I cannot defend Joseph Smith or many aspects of LDS theology, but when so many Mormons (that I know personally) exemplify what a Christian should be -- in the name of Jesus Christ -- there is something going on there that defies explanation and doctrines.
Being nice doesn’t mean you’re saved. Some of the kinder Muslims I met were great folks - not saved. I’ve met kind non Christians, not saved. Jesus said’ “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.”
And how do they do that when they don’t believe in the Christ of the Bible? What does it take to “exemplify” being a Christian? News flash: nothing except faith in Christ Jesus and His finished work on the cross can do that. All our “good works” are as filthy rags to God. Mormons do what all other cults do: they try to put on a show cause they’re based in paganism. 🤷🏻♀️
@@johnholliday5874 like The sex rituals? Yeah definitely Christ like! Members of LDS aren’t necessarily bad ppl and most think they are doing good, but they are deceived, and eventually get to go through rituals that were stolen from Freemasonry and Occult organizations. They have sex rituals! Everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe and be who they want to be. But to call themselves Christian is ridiculous when they barely follow Christs teachings. Christ never said the Father was a regular man from another planet who became god of our planet and had two sons Jesus and Satan. The cult was formed by Joseph Smith, a man who was a known con man and criminal who said only he was allowed to see what the angels told him. Those tablets that no one else could see, his wives that he forced members to give to him like property? Yeah how Christ like
If you want to know what a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes, you don't ask someone who isn't a member of that faith, you ask a faithful member. I wouldn't go to a Catholic to find out what Baptists believe.
I don't need to talk with Lucifer to know Satan is evil. Nor do I need to speak with a Mormon / LDS member to know they are heretics who believe they will be a God of some planet when they die. No thank you!
@@regpharveyThis isn’t, you are more likely to get an accurate understanding of the Latter-saint faith when you ask a member rather than one who isn’t a member, especially if you were to ask one of the scholars such as Don Bradley and Robert Boylan. The main problem that I see with those who are not members of the Church is that often times they are using a definition from their own theology to explain a doctrine taught by our Church.
A Valuetaiment supporter here and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-days Saints! Please invite a member of the Church to have a respectful and proper conversation of what we belief.
Everything that this man said is 100% true and factual about the latter-day Saints and the Mormon movement. If you do not believe that, Jesus Christ is the alpha and the Omega, the eternal God then you are by the very definition, not a Christian.
Invite an LDS leaders like David A Bednar, a former university president, or Dallin Oaks, a state supreme court Judge, etc to tell you about the LDS Theology. You will get clarity on what the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints believes in Christ, how he is the son of God, and the only way back to the Father is through him. And a bonus there will be no bashing of other faiths.
@@adrianw3985- I would LOVE to see an LDS “apostle” on this show with say Trent Horn, and James White and 2 or 3 other Christian apologists then talk. If you aren’t a Trinitarian you are not a Christian
Respectfully, please read Joseph Smith's King Follet Discourse, and compare it to Isaiah 43.10,11 John 1.1, John 1.14 There will not be any more gods . There is only One God . Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Joseph was mistaken.
LDS guy here who LOVED PBD! I love this preacher. He’s awesome. Would appreciate to have an LDS perspective here because our faith is commonly taken out of context or just misunderstood. No disrespect. I love Christian’s of all stripes. We have our disagreements theologically but grateful when we can stand together against the radical satanic ideologies of our day. What we have in common is more important than differences. Much love.
Proud and grateful LDS here as well. Excellent statement and one that should be repeated. It is a shame when protestant pastors who intellectually and theologically misrepresent the Old and New Testaments for personal gain. This man's representation of the LDS faith is both inaccurate and intentionally misleading.
@@donquijote6030 if you don’t believe that Jesus is God. Then you quite frankly are not a Christian. You are something else. By definition, you are Not a Christian. Jesus is not an angel or a small god from the planet kolob who is brothers with Satan.
@@donquijote6030 "Lds" as in Latter day saints?..well there is No Human Alive today that is a Saint and if there is The World doesn't know about him or them,cuz it would be 1 or 2 people cuz a Saint cannot be a sinner and are you not sinner's?...
@@ghostwiththewind - The definition of a saint is where we disagree. No saint has ever been perfect in life, because no man or woman besides Christ himself has been perfect in life. A saint is one who strives every day to live their life according to the teachings of Jesus Christ and improving themselves and the lives of their neighbors.
@jacktaylor3638 The truth very very often offends people. Any Christian is completely in the right for calling out the cults that twist, corrupt, change, add to and take away from the word of God. You are in a man-made, Satan inspired cult. I don't say that with malice. It is a simple truth. The doctrine you follow completely contradicts what Jesus and his apostles taught.
@KoachSavage Yes they can. The Scriptures repeatedly point out times where angels disobeyed and turned away from God. Where are you getting your information from? You just say angels can't obey so this means it's true?
As an LDS member and a long time listener of your program, I urge you to have someone from the LDS community to set rhetoric record straight. This dude is not giving accurate information
@@austinnajar - When you claim that you were "Mormon" for 30 years, perhaps you should include what kind of "Mormon" you were. Did you study the doctrine, pray, seek guidance and enlightenment? Did you attend the Temple and receive your endowments? Far too often, those that claim to be a member for any amount of time only set foot in a church a few times. Hence, duration of "membership" is hardly a gauge of commitment or knowledge of the doctrines of Christ. As for your challenge, the pastor claimed that Joseph Smith changed many of the doctrines of Christ, not the least of which was polygamy. He then glossed over one Old Testament prophet who had hundreds of wives by citing a verse from Genesis 2. However, he completely ignores the dozens of examples of Old Testament prophets that had a multitude of wives and dozens of children -- not the least of which was Jacob who became Israel, the father of the Twelve Tribes. The other big flaw in his "theology" is the criticism of the Biblical doctrine that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. If God the Father created all things, then would that make him the Father of Jesus and the fallen angel, Lucifer? Calvinism and neo-Platonism really did a number on the Protestants grasp of basic theology.
@@donquijote6030 I was born and raised in the church. I was a deacons quorum president, teachers quorum president, priest quorum assistant, served an honorable full time mission in San Antonio, TX, was endowed in the St Louis Temple, married in the Provo City Center temple, was a Ward mission leader twice, a young men’s president, and a first counselor in a bishopric. I also have read the Book of Mormon 30+ times, the D&C at least 15 and the POGP at least 10. I’ve studied the Joseph Smith Papers in depth, the Gospel Topics Essays, and the entire JOD. So if you want to compare Mormon bona fides, I’ll put mine up against anyone. And the idea that Jesus was created at all is a heresy known as Arianism and was denounced at the Council of Nicaea. So no, it doesn’t make sense at all since Jesus wasn’t created. In fact, Jesus is the creator of all things that were made which includes the angels of which Lucifer was one. This idea that Gods, men, and angels are ontologically the same is completely unsupported by scripture. God is wholly different from all of His creations. And humans and angels are not the same type of being. They never have been
@@weirdguymustache - That would be a comment from someone who has spent little to no time in an LDS Church on Sunday. In fact, the LDS speak of Christ so often that the church is named after him. What is the name of your church?
We are no strangers to this kind of stuff. This man is similar to those who persecuted Joseph those many years ago. Yet, like a stone cut out of a mountain without hands, the gospel will fill the earth and no unclean hand can stop it. People continue to fulfill prophecies set many years ago. My dear brothers and sisters whoever you are, may God bless during these troubled times. Ofa atu from your friendly neighborhood islander.
As an LDS church member I have also been listening to a lot of other christians over the years. I have often listened to Cliffe Knechtle and this is not his best work. He is stuck on the a creed created ~300 years after the death of Christ. He clearly never did a deep dive into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He is also clearly a trinitarian which I find incorrect but a detail outside of what makes a christian a christian. Personally I never gave christianity any thought at all until I understood the Godhead : Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost. Since Christ prays to his Heavenly Father in the garden of Gethsemane and on the Cross I never could accept the idea of the Trinity personally. For years it was my stuck point and helped to keep me away from God and Christ. Even my favorite Christian author CS Lewis falls into the trinitarian camp as can be seen when you read Mere Christianity. On this matter I will wait to meet my Creator and let him explain further. If a slight difference (three persons in one energy body) vs (three actual beings who are one in purpose) keeps me from heaven then I would have never made it there anyway. I sure wish more Christians would focus on our similarities and the moral laws rather than bashing each other over the mysteries/obscure details. I believe it is Satan that works to divide christians in to groups and subgroups and have us all become obsessed with what it the most accurate version of doctrine. Personally I do not take any offense to what Cliffe says here because he is wrapped around a small detail. Many of his discussions that are biblically focused are good teaching moments, and he does a lot to bring people toward Christ.
The Trinity is a “detail outside of what makes a Christian a Christian?” You are kidding right? If one is not a Trinitarian one is not a Christian- period. Your church teaches of a “great apostasy” after the death of the last apostle; absolutely and unequivocally false! We have the writings of the church fathers beginning in the 1st century. Your assertion that because the Nicene Creed was 290 years after Christs death means it’s untrue even though the Church in Council; profession of faith- yet your church shows up 1810 years later founded by a man from New York is the truth? Just stop….the absurdity is staggering
@@ragnardanneskajold1880 Don’t get your Irish up! Catholics, Protestants………we are all brothers and sisters. Just be glad that Celtic paganism is not allowed to sacrifice humans anymore.
The biggest thing that is emphasized by The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints faith is a covenant making and keeping people, who find joy in Christ and his atonement.
Tell us you're a member of the Morg, without telling us you're a member of the Morg. The way you said the name of the church is so telling of being a part of the collective.
@@jeffreydavid6794 to believe in Jesus Christ and his atonement means to believe he is God, otherwise an eternal and infinite atonement could not be possible, neither a resurrection. Have a great day.
@@GrizBear63 I have no problem declaring my membership but my personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the covenants I've made with him are the most important thing. I've covenants to always remember my Savior. To keep His commandments. And to be willing to take his name upon me. That's not including the temple covenants I've made in addition. Just as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
We're capable of reading a book that is the basis of your beliefs. Name one thing he said that is not true about the LDS church? No problem with LDS, live in Utah and love it. Nothing but positive interactions with Mormons. But theologically, it is very difficult to say LDS and Christianity belong in the same boat.
@micahkagler3236 the D&C holds more information and the various journals. Not to mention, their website is a great place to find out this information. Part of the issue, there has been a huge push to appear Christian, especially after the 2018 proclamation by President Nelson that they must drop the name Mormon as an identifier for themselves. Many young Mormons try and say, "We are Christians too!"... I have been studying Mormonism for the past three years in my efforts to counter-witness to missionaries. It's amazing how much they try and make this work.
It is annoying. Especially when he doesn't even really understand the doctrines. I'm fine if he understands them and disagrees with them, but to misrepresent them is dumb.
He’s wrong. 1. Joesph Smith affirmed that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God. People make that leap in logic because *everyone* is a spiritual son and daughter of God-that would include Satan being a spiritual being too. Thats not crazy at all. #2 Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities but one in power and purpose. Why would Christ pray to Himself on the cross or refer to God the Father several times over in the Bible? Because he is the literal Son of God not the exact same person. #3 Polygamy occured because God commanded it for a small group of people. And it worked. Their population was saved entirely from the next generation that came from it. For the last hundred years or so they’ve been monogamous and are of two demographics that are above replacement levels. 4# This dude bashes the Islam for having different versions of the Quran that were destroyed but something similar occured to the Bible. I love my KJV but entire books are missing teachings from different denominations are totally different. I’d love for PBD to have a LDS church leader to come on and explain the church’s beliefs.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Sc rolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Smith’s life choices, especially his practice of polygamy (some say with underage women), and other behaviors like forming a theocratic government in Nauvoo, Illinois I can’t trust smith
If you are a Christian the bible tells you to be ready with an answer for what you believe. And we are to share the gospel..so why not explain to me what you actually believe. I'd really like to know.
Asking a non member of the church about another church is like asking someone’s ex girlfriend about their character. There’s inherent bias and not even understanding the core doctrine of the church will always end in making your self look uneducated.
@@karlh5099 That fits into OP's statement perfectly. Former LDS=Ex Girlfriend. . . Also just so you know. . . serving a mission doesn't equate to being a devout member. . . A LOT of people do so, because it's what they think others want for them just like anything else you have a wide spectrum of human experience in a large group like LDS missionaries.
I've never seen anyone cross examine Cliffe's arguments against the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints. What about Abraham? It was convenient to not bring up that polygamy. What about Lucifer referred to as a " son of the morning" that fell from heaven? If Satan was once an angel in heaven, wouldn't he be part of God's family? Obviously Satan is not in the family anymore.... I'd love to see Cliff have a respectful debate with a scholar from the church of Jesus Christ.
@jonathanolson8945 There is no place in the Bible that encourages polygamy. The Bible is a historical book. Just because it says something happened, does not mean it is saying it is good for that thing to have happened. Solomon having hundreds of wives, especially pagan wives, was his downfall. Abraham had children with 2 different women because he sinned and did not want to wait on God. Jacob had 2 wives because he was tricked by Laban. The Bible makes it very clear in the book of Genesis what God's plan is for marriage. One man and one woman. If you have not noticed, almost every single Old and New Testament Saint was a deeply flawed person and a sinner. Having more than 1 wife is a sin.
@reagan-shayleeward7498 No, you are completely wrong. I say that not using my authority but the authority of the scriptures. Yes, every single prophet of God is flawed because every single prophet is a human which makes them a sinner. However, if a so called prophet is teaching doctrines that contradict the doctrine that Jesus and his apostles and saints taught, they are a false prophet. They are not a prophet of God. They are a prophet of demons. Joseph Smith was a person who was Influenced by demons who were telling him to change scripture and start his own cult. There are no more prophets today and there have not been since Jesus came 2000 years ago. Anyone who has come along since then telling us we need to believe things other than what the scriptures say, they are demonic. This is why the catholic church is demonic too. They change the word of God and add to it and say they have authority over what Jesus said. I am not hateful. I am stating truth. If you don't like it, I do not mean to hurt your feelings. But I will not tell people who are in satanic cults they are prophets when this is a lie.
@@jeffreydavid6794 - Polygamy was not encouraged by the LDS either, my friend. In fact, the Old Testament's treatment of polygamy is similar, if not identical, to the treatment of polygamy by the LDS faith. Not that I would expect the Protestants who spend their time attacking other religions rather than teaching why they are correct, to explain that doctrine to their adherents.
You’re totally wrong about polygamy. Pastor Cliff is completely wrong on this. He’s going to answer to God when it’s all said and done. So Abraham and Moses and David and Gideon and other Holy men of God were wrong? Where does God say polygamy is unlawful?
A non-mormon will NEVER give an accurate assessment of that church. The source of their propaganda is just protestant-derived caricatures. This was no exeption. Try asking a latter day saint about their church instead.
It's really convenient to say that you must get information "from the horses mouth". You also eliminate ALL negative criticism of that faith. I wonder what reaction Protestants would get if they tried the same tactic. No dice. Either answer the criticism or bow out of the argument. You don't get to reframe it.
@@Daniel-vp2on Let me go ask my Atheistic friends about the accuracy and truthfulness of Christianity then. I mean, why bother going to the "horse's mouth" because you don't want to negate any negative criticism of Christianity.
@@Daniel-vp2on It's even more convenient to make up nonsense about people and then demand that they pretend it's legitimate. The criticisms have been addressed ad-nauseum in perpetuity for 200 years. At this point, there's no excuse to be as appallingly misinformed as Knechtle. His embarrassing ignorance is his own fault.
@@TimothyBerman it's not that you're going somewhere. Who are watching this clip came to this site to watch it? Didn't think so. This is an attempt to silence criticism, of which you're doing towards Christianity, which happens all the time. When have you heard a Christian say, "don't bother listening to their legitimate criticisms. Hear my answer framed the way I want it first."?
This is a very click bait title. I wouldn't call it bashing I would call it using recycled tropes. Cliffe does a lot of great work, and it is frustrating that he paints our faith in deliberately misleading and oversimplified ways.
He brings out good points. I'm not Mormon, but BOM is true. I've learned , do I serve God or do I serve myself? God allows us to see spiritual truths as we grow closer to him. The Bible and BOM are spiritual books, not temporal.
@@emmanuellawyer8562 YES! The language of Lehi is the praise and worship to God. Nephi is humble and seeks God diligently and God says "blessed are you". The common theme is repentance and reconciliation with God. Please don't let the traditions of men keep you from recognizing God is always before you. Praise God!! He loves us so !!
@@paulanix7561 I'm pretty sure the Book of Mormon says black people are black because of sin. Considering how Joseph Smith lived I would say he has more in common with Muhammad and Jesus.
I have a general rule that serves me well. I don't go to McDonalds for their opinion on Burger King, and vice versa. This guy giving his opinion on other people's beliefs just displays his own ignorance of those faiths, or worse, actively lying about their beliefs in order to prop up his own that don't bear scrutiny.
@@Ghidorah_Stan64😂...no, it's on point. This is theology, not economic systems. He's not accurately portraying what other groups believe while pretending to be an expert in them. He's the very definition of going to someone's enemy to find out what they're like. You're only going to get distortions, deliberate or ignorant. Distortions all the same.
@@brentd273 Joseph Smith’s alternative version of Jesus and the gospels have no basis in any historical evidence, the early Christians and ancient Hebrews have always been monotheistic, Smith’s ridiculous claims of how certain races came to be should be enough to prove he was an idiot. You don’t need an expert theologian to disprove Mormonism, you just need a basic high school history teacher to do it 😂
@@Ghidorah_Stan64you just did what ol' mate in the video did. Soon as you cross over from 'I believe x' into 'they believe y' you enter into shaky ground. You'd want to be 100% on the money when representing someone else's belief structure and theology. Which neither that guy or you have been. Islam included.
It's funny how catholics, Muslims, Mormons always accuse people of lying about their beliefs when people are quoting directly from their religious writings. You can read something directly from the demonic writings of Joseph Smith to a Mormon and they would say that's not what mormonism teaches.
