You said you didn't get any poison wins in the final thoughts, but you did. When the opponent conceded in round 2 at 28:45. They had 5 poison to your 4 proliferators, but big teferi could get the tenth point in their upkeep. You weren't about to win through combat damage, so I count that as a poison win.
Parallax wave is probably too cute, but gosh dang it, the idea of just cranking it up and eating all of the opponents creatures forever with proliferate is tasty.
A a card I've found useful against Rescaminator etc decks is Purify the Grave. It doesn't sound amazing, but a piece of GY hate that they can't discard from your hand is surprisingly effective.
I like a day’s undoing as the tech for beans. It requires some stability, but it’s a way to get back to parity if they’re at 7 cards to your 3 or whatever, and if you can stick it with your narset then suddenly you’re miles ahead. We like go buttons in this channel
So excited to see more of this archetype! This deck gets an almost free Kaheera companion, which may help in the long games with lots of mana and low resources
Because they could (and likely should) sacrifice the Petal in response, meaning that Teferi's ability would not resolve and Bosh would not draw a card. As stated, Bosh's goal that turn was broadly-speaking to see as many cards as possible. EDIT: From the opponent's clock, it *seems* like they were auto-yielded through the turn, so it's probable that bouncing the Petal would have worked. But that's not really something that one can count on, especially since activating Teferi was the first thing Bosh did that turn.
I almost feel bad wanting to root for this league to not go 5-0 because I love me some U/W control decks like this and wanna see as much such content as possible! So I guess um. I wish you bad luck on the follow-up league and then I wish you great luck when you've had at least 2 leagues to refine the deck and you achieve victory in third times a charm rules!
This deck needs 1 jace, cunning castaway. Why? Because if you ultimate jace and prolifirate once, you get to make infinite copies of the sexiest jace ever printed.
You'll lose on time. I had Jace CC in my Izzet combo list for control matchups. I was winning on paper, but they had the time advantage because all they had to do was wrath
@@Dracomandriuthus There is no point in the chain where a wrath actually stops Castaway + gauntlet combo, your opponent does get a turn to stop you with something like a Farewell(unless you have an extra walker or another proliferate), but if you untap you make a bunch of 2/2 and take an extra turn.
The Ichormoon Gauntlet doesn't need poison strategy to win at all even, 3 walkers is 9 loyalty a turn, 4 is 16. You very quickly spiral taking extra turns if you get it online. Sure you have to find some way to win, but you've seen your walkers can accomplish that. You're probably right that having a copy in the deck, it cantrips, as a side win option is fine and probably correct. I'd probably want a copy of settle the wreckage in your sweepers, can't be countered is a great line of text, but between hasty things and indestructible things (and psuedo hasty indestructible 20/20s that appear on your endstep) having an answer that protects the walkers you have in play. Might be worth a single Mystic Sanctuary as well as a second Meticulous Archive for selection. Even with -2 basics in the deck to support that, you can still fetch around wasteland most of the time, against Nic Fit you didn't even end up pulling all of them out of your deck suggests to me that there's some number more than you need. Other than that you can play Wandering Emperor around bowmasters a little better, +1 counter on the first token instead of dropping to 1 loyalty, and it grows with proliferation after that. I don't think this league you are punished for that even against the bowmaster deck, but it's something to consider. If the value you get off your Emperor was your main concern, definitely go for it, playing to outs of them not having it is fine. But hitting critical mass of in play walkers is valuable for your deck.
the basics aren't only to play around wasteland. There's blood moon, back to basics, a bunch of other hate pieces you just get to ignore wth these 2 color manabases
Oh yeah for sure, basics are very powerful and important. But I still think for 2 slots to give the deck more play in those awkward spots where the first draw engine is shut down, countered, destroyed or what have you.@@danielwappner1035
Thoughts on using march at 45:22 on the petal? they clearly don't have a 1 mana reanimate spell, and this forces them to rip either that or another mana source.
Any thoughts about Karn's Bastion? I don't know if it would make sense if you're going down to only 1 Prologue, but when you were considering 3 Prologues I figure it would be a good mana sink for this deck. Might still be given how many PWs you try to get into play. Also, I know your Arena collection is not so great right now, but this might be good to try in Historic. UW Control is one of the strongest decks in that format right now.
