wrap hard truths so they are more palatable. A stronger Biblical masculinity is what I see represented in Scripture and not the increasingly more watered down, effete version of it running rampant through American churches today. What if he’s not too strong, it’s just that we’re too delicate to receive what he’s saying? I know Jesus’ main persecutors were from the religious crowd that couldn’t stand what he was saying. Jesus was lied about and slandered as a drunkard, and glutton and I think there was a propaganda war against Him. Driscoll is certainly no Jesus… but I do think he serves Him and I do not believe the demonic hit-job that was levied against him. Sure, he’s sinned just like all of us have, but I don’t think there is anything that disqualifies him from the ministry and I will follow him as I have for over 10 years. Decide for yourself away from the noise by watching and listening: thetrinitychurch.com/sermons/
So John, are you ready to take back everything you said about mark after he said he doesn't even know what you do. LoL
Well said.
I usually don’t take someone seriously when they say they audibly heard God speak to them. The Bible says that which you hear in the ear that preach ye on the rooftops. I also usually don’t take someone seriously if they say that God uses a special name or word for them like “Son, daughter, beloved” and it’s usually something clever like what he said “Son, you gave me your sin, why can’t you give me your reputation?” I like what this guy is saying and I get it. I’ve seen an “extra spiritual” movement form out of the Baptist/ Calvinist camp that, though I’m not saying that this is what he is. I’m compelled to learn more about Mr. Driscoll and grab a book when I’m there. Thanks for the video
You forget the parts where he:
1) stole intellectual property (plagiarism)
2) used hundreds of thousands of dollars of his church’s money to artificially get on the best seller list
3) decided to leave mars hill with a $650k severance while leaving scraps behind for the ~10 or so church plants that came out of the wreckage
4) uses the “God told me I’d be falsely accused of sexual infidelity” card to justify his abandonment of the thousands of people who cared for him
Driscoll is a heretic. Pastor Chris Rosebrough has reviewed Driscoll many times.
John and Mark, it’s is better to be on the right side of eternity than society. Thank you for this
Been following Mark since he started Trinity Church and even got to visit once. As you said, fantastic bible teacher. Glad you guys got to sit down. Excellent conversation. God bless.
You did the right thing doing this podcast. Thank you for being bold enough to take a stand.
I saw Mark Driscol for the first time on WPS. I have been an avid follower of Mark ever since. Thank you for what you do.
To be a Christian leader, means giving your reputation to God
What an incredible quote coming from a man like Mark Driscoll
Pastor Driscoll is a man's man. A man's Pastor. ONLY listen to him if you can handle the Truth. GOD bless America, President Trump, pastor Driscoll and Mr. Lovell. 🙏🏻🇺🇸🙏🏻
Hey John, I love your content. Truly. Lots of valuable information and conversations to be had around the library of videos you have built. That said, I am really disappointed by your choice to give Mark Driscoll a platform. I used to attend Mars Hill church. In fact, that's where I became a christian. So I have some very important and fond memories of the church and my community there. That said, I was also deeply hurt by the damage he caused. I won't go into my full testimony here, but becoming a christian and then finding out that your pastor is an ego-maniac within the course of a year is an aggressive rollercoaster ride. I also through direct friendship that his un-nuanced approach towards complementarianism at Mars Hill hurt many couples, and even put some women in danger from abusive spouses.
I understand that all people can and do change. And I would like to think that Mark has learned and changed and repented, as you posted in your pinned comment. That said, just because someone repents of sin does not mean that they should be given a platform. I still plan on being a frequent visitor to your channel and think you have a lot of valuable content to share. I think the idea of the Warrior Poet Society is critical to modern masculinity. BUT. I think platforming Mark Driscoll is wrong and I am disappointed that you have done so.
This in no way means that I think that Mark should not have the right to go on your show, or that you or he should be censored from doing so.
wait! so no redemption even after repentance?! i hope you’re not serious. that doesn’t sound very Christlike. this is why humans would make crummy gods. i sure hope for your sake you can forgive & move on very soon. otherwise the Good Book says that Almighty God will not forgive you.
Thank you for having Mark on, been following his teachings for many years, he’s my favorite Bible teacher. Funny to see all the negative comments on here about him that he will never see because he doesn’t look on the internet.
