Good video, I thought this was going to be typical western bad japoneses good. Some games I like to compare are Jet Set Radio and Mark Ecko Getting Up. This games have different genre but both have the same theme off graffiti artist fighting corruption in the low city. One is a up beat fun arcade game while the other is a dirty dramatic narrative.
You put into words something that’s hard to verbalize - it’s worth mentioning that a lot of western indie devs are starting to understand this and doing a better job at keeping games responsive lately
I like your writing style and how in the videos I've seen, you draw attention to niche parts of game design that can be easily overlooked and delve into how all of these subtle things can affect the player A well done video 🐔👍
Pristine. Such a gem of a video, very well put. Extremely happy to have found your channel through the Tekken series. Might replay Vanquish later tonight.
The West, since the 3D era and the turn of the millenium, has been quite focused on integrating cinematic elements into games, making the cinematic aspects an actual appeal of the games. A negative example would be a David Cage game or walking simulators. A positive example would be a NaughtyDog or Rockstar game.
Quite the interesting topic with not the most obvious examples for comparison, also didn't expect the cosmic horror pivot in the end. In this context I'm curious if the difference between Western and Japanese approaches to RPGs fall into your theory of seeming physical/more detailed versus feeling physical/more gamey, in your opinion, or if it's a different thing
I'm not a huge RPG person, but that's one aspect. That they both came from D&D is interesting, even more so that the Japanese emphasised systemising a story through growth, where as the west wants your story to come from the systems and light scaffolding of a narrative. It's the opposite case for action games. This is a passer-by's perspective though. I'm not too confident in it.
I didn't know nothin about the creators of Vanquish besides that Platinum Games made it and they made Bayonetta. I bought the game shortly after its launch, loved it, let a coworker try it 2 years later, he wasn't as enthralled but still liked it. Definitely not a guy who goes towards Japanese games, just sorta played basic things like GTA, CoD, etc.I wish I could recall what else I let him borrow to remember his preferences. But I always remember Vanquish because every few days I saw him we would talk about his progress.
We desperately need a fusion of both I say, the world where the lunacy of western experimental games like deus ex, thief, or even rts or city builders, get the more systematic arcade approach of japanese ones. I think honestly we are getting there slowly.
ive always wondered why Japanese games are so over the top when compared to other countries European and western games can often times resemble each other but you can instantly tell what's Japanese
It's hard to really explain. But it is mostly in sheer responsiveness, usually. Along with modelling being a little happier to stylise, even when realistic.
I have a theory. Not based on anything nor is factually correct, just a random train of thought. I believe that Japanese games value time, while Western games value scale. Japanese people don't have a whole lot of time to play on any given day, so the time they do have, they want it to be more impactful. Japanese games have something they want to share. They want to give you a certain and precise experience on something and leave it at that. Like a carefully crafted small dessert. Western games on the other hand want to pull you in with scale. Collectibles here and there, loot to be grabbed, places to be fought over, or just a whole wide world to wander about. Like a large buffet. Not to say one is better than the other. Somedays you want something precise, other days a buffet is on your mind. You may enjoy cruising around or causing chaos in Chicago circa 2014 one moment. The next, you might want to be fighting your buddy over Avalon dam, bringing an end to a series of twists and turns and the feeling that comes with it. This theory falls apart at its seams when you bring in other games that defeat this notion of Japanese = Faster experiences. Western = Bigger game. I'm gonna stop here. I went on a longer tangent that pulled in Yakuza, Saint Row, Furi, Armoured Core, Deus Ex, Final Fantasy, Manifold Garden, and Boku no natsuyasumi. I began to lose the forest for the trees here and ended up running in circles with a small headache. Sorry for the length of this.