LDS return missionary here. Although yes we do believe as the Bible teaches that Mary had other children after giving birth to Christ, that were fathered by Joseph. We believe that Jesus however is her only son who was father by God in heaven. He is literally the only begotten of the father in the flesh. We also believe that the adversary, Satan, or the son of the morning will never come to this earth to receive a body of his own as Jesus did. Joseph Smith was clear on this, and this doctrine has never changed, therefore leaving it absolutely impossible for Jesus to be brothers with Lucifer in the flesh. I encourage you to speak to an actual member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to avoid this kind of distraction from the truth. Our Core message is one of The Redeemer of all man kind. Jesus Christ who came to the world to save it. Prophets, apostles, and Scripture testify of Jesus, but we worship none of these men, or scriptures. Only our Father in Heaven who gave his only begotten Son that whosever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God would not have given a new divine revelation on how to conduct life 2000 years after Jesus. He didn't do that even with the Jews. Jesus is our revelation. It is appointed everyman once to die then the judgement. No praying for the dead. All of us need Jesus' sacrifice for our sin. That's the story. Please look into how your founder had grown up in an area where lots of paganist masonic stuff was going on. Spirit channeling is a real thing and they can become very convincing... I'm speaking from experience that you can hold full on conversations with demons while believing they are angels. As well, there are NO archeological findings for Christians coming to the America's. Your founder was a demon channeler like Mohammed, like I used to be.
If you believe in Jesus as the Redeemer and Messiah, shouldn't you worship Him? As Christians we don't worship the apostles or scriptures either, but we worship Jesus. He is the Christ. He is God. He is King.
@ exactly my point 100% 👏🏼👏🏼 those other things you mentioned are just means to reach us of Christ. Not an end in and of themselves. Christ made this abundantly clear when speaking to the Pharisees
You guys still view Jesus as a white man, hand out the cards when all the historians agree he wasn't white at all. So if the image of Jesus that yall handout is wrong from the get go look at everything else with a grain of salt. Every Mormon I've met, is like every single religious zealot I've ever met. Yall have different tiers of heaven, you don't belive that Jesus was god rather a son. Reaffirming your hierarchy through male versus female. Ive not seen Mormons on missions cleaning up trash, taking thier tshirts off thier back for those down trodden. You walk around in white shirts and loafers like car salesman, and anytime someone points out intellectual facts yall cave. Ive yet to see a Mormon missionary do anything but preach, all words and no action.
@@casval-pj5tb Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with some christians from my faith. We’re taught to love one another. I’ve also seen bad examples of Christianity from both inside and outside of my faith as well. It doesn’t make Christ any less my Savior, my Redeemer, and him who I study and strive to be like. Also we don’t say he’s the son of God, the Bible does. God himself does. Matthew 17:5
LDS here. Proud to see so many other LDS supporters of the PBD podcast. Can't fault a guy for his misunderstandings of our religion any more than I would fault myself of my misunderstandings of theirs. Peace and Love to all people of all sincere religions.
@@Al-cy7wga Mormon will never get down the facts of what he may have miss represented because there isn’t one lie he told. He said exactly what Mormons believe straight from Joseph Smiths mouth. They just don’t like the fact that it came from a non member….
@Al-cy7wg where would you like to start? For one, right out the gate, he ignored half of the torah in an attempt to make polygamy seem anti biblical. Right out of the gate he just ignored critical aspects of the OT story. I love Cliff. I love the work he does. But that was some serious biblical errors he performed there towards the LDS faith. You can believe in their faith or not, that doesnt change the numerous times in the Bible that polygamy is not only practiced, but condoned by God.
@@TheSchoolofTrading I’m sorry, but there is nothing in the new testimant that permits polygamy. Secondly, if your scripture reading is based off of the Old Testament, then why are you not Jewish because people who believe in the Old Testament do not observe Jesus as our Messiah……once again, you’re in complete conflict of your own religion if you believe in the New Testament. Jesus praises marriage between one man and one woman. Not to mention the Bible does not praise “plural gods” you should know the Bible preaches there is “ONLY ONE GOD” and the whole trilogy “father, son and the whole spirit” there are plenty of passages in the Bible warning us about “false profits” and Joseph Smith is a false profit….
Why wouldn't we. We search for truth and light no matter where it comes from. But this man is not speaking it when it comes to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
PBD is hard not to like, and I’d honestly say the same thing about Cliff. Cliff may not appreciate everything I believe but I think of Luke 9:49-50. He honestly seems like a righteous dude.
@@corrystucki3874 I'm LDS and I once thought the way you do. When I did research and looked at actual reality, the fact is Joseph Smith did Indeed make up all this stuff -- including the whole claim Polygamy was commanded by God. _ESPECIALLY_ his claim polygamy was commanded by God! That alone should wake you up and help you realize Joseph Smith follows the pattern of the typical Cult Leader. He starts sleeping with all the women among his followers -- even the married women who are married to men who are his faithful followers. (you haven't read the Church Essay on "Plural Marriage" have you? It's on the Church website) Joseph Smith had all the life behaviors of the typical Psychopath. (the vast majority of psychopaths are not killers, but deceivers; they're Con Artists). There is no doubt at all that Joseph Smith was a psychopath. He had no conscience. If you go back in History and only refer to original documents, you can see, for example, how Joseph Smith gradually developed his religion. Even the name of the Church was something that evolved. He started out calling it the "Church of Christ." Next it was the "Church of the Latter-day Saints" and then "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Do you really think if GOD had revealed the name of the Church he would need to change his mind so many times? Oh, and by the way, the current version of "The Doctrine and Covenants" has in it CHANGED "revelations" from God. If you look at the earliest version of the "revelations" (various sections of the D&C) as contained in the original "Book of Commandments" (you can find it online as a pdf) you can find the original version of the revelations. Joseph Smith changed them over time as his version of his created religion changed. So he "put into God's mouth" totally different words. Joseph Smith was, in reality, an evil man. Psychopaths don't look evil. They're out to Con you, so they're charming, folksy, and confident. Joseph Smith also was not "lacking in education" as the church wants us to believe. Hyrum went to Dartmouth and came home daily and tutored his younger siblings -- including Joseph Smith. His training included Oration. Haven't you read the CES Letter? How about the SEC Report? Just do an internet search for "SEC Ensign Peak."
@@corrystucki3874 @corrystucki3874 I'm LDS and I once thought the way you do. When I did research and looked at actual reality, the fact is Joseph Smith did Indeed make up all this stuff -- including the whole claim Polygamy was commanded by God. _ESPECIALLY_ his claim polygamy was commanded by God! That alone should wake you up and help you realize Joseph Smith follows the pattern of the typical Cult Leader. He starts sleeping with all the women among his followers -- even the married women who are married to men who are his faithful followers. (you haven't read the Church Essay on "Plural Marriage" have you? It's on the Church website). Joseph Smith had all the life behaviors of the typical Psychopath. (the vast majority of psychopaths are not killers, but deceivers; they're Con Artists). There is no doubt at all that Joseph Smith was a psychopath. He had no conscience. If you go back in History and only refer to original documents, you can see, for example, how Joseph Smith gradually developed his religion. Even the name of the Church was something that evolved. He started out calling it the "Church of Christ." Next it was the "Church of the Latter-day Saints" and then "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Do you really think if GOD had revealed the name of the Church he would need to change his mind so many times? Oh, and by the way, the current version of "The Doctrine and Covenants" has in it CHANGED "revelations" from God. If you look at the earliest version of the "revelations" (various sections of the D&C) as contained in the original "Book of Commandments" (you can find it online as a pdf) you can find the original version of the revelations. Joseph Smith changed them over time as his version of his created religion changed. So he "put into God's mouth" totally different words. Joseph Smith was, in reality, an evil man. Psychopaths don't look evil. They're out to Con you, so they're charming, folksy, and confident. Joseph Smith also was not "lacking in education" as the church wants us to believe. Hyrum went to Dartmouth and came home daily and tutored his younger siblings -- including Joseph Smith. His training included Oration. Haven't you read the CES Letter? How about the SEC Report? Just do an internet search for "SEC Ensign Peak."
That's a lot of hate from someone who doesn't even know what we believe or stand for. The lds church has done more good in the world than most churches combined, but we still get called Satan. Doesn't matter though. We follow christ, and people hated him too.
Why would you interpret what he said as hate? Very strong word for someone who disagrees with the lds church. He is doing a difficult thing for most people, telling truth even though it is offensive to some. You disagree with him, I'm sure you don't hate him.
@@ryanbernhardt619 - Because it is derived of hatred...and old and bitter hatred. All Protestant religions, and there are many, believe that they can prove that they are right by attempting to tear down everyone around them. That is the epitome of hate.
PBD is the goat! Love his work! I’m a member of the “Mormon” Church and I don’t think Cliff represented our religion very well. Would love to see an interview with a member to clarify some of the points Cliff made.
@@aaronraju8254I think he was referring to Christ and Lucifer being “brothers”. Latter-day Saints believe that there is a Heavenly Father who is a separate being from Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Only Begotten in the Flesh and is literally (not figuratively) the Son of God…. They believe in God the Father and God the Son as being One in purpose but separate in personage (John 17). But they also believe that ALL of mankind are spirit sons and daughters of God. That ALL spirits were created by God. And one of those spirits was Lucifer. Logically, it checks out.
@@ErinAbou I agree… my spirit is different from Lucifer’s, too. Christ has all the glory and power of God the Father. Lucifer has the exact opposite. But, they both have a spirit that came from the same Creator. (Christ has both spirit and body-a perfect resurrected body, just like God the Father… but Lucifer will never have a physical body).
"Mormonism: A Challenging Conversion For those born into the faith, Mormonism is often a deeply ingrained part of their identity. However, for individuals from mainstream Christianity, embracing Mormonism can be a difficult and complex process. Studying Mormon doctrine reveals contradictions with traditional Christian teachings, making it challenging to accept. The core of Mormonism relies on accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet and the Book of Mormon as divine scripture. To overcome doubts, potential converts are encouraged to pray for confirmation, seeking a spiritual feeling or "testimony" that the Book of Mormon is true. This approach can be unsettling, especially considering the unconventional origins of the faith. Joseph Smith claimed an angel took the golden plates, which he translated into the Book of Mormon. This narrative raises questions and skepticism for many. The conversion process requires significant faith and often involves: 1. Overcoming contradictions with mainstream Christianity 2. Embracing Joseph Smith's prophetic claims 3. Accepting the Book of Mormon's divine origin 4. Trusting personal spiritual experiences over rational inquiry This journey can be daunting, especially for those accustomed to more traditional Christian teachings." Or, if you'd like a more concise version: "Mormonism's Unique Challenges As a mainstream Christian, embracing Mormonism can be tough due to: 1. Contradictions with traditional teachings 2. Joseph Smith's prophetic claims 3. Book of Mormon's unconventional origins 4. Relying on prayer for confirmation Born-and-raised Mormons may find it harder to question their faith, but outsiders face a more complex conversion process."
You cannot become a God. God himself says he does not even know of any other God. That is the problem many people have with this religion. That and the idea that a murderous person who took teenage brides is going to judge what level of heaven I am going to.
@@katscully Yeah but he's still an Arab, which means he still has Muslim friends somewhere to watch this show and by proxy (relation) he doesn't wanna offend them on behalf of Patrick.
PBD- not a good idea to have someone fundamentally opposed to certain religions be the one to explain them to you. Have a rep from each one explain the why. This guy presents himself as an expert when he does is bash his competition-
I sincerely believe polygamy was an invention of Brigham Young after the murder of Joseph Smith. Joseph was on record rebuking his followers who started practicing it. I would consider myself a "non-denominational Mormon" at this point as I no longer follow the LDS church but do believe in the teachings of Joseph Smith. As far as Jesus and Lucifer being brothers.... This comes from the belief that Jesus is the son of God and God created all including Satan who rebelled. Satan has no power to create therefor God created him. God's own son (flesh by Mary and deity by God) Jesus Christ is our Savior. He was baptized and the voice of God said "this is my son in whom I'm well pleased." I Don't know how or why people believe this is the same person. God testifying of Jesus and Jesus testifying of his father.
@@katscully We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. It's mainly because of the archeology, "friendly" writers, and "hostile" writers mentioned above that the Jesus Seminar, who are PhD level ashiest/agnostics who study Christ and the Bible, concluded that Jesus really lived in Judea 2,000 years ago, was known as a miracle workers, died on the cross under Pilate, and that his disciples really believed they had seen him risen from the dead. The fact that there are contradictions between manuscripts is often sited as proof against trusting scripture, when it actually does the opposite. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. There is also all the undisigned coincidence between not only the four Gospels, but the rest of the New and Old Testaments too. Matthew 2:22 talks about Joseph not wanting to return to Judea after fleeing to Egypt because Archelaus was ruling. That's all the info on that the Bible gives. Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us about the things Archelaus did and how evil he was. Put these two peices of evidence together, we get the full picture. This sort of thing happens through the text with the seemingly useless details matching up perfectly with extra Biblical sources, lending to the credibility of the text. The Apostles willingness to be killed not for saying they believed Jesus had risen, but they knew he had risen, because they saw him. If the tomb wasn't empty, they would've paraded the body around to stomp out any idea of Jesus being ressurrected, but Christianty spread because there was no body in the tomb. If someone stole the body, why were nearly all the Apostles willing to be killed for saying they'd seen Jesus risen? They were thousands of miles away from one another before phones and the internet and were being threaten, tortured, and murdered for their claim. Not one "broke" and said it was a lie to save themselves. It's because of the evidence that I believe in Jesus.
Complete nonsense, Islam is most fastest growing religion in conversation because it makes more sense whereas other religions do not make sense and they either follow their desires or it’s been corrupted
Lol keep wishing pagan - you literally worship a demi god and that by definition is a pagan 😂. Islam is the only monotheistic faith out there, with the most elaborate, strictest definition of who and what God is that no other faith can match.
Cliffe has been debating athiests for over 40 years he is not that well imformed on other denominations because he tries to just stick with the bible or sometimes oradox so cliffe is very smart but he has not gotten deep into other denomiation only hit the surface, now I don't know you but try preaching the gospel for over 40 years to athiests and planting seed but people imply you a bad christian. Cliffe has most likely thought he was going to be asked things relating to athiestm because thats who cliffe has been preaching too for the last 40 years
@@GalaxyCatPlays Yes, He is very smart. Why would a very smart man skilled and seasoned in debating with athiests think he would be prepared to debate an area of religion that he hasn't even read or diligently studied?
The idea of Satan and Jesus both being spirit children of God the Father and yet on completely different spiritual levels is not as weird as Cliff makes it out to be. This heavenly pattern is something we see everywhere here on earth. Children born to the same parents can take completely different paths and yet they come from the same genetics and are raised in similar environments. We are all spirit children of God the Father. We all lived as spirits before this life. We had the ability to make choices. Jesus made all the correct choices and became a God in his own right. Satan, on the other hand, made all the wrong choices and rebelled against God the Father.
@@blakesurerus7272 2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
To venerate fiction is blasphemy. 2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Why not get someone who actually belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ on the show instead of asking a guy who clearly doesn’t understand their beliefs?
@@Bc232klm Look, if you’re not a believer in Christ and have no desire to investigate what Christianity is then fine. I’m not here to have that debate. I’m just here to point out that the stuff this guy is saying is both factually false or misrepresented.
I cannot listen to a man speak about the LDS church if he’s never read the BOM, because he’s immediately coming from a place of ignorance. The BOM is the word of God and compliments the Bible 💯
he doesnt need to. the bom is not the word of God. the Bible is, and joseph smith taught lies about Jesus and gave false propheicies, which disqualify him as any kind of prophet, and show he was a false prophet. turn to the Jesus of the Bible and away from that cult.
@@brianm2238 from a man who read the BOM, right? No one can claim to have a true knowledge of something untill they have truly studied it because all their opinions are based on heresay. You really can't offer valid evidence to your claims. I understand that it can be scary to learn about something we are not used to especially when we have been prejudiced against it but anyone claiming to have God's Holy Spirit has the ultimate witness and if we are not blocking him with our fear and hate, we can know for ourselves with a testimony vs an opinionwithout fact basis. This principle is true applied in attaining all knowledge that God reveals to us.
And what's even more frustrating is the fact that they aren't even willing to give the book a chance. When someone says that the Book of Mormon is Satanic and of the devil, you can guarantee they haven't read it. And it's almost as if they're afraid that the church ends up actually being true. If you have a strong enough testimony and a clear enough mind, the fiery darts of the adversary will have no effect on you. When I was attempting to cook up a batch of soap on our porch a while back, I had left the oily mixture simmering on our propane stove(I find that the hot process is easier and faster) to try and get it to the right consistency, it caught fire. The flames were at least two feet high, and my father ran inside to get baking soda. The only issue is that when he poured it on the burning oil, it only made the flames grow higher, reaching even further and practically licking the gutter. If we have a strong enough faith and a deep enough of a love for God, what would normally be seen as anti and "knife in the coffin" arguments only drive us deeper into what we already know. I don't have the strongest testimony as of late, but one of the reasons I enjoy reading and going through anti content is because of the plain fact that it hypes me up about my religion. All of these atis online hating on the church just reaffirm me of my testimony rather than lead me away from it. The only question is if it does the same for them. Why do they hate, despise, and even fear a simple book "written" by an uneducated farm boy if they seek after truth. They have the Bible as their sole scipture, what need they to fear? If they truly know the truth, then why do they despise and destroy what they *know* to be incorrect. Not many of them show a lot of compassion towards the church and the BoM. I think the answer is simple. They are afraid. They don't want to give up the lease that their religion offers. They don't want to investigate what they fear might be true. I don't mean to offend anybody, but it seems that this is the case.
@@Susieq26754 We don't blame you for wanting us to go away. At least you aren't apathetic. In some way you must think or feel we represent something you dislike. Remember love and hate is just one step apart from each other. Our church is filled with folks who had a change of heart. Read the Book of Mormon, your heart will change also.
Sounds like PBD knows more than his guest about the Latter-day Saints. The ignorance is nauseating and begs for a guest offering an informed view, preferably an actual member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!
@chriseasterly5142 thats a good point, there is little to no archeological evidence for things described in the book of mormon. The nephites supposedly had metal tools, weapons, and armor, as well as horses and charriots. None of which showed up until the europeans arrived long after the events of the book.
