My GGGrandfather, a buddy of Brigham Young, friend of Wilford Woodruff, visitor to Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail, was given a Plural Wife after he arrived in the Salt Lake Valley. He was 52, she was 16. Growing up in The Church I knew NONE OF THIS. My Dad wrote a book of genealogy on him and he never mentioned ANY of this too me. I was 6 decades into The Church and found out about this. 52 & 16!!! They then produced 6 babies, 2 years apart, after marriage. Hell of a Plan....Hell of a Church.
The original reason the higher ups in leadership wanted polygamy was to pass on their genes, which they considered to be from royal European blood lines.
So gross. All of it. That quote from Heber admonishing the missionaries to stop picking all the pretty women for themselves and bringing home all the ugly women as leftovers for the rest of them to choose from…wow. That is something else. So sad. I feel sad for Mary Smithies. You're the best Nemo.
@@user-bd5md5cm2j What am I naive about? And what a weird thing to say... Sounds like you’ve been reading some Visions of Glory or something like that 😊… I hope you won’t have to watch my life. It’s pretty boring. Other than being mean to my friends in elementary school and yelling at my kids from time to time I think I have a pretty clear conscience though, so watch away if you’d like. I really hope I don’t have to watch 55 year old Heber raping young girls and telling them it’s sanctioned by god.
@@user-bd5md5cm2j What am I naive about? And what a weird, gross thing to say. You want to watch my life? You want to watch Heber’s life? I’m definitely not interested in watching your life or Heber’s life. Sounds like you’ve been reading some Visions of Glory or something like that. I hope you don’t have to watch my life. It’s pretty boring. But other than being mean to my friends in elementary school and yelling at my kids from time to time I think I have a pretty clear conscience. I definitely don’t want to watch old man Heber ra**ing young girls and manipulating them to believe it’s sanctioned by god.
Hello from Boise, Idaho! Please do more videos where you travel to other locations! It’s very interesting and because I love Great Britain, my ancestry is there, so is my heart!❤
I am so tired of the apologetics around “everyone was marrying young back then. It was common and not weird.” It is still effing weird. Were young girls marrying old men all the time? The old men put in charge of their salvation? It’s disgusting.
Right!? What young woman wants to marry someone really old!? Huge difference between choosing that (I know quite a few people who have married guys who are 20 years older than them) vs being forced. Not only forced...but being one of many other women. So heartbreaking and GROSS.
What's wrong with a 19 year old Mary Smithies getting married? Seems to me 19 year olds can get married today without parental consent. There's no need to conflate this situation with Joseph Smith marrying 15ish year old Fanny Alger. Also, Franklin Roosevelt's father when he was born was 55 I believe his mother was 28 years old at the time, so a similar age gap between Mary and Heber (albeit 9 years difference). It wasn't uncommon at all as mothers dying in childbirth was very common and men would remarry younger women that would take care of their children. Death was more common place and marriages were more practical, so age was less of a limiting factor at the time.
Bizarre. All of that. Yes, I enjoy you taking trips outside the studio especially to show us notable places in the UK relevant to the history of the church!
And the only wife that H.C. Kimball truly loved was Vilate, giving her everything she needed for a comfortable life. He let all the others fend for themselves in poverty.
I’m an ex-Mormon and a descendent of Heber C. Kimball. I’m a sixth generation grandchild; my mom was a Kimball, and very disappointed that I left the church. The story you recounted about how Heber prophesied that baby Mary would grow up reminded me of something. Apparently, he and Brigham young had a very strained relationship. Heber liked to prophesy and make a big show about his spirituality and Brigham Young and some of the apostles poked fun at him, and that was the source of their estrangement.
I should mention that I got that story from Tom Kimball, who is no longer with us. I called Tom specifically to ask him if he knew why Brigham Young and Heber were not on good terms. He said that his dad told him about how Heber was pretty flamboyant about his spiritual predictions, and that bugged Brigham Young.
I was so unaware of polygamy that Phebe, the only wife portrayed in “Mountain of the Lord”, was one of 10 wives married to Wilford Woodruff. 🤢 The church missed that opportunity to come clean about polygamy.
Thank you for your videos! I remember about 10 years ago, my next door neighbor spoke in sacrament meeting after he returned from a mission and just got married. He expounded on how wonderful his mission was, and on and on. Then he said, "guys, obey the commandments and go on a mission. When you come home you get this!" He turned and showed off his new wife. Of course she was popular and drop dead gorgeous. I remember thinking "wow, the rest of us must be chopped liver". The worldly attitude on looks is still alive and well in the church. (I once even had a bishop call me into his office and basically order me to "not be so picky and get married, I hear babies crying for you". I said the guys want super models to show off, not a companion. I grew up in the church and was always reminded that I didn't measure up. Unsurprisingly, I've never married.)
@@woodystube1000 Brigham Young ordered a young suitor of one of his future wives castrated. The residents of SLC would see him for years wandering around the city, not in his right mind.
