I'm still haunted by the New Sun quartet...and I read it over 25 years ago. I'm re-reading or rather, listening to it on Audible....such rich language and the alien world of Urth is beckoning me.....and yeah.....I re read it 3 times( in the 90s), just to fully understand everything and I had the Lexicon Urthus to help me, too. I'm still making discoveries as I'm going through it even now..so yeah, if you've never read it and want a challenge....get to it.......Cheers,
Just finished my first reread, four years after the first read. Still buzzing. You're a gent for addressing the tragic lack of Wolfe and particularly New Sun content on YT, The Exemplar. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! (It's also a big plus to see this coming from a fellow Irish person. Subbed 👍)
Couple months ago made my first reading to Shadow of the torturer, and as a non-native speaker was really hard to read, but at the same time I had the most ominous and weird feel that I ever had on any book and now I'm just excited to do my second read to it.
I was just directed to your review of Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun and I’m so glad I watched. I picked up and read Shadow of the Torturer when it came out in mass market because of the Don Maitz cover. I worked at B Dalton back in the day, and afterwards, with a co-owner, had my very own Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Mystery bookstores. Turns out I tried a lot of new authors because of Maitz covers. I have since acquired all the New Sun and Long Sun books in first ed hardcover and had Gene sign them for me. Sorry but I am bragging. Gene came twice (TWICE!) to my little SF store to do signings. He was a scholar and a gentleman, and his love for Rosemary was palpable. I had the most immense pleasure to take him out to dinner and just hang. It was heaven. Given that I love the more literary style of writing, finding Wolfe’s work was life changing for me. See Tim Powers, Dan Simmons, Ian Banks…. Reading Shadow, I would finish a paragraph, sigh, then go back and read the paragraph again - it was just so beautifully written. I’m talking sentence structure, word choice… just spectacular. I could go on, I promise. What disturbed me at the beginning of your review is almost how apologetic you were sounding for Wolfe. Dictionaries are there for a purpose dang it - if you don’t know the word, look it up. Gene did not make up words! But I understand, I believe. Game of Thrones was a remarkable series of books - even though RR may never finish the series - dxxn it. I’ve been reading Martin since the beginning (I am old, I admit) and did have the chance to meet and talk with him not long after Fevre Dream was published. A good friend of mine was in WUV with GOT but her complaint when reading the first book was that it was “too detailed”. Well of course it was - it’s a book, not a tv show or movie. Almost makes we want to cry but the folks I know who are 20 to 30 years younger than me appear to have the attention span of a goldfish. I had to laugh when you warned your viewers that if you hated discussion or rumination you would not like Wolfe. That could not be more true with Wolfe. I loved Proust’s Remembrance of Things Past (I had to read it in English as the French passé simple tense was beyond me). Before I graduated, my Modernism professor told me that he hadn’t read Proust because Aldous Huxley likened that series to a man sitting in his own used bathwater and drinking it. I laugh every time I remember that. Wolfe is absolutely philosophical, but also theological. The Book of the Long Sun series is almost a Catholic treatise. Not my favorite part of that series, but certainly present. Let me know if you’d like a first ed HC of Pandora by Holly Hollander as I have a dup. Not signed but a first. Phoebe
Thanks for this video! I don't think I made it quite halfway when I stopped and went to buy the book. Now I'm past the first, started with The Claw of the Conciliator, and returning to your video. A lot of what you're saying has turned out true for my experience reading, and it's been a fantastic experience at that. I'm super thankful that I picked it up, and to you and this video for helping me pick it up sooner than I might have.
I wouldnt of started reading this book if I had heard it was so difficult to read. i just heard it was the best thing since slice bread so i bought it. Its now my favorite book of all time. Cant recommend it enough.
Thank you for this video! Gene Wolfe needs more attention in the media no doubt. I read the first 4 books when I was 17/18 and they blew my mind, although I didn't grasp a lot of the concepts then. It's time for a re-read.
I was deciding on which Sci-fi/Fantasy book I would read for 2021 and it looks like Shadow of the Torturer will have its priority! Thanks for posting this video, I'm finally convinced to start reading this dark jewel of fiction.
Just about finished with Sword of the Lictor and I absolutely adore the series. While I never really thought about it, everything you mentioned that's so great about the books (technically difficult language, big events that sneak up on you, beauty in the mundane, and rewarding re-reads) are all present in a lot of my favorite writing. I'm only mostly done with Sword of the Lictor but I think I can say that Book of the New Sun is not just great fantasy but great literature!
This has finally pushed me to start Gene Wolfe, thank you, i really enjoyed this. Please make similar videos for other authors or books you passionately can recommend, thank you
I have been hopping back and forth between Wolfe and Sanderson, and every time I go back to Sanderson (while I still think he is a genius) it feels like YA in terms of the prose. I love the difficult aspect of Wolfe's language. It brings to mind my studies of modernism. For me, I choose beauty over overt clarity. Brilliant video mate.