Wonder if some walker that more or less just wins with an ult that is not too far from starting loyalty could have a spot. So use the ichor to power up to ult the turn you cast it or the turn after. Something like Narset Transcendent or Hero of Dominaria. narset is just +3 to ult
Loved the original ichormoon video, stoked to see more of this. Would cutting some Prologue to Phyresis for Prismatic Ending make sense? With or without a triome/Volc, it's more answers for Beans.
I love big Tef and did consider him. When identifying the weaknesses of the deck as Beanstalk and Bowmasters, it’s hard to justify a 5-drop that is slower and worse than those engines.
I have the feeling that every set pushes control decks down a bit. Seems kinda odd playing counterspells and draw stuff against fable of the mirror breaker and friends.
Legacy being the most restrictive format where Control is a reasonable deck choice does sorta make me agree. Threats are just so overly pushed in FIRE design
Is Veteran Explorer the oldest creature card still getting played in Legacy/Vintage? Maybe Orcish Lumberjack? Both are really fringe though. Is Lord of Atlantis still played?
Veteran explorer didn't get printed until weatherlight 1997 so other older creatures that I wouldn't be shocked to see play would be Lord of Atlantis Ornithopter Tinder Wall Man-O-War Quirion Ranger Phyrexian Dreadnought Elvish Spirit Guide
Subtlety ignores Cavern of Souls in some matchups and it pivoting into a 2-for-1 with a body at 4 mana is more important than a 5 mana 1 for 1 in other matchups.
@@BoshNRoll thanks for the clarifcation. posibly link in the discription next time cause I youtube hates to show me community posts period, and Id expect that in discription over a community post.
Ah no, not Gideon of the Trials, now I'm thinking about stupid final fortune spam decks again... I'm assuming Inkmoth is too much of a color hit to slip in as an extra poison source?
Edit: one of the comments got it. I'm dumb and Bosh's thumbnail game is too strong on one hand, it's sick that Bosh got the bonus but man am I disappointed we don't get 2 more leagues of this
I mean in order to win the game with the infect strategy you'll already have to have a stable boardstate with planeswalkers up which in most cases means you're doing okay or winning so in a sense it doesn't matter if you win with infect or by running 2/2s into it when the opponent is topdecking every round and you have perfect answers for everything. What I noticed was oftentimes when it went into a prolonged hellbent vs hellbent which in my opinion doesn't happen seldom, you would've loved to have that ichorid gauntlet but you only play 2 copies and don't play a way to tutor it. Perhaps an enlightened tutor would steer the deck in a way where you add some enchantment removal and then have the extra option of ichorid gauntlet if you have the time. I feel like this iteration and similar iterations of the deck will only win with infect by ripping the gauntlet in those top deck wars where you have a narset and teferi on board. Entertaining games none the less :)
You said you didn't get any poison wins in the final thoughts, but you did. When the opponent conceded in round 2 at 28:45. They had 5 poison to your 4 proliferators, but big teferi could get the tenth point in their upkeep. You weren't about to win through combat damage, so I count that as a poison win.
Sick, count it!
Parallax wave is probably too cute, but gosh dang it, the idea of just cranking it up and eating all of the opponents creatures forever with proliferate is tasty.
HMMMMM...
Sounds like a good sideboard card for this deck
We just want to see it again 🤩🤩🤩
The number of times I’ve surveiled and seen a kaldra on top that I don’t want to draw but don’t want in my graveyard😭
A a card I've found useful against Rescaminator etc decks is Purify the Grave. It doesn't sound amazing, but a piece of GY hate that they can't discard from your hand is surprisingly effective.
I like a day’s undoing as the tech for beans. It requires some stability, but it’s a way to get back to parity if they’re at 7 cards to your 3 or whatever, and if you can stick it with your narset then suddenly you’re miles ahead. We like go buttons in this channel
I just want to see a massively proliferated Tangle Wire
17:05 "Call it out folks. It's always there." Woah chill Bosh. That's apparently a two way street with the channel
35:44 - You channel your inner Steve Menendian. The VSL approves.