I spent 3 three years in Utah and 2 years on a mission I remember that is common for people to name drop famous ancestors and how proud or thankful they were for their relationship with famous Mormon ancestor. I was batized at age 8 with my mom. So I was never really too impressed someones genealogy. I have been out of the church for 6 years now. I am just glad that I never had the misfortune to be related to these early mormon monsters.
I'm a descendant of Heber. 😔 On behalf of myself and other like minded descendants, may I offer apologies to the entire planet for the damage that Heber caused to humanity!
I'm sorry to you for the shame it may have brought you your family... But you shouldn't feel responsible for what you're ancestors did. We don't get to choose them after all. My ancestors did some stuff too.
@@defythegrid9577 let the man who sinned repent, neither me nor, the OP had anything to do with it, so no apologies are needed, and nothing to repent of
@@Freerangemormon I find it interesting that the 99 sheep "needed no repentance" and the one lost needed repentance and was lifted on Christ's shoulders. Humility is a virtue.
Your videos are exceptional. Look forward to them every week! My grandparents were tour guides at the Heber C. Kimball home (Nauvoo) in the late 1960's. During my visits to them I never heard one word of Heber's polygamy. How the stories change over the years! Cheers!
I really enjoy these short form videos, Nemo; and the footage outside the studio is an especially nice touch. I like the reality this adds to your already incisive videos.
In the US and Australia mothers day is always celebrated on the second Sunday in May. The UK date changes every year because it follows the date of Lent, which also changes due to the lunar calendar. Mother's Day in Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and Belize always takes place on May 10, regardless of which day of the week it happens to fall on.
He supposedly met Satan during his mission in England as well. I can’t help but wonder if that explains why he became so manipulative and disgusting, or if he already was and Satan found a perfect ally and made a pact with him.
I am truly amazed every single day at your tenacity, Nemo. Seriously, the lengths you have gone to not only research and study and learn for yourself, but the eloquent and thoughtful way you present what you find. I have been researching my own family history and actually taking the time to read the stories of my ancestors and I am truly heartbroken at how many of them were literally human trafficked to Utah under false pretenses- often leaving behind family and being disinherited, and cut off from family all because they were lost and desperate for a better life only to sacrifice even more. for a lie.
Hi Nemo. Please continue your work to provide this type of honest content. It would be great to have an episode which provides a summary of the age gap of prophets and all their wives with sources in one place. So many of do not have a full grasp of how great the differences were in ages and how that was a product of JS’s created inner culture in the church which all started with him as the originator. Thanks for all your research and analysis. I like how you are clear on what your research objectively may infer and what it does not infer but observations as appropriate.
It wasn't a creation of Joseph Smith. Brigham is the man who instigated polygamy. You'll notice that after Joseph is dead, and they no longer have to hide it from Joseph, the taking of multiple wives ramps up like crazy. All while still in Nauvoo for a few more years. Seeing it plotted out on a timberline is eye opening
I am angry. When I was active, I couldn't get married, because I was taught that I should only marry in the church, but male missionaries were taking all local Mormon girls home. The leaders were closing their eyes on that. Meanwhile, if I or any other local men tried to flirt to sister-missionaries or any foreigners, we were severely punished. Rules should be for everyone, regardless of their gender or nationality.
Mormon: "I know Joseph Smith & Brigham Young are Prophets of God." Me: "Would you trust your teen daughters with them? Mormon: "..... eerrrrr. ummm. well no, but I've had a spiritual confirmation."
Thanks Nemo! I left the church on your recommendation. Couldn’t be happier. No God, no friends, no worries. Now I’m riding this life into the sunset free as a bumblebee. #nemoismyprophet
Great video Nemo. Please do a short video soon on kimball giving this blessing and calling dibs on her. This is so horrible a giant spotlight needs to be on this.
My thoughts are that these parents were put at risk in their own society because of Joseph Smiths prolific lying. This young woman fell victim to a predatory old man because of Joseph Smiths lies. That is what this is all about.
@@BadA_patriot Joseph Smith demonstrated psychopathic tendencies; was a prolific fantasist, story teller, manipulator. Whether it was his treasure seeking ruse, pretending to see God or manipulating very young girls and women and indeed men into sexual relationships - he was skilled in the arts of the con man and fraud. BY was evil in the way only religious fundamentalists with too much power are evil but that's another chapter.
McKay is on my naughty list, for not responding to my comments asking how he gets such a clean shave. Undeniably pretty good work, tho. Love you history teachers. 💞 May you all get more popular!
They may well be people that no one's never met or knows, but they are people who others today hold up as paragons of godliness, as evidence of god's hand in the organisation of the Mormon church and who form the very foundations of the church's foundational claims. In this light, the facts that they acted outside of the norms and accepted morals of society both then and today, demostrated predatory behavior and exercised unrighteous authority over vulnerable others speaks a lot to the truth behind the mormon church.