I first heard Driscoll back in 2000s in my 20s and was disengaged from faith and focused on the worldly. Listening to his podcasts and app helped me progressively get back on track, back in church where I met my wife etc. and now have a family. This was his explicit goal in his preaching and I am one of many examples of that fruit. Never believed the allegations…
When I was 17 and in boot camp I was a scared kid, an older prior service PFC saw this and took me to his Baptist church on Sunday. Never had such an amazing time, the singing, the tears, the love, don't think I've ever been hugged so much.(btw, I'm a white guy and this was a black church in Kentucky). There was an energy in that room that was like a spark in my soul. Going there on Sundays got me through basic. Later I went to similar churches that got me through 11e ait, jump school, etc etc.
Fantastic interview!! Thank You for this video! Agreed Mark is Amazing, Christ Is Amazing!! 💪🇺🇸✝️
Excellent conversation! Jesus is amazing
Hey! You listen to this stuff! I wish my wife would follow you even more now. Do you have an insta? She’s always on there
It's very masculine and biblical to be under elder leadership, and even discipline when necessary. Especially for pastors. Very hard, and very masculine. More importantly, it's biblical.
Its also outdated. None of those things are actual indicators of a good leader
I respect your approach and am a fellow lover of Jesus. I have worked in similar ministries with one man leadership like a Mars Hill and can say two things without a doubt, 1) they are typically annointed and great speakers and 2) they are complete garbage at being effective leaders of people.
I also listened, watched, and researched Driscoll and don’t share your personal appreciation for him and think he clearly owes some people an apology. What happened to them after the fact has no relevance on what Driscoll did to them. A mans guilt is not predicated on how his victims respond afterwards.
Again, I really appreciate your attitude of humility and sincerity and will continue to watch and support y’all.
he did apologize. it’s online but no one cares to read it i guess.
Thank you John for hosting Mark Driscoll. I remember Mark from Mars Hill church. Knew he went through some difficult times but never really wanted to know about them. We all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. You both helped me validate my positions. Thanks for the kind and challenging words. Blessings. Stay safe and keep up the good fight
Exactly..folks crave to point fingers and wallow in their personal experience of an event. This guy speaks biblically and with clarity. Past is gone.
Went through difficult times? Really! That piece of shit put so many people through hellish difficult times. Straight tyrant! Shame on wps for having him on trying to side with freedom loving Americans!
Amen brothers!
Excellent guest! John and fellas... keep up the great work! You guys and ladies inspire myself, and I'm sure AT LEAST hundreds of thousands around this truly awesome country. We'll get it back... Let's go Brandon!
"I thought I'd be farther than this by now." Me too brother, me too!
Powerful....
John, I really needed to hear this...
Thank you sir!!
Love these two men. Thanks for being you.
AWESOME STUFF brothers! Masculinity on earth was started by Adam. And I am here as a son of God to make sure it continues. Thank you for helping me do that by making me a better man. God bless you. Merry Christmas!! 🎄🙏🏼🇺🇸
Thank you for being willing to openly profess your faith.
Really excellent video. I got a kick out of the part people not being able to defend our country. This 66 year old man and a lot of my friends could kick ass if need be, and we are probably more prepared than most. I don’t trust most preachers as far as I can throw one, but I did enjoy this conversation. And John, you have open my eyes to a lot of things in the last few years, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Love Marc Driscoll and his beautiful wife Grace! Learned about him thru Marriage XO. Great talk, Thanks
Do more like this John. Have more poets and philosophers on. Your a warrior poet after all.
Thank you John for this. I found this very enlightening!
Thank you John for a great interview.
Great guest he added another facet to the diamond of Psalms 22. Thanks🙏👍
God showed me about my dad and why wasn't he there for me or my mom she was absent too, but what God spoke to me was Ephesians 6:12 they were dealing with things they didn't understand or know either, so who am I to blame them , it's made things easier for me.
This was so good! I got riled up in defense of the Lord and how He is viewed by many. I got good insight and conviction on letting go of my desire to “clear my name and set the record straight.” I laughed so hard in so many places. It was a roller coaster of emotion and learning. Thanks for doing this episode.
Before there was a lot of controversy between Mark Driscoll I was going to his church and have learned so much and got closer to God. Even though stuff happened and I am now no longer at his church I am so glad he is still out there preaching the word. Thanks for having Mark on with you and hope his message saves souls. God Bless!