because you (supposedly, I dont believe it) cant escape tekken, I'm drawing this comparison between street fighter and tekken. way back in smash bros 4, when ryu was put into the game az DLC, I sed tu myself "oh cool, street fighter, now I can see what the big deal is!" I didnt, az they programmed him in a way that, if you dont know the arcade stik moovments, you can press the B button to use his special moves, however, they are underpowered versions uv the stik input verzhunz, so he just felt, off, and bad. yeerz later when kazuya waz added tu smash bros ultimate, my first thought seeing hiz trailer waz waz "who? oh, ganon's dead. oh, he's fighting himself, these trailers don't do that, iz this simbolizm? wait, wu-did-ee-just- do? woah. oh. oooooh. ooooo. I think I'm gunna like This guy." because just from a glance, HE WAZ CHEATING! he wuz uzing WAY more attacks than your standard character, and he could slide right under bullets! so, I tried him out. I can't go back to limitid opshunz. but anyway, what I realized, and what put me off uv ryu, waz the design mentalitee. when you move the stik correctly with kazuya, 3 things happen. he lowers himself to the ground, he skoochiz forwurd a bit, and he flashez pale for a second. that, iz a *distinctly* amerikan animashun quality, and it's why I couldn't figure it out with ryu, *because I could'nt /-@|
@basssgane Kojima wishes his games were western, nowadays. But DS is immersive in its systematic simulation. Rather than doing things for you with helpful AI. Or simulating needless interactables like opening random drawers or turning on taps. Shenmue would do better to disagree with my video.
Surely Gears of War would be a much better comparison? This really doesn’t add up both in genre and era …. In fact it’s pretty shite all round this, especially that edge lord intro.
![ACE Combat 3[JP] Part 1, The Happy Ending. | Gitai](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qsTQL5g0slg/mqdefault.jpg)
The fuck does any of that have to do with race? Otherwise fair comparisons.
Yo why tf would you leave us with such an unsettling set of thoughts for an ending? XD
Not complaining though. It is fascinating
Good video, I thought this was going to be typical western bad japoneses good. Some games I like to compare are Jet Set Radio and Mark Ecko Getting Up. This games have different genre but both have the same theme off graffiti artist fighting corruption in the low city.
One is a up beat fun arcade game while the other is a dirty dramatic narrative.
You put into words something that’s hard to verbalize - it’s worth mentioning that a lot of western indie devs are starting to understand this and doing a better job at keeping games responsive lately
I like your writing style and how in the videos I've seen, you draw attention to niche parts of game design that can be easily overlooked and delve into how all of these subtle things can affect the player
A well done video 🐔👍
Pristine. Such a gem of a video, very well put. Extremely happy to have found your channel through the Tekken series. Might replay Vanquish later tonight.
Hey, thanks dude.
The West, since the 3D era and the turn of the millenium, has been quite focused on integrating cinematic elements into games, making the cinematic aspects an actual appeal of the games. A negative example would be a David Cage game or walking simulators. A positive example would be a NaughtyDog or Rockstar game.
Quite the interesting topic with not the most obvious examples for comparison, also didn't expect the cosmic horror pivot in the end. In this context I'm curious if the difference between Western and Japanese approaches to RPGs fall into your theory of seeming physical/more detailed versus feeling physical/more gamey, in your opinion, or if it's a different thing
I'm not a huge RPG person, but that's one aspect.
That they both came from D&D is interesting, even more so that the Japanese emphasised systemising a story through growth, where as the west wants your story to come from the systems and light scaffolding of a narrative.
It's the opposite case for action games.
This is a passer-by's perspective though. I'm not too confident in it.
I didn't know nothin about the creators of Vanquish besides that Platinum Games made it and they made Bayonetta. I bought the game shortly after its launch, loved it, let a coworker try it 2 years later, he wasn't as enthralled but still liked it. Definitely not a guy who goes towards Japanese games, just sorta played basic things like GTA, CoD, etc.I wish I could recall what else I let him borrow to remember his preferences. But I always remember Vanquish because every few days I saw him we would talk about his progress.
I already liked your videos but I clicked on this one seeing your avatar in it. You have a winning formula now
Neat video, expected more negative tone but this was suprasingly laid back, good work
We desperately need a fusion of both I say, the world where the lunacy of western experimental games like deus ex, thief, or even rts or city builders, get the more systematic arcade approach of japanese ones. I think honestly we are getting there slowly.
