The Milwaukee Road in Montana - FULL VIDEO
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2023
- In this video, C. Vision Productions brings you historic footage of Milwaukee Road trains in Montana and Washington, including the final four days of electric operations between Harlowton and Deer Lodge, Montana in June of 1974. We’ll see ground shots, pace scenes, and even in-cab footage aboard Milwaukee Road “Little Joes” in this full-length presentation. Diesels are seen in this program as well, with EMD models SD45, SD40-2, and GP40 making multiple appearances. Mixed consists of diesels and electrics were common, with the units teaming up to battle the mountain grades of Montana.
Come along with photographer Ted Pope, as he brings the Milwaukee Road’s “Lines West” back to life, while we tour some of the most scenic territory on the railroad. Highlights include Deer Lodge, Butte, Pipestone Pass, Jefferson Canyon, Three Forks, Lombard, and Sixteen Mile Canyon, along with many more fascinating locations visited along the way. As an added bonus, we follow Milwaukee Road’s Bicentennial SD40-2, MILW 156, on its travels through the state of Washington.
Copyright 2011, C. Vision Productions/Ted Pope
Music by Bensound
If you enjoyed this video, check out the links below for more railroad entertainment:
Classic BNSF: Along the Route of the Milwaukee Road Vol. 1 - Mainline and South Dakota Core Lines
• Classic BNSF: Along th...
Classic BNSF: Along the Route of the Milwaukee Road Vol. 2 - The Gateway to “Lines West”
• Classic BNSF: Along th...
BNSF Rotary Snow Plow Action in McIntosh, South Dakota!
• BNSF Rotary Snow Plow ...
Rock Island’s Mid-Continent Route in the 1960s - Bonus MN&S Footage
• Rock Island’s Mid-Cont...
Montana Rail Link SD45 Renaissance Vol. 1, The East End - FULL VIDEO (2016)
• Montana Rail Link SD45...
Montana Rail Link Vol. 2, The West End - Updated FULL VIDEO (2016)
• Montana Rail Link Vol....
Montana Rail Link Vol. 3, The Final Countdown: GP9, SD40-2XR, and SD45 Locomotives
• Montana Rail Link Vol....
Montana Rail Link: Mission Complete - C. Vision’s Tribute to MRL
• Montana Rail Link: Mis...
Central Montana Railroad: Shortline Survivor - GP9 and GP30 Territory
• Central Montana Railro... - Розваги
The Milwaukee Road lives on in my garden in G scale. Greetings from Germany
We appreciate you keeping the Milwaukee Road alive in miniature form. Greetings from the United States!
HE SAID THE LINE! Praise the Milwaukee Road.
Ha! Yes he did. Don Grant does a great job narrating for us.
There is a 17 mile bike trail at the western end of Montana called the Hiawatha Rail Trail. You ride the line down a 1% grade and you get your bike hauled back up to the top. A peak experience, highly recommended
Thank you for that, Phil! That sounds like a great experience, especially for Milwaukee Road fans.
Adair Loop just west of Taft Tunnel on the MT-ID border. It's a 1.7% grade and you have to pay to ride. You also must carry a bike headlight to navigate the long tunnels. Worth the trip.
Is it blacktop or gravel or what?
I run the i90 through the Clark Fork Valley pretty regularly. You can still see some of the electric infrastructure along the old right of way.
Ghosts of the past… Considering that operations ceased 43 years ago, it’s quite amazing to see so much of the Milwaukee’s infrastructure surviving in 2023. Thank you for the comment, Arthur.
The Milwaukee Ro
Hey guys Milwaukee Road railfan here today we will be railfanning the Milwaukee Road in Montana
The Milwaukee Roa
Thank you for posting this video. I was in Bozeman, Montana on my first visit in September 1973. I asked my brother-in-law to take me to see the MW and he took me to Three Forks where the only thing to see was an SW1 switcher (869) and what I thought was an inspection car attached. We then went to Piedmont sub-station and was shown round the building by the man on duty. We asked if there were any electrics due and he said "No, but there's an eastbound due soon". We waited and eventually saw almost new SD40 23 leading a 3-loco set. I managed a not very good photo of it, but if I had known the electrics were very near finishing and the whole line would be gone by 1980, I would have asked to go back again. However, at least I got to ride the North Coast Hiawatha from Bozeman to Butte (but unfortunately back by Greyhound) then Bozeman to Minneapolis. Both routes had some of the best railway scenery in the country - a sad loss.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. We’re grateful that you witnessed operations on this section of railroad before the Milwaukee Road’s retrenchment. And, whether it was diesels or electrics, you were guaranteed a great show. As for the uploading of this video, it is our pleasure. You’re very welcome.
So very sad that this line was abandoned and torn up when it would’ve made the absolute perfect transcontinental line for Amtrak, instead of having Amtrak constantly fight with BNSF.
There was so much potential in the Milwaukee Road’s Pacific Extension. Most of it lost in 1980. If there was no way to save it all, it would seem that sections of the route that may have been superior to parallel lines should have been retained for future use. Thankfully, several notable sections are still in operation today. The longest of which being BNSF’s portion of the Milwaukee main across South Dakota, North Dakota, and Montana, as far west as Terry, Montana. Thank you for the comment. It really stirred the ideas of “what could have been”.