I really liked your introduction that the movement is comprised of people with many different backgrounds and beliefs. This is a fight for humanity.
I love this Podcast real masculine men warrior poets discussing Christianity and the faith with boldness not fear 🙏🏻 The problem with our country is the lack of God in our society.
Long Live the Republic 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 God Bless America 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Brother...Mark Driscoll isn't being defamed. He was rightly disgraced and never repented. It's the repentance part that has dogged him.
Jesus wasn't murdered. Jesus came as a willing sacrifice for anyone to except him. Someone whos is murdered is a victim, Jesus is not a victim.
You ever read the Latin translation of the Bible and what they did to Jesus? Maybe you would change your mind.
Victor! Not a victim.
Danya
Actually Jesus was murdered. His physical body was slain by another man. His willingness to endure the torture, ridicule and pain that accompanied that final act was his sacrifice. However often the point of this act can be clouded by arguing semantics like this. His pain and death was the price paid for our salvation. His willingness to pay this price is why he is our savior. Our commitment to attempt to live in accordance with his teachings should be the thanks we give and how we honor that sacrifice.
@@grahamkinkead1079 he gave it up, no man took his life
Jesus was martyred, not murdered.
There's only one person to have ever walked the earth that didn't make it worse. Wow! If you can allow yourself to accept that, loving others becomes easier to do.
When are you going to get Michael Foster on here? His book "It's Good to be a Man" is absolutely phenomenal
I second this
Third this.
Fourth this!
Fourth this
Please keep up with these videos I love this kind of talking.
Mad respect for you and yours for posting this!
Awesome guest. Thanks for videos like this as well john
I'm 65 and I still don't think I'll ever get there. But I'm not giving up.
Surrender to freedom can happen in a moment...but that surrender takes years of humbling to get there.
I am so glad I found this video when I did.
It's been written, end the end there will be those who have ears but do not hear, will have eyes but will not see.
God bless all here.
Sorry John. Watched and listened to Mark Driscoll for too many years, cannot watch this now.
Awesome video fellas, thanks for taking the time to make it happen
HI John. Because I have been researching certain rifles, your content began showing up in my suggested videos. I'm glad I discovered it. You seem to be a legit guy so I subscribed to your channel. I could type for a while but, in the spirit of brevity, I'll get to the point-
When I saw you had Mark Driscoll as a guest, it caught my attention. I read your comments yesterday and watched most of the interview. Mark has always been a great speaker and I liked what he had to say. But please be aware, that has always been a gift of Mark's- What he lacked in character, he could make up for in charisma. I'm sure you can identify many characters in history with the same gifts.
Seeing Mark’s name again caused me to revisit the past. As you are probably aware, Christianity Today did a pretty exhaustive journalistic podcast series called "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill", exploring what happened to Mark's mega-church in Seattle. In a nutshell, charismatic leader finds many talented GenXers looking for a purpose in life and gives them a direction as long as they follow him and help him build his ministry without asking questions. If they do ask questions, they are quickly thrown overboard the ship, called enemies to the remaining, and replaced with new talent. Ultimately the remaining decide to question Mark. He wipes his muddy feet on the carpet and leaves... accepting no responsibility for the broken used and abused people who laid in his wake all while claiming HE is the real victim. THAT is the ultimate story of Mars Hill. Then he moves to Scottsdale and starts over. He did not have the guts to participate in the series and actually answer questions about the past. He simple told the people who still believe in him... (paraphrased) "They are all lying and they are out to get me". If you believe him, OK. That is your choice to believe the story, in spite of multiple witnesses and evidence to the contrary. But, then again, you have met him and most of us haven't. I would just caution you that we are all fallible. "There is many a slip betwixt the cup and the lip". And many a man has fallen prey to the genuine words of a narcissist with sociopathic tendencies. It is my opinion that Mr. Driscoll is not a "sheep-dog" as you and I fancy ourselves to be, but a wolf who came in through an open gate. But who am I to decide.
If this new assessment (this podcast) of Mark Driscoll is accurate, then maybe he repented privately and changed his ways. Sure, he could be a different man. However, the fact remains that he did not take responsibility for what he did at Mars Hill and repent publicly. As "public" as he was, he definitely had the platform to do that. He chose not to.