Missed catching it on time today because our Daylight Savings Time started and I guess British Summer Time hasn't I'm in Mountain Time Zone so MDT is UTC (GMT) -6 now.
There's ugly women? I thought they were all daughters of God? So they aren't marrying out of love? Is it just on appearance? That's weird, that's not what they say on the pulpit. As a priesthood holder, I'm discussed. I receive revelation frequently, but they can't?.... keep the truth coming Nemo.
So creepy! I remember when I connected the dots between him having mentioned his ancestor Helen Marr Kimball, and one of the 14 year old girls that Joseph Smith married
Mormons, NO RESTORATION IS NEEDED. Because Jesus already has established His Church. MATTHEW 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it..." JUDE 3 "Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints..." Jesus already has established His Church and built it on a rock so the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Also, the faith was ONCE and for all already delivered to the saints. No mention of any Mormon restoration in the past, present, or future.
Despite the 666 inch Obelisk erected within the stone circle at Joseph Smith’s birthplace, Mormons still don’t comprehend that Joseph Smith mangled Christianity with Freemasonry with Occult mysticism. “We have the true Masonry. The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon, and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct, but we have the real thing. - HEBER C. KIMBALL AND FAMILY: THE NAUVOO YEARS, STANLEY B. KIMBALL, P.458
As far as that last quote goes, Ive looked into the source and it is highly questionable. Its earliest appearance seems to come from the New York Tribune, May 15 1860, and has no indication as to who heard him say it. So not only is the source not primary, nor seconday, but tertiary, it also comes from newspapers who already had strong biases against the church. Here is a primary source from Kimball about the same topic: "I wish more of our young men would take to themselves wives of the daughters of Zion, and not wait for us old men to take them all" Deseret News November 7, 1855 Hope this helps!
Even the quote from deseret news makes my stomach turn. It’s hilarious when Mormons try to defend their disgusting pedophilic adulterous racist history and their defense of it is still horrible but it goes over their head because of how much cult indoctrination they’ve had
Average marrying age in Victorian Gr Britain was 19-21 for females, 21-25 for males. Would have been similar in urban + rural US except in a few very backward subcultures. Polygamy happens when uneducated religionists take the Bible literally (or, rather, the parts they feel like honoring) plus value the Old Testament over the New Testament. (And of course when social restraints on horny old men are loosed.) But what I want to know is, How did sexually loose pioneer Mormon society morph into oh-so-prudish 20th century LDS culture? Would someone explain this?
Sex back then was still taboo and not talked about or open, women like in the Middle East essentially covered up head to toe almost, as the modern polygamist Mormons still do. It was also even more anxiety around it all and secrecy because it’s been illegal and attacked by everyone who kept driving them out of town for the sexually predatory behavior of the Mormons etc. It was not ever sexually ‘loose’ like it is today as in widely talked about and seen in society. It’s just that the cult was ran by sexual predators who were tyrants also. As the sexual predatory nature of the church lead to too many problems over time they eventually stopped it and the tyrants who run the church are still sexual tyrants they just aren’t running around openly being pedos and adulterers like before in brighams time
Also the sexual culture back then was secretive back then and it’s secretive and covered up today. Most every member is deceived about 90% of their churches real uncomfortable history truths
Aunt Lucy (Lucy Walker Smith Kimball) should have liked to have waited until she was 19 to wed an older man in whom she had no interest. By the time she was 18, she had been married twice. Also, it is not clear that the young lady in question (Mary Smithees) was not acting under her own volition. Bravo to Heber for at least letting her become an adult before taking her to wife. And that's the absolutely best thing I can say about it: at least she was 19 years old. Lucy gave Heber nine children. Mary only five. But then, he did have 65 children all told from his 43 wives, which means the remaining 51 children came from 41 women. Even 5 children was way above average. He had over 300 grandchildren, one of whom became president of the church. And this is just one polygamist family out of many.
@@carolyearsley 5 children was still above average. 51÷(17-2)=3.4 So after we remove the 14 children Lucy and Maria had, the remaining 15 childbearing wives averaged 3.4 children each.
Orson F Whitney, whose mother was basically tricked into marrying Joseph Smith as a plural wife in Nauvoo by her father Heber C Kimball at the age of 14, wrote the book about his grandfather Heber C Kimball. The copy of the book you can now by from LDS book stores has been edited. I’ve read the original.
@NEMOTHEMORMON Thanks, Nemo. I have visited the place several times in the past year and have not seen anything. Then again, John Taylor doesn't get a mention much these days.
@@kerryholyoak5720yes I read what you said and it is quite almost exactly the same except without the words ugly and pretty. The leaders of the church get all the say in who marrys who, as they give and take and treat women like cattle and bargaining chips to control the men who serve in the hierarchy
I know that Eve was not British, but I like to think of her as the FIRST Mormon because it's the same message... Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. But I also like to think that she repented. Not sure what to make of this story? Except, it reminds me of the movie When the Wind Blows.