I am a recent follower of this channel, as well as a recent reformed democrat to independent to republican, former “Never Trumper” who plans to vote for him this time, in large part because of this podcast. My heart literally dropped when I saw this and I felt so gutted. As a member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, AKA “Mormons” It is so exhausting to have our purpose, culture and religious beliefs constantly mischaracterized and misrepresented by so called “experts” or “authority” figures. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PBD, do better. We have plenty of wonderful members who could give you better and more accurate information about what we TRULY believe, as well as context and a more accurate frames of reference. What I have liked about this channel (up to now) is the impression you and your companions have given that you genuinely desire the pursuit of truth. That guy did not give that to you. I’m actually dreading seeing what more there is to this interview. I agree with what others have said, if you really want to know and understand us, please actually include one of us in the conversation.
It’s because it’s not historically or theologically accurate. Do some research on this. Part of the LDS problems is that you defend things which are not taught in the Bible, the Old and New Testaments. I hope this helps, as I am not trying to offend anyone, just giving an honest critique.
Maybe ask a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints what they believe.... not an apologist who doesn't know the old testament and realize how important it is.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet. Study Joseph's own words, not the lies people have told about them. Just because someone wrote something down 150 years ago doesn't automatically make it true. Look at what the main stream media wrotes down today. I hope people don't take that as face value as truth in 150 years. Study Joseph's own words with an open mind and you'll find value and truth. "When they are learned they think they are wise, and harken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not." -2 Nephi 2:28
The Vatican was infiltrated and has been throughout history. That is why there are Protestant Churches. We are talking about very evil activities the Catholic Church has engaged in and continues to engage in including raping the children of its members.
Patrick, please invite renowned LDS Blake Ostler on for a segment of your show to clarify and refute Cliffe. Paul and Peter corrected each other, so don’t take Cliffe as the ultimate authority on a religion when the Bible prophets were even often wrong and in need of correction
To venerate fiction is blasphemy. 2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
To venerate fiction is blasphemy. 2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Please, I plead, if you want to be intellectually honest, start with truly UNDERSTANDING the concept. The teaching is that WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD. We are ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS. And @valuetainment PBD, it is 10% any extra is optional charity. (My caps aren't shouting, I just can't use italics or underlines for emphasis, apologies)
actually none of us begin as children of God, but of wrath. Only when the Holy Spirit has drawn us and we respond in repentance and faith do we become his children. "among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind." Ephesians 2.
@@davidpoole409 You're on UA-cam, if you can't do a quick search and find solid info yourself, you don't care enough to truly process and accept the information.
@@pewtorye I have and frankly there is almost NO content with LDS debating Christians. Seems they avoid debates. Plenty of Christians out there evangelizing and debating the soundness of their faith.
On that subject, It is clear that Father children are His children in his family and therefore siblings including Lucifer. But it is not so clear that satan is still a member of God's family as perdition is to destroy and satan is cut off from life and heaven to which the rest of God's children will be taken except the sons of perdition. Technically, are jesus and satan still brothers? Please include scripture sources in your reply. thank you.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
They're verses are diametrically opposed to much of Christianity. I honestly wonder if Joseph ever read the entire bible. An example is Jesus SPECIFICALLY said that people don't marry or give into marriage in heaven, that we are like angels. This is opposed to Mormonism who claim we marry in heaven. The book of Galatians 1:8 warns about angels who preach false gospels to people. Both Islam and Mormonism have angels that speak different gospels in them.
Didn’t realize Valuetainment had resorted to religion bashing and misrepresentation. Unfortunately will be the last video I watch unless there’s some sort of reconciliation. Have loved the channel up until now. If we don’t start sticking together and looking for the best in each other, we’re toast.
have you actually watched PBD? PBD has offered several shows of similar content offering the opportunity for various religious leaders to speak and make their point.
I do actually. Frequently - checking my history just now, looks like 10-15 videos a day. I may have been unclear at what specifically I take issue with. It’s not the varying views at all. This one straight, a little too far, in my opinion, into bashing and misrepresentation. If one can’t promote one’s religious views without bashing others’ through willful misrepresentation, then you’re probably doing it wrong.
Like this if you think Pat should bring on a Mormon scholar to properly respond to this disinformation (Blake Ostler would be best, terryl givens, Patrick Mason, or an actual church leader would be good)
@@louccideavon7116 David Alexander is an 47-year Evangelical he started a UA-cam channel the moment he began meeting with the LDS missionaries. His perspective on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is absolutely amazing . I would love to see an interview with him and PBD
@@ErinAbou not really, Mormons have a rich intellectual tradition. I agree that there are a lot of hive mind, naive followers, but there is a significant part of their religion that are extremely smart. Let's have good faith discussions. You can't try and compare religions of your best versus someone else's worst as a serious argument. Mormon scholars are extremely bright. You should have nothing to be afraid of to let one on and challenge the BS of Cliffe
I’m a convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Have been for 20 years now. Before that I went to many churches. Among many things that stood out to me about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is that not only was there no bashing of other faiths but rather a love and respect for them. Whereas in the other faiths I attended they spoke much evil about the “mormons”. In the very beginning when I began to criticize my previous faith and the one I was born into (Catholic) I was lovingly corrected by the missionaries and told that we love and respect all other religions. This has been the same message I have received all these years later and I share it with others. I love all my Christian brothers and sisters. We have so much more in common than we have differences. ❤️
So you’re saying that Joseph Smith didn’t have plural wives or you don’t believe that Jesus or brothers with Lucifer? That’s exactly what Mormons believe
@@georgewashington1414 Jeremiah 17: 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
I am a Non-denominational Christian who seeks God daily, and participates in a number of things on a weekly basis, as God leads me: prayer, Bible study, fasting, giving to those in need (among others). I have structure, even though I do not identify as Catholic (which I moved away from over 2 decades ago).
@Converse-o4d Jesus is not a religion. He is all about relationship with Him. According to His Word, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.. According to His Word, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
Think you need to read the Old Testament again. Moses was not a polygamist. Also, just because they did it, doesn’t make it right and it goes against God’s word many times. For example, why would biblically structured elders of the church need to be “…the husband to one wife..”? (1 Tim 3:2)
@@klutz8019 OK, I read the Old Testament again. Just like you said... and guess what I found, sweetheart! Exodus 2:21 Moses marries Zipporah, and Numbers 12:1 Moses marries an Ethiopian woman. (This must be so embarrassing for you. We all see clearly now why your name is klutz) Please show me where God condemned any of them for polygamy. Remember, you cannot add your opionin to the Bible - Revelation 22:18.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
There are millions of LDS church members in the U.S. You can find one to talk to on your show. David Snell, Jacob Hansen, Cardon Ellis, or even church leadership. This guys take on it is biased and not completely accurate
Tell me what he said that was wrong? I live in the middle of Mormonism. Married an now ex -Mormon, she was a missionary. I have studied Mormonism for over 30 years. He only barely scratching the surface of what is wrong with Mormonism as compared to Biblical Christianity.
I would not trust one of them since they can't even do their own research to realize how much Joseph Smith lied and how so very little LDS theology matches up to the original Orthodox Church or even that of the temple ceremonies of the Apostles. Absolute heresy with no historical or archeological evidence to back up the Book of Mormon or any of the teachings of the church. Take some time to do your research and stop being a sheep following the words of a wolf.
For a guy that's pissed at Joseph Smith for messing with his version of Christianity. His love for the non biblical idea of the Trinity that Christ himself never taught is kinda hypocritical
The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit speak to each other and about each other like they are separate people. There are passages where God speaks in the first person in the Old Testament, and Jesus will quote these in the first person about himself. He will claim things that are titles of God alone about himself and tells us he can not only hear our prayers but has the ability to answer them too. Psalm 95:7 - for he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care. Today, if only you would hear his voice, Isaiah 43:13 - Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?” Deuteronomy 32:29 - “See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand. Two of these are God speaking in the first person, one about God. John 10:27-30 Jesus speaking, - 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” It continues to 33 with the Jewish audience picking up stones to kill Jesus, he asks for what good works do you stone me, and they say not for good works, but you being a man make yourself out to be God. John 14:13-14 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 5:19-23 Jesus said that he does everything exactly as he see the Father does and does everything the Father does and that Jesus will be judge and the Father will judge no one. John 8, Jesus says that he saw Abraham and Abraham didn't try to kill him like the Jews were and Abraham was glad to see him. John 8:58, Jesus said that before Abraham was, I AM, which is what God told Moses his name was. John 1:1,14 Jesus is the Word who was there in the beginning with God, and who was God, who took on flesh and dwelt among us. Genesis 15:1-5 Jesus is the Word who came to Abram in a vision and gave him the promise of Issac, then verse 5 says the Word of the Lord (who is Jesus) lead Abram outside and gave him the promise of innumerable descendants, as many as the stars. A human being is what I am. trenititybrehm is who I am. God is what the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are. One God, who is three people. The only reason the Trinity exists is because scripture teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple (meaning his body) and in three days, I will raise it up!" He did not say his Father would raise him, although the Father and the Holy Spirit are each explicitly given credit for raising Jesus. Isaiah 43:11, God said there is no savior besides him. Titus 3:6 Jesus is called our Savior. John 6:46, Jesus says no one has seen the Father, yet Abraham spoke face to face with God in Genesis 18:19, Moses spoke face to face with God in Exodus 33:11 and Moses and the elders of Israel went up Mount Sinai and saw the God of Israel seated on a throne and ate with him. Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32:22-32. Jesus is the one who ascends and descends out of heaven and the appearances of God throughout the Old Testament is Jesus. This is why he said before Abraham was, I am in John 8:58 Genesis 19:24 "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from the LORD out of the heavens." When LORD is all caps it's using God's holy name in Hebrew, and Abraham was just pleading face to face with God to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Gen 19:24 says Yahweh rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah from Yahweh out of heaven. Jesus is the Yahweh who spoke to Abraham face to face and called sulfur and brimstone out of heaven from Yahweh the Father. Jesus is God with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is what scripture taught from the beginning because it is from the scripture that the idea of the tri-unity between the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit as being God teaches. Not something come up with later. Mark 1:1-4, the very first verses of the very first chapter of what is cited as the very first Gospel calls Jesus God. It references Isaiah 40:3 and Malachi 3:1 where Yahweh says he will send his messenger who will be like a voice in the wilderness to make the way before he himself comes to his temple. Mark says John is that voice in the wilderness, making the way for Jesus. John 1:23 , Matthew 3:3, and Luke 3:4 also say the exact same things. So all four Gospels call Jesus Yahweh in the first few chapters in the exact same way quoting the exact same Old Testament scriptures to do so. In Mark 10:18, Jesus said,"Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." Meaning: "You call me good when only God is good, do you understand what you are calling me?" To further the point, Christ then lists the 6 commandments that relate to how people deal with each other and asks the man if he's followed those. The man says yes. Then, instead of listing the 4 commandments on how to relate to God and asking if he's followed those, Jesus tells the man, "Follow me," because following and worshiping Christ is following and worshiping God. In Mark Jesus heals the paralytic man, but first, he tells him your sins are forgiven. The Pharisees around thought in their hearts this was blasphemy, because only God can forgive sins. Jesus instantly know what they were thinking and called them out on it, and said to prove to you I can forgive sins, get up and walk and the paralytic could walk. Jesus proved he is God for only God can forgive sins, only God knows the hearts of men (Jeremiah 11:20 and 17:10), and only God can heal people. Jesus did all three in Mark's Gospel, which is often considered the oldest of the four. Read Hebrews 1:8-12. Old Testament scriptures are quoted that are talking about God creating the universe, and Hebrews 1:8-12 quotes them and attributes the Father calling Jesus God, the Lord who created the everything, who is eternal. Hebrews 1:10-12 Is directly quoting Psalm 102:25-27, where the Psalm is talking about Yahweh (God) and Hebrews is talking about Jesus, the Son. Philippians 2:5-7 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: Matthew 1:23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means “God with us" ) Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God." Revelation 1:17-18 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Isaiah 48:16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.” (God is speaking, saying he was there from the beginning, and that the Lord God and His Spirit sent him. The Trinity in the Old Testament.) Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
These next passages are about the Holy Spirit being a separate person from the Father and the Son, and also being God. Matthew 3:16-17 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 15:26-27 But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning. John 16:13-15 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. 2 Samuel 23:2-3 (David calling the Spirit God) “The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: ‘He who rules over men must be just, Ruling in the fear of God. Acts 5:3-4 (Peter calling the Spirit God) But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
I guarantee cliffe knows the Bible better than you do bro. This guy has been preaching for over 30 years. The Bible, not from plates in a language no one ever spoke, from plates no one ever saw. Just the story of him getting the plates and bringing them home makes no sense. You can't carry that much gold at 14, grown men can't lift it. Many parts of the BoM have been debunked.
Patrick, what brings people to the LDS church is a simple answer. It’s not what is being “sold” as you say. It’s that we ask people to seek after God in prayer and ask to know what is true. Plain and simple. Hope that helps. We are seekers of truth. We accept the truth, no matter where we find it. Truth is truth, am I right?
Bringham Young and Joseph Smith both OPENLY embraced white racism and wrote about it. Joseph Smith HIMSELF wrote that black skin is a justification for slavery in the U.S. He published this in his own books in English, so there's no interpretation or translation excuses. We know this is incorrect doctrine for scientific reasons, but also because one of the first gentile converts was from Ethiopia. It says it in the bible. All tribes and tongues will be preached to. The bible never mentions that dark skin is a curse in any passage. Face it, your gospel is FALSE, and you need to seek after the true gospel and read the bible and embrace true Christianity. Galatians 1:8 specifically warned about false gospels preached by angels. Both Mormonism and Islam were brought by angels.
To all the Mormon/LDS members in the chat, thank you for being courteous and respectful in the chat. However, I must say that Joseph Smith was wrong and the Mormonism is a false religion! The Bible is the word of God and Jesus Christ is the eternal, pre-existent Son of God! He is the creator and saviour of the world🙏🏾❤️
FUNNY.. ALL THESE FAITHS ARE ANTI BLACK HEBREW.. THE ONES WHO DESCEND FROM BIBLICAL CHATTEL SLAVERY OF ARABS AND EUROPEANS.. GEE. KYRIE DOES A POST AND ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE.. SAYS A LOT.
@@edmarlow5580 The concept of tithing, specifically giving 10% of one’s income or produce, originates in the Old Testament and is mentioned in several places. Here are the key passages that address the 10% tithe: Old Testament 1. Genesis 14:20 - Abraham gives a tenth of his spoils to Melchizedek, king of Salem and priest of God Most High. This passage is one of the earliest references to the idea of giving a tenth. 2. Genesis 28:22 - Jacob vows to give God a tenth of everything God gives him, marking another early instance of the 10% principle. 3. Leviticus 27:30-32 - This passage outlines the command that a tenth of the produce of the land (grain, fruit, etc.) belongs to the Lord, as well as a tenth of livestock. 4. Numbers 18:21 - God instructs that the Israelites should give a tenth of their income to support the Levites, who served as priests but did not have land or other means of income. 5. Deuteronomy 14:22-23 - This passage again commands the Israelites to set aside a tenth of their harvest to honor and remember the Lord. New Testament In the New Testament, there’s less focus on a specific 10% tithe and more on generous and cheerful giving. However, Jesus does acknowledge the practice of tithing: 1. Matthew 23:23 - Jesus criticizes the Pharisees for meticulously tithing while neglecting weightier matters like justice, mercy, and faith. He acknowledges that they should tithe but not neglect other important aspects of the law. 2. Luke 18:12 - In the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee boasts about fasting and giving a tenth of all he gets. This reflects the cultural practice of tithing 10% in Jesus’ time. If someone in the Mormon church needs financial aide, help making house payments, food, medical etc it’s generously given to them from members tithes and offerings. Humanitarian aide is given all over the world from tithing. Members in need all over the world are given money to pursue education. Look into all that’s done with tithes, I think you’ll be surprised.
Islam is of Satan.... 👉 And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir
What if the member is misinformed about thier own group. Mormon/ LDS faith and even religions like Jehovah's witnesses are high control groups. What members think they know isnt always the case. Source: im an ex JW and also attended LDS meetings for a considerable time.
Yes, it will make more Mormons change their mind, and do their own research. Then if they can open their eyes, then they will see that the have been deceived.
PBD interviewing someone who has a misconstrued view about a religion and who constantly bashes it, isn’t very fair or accurate. PBD, if you want to learn about a religion, interview someone high profile from that religion and ask them the hard questions and have them defend what they believe. Don’t ask someone questions who has a negative view about a religion, because they will only bash it based on the little misconstrued knowledge they have of the religion.
I don’t understand your point of view. This person is actually on point when it comes to structure. Religion is nothing more than the tradition of man, Matthew 15. Nonetheless, I respect everyone’s beliefs and show God’s love to everyone I meet.
@@Daniel-jh3tc I wasn’t referring to his view on structure. I was referring to his views on a specific religion. He clearly has his views about a religion which he bashes. I was saying it’s not fair to interview someone about a specific religion who clearly has negative opinions about that religion and who might not understand why they believe what they believe.
@@alukiian8148 I know, let's pray that he can reach more people with the truth and share the good news of the gospel of Jesus with followers of the satanic cults of catholicism, Islam and mormonism.
@@jeffreydavid6794 I challange you to pray in earnist for God's enlightenment on LDS for a clean heart and being open to the Holy Spirit and see what God tells you. Keep praying until He answers you and as you know some require prayer and fasting so I challange you to put the weight of your soul behind your words and fast and pray.
I like this person because they are loving and fair. One thing though is that if you take what he says without any context, it can give a kind of different view than the actual mormon view. The actual mormon view says that all humans who have ever existed are Jesus's brother. The devil (satan, or lucifer) was one of those brothers who in the pre-existence rebelled against the creator (the Father) and we did not (this is why the devil never could take a body). So it is more encompassing to say that mormons believe everyone who ever lived is brothers with lucifer, and also Jesus. If you just make it sound like "the devil and Jesus are brothers" that does not really make much sense of the actual teaching. Just wanted to clarify that.