If only the UP took St. Paul, MN (SPUD) to Seattle-Tacoma it’d be with us today. Same result with a CM&NW merger. The SOO and GTW could have still wrestled over Lines East.
@@mongrelhalfbreedobern West (of the Missouri) River, yes. However, from Mobridge eastward there is a healthy amount of population and commerce even today. I could see Amtrak returning the "Aberdeen" one day from ABR-MSP as a state-supported train, should politics in Pierre ever moderate. It would be nice to have SD on the Amtrak map - one of only two states in the lower 48 to not have Amtrak service, and the only one to never have been on Amtrak's map - ever.
@@dmitze01 we are trying to get Amtrak back to Boise. It's a non partisan issue. The U.S. was wrong to dismantle the once great interurban systems within the major cities and destroy the city scape with unsightly car centric infrastructure and parking lots. Milwaukee road was green before green was even a word with electrified mainline. Greed got in the way of foresight for future generations. That's why all our cities are crumbling because they were built for cars and not people
I play around in simulators with a lot of "what if?" scenarios, reviving lines that were taken up. Interesting stuff to think about
These wonderful films should be digitally remastered, if possible.
Thanks for presentation, from Germany
You’re very welcome. Thank you for watching. As far as potential remastering goes, we agree that these films deserve to be enhanced, if possible. Greetings from the United States!
Live in UK but have learnt so much about the history of the Milwaukee Road over the last five years (started with n scale model of the Olympian Hi and has grown from there, both models and books 😁). Various versions of miss-management, not upgrading equipment and cars, not seemingly keeping the money for essential maintenance of equipment and the right of way, turning extra business down - all of it seems so unique to this railroad. From here, both in geography and time, seems to add a bit of charm and mystique to what was there, what could of been and the memories of those who worked and lived around the Milwaukee Road. Lovely video.
Well said, Chris. There certainly is a mystique around the Milwaukee Road, especially Lines West. The downward spiral of the Pacific Extension was quite unfortunate. We’re sure you’ve read all the history and theories surrounding the Milwaukee’s downfall, so we’ll just leave it there. We appreciate you watching and commenting.
I'll go ahead and chime in. I'm 52 and lived around former Milwaukee employees. From the outside and those who weren't around, it appears that management historically took a dim view of Lines West and never saw its potential and therefore let it fail. Being the last transcontinental line to arrive out west, they had a definite disadvantage historically for generating traffic. What made the Milwaukee unique was they were the only transcontinental to have its very own direct route to the major railroad terminal hub, Chicago. Everyone else dead ended in the Twin Cities of Minnesota or Omaha,NE. Those lines were dependent on Midwestern US railroads to get the goods to Chicago. Once the mergers of the 1970's were allowed so these other railroads could gain direct routes to Chicago, the only route that had less miles to Chicago and potentially could beat the others on the time tables was the Milwaukee. This was a major threat to the newly formed Burlington Northern. It just seems odd that the desperate Milwaukee would hire into top management executives from the BN starting around 1972 and 1974. I imagine the intent was these people would have new ideas to breathe life and vision into the ailing railroad, having come from the successful BN. The ICC granted several gateways in the Northwest and a large portion of container traffic at Port of Seattle to the Milwaukee to help them compete with the much stronger BN with its better infrastructure. Traffic did improve for a time in the early 1970's but employees I have talked with said they noticed seeming purposeful measures to cut maintenance and neglect infrastructure. As stated in the video, the Milwaukee seemed to make efforts to fail at New opportunities. In 1978, following their last bankruptcy and receivership into the Trustee, and after it was decided by the Trustee to embargo Lines West, an audit was done on the books. They had to do it twice because what they found was all maintenance and overhead expenses for Lines West were doubled. Had the figures been entered correctly, a small profit would have been still reflected for the Pacific Extension. It seems someone was determined to kill the Western Extension. If it was the company just trying to hasten the demise of a segment that management had always looked down upon or one of the greatest examples of industrial espionage is only for those interested to argue. In my book, I'd say that in James Hill's grand style of screwing the competition, those former BN execs went to the Milwaukee to ensure the Pacific Extension would never be a threat to the newly formed Burlington Northern. The Milwaukee's demise gave the BN a complete monopoly across the most Northern United States between Chicago and Seattle/Tacoma. Sounds suspicious to me.
A railroad that I never seen in real life but the colors and scenery keep bringing me back to see more
There’s just something about the Milwaukee Road that draws you in. Thank you for taking the time to watch the video.
Might Play by Ear Rene Lee
Wow this is awesome, thank you!! A great way to end my friday night 👍👍👍
You’re very welcome! We’re glad that you found the video. Thank you for watching.
1:10:51 Winlock WA is on the former NP Tacoma-Portland mainline (now BNSF). MILW got trackage rights on the line into Portland as a condition of the 1970 BN merger. Crews absolutely loved the smooth track-quite a contrast to their lumpy right of way.
We noticed that the track was much better there! Thank you for pointing that out.
The Milwaukee Road in the Rocky Mountains... one of my favourite abandoned railroads! It was certainly unique. The final days of the electric locomotives coincided with the final episode of The Brady Bunch and the final month of the Nixon presidency!
You sure do know your history, MJ! A lot was happening around that time, for better or worse. We can appreciate your interest in the Milwaukee Road and Lines West. That piece of railroad just had a certain mystique. Thank you for watching and commenting.
