Motorcycle Suspension tutorial: Sag and Preload (T7) 2/3
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- This is the 2nd video of my mini series about adjusting motorcycle suspensions!
This time we talk about SAG and PRELOAD, which are very important to adjust considering they are basically the baseline of how your suspension works.
Next (and last video) will be about rebound and compression adjustments, which are easier to understand but trickier to adjust cause there is no math or any type of certainty to help you. Lets see if I can do a good job to teach you anything :P
Again, special thanks to Bluemotor.pt for letting me convert half the store into a "studio" and to let me use their Yamaha T7 (or is it T700?) as my guinea pig :D
(I promise I left all the adjustments with the factory setting! ^^)
T7 Owners manual (the correct one)
www.manualslib.com/manual/192...
-Diogo Guerra
#preload #sag #suspensions
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Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
1:04 - Pre-Load explanation
2:58 - Static and Race Sag explanation
4:43 - How to measure Sag
7:55 - How to calculate the Sag
8:55 - Interpretation of the results
12:05 - Happy ending
ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE HUMOUR OF YOUR CHANNEL!!! 😂 I posted the link to this video on my TRF groups (U.K.), telling them: This is possibly the ‘friendliest’ video showing what to do I have watched! Your Delivery; Jokes; and Ever-So-Slightly-Incorrect-English are PERFECT, please do not change anything!!!! 😁
Your comment has not only been pinned to the top of the comment section, I will also be printed and hanged in my office (which is my living room).
Thank you! :D
I laughed so much that I need to adjust my race sag to compensate for the loss of my butt. I laughed it clean off. learned a lot from this short video and obviously appreciate your sense of humor. Well done.
Thank you very much for this awesome comment! I always try to put a little humor on my videos... ^^
This wasn’t too technical. In fact, it was perfect. Your video was the best explanation I’ve seen on this topic. Thank you. I look forward to the next one. I have a T7 as well so it’s perfect for me 😀
Thank you Johnny! I tried my best...and learned a few things myself when investigating the topic ^^
I just bought my t7 and thanks for this super clear explanation. keep it up, greetings from Paraguay.
GLad to know! my the bike serve you well ^^
Very well explained - clear, concise, not overwhelming and humorous!
I've read and researched suspensions (and adjusting my own on the WR250F) yet i found myself watching this video all the way to the end since all the important information (at least to my knowledge) is present and the presentation is great!
Great to hear you liked it! I am so afraid of making boring videos! :D
The WR250R...great bike! You can barely find them in Europe though...
Excellent Diogo! I think it was the first time i had the patience to see a full "SAG" saga measurement 'till the end👌!
Ahahah! Thank you man! Its a lot of work but its worth it :p
warning! - significant amount of math (if you 7 years old) :)
very informative and at the same time easy to digest tutorial, thanks a lot
Well, most people reject any amount of math so... just trying to be solidaire with their pain :P
Glad you enjoyed the video!
This is such an amazing garage knowledge series Diogo, not only for T7 owners but everyone in general, well done!! Keep it up, you're doing great!!
E que venham mais tambem!! 👍👍
Thank you Nelio! Your feedback is so important to me, you have no idea ^^
This was so much fun to watch! Thank you!
Thank you for watching and commenting! ^^
I just found your channel Diogo and really enjoy it. You understand how to make an amusing video without over reacting! Subscribed and clicked the bell icon 💪
Best feedback :D thanks man!
I hope to keep trying my best ^^
Excellent video! Very clear explanation! You’ve gained a follower!
Thats awesome! Welcome aboard and thanks for commenting! Please share ^^
Thanks for the clear and simple explanation! Very information
Thank you ^^
"Share, possibly with your worst enemy"...Ha Ha! Good vid, thanks!
This is very informative video and you have good sense of the humor.
Glad you enjoyed it! I appreciate your comment ^^
Olha o primeiro video que vejo sobre sag. Muito fixe! Acho que mesmo com a matematica toda até ficou simples! Keep up the good lord's work!
Saving the world, on video at a time :p
Excellent and clear video. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the comment =)
Bravo et merci ! Très intéressant 😉
Really good explanations!
Thanks for that
Glad it was helpful! My pleasure ^^
Great video, i ordered a rally edition this morning and i'll definitely come back to this video once i receive it.
Keep up the good work!
Ohhhh, new bike! Exciting exciting! I am sure you will be pleased ^^
What bike did you have before?
@@OFFroadOFFcourse I started on a Kawasaki z750 and i'm currently riding a Triumph Street Triple, i wish i could keep it but i have more use for a adv bike because of work.