His vies are grounded by the pagan Roman Empire. Views that dictated a trinity doctrine never taught by Christ. His confusion reflects the very reason a Restoration was needed.
If you want to know and understand what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in (in the proper context), then you don't go to non-members to explain it. That is like asking a liberal to explain republican policies 🙄 I am very disappointed in this video and that you chose to post it. I had more respect for your point of view until now.
Cliffe has been debating athiests for over 40 years he is not that well informed on other denominations because he tries to just stick with the bible or sometimes oradox christianity so cliffe is very smart but he has not gotten deep into other denomiation only hit the surface, now I don't know you but try preaching the gospel for over 40 years to athiests and planting seed but then people imply you're a bad christian. Cliffe has most likely thought he was going to be asked things relating to athiestm because thats who cliffe has been preaching too for the last 40 years
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
No they are not. Galatians 1:8 warns about false gospels preached by angels. Jesus himself said that people do not marry in heaven. Your book directly contradicts this verse in the bible.
I converted from Mormonism to Orthodox Christianity, I feel much more at home in the Orthodox church but still have love for many Mormons, my parents being two of them. Unfortunately, Joseph Smith and many of the beliefs were a turn off. I also felt very judged in the mormon church, many of the young adult and even the elderly crowd walk around with their nose in the air. Very judgemental. I never feel that in the Orthodox church. I often ask my parents if they believe "insert mormon belief here" and theyll say no or give it back the way they see it and i just dont have the courage to say why are you going to a church where you dont believe what they believe?
Lds member my whole life. 50 years old. Not sure why you would bring on a person that is not a member of my church to tell you about it. Do some homework and bring on a active member that can speak to these issues your discussing. Please.
Cliff makes his money being a pastors. Our bishops (pastors) are all volunteer. I was raised Catholic, became Methodist, and have been LDS 28 plus years. We study the Old Testament, New Testsment, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. We also study words of prophets. Satan’s name means son of the morning. He is our brother and so is Jesus-we are all children of God, our Heavenly Father.
Lucifer's name means son of the morning' He lost that name when he was cast out of Father's Heaven and became satan = adversary. satan is not the same nature as he was as Lucifer. He has been banned from returning to the Father's house and sentenced to eternal death and outter darkness by the Father. Is he even a legitamate member of God's family anymore? I feel no compassion for satan and I feel no kinship to him. As I look at now, i think he has been cut off like a branch from the tree. Exactly where does it say that satan is a brother to Christ's people? I've only ever understood it from the benefit that Lucifer is a child of God. And the assumption that as satan he still is. Now I am curious to know more.
@@nanizon I can refer you to the LDS website to study it. No room here. Yes he was physically and spiritually rejected, will never have a resurrected body or live with God again.
No where does sacred script say jesus and satan are brothers. Yes Lucifer was the morning son and a brother but he was banned, cut off and became the destroyer and adversary. the word satan does not mean son of the morning. That's a misapplication.
That's where you are in error. Satan is an angel, a created being. Jesus is God. The second in the Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. He told the Pharisees, Before Abraham was, I Am. He is the word. The word was in the beginning and created all things and was and is God.
The thing this guy confidently leaves out, is he only believes what the pagan Roman government told him he is allowed tk be believe. He may want to look at his own history before speaking ill of other religions.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. It's mainly because of the archeology, "friendly" writers, and "hostile" writers mentioned above that the Jesus Seminar, who are PhD level ashiest/agnostics who study Christ and the Bible, concluded that Jesus really lived in Judea 2,000 years ago, was known as a miracle workers, died on the cross under Pilate, and that his disciples really believed they had seen him risen from the dead. The fact that there are contradictions between manuscripts is often sited as proof against trusting scripture, when it actually does the opposite. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. There is also all the undisigned coincidence between not only the four Gospels, but the rest of the New and Old Testaments too. Matthew 2:22 talks about Joseph not wanting to return to Judea after fleeing to Egypt because Archelaus was ruling. That's all the info on that the Bible gives. Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us about the things Archelaus did and how evil he was. Put these two peices of evidence together, we get the full picture. This sort of thing happens through the text with the seemingly useless details matching up perfectly with extra Biblical sources, lending to the credibility of the text. The Apostles willingness to be killed not for saying they believed Jesus had risen, but they knew he had risen, because they saw him. If the tomb wasn't empty, they would've paraded the body around to stomp out any idea of Jesus being ressurrected, but Christianty spread because there was no body in the tomb. If someone stole the body, why were nearly all the Apostles willing to be killed for saying they'd seen Jesus risen? They were thousands of miles away from one another before phones and the internet and were being threaten, tortured, and murdered for their claim. Not one "broke" and said it was a lie to save themselves. It's because of the evidence that I believe in Jesus.
@@trentitybrehm5105 you have the writings of SOME of the disciples. The rest were left out by Pagan emperors, took back to Rome and burned. This is historical fact and indisputable. It was done to control the "Christians", who really aren't Christians. Of course pagans wrote those things, they don't want you to know the real teachings of Jesus. I find it ironic you only listen to pagans and not God. You never once said God inspired the pagans who put the bible together and this is the only word of God. The men who put the bible together during the abominable creeds were lying backstabbing. Litterally. They killed anyone who disagreed with them. The only reason you believe what you do is because one group had a bigger militia than the rest. Not because God said this is true.
Satan was known as Lucifer and the “Son of the morning “. He was a fallen angel. Angel is translated in various ways. I don’t see an issue where someone who was good turns evil. We saw that in Cain and Abel. Just because Cain became bad doesn’t take away from Abel being good. The universe is full of opposites. Like Ying and Yang . I don’t believe that you should disparage someone or a religion because they have a different profound view of things. After all, wasn’t the story of Jesus Christ first disparaged by those who thought themselves wiser and more knowledgeable?
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
How was it to disparge, all he did was state we he thinks they are wrong.Is that not the point of answering the question. Cliffe has been debating athiests for over 40 years he is not that well informed on other denominations because he tries to just stick with the bible or sometimes oradox christianity so cliffe is very smart but he has not gotten deep into other denomiation only hit the surface, now I don't know you but try preaching the gospel for over 40 years to athiests and planting seed but then people imply you're a bad christian. Cliffe has most likely thought he was going to be asked things relating to athiestm because thats who cliffe has been preaching too for the last 40 years
LDS members reading this. Know that if you keep seeking Jesus, read His Word, and pray to Our Father, you are welcome to find a home within The Catholic Church. Grace and Peace to you. 🙏
Satan twists the truth, he is clever and smarter than we can possibly imagine. Mormon’s do work in gods name and are good people, but just be weary of what your taught. Jesus formed the church after his resurrection, he didn’t continue to make changes in different nations afterwards. Trust in his word, remain faithful to the one and only god. Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one and the same. Search your hearts, you know this to be true. God Bless everyone on this journey currently, the path to heaven is narrow so lead with love, grow in faith, repent, and trust in our lord. Have a good day everyone
Patrick, please interview David Alexander or look at some of his content. He has an amazing perspective as an Evangelical in regards to the Church " Mormons". By the way "Mormons" is a slang term the proper name of the church is," the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
People have misunderstood and truth does not stop being true if a person doesn’t believe it. Joseph Smith plural marriage revelation was a test on faith.
@ well if it runs opposed to the Gospel of Christ in the new testament it has to be a new Gospel joseph smith reveals things contrary to what Christ taught
Exactly, Joseph smith denounced all Christian religions as abominations. So why did he go ahead and call himself a Christian? A religion that believes there is more than one god and they can become gods is not Christian. Why invite a Christian on your show when you want to know about a non Christian religion?
0:40 Cliff, where does it say in "Mormon" scripture that Jesus and Satan are brothers? As you say, it is in Mormonism's fundamental teachings, it should be easy to prove, right? But, you can't.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
WRONG! Your blantant ambiguity lies in the idea we are all related to the man God of Mormonism as Spirit children, which would include both the Mormon Jesus and Lucifer. It is in Mormonism that it is taught, all angels, all humans, are literally the Sons and Daughters of god, begotten in the spirit world by a procreative act between God and His Heavenly wife or wives. There is no asterisk next to this point that would be followed by a presumed separate allocation of Jesus and Lucifer as being a part of this Spirit Family... so yes, the Mormon Jesus is the brother of Satan. If you don't believe me it is clearly defined in achieving a Celestial marriage in the LDS church manual page 129. Need further proof? In the book of Abraham it says, our father had said, "whom shall I send" book of Abraham chapter 3 verse 27 semicolon two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ who was then called jehovah, said here am I send me... satan, who was called lucifer, also came saying, behold, here I am, send me. I will be thy son and I will redeem all mankind that one Soul shall not be lost and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor book of Moses chapter 4 verse 1, which is also reiterated in the gospel principles written in 1997 page 17 through 18. BABOOOM🌋 I think you should remove that second m in the word Mormon
Yeah well your audience is much smaller than Bet-David's, and the audience can read the bible for discernment. Any small bit of research can easily disprove Mormonism. Repent and embrace true Christianity. People do not marry in heaven. Jesus SPECIFICALLY says this in Matthew 22:30.
@@rs72098 The LdS doesn't teach that you do. They marry everyone to each other on earth. Former members can dispute the LdS claims much better than never members.
I showed up at Pastor Knechtle's sermon this morning (11-24-2024) in New Canaan, Ct. My brother died about 5 and a half years ago. When we were kids together in Westport, Ct., my brother used to go over to Linda Blair's house and give guitar lessons to her older sister. Around the time, Linda was appearing in 'The Exorcist', my brother was recording a song about demonic possession with one of Tina Turner's backup singers (you can find this on youtube, btw). Then, years after that, my brother was invited over to Keith Richards' house (him and his guitar). You know, the guy who co-wrote the rock classic-'Sympathy For The Devil'. He lives near New Canaan in Ct. That reminds me: Many new moons ago, before I professed Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, I belonged to a synagogue with a man named (drum roll, please) Joseph Smith!
Many people in the comments saying he doesn't understand Mormon doctrine just read the clip bait title 😅 He didn't say Joe Smith is Satan's brother. And he's giving his opinion and reactions, true or not, hear him out. Speaking as a non LDS and non Evangelical Christian apologist
Great questions. Now get a real LDS expert to answer them correctly and speak for themselves. PBD loves LDS people. He knows there has to be more to it.
I cannot defend Joseph Smith or many aspects of LDS theology, but when so many Mormons (that I know personally) exemplify what a Christian should be -- in the name of Jesus Christ -- there is something going on there that defies explanation and doctrines.
@@johnholliday5874 being nice does not make someone a Christian.
Being nice doesn’t mean you’re saved. Some of the kinder Muslims I met were great folks - not saved.
I’ve met kind non Christians, not saved. Jesus said’ “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.”
And how do they do that when they don’t believe in the Christ of the Bible?
What does it take to “exemplify” being a Christian?
News flash: nothing except faith in Christ Jesus and His finished work on the cross can do that. All our “good works” are as filthy rags to God.
Mormons do what all other cults do: they try to put on a show cause they’re based in paganism.
🤷🏻♀️
^^^ look at their anger, their vitriol... interesting. Nowhere does the original comment even say the word "nice" I'll be praying for you guys.
@@johnholliday5874 like
The sex rituals? Yeah definitely Christ like! Members of LDS aren’t necessarily bad ppl and most think they are doing good, but they are deceived, and eventually get to go through rituals that were stolen from Freemasonry and Occult organizations. They have sex rituals!
Everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe and be who they want to be. But to call themselves Christian is ridiculous when they barely follow Christs teachings. Christ never said the Father was a regular man from another planet who became god of our planet and had two sons Jesus and Satan.
The cult was formed by Joseph Smith, a man who was a known con man and criminal who said only he was allowed to see what the angels told him. Those tablets that no one else could see, his wives that he forced members to give to him like property? Yeah how Christ like
If you want to know what a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes, you don't ask someone who isn't a member of that faith, you ask a faithful member.
I wouldn't go to a Catholic to find out what Baptists believe.
I don't need to talk with Lucifer to know Satan is evil. Nor do I need to speak with a Mormon / LDS member to know they are heretics who believe they will be a God of some planet when they die. No thank you!
There are many ex Mormons who have exposed what that satanic church believes.
Thank you for providing a textbook example of the genetic fallacy.
@@regpharvey thank you for providing a textbook example of a simpleton lame brain dismissive attitude and behavior syndrome.
@@regpharveyThis isn’t, you are more likely to get an accurate understanding of the Latter-saint faith when you ask a member rather than one who isn’t a member, especially if you were to ask one of the scholars such as Don Bradley and Robert Boylan. The main problem that I see with those who are not members of the Church is that often times they are using a definition from their own theology to explain a doctrine taught by our Church.
A Valuetaiment supporter here and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-days Saints! Please invite a member of the Church to have a respectful and proper conversation of what we belief.
I was thinking the same thing.
I recommend Blake Ostler
@@rdrzalexa or Jacob Hanen from Thoughtful Faith or Greg Matsen from Cwic Media. All of these, including Blake Ostler, would be a great choice.
@@dfull31Greg and Hansen are untrained. Ostler is the goat.
Everything that this man said is 100% true and factual about the latter-day Saints and the Mormon movement. If you do not believe that, Jesus Christ is the alpha and the Omega, the eternal God then you are by the very definition, not a Christian.
Invite an LDS leaders like David A Bednar, a former university president, or Dallin Oaks, a state supreme court Judge, etc to tell you about the LDS Theology. You will get clarity on what the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints believes in Christ, how he is the son of God, and the only way back to the Father is through him. And a bonus there will be no bashing of other faiths.
It would be amazing to see a church Apostle on the PBD Broadcast.
@@adrianw3985- I would LOVE to see an LDS “apostle” on this show with say Trent Horn, and James White and 2 or 3 other Christian apologists then talk.
If you aren’t a Trinitarian you are not a Christian
Respectfully, please read Joseph Smith's King Follet Discourse, and compare it to Isaiah 43.10,11
John 1.1, John 1.14
There will not be any more gods . There is only One God . Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Joseph was mistaken.
@@ragnardanneskajold1880 W
@@ragnardanneskajold1880 When did Jesus say He was trinitarian and you must believe that to follow Him? Please cite the scripture.
LDS guy here who LOVED PBD! I love this preacher. He’s awesome. Would appreciate to have an LDS perspective here because our faith is commonly taken out of context or just misunderstood. No disrespect. I love Christian’s of all stripes. We have our disagreements theologically but grateful when we can stand together against the radical satanic ideologies of our day. What we have in common is more important than differences. Much love.
Proud and grateful LDS here as well. Excellent statement and one that should be repeated. It is a shame when protestant pastors who intellectually and theologically misrepresent the Old and New Testaments for personal gain. This man's representation of the LDS faith is both inaccurate and intentionally misleading.
@@donquijote6030 if you don’t believe that Jesus is God. Then you quite frankly are not a Christian. You are something else. By definition, you are Not a Christian. Jesus is not an angel or a small god from the planet kolob who is brothers with Satan.
@@donquijote6030 "Lds" as in Latter day saints?..well there is No Human Alive today that is a Saint and if there is The World doesn't know about him or them,cuz it would be 1 or 2 people cuz a Saint cannot be a sinner and are you not sinner's?...
@@ghostwiththewind - The definition of a saint is where we disagree. No saint has ever been perfect in life, because no man or woman besides Christ himself has been perfect in life. A saint is one who strives every day to live their life according to the teachings of Jesus Christ and improving themselves and the lives of their neighbors.
@@ghostwiththewindsaint Paul was a sinner he wasn’t perfect so was saint matthew and the others they were human like us
As a Latter Day Saint I just want to say thanks to the kind words from those who aren’t members of our church. You guys are awesome.
Are you wearing your magic underwear? Any good sex rituals lately? So are you a god or will you become one after you leave this earth?
@jacktaylor3638 The truth very very often offends people. Any Christian is completely in the right for calling out the cults that twist, corrupt, change, add to and take away from the word of God. You are in a man-made, Satan inspired cult. I don't say that with malice. It is a simple truth. The doctrine you follow completely contradicts what Jesus and his apostles taught.
Angels can't disobey, there not made like that...so Satan wasn't an Angel 😇🤯
@KoachSavage Yes they can. The Scriptures repeatedly point out times where angels disobeyed and turned away from God. Where are you getting your information from? You just say angels can't obey so this means it's true?
@@KoachSavage And your proof for this is where exactly?
As an LDS member and a long time listener of your program, I urge you to have someone from the LDS community to set rhetoric record straight. This dude is not giving accurate information
Correct what he's saying. I was Mormon for 30 years and can't find a single thing he said that was false.
@@austinnajar - When you claim that you were "Mormon" for 30 years, perhaps you should include what kind of "Mormon" you were. Did you study the doctrine, pray, seek guidance and enlightenment? Did you attend the Temple and receive your endowments?
Far too often, those that claim to be a member for any amount of time only set foot in a church a few times. Hence, duration of "membership" is hardly a gauge of commitment or knowledge of the doctrines of Christ.
As for your challenge, the pastor claimed that Joseph Smith changed many of the doctrines of Christ, not the least of which was polygamy. He then glossed over one Old Testament prophet who had hundreds of wives by citing a verse from Genesis 2. However, he completely ignores the dozens of examples of Old Testament prophets that had a multitude of wives and dozens of children -- not the least of which was Jacob who became Israel, the father of the Twelve Tribes. The other big flaw in his "theology" is the criticism of the Biblical doctrine that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. If God the Father created all things, then would that make him the Father of Jesus and the fallen angel, Lucifer? Calvinism and neo-Platonism really did a number on the Protestants grasp of basic theology.
@@donquijote6030 I was born and raised in the church. I was a deacons quorum president, teachers quorum president, priest quorum assistant, served an honorable full time mission in San Antonio, TX, was endowed in the St Louis Temple, married in the Provo City Center temple, was a Ward mission leader twice, a young men’s president, and a first counselor in a bishopric.
I also have read the Book of Mormon 30+ times, the D&C at least 15 and the POGP at least 10. I’ve studied the Joseph Smith Papers in depth, the Gospel Topics Essays, and the entire JOD. So if you want to compare Mormon bona fides, I’ll put mine up against anyone.