In the words of James Coffey:
*"NOW HERE IT COMES"*
0:21
HE SAID THE LINE
😋 MMMM yummy EP-4 locomotive
I just wish we had footage like this east of Harlowton. The Aberdeen and Trans-Missouri divisions were “flyover” country to Milwaukee aficionados back then.
Thank you, Dan. We agree that South Dakota, North Dakota, and eastern Montana deserved more attention. It’s a special piece of railroad. Which is exactly why we decided to cover it in the BNSF era. We plan on releasing Milwaukee Road films covering that territory after we iron out an agreement with the owner of the footage. Stay tuned!
Milwaukee Road Electrics! Thank You
You’re welcome! Thank you for watching.
I would have liked to see films of the Milwaukee Road electric operations in Washington State!
Can't get enough of the Milwaukee Road!
Having a huge soft spot for D&H, N&W (my love for US railroads started with these two), RDG, LV, WM, NYNH&H and GM&O....
I have nearly 100 books about Milwaukee Road, some made by the company itself, I've got all their issues of their 1969 company magazine (I was born that year), I've got an original manual for their FT diesels (in great shape, I only need a set of FT's now!😉) plus a bucket and a lantern from before they were the Milwaukee Road....Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul, oh...I've also got a map from 1919!
So, you could say that I'm a tad obsessed with Milwaukee Road, America's Resourceful Railroad!
Such a shame that she's no longer with us, but in memory! 🥺😥
Greetings from a Swede in Glasgow, Scotland!
Oh....I'll definitely add this one to my DVD's! 👍🏻👌🏻👏🏻
It’s great to hear of your passion for US railroads, including the great Milwaukee Road! We love (and greatly miss) the Milwaukee as well. Thank you for writing, and we hope you enjoy our videos. Greetings from Minnesota, USA!
I live in Three Forks Montana (since Nov 2023). I want to learn and document more on the Milwaukee Road in its' current state and show what the right-of-way looks like in this current day...
As I’m watching this I’m zooming in on google earth to place names mentioned in the video. Seems much of it is 2 track jeep trail with no other access. 2 track jeep trails often come with private property locked gates, fallen trees, unpassable obstructions, blocked tunnels, etc.. Not for me I guess. 16 mile canyon sounds interesting.
We encourage you to do so! You can view the right-of-way from public property at many locations across Montana. Accessing it legally is another story. However, there are sections that are open to the public. Thank you for watching, and enjoy your journey along the Milwaukee Road!
This is so amazing. Thank you so much!!!!!! ❤❤❤❤❤
We’re glad that you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching.
Thx. I live right above the River Sub, now CP. Wish it was still MR or Soo.
Thanks for watching, Bob! And yes, the Milwaukee Road and Soo Line are sorely missed by many, us included.
2:37 I'm amazed MILW used mid-train DPUs regularly 25 years before the other railroads did! It seems like every freight train has mid-train DPUs since about five years ago
There were a few railroads doing that in the 1970s. The technology was far from perfect, so it didn’t really catch on back then. Today, distributed power is the name of the game.
It was called locotrol.
Me to the owners of the Railroad lines today:
“Bring it Back. Bring back the Milwaukee Road RIGHT NOW!!”
The return of the Milwaukee Road would be a dream come true! They could start by rebuilding the route featured in this video…
wount work
Electrification will help with Climate Change.
@@dknowles60, It won’t work unless people get smart and decide that Electrification is actually good for the environment.
@@rottenroads1982 the Us did not have the electricity in 1974 for Electrification, it still dont have the cap in 2024 for Electrification
Now we can finally be a part of this historic time period
Hopefully these films take you there! We appreciate you watching and commenting.
Excellent video! Thank you.
Thank you for watching it! We’re glad that you enjoyed the video.
Beautiful video. Thanks for making.
Thank you, John! You’re very welcome. We’re glad that you enjoyed the video.
Watched every second of this!
We appreciate you watching the entire video! It means a lot to us that these videos are being enjoyed by you and many others.
I bought an mth little joe and bipolar both in o scale. They are solid brass and quite amazing. I can only imagine seeing them in action. To see a pair of Joes in action must have been amazing. Probably my favorite electric locomotives.
We’ve taken a liking to those Little Joes as well. Especially after working with this footage again. It’s great that you have them in O scale. Even if the Little Joes never operate again in real life, at least they can operate in miniature form. Thank you for the comment.
I just love the Pacific Northwest I have been Billings to Seattle on a Greyhound a few time very very beautiful You have footage from off of the beaten path
Thank you for watching! And yes, it is a very beautiful region. As for the remoteness of these areas, you could say that the Milwaukee Road took the path less traveled…
A great thank to share this video which is a testimony of this wonderful and unique railway in the word. The last transcontinental railway was a masterpiece of the American railroad network which disappeared under the effect of very poor management (William John Quinn the last chairman who knew nothing about railroad and operation was primarly responsible of the banckruptcy). This video is exceptional because it shows some locations that have never been showed before in others videos and show some scenic points where I never find photos. A mistake howether : at 8:35, the curve and tunnel are located at west of Maudlow near Deer Park siding, not east of Maudlow.