I am wondering if i will need a stiffer spring because i am about 95kg and i will be riding with quite some camera gear in the panniers, ah well time will tell.
@@emuijderman if you feel difficulties with the T7, try a 250 or even a 600/650 single cilinder dual sport for a week or 2...just so you can get used to the off-road fast without scratching the t7 too much with needless scratches ;)
I just picked up my Rally today
@@johnmfjw go test it and share a video! ^^
Thank you so much. That was very well explained 👍
Thank you for commenting ^^
Welcome aboard!
Great video. Great job👍
Thank you for leaving feedback ;) glad you liked it
Great content! Keep going!
Happy rides, Bruno :D
Clear and smart
Perfectly explained!
Glad you think so! I am sure there is a lot more to learn about this topic, but this is a simplified way everyone can understand :D Thanks for the comment =)
Very nice tutorial... very good. Thanks
You are welcome! And thanks for the comment ^^
Ver y good. Thankiu from spain
"You need a friend to help" welp, I guess the factory settings are my settings, then...
You know, i was trying to make a joke about that during editing, but then i thought it would be too much :p
Great video, i’m thinking seriously of purchasing a T7 after years of racing KTM‘s That’s the first thing I do before taking delivery is having the suspension re-valved with heavier springs
Hey Peter!! Try to test the bike first! Dont miss the opportunity to learn/feel the difference between both springs!
Not only it will probably teach you something, it will also let you appreciate the investment a bit better ;)
Enjoy every step when upgrading a bike :D
Thank you❤️
The best T7 suspension videos on the Internet hands down. I’m about to replace my standard spring on the rear to a 95nm as I’m 198lbs with out riding gear on and I occasionally carry a passenger. I’m also going to add a spacer probably 5mm into the forks at the front to help adjustments and to stop the right spring making a pinging noise over rough ground Apparently from the tenere 700 forums this can be a common problem for heavier riders on the Yamaha. Thanks jon.
Oh, never heard of those noises on the spring! I will look into that...
With 198lbs+luggage you will probably feel a huge different now with the stiffer springs. Leave me some feedback after you tried it ;)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse just the rear spring getting changed and spacers in the front forks 5mm I think. I’ll keep you posted
@@OFFroadOFFcourse hi. I’ve installed the rear spring & set the correct sag, the bike feels great with that. The front forks are still making the knocking noise over bumpy ground & when I hold the front break & rock the bike I can hear the noise in the front right fork. I added a 5mm pre load washer into each fork & still the knocking continues, so I’ve now added the 12.5mm washers to each leg & I’m sad to say the fork still makes the noise over bumps and when rocking the bike. I’m not to sure where to turn now. Possibly an 8hr drive to rally raid uk to see if they can help. If anyone online can help I would much appreciate it
I have my T7 for a bit more then a week now, same colour as yours in the video :D. will have to look into the suspension like you suggest... I'm 95kg naked and 1.90 height without shoes or anything...
1400km, first service done, did a lot of hard off-road, the bike looks one year old already :p
thanks for the tips and will do like you say :D
(already have a heavier rear spring to match my weight but still a bit too lazy to install)
"1400km, first service done, did a lot of hard off-road, the bike looks one year old already :p"
I know the feeling! ahaha! I've been like that all my life!
But now, (thanks to John, from my videos), I've learned to respect a few "maintenance rules" that really make a difference... like never storing your bike all muddy.
I used to do that.. now I always pressure wash it, ride a few minutes to dry a bit, oil the chain and then (most times), I spray exposed mechanic parts with WD40 (like the hinges on the footpegs and side stand, some nut where I notice any sign of corrosion, etc)
It prevents innumerous problems and general decay along the years :D
Suspensão da T7 afinada! Ou pelo menos mexida! Obrigado Diogo
Ahah, boa Bruno! Se sentes que melhorou para ti, entao está "afinada" :D
Excellent info
good work!
Embora eu seja demasiado preguiçoso para alterar coisas dessas eheheheh
mas acredita que todos gostamos de saber o porquê das coisas...
Obrigada pela partilha
ABR
como te percebo... :P
Ás vezes nem é a preguiça de fazer, é o medo de ficar a saber que está mal! :D
Excelent info. Great job
Obrigado! temos de fazer aí um colab! Fazer um video sobre o vosso projecto e canal! (E a moto! deixa-me experimentar a tua 690!)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse quando quiseres, haja disponibilidade
@@ktmfatherandson vou cobrar isso ;)
Good stuff 👍 sagging preload are so overlooked by the majority of moto and MTB Riders.