"You just keep saying words and the happen."
-Bosh, 2024
So excited to see more of this archetype!
This deck gets an almost free Kaheera companion, which may help in the long games with lots of mana and low resources
I've had a similar deck noodling around in my head except it uses Porphyry nodes + Gideon Blackblade.
At 49:07 why not bounce the lotus petal with teferi, with dovin it costs them one to replay
Because they could (and likely should) sacrifice the Petal in response, meaning that Teferi's ability would not resolve and Bosh would not draw a card. As stated, Bosh's goal that turn was broadly-speaking to see as many cards as possible.
EDIT: From the opponent's clock, it *seems* like they were auto-yielded through the turn, so it's probable that bouncing the Petal would have worked. But that's not really something that one can count on, especially since activating Teferi was the first thing Bosh did that turn.
So they can't fizzle it by floating mana and deny my card draw.
BOSH PACK ITS MY BIRTHDAY SO YOU HAVE TO SMOKE EM IF YOU GOT EM
Your birthday is my anniversary. Haha.
Happy birthday :)
Happy birthday 🎂🎉
Happy birthday, I don’t have anything but I have my dog a piece of chicken in your honor.
BIRTHDAY PACK LIGHT UP THOSE CANDLES AND SMOKE EM IF YOU GOT EM IF YOU WANT ME I’LL BE SMOKING ON THAT BIRTHDAY PACK
I don't know why but that "BOING" in game 2 had me rolling.
I built this as an oathbreaker deck after the first video, really cool deck, excited to see it again!
1:17 you forget about the timeout win-con. I'll never live that down, lol.
I’ve never wanted to see a Bosh loss before, but I love this deck so got damn much
Oh yessss, I still remember trying not to laugh out loud watching the last Ichormoon video while on break.
I almost feel bad wanting to root for this league to not go 5-0 because I love me some U/W control decks like this and wanna see as much such content as possible! So I guess um. I wish you bad luck on the follow-up league and then I wish you great luck when you've had at least 2 leagues to refine the deck and you achieve victory in third times a charm rules!
That first version was one of my fave vids when I first found your channel glad its back
I like this deck. I hope you get the trophy on the 3rd try, though I'll be happy if you get it next time too.
YESS Ichormoon is back
I like this deck.
I guess it's even better while you always draw the perfect card XD
I love seeing Gideon of the Trials in older formats.
Me too, and dovin hand of control 😁
Spellsnare hard counters beans and bow. Perhaps a 2 of is in order.
And hits Shallow Grave and Animate Dead (on the draw if you survive turn 1)
This deck needs 1 jace, cunning castaway. Why? Because if you ultimate jace and prolifirate once, you get to make infinite copies of the sexiest jace ever printed.
needs to happen
You'll lose on time.
I had Jace CC in my Izzet combo list for control matchups.
I was winning on paper, but they had the time advantage because all they had to do was wrath
Narset doesn’t really help against beans when they just force or leyline binding on you turn.
@@Dracomandriuthus There is no point in the chain where a wrath actually stops Castaway + gauntlet combo, your opponent does get a turn to stop you with something like a Farewell(unless you have an extra walker or another proliferate), but if you untap you make a bunch of 2/2 and take an extra turn.
22:32 that sounded so satisfying
I always love planeswalker control, and Dovin, Hand of control was always one of my favorite planeswalkers out of WAR.
This deck is ridiculous in the best possible way
The Ichormoon Gauntlet doesn't need poison strategy to win at all even, 3 walkers is 9 loyalty a turn, 4 is 16. You very quickly spiral taking extra turns if you get it online. Sure you have to find some way to win, but you've seen your walkers can accomplish that. You're probably right that having a copy in the deck, it cantrips, as a side win option is fine and probably correct.