Regarding the commentary about his adoring family, every narcissist has those closet to him convinced he can do no wrong. It's classic manipulation they can be completely blind to. I'm not saying that is the case here, it's simply a scientific fact. And not being willing to listen to voices of wisdom from a "multitude of counselors" is more evidence of narcissism. His elders/leadership were most likely men he selected for that job. Maybe he didn';t think they would ever question him?
@@jamesbarnes7566 Agreed! The need for repentance publicly and privately in a scenario such as was the chaos of MarsHill is necessary.
Probably best not to just believe "journalism" in this day and age even an allegedly Christian journalism outlet. There are obviously multiple people who were there who took both sides. If the man is saying the right things to lead others to Christ who cares about his personal sin. God uses the imperfect. Most the figures in the Bible were people that had crazy flaws. Like Saul the father of the church who killed a persecuted the church before that. His sins are between him and God. Apologies are due to those he actually wronged, not the public who he did not commit any wrong against.
All one needs to do is listen to the words that have come out of this man's mouth when he preached at Mars Hill and it would be evident to them that he is a very disturbed, arrogant, self-absorbed, belligerent man who is artful at gaslighting. But I'll hand it to him, he's really good at reinventing himself. After all, he's been successful at fooling a whole new crop of followers.
@@darlenegriffith6186 Clear and to the point. I completely agree.
This was great!! So many good talking points
Classic abusive church leader. I was a member of one of his church plants through Acts 29 in Reno and the leaders there also displayed the same abusive behavior which destroyed me and tons of my friends and acquaintances.
I agree they may all be good teachers and/or preachers but that is no excuse to abuse people. People like him and them and the way they pastored are the reason people hate the church.
There is a podcast out called Behind the Bus which details the massive amount or destruction and the ripple effects of their careless ministries.
But, at the end of the day, I do still believe in forgiveness and reconciliation and hope the best for him.
I’m certainly extremely skeptical of Driscoll, but I’ll listen to this when I have time and further form my opinion.
I’m an early member of an A29 church & was shaken when Mark was removed. I didn’t want to watch this, but I believe that Mark will be with us in glory. Thanks for putting this out and for your comment confronting those of us that condemned him on one side of the story.
Love these videos!! John you have so many questions about American politics and culture. Would love to see you interview John Doyle of Heck Off Commie. You will find the conversation very satisfying!
So true
What a powerful, truthful and amazing eye opening podcast. WOW how strong this message is. So needed in today’s society.
How about somebody like Voddie Bauchum. That would be an epic guest
John, please have John Cooper of Skillet on next. He’s a solid Christian conservative dude with a huge following who’s right on board with ya. That’d be an incredibly awesome interview!
Hey John, love what you do!
I've yet to come to a conclusion on my thoughts on this. Only 24 minutes since posting when I started watching. I'll say that I'm a high school bible teacher and a seminarian who could not be accused of "bubble-wrapped" preaching by any stretch (ask my students or my boss who disagrees with me quite a lot). But the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses is what the Lord requires... There are far more than that in this case. By no means am I saying Mark is lost, or even that I dislike him; early in my faith, many of his books and sermons greatly affected my faith, however, God uses crooked sticks to draw straight lines. I don't think we can dismiss too many of the accusations. Was the podcast a hit piece? Absolutely. But an inaccurate hit piece? Potentially not.
I agree with you, John, and with Mark concerning the need for stronger men and the need to fight against the emasculation of the church and culture. However, Jesus was the most masculine man that there could be, and yet His actions and words weren't that of William Wallace II. Now, if he has repented and been examined by church leaders and elders and the congregation and found to be restored, praise the Lord! There is redemption in Christ's blood. Mark's sins are not as evil as my own (Jonathan Edwards Resolution 8 comes to mind) and yet Christ has saved me. But beware, sin is crouching at the door and its desire is for you.
I don't know him personally, and therefore I can't make any claims about him. I applaud you for having a discussion with someone that many won't. Continued prayer for Mark (and all church leaders) by the global church is in order. There is a great many fallen pastors recently. My wariness comes from my thinking that simply having aligned values (masculinity in Mark's case, conservatism in many media cases) doesn't necessitate alliance -- the church is the church and our associations should be well vetted. I am not accusing you or Mark of anything, because both of you have done great things and influenced me. I'm sure you approached this thoughtfully and prayerfully. And for me, that's enough. All that to say, be cautious, be loving, preach the Gospel. Jude 20-25 is apt. I think you're doing this (to my knowledge).