Turns out they all got a middle initial in their name that helps them polish each others ego and virtue signal to the rest of us how righteous and noble they are, cause they are all related in some way… trying to keep the power and money in the family…
Where do you find all the videos of prophet and stuff speaking that you criticize? I can’t seem to find them anywhere. Not saying you fabricated it, however I’d like to watch the nonsense for myself 😂
This one of Cook is from the 3 apostle meeting at Hyde Park Chapel. It’s the only time church lawyers have come for me, and I hade to take the originals down. So I share the best bits in my videos, alongside commentary, so it stays up.
The more i learn about heber c kimball and Brigham Young, the less redeemable they become. Not only were the not prophets or imperfect, they werent even good humans.
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24:23-24 "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..." Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in? A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
A large part of Joseph Smith’s Old Testament fan fiction , was that he based Mormonism on 6:34 the co-opting of the Israeli narrative. The Latter Day Saints were to inherit the mantle of The Abrahamic God Thus the Mother of Israel reference was presented to 6:34 the parents, a claim she would not die in this life time, as Jesus would return to Earth and she would fulfill prophecy by becoming a Mother of Israel. A blatant manipulation statement to coerce these poor people to offer up their daughter . Needless to say that did not pass…-hope that was a reasonable answer o your question.
Wow… just wow! Talk about horrible? Was this man allowed access to this little girl during her childhood too? This is twisted. If she married him at only 19… and had 5 children with him… when he was in his 50s… Did he have children with other women and other wives before he married her?
First child sex traffickers .. sickening.
I don't think they were the first but yes sex traffickers for sure
They may not have invented sex trafficking but they sure did refine it.
Regarding your question, yes, the field trips outside your studio is pretty cool, keep it going
Good to know!
My GGGrandfather, a buddy of Brigham Young, friend of Wilford Woodruff, visitor to Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail, was given a Plural Wife after he arrived in the Salt Lake Valley. He was 52, she was 16. Growing up in The Church I knew NONE OF THIS. My Dad wrote a book of genealogy on him and he never mentioned ANY of this too me. I was 6 decades into The Church and found out about this. 52 & 16!!! They then produced 6 babies, 2 years apart, after marriage. Hell of a Plan....Hell of a Church.
I think hell of a church says it all. Thank you.
No kidding. The more I learn. After seventy years. The more I realize that this cult is simply evil.
@@briankelly8848 I would not say Evil now…2024 is a different Church. BUT when men ran it thinking of their carnal desires…yes, that was evil.
The original reason the higher ups in leadership wanted polygamy was to pass on their genes, which they considered to be from royal European blood lines.
💔😢😡
So gross. All of it. That quote from Heber admonishing the missionaries to stop picking all the pretty women for themselves and bringing home all the ugly women as leftovers for the rest of them to choose from…wow. That is something else. So sad. I feel sad for Mary Smithies. You're the best Nemo.
What ever... you are so naive . The great thing is, you'll get to see it all. And everyone will get to see your life.
@@user-bd5md5cm2j What am I naive about? And what a weird thing to say... Sounds like you’ve been reading some Visions of Glory or something like that 😊… I hope you won’t have to watch my life. It’s pretty boring. Other than being mean to my friends in elementary school and yelling at my kids from time to time I think I have a pretty clear conscience though, so watch away if you’d like. I really hope I don’t have to watch 55 year old Heber raping young girls and telling them it’s sanctioned by god.
@@user-bd5md5cm2j What am I naive about? And what a weird, gross thing to say. You want to watch my life? You want to watch Heber’s life? I’m definitely not interested in watching your life or Heber’s life. Sounds like you’ve been reading some Visions of Glory or something like that. I hope you don’t have to watch my life. It’s pretty boring. But other than being mean to my friends in elementary school and yelling at my kids from time to time I think I have a pretty clear conscience. I definitely don’t want to watch old man Heber ra**ing young girls and manipulating them to believe it’s sanctioned by god.
Now you've heard, "The rest of the story". Every Mormon story is like hearing only the scrubbed, tip of the iceberg.
Hello from Boise, Idaho! Please do more videos where you travel to other locations! It’s very interesting and because I love Great Britain, my ancestry is there, so is my heart!❤
More to come!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Yay! I’m excited!
Yes, I do like these short videos with a mini field trip
Excellent!
I am so tired of the apologetics around “everyone was marrying young back then. It was common and not weird.” It is still effing weird. Were young girls marrying old men all the time? The old men put in charge of their salvation? It’s disgusting.
So agree from my heart.
Right!? What young woman wants to marry someone really old!? Huge difference between choosing that (I know quite a few people who have married guys who are 20 years older than them) vs being forced. Not only forced...but being one of many other women. So heartbreaking and GROSS.
They also weren’t marrying 4 of them at once. None of it was normal or common practice unless you were perverted, in a cult, or an extremist.
It was not US census said woman were 24 and men were 26 when they were married. Not at 14 like many of Joe Smiths bride's.