I'd probably want a copy of settle the wreckage in your sweepers, can't be countered is a great line of text, but between hasty things and indestructible things (and psuedo hasty indestructible 20/20s that appear on your endstep) having an answer that protects the walkers you have in play. Might be worth a single Mystic Sanctuary as well as a second Meticulous Archive for selection. Even with -2 basics in the deck to support that, you can still fetch around wasteland most of the time, against Nic Fit you didn't even end up pulling all of them out of your deck suggests to me that there's some number more than you need.
Other than that you can play Wandering Emperor around bowmasters a little better, +1 counter on the first token instead of dropping to 1 loyalty, and it grows with proliferation after that. I don't think this league you are punished for that even against the bowmaster deck, but it's something to consider. If the value you get off your Emperor was your main concern, definitely go for it, playing to outs of them not having it is fine. But hitting critical mass of in play walkers is valuable for your deck.
the basics aren't only to play around wasteland. There's blood moon, back to basics, a bunch of other hate pieces you just get to ignore wth these 2 color manabases
Oh yeah for sure, basics are very powerful and important. But I still think for 2 slots to give the deck more play in those awkward spots where the first draw engine is shut down, countered, destroyed or what have you.@@danielwappner1035
I have built a similar deck myself and I include Jace cunning castaway (1 of) as it goes infinite very easily with ichormoon gauntlet on board.
I would love to see a modern variant of this. It looks so fun to play.
We boshen and we rollin baby!
Sick and lovely deck. You'll get them next time with some tweaks
Thoughts on using march at 45:22 on the petal? they clearly don't have a 1 mana reanimate spell, and this forces them to rip either that or another mana source.
It's more obvious than that - he -3'd Teferi on nothing when it was free to bounce the petal which cost 1 to play due to Dovin.
@@RaphaelBriandit's less obvious than that, because then Bosh probably doesn't draw from the -3, if opp cracks petal in response
@@rekenner Ha! Knew I couldn't have been cleverer than Brian.
glad we get to see this again
Love the deck. Really like the 3 mana gideon and the big tef (played those in modern a while ago).
Do you think it s modern playable ? 😅
I'd love to see an adaptation for timeless! Not having the forces is a bummer, but mostly everything else is there... (excluding SB)
Ichormoon gauntlet is an artifact, maybe we can include Karn and have a wishboard?
Because you are planning to go up on narsets maybe 1 days undoing could make the main deck
Any thoughts about Karn's Bastion? I don't know if it would make sense if you're going down to only 1 Prologue, but when you were considering 3 Prologues I figure it would be a good mana sink for this deck. Might still be given how many PWs you try to get into play. Also, I know your Arena collection is not so great right now, but this might be good to try in Historic. UW Control is one of the strongest decks in that format right now.
Around 26:00, you get your two Samurai tokens Plowed, was there any particular reason you didn't phase out the second one in response?
Because that’s not how Teferi works
@@BoshNRoll oops, I thought it said "you control" 🤦♂️
Wonder if some walker that more or less just wins with an ult that is not too far from starting loyalty could have a spot. So use the ichor to power up to ult the turn you cast it or the turn after. Something like Narset Transcendent or Hero of Dominaria. narset is just +3 to ult
What about some of the oaths? Since you are looking to move more towards walker shenanigans
Screaming TAKE THE GAUNTLET to my tv at 40 mins
Loved the original ichormoon video, stoked to see more of this. Would cutting some Prologue to Phyresis for Prismatic Ending make sense? With or without a triome/Volc, it's more answers for Beans.
Loved the league super friends with ichormoon is one of my favorite decks to see. Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on 1 big Teferi?
I love big Tef and did consider him. When identifying the weaknesses of the deck as Beanstalk and Bowmasters, it’s hard to justify a 5-drop that is slower and worse than those engines.
I have the feeling that every set pushes control decks down a bit. Seems kinda odd playing counterspells and draw stuff against fable of the mirror breaker and friends.
its hard to give true control decks toys without creating a revolting format/environment.
Legacy being the most restrictive format where Control is a reasonable deck choice does sorta make me agree. Threats are just so overly pushed in FIRE design
49:06 missed bouncing the Lotus Petal with Dovin out. I was wondering why you did that when you Marched it afterwards.
Because they can float mana and fizzle my draw. I want more cards.
@@BoshNRoll makes sense!