Side note: I was thrown off with the guy wearing the face diaper then I had seen this is 3 years ago🙄🤢🤮
Fantastic work! Awesome channel, any thoughts on the new Tuareg? (have mine on order) :)
Hey there! Thanks for the awesome comment!
The new tuareg seems solid on paper, but i am yet to try one! A friend bought one and promised to let me use it for a few days so I can do the review.
I am anxious!
E pa, este gajo e mesmo simpatico e com bom humor! Brigadissimo!
Eu é que agradeço ^^
Que nada nunca mude, só para melhorar!
Amazing series thank you but I would like to ask when the 3rd video will arrive :) I dont have bike yet btw
If all goes well, it will be the next video (this Saturday!)
Thank you for watching :D
Thanks a lot
Really good training about the basics, it’s clear and easily understandable. I have just one question about the lower kit and preload. Does it change something about the numbers you talked about ? (10% and 30%). I presume not really but are we absolutely sure ?
Its a fair question! I believe it would apply just in the same way. However, consider that some people (usually enduro riders) don't even use the 10-30% "rule", they usually talk about a specific measure of centimeters or inches, for istance: "2cm static sag and 6cm race sag", which is more or less the same thing cause all enduro bikes have +/- the same total suspension travel.
The 10/30% rule is actually a way to expand what they do on the enduro/mx to all bikes in general, despite having much smaller/bigger suspension travels.
So yeah, even with a lowered bike, the 10-30% guide-line still applies (if its 11%-33% or something like that isn't a problem..unless you are trying to improve a lap time by 1sec or something :P)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse
Thanks for additional information but anyway, I will do measures by myself this weekend in order to appreciate numbers. In theory, the OEM lower kit for T7 shouldn’t change anything.
Well explained 💙💛🏁🤛🏼
Thanks! I learned a lot interesting details investigating for this video ^^
@@OFFroadOFFcourse ... and you shared it with the community, which is the most important part. I'm really looking forward for the next episode and the end of winter, so that I can start with the adjustments on my T7 💙💛🏁🤛🏼
yea man thanks
You made it! I mean, you managed to keep it entertaining. Great video... again :) How tall are you? You don't seem to manage flat foot on the ground with T7, so I wonder if I'd have the same (or worse).
i am 1.80m. I don't think I can flat foot it (not sure though...)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse Damn! ;) Well, thanks, now I have a perspective. Not the best perspective, haha :)
Hi thank you for your videos, keep it simple and keep your humor and good humor. you should very quickly have tens of thousands of subscribers .. I measure 1.70m for 70 kg so light and despite everything when I go off road hiking with my T 700 (luggage + tools + camping tent or 25 kg) from that I accelerate the pace unfortunately the suspensions do not follow as well in front as behind. I think YAMAHA neglected the quality of the original suspensions and that is unfortunate. I thought about the relevance of changing the fork and shock absorber springs or mounted an OHLINS fork kit and ditto for the rear. The investment is relatively expensive. have you driven a T 700 configured with Ohlins?
No, not yet :/
The Springs are supposed to be a "cheap" and effective solution, especially if the whole thing is handled by someone who know what they are doing and makes sure the new springs are tuned for your weight+luggage.
The Ohlins solutions should be good as well, but how much would that cost? (Im really asking, I dont know)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse hi the cost of a set of front and rear springs about 250 €.
an Ohlins fork kit around € 1,200 + Ohlins rear shock absorber € 1,080 or € 2,280. If we follow the indications of the spring sellers for the off road, it is preferable to fit linear springs for a pilot's weight of 70kg + 25 kg of luggage hardness of the front springs 6.3 N / mm (original 5.8 N / mm ) and rear spring 85 N / mm. (original 70 N / min)
It is necessary to provide a higher margin because the weight of the luggage can vary. This is only my personal opinion.
great video! thanks for the hard work!
one question: since the static sag is independent of rider/gear weight, and if it falls outside the 10% range, does that mean the manufacturer did not do a good job of choosing spring rate for their own motorcycle? why wouldnt static sag always be exactly perfect out of the box?
Wow that is a very good question! Honestly i dont have an aswer im sure of. I guess they always have to balance a compromise between the bike feeling performant but not too stiff, tall but not too intimidating for the short ones, quality but not expensive, etc etc.. but even so i dont see a clear reason for them to mess up the static sag.