Thank you very much for the kind words. It’s a real shame that the Milwaukee Road’s Pacific Extension wasn’t prioritized for maintenance dollars in the 1970s. The route was masterfully engineered. As for the graphic, we noticed that too. You’re correct on all counts.
I saw the Milwaukee Road catenary before it was cut down. I just missed the last days of electric operation in the early 1970's.
We’re glad that you were able to see it before the catenary was gone. It was an impressive structural web of wire, metals, and wooden poles. If only it had survived a bit longer… Thank you for the comment.
I love the Milwaukee road little joes
We do too! Those are some awesome electrics… Thank you for watching.
Always great to see some ones film of the Milwaukee. Good that you showed Washington State trackage with a diesels, but, how bout doing a show on the Milwaukee Electrics in the state. Going thru the deserts of central Washington State and climbing up into the Cascade Mountains and going thru Snoqualmie Pass and drifting down thru the Green River and into Renton and onto Seattle and Tacoma. Would be different since they used different electrics.
Lack of film footage?
Thank you, William. We are grateful for the films that Mr. Pope has shared with us. We agree that footage of the electrics further west would have been incredible to see. You can bet dollars to donuts that if we had any of that footage, we would share it with everyone as soon as we could. We have more Milwaukee Road footage to release in the future, but it doesn’t include anything in Washington. We appreciate the comment.
Washington is tough for vintage film. I'd love more Great Northern to appear.
@@aghostofthenow7135 So would I, and also the Northern Pacific would be great along with the Milwaukee. It seems the great pacific northwest is a forgotten corner of the railroad world.
I was raised in eastern Montana in the 1950-60’s and remember the Milwaukee Road . My grandparents lived in Forsyth, MT where there was Milwaukee train station (no passengers) and saw a lot of trains roll thru the area. Also, driving to Forsyth from Glendive, the train tracks could be seen from the highway. Always was excited, when we saw a Milwaukee train rolling over the prairie landscape. Quite a scene. I think about all the Montana railroads (Northern Pacific was my favorite) as I get older.
Thank you for sharing those memories with us, Robert. Seeing the Milwaukee Road and Northern Pacific in eastern Montana would be a dream for many. We’ve explored the area many times, and always pay our respects to the old Milwaukee Road right-of-way as we pass through. We appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment.
amazing
Thank you very much!!! We’re glad that you enjoyed the video.
Hard to imagine that something as big and complex as a railroad could go to crap so quickly. Sad chapter in American business history.
You got that right, Tommy. The only positive was that things really didn’t get worse. After 1980, railroads began to rebuild themselves while working toward the goal of financial viability.
Great old films
Thank you very much!
My late Dad Steve Schmollinger had a lot of photos of the Milwaukee Road in Avary Idaho
Rest in Peace
Milwaukee Road
❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
We’ve seen his photographs. They are excellent. Your father always picked fascinating subjects to cover. Thank you for sharing, Alex.
Your Dad was a great videographer for AT&SF back in 1993 at a Santa Fe Convention My Wife & I attended, I can never forget Your Dad's Presentation, it was unbelievable in My mind, Thank You!
I spent many youthful years in the Butte area. I came into the seen a little to late to have many memories of my own though I do remember the BA&P, however I do have handful elder folks in my family who often told stories of the railroads in Montana, & Silver Bow. I do have a Grand Uncle who was a Milwaukee Road Conductor out of Deer Lodge. I also have an Aunt who was involved in the selling of copper wire used in the centenary. Would of loved to see the Milwaukee in action back this nice to see, I'm enjoying viewing it. I'm currently in train service for one of majors so I'm familiar with everything offered recent the recent few decades. If there any old heads out there I'd be a little curious how the Milwaukee Road electrics rode? We're they steady pulling or jerky? What sorta things were problematic, what was nice? What sorta things made you scratch your head, & ask yourself what were builders thinking when they came up with this or that whatever? Just curious thanks in advance!
Thank you very much for sharing. We wish that we could answer your questions, but there isn’t too much information available about the performance of those old electrics. We’ve heard that they were good pullers, but that’s about it. Anyone with further information is invited to chime in.
Thank you from St Paul ❗live 100' from line into Ford plant...1939 to2012 ( last trains)75 yrs in MSP,chased the mrd 65 yrs👍👍
You’re welcome. We’re glad that you enjoyed the video. We miss seeing trains on the Ford Line. Thanks for watching, and long live the Milwaukee Road!
cool
Thank you, Paul!
Love these " little Joe's"-- creatively named by its workers similar to the name big boy, the Milwaukee riad was a innovative pioneer in electric locomotive, especially in the rural areas , something very few countries achieved back tgen. Very sad what happened to the Milwaukee road, it was all avoidable, thank you for this great video, it shows what electric trains can do, even in remote areas, I wish they still had them. Agsin, great job, much thanks
Thank you for the kind words, and also for your thoughts on the electrics employed by the Milwaukee Road. They were powerful locomotives that could have provided the Milwaukee many more years of service, had they been given the opportunity.
i had read a long time ago where the locs were meant to goto old earth soviet union, but along came the cold war and the mlw got them instead. little joes were named after joseph stalin
"Little Joe' referred to Russia's Joseph Stalin. Those electrics were built for Russia but the Cold War stopped their delivery. MILW bought most of them after they were regauged from 5 feet to Standard Gauge. Chicago South Shore and Brazil also got some.