And the idea that Jesus was created at all is a heresy known as Arianism and was denounced at the Council of Nicaea. So no, it doesn’t make sense at all since Jesus wasn’t created. In fact, Jesus is the creator of all things that were made which includes the angels of which Lucifer was one.
This idea that Gods, men, and angels are ontologically the same is completely unsupported by scripture. God is wholly different from all of His creations. And humans and angels are not the same type of being. They never have been
Mormons teach too much about Joseph smith and not enough about Jesus
@@weirdguymustache - That would be a comment from someone who has spent little to no time in an LDS Church on Sunday. In fact, the LDS speak of Christ so often that the church is named after him. What is the name of your church?
We are no strangers to this kind of stuff. This man is similar to those who persecuted Joseph those many years ago. Yet, like a stone cut out of a mountain without hands, the gospel will fill the earth and no unclean hand can stop it. People continue to fulfill prophecies set many years ago. My dear brothers and sisters whoever you are, may God bless during these troubled times. Ofa atu from your friendly neighborhood islander.
Amen
Amen brother
amen brother!
Just 🥰
Smith was never persecuted! Do you know who was? Jesus was! 11 of the 12 Disciples were! Followers of Christ were, still are, and will be!
As an LDS church member I have also been listening to a lot of other christians over the years. I have often listened to Cliffe Knechtle and this is not his best work. He is stuck on the a creed created ~300 years after the death of Christ. He clearly never did a deep dive into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He is also clearly a trinitarian which I find incorrect but a detail outside of what makes a christian a christian. Personally I never gave christianity any thought at all until I understood the Godhead : Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost. Since Christ prays to his Heavenly Father in the garden of Gethsemane and on the Cross I never could accept the idea of the Trinity personally. For years it was my stuck point and helped to keep me away from God and Christ. Even my favorite Christian author CS Lewis falls into the trinitarian camp as can be seen when you read Mere Christianity. On this matter I will wait to meet my Creator and let him explain further. If a slight difference (three persons in one energy body) vs (three actual beings who are one in purpose) keeps me from heaven then I would have never made it there anyway. I sure wish more Christians would focus on our similarities and the moral laws rather than bashing each other over the mysteries/obscure details. I believe it is Satan that works to divide christians in to groups and subgroups and have us all become obsessed with what it the most accurate version of doctrine. Personally I do not take any offense to what Cliffe says here because he is wrapped around a small detail. Many of his discussions that are biblically focused are good teaching moments, and he does a lot to bring people toward Christ.
@@michaeljeffords4010
Well spoken!
Very well spoken
The Trinity is a “detail outside of what makes a Christian a Christian?”
You are kidding right?
If one is not a Trinitarian one is not a Christian- period. Your church teaches of a “great apostasy” after the death of the last apostle; absolutely and unequivocally false! We have the writings of the church fathers beginning in the 1st century.
Your assertion that because the Nicene Creed was 290 years after Christs death means it’s untrue even though the Church in Council; profession of faith- yet your church shows up 1810 years later founded by a man from New York is the truth? Just stop….the absurdity is staggering
Got the year wrong. I guess you might have gotten everything else wrong. Research more! post comments on topics you don’t understand less!
@@ragnardanneskajold1880
Don’t get your Irish up! Catholics, Protestants………we are all brothers and sisters. Just be glad that Celtic paganism is not allowed to sacrifice humans anymore.
The biggest thing that is emphasized by The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints faith is a covenant making and keeping people, who find joy in Christ and his atonement.
Tell us you're a member of the Morg, without telling us you're a member of the Morg. The way you said the name of the church is so telling of being a part of the collective.
@@maxrees8445 And saying Jesus is not God and Satan is equal to Jesus and worshiping demons.
@@jeffreydavid6794 to believe in Jesus Christ and his atonement means to believe he is God, otherwise an eternal and infinite atonement could not be possible, neither a resurrection. Have a great day.
@@GrizBear63 I have no problem declaring my membership but my personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the covenants I've made with him are the most important thing.
I've covenants to always remember my Savior. To keep His commandments. And to be willing to take his name upon me. That's not including the temple covenants I've made in addition. Just as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
@maxrees8445 But that is not what Mormons believe. Mormons believe Jesus is Satan's brother. Not God. You have a great day.
Love how non latter day saints tell others what latter day saints believe.
I know! 😂
@@Irvingdector problem is... it's on the LDS website lol 😂😂😂 what did he say that was wrong?
We're capable of reading a book that is the basis of your beliefs. Name one thing he said that is not true about the LDS church? No problem with LDS, live in Utah and love it. Nothing but positive interactions with Mormons. But theologically, it is very difficult to say LDS and Christianity belong in the same boat.
@micahkagler3236 the D&C holds more information and the various journals. Not to mention, their website is a great place to find out this information.
Part of the issue, there has been a huge push to appear Christian, especially after the 2018 proclamation by President Nelson that they must drop the name Mormon as an identifier for themselves. Many young Mormons try and say, "We are Christians too!"...
I have been studying Mormonism for the past three years in my efforts to counter-witness to missionaries. It's amazing how much they try and make this work.
It is annoying. Especially when he doesn't even really understand the doctrines. I'm fine if he understands them and disagrees with them, but to misrepresent them is dumb.
He’s wrong. 1. Joesph Smith affirmed that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God. People make that leap in logic because *everyone* is a spiritual son and daughter of God-that would include Satan being a spiritual being too. Thats not crazy at all.
#2 Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities but one in power and purpose. Why would Christ pray to Himself on the cross or refer to God the Father several times over in the Bible? Because he is the literal Son of God not the exact same person.
#3 Polygamy occured because God commanded it for a small group of people. And it worked. Their population was saved entirely from the next generation that came from it. For the last hundred years or so they’ve been monogamous and are of two demographics that are above replacement levels.
4# This dude bashes the Islam for having different versions of the Quran that were destroyed but something similar occured to the Bible. I love my KJV but entire books are missing teachings from different denominations are totally different.
I’d love for PBD to have a LDS church leader to come on and explain the church’s beliefs.
It's just an offshoot cult
The last thin pbd needs is to invite a LDS on here. No, please
You have drunken the Kool-aid.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Sc rolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
God did not nor has ever endoresed polgamy
I’d love to see you interview an actual believer of the LDS faith. I think you would be surprised what we actually believe.
why should I take a religion that started with a false prophet “translating” non-existent languages through a hat seriously?
That adam is god?
Smith’s life choices, especially his practice of polygamy (some say with underage women), and other behaviors like forming a theocratic government in Nauvoo, Illinois I can’t trust smith
If you are a Christian the bible tells you to be ready with an answer for what you believe. And we are to share the gospel..so why not explain to me what you actually believe. I'd really like to know.
@@KnowingGodExplorers www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/64370_eng.pdf
LDS Christian here, half Iranian too! wow, a lot of us follow PBD, amazing!
Christ is King!
Asking a non member of the church about another church is like asking someone’s ex girlfriend about their character. There’s inherent bias and not even understanding the core doctrine of the church will always end in making your self look uneducated.
Well said!
Newnamenoah former lds and missionary ask him watch his endowment video
The most biased person to ask about a certain religion is a member of that specific religion…. Obviously…
So Joseph didn't use special stones in a hat and a witching rod?
@@karlh5099 That fits into OP's statement perfectly. Former LDS=Ex Girlfriend. . . Also just so you know. . . serving a mission doesn't equate to being a devout member. . . A LOT of people do so, because it's what they think others want for them just like anything else you have a wide spectrum of human experience in a large group like LDS missionaries.
I've never seen anyone cross examine Cliffe's arguments against the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints. What about Abraham? It was convenient to not bring up that polygamy. What about Lucifer referred to as a " son of the morning" that fell from heaven? If Satan was once an angel in heaven, wouldn't he be part of God's family? Obviously Satan is not in the family anymore.... I'd love to see Cliff have a respectful debate with a scholar from the church of Jesus Christ.
@jonathanolson8945 There is no place in the Bible that encourages polygamy. The Bible is a historical book. Just because it says something happened, does not mean it is saying it is good for that thing to have happened. Solomon having hundreds of wives, especially pagan wives, was his downfall. Abraham had children with 2 different women because he sinned and did not want to wait on God. Jacob had 2 wives because he was tricked by Laban. The Bible makes it very clear in the book of Genesis what God's plan is for marriage. One man and one woman. If you have not noticed, almost every single Old and New Testament Saint was a deeply flawed person and a sinner. Having more than 1 wife is a sin.
@@jeffreydavid6794then why so much hate on Joseph Smith. He is also a flawed prophet of God. That should not mean he is disregarded as a prophet.
@reagan-shayleeward7498 No, you are completely wrong. I say that not using my authority but the authority of the scriptures. Yes, every single prophet of God is flawed because every single prophet is a human which makes them a sinner. However, if a so called prophet is teaching doctrines that contradict the doctrine that Jesus and his apostles and saints taught, they are a false prophet. They are not a prophet of God. They are a prophet of demons. Joseph Smith was a person who was Influenced by demons who were telling him to change scripture and start his own cult. There are no more prophets today and there have not been since Jesus came 2000 years ago. Anyone who has come along since then telling us we need to believe things other than what the scriptures say, they are demonic. This is why the catholic church is demonic too. They change the word of God and add to it and say they have authority over what Jesus said. I am not hateful. I am stating truth. If you don't like it, I do not mean to hurt your feelings. But I will not tell people who are in satanic cults they are prophets when this is a lie.
@@jeffreydavid6794 - Polygamy was not encouraged by the LDS either, my friend. In fact, the Old Testament's treatment of polygamy is similar, if not identical, to the treatment of polygamy by the LDS faith. Not that I would expect the Protestants who spend their time attacking other religions rather than teaching why they are correct, to explain that doctrine to their adherents.
You’re totally wrong about polygamy. Pastor Cliff is completely wrong on this. He’s going to answer to God when it’s all said and done. So Abraham and Moses and David and Gideon and other Holy men of God were wrong? Where does God say polygamy is unlawful?
A non-mormon will NEVER give an accurate assessment of that church. The source of their propaganda is just protestant-derived caricatures. This was no exeption. Try asking a latter day saint about their church instead.
Joseph Smith was a fraud
It's really convenient to say that you must get information "from the horses mouth". You also eliminate ALL negative criticism of that faith. I wonder what reaction Protestants would get if they tried the same tactic. No dice. Either answer the criticism or bow out of the argument. You don't get to reframe it.
@@Daniel-vp2on Let me go ask my Atheistic friends about the accuracy and truthfulness of Christianity then. I mean, why bother going to the "horse's mouth" because you don't want to negate any negative criticism of Christianity.
@@Daniel-vp2on It's even more convenient to make up nonsense about people and then demand that they pretend it's legitimate. The criticisms have been addressed ad-nauseum in perpetuity for 200 years. At this point, there's no excuse to be as appallingly misinformed as Knechtle. His embarrassing ignorance is his own fault.
@@TimothyBerman it's not that you're going somewhere. Who are watching this clip came to this site to watch it? Didn't think so. This is an attempt to silence criticism, of which you're doing towards Christianity, which happens all the time. When have you heard a Christian say, "don't bother listening to their legitimate criticisms. Hear my answer framed the way I want it first."?
This is a very click bait title. I wouldn't call it bashing I would call it using recycled tropes. Cliffe does a lot of great work, and it is frustrating that he paints our faith in deliberately misleading and oversimplified ways.
He brings out good points. I'm not Mormon, but BOM is true. I've learned , do I serve God or do I serve myself? God allows us to see spiritual truths as we grow closer to him. The Bible and BOM are spiritual books, not temporal.
@@paulanix7561The book of Mormon?
@@emmanuellawyer8562 YES! The language of Lehi is the praise and worship to God. Nephi is humble and seeks God diligently and God says "blessed are you". The common theme is repentance and reconciliation with God. Please don't let the traditions of men keep you from recognizing God is always before you. Praise God!! He loves us so !!
Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies.
@@paulanix7561 I'm pretty sure the Book of Mormon says black people are black because of sin. Considering how Joseph Smith lived I would say he has more in common with Muhammad and Jesus.
I beg you to have an actual Mormon on the channel & let them explain our beliefs
Nothing will make Mormons mainstream Christian. That aside, this does not mean that Mormons do not follow a moral order.
What about the holy underwear?
@@mavericksolo8055 and this shows your iq
What did he say that was incorrect or atleast a misunderstanding?
Mormonism is ran by masons it’s a financial and religious scam
I have a general rule that serves me well. I don't go to McDonalds for their opinion on Burger King, and vice versa.
This guy giving his opinion on other people's beliefs just displays his own ignorance of those faiths, or worse, actively lying about their beliefs in order to prop up his own that don't bear scrutiny.
I’m not a communist, but I can easily explain why communism is crap. Piss poor argument bud.
@@Ghidorah_Stan64😂...no, it's on point. This is theology, not economic systems. He's not accurately portraying what other groups believe while pretending to be an expert in them. He's the very definition of going to someone's enemy to find out what they're like. You're only going to get distortions, deliberate or ignorant. Distortions all the same.
@@brentd273 Joseph Smith’s alternative version of Jesus and the gospels have no basis in any historical evidence, the early Christians and ancient Hebrews have always been monotheistic, Smith’s ridiculous claims of how certain races came to be should be enough to prove he was an idiot. You don’t need an expert theologian to disprove Mormonism, you just need a basic high school history teacher to do it 😂
@@Ghidorah_Stan64you just did what ol' mate in the video did.
Soon as you cross over from 'I believe x' into 'they believe y' you enter into shaky ground. You'd want to be 100% on the money when representing someone else's belief structure and theology. Which neither that guy or you have been. Islam included.
It's funny how catholics, Muslims, Mormons always accuse people of lying about their beliefs when people are quoting directly from their religious writings. You can read something directly from the demonic writings of Joseph Smith to a Mormon and they would say that's not what mormonism teaches.
LDS return missionary here. Although yes we do believe as the Bible teaches that Mary had other children after giving birth to Christ, that were fathered by Joseph. We believe that Jesus however is her only son who was father by God in heaven. He is literally the only begotten of the father in the flesh.
We also believe that the adversary, Satan, or the son of the morning will never come to this earth to receive a body of his own as Jesus did. Joseph Smith was clear on this, and this doctrine has never changed, therefore leaving it absolutely impossible for Jesus to be brothers with Lucifer in the flesh. I encourage you to speak to an actual member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to avoid this kind of distraction from the truth.
Our Core message is one of The Redeemer of all man kind. Jesus Christ who came to the world to save it. Prophets, apostles, and Scripture testify of Jesus, but we worship none of these men, or scriptures. Only our Father in Heaven who gave his only begotten Son that whosever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God would not have given a new divine revelation on how to conduct life 2000 years after Jesus. He didn't do that even with the Jews. Jesus is our revelation. It is appointed everyman once to die then the judgement. No praying for the dead. All of us need Jesus' sacrifice for our sin. That's the story. Please look into how your founder had grown up in an area where lots of paganist masonic stuff was going on. Spirit channeling is a real thing and they can become very convincing... I'm speaking from experience that you can hold full on conversations with demons while believing they are angels. As well, there are NO archeological findings for Christians coming to the America's. Your founder was a demon channeler like Mohammed, like I used to be.
If you believe in Jesus as the Redeemer and Messiah, shouldn't you worship Him? As Christians we don't worship the apostles or scriptures either, but we worship Jesus. He is the Christ. He is God. He is King.
@ exactly my point 100% 👏🏼👏🏼 those other things you mentioned are just means to reach us of Christ. Not an end in and of themselves. Christ made this abundantly clear when speaking to the Pharisees
You guys still view Jesus as a white man, hand out the cards when all the historians agree he wasn't white at all. So if the image of Jesus that yall handout is wrong from the get go look at everything else with a grain of salt. Every Mormon I've met, is like every single religious zealot I've ever met. Yall have different tiers of heaven, you don't belive that Jesus was god rather a son. Reaffirming your hierarchy through male versus female. Ive not seen Mormons on missions cleaning up trash, taking thier tshirts off thier back for those down trodden. You walk around in white shirts and loafers like car salesman, and anytime someone points out intellectual facts yall cave.
Ive yet to see a Mormon missionary do anything but preach, all words and no action.
@@casval-pj5tb Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with some christians from my faith. We’re taught to love one another. I’ve also seen bad examples of Christianity from both inside and outside of my faith as well. It doesn’t make Christ any less my Savior, my Redeemer, and him who I study and strive to be like.
Also we don’t say he’s the son of God, the Bible does. God himself does. Matthew 17:5
LDS here. Proud to see so many other LDS supporters of the PBD podcast. Can't fault a guy for his misunderstandings of our religion any more than I would fault myself of my misunderstandings of theirs. Peace and Love to all people of all sincere religions.
Well said
Just curious, what did he say that was false or a misunderstanding?
@@Al-cy7wga Mormon will never get down the facts of what he may have miss represented because there isn’t one lie he told. He said exactly what Mormons believe straight from Joseph Smiths mouth. They just don’t like the fact that it came from a non member….
@Al-cy7wg where would you like to start? For one, right out the gate, he ignored half of the torah in an attempt to make polygamy seem anti biblical. Right out of the gate he just ignored critical aspects of the OT story. I love Cliff. I love the work he does. But that was some serious biblical errors he performed there towards the LDS faith. You can believe in their faith or not, that doesnt change the numerous times in the Bible that polygamy is not only practiced, but condoned by God.
@@TheSchoolofTrading I’m sorry, but there is nothing in the new testimant that permits polygamy. Secondly, if your scripture reading is based off of the Old Testament, then why are you not Jewish because people who believe in the Old Testament do not observe Jesus as our Messiah……once again, you’re in complete conflict of your own religion if you believe in the New Testament. Jesus praises marriage between one man and one woman. Not to mention the Bible does not praise “plural gods” you should know the Bible preaches there is “ONLY ONE GOD” and the whole trilogy “father, son and the whole spirit” there are plenty of passages in the Bible warning us about “false profits” and Joseph Smith is a false profit….
Im LDS. I had no idea so many of us followed PBD.