Either way, the static sag importance is way less important than the rider/race sag :)
Thanks for watching!
Because there is a mistake in that theory. First how rider 100kg can squeeze spring by 20% if motorcycle 200kg squeeze it by 10 %? Springs are linear so it's impossible. Focus rather on sag itself. So motorcycle with rider shoud squeeze 30 percent of fully extended forks/shocks ( so 30 percent of travel). If you want to calculate it more perfectly search for instruction how to calculate sag and include static friction into it. There will be L1 L2 and L3 parameters
perhaps you're right, but regardless of how to properly calculate sag, my question was about why OEM static sag wouldn't be exactly what it should be out of the factory floor@@krzysztofelektryczny8206
Are you calling me overweight :) Another great video
no no, I am calling me a half-person :P
5:43 - I get it... good one! But it is good advice :)
thanks for watching AND for commenting :D
Most people don't notice those small details ^^
Hello good afternoon, if I have upper defenses, lower defenses, caballete central, cubrecarter sw motech, portabultos givi, solo con eso más mis 85 kg con equipo, tengo 4,5 cm de sag estático, en el amortiguador y 3 cm en la horquilla, crees que al tener tantos accesorios, incrementa el peso y por eso me sale tanto sag? Cuando me subo encima me da 6,3 cm horquilla y 8 cm amortiguador, debería cambiar resortes verdad? Cuantos newton me aconsejas poner? Un saludo Toni desde Alicante España, me encantan tus videos y con la claridad que lo explica
Da experiência que tenho de motas ( estrada ) e de BTT acho que a saber a importância das suspensões e mexer nelas deve ser uns 5 %, os restantes 95 não sabem e nunca afinaram a suspensão. Mesmo quem sabe é relativo, com uma mota nova queixei-me que a mota a alta velocidade sentia a frente a ondular.... solução do gênio do engenheiro : apertou ao máximo a compressão e o rebound. Bati numa tampa de sarjeta mais levantada numa segunda a fundo e foi a mota para um lado e eu para outro, por isso muito cuidado com quem metem a mexer na suspensão da mota. As bicicletas de BTT de suspensão total são uma excelente aprendizagem, posso dizer que aprendi a sentir as diferenças no sag e compressão/rebound nas biclas de BTT. Nas motas é mais arriscado andar a fazer experiências.
Obrigado pelo comment! Acho que essas estatísticas estão perto da verdade!...95% não sabe mexer, nem mexe nem tenta....mas compra na mesma suspensões ajustáveis e faz-lhes upgrades :P
Quanto a ser perigoso mexer nas suspensões, bom, eu sou da terra... na terra nao ha o risco de ires a 180-280km/h e descobrires a meio de uma curva que aquilo não vai bem afinado.
Quem sabe andar na terra anda 500m e percebe logo que aquilo não tá bom...quem não sabe não passa dos 50km/h, por isso a coisa corre bem :P
...em 99.99% dos casos
@@OFFroadOFFcourse , ahah, sim, a terra é mais fofinha, eu não quero sentir o alcatrão outra vez. Fora de tópico, já trocaste a 660 pela 700 ou não ? Vale a pena o upgrade?
@@Mike.4639 ainda nao troquei. Opa, eu quase so faço terra mesmo, e o meu orçamento é baixo, por isso para ja prefiro manter a 660, a ja tem os riscos todos q pode ter, ja nao desvaloriza, e sempre tem uns ~20kg a menos.
Adoro a T7, mas nao tou apaixonado ao ponto de dizer "é isto!".
É uma excelente moto de aventura a um preço acessivel, mas acho q hoje em dia sou mais gajo de dual-sports (mais leves).
...sou é pobre :p
@@OFFroadOFFcourse , ahahah, pobres somos todos aqui no Condado, uns mais que outros. Epa, tenho um test drive para breve para ver se realmente aquilo encaixa comigo e se vale o dinheiro. Do gênero só andei numa gs850 e achei um matacão e parecido uma gs1200 que achei soberba de condução, pena a caixa que nem numa 125 os japoneses metiam. A 660r os preços são tentadores e é como dizes, de riscada não passa.
Dave Moss please note: This is how you explain it in plain English.
PS: Was 999 likes, now it's 1k...Yess!
You spoil me with praises xD thank you for watching and commenting ^^
@@OFFroadOFFcourse just giving credit where it's due, man. Will those 10%, 30% sag ratios etc work just as well on DR650 and XSR700?