20 "Little Joes" were made altogether: 12 went to the Milwaukee, 5 went to Brazil and 3 went to Chicago South Shore & South Bend.
This is an amazing archive of footage of the Milwalkee. I wish it was still in business today. Ya know, they existed in eastern Montana too. I wish there was some footage of the switch yard and round house in Miles City and the part that followed the Musselshell far east of 16 Mile canyon. There were so many little eastern Montana towns that depended on the Milwalkee.
We agree, Pete. Eastern Montana would have been worth covering. There were so many neat places along the Milwaukee’s mainline that just never got the attention they deserved. We appreciate you mentioning Miles City. There was a surprising lack of coverage between Terry and Forsyth along the Yellowstone River.
I had an aunt & uncle that used to ride the Olympian Hiawatha from Milwaukee to Seattle, because my uncle business required him to. I still have some of the things my aunt saved for me like a brink stirer that says Olympian Hiawatha nothing finer on rails, made of solid glass. & a. Deck of cars from the 1938 Olympian Hiawatha, which I cherish,
My aunt rest her soul would tell me how people would dress up to travel , intense days she said they would play canasta & bridge in the lounge cars, also she would tell me about how sumptuous the meals were also how attentive the waiters were ,in the lounge cars if woman took a cigarette out they would light it for her , & always keep a fresh ash try near by, those days are gone forever, how I wish they would return,
I use to be a member of the Milwaukee Road Historical Society
Thanks, Bill. They seem to be a great group! Lots of history being preserved and shared there.
Epic selfie at 56:30. I don't think that engineer was ready for his close-up, though.
Thank you for pointing that out! Mr. Pope really put in some effort to get that view. And yes, the engineer wasn’t prepared to be in the limelight. We appreciate your comment.
I know there were limits on sound in those days, but I work in that medium and desperately want to hear what I’m seeing.
We completely understand. The sound of these electrics working with diesels to surmount Pipestone Pass must have been something to behold. If only we could go back to 1974 with today’s equipment… Nevertheless, we are very grateful that these films exist. The Milwaukee Road lives on in Mr. Pope’s work. Thank you for the comment.
With the tracks gone, is Sixteen Mile Canyon accessible at all?? T 'would've made a spectacular tourist line through there...
Sounds like it is accessible to the private land owners that use the right-of-way for access. There is very limited public access to that section of the Milwaukee’s Pacific Extension. And yes, Sixteen Mile Canyon would have been a fantastic location for a tourist railroad. It just wasn’t meant to be.
Somebody has a video on YT of the driving on the old ROW through there.
Ted Turner (Warner Bros/CNN fame) owns land up there and it's strictly off-limits.
rest in power Milwaukee road electrification
Yes! If only the Milwaukee Road could have kept the electrification going a little longer… What a shame it was to have lost so much valuable infrastructure. Thank you for the comment.
Wow , nice!,0:21
Thank you, Mark!
This comment section is going to get filled with memes. I can smell them coming already...
Perhaps. We’ll see how the ship sails, as they say. Thanks for watching!
Does anyone have any links to how the operation of electric notching, and how the DPU worked between electric and diesel units?
Great vidio for modelers thats all you can do now. Out BH.
Thank you, Brian! We’re glad that you enjoyed the video.
The abandonment of this line was such a huge loss. Not only does it go through some of America's best scenery, but the potential the route could've had if it was saved would have been tremendous.
I love this route, its history, and its scenery so much, that I created a fictional railroad that operates from Miles City to Tacoma with the idea: "What if the Pacific extension had been saved at the last minute by a group of investors who saw its potential as a trunk route from the pacific coast to the midwest, and was still in use today?"
We agree wholeheartedly. The abandonment of this line was a major loss to all of us. It is true that we have managed to operate our US rail system for 43 years without it, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t have potential. Sign us up for a spot on the board for your Miles City to Tacoma railroad. We’d love to be a part of it! Thank you for your comment.
This is an excellent video that displays an impressive engineering achievement in an exceptional environment. It illustrates the vision and achievements of those who conceptualized, designed and operated the Milwaukee Road. I am afraid that, by neglecting our past instead of protecting it, we are effectively destroying our future. 2024/04/17. Ontario, Canada.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful and well written comment. We couldn’t have said it better ourselves. The Milwaukee Road’s Pacific Coast Extension was marvelously engineered, and expertly operated. Gone too soon. We appreciate you taking the time to watch this video.
@@CVisionProductions1 Noted with thanks. I am always saddened by the fact that, in our North-American society, there are always plenty of "political will" and public monies for highways, whereas the more environmentally acceptable railways are considered as bare essentials that can readily be abandoned based of very myopic "economic" considerations. 2024/04/26.
You’re welcome. It’s unfortunate when the public, and even the railroads themselves, don’t believe in preserving our precious rail network. That was especially true during the 1970s and 1980s. Thankfully, the situation has stabilized since then, but growth is minimal. Thank you for your insights.
Ive spent 2 yrs fly fishing in Montana. I was blown away at the huge mountains & wide open country, seeing Rail link trains. But I forgot about Milwaukee Rd. I dont know where all this RR.was but it is ashame it was not re cycled . What a tragedy.😢
In my travels,I do remember driving through a canyon & finding a station with passenger cars. I think one was N.P. & a Milw road car. But the line to & from was gone. Didnt know what i was seeing.