Why wouldn't we. We search for truth and light no matter where it comes from. But this man is not speaking it when it comes to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
@@corrystucki3874Truth is Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies.
PBD is hard not to like, and I’d honestly say the same thing about Cliff. Cliff may not appreciate everything I believe but I think of Luke 9:49-50. He honestly seems like a righteous dude.
@@corrystucki3874 I'm LDS and I once thought the way you do. When I did research and looked at actual reality, the fact is Joseph Smith did Indeed make up all this stuff -- including the whole claim Polygamy was commanded by God. _ESPECIALLY_ his claim polygamy was commanded by God! That alone should wake you up and help you realize Joseph Smith follows the pattern of the typical Cult Leader. He starts sleeping with all the women among his followers -- even the married women who are married to men who are his faithful followers. (you haven't read the Church Essay on "Plural Marriage" have you? It's on the Church website)
Joseph Smith had all the life behaviors of the typical Psychopath. (the vast majority of psychopaths are not killers, but deceivers; they're Con Artists). There is no doubt at all that Joseph Smith was a psychopath. He had no conscience. If you go back in History and only refer to original documents, you can see, for example, how Joseph Smith gradually developed his religion. Even the name of the Church was something that evolved. He started out calling it the "Church of Christ." Next it was the "Church of the Latter-day Saints" and then "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Do you really think if GOD had revealed the name of the Church he would need to change his mind so many times?
Oh, and by the way, the current version of "The Doctrine and Covenants" has in it CHANGED "revelations" from God. If you look at the earliest version of the "revelations" (various sections of the D&C) as contained in the original "Book of Commandments" (you can find it online as a pdf) you can find the original version of the revelations. Joseph Smith changed them over time as his version of his created religion changed. So he "put into God's mouth" totally different words.
Joseph Smith was, in reality, an evil man. Psychopaths don't look evil. They're out to Con you, so they're charming, folksy, and confident. Joseph Smith also was not "lacking in education" as the church wants us to believe. Hyrum went to Dartmouth and came home daily and tutored his younger siblings -- including Joseph Smith. His training included Oration.
Haven't you read the CES Letter? How about the SEC Report? Just do an internet search for "SEC Ensign Peak."
@@corrystucki3874 @corrystucki3874 I'm LDS and I once thought the way you do. When I did research and looked at actual reality, the fact is Joseph Smith did Indeed make up all this stuff -- including the whole claim Polygamy was commanded by God. _ESPECIALLY_ his claim polygamy was commanded by God! That alone should wake you up and help you realize Joseph Smith follows the pattern of the typical Cult Leader. He starts sleeping with all the women among his followers -- even the married women who are married to men who are his faithful followers. (you haven't read the Church Essay on "Plural Marriage" have you? It's on the Church website).
Joseph Smith had all the life behaviors of the typical Psychopath. (the vast majority of psychopaths are not killers, but deceivers; they're Con Artists). There is no doubt at all that Joseph Smith was a psychopath. He had no conscience. If you go back in History and only refer to original documents, you can see, for example, how Joseph Smith gradually developed his religion. Even the name of the Church was something that evolved. He started out calling it the "Church of Christ." Next it was the "Church of the Latter-day Saints" and then "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Do you really think if GOD had revealed the name of the Church he would need to change his mind so many times?
Oh, and by the way, the current version of "The Doctrine and Covenants" has in it CHANGED "revelations" from God. If you look at the earliest version of the "revelations" (various sections of the D&C) as contained in the original "Book of Commandments" (you can find it online as a pdf) you can find the original version of the revelations. Joseph Smith changed them over time as his version of his created religion changed. So he "put into God's mouth" totally different words.
Joseph Smith was, in reality, an evil man. Psychopaths don't look evil. They're out to Con you, so they're charming, folksy, and confident. Joseph Smith also was not "lacking in education" as the church wants us to believe. Hyrum went to Dartmouth and came home daily and tutored his younger siblings -- including Joseph Smith. His training included Oration.
Haven't you read the CES Letter? How about the SEC Report? Just do an internet search for "SEC Ensign Peak."
PBD please have an Apostle of the LDS church on your podcast. Let them speak to their beliefs
Why? This is a Christian podcast, nor a Mormon one.
Can't be an Apostle. There were 12 in the time of Christ. That's it.
That's a lot of hate from someone who doesn't even know what we believe or stand for. The lds church has done more good in the world than most churches combined, but we still get called Satan. Doesn't matter though. We follow christ, and people hated him too.
Well stated, my friend. Stand for all that is good and virtuous, and you will stand with Christ.
🔥🔥🔥🔥💯
Lol as a agnostic LDS, Catholic,prots ,all of y'all are a funny bunch, the persecution complex is common in all though
Why would you interpret what he said as hate? Very strong word for someone who disagrees with the lds church.
He is doing a difficult thing for most people, telling truth even though it is offensive to some.
You disagree with him, I'm sure you don't hate him.
@@ryanbernhardt619 - Because it is derived of hatred...and old and bitter hatred. All Protestant religions, and there are many, believe that they can prove that they are right by attempting to tear down everyone around them. That is the epitome of hate.
PBD is the goat! Love his work! I’m a member of the “Mormon” Church and I don’t think Cliff represented our religion very well. Would love to see an interview with a member to clarify some of the points Cliff made.
why should I take a religion that started with a false prophet “translating” non-existent languages through a hat seriously?
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
youtube.com/@apologeticswithprestonperr4060?si=qb_-vbXaombX0mfQ
Mormons call everybody their “brothers and sisters” just an FYI…
So do Muslims and numerous cultures do around the world. What’s your point.
@@aaronraju8254I think he was referring to Christ and Lucifer being “brothers”.
Latter-day Saints believe that there is a Heavenly Father who is a separate being from Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Only Begotten in the Flesh and is literally (not figuratively) the Son of God…. They believe in God the Father and God the Son as being One in purpose but separate in personage (John 17).
But they also believe that ALL of mankind are spirit sons and daughters of God. That ALL spirits were created by God. And one of those spirits was Lucifer.
Logically, it checks out.
@@danielmartarano7251but this is false teaching. A spirit is not the same as the Son of God, Lord Jesus Christ. Lucifer is a fallen angel.
@@ErinAbou I agree… my spirit is different from Lucifer’s, too. Christ has all the glory and power of God the Father. Lucifer has the exact opposite. But, they both have a spirit that came from the same Creator. (Christ has both spirit and body-a perfect resurrected body, just like God the Father… but Lucifer will never have a physical body).
"Mormonism: A Challenging Conversion
For those born into the faith, Mormonism is often a deeply ingrained part of their identity. However, for individuals from mainstream Christianity, embracing Mormonism can be a difficult and complex process.
Studying Mormon doctrine reveals contradictions with traditional Christian teachings, making it challenging to accept. The core of Mormonism relies on accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet and the Book of Mormon as divine scripture.
To overcome doubts, potential converts are encouraged to pray for confirmation, seeking a spiritual feeling or "testimony" that the Book of Mormon is true. This approach can be unsettling, especially considering the unconventional origins of the faith.
Joseph Smith claimed an angel took the golden plates, which he translated into the Book of Mormon. This narrative raises questions and skepticism for many.
The conversion process requires significant faith and often involves:
1. Overcoming contradictions with mainstream Christianity
2. Embracing Joseph Smith's prophetic claims
3. Accepting the Book of Mormon's divine origin
4. Trusting personal spiritual experiences over rational inquiry
This journey can be daunting, especially for those accustomed to more traditional Christian teachings."
Or, if you'd like a more concise version:
"Mormonism's Unique Challenges
As a mainstream Christian, embracing Mormonism can be tough due to:
1. Contradictions with traditional teachings
2. Joseph Smith's prophetic claims
3. Book of Mormon's unconventional origins
4. Relying on prayer for confirmation
Born-and-raised Mormons may find it harder to question their faith, but outsiders face a more complex conversion process."
Mormonism teaches that men can become a god of their own planet.
Hmm, can you give a reference for that?
You cannot become a God. God himself says he does not even know of any other God. That is the problem many people have with this religion. That and the idea that a murderous person who took teenage brides is going to judge what level of heaven I am going to.
Cliff claims to have "Mormon" friends and then throws them under the bus, but is to scared to speak ill of Islam in front of Patrick.
Patrick is NOT a muslim. You do know that don't you?
Ummm... Patrick is a Christian
@@katscully Yeah but he's still an Arab, which means he still has Muslim friends somewhere to watch this show and by proxy (relation) he doesn't wanna offend them on behalf of Patrick.
@@greasy8394 talk about reaching. This is absurd.
@@katscully Of course. That's why I subscribed to his channel
PBD- not a good idea to have someone fundamentally opposed to certain religions be the one to explain them to you. Have a rep from each one explain the why. This guy presents himself as an expert when he does is bash his competition-
Please interview a LDS person sometime!
I sincerely believe polygamy was an invention of Brigham Young after the murder of Joseph Smith. Joseph was on record rebuking his followers who started practicing it. I would consider myself a "non-denominational Mormon" at this point as I no longer follow the LDS church but do believe in the teachings of Joseph Smith.
As far as Jesus and Lucifer being brothers.... This comes from the belief that Jesus is the son of God and God created all including Satan who rebelled. Satan has no power to create therefor God created him. God's own son (flesh by Mary and deity by God) Jesus Christ is our Savior. He was baptized and the voice of God said "this is my son in whom I'm well pleased." I Don't know how or why people believe this is the same person. God testifying of Jesus and Jesus testifying of his father.
@@JonJGuev91😮
*Mormon
@@JonJGuev91 What do they lie about?
@@wyattsmith2155 Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies.
islam without lies can not exist.
Neither can Judaism. It's based on inversion of all that is good & natural.
@@katscully
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
It's mainly because of the archeology, "friendly" writers, and "hostile" writers mentioned above that the Jesus Seminar, who are PhD level ashiest/agnostics who study Christ and the Bible, concluded that Jesus really lived in Judea 2,000 years ago, was known as a miracle workers, died on the cross under Pilate, and that his disciples really believed they had seen him risen from the dead.
The fact that there are contradictions between manuscripts is often sited as proof against trusting scripture, when it actually does the opposite. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
There is also all the undisigned coincidence between not only the four Gospels, but the rest of the New and Old Testaments too.
Matthew 2:22 talks about Joseph not wanting to return to Judea after fleeing to Egypt because Archelaus was ruling. That's all the info on that the Bible gives. Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us about the things Archelaus did and how evil he was. Put these two peices of evidence together, we get the full picture.
This sort of thing happens through the text with the seemingly useless details matching up perfectly with extra Biblical sources, lending to the credibility of the text.
The Apostles willingness to be killed not for saying they believed Jesus had risen, but they knew he had risen, because they saw him.
If the tomb wasn't empty, they would've paraded the body around to stomp out any idea of Jesus being ressurrected, but Christianty spread because there was no body in the tomb.
If someone stole the body, why were nearly all the Apostles willing to be killed for saying they'd seen Jesus risen? They were thousands of miles away from one another before phones and the internet and were being threaten, tortured, and murdered for their claim. Not one "broke" and said it was a lie to save themselves.
It's because of the evidence that I believe in Jesus.
@@trentitybrehm5105 Beautifully stated but what does this have to do with what I wrote?
Complete nonsense, Islam is most fastest growing religion in conversation because it makes more sense whereas other religions do not make sense and they either follow their desires or it’s been corrupted
Lol keep wishing pagan - you literally worship a demi god and that by definition is a pagan 😂. Islam is the only monotheistic faith out there, with the most elaborate, strictest definition of who and what God is that no other faith can match.
Cliff needs to actually debate an informed Latter day Saint. I know a few who would be willing.
I have yet to see one. Do they have lectures?
Who? Lol. How can you be competent with lies and fairytales?
@@limitlesswinning984 plenty. Try Scriptural Mormonism UA-cam channel and blog, Scripture Central, Book of Mormon Central, LDS Truth Claims, Doctrine and Covenants Central, Thoughtful Faith, FAIR LDS, Interpreter Foundation.
@@limitlesswinning984yeah. Try Scriptural Mormonism
@@limitlesswinning984 there's plenty more, but UA-cam keeps deleting my comment if I try to create a long list.
If you’re going to bring believers of Christ onto the channel make sure you bring a good one. This guy is completely uninformed
the average mormon could debate this guy and win easily. I don't think they'd do it because he is just stuck in his head.
Cliffe has been debating athiests for over 40 years he is not that well imformed on other denominations because he tries to just stick with the bible or sometimes oradox so cliffe is very smart but he has not gotten deep into other denomiation only hit the surface, now I don't know you but try preaching the gospel for over 40 years to athiests and planting seed but people imply you a bad christian.
Cliffe has most likely thought he was going to be asked things relating to athiestm because thats who cliffe has been preaching too for the last 40 years
@@GalaxyCatPlays Yes, He is very smart. Why would a very smart man skilled and seasoned in debating with athiests think he would be prepared to debate an area of religion that he hasn't even read or diligently studied?
@@nanizon The Topic came up I guess. Its a whole hour podcast so i'd suggest you watch it :)
The idea of Satan and Jesus both being spirit children of God the Father and yet on completely different spiritual levels is not as weird as Cliff makes it out to be. This heavenly pattern is something we see everywhere here on earth. Children born to the same parents can take completely different paths and yet they come from the same genetics and are raised in similar environments. We are all spirit children of God the Father. We all lived as spirits before this life. We had the ability to make choices. Jesus made all the correct choices and became a God in his own right. Satan, on the other hand, made all the wrong choices and rebelled against God the Father.
It’s really THAT SIMPLE. 😊
@@blakesurerus7272
2 Corinthians 11:
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
To venerate fiction is blasphemy.
2 Corinthians 11:
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
@@kristencook4262blasphemy
Cap why can’t Satan be a god too he literally wanted the best for all of us 😊
This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Why not get someone who actually belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ on the show instead of asking a guy who clearly doesn’t understand their beliefs?
Why not get an actual historian instead of a cult member lol
@@Bc232klm Look, if you’re not a believer in Christ and have no desire to investigate what Christianity is then fine. I’m not here to have that debate. I’m just here to point out that the stuff this guy is saying is both factually false or misrepresented.
why should I take a religion that started with a false prophet “translating” non-existent languages through a hat seriously?
I cannot listen to a man speak about the LDS church if he’s never read the BOM, because he’s immediately coming from a place of ignorance. The BOM is the word of God and compliments the Bible 💯
he doesnt need to. the bom is not the word of God. the Bible is, and joseph smith taught lies about Jesus and gave false propheicies, which disqualify him as any kind of prophet, and show he was a false prophet. turn to the Jesus of the Bible and away from that cult.
Where did the events in the Book of Mormon take place. America, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Panama?
@@brianm2238 from a man who read the BOM, right? No one can claim to have a true knowledge of something untill they have truly studied it because all their opinions are based on heresay. You really can't offer valid evidence to your claims. I understand that it can be scary to learn about something we are not used to especially when we have been prejudiced against it but anyone claiming to have God's Holy Spirit has the ultimate witness and if we are not blocking him with our fear and hate, we can know for ourselves with a testimony vs an opinionwithout fact basis. This principle is true applied in attaining all knowledge that God reveals to us.
@@nanizon Did Joseph Smith give false prophecies?
And what's even more frustrating is the fact that they aren't even willing to give the book a chance. When someone says that the Book of Mormon is Satanic and of the devil, you can guarantee they haven't read it.
And it's almost as if they're afraid that the church ends up actually being true. If you have a strong enough testimony and a clear enough mind, the fiery darts of the adversary will have no effect on you. When I was attempting to cook up a batch of soap on our porch a while back, I had left the oily mixture simmering on our propane stove(I find that the hot process is easier and faster) to try and get it to the right consistency, it caught fire. The flames were at least two feet high, and my father ran inside to get baking soda. The only issue is that when he poured it on the burning oil, it only made the flames grow higher, reaching even further and practically licking the gutter.
If we have a strong enough faith and a deep enough of a love for God, what would normally be seen as anti and "knife in the coffin" arguments only drive us deeper into what we already know. I don't have the strongest testimony as of late, but one of the reasons I enjoy reading and going through anti content is because of the plain fact that it hypes me up about my religion. All of these atis online hating on the church just reaffirm me of my testimony rather than lead me away from it.
The only question is if it does the same for them. Why do they hate, despise, and even fear a simple book "written" by an uneducated farm boy if they seek after truth. They have the Bible as their sole scipture, what need they to fear? If they truly know the truth, then why do they despise and destroy what they *know* to be incorrect. Not many of them show a lot of compassion towards the church and the BoM. I think the answer is simple. They are afraid. They don't want to give up the lease that their religion offers. They don't want to investigate what they fear might be true. I don't mean to offend anybody, but it seems that this is the case.
Be fair and have an actual Mormon on. Y’all always have other ppl on to talk about us, but never have one of us on
To be proven incorrect again?
Go away! Forever!
because you're in a cult.
@@Susieq26754 We don't blame you for wanting us to go away. At least you aren't apathetic. In some way you must think or feel we represent something you dislike. Remember love and hate is just one step apart from each other. Our church is filled with folks who had a change of heart. Read the Book of Mormon, your heart will change also.
LDS is a cult! The Bible does not support the LDS you need to make another book to support your views just like every pseudo Christian cults
Sounds like PBD knows more than his guest about the Latter-day Saints. The ignorance is nauseating and begs for a guest offering an informed view, preferably an actual member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!
Where did the events in the Book of Mormon take place. Where is the city of Zaramehla?
@@chriseasterly5142 its located in Wonderland.
What did his guest get wrong? All you have to do is read LDS doctrine and you’ll see how ridiculous the LDS bullshit fantasy is.
@chriseasterly5142 thats a good point, there is little to no archeological evidence for things described in the book of mormon. The nephites supposedly had metal tools, weapons, and armor, as well as horses and charriots. None of which showed up until the europeans arrived long after the events of the book.
So he feels comfortable attacking Mormanism but is too much if a coward to attack Islam, he is scared of Blasphemy laws.
Did you watch the whole video?
Both are of satan
😂 literally as soon as he was done bashing mormonism he started bashing Islam. They are both satanic cults.
He's talked about Islam a lot and stating facts isn't attacking.