@@louvega8414 thanks man :D
The 10-30% are a well known sag ratio, its not specific for the T7 at all. For specific bikes and specific uses (especially competition) it could be a little different, but for us "common joes", the 10-30 are "close enough".
Boas
Boa explicação, já à algum tempo que andava a tentar perceber isto.
Agora sem ser ohlins, o que à de bom pra trocar a suspensao original? Cumps
Vivas! De certeza que não te safavas só com uma troca de molas? gastavas uns 500eur e ficavas com a moto "nova".
Para trocar tudo vais gastar uns 1500-2500eur, e se calhar não vale a pena (porque só um gajo que ande mesmo de faca nos dentes é que vai conseguir justificar (ou nem isso) esse investimento) :P
PS: Se ainda assim quiseres investir, considera o amortecedor da Tractive. Na frente não tenho sugestão, não estou informado :)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse Boas
Sim não irei andar tão agressivamente, mas quero andar no mato mais que muitos pseudo aventureiros cheios de malas xD
Sou mecânico mas não sei tudo, dai agradecer a boa explicação, e estou sempre disposto a aprender.
Já mudei de ideias em relação à suspensão completa, e sim só as molas. Aconselha alguma marca acessível e boa?
Cumprimentos
Could you suggest a compression and rebound setting for road and off-road?
My next video will be precisely about that.
Its hard to give you a comp/rebound setting that works for you, your riding style and riding environment, cause I am not you =)
Adjustments are very personal.
But this afternoon I will be running some tests again and I will share with you the settings I am using (i have to count the clicks again :P)
Ok, so I don't own a T7, the one i've been using and experimenting on is almost with stock/factory settings, and for me it has been working really well for most part.
I am 75Kg (+10kg equipment) and ride conservatively, meaning that I only go fast when there are no significant obstacles on the track. Also, I have enough experience/expertise to work my way around most problems without forcing the bike's suspensions to do it for me... so I usually get away with soft and cushy suspensions.
This being said, I am running factory settings with 2 little modifications:
Harder compression on rear shock (2 clicks)
Harder compression on the forks (2 clicks)
You are Jackie Chan! 👍
Hi there,
I always wanted to own this bike bike I’m not the ideal size. My height is 5.3 and I weigh 60. I’ve been searching about lowering seat/links and a little bit of fiddling with the suspension.
With all of these options is it possible for me to ride this?
Many thanks 🙏
Hey Kesler! 5'3 doesn't put you out of the game! I know a few shorter riders who rock (one of them has a KTM 990R, which is way taller than the T7).
Lowering the bike isn't that hard...you can probably lower between 2 to 4cm cheaply. You just need longer shock links (easy to make or cheap to buy) and the shock can simply be lowered on the triple-clamps.
...but you know this already I guess?
How is your overall experience with off-road motorcycles?
Cheers and good luck!
@@OFFroadOFFcourse never been but I’ve been riding mtb’s hope it helps. Cheers
@@OFFroadOFFcourse great to hear that I’ll be able to ride this T7. Thanks
Why is static sag important?
well, from my understanding the Static Sag is the ultimate measure that tells you if your spring is correct or not.
You can pick a wrong spring and by adjusting the pre-load get to a correct Race sag (or Rider Sag)...but if afterwords you go check the Static Sag and it i all wrong, then you know the spring is wrong.
This article here explains it quite well: motool.co/blogs/motool/why-static-sag-is-so-important
@@OFFroadOFFcourse Thanks mate!
Spanis subtitules pleaseee
Gracias
I will do it Monday! I promise! :)
Ciao ottimo ma manca la traduzione in italiano mi aiuterebbe a capire meglio
Very well done, very interesting video with very useful measurements. Keep up the great job.
Done :D
Good entertaining video but no such thing as race sag. Free and rider are the conventional terms
A lot of people refer to it as race sag. Maybe its not the term from the book, but so many other names and terms we use worldwide and they dont belong to any dictionary or manual :p
Hello, can you activate the translation in Arabic?
Done! Thank you for commenting!
Too many commercials brother
Yeah you're not Fortnine, maybe not trying to be him or to mimic his channel.
I'm not sure if I know what you are trying to say.
I draw huge inspiration from him, from top-gear, from c90adventures...well, from everyone I enjoy watching. Obviously I am not nearly as good as any of them.... but step by step I feel I'm kinda creating my own style that works for me =)
I have so much to learn and improve anyway...
@@OFFroadOFFcourse You already have your style, very simple and easy to understanding, funny as well :) Great job!
These calculations are bad