What's wrong with a 19 year old Mary Smithies getting married? Seems to me 19 year olds can get married today without parental consent. There's no need to conflate this situation with Joseph Smith marrying 15ish year old Fanny Alger.
Also, Franklin Roosevelt's father when he was born was 55 I believe his mother was 28 years old at the time, so a similar age gap between Mary and Heber (albeit 9 years difference). It wasn't uncommon at all as mothers dying in childbirth was very common and men would remarry younger women that would take care of their children. Death was more common place and marriages were more practical, so age was less of a limiting factor at the time.
Bizarre. All of that.
Yes, I enjoy you taking trips outside the studio especially to show us notable places in the UK relevant to the history of the church!
Bizarre is a great word for it!
And the only wife that H.C. Kimball truly loved was Vilate, giving her everything she needed for a comfortable life. He let all the others fend for themselves in poverty.
Hmm. Food for thought...
Hmm. If you know much about Heber, you'd know that's crap
I’m an ex-Mormon and a descendent of Heber C. Kimball. I’m a sixth generation grandchild; my mom was a Kimball, and very disappointed that I left the church. The story you recounted about how Heber prophesied that baby Mary would grow up reminded me of something. Apparently, he and Brigham young had a very strained relationship. Heber liked to prophesy and make a big show about his spirituality and Brigham Young and some of the apostles poked fun at him, and that was the source of their estrangement.
I should mention that I got that story from Tom Kimball, who is no longer with us. I called Tom specifically to ask him if he knew why Brigham Young and Heber were not on good terms. He said that his dad told him about how Heber was pretty flamboyant about his spiritual predictions, and that bugged Brigham Young.
Should I be impressed that Heber prophesied Mary would make it to womanhood?
I don't know what her life expectancy would have been back then.
Don't piss off "do no wrong" Brigham! Surprised he survived it.
@@moonman239 I may be a descendent but I think it’s gross just like everybody else does or should.
💔😢😡
I was so unaware of polygamy that Phebe, the only wife portrayed in “Mountain of the Lord”, was one of 10 wives married to Wilford Woodruff. 🤢
The church missed that opportunity to come clean about polygamy.
Thank you for your videos! I remember about 10 years ago, my next door neighbor spoke in sacrament meeting after he returned from a mission and just got married. He expounded on how wonderful his mission was, and on and on. Then he said, "guys, obey the commandments and go on a mission. When you come home you get this!" He turned and showed off his new wife. Of course she was popular and drop dead gorgeous. I remember thinking "wow, the rest of us must be chopped liver". The worldly attitude on looks is still alive and well in the church. (I once even had a bishop call me into his office and basically order me to "not be so picky and get married, I hear babies crying for you". I said the guys want super models to show off, not a companion. I grew up in the church and was always reminded that I didn't measure up. Unsurprisingly, I've never married.)
Yes I felt the same way, like I'm not lovable or attractive. It's such a toxic place
It is disgusting and so sad that families and young women were manipulated, all in the name of eternal salvation. Thank you for sharing her story!
You must be a feminist cause u don't seem to include men, because feminists dehumanize them...
Thank you Nemo for telling her story! More like these definitely need to brought into the limelight. They need some kind of justice.
What I think it’s just about the creepiest thing I’ve ever heard about the old perverts of the Mormon hierarchy.
If you think that’s the creepiest thing they did, keep studying.
@@woodystube1000 Brigham Young ordered a young suitor of one of his future wives castrated. The residents of SLC would see him for years wandering around the city, not in his right mind.
Ugh!! This is infuriating! I wish my TBM husband would watch this. I wonder how he would respond.
I try and make things accessible for TBMs, hopefully he would respond well
I spent 3 three years in Utah and 2 years on a mission I remember that is common for people to name drop famous ancestors and how proud or thankful they were for their relationship with famous Mormon ancestor. I was batized at age 8 with my mom. So I was never really too impressed someones genealogy. I have been out of the church for 6 years now. I am just glad that I never had the misfortune to be related to these early mormon monsters.
Yes, I enjoyed the field trip, it was fun to see the church. Also, old guy marrying a baby he blessed 19 years ago = yuck.
I'm a descendant of Heber. 😔 On behalf of myself and other like minded descendants, may I offer apologies to the entire planet for the damage that Heber caused to humanity!
I'm sorry to you for the shame it may have brought you your family... But you shouldn't feel responsible for what you're ancestors did. We don't get to choose them after all. My ancestors did some stuff too.
As I am also a descendent, I apologize for nothing, as your owed nothing.
Lol repentance is one of the first principles of the gospel.
@@defythegrid9577 let the man who sinned repent, neither me nor, the OP had anything to do with it, so no apologies are needed, and nothing to repent of
@@Freerangemormon I find it interesting that the 99 sheep "needed no repentance" and the one lost needed repentance and was lifted on Christ's shoulders. Humility is a virtue.
Your videos are exceptional. Look forward to them every week! My grandparents were tour guides at the Heber C. Kimball home (Nauvoo) in the late 1960's. During my visits to them I never heard one word of Heber's polygamy. How the stories change over the years! Cheers!