Islam and Mormonism are low-hanging fruit, it takes Bawls to criticize Judaism.
I am a recent follower of this channel, as well as a recent reformed democrat to independent to republican, former “Never Trumper” who plans to vote for him this time, in large part because of this podcast. My heart literally dropped when I saw this and I felt so gutted. As a member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, AKA “Mormons” It is so exhausting to have our purpose, culture and religious beliefs constantly mischaracterized and misrepresented by so called “experts” or “authority” figures. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PBD, do better. We have plenty of wonderful members who could give you better and more accurate information about what we TRULY believe, as well as context and a more accurate frames of reference. What I have liked about this channel (up to now) is the impression you and your companions have given that you genuinely desire the pursuit of truth. That guy did not give that to you. I’m actually dreading seeing what more there is to this interview. I agree with what others have said, if you really want to know and understand us, please actually include one of us in the conversation.
100% and this is coming from someone that is not Mormon.
It’s because it’s not historically or theologically accurate. Do some research on this. Part of the LDS problems is that you defend things which are not taught in the Bible, the Old and New Testaments. I hope this helps, as I am not trying to offend anyone, just giving an honest critique.
As an LDS member I’m disappointed. Not you best work from a long shot.
@@ErinAbou Not everything is taught in the Bible. The Bible itself that only a FRACTION of what Jesus taught is included in the Bible. (John 21:25)
Maybe ask a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints what they believe.... not an apologist who doesn't know the old testament and realize how important it is.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet. Study Joseph's own words, not the lies people have told about them. Just because someone wrote something down 150 years ago doesn't automatically make it true. Look at what the main stream media wrotes down today. I hope people don't take that as face value as truth in 150 years. Study Joseph's own words with an open mind and you'll find value and truth.
"When they are learned they think they are wise, and harken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not." -2 Nephi 2:28
He was a Mason not a prophet of God! Look it up
Catholics ARE Christians. Catholicism and orthodoxy are the original Christian denominations, of the apostolic succession.
Agree
I am a member of the LDS Church and I totally agree and support you in your declaration. Catholics love Jesus and Jesus loves Catholics.
Amen 🙏🏻
The Vatican was infiltrated and has been throughout history. That is why there are Protestant Churches. We are talking about very evil activities the Catholic Church has engaged in and continues to engage in including raping the children of its members.
Catholics worship Mary.
Jesus said very clearly that HE is the only mediator between man and God.
Patrick, please invite renowned LDS Blake Ostler on for a segment of your show to clarify and refute Cliffe. Paul and Peter corrected each other, so don’t take Cliffe as the ultimate authority on a religion when the Bible prophets were even often wrong and in need of correction
Having a structured Christian life, as Mormons do, is not the same thing as being a Pharisee.
To venerate fiction is blasphemy.
2 Corinthians 11:
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
To venerate fiction is blasphemy.
2 Corinthians 11:
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
12¶But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
@@JozeemossYour reply has nothing to do with his comment. Not even addressing the bible bashing…
The Pharisee were very well structured! Mormons are man made doctrine and man made laws. Modern day Pharisee!
He was merely saying how structure isn't the be all end all to loving God. Why are there so many Mormons with hurt feelings on here?
Please, I plead, if you want to be intellectually honest, start with truly UNDERSTANDING the concept. The teaching is that WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD. We are ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS. And @valuetainment PBD, it is 10% any extra is optional charity.
(My caps aren't shouting, I just can't use italics or underlines for emphasis, apologies)
@@kathynaylor4357 I guess you would be lying when you say Heavenly Father then...
actually none of us begin as children of God, but of wrath. Only when the Holy Spirit has drawn us and we respond in repentance and faith do we become his children. "among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind." Ephesians 2.
@@edmarlow5580 great view of non-christians
To be fair you should have someone on to discuss the LDS theology. His remarks are regarding the two topics he decided to opine on were vapid.
Feel free to debunk what he said
Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies.
Why don’t you respond with a rebuttal to the points he brought up instead of just being frustrated?
@@davidpoole409 You're on UA-cam, if you can't do a quick search and find solid info yourself, you don't care enough to truly process and accept the information.
@@pewtorye I have and frankly there is almost NO content with LDS debating Christians. Seems they avoid debates. Plenty of Christians out there evangelizing and debating the soundness of their faith.
Being a healthy jack mormon lol… people really twist the idea of satan and Jesus being brothers.
Same lol
On that subject, It is clear that Father children are His children in his family and therefore siblings including Lucifer. But it is not so clear that satan is still a member of God's family as perdition is to destroy and satan is cut off from life and heaven to which the rest of God's children will be taken except the sons of perdition. Technically, are jesus and satan still brothers? Please include scripture sources in your reply. thank you.
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
Zero push back from a blatant antiMormon? Bad form, PBD. Rookie podcast. Get Ward Radio or Jacob Hansen on there.
PBD Should have a conversation with Glenn Beck about LDS Beliefs and his conversation.
Are you muslim
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@@trentitybrehm5105
By flesh and blood it is not revealed unto thee, but by the Father which is in heaven.
They're verses are diametrically opposed to much of Christianity. I honestly wonder if Joseph ever read the entire bible. An example is Jesus SPECIFICALLY said that people don't marry or give into marriage in heaven, that we are like angels. This is opposed to Mormonism who claim we marry in heaven. The book of Galatians 1:8 warns about angels who preach false gospels to people. Both Islam and Mormonism have angels that speak different gospels in them.
Didn’t realize Valuetainment had resorted to religion bashing and misrepresentation. Unfortunately will be the last video I watch unless there’s some sort of reconciliation. Have loved the channel up until now. If we don’t start sticking together and looking for the best in each other, we’re toast.
Bye
have you actually watched PBD? PBD has offered several shows of similar content offering the opportunity for various religious leaders to speak and make their point.
I do actually. Frequently - checking my history just now, looks like 10-15 videos a day. I may have been unclear at what specifically I take issue with. It’s not the varying views at all. This one straight, a little too far, in my opinion, into bashing and misrepresentation. If one can’t promote one’s religious views without bashing others’ through willful misrepresentation, then you’re probably doing it wrong.
Agree 🤍
@@revdavidpeters 🙄 grow up.
Like this if you think Pat should bring on a Mormon scholar to properly respond to this disinformation
(Blake Ostler would be best, terryl givens, Patrick Mason, or an actual church leader would be good)
@@louccideavon7116 David Alexander is an 47-year Evangelical he started a UA-cam channel the moment he began meeting with the LDS missionaries. His perspective on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is absolutely amazing . I would love to see an interview with him and PBD
Why? This is a Christian podcast, not a Mormon one.
@@scott-yi4sfhe actually was part of a different cult, known as Twelve Tribes. He was never an Evangelical Protestant Christian. He’s a fraud.
Mormon scholar, that sounds like an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard of one.
@@ErinAbou not really, Mormons have a rich intellectual tradition. I agree that there are a lot of hive mind, naive followers, but there is a significant part of their religion that are extremely smart. Let's have good faith discussions. You can't try and compare religions of your best versus someone else's worst as a serious argument. Mormon scholars are extremely bright. You should have nothing to be afraid of to let one on and challenge the BS of Cliffe
I’m a convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Have been for 20 years now. Before that I went to many churches. Among many things that stood out to me about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is that not only was there no bashing of other faiths but rather a love and respect for them. Whereas in the other faiths I attended they spoke much evil about the “mormons”. In the very beginning when I began to criticize my previous faith and the one I was born into (Catholic) I was lovingly corrected by the missionaries and told that we love and respect all other religions. This has been the same message I have received all these years later and I share it with others. I love all my Christian brothers and sisters. We have so much more in common than we have differences. ❤️
This guy at a Coke soda plant while drinking a Coke... "So... What do ya think about Pepsi?"
😂
So you’re saying that Joseph Smith didn’t have plural wives or you don’t believe that Jesus or brothers with Lucifer? That’s exactly what Mormons believe
Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies.
@@Jozeemoss “Yeah well, that’s like your opinion man”
@@georgewashington1414
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
I am a Non-denominational Christian who seeks God daily, and participates in a number of things on a weekly basis, as God leads me: prayer, Bible study, fasting, giving to those in need (among others). I have structure, even though I do not identify as Catholic (which I moved away from over 2 decades ago).
Yikes
More people just need to say Pentecostal.
Where's your church?
😂 structure from non denomination 😂 you are lost
@Converse-o4d Jesus is not a religion. He is all about relationship with Him. According to His Word, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.. According to His Word, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
1:13 Abraham, Jacob, Moses were all polygamists. God never condemned them for that. You need to read the Old Testament again, Cliff.
Think you need to read the Old Testament again. Moses was not a polygamist. Also, just because they did it, doesn’t make it right and it goes against God’s word many times. For example, why would biblically structured elders of the church need to be “…the husband to one wife..”? (1 Tim 3:2)
@@klutz8019 OK, I read the Old Testament again. Just like you said... and guess what I found, sweetheart! Exodus 2:21 Moses marries Zipporah, and Numbers 12:1 Moses marries an Ethiopian woman. (This must be so embarrassing for you. We all see clearly now why your name is klutz) Please show me where God condemned any of them for polygamy. Remember, you cannot add your opionin to the Bible - Revelation 22:18.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@@trentitybrehm5105 You misquoted Alma 7:10! That's not what it says. If you have to misquote to be right, then you haven't a leg to stand on.
@@BlaineHeggie Other guy responded to you too yk?
There are millions of LDS church members in the U.S. You can find one to talk to on your show. David Snell, Jacob Hansen, Cardon Ellis, or even church leadership. This guys take on it is biased and not completely accurate
@@patpatterson9719 or he can just have one on to talk about their faith and basic beliefs.
Tell me what he said that was wrong? I live in the middle of Mormonism. Married an now ex -Mormon, she was a missionary. I have studied Mormonism for over 30 years. He only barely scratching the surface of what is wrong with Mormonism as compared to Biblical Christianity.
Cliffe is absolutely 💯 percent right he said nothing false about LDS
What did he say that was wrong about LdS beliefs?
I would not trust one of them since they can't even do their own research to realize how much Joseph Smith lied and how so very little LDS theology matches up to the original Orthodox Church or even that of the temple ceremonies of the Apostles. Absolute heresy with no historical or archeological evidence to back up the Book of Mormon or any of the teachings of the church. Take some time to do your research and stop being a sheep following the words of a wolf.
For a guy that's pissed at Joseph Smith for messing with his version of Christianity. His love for the non biblical idea of the Trinity that Christ himself never taught is kinda hypocritical
The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit speak to each other and about each other like they are separate people.
There are passages where God speaks in the first person in the Old Testament, and Jesus will quote these in the first person about himself. He will claim things that are titles of God alone about himself and tells us he can not only hear our prayers but has the ability to answer them too.
Psalm 95:7 - for he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care. Today, if only you would hear his voice,
Isaiah 43:13 - Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?”
Deuteronomy 32:29 - “See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Two of these are God speaking in the first person, one about God.
John 10:27-30 Jesus speaking, - 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
It continues to 33 with the Jewish audience picking up stones to kill Jesus, he asks for what good works do you stone me, and they say not for good works, but you being a man make yourself out to be God.
John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
John 5:19-23 Jesus said that he does everything exactly as he see the Father does and does everything the Father does and that Jesus will be judge and the Father will judge no one.
John 8, Jesus says that he saw Abraham and Abraham didn't try to kill him like the Jews were and Abraham was glad to see him. John 8:58, Jesus said that before Abraham was, I AM, which is what God told Moses his name was.
John 1:1,14 Jesus is the Word who was there in the beginning with God, and who was God, who took on flesh and dwelt among us.
Genesis 15:1-5 Jesus is the Word who came to Abram in a vision and gave him the promise of Issac, then verse 5 says the Word of the Lord (who is Jesus) lead Abram outside and gave him the promise of innumerable descendants, as many as the stars.
A human being is what I am. trenititybrehm is who I am.
God is what the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are. One God, who is three people.
The only reason the Trinity exists is because scripture teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.
Jesus said, "Destroy this temple (meaning his body) and in three days, I will raise it up!" He did not say his Father would raise him, although the Father and the Holy Spirit are each explicitly given credit for raising Jesus.
Isaiah 43:11, God said there is no savior besides him. Titus 3:6 Jesus is called our Savior.
John 6:46, Jesus says no one has seen the Father, yet Abraham spoke face to face with God in Genesis 18:19, Moses spoke face to face with God in Exodus 33:11 and Moses and the elders of Israel went up Mount Sinai and saw the God of Israel seated on a throne and ate with him. Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32:22-32.
Jesus is the one who ascends and descends out of heaven and the appearances of God throughout the Old Testament is Jesus. This is why he said before Abraham was, I am in John 8:58
Genesis 19:24 "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from the LORD out of the heavens." When LORD is all caps it's using God's holy name in Hebrew, and Abraham was just pleading face to face with God to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Gen 19:24 says Yahweh rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah from Yahweh out of heaven.
Jesus is the Yahweh who spoke to Abraham face to face and called sulfur and brimstone out of heaven from Yahweh the Father.
Jesus is God with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is what scripture taught from the beginning because it is from the scripture that the idea of the tri-unity between the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit as being God teaches. Not something come up with later.
Mark 1:1-4, the very first verses of the very first chapter of what is cited as the very first Gospel calls Jesus God. It references Isaiah 40:3 and Malachi 3:1 where Yahweh says he will send his messenger who will be like a voice in the wilderness to make the way before he himself comes to his temple. Mark says John is that voice in the wilderness, making the way for Jesus. John 1:23 , Matthew 3:3, and Luke 3:4 also say the exact same things. So all four Gospels call Jesus Yahweh in the first few chapters in the exact same way quoting the exact same Old Testament scriptures to do so.
In Mark 10:18, Jesus said,"Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." Meaning: "You call me good when only God is good, do you understand what you are calling me?" To further the point, Christ then lists the 6 commandments that relate to how people deal with each other and asks the man if he's followed those. The man says yes. Then, instead of listing the 4 commandments on how to relate to God and asking if he's followed those, Jesus tells the man, "Follow me," because following and worshiping Christ is following and worshiping God.
In Mark Jesus heals the paralytic man, but first, he tells him your sins are forgiven. The Pharisees around thought in their hearts this was blasphemy, because only God can forgive sins. Jesus instantly know what they were thinking and called them out on it, and said to prove to you I can forgive sins, get up and walk and the paralytic could walk. Jesus proved he is God for only God can forgive sins, only God knows the hearts of men (Jeremiah 11:20 and 17:10), and only God can heal people. Jesus did all three in Mark's Gospel, which is often considered the oldest of the four.
Read Hebrews 1:8-12. Old Testament scriptures are quoted that are talking about God creating the universe, and Hebrews 1:8-12 quotes them and attributes the Father calling Jesus God, the Lord who created the everything, who is eternal.
Hebrews 1:10-12 Is directly quoting Psalm 102:25-27, where the Psalm is talking about Yahweh (God) and Hebrews is talking about Jesus, the Son.
Philippians 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
Matthew 1:23
“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means “God with us" )
Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God."
Revelation 1:17-18
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Isaiah 48:16
“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”
(God is speaking, saying he was there from the beginning, and that the Lord God and His Spirit sent him. The Trinity in the Old Testament.)
Zechariah 12:10
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
These next passages are about the Holy Spirit being a separate person from the Father and the Son, and also being God.
Matthew 3:16-17
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 15:26-27
But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
John 16:13-15
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
2 Samuel 23:2-3 (David calling the Spirit God)
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: ‘He who rules over men must be just, Ruling in the fear of God.
Acts 5:3-4 (Peter calling the Spirit God)
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Always interesting to listen to a guy with a over inflated ego. People who know least tend to know it the loudest.
I guarantee cliffe knows the Bible better than you do bro. This guy has been preaching for over 30 years. The Bible, not from plates in a language no one ever spoke, from plates no one ever saw. Just the story of him getting the plates and bringing them home makes no sense. You can't carry that much gold at 14, grown men can't lift it. Many parts of the BoM have been debunked.
why should I take a religion that started with a false prophet “translating” non-existent languages through a hat seriously?
Patrick, what brings people to the LDS church is a simple answer. It’s not what is being “sold” as you say. It’s that we ask people to seek after God in prayer and ask to know what is true. Plain and simple. Hope that helps. We are seekers of truth. We accept the truth, no matter where we find it. Truth is truth, am I right?
Bringham Young and Joseph Smith both OPENLY embraced white racism and wrote about it. Joseph Smith HIMSELF wrote that black skin is a justification for slavery in the U.S. He published this in his own books in English, so there's no interpretation or translation excuses. We know this is incorrect doctrine for scientific reasons, but also because one of the first gentile converts was from Ethiopia. It says it in the bible. All tribes and tongues will be preached to. The bible never mentions that dark skin is a curse in any passage. Face it, your gospel is FALSE, and you need to seek after the true gospel and read the bible and embrace true Christianity. Galatians 1:8 specifically warned about false gospels preached by angels. Both Mormonism and Islam were brought by angels.
So did you "test the spirits" then? If you did you would have clearly seen that Joseph Smith was an anti-christ.
To all the Mormon/LDS members in the chat, thank you for being courteous and respectful in the chat. However, I must say that Joseph Smith was wrong and the Mormonism is a false religion! The Bible is the word of God and Jesus Christ is the eternal, pre-existent Son of God! He is the creator and saviour of the world🙏🏾❤️
Fastest growing religion, 500billion and zero debt. pretty sure they’re doing something right 👍🏽
FUNNY.. ALL THESE FAITHS ARE ANTI BLACK HEBREW.. THE ONES WHO DESCEND FROM BIBLICAL CHATTEL SLAVERY OF ARABS AND EUROPEANS.. GEE. KYRIE DOES A POST AND ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE.. SAYS A LOT.
@@meccafilms7673 you speak of wordly things. The mandatory 10% tithe to enrich the church is not of God.
Mormons believe in the bible tho
@@edmarlow5580
The concept of tithing, specifically giving 10% of one’s income or produce, originates in the Old Testament and is mentioned in several places. Here are the key passages that address the 10% tithe:
Old Testament
1. Genesis 14:20 - Abraham gives a tenth of his spoils to Melchizedek, king of Salem and priest of God Most High. This passage is one of the earliest references to the idea of giving a tenth.