Just ashame. How do you just rip up such a beautiful RR. ? Urg
Although the Milwaukee Road battled some significant grades through Montana, their route benefited from excellent engineering. It was built later than both the GN and NP routes, which had both advantages and disadvantages for the Milwaukee Road. The main disadvantage was having third pick at potential right-of-ways. The obvious advantage was 20th-century engineering and construction. And we do agree, the abandonment of Milwaukee Road’s “Lines West” went down in history as one of the greatest losses in American Railroading. We appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment.
Thinks to Trucking and the Interstate highway.
Strong competition from the Burlington Northern didn’t help either. It was a losing battle, unfortunately.
Thank you so much for this fucking fantastic and wonderful upload of the historical footage of the Milwaukee Road my dear friend C Vision Productions. This is not an official upload, therefore I cannot endorse it, however I am in grate gratitude of your act of Kind Gesture in this world that we live in filled with PTC and Other Rail road issues. The Milwaukee Road will always stand as a pillar of hope in the rail landscape and it stands as a reminder to us all that all hope is not lost when it comes to picking up your camera, your reflective vest, your BaoFeng railroad radio, your CSX hard hat, your Milwaukee Road License Plate cover, your Knuckle Coupler to place atop the trailer hitch on your car, the illegal K5LA mounted underneath your vehicle, the Milwaukee Trademarked Tool set, the SD Cards (AT LEAST 64 TB), the Montana, Montana, It will be a great time. Railfans Are truly the Saviors of this great country. God bless the railfans. William J Quinn would be very proud of you all at the great C Vision Productions for this fantastic upload if you would please upload it a second time so that the world can be introduced to the Milwaukee Road in the same way I was when I created the Milwaukee Road. And thank you to your narrator guy who does the voice on this video, He is an inspiration to us all. God bles milwaukee Road. Fantastic.
God bless the Milwaukee road
I mean he’s got a point like fr
cringe but theres a decent point in there somewhere
"Montana, Montana, It will be a great time" - what about "Big Sky Country" ?
Might Play by Ear
It’s unfortunate many train photogs back then shot only the locomotives not even a 16th of the train. There was so much thought in the design of boxcars with their fonts, color, and patterns; they all had their identities. Yes, would’ve been nice to see them. Today boxcars are all pretty much gone! Nothing but containers! BORING!!
Classic freight cars and their imaginative paint schemes were a big part of what made trains in that era so interesting. Often times, photographers shooting movies would try to conserve their film, resulting in much of the train being left out, which is unfortunate. There are some interesting freight cars today, but we agree that there is far less focus on how they are painted. As long as they’re functional, freight car owners seem to be satisfied. Thank you for your comment.
Wisconsin & Michigan Memories is a C Vision show containing many old freight cars.
Even if the MILW had survived as a railroad, I doubt that the electric territory would have stayed as is. Today's diesel locos can easily handle the grades and you would have eliminated crews, maintenance, etc. Hindsight is a wonderful function. When AMTRAK took over the long distance trains, they were supposedly given dispatch priority over the freight trains. Don't think it worked then, certainly doesn't work today. Interesting to see that the "Little Joe" locos had an operating cab at one end. The other end had no windshield; don't know what that end was used for.
Once the Milwaukee Road turned down GE’s proposal to renew and upgrade the railroad’s electric operations, it was over. We believe that GE’s proposal was offered in 1969. But it’s certainly interesting to imagine how the Milwaukee Road would be operating these lines today. Thank you for the comment.
Management sabotaged the electric operations, when they did the bankruptcy audits the numbers didn’t make any sense. The electrified portions of the line should’ve been some of the most profitable areas of Milwaukee Road.
ww32: And that is why the mysterious happenings within the Milwaukee Road during the 1970s have been the subject of so much discussion and scrutiny. Although traffic volumes weren’t terribly high, and the infrastructure needed significant upgrades to allow for safe operations, it is still baffling that the Milwaukee would willingly give up all of their long-haul traffic on the Pacific Extension, instead of making some effort to save it. The bankruptcy played a big role in how things went down, but it doesn’t make the abandonment of Lines West any easier to accept.
@@ww32 Electrification to be profitable, and mainly to get RoI, need high volume traffic. MILWK, in the end, just didn't have the volume as they switched from numerous short fast trains to few long and slow trains.
Da Milwaukee Road.
You have found the home of the Milwaukee Road. Thanks for watching.
Would enhance the quality of the film if it was processed through a de-shaker program but I don’t know how much time it would take to do that and how expensive it would be.
It’s really odd that Lombard Montana is no more than some building footings, it’s essentially gone. Would be an interesting tourist town if it was rebuilt,,,, I’m sure that would take millions of dollars.
You’re right about the potential reprocessing. Often times it will produce something better than the original. Not all video processing technology is created equal, however. We appreciate the suggestion. As for Lombard, it truly is a neat place. The main issue is access. Getting there is a chore, and you always want to avoid trespassing whenever possible. But yes, Lombard is absolutely worthy of more attention. Thanks, Boyd.
We can only imagine how much traffic would be running on this line today had it survived. The other two Montana transcons are operating at or above capacity! One of the dumbest abandonments ever, brought on by piss poor management.