I really enjoy these short form videos, Nemo; and the footage outside the studio is an especially nice touch. I like the reality this adds to your already incisive videos.
Jesus you gave me a heart attack when you said happy mother's day! In the US it's on May 12th!
Hahaha! My apologies!
Strange. I'm in Australia and Mother's Day is on May 12th here. Not sure why we haven't followed the British tradition. 😀
In the US and Australia mothers day is always celebrated on the second Sunday in May.
The UK date changes every year because it follows the date of Lent, which also changes due to the lunar calendar.
Mother's Day in Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and Belize always takes place on May 10, regardless of which day of the week it happens to fall on.
In Sweden it's on the last Sunday of May. This was so that more flowers would have grown by then to make bouquets from. 💐
He supposedly met Satan during his mission in England as well. I can’t help but wonder if that explains why he became so manipulative and disgusting, or if he already was and Satan found a perfect ally and made a pact with him.
I like this format also. Thanks
Glad you enjoy it!
Like always, our LDS always give talks about patting themselves on the back.
I am truly amazed every single day at your tenacity, Nemo. Seriously, the lengths you have gone to not only research and study and learn for yourself, but the eloquent and thoughtful way you present what you find. I have been researching my own family history and actually taking the time to read the stories of my ancestors and I am truly heartbroken at how many of them were literally human trafficked to Utah under false pretenses- often leaving behind family and being disinherited, and cut off from family all because they were lost and desperate for a better life only to sacrifice even more. for a lie.
🙏🏻 yes this sick cult needs to stop the lies which are ongoing to this day
Such a creep. Those prophecies are so convenient.
Thank you for your hard work Nemo!
Yes they are!
Hi Nemo. Please continue your work to provide this type of honest content. It would be great to have an episode which provides a summary of the age gap of prophets and all their wives with sources in one place. So many of do not have a full grasp of how great the differences were in ages and how that was a product of JS’s created inner culture in the church which all started with him as the originator. Thanks for all your research and analysis. I like how you are clear on what your research objectively may infer and what it does not infer but observations as appropriate.
It wasn't a creation of Joseph Smith. Brigham is the man who instigated polygamy. You'll notice that after Joseph is dead, and they no longer have to hide it from Joseph, the taking of multiple wives ramps up like crazy. All while still in Nauvoo for a few more years. Seeing it plotted out on a timberline is eye opening
I am angry. When I was active, I couldn't get married, because I was taught that I should only marry in the church, but male missionaries were taking all local Mormon girls home. The leaders were closing their eyes on that. Meanwhile, if I or any other local men tried to flirt to sister-missionaries or any foreigners, we were severely punished. Rules should be for everyone, regardless of their gender or nationality.
Keep up the great work, Nemo!
Will do, thanks for the support!
Oh my. Oh dear. Wonders never cease. 🤦🏼♀️
Disgusting legacy.
💔😢😡
My mind is blown, once again by bizarre behavior in Mormon history.
Just weird right?!?
Nauseating amount of mental abuse ‼️
I love this presentation. This is why I watch you, Nemo. Joyfully, John
Mormon: "I know Joseph Smith & Brigham Young are Prophets of God."
Me: "Would you trust your teen daughters with them?
Mormon: "..... eerrrrr. ummm. well no, but I've had a spiritual confirmation."
Great content, thank you!
My pleasure!
Thanks Nemo! I left the church on your recommendation. Couldn’t be happier. No God, no friends, no worries. Now I’m riding this life
into the sunset free as a bumblebee.
#nemoismyprophet
Great video Nemo. Please do a short video soon on kimball giving this blessing and calling dibs on her. This is so horrible a giant spotlight needs to be on this.
I would love to see more stuff about the journal of discourses bro! Especially since you’re in uk where much of it was produced I believe
Love! I want more like this. Yes. Donations coming soon to you, Nemo. I love your work.
Thank you very much, glad you liked it!
Yes please keep giving us these videos
That’s very unsettling.
Great show and research Nemo. keep up the good work!
Keep em coming Nemo!!!
I’m sorry to say it was my 5th great grandfather who introduced Heber C. and Brigham to Mormonism. He also baptized Heber.
Same for me. We are probably related:) blood runs deep back then
No doubt! This is on my father’s side; Gifford is the family name. Is that the info you have? @@dianemelling5446
My thoughts are that these parents were put at risk in their own society because of Joseph Smiths prolific lying.
This young woman fell victim to a predatory old man because of Joseph Smiths lies.
That is what this is all about.
It was Brigham Young, not Joseph, that introduced the abomination (Joseph's word) of polygamy.
@@Kristy_not_Kristine that is manifestly untrue. I will not discuss with history revisionists. Life is too short.
Brigham was the liar. Not Joseph. You’ll know one day.