As in all media consumption, take what's good and throw out what isn't *using biblical discernment.* Thanks for all you do.
TL;DR I'm somewhere between the 1 star and 5 star review. Christ is faithful.
There is absolutely NOTHING masculine about pacifist gl0balist dodo birds who invite other tribes into their nation to devour everything and subjugate you, all because a ✡️ on a stick told you to.
The Bible makes it clear when a man is disqualified for ministry, but correct me if I’m wrong, it doesn’t seem to make clear when a man is restored to ministry. That’s something I struggle with in cases like Driscoll. Maybe you have better insight on that-I’m not a Bible scholar, so I may be missing where that is in the Bible. Clearly Jesus restores and reconciles people, but in regards to being an elder or teacher in the church I can’t find anything on when a man is once again qualified for ministry or to be an elder.
This is probably the best comment I’ve read on the internet. As someone who’s followed John for a long time and has been aware of Mark as well, I have a lot of questions. To narrow in on one point you brought up. Our culture has obviously rejected true masculinity, but I get worried when people in the Christian world equate God-honoring masculinity with “traditional masculinity,” aka, your William Wallace example. I haven’t read “Wild at Heart” since I was a kid and unregenerate, but if I remember correctly it espouses some “masculine” values that I think are just sinful tendencies cloaked in the label of biblical manhood. I see similar sentiments from people like Mark, and I think God calls us to something greater than being “sheepdog warrior guardian” men.
@@nateperry405 You can't be restored to ministry if you haven't repented. He fled and found a new platform.
Love pastor Mark. how he was able to build a mega church in the chaotic areas of Washington and Oregon is truly a God thing.
It's funny how desperate those areas became after they were able to destroy the churches God used Mark to build. It's almost like they turned their back on what God wanted for them so God respectfully left them to their own devices.
John, Best Podcast Ever! Jesus was an Airborne Ranger.
5 star Awesome video. One of my favorites.
Just a add to what I stated earlier. We attended Mars Hill and were very committed and enjoyed his teaching very much for a long time. Very gifted. The problem is that he wanted no elder team above him. The rise and fall of mars hill pod cast is not a one-sided hit job. We lived it and experienced it firsthand. A lot of hurt lives were left in the wake of the fall of mars hill.
I'm confused: was he the pastor? I know nothing of the story, but if he's the pastor, then no human being within that individual church has authority over him. I suppose if you're part of a larger church organization, there may be a chain of command above the pastors of individual churches, but within that individual church, no deacon, board member, or any other person/group of persons has authority over the pastor, so if that was the case, he was right not to subject himself under their authority because (again, if that's the case) they have no authority over him.
@@RealSeanithan that’s if you believe in a church where there is one person in charge of everyone. That is not biblical. A biblical church has multiple elders in charge of the teaching while everyone submits one to another.
@@RealSeanithan That's not Biblical theology. Giving one 'man' absolute authority is contrary to scripture. See Proverbs 11:14, 12:15, 15:22, 24:6. These are just a couple of the many references that can be found regarding this subject. I am only commenting on your statement, not what occurred with Mark Driscoll. I do not have enough insight on that subject to be authoritative. On a total side trip... this is like the Pope. The Catholics say, "He is infallible." No one can speak a word against in him. I think we all know that is completely bogus.