One has to wonder how things would have been different if the Milwaukee Road had the resources necessary to maintain their track out west. It is highly likely that significantly more traffic would have been moving over the line, had the track been in better condition with trains operating at higher speeds. It’s hard to run a railroad at slow speeds while you’re having frequent derailments -often in rugged terrain. What a sad fate that line suffered. Thank you for the comment.
Remember, they got a large traffic boost as part of the agreement conditions of the BN merger. And they subsequently lost most of it due to massive time delays and derailments from the poor track. One of the most poorly run/mismanaged railroads I’ve ever seen.
Does anyone know if the boxcar that was wrecked and left behind I think some where in Donald Montana is still there i rlly want to know bc i love finding abandoned railroad on google maps i been following the milwaukee railroad on google maps from start to end and i love the history and remains but im curious if the boxcar wreck near Pipestone montana is still there if u find it let me know plz
We’re not sure on that, Jacob. However, we do know that several wrecked freight cars were left behind after the route was abandoned. Thank you for watching the video.
Buy and maintain a transcontinental railroad for two passenger trains a day? And most of the railroad was under slow orders at the end. Sure.
By the end, the line was too far gone. If the Milwaukee Road could have started investing in their west end lines around 1970, railroad history may have been written quite differently. Pre-Staggers, the railroad simply didn’t have the funds to reinvest in their network. Combine that with the intense competition from Burlington Northern, and you’ve got a real struggle on your hands. Especially with the railroad already operating in the red.
Puget sound "Gateway Privilege" did little to help Milwaukee Road compete after BN merger was approved.
James J. Hill allegedly wanted a partner to connect to Chicago from St. Paul , Milwaukee Road wasn't interested or lost out to Burlington Route.
They didn't set any speed records did they...In 1974 they (the rank & file) already knew that the Milwaukee Road was going bankrupt. When they de-electrified this line and scrapped it like one of their old locomotives, it was so they could sell all the copper (then worth millions) which would temporarily help their bottom line, I have read. The MILW had another electric line that went from Tacoma to Othello that crossed the Columbia river at Beverly. That bridge is now part of the famous Rails to Trails system where you can walk or bicycle all the way across the river there.If you're ever going by there you should stop and check it out as Beverly is only a few miles off I-90. It's worth the visit!!! There's videos here on YT regarding that bridge so check those out too.
Excellent comment. Interesting information about the copper. That actually makes a lot of sense. Still very shortsighted, but at least they had a reason for scrapping the electrification. Regarding Beverly, we visited the town in 2019. Quite frankly, it was amazing. The river, the bridge, the landscape, and the old right-of-way. So much incredible Milwaukee Road history there.
E72 looks as if it had its cab painted over on one end, yes? Why so?
George, from our understanding, the Milwaukee Road was only maintaining the cab on one end of the locomotive. They opted to paint over the cab that was no longer being used.
The Milwaukee continually evolved these locos adding MU control for trailing diesels and various other improvements. One of these required electrical changes and the B-end cab controls were taken out to create extra space. The windows were then plated over. There is an excellent Wikipedia page about these locos. Amazing to think that each of these locos was equivalent in power to a Big Boy!
They should give Amtrak another $2 billion to re-lay and own the Milwaukee Road.
Whatever it takes to resurrect the Milwaukee’s Pacific Extension. We’d love to see it.
There are scars of this line that can be seen from I-90 east of Butte. There are even old signals. May be rattlesnake infested.
That’s pretty incredible. We’ve noticed many lineside poles that are still standing as well. We’ll see how long it all lasts. Thank you, Richard.
So the electric locomotives can power the diesel electric locomotives or no?
No, sir. They cannot. The diesels would respond to commands given to them by the electrics, but the diesels were operating under their own power.
@@CVisionProductions1 Thank you
You’re welcome.
They could’ve modernized the electrical system and got new locomotives. Unfortunately, the power was turned off in 1974 just before the oil crisis.
GE offered to close the gap of non electrified line between Othello, WA and Avery, ID and convert it to AC which was more reliable. The Milwaukee turned the offer down.
How they allowed this transcontinental line to be abandoned is something that always baffles me. Today, with the other lines above capacity, this would’ve been a crucial freight or passenger route.
Thank you for your insight. It almost seemed like the management of the Milwaukee Road wanted to get out of the railroad business. Granted, 1970s railroading wasn’t easy. Turning a profit was nearly impossible, which made strong (and competent) leadership that much more important. In the end, the Burlington Northern was more than happy to accept every bit of traffic lost by the Milwaukee Road. We’ll leave it at that. We appreciate your comment.
track in to bad of shape
What they should have done actually in the 1960s-1970s is ask the Italians Spaniards Yugoslav Railways Slovenian division PKP Poland and the belgians on how to modernize their existing 3KV DC systems remember these countries were inspired by the Milwaukee Railroad for their 3kv DC systems. The Italians actually made their 3kv dc Copper Strip 1.45m length compatible with Switzerland 15kv 16.7hz AC wires. That would have enabled it to survive the oil crisis by testing out their locomotives and then asking EMD or GE to license produce them for the Milwaukee Railroad. However they would be forced by Amtrak to go 25kv 60hz AC for passengers services. Wire clearance wise it needs to be Reading RR style to permit Double stacks
We’ll take your word for it! Thank you for the detailed comment.