@@BadA_patriot Joseph Smith demonstrated psychopathic tendencies; was a prolific fantasist, story teller, manipulator. Whether it was his treasure seeking ruse, pretending to see God or manipulating very young girls and women and indeed men into sexual relationships - he was skilled in the arts of the con man and fraud.
BY was evil in the way only religious fundamentalists with too much power are evil but that's another chapter.
@@Kristy_not_Kristine No, you are totally wrong. Polygamy started with Joseph Smith. Simply with Young polygamy was openly practiced.
Double-listen when I heard McKay's voice
His voice over was so good!
McKay is on my naughty list, for not responding to my comments asking how he gets such a clean shave. Undeniably pretty good work, tho. Love you history teachers. 💞 May you all get more popular!
The fact of whoever reads and doesn’t call out the nastiness. Creeps.
They may well be people that no one's never met or knows, but they are people who others today hold up as paragons of godliness, as evidence of god's hand in the organisation of the Mormon church and who form the very foundations of the church's foundational claims. In this light, the facts that they acted outside of the norms and accepted morals of society both then and today, demostrated predatory behavior and exercised unrighteous authority over vulnerable others speaks a lot to the truth behind the mormon church.
Missed catching it on time today because our Daylight Savings Time started and I guess British Summer Time hasn't I'm in Mountain Time Zone so MDT is UTC (GMT) -6 now.
BST hasn't started yet, that'll be the last Sunday of March
Thanks for the content.
02:49
😂 the way you held that book cracked me up
Wow!! Thanks for making the connections- twisted mormon history once again.
No worries!
I just liked and subscribed. Thanks for bringing out such great content.
Just unbelievable!
Fucking hell. There's nothing that TSCC touches that isn't left dirty.
There's ugly women? I thought they were all daughters of God? So they aren't marrying out of love? Is it just on appearance? That's weird, that's not what they say on the pulpit. As a priesthood holder, I'm discussed. I receive revelation frequently, but they can't?.... keep the truth coming Nemo.
Will do!
So creepy! I remember when I connected the dots between him having mentioned his ancestor Helen Marr Kimball, and one of the 14 year old girls that Joseph Smith married
Emma was Joseph's only wife. Don't believe the Brighamite lies
@@Kristy_not_Kristine the evidence of Joseph’s polygamy is overwhelming how are you saying is all made up
the manipulation of teenagers is disgusting, it probably still happens unfortunately
Sickening! That's what I think
That is utterly sickening.
I hope you're hearing about the multi-generational cronyism. That is what stymies this church.
Great point!
Mormons, NO RESTORATION IS NEEDED.
Because Jesus already has established His Church.
MATTHEW 16:18
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it..."
JUDE 3
"Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints..."
Jesus already has established His Church and built it on a rock so the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
Also, the faith was ONCE and for all already delivered to the saints.
No mention of any Mormon restoration in the past, present, or future.
Despite the 666 inch Obelisk erected within the stone circle at Joseph Smith’s birthplace, Mormons still don’t comprehend that Joseph Smith mangled Christianity with Freemasonry with Occult mysticism. “We have the true Masonry. The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon, and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct, but we have the real thing.
- HEBER C. KIMBALL AND FAMILY: THE NAUVOO YEARS, STANLEY B. KIMBALL, P.458
As far as that last quote goes, Ive looked into the source and it is highly questionable. Its earliest appearance seems to come from the New York Tribune, May 15 1860, and has no indication as to who heard him say it. So not only is the source not primary, nor seconday, but tertiary, it also comes from newspapers who already had strong biases against the church.
Here is a primary source from Kimball about the same topic:
"I wish more of our young men would take to themselves wives of the daughters of Zion, and not wait for us old men to take them all"
Deseret News November 7, 1855
Hope this helps!
Of course The Deseret News would never serve as the propaganda power of Mormonism 😂
Even the quote from deseret news makes my stomach turn. It’s hilarious when Mormons try to defend their disgusting pedophilic adulterous racist history and their defense of it is still horrible but it goes over their head because of how much cult indoctrination they’ve had
D I S G U S T I N G !!!!
Thank you ✅😂
I wounder If his affairs are in the book. this is in reguards to the comments about 1 minute into the video?
Very troubling..sick
Thanks!
No problem! Thanks for your support!
Yes love it Nemo.
Cheers!
Thank you
My pleasure, cheers to you too!
Average marrying age in Victorian Gr Britain was 19-21 for females, 21-25 for males. Would have been similar in urban + rural US except in a few very backward subcultures. Polygamy happens when uneducated religionists take the Bible literally (or, rather, the parts they feel like honoring) plus value the Old Testament over the New Testament. (And of course when social restraints on horny old men are loosed.) But what I want to know is, How did sexually loose pioneer Mormon society morph into oh-so-prudish 20th century LDS culture? Would someone explain this?