@@jamesbarnes7566 I completely agree with those scriptures (obviously, they're in the Bible, so they're unquestionably true), but I don't understand why you brought them up: they all talk about counselors, who are persons supporting the one in authority. I absolutely agree that a church should have elders or a board or whatever you like, but they don't have authority OVER the pastor. We do have scriptural evidence from Revelation chapters 2 and 3 that each individual church group had one individual over them, and the entirety of Paul's first letter to timothy is about how he, as an individual, is to run the church group that he's over, so yes, we have plenty of biblical evidence that each church group had one man with authority over it. Unless you're referring to the Church as a whole (or some larger division within), and you're saying that there are to be other men who are over those individual leaders (say there's a board or some such and this board is over, say, the state of Missouri, and they have authority over the pastors there) and they can call out the pastors under them for teaching unbiblical things or whatever. If that's what you're saying then I absolutely agree with you: we have direct biblical evidence of the 12 (11 if you don't like Matthias) being over the church and delegating power, and it only makes sense that there's more and more delegation the larger it gets. Basically, what I'm saying is, if Pastor Johnson is the pastor of a church in Richmond, IN, the board of that church has no direct biblical authority over him, but if his denomination has an authority structure over their individual churches, then the authority that those higher authority persons have is definitely biblical. Relating to the Pope, I've looked into the belief of the "infallibility of the Pope", and, without getting into it, it's not as bad a belief as I grew up thinking it was: as I learned about it, my opinion of it changed from it's being heresy to it's just being very silly. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my comment and providing me with discussion: I find that good-natured arguments with other believers is a fun way to strengthen my knowledge and understanding of scripture.
@@RealSeanithanThanks for that explanation on your thoughts. Here are some thoughts.
Churches within a denomination have internal oversight. Likewise, many non-denominational churches have a relationship with a larger church which provides support for challenging circumstances or when weighty questions need to be answered. In either of those situations, the pastor is not in a position of unlimited authority. He has submitted himself to those over him.
So we come to the non-denominational churches with no other church relationships. There is safety in having pastoral accountability outside the local church, but sometimes churches opt to not have that kind of structure. What then? Some form of internal, church-body accountability structure must be in place. Accountability is Biblical... on every level. That is where the board of elders or deacons comes in. These are men that have been measured. They have been "approved" by the pastor and governing body of the church to be placed in a postion of responsibility and authority. Like a pastor, they are leaders in the church and therefore held to a higher degree of accountibility amongst their peers and before the Lord.
If the structure of the church is not established with some level of accoutability for the pastor, then things are out of order. Absolute power absolutely corrupts. There must be some means of holding the pastor accountable if he does such things as have an affair, misappropriate church funds, promote wrong teaching for his own personal gain or pleasure, etc. Even in less obvious matters, oversight is necessary. IE: Clear misrepresentation of scripture where everyone but the pastor knows it. Even pastors can lose sight of the truth. It's the responsibility of the body of Christ to instruct one another in love... and concerning the pastor, using the proper authority structure to maintain the integrity of the church.
Some years ago, I good friend of mine said she has no responsibility for what happens to money she gives the church. She said it is someone else will be accountable for it's use. I disagreed. I said I would not regularly attend any church where they were unwilling to disclose how these tithes and offerings are used. As a Godly steward, it's part of my responsibility to ensure the money God has entrusted to me is being used for Kingdom purposes and not in frivolous or ungodly ways. Most churches understand the concept of good stewardship so they willingly disclose this information. Why? Accountability.
I am one of the few people who has followed Ptr. Mark since 2007. Literally months after I got saved, I couldn't find a church to belong to yet (even though I was in one at the time), and lo and behold, I was led to watch one of his sermons online. Been following him ever since, through the ups and downs of both mine and his. Ultimately, I was ecstatic when I found out he arrived in AZ, because my story of redemption was eerily similar to my last fall (the darkest of my darkest times). I saw God moving in his life, his family, and the explosion of his ministry. As a young Christian at the time, he was one of the few voices that solidified the pathway that I'm in today. Funny enough, in his growth and "success," he became the voice that's needed the most when the culture turned woke. He's one of the first pastors I heard that faced CRT head on, openly, while a lot of pastors grew silent to "not be hateful," or were under duress/in a hostage situation because they'll receive backlash if they actually spoke against the current culture (in its infancy at the time). So, it's actually a surprise to me that you, @JohnLovell, have been following him for a decade or so! And this makes me like you more. It's like......... a direct affirmation that I am walking in the right path, despite being alone (Yes, I'm a ronin). Thans for having this interview. Saw you also during Trinity Church's Real Men, which is exactly what our culture needs today. Again, no other pastor has that, let alone a series, to encourage and uplift men (yet).
He who sins is of the devil. Repent and trust Jesus Christ for real.
@@Romans6.1-2 Funny thing about your statement is, so long as Christians still live here on earth, they'll sin. The only time they'll actually stop sinning, is when they physically die. Repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior? Yes. Does that stop the effects of sin in a Christian's life? Nope. So to say that people who sin is of the devil, is truth half baked, which is still not true.