They could have probably stayed afloat if they didn’t abandon the power lines during the oil crisis would have Ben more efficient than all the other railroads.
It certainly could have helped if they had kept the electrification going for a little longer. The poor decisions being made by the Milwaukee’s management during those years have been noted by many fans and historians. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter.
Why did Milwaukee Road in 1974 get rid of and replace their environmentally friendly electric locomotives for dirty, gross, and smelly diesel locomotives?
Considering the countless questions and mysteries surrounding the downfall of the Milwaukee Road, we don’t really know where to start. Many of the decisions that were made in the railroad’s final years were downright baffling.
because they're cheaper? And don't cause that much damage as electrics?
Don’t let anyone tell you the US is too big for electrification of the railroads
It could work very well on certain lines. Especially for sections of railroad with long tunnels. If cost wasn’t a factor, you would probably see US railroads operating select territories “under the wire”. However, that’s just speculation on our part. The only other question we have is how much capacity would a system like that have? As in, if the route had a significant number of freight trains per day, could the electrical system keep up with demand? That would require a lot of juice! Thanks for the comment.
THE MILWAUKEE ROAD 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The “famous” piece of narration… Thanks for watching.
Nothing is mentioned about the rattlers in 16 mile canyon.
Interesting. There must be a story behind this. We’d love to hear it if you care to share.
From the 1970s I’m guessing 🤔
Yes, you are correct. Shortly before the Milwaukee Road ended their electrification of “Lines West”. Thank you for watching.
The Pacific Extension would be kissed goodbye in 1980 after falling into bankruptcy.
We wish that things could have turned out differently. It’s unfortunate that the Milwaukee Road didn’t feel that the Pacific Extension was worth saving. A beautiful railroad, lost.
FYI, if you truly want to see just how poorly managed this whole railroad was, I suggest reading Thomas Ploss’ “The Nation Pays Again.” The sheer amount of stupidity from the Milwaukee’s management is mind boggling. He should’ve subtitled the book “How NOT to run a railroad.” It left me shaking my head and repeating the phrase “you have got to be kidding me” numerous times.
Thank you for the suggested reading. If not for the boots on the ground, the railroad would have completely collapsed. So much potential, lost to poor management and tough economic times. We appreciate the comment.
28:03 Look at the tank car bouncing! It's clear the C.M.St.P.&P. was not a prosperous road, the deteriorated track is an unmistakable sign of ill health.
The Milwaukee Road was a great railroad. Unfortunately, a series of poor decisions in a highly-regulated environment led to the collapse of an empire. Thanks for watching.
A wasted resource.
Agreed. We’ll never truly get over the loss of this magnificent piece of railroad. We’re grateful that the right-of-way has been preserved in many places, but that isn’t quite enough of a consolation. Thank you for watching.
Man, if Milwaukee Road kept the electrification, then Conrail will most likely electrified the entire U.S. even if the oil crisis happen and THAT happen (Alternative history), the Amtrak and even the entire U.S rail would be Nationalized! Just like the one in Europe or Japan.🥲
It’s interesting to ponder the possibilities. Thank you for the comment.
Like i said before... The BNSF Got Exactly What They Wanted . RId Of The Competiton , If only the Milwaukee Had Better Management . And A merger with the S.P.
Bingo, Brad. The BN had a plan. And unfortunately for the Milwaukee Road, the plan worked. A Milwaukee/SP merger would have been quite interesting!
@@CVisionProductions1 All the employees. Especially on the Pacific extension , Should've retained a team of attorneys and Sapennae all the financial documents from the previous 10 year's. They would've seen that the Road was actually making lots of money. Also drag the former BN. Management into federal court . For sabotaging the Company on purpose. It was very obvious that was what they did .
That may have turned out to be a worthwhile endeavor. The employees did everything they could to keep the railroad running, short of mounting a legal challenge to their employer’s accounting practices. That would have been quite the spectacle had they done it!
Merger with SP only looks good on a paper map. By the very late early 80s SP was marginal, even losing money sometimes, and that was with dollars thrown into the railroad's income from both its real estate and Sprint Long Distance Telephone subsidiaries. Merging and upgrading the busted Rock Island Tucumcari track was work enough for that San Francisco crew, with Sprint crying for more attention and bucks. Elsewhere, combing two marginals to make one big studnuts winner had been tried before with results from iffy (IC and GM&O) to disaster (Erie and DL&W) (PRR, NYC, New Haven). And those guys had the duplication/redundancy argument.
Agreed, the current northern transcon lines are at capacity plus, so that MILW line looks juicy now. Perhaps landbanking all of it would have made a lot of sense, seems practical, and is a shame it was not done. Yet that MILW line was cashiered ---- count em ---- a HALF CENTURY ago, so saying that someone should have kept it operationally going through the decades when the traffic was sparse is foolish. Anyone here likes to work for free? 4 decades worth of free?
The Japanese automakers thought BN was bending them over rate wise, and looked at (perhaps only half seriously) at buying MILW to give the finger to BN. Even with cheap interest rates available, it was scuttled.
As for BN getting what they wanted, everyone looks out for their self interest despite the childhood preacher and Boy Scout den mother saying otherwise. At least they weren't sneaky about it, as they tried it twice before the final 1970 Jimmy Hill merger.