Anything that has people remember vanquish is a win in my book
ive always wondered why Japanese games are so over the top when compared to other countries European and western games can often times resemble each other but you can instantly tell what's Japanese
It's hard to really explain. But it is mostly in sheer responsiveness, usually. Along with modelling being a little happier to stylise, even when realistic.
I have a theory. Not based on anything nor is factually correct, just a random train of thought. I believe that Japanese games value time, while Western games value scale. Japanese people don't have a whole lot of time to play on any given day, so the time they do have, they want it to be more impactful.
Japanese games have something they want to share. They want to give you a certain and precise experience on something and leave it at that. Like a carefully crafted small dessert.
Western games on the other hand want to pull you in with scale. Collectibles here and there, loot to be grabbed, places to be fought over, or just a whole wide world to wander about. Like a large buffet.
Not to say one is better than the other. Somedays you want something precise, other days a buffet is on your mind. You may enjoy cruising around or causing chaos in Chicago circa 2014 one moment. The next, you might want to be fighting your buddy over Avalon dam, bringing an end to a series of twists and turns and the feeling that comes with it.
This theory falls apart at its seams when you bring in other games that defeat this notion of Japanese = Faster experiences. Western = Bigger game.
I'm gonna stop here. I went on a longer tangent that pulled in Yakuza, Saint Row, Furi, Armoured Core, Deus Ex, Final Fantasy, Manifold Garden, and Boku no natsuyasumi. I began to lose the forest for the trees here and ended up running in circles with a small headache. Sorry for the length of this.
That feels like an East V West of "what does the marketing department want?"
please do a video essay on ace combat 5 and 7
11:20 - what game is that?
Zone of the Enders 1. Did a video on it.
@@GizouGitai thanks. I think I should play through that.
because you (supposedly, I dont believe it) cant escape tekken, I'm drawing this comparison between street fighter and tekken.
way back in smash bros 4, when ryu was put into the game az DLC, I sed tu myself "oh cool, street fighter, now I can see what the big deal is!" I didnt, az they programmed him in a way that, if you dont know the arcade stik moovments, you can press the B button to use his special moves, however, they are underpowered versions uv the stik input verzhunz, so he just felt, off, and bad.
yeerz later when kazuya waz added tu smash bros ultimate, my first thought seeing hiz trailer waz waz "who? oh, ganon's dead. oh, he's fighting himself, these trailers don't do that, iz this simbolizm? wait, wu-did-ee-just- do? woah. oh. oooooh. ooooo. I think I'm gunna like This guy." because just from a glance, HE WAZ CHEATING! he wuz uzing WAY more attacks than your standard character, and he could slide right under bullets! so, I tried him out. I can't go back to limitid opshunz. but anyway, what I realized, and what put me off uv ryu, waz the design mentalitee.
when you move the stik correctly with kazuya, 3 things happen. he lowers himself to the ground, he skoochiz forwurd a bit, and he flashez pale for a second. that, iz a *distinctly* amerikan animashun quality, and it's why I couldn't figure it out with ryu, *because I could'nt /-@|
They're all japanese games. It's probably an unfamiliarity you were feeling.
@@GizouGitai yeah- I was gunna say, the irony iz they're all japanese, I just didn't feel like editing the comment.
@basssgane Kojima wishes his games were western, nowadays.
But DS is immersive in its systematic simulation. Rather than doing things for you with helpful AI. Or simulating needless interactables like opening random drawers or turning on taps.
Shenmue would do better to disagree with my video.
Who dat girl at thumbnail?
Surely Gears of War would be a much better comparison? This really doesn’t add up both in genre and era …. In fact it’s pretty shite all round this, especially that edge lord intro.
This is bait.
@@GizouGitai Patrick Baitman
Good video. But please don't say the term "Character Action". Its about as cringe as "Boomer Shooter".
See I just call those wolfendooms.
When you get famous I supported you! Get the results you deserve = "promosm"!