Is Veteran Explorer the oldest creature card still getting played in Legacy/Vintage? Maybe Orcish Lumberjack? Both are really fringe though. Is Lord of Atlantis still played?
Veteran explorer didn't get printed until weatherlight 1997 so other older creatures that I wouldn't be shocked to see play would be
Lord of Atlantis
Ornithopter
Tinder Wall
Man-O-War
Quirion Ranger
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Elvish Spirit Guide
This deck definitly needs more planeswalker!At least 1-2 jace, come on! 😂😂😂
I PRIMALLY need this ported to pioneer
I would have loved to see a Jace in there. Any of them, even if it was sideboarded or splashed one in. I can dream though.
Y board Subtlety over FoW? Is the creature important?
Subtlety ignores Cavern of Souls in some matchups and it pivoting into a 2-for-1 with a body at 4 mana is more important than a 5 mana 1 for 1 in other matchups.
i think the deck should play a kaheera in the board :D
this isnt super friends, this is a toxic crowd.
The best friends always are!
@@BoshNRoll, this looked like a particularly fun deck to pilot too
Gauntlet is so damn cool
You say it's a gauntlet but it looks like a poisoned chalice to me.
Oh yeah that's the good stuff
"This is the start of a challenge..." on an instant trophy video. Classic Bosh N Roll. I hope the challenger still got their money's worth 😂
Someone didn't watch the video before commenting!
@@NormalTheBandoh yeah! Lol... I saw the trophy in the thumbnail, and the word trophy in the title... 😢 Next week!
Let's go!!!!
Obligatory algorithmic contribution
Experimental Augury was a house the last time you played this kind of deck, could be a better inclusion than prologue
This also dodges draw hate like Bowmaster or opposing Narsets and Hullbreachers
Damage is fine but ichor is quicker! 😈
No way. You need like 4 tries
happy to see a 5-0 brew, disapoined to see gambling sponsership. I hope you understand why Id run youtube sponser block.
Have you read the community post?
I do not support gambling. I made a community post if you care to read it.
@@BoshNRoll thanks for the clarifcation. posibly link in the discription next time cause I youtube hates to show me community posts period, and Id expect that in discription over a community post.
Ah no, not Gideon of the Trials, now I'm thinking about stupid final fortune spam decks again...
I'm assuming Inkmoth is too much of a color hit to slip in as an extra poison source?
Edit: one of the comments got it. I'm dumb and Bosh's thumbnail game is too strong
on one hand, it's sick that Bosh got the bonus
but man am I disappointed we don't get 2 more leagues of this
56:59 Uh, you do get one. He lost round 3
Yeah, Trophy Challenge doesn't mean "positive record," it means 5-0.
@@drpibisback7680 they saw the trophy in the thumbnail and assumed that he got 5-0 during the first round, most likely
Radstorm seems like it could be a good fit here.
Fwiw that thumbnail made me think it was a trophy, not a trophy challenge
Good. People complain all the time about me spoiling trophy runs. This creates results ambiguity without lying. Everyone should be happy about it.
Deck title is EASILY worth a click
Would love to see minsc and boo in here
ashiok vs nic fit is _disgusting_
I mean in order to win the game with the infect strategy you'll already have to have a stable boardstate with planeswalkers up which in most cases means you're doing okay or winning so in a sense it doesn't matter if you win with infect or by running 2/2s into it when the opponent is topdecking every round and you have perfect answers for everything. What I noticed was oftentimes when it went into a prolonged hellbent vs hellbent which in my opinion doesn't happen seldom, you would've loved to have that ichorid gauntlet but you only play 2 copies and don't play a way to tutor it. Perhaps an enlightened tutor would steer the deck in a way where you add some enchantment removal and then have the extra option of ichorid gauntlet if you have the time. I feel like this iteration and similar iterations of the deck will only win with infect by ripping the gauntlet in those top deck wars where you have a narset and teferi on board. Entertaining games none the less :)
I hope you lose the next league so we can see this deck a third time :D
Stop putting the result in the title tyty
I didn’t yw yw
MILGHCM (man i love good honest control magic)