Hey Loyal, you sound like a person who has experienced Grace and Mercy. Thank you for your comment. It's encouraging in this sea of angst and hatred.
@@Romans6.1-2 like Loyal said, we ALL sin. Christians are no exception, and I do my best to correct those misconceptions whenever I come across them. If no one sinned...they literally wouldn't have a need for Jesus.
Christians are just more honest than basically anyone else about our weaknesses and failings, and that we recognize the need for a savior to rescue us from our own sins. (Real Christians that is.)
Not trying to be offensive here, but this is elementary level stuff my dude.
Great video mark thank you for the truth God Is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth amen thanks men great work
Awesome sharing time about Jesus 🙏🏽💪🏽✊🏽👍🏽👮🏽♂️
John, I love what you do. Thank you for this. And in Alabama....they wouldn't last a day.
Keep at it gents.
I used to listen to Driscoll, and my family also served as missionaries three times under a narcissist who later remarried and kicked aside his assistant who helped him be successful. We also saw firsthand how Acts 29 didn’t start churches but conformed existing churches to Calvinism. Beware of rock star charismatic well spoken leaders who lack compassion namely calvinists but also those under the Moses model style of leadership. If you want solid biblical teaching look to Chuck Smith who didn’t elevate himself but faithfully fed and equipped the flock with God’s word verse by verse chapter by chapter book by book.
Always liked mark. Good bröther
Dirty south for the win brothers.
This wolf pulled the wool over your eyes with his 1 star review deflection.
I didn’t get a notification for this video. I didn’t see it till your Merchant of Death video came out. Clearly you’re doing something they don’t like. Keep it up.
I didn’t know about Mark Till the podcast came out “exposing him”. It sure did expose him to me. They were talking about all the stuff happening behind the scenes but his sermons even during that podcast drew me to find more from him. Great speaker for christian men who made mistakes in his past.
Great stuff fellas!
I don’t know…something about this guy just feels off. I’m all about men owning our masculinity and not letting the world castrate us. I also agree that we are all sinners and all have done/said things in the past that we would like to not be judged (by our fellow man) for today. But something just doesn’t feel genuine about Driscoll even now.
😆 If you can write your name in the snow. Gotta remember that one 👍
I really enjoyed that . that was really great John!
Thanks for listening
Here are 10 immediate thoughts of problems that society in general could do a better job of noticing and correcting. I'm guilty of some of these.
1. The phrase "my truth" or "your truth".
2. The front facing camera. In the past we looked outward towards others. Now we are a selfie centered society. Look at your social media feeds.
3. Youthfulness. Not many people want to grow up and take responsibility.
4. People are unable to say "I don't know"
5. Echo chambers.
6. Learn to listen not just hear.
7. Idolizing people with a perceived higher social status.
8. Realizing life isn't about your personal happiness or what you can get. You'll be more fulfilled living a life of service to others and becoming sacrificial.
9. Not being too quick to judge.
10. Individual feelings have become greater than logic, reason, and Truth.
And a bonus just because... Foundational morals, values, and ethics come from a source. People should know where they come from and have reasons for holding that position.
Hi John, I mentioned you and the WPS in a Blue Alpha EDC belt review on my small channel, hope you don't mind. I appreciate all of your content, keep up the great work!
I am still attending a once was Marshill and now is a growing church in Washington State. Went through a lot of "stuff" when he resigned. Highly recommend that people listen to the "Rise and fall of Mars Hill". A more in depth of what really happened. Mark Driscoll had the change to come under Elder care. He chose to leave.
+1 listen to the "rise and fall of Mars hill".
The podcast by Christianity today is just a leftist hit job by woke Christians. Its not actually helpful in bringing about anything good.
The rise and fall of Mars hill is a podcast of slander and bitterness a decade old. Get over it, Christians forgive. He should’ve submitted to elder discipline, he didn’t, he left, and he’s talked about and acknowledged his fault plenty in interviews and videos about the situation.
@@marcuskoons6219 no, he fled and never came under right church discipline. He hasn't sought repentance or forgiveness. He closed up shop and opened up his grift elsewhere. I grew a lot under Driscoll and was a church planter in Acts 29 but he is disqualified from ministry until restoration takes place.