Sex back then was still taboo and not talked about or open, women like in the Middle East essentially covered up head to toe almost, as the modern polygamist Mormons still do. It was also even more anxiety around it all and secrecy because it’s been illegal and attacked by everyone who kept driving them out of town for the sexually predatory behavior of the Mormons etc. It was not ever sexually ‘loose’ like it is today as in widely talked about and seen in society. It’s just that the cult was ran by sexual predators who were tyrants also. As the sexual predatory nature of the church lead to too many problems over time they eventually stopped it and the tyrants who run the church are still sexual tyrants they just aren’t running around openly being pedos and adulterers like before in brighams time
Also the sexual culture back then was secretive back then and it’s secretive and covered up today. Most every member is deceived about 90% of their churches real uncomfortable history truths
Aunt Lucy (Lucy Walker Smith Kimball) should have liked to have waited until she was 19 to wed an older man in whom she had no interest. By the time she was 18, she had been married twice.
Also, it is not clear that the young lady in question (Mary Smithees) was not acting under her own volition. Bravo to Heber for at least letting her become an adult before taking her to wife.
And that's the absolutely best thing I can say about it: at least she was 19 years old.
Lucy gave Heber nine children. Mary only five. But then, he did have 65 children all told from his 43 wives, which means the remaining 51 children came from 41 women. Even 5 children was way above average.
He had over 300 grandchildren, one of whom became president of the church.
And this is just one polygamist family out of many.
According to records, 17 of the women had all the children.
@@carolyearsley 5 children was still above average. 51÷(17-2)=3.4 So after we remove the 14 children Lucy and Maria had, the remaining 15 childbearing wives averaged 3.4 children each.
I like longer vids.
Good to know, you'll have plenty of those in future too!
Nemo, is there any part of the LDS faith that you still believe in?
Thnak you
Orson F Whitney, whose mother was basically tricked into marrying Joseph Smith as a plural wife in Nauvoo by her father Heber C Kimball at the age of 14, wrote the book about his grandfather Heber C Kimball. The copy of the book you can now by from LDS book stores has been edited. I’ve read the original.
Is there a moment to John Taylor, former LDS in Milnthorpe Cumbria, his birthplace.
Nope, not that I can find!
@NEMOTHEMORMON Thanks, Nemo. I have visited the place several times in the past year and have not seen anything. Then again, John Taylor doesn't get a mention much these days.
Loooooooved it!
Could imagine the TikTok trend to this relationship 😂
Is the statement not taking the pretty women a statement in the red Heber C Kimball book ?
Nope, New York Times, reference is in the description
@@NEMOTHEMORMON an origin of the NYT quote might be in Journal of Discourses 1:207
@@kerryholyoak5720yes I read what you said and it is quite almost exactly the same except without the words ugly and pretty. The leaders of the church get all the say in who marrys who, as they give and take and treat women like cattle and bargaining chips to control the men who serve in the hierarchy
I know that Eve was not British, but I like to think of her as the FIRST Mormon because it's the same message...
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
But I also like to think that she repented. Not sure what to make of this story? Except, it reminds me of the movie When the Wind Blows.
Turns out they all got a middle initial in their name that helps them polish each others ego and virtue signal to the rest of us how righteous and noble they are, cause they are all related in some way… trying to keep the power and money in the family…
Creepy AF. That's my thought.
Yes..the grooming started in infancy...what a devilish sick thing to do...mormons be proud.
Not...😢😢
Where do you find all the videos of prophet and stuff speaking that you criticize?
I can’t seem to find them anywhere. Not saying you fabricated it, however I’d like to watch the nonsense for myself 😂
This one of Cook is from the 3 apostle meeting at Hyde Park Chapel. It’s the only time church lawyers have come for me, and I hade to take the originals down. So I share the best bits in my videos, alongside commentary, so it stays up.
Gross! The Kingston polygamists in salt lake still do this…
The more i learn about heber c kimball and Brigham Young, the less redeemable they become. Not only were the not prophets or imperfect, they werent even good humans.
I do like your shorter videos.
Thanks!
Elder Cook kind of stepped in it by calling attention to the existence of that book. Ughh
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24:23-24
"Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..."
Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in?
A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
What is a Mother of Israel?
A large part of Joseph Smith’s Old Testament fan fiction , was that he based Mormonism on 6:34 the co-opting of the Israeli narrative. The Latter Day Saints were to inherit the mantle of The Abrahamic God Thus the Mother of Israel reference was presented to 6:34 the parents, a claim she would not die in this life time, as Jesus would return to Earth and she would fulfill prophecy by becoming a Mother of Israel. A blatant manipulation statement to coerce these poor people to offer up their daughter . Needless to say that did not pass…-hope that was a reasonable answer o your question.
McKay!!!
there's a theory the Joseph was 30 and Mary was 14,
I think we good
Wow… just wow! Talk about horrible? Was this man allowed access to this little girl during her childhood too? This is twisted. If she married him at only 19… and had 5 children with him… when he was in his 50s… Did he have children with other women and other wives before he married her?
Cringe.
Yep.
Cringey 😢
How touching 🙄
It’s almost as if church leaders view themselves as separate from the laws of decency
#TeamJacob