2. Genesis 28:22 - Jacob vows to give God a tenth of everything God gives him, marking another early instance of the 10% principle.
3. Leviticus 27:30-32 - This passage outlines the command that a tenth of the produce of the land (grain, fruit, etc.) belongs to the Lord, as well as a tenth of livestock.
4. Numbers 18:21 - God instructs that the Israelites should give a tenth of their income to support the Levites, who served as priests but did not have land or other means of income.
5. Deuteronomy 14:22-23 - This passage again commands the Israelites to set aside a tenth of their harvest to honor and remember the Lord.
New Testament
In the New Testament, there’s less focus on a specific 10% tithe and more on generous and cheerful giving. However, Jesus does acknowledge the practice of tithing:
1. Matthew 23:23 - Jesus criticizes the Pharisees for meticulously tithing while neglecting weightier matters like justice, mercy, and faith. He acknowledges that they should tithe but not neglect other important aspects of the law.
2. Luke 18:12 - In the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee boasts about fasting and giving a tenth of all he gets. This reflects the cultural practice of tithing 10% in Jesus’ time.
If someone in the Mormon church needs financial aide, help making house payments, food, medical etc it’s generously given to them from members tithes and offerings. Humanitarian aide is given all over the world from tithing. Members in need all over the world are given money to pursue education. Look into all that’s done with tithes, I think you’ll be surprised.
Asking a non-Muslim about Islam isn't going to get accurate information.
Islam is of Satan.... 👉 And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir
And a non-mormon about mormonism, smh!
What if the member is misinformed about thier own group. Mormon/ LDS faith and even religions like Jehovah's witnesses are high control groups. What members think they know isnt always the case. Source: im an ex JW and also attended LDS meetings for a considerable time.
It’s all written
No, but you'll learn more from an x member than from a member
We have been attack as members of the LDS faith. This guy is just another in the long line.
Yep. The attacks will always be there.
Smith is the original attacker...
For fairness, have a Mormon come on and debate this guy. I guarantee people’s minds will change when they hear what Mormon’s believe.
Or he will say all the stuff Mormons don’t want us to talk about anymore 😂
He just stated everything one needs to know about Mormonism 😂
Cliff has debated a ton of Mormons on this subject. Cliff has been speaking and debating for years.
Yes, it will make more Mormons change their mind, and do their own research. Then if they can open their eyes, then they will see that the have been deceived.
show me the Archelogical evidence for mormonism...
PBD interviewing someone who has a misconstrued view about a religion and who constantly bashes it, isn’t very fair or accurate. PBD, if you want to learn about a religion, interview someone high profile from that religion and ask them the hard questions and have them defend what they believe. Don’t ask someone questions who has a negative view about a religion, because they will only bash it based on the little misconstrued knowledge they have of the religion.
They're cults
Misconstrued? Wth are u talking about?
I don’t understand your point of view. This person is actually on point when it comes to structure. Religion is nothing more than the tradition of man, Matthew 15.
Nonetheless, I respect everyone’s beliefs and show God’s love to everyone I meet.
@@Daniel-jh3tc I wasn’t referring to his view on structure. I was referring to his views on a specific religion. He clearly has his views about a religion which he bashes. I was saying it’s not fair to interview someone about a specific religion who clearly has negative opinions about that religion and who might not understand why they believe what they believe.
@@The_Wanderer1 what did he say that was factually false?
✨ Pray for Cliffe!! ✨
@@alukiian8148 I know, let's pray that he can reach more people with the truth and share the good news of the gospel of Jesus with followers of the satanic cults of catholicism, Islam and mormonism.
@@jeffreydavid6794AMEN
I agree. I pray that he reaches Mormons with the truth of Jesus so they can leave the darkness of their religion.
@@jeffreydavid6794 I challange you to pray in earnist for God's enlightenment on LDS for a clean heart and being open to the Holy Spirit and see what God tells you. Keep praying until He answers you and as you know some require prayer and fasting so I challange you to put the weight of your soul behind your words and fast and pray.
@@austinnajar Will you fast and pray? Will you freverently pray and petition Father for this?
Cliffe is so well spoken!
The title low and deceiving, and the guest does not understand our beliefs. I have come to expect better from you PBD.
why should I take a religion that started with a false prophet “translating” non-existent languages through a hat seriously?
What did he say that’s wrong
I like this person because they are loving and fair. One thing though is that if you take what he says without any context, it can give a kind of different view than the actual mormon view. The actual mormon view says that all humans who have ever existed are Jesus's brother. The devil (satan, or lucifer) was one of those brothers who in the pre-existence rebelled against the creator (the Father) and we did not (this is why the devil never could take a body). So it is more encompassing to say that mormons believe everyone who ever lived is brothers with lucifer, and also Jesus. If you just make it sound like "the devil and Jesus are brothers" that does not really make much sense of the actual teaching. Just wanted to clarify that.
Bring a member on here that knows their stuff and get their thoughts
why should I take a religion that started with a false prophet “translating” non-existent languages through a hat seriously?
Love how many Mormon PBD followers are out there!!!
why should I take a religion that started with a false prophet “translating” non-existent languages through a hat seriously?
The one true faith.
GOTCHA!! Lol.
His vies are grounded by the pagan Roman Empire. Views that dictated a trinity doctrine never taught by Christ. His confusion reflects the very reason a Restoration was needed.
If you want to know and understand what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in (in the proper context), then you don't go to non-members to explain it.
That is like asking a liberal to explain republican policies 🙄
I am very disappointed in this video and that you chose to post it. I had more respect for your point of view until now.
Cliffe has been debating athiests for over 40 years he is not that well informed on other denominations because he tries to just stick with the bible or sometimes oradox christianity so cliffe is very smart but he has not gotten deep into other denomiation only hit the surface, now I don't know you but try preaching the gospel for over 40 years to athiests and planting seed but then people imply you're a bad christian.
Cliffe has most likely thought he was going to be asked things relating to athiestm because thats who cliffe has been preaching too for the last 40 years
Your comments and understanding of the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is incorrect.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
No they are not. Galatians 1:8 warns about false gospels preached by angels. Jesus himself said that people do not marry in heaven. Your book directly contradicts this verse in the bible.
I converted from Mormonism to Orthodox Christianity, I feel much more at home in the Orthodox church but still have love for many Mormons, my parents being two of them. Unfortunately, Joseph Smith and many of the beliefs were a turn off. I also felt very judged in the mormon church, many of the young adult and even the elderly crowd walk around with their nose in the air. Very judgemental. I never feel that in the Orthodox church. I often ask my parents if they believe "insert mormon belief here" and theyll say no or give it back the way they see it and i just dont have the courage to say why are you going to a church where you dont believe what they believe?
Maybe you should lower your nose and see the love they have for you?
Lds member my whole life. 50 years old. Not sure why you would bring on a person that is not a member of my church to tell you about it. Do some homework and bring on a active member that can speak to these issues your discussing. Please.
@@mascotbenches5146 To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Its all fun and games till we find out mormonism was the true religion 😂😂😂 #Southpark
@@Barisdagame bruh they literally had a whole episode exposing how ridiculous Joseph smith was lmao
@@Ghidorah_Stan64 Apparently someone didn't finish the episode, lol
The angels of God are called Sons of God, and Jesus is the Son of God. That makes them brothers. Joseph Smith was right. End of discussion.
Cliff makes his money being a pastors. Our bishops (pastors) are all volunteer. I was raised Catholic, became Methodist, and have been LDS 28 plus years. We study the Old Testament, New Testsment, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. We also study words of prophets. Satan’s name means son of the morning. He is our brother and so is Jesus-we are all children of God, our Heavenly Father.
Lucifer's name means son of the morning' He lost that name when he was cast out of Father's Heaven and became satan = adversary. satan is not the same nature as he was as Lucifer. He has been banned from returning to the Father's house and sentenced to eternal death and outter darkness by the Father. Is he even a legitamate member of God's family anymore? I feel no compassion for satan and I feel no kinship to him. As I look at now, i think he has been cut off like a branch from the tree. Exactly where does it say that satan is a brother to Christ's people? I've only ever understood it from the benefit that Lucifer is a child of God. And the assumption that as satan he still is. Now I am curious to know more.
@@nanizon I can refer you to the LDS website to study it. No room here. Yes he was physically and spiritually rejected, will never have a resurrected body or live with God again.
No where does sacred script say jesus and satan are brothers. Yes Lucifer was the morning son and a brother but he was banned, cut off and became the destroyer and adversary. the word satan does not mean son of the morning. That's a misapplication.
That's where you are in error. Satan is an angel, a created being. Jesus is God. The second in the Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. He told the Pharisees, Before Abraham was, I Am. He is the word. The word was in the beginning and created all things and was and is God.
@@nanizonAngels are called sons of God, but there is only one begotten Son of God, Jesus.
The thing this guy confidently leaves out, is he only believes what the pagan Roman government told him he is allowed tk be believe. He may want to look at his own history before speaking ill of other religions.
all fools call out other's supposedly bad, while ignoring their own.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
It's mainly because of the archeology, "friendly" writers, and "hostile" writers mentioned above that the Jesus Seminar, who are PhD level ashiest/agnostics who study Christ and the Bible, concluded that Jesus really lived in Judea 2,000 years ago, was known as a miracle workers, died on the cross under Pilate, and that his disciples really believed they had seen him risen from the dead.
The fact that there are contradictions between manuscripts is often sited as proof against trusting scripture, when it actually does the opposite. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
There is also all the undisigned coincidence between not only the four Gospels, but the rest of the New and Old Testaments too.
Matthew 2:22 talks about Joseph not wanting to return to Judea after fleeing to Egypt because Archelaus was ruling. That's all the info on that the Bible gives. Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us about the things Archelaus did and how evil he was. Put these two peices of evidence together, we get the full picture.
This sort of thing happens through the text with the seemingly useless details matching up perfectly with extra Biblical sources, lending to the credibility of the text.
The Apostles willingness to be killed not for saying they believed Jesus had risen, but they knew he had risen, because they saw him.
If the tomb wasn't empty, they would've paraded the body around to stomp out any idea of Jesus being ressurrected, but Christianty spread because there was no body in the tomb.
If someone stole the body, why were nearly all the Apostles willing to be killed for saying they'd seen Jesus risen? They were thousands of miles away from one another before phones and the internet and were being threaten, tortured, and murdered for their claim. Not one "broke" and said it was a lie to save themselves.
It's because of the evidence that I believe in Jesus.
@@trentitybrehm5105 you have the writings of SOME of the disciples. The rest were left out by Pagan emperors, took back to Rome and burned. This is historical fact and indisputable. It was done to control the "Christians", who really aren't Christians. Of course pagans wrote those things, they don't want you to know the real teachings of Jesus.
I find it ironic you only listen to pagans and not God. You never once said God inspired the pagans who put the bible together and this is the only word of God.
The men who put the bible together during the abominable creeds were lying backstabbing. Litterally. They killed anyone who disagreed with them. The only reason you believe what you do is because one group had a bigger militia than the rest. Not because God said this is true.
Have you? I don't think you have
That’s factually inaccurate. I’m sorry buddy. If you need an explanation, let me know. Have a great evening
Satan was known as Lucifer and the “Son of the morning “.
He was a fallen angel.
Angel is translated in various ways.
I don’t see an issue where someone who was good turns evil. We saw that in Cain and Abel. Just because Cain became bad doesn’t take away from Abel being good.
The universe is full of opposites.
Like Ying and Yang .
I don’t believe that you should disparage someone or a religion because they have a different profound view of things.
After all, wasn’t the story of Jesus Christ first disparaged by those who thought themselves wiser and more knowledgeable?
yeah this guy is scared he might not have all the truth
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
How was it to disparge, all he did was state we he thinks they are wrong.Is that not the point of answering the question.
Cliffe has been debating athiests for over 40 years he is not that well informed on other denominations because he tries to just stick with the bible or sometimes oradox christianity so cliffe is very smart but he has not gotten deep into other denomiation only hit the surface, now I don't know you but try preaching the gospel for over 40 years to athiests and planting seed but then people imply you're a bad christian.
Cliffe has most likely thought he was going to be asked things relating to athiestm because thats who cliffe has been preaching too for the last 40 years
LDS church has the most comprehensive complete doctrine of Jesus Christ. Sorry.
You must be on whatever Joseph smith was smoking to say something so ridiculous
Joe Smith was a false prophet. Let's start there.
😂😂😂
Please....
To include elements of Free Masonry in the temple ceremony.
LDS members reading this. Know that if you keep seeking Jesus, read His Word, and pray to Our Father, you are welcome to find a home within The Catholic Church. Grace and Peace to you. 🙏
Satan twists the truth, he is clever and smarter than we can possibly imagine. Mormon’s do work in gods name and are good people, but just be weary of what your taught. Jesus formed the church after his resurrection, he didn’t continue to make changes in different nations afterwards. Trust in his word, remain faithful to the one and only god. Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one and the same. Search your hearts, you know this to be true. God Bless everyone on this journey currently, the path to heaven is narrow so lead with love, grow in faith, repent, and trust in our lord. Have a good day everyone
Patrick, please interview David Alexander or look at some of his content. He has an amazing perspective as an Evangelical in regards to the Church " Mormons". By the way "Mormons" is a slang term the proper name of the church is," the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
I appreciate what Cliff does but he’s not as educated as he should be to be considered any kind of authority on Christianity
People have misunderstood and truth does not stop being true if a person doesn’t believe it. Joseph Smith plural marriage revelation was a test on faith.
Simple as THAT. Yet people can’t (or refuse) seem to understand that simple concept.
the Bible tells us that the Gospel is final even if an angel appears with a new message
Joseph Smith: “so a angel told me something”
the message wasnt a new gospel. Moroni spoke about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon to him. This also happened on a Hebrew Holiday
@ well if it runs opposed to the Gospel of Christ in the new testament it has to be a new Gospel
joseph smith reveals things contrary to what Christ taught
If you want to talk about Coca Cola don't invite someone who works for Pepsi.
Exactly, Joseph smith denounced all Christian religions as abominations. So why did he go ahead and call himself a Christian? A religion that believes there is more than one god and they can become gods is not Christian. Why invite a Christian on your show when you want to know about a non Christian religion?
@@darkdesertgoose2112 Smith never claimed Christian religions as abominations at the time. God did.
0:40 Cliff, where does it say in "Mormon" scripture that Jesus and Satan are brothers? As you say, it is in Mormonism's fundamental teachings, it should be easy to prove, right? But, you can't.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@@trentitybrehm5105damn, bro wrote an essay
WRONG! Your blantant ambiguity lies in the idea we are all related to the man God of Mormonism as Spirit children, which would include both the Mormon Jesus and Lucifer. It is in Mormonism that it is taught, all angels, all humans, are literally the Sons and Daughters of god, begotten in the spirit world by a procreative act between God and His Heavenly wife or wives. There is no asterisk next to this point that would be followed by a presumed separate allocation of Jesus and Lucifer as being a part of this Spirit Family... so yes, the Mormon Jesus is the brother of Satan. If you don't believe me it is clearly defined in achieving a Celestial marriage in the LDS church manual page 129.
Need further proof? In the book of Abraham it says, our father had said, "whom shall I send" book of Abraham chapter 3 verse 27 semicolon two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ who was then called jehovah, said here am I send me... satan, who was called lucifer, also came saying, behold, here I am, send me. I will be thy son and I will redeem all mankind that one Soul shall not be lost and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor book of Moses chapter 4 verse 1, which is also reiterated in the gospel principles written in 1997 page 17 through 18.
BABOOOM🌋
I think you should remove that second m in the word Mormon
Book of Mormon just added things onto the bible which is against God
Ward radio responding to this clip will be fun. This guy doesn’t understand the church of Jesus Christ the way he thinks he does.
They are good representatives of the LdS church. Not good representatives of Joseph Smith or the BoM.
LDS and Christianity are incompatible
Yeah well your audience is much smaller than Bet-David's, and the audience can read the bible for discernment. Any small bit of research can easily disprove Mormonism. Repent and embrace true Christianity. People do not marry in heaven. Jesus SPECIFICALLY says this in Matthew 22:30.
@@rs72098 The LdS doesn't teach that you do. They marry everyone to each other on earth.
Former members can dispute the LdS claims much better than never members.
Maybe PBD can get with the guys from Ward Radio. They just did a review of this episode. It would be good for another point of view.
I showed up at Pastor Knechtle's sermon this morning (11-24-2024) in New Canaan, Ct. My brother died about 5 and a half years ago. When we were kids together in Westport, Ct., my brother used to go over to Linda Blair's house and give guitar lessons to her older sister. Around the time, Linda was appearing in 'The Exorcist', my brother was recording a song about demonic possession with one of Tina Turner's backup singers (you can find this on youtube, btw). Then, years after that, my brother was invited over to Keith Richards' house (him and his guitar). You know, the guy who co-wrote the rock classic-'Sympathy For The Devil'. He lives near New Canaan in Ct. That reminds me: Many new moons ago, before I professed Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, I belonged to a synagogue with a man named (drum roll, please) Joseph Smith!
Polygamy served a purpose and now is gone. Mr. Knechtle is so off base. Why is he explaining LDS beliefs?
LDS beliefs are there for anyone to read and study... Just because someone is there that says "I believe it" doesn't make it true...
The purpose was sin. One man, one woman.
@@SenseiOwens Tell that to Nelson and Oaks. Both are sealed to 2 women, polygamy is required for the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, remember?
✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️ JESUS is LORD ✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️💕✝️
Many people in the comments saying he doesn't understand Mormon doctrine just read the clip bait title 😅
He didn't say Joe Smith is Satan's brother.
And he's giving his opinion and reactions, true or not, hear him out. Speaking as a non LDS and non Evangelical Christian apologist
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the original church of Christ restored in modern times.
😂
Great questions. Now get a real LDS expert to answer them correctly and speak for themselves. PBD loves LDS people. He knows there has to be more to it.
1:19 there’s no way you can call him a nice guy
Jesus was not the brother of Satan. Jesus was not a polygamist. Jesus IS God. LDS is full of heresies.