Love this John!
They wouldn’t be throwing sprinkled cupcakes, they would be attempting to welcome them with open arms. Lol
Jesus! The only hope!
Where is the Real Faith studio? Does John do a podcast or something? I would love to see more Faith based content from John. Even if its not under the WPS umbrella
I really like Mark Driscoll. However, Jefferson did not cut out pieces of the Bible he disagreed with. Check out the research of David Barton, 'The Jefferson Lies.' Also, the only Founding Father whoever claimed to be a deist was Ben Franklin in his autobiography. He said he was fifteeen years old when he became a deist but soon changed his mind.
Focus on what is right not what is easy
Awesome video.
We all need to be prepping for bad times and taking control of our own lives. I have intel up regularly on YT. Keep prepping guys 👍 🙏 ✝️
Christians are the only reason our eиeოies, who are fewer than us, láziér than us, and have lower (I)(Q) than us, are able to iиfeš† our иa†ions, trample us, ᆆack our children, špi† in our faces, and continue to live after. It turned the éuяoṗean people into pacifist, gl0ხalist, egalitarian, dodo birds.
Love it!
Gross - Driscoll is the last person I would want to learn about masculinity from. I was a pastor in Acts 29 during the time of his discipline and followed the proceedings through our internal network. He has been found disqualified from ministry. If a man is someone who runs away from godly discipline, takes money from his church, plagiarizes material and calls it his own then by all means lets learn. That was years ago some people shout. Yes and without repentance? He literally fled and started up a new church somewhere else. I say this as someone who learned a lot and grew a lot under the early days of Mars Hill and Acts 29 via teachings and podcast.
I just heard about Driscoll & dont know about his past. You were a pastor there too? Why did you leave too?
@@motivation4u I was a pastor in Acts 29 a church planting network he helped found and was a leader in.
Let's not forget how horribly he treated some of the local pastors of satellite locations when they weren't raising $5 million dollars fast enough or the unhealthy views they perpetrated on the husband and wife roles in marriage or the absolute horrendous insult he told the entire congregation that if he had known about what had happened to his wife, being victimized before he met her, that he would have never married her... I was a congregant of the Bellevue campus, I remember all of those things.
Great podcast. Listen to some of driscolls stuff. The thing that is more important is that you are willing to share your faith over and over
Listened to the interview then read a good many comments. The question is NOT, Did Mark Driscoll sin. The question is NOT how great was that sin. We ALL sin and come short! The question is how do any of us respond when confronted with that sin by God. Scripture is full of great men of God who failed miserably. I would mention only one here, King David. He committed adultery and murder. Psalm 51 was his response to God confronting him with it. God continued to use him. Having failed greatly in my own life I have come to understand that God's forgiveness is immediate but restoration is a process. I'm still in process.
AMAZING INTERVIEW!!! Thanks John!!!
Well shit…. I got excited for a second Lol whatever floats your boat John but I’ll pass on this one. Still love ya tho 👍😘 haha
This was great. I will subscribe to him.
WE LOVE YOU PASTOR MARK!
Great interview. Thank you for openly sharing your faith in Jesus Christ.
I'm playing with my gun right now while I watch you yay for Arizona on my Arizona yeehaw
paul.. guns should not be played with. Trained with.. maintained.. stored safely or carried in a holster.. yes.. but played with?? No..
Mark Driscoll has had a long history of impactful teaching and God has used him in many ways. Mark also had a spectacular fall from grace at Mars Hill. I would strongly recommend the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, it shines pretty good spotlight on the good and bad of Mark's ministry there. All of that said and known, I pray that Mark's ministry would continue to flourish and God would use him in mighty ways.
Meh hit piece at best. Folks get butthirt easily...even the enlightened saved by grace have ego and pride...mark included.
That podcast was a joke. Woke AF.
I truly wish you guys could sprinkle some magic dust on me to get me to be able to believe in a God. Although I walk with Christians and live a Christian life I just can not accept the supernatural. Wish I could, Yall are so darn happy.
30:00 amennnnnn
Good for a Catholic but what about the power of God, when He comes into your heart, through salvation? That's where it starts and no humam strength can help but God. We couldn't make it in our own. But if God is with him... Praise God.
God bless