Definitely look up the words. Because it's quite often impossible to infer from the context alone, not to mention the book is so dense with these words you will often come across multiple new ones in a paragraph. If you want to understand what's going on it's probably a smart idea to google most of them for their meaning in the book of the new sun specifically. The lexicon Urthus isn't necessary, but I got it on my phone after finishing the first book and it was a major help for the rest of the series. Also as someone that loves ereaders and all their great functionality, the dictionary on your kindle likely won't cut it. Many of these words are so obscure and old they aren't in many dictionaries, and the only way to find their meaning is to google them. Even then sometimes they are ultra obscure and not in the immediate results. Which is why the lexicon Urthus is so incredible. I still have to read the Urth of the new Sun. I plan to wait a bit for that and maybe reread the main books of the BOTNS right after
Good analysis! I like to tell people that Wolfe is one of the few authors I've read who understand the power of subtlety, and has enough respect for his audience not to patronize them and spell out things for them. He lets the reader puzzle things out for themselves and it's all the more powerful for it. It's an amazing feeling when you have been reading a passage in the book, and suddenly it clicks into place with other clues and hints that have been dropped along the way, and then suddenly the depth and majesty of one of his ideas unfolds before you, and you are both humbled and exalted by the scope and grandeur of it, and you have to just stop and ponder for awhile...
Great video, I actually listened to a Gene Wolfe podcast as I read through the books for the first time this year. That helped me catch some of those things that would have gone over my head, and I don't regret doing that at all. I still have many complex feelings about the book, even knowing how it ends, and I look forward to sorting out for myself on a second read through. Chapters 16 and 17 of Sword of the Lictor are some of the most haunting things I've ever read, of all the things in these book that's what most got under my skin...and thinking about the kind of broken world Gene Wolfe created.
Alzabo Soup, they've finished the whole series by now but are great to read along with chapter by chapter. I'm also enjoy the Rereading Wolfe podcast but as it sounds...better for a reread.
Great video. Funny story: I grew up in Chile, but my mother is English. In Chile we didn't have access to that many books in English back then, so a few times a year my aunts in Australia would plunder the used bookstores there and send us a big boxful. They knew I loved fantasy and sci-fi, so they would always send a selection for me, but because they couldn't always find all the books in a particular series, I would often end up with a bunch of random books and just have to read them despite missing the other books in the series. In the case of 'The Book of the New Sun', it was 'The Sword of the Lictor'. So I actually read book three in the series twice before getting a copy of the other books years later. It's no surprise that there were many, many things I didn't understand. Now I just reread the whole series. Wasn't sure if I would still like it, but I really enjoyed it. I'm thinking about looking into the other Urth books, but I'm worried about being disappointed like when I started reading the Dune sequels and finally gave up, because I felt he lost the plot. Cheers!
Spoilers were as hard to avoid in the 80's as now. I had three ways to hear of this book, a friend's recommendation, picking it up in a library or bookshop or reading a review. It was the latter to me, and Dave Langford in White Dwarf magazine (pre-Warhammer)gave away a lot of the settings, even as he said he shouldn't. He wanted everyone to read it but not spoil that discovery. Thanks Gene and Dave, you pushed me out of genre reading into a general appreciation of great prose. Bonus: His books reward re-reading, a magnificent gift for the four decades of my life following.
Almost everything you've just said can be said about my favorite fantasy series Malazan Book of the Fallen. So I'm in, I love everything you've just said. I'll read this next after I'm finished with Pet Sematary.
And I hope that feeling is correct. Enjoy the journey, take your time, stop to think anytime you feel the need to. Re-read a page if it confuses you, maybe that confusion is intentional, maybe you've missed something. Have fun failing at figuring it all out!
Tracked down this vid since I'm enjoying a playthrough of Torment: Tides of Numenera, and the setting was definitely reminding me of the one Gene Wolfe book I've read so far, The Shadow of the Torturer, as well as a little of David Zindell and Vernor Vinge. I think what stopped me continuing the Wolfe series wasn't so much the language, which I appreciated, but trying to keep track of people's motivations to live their lives in that world, as well as the sheer cruelty of the "revolutionary" device, which stuck with me even years later. Not sure if things lighten up later, or at least if there's some triumph and accomplishment to offset the bleakness of things.
The Revolutionary device is particularly insidious, and the setting is undeniably grim. I think, in terms of people's motivations to keep living in that world, it's pretty simple. It's all they know. People strive to survive, regardless of circumstances, and if they can they will. We're a stubborn species. So I think I can reconcile that with myself pretty simply. Things in BotNS are never quite "light", but thing get brighter. There is a constant looming dread over the whole series, but likewise (and this shows more, arguably in Urth of the New Sun). I would say if you require some form of clear, unambiguous triumph at the end of your tale, then honestly it might not be for you. While there is joy to be found in the books, it is always tempered by an ever-present sadness, or dread. Trying to be spoiler free here is hard. There may be light at the end of tunnel, but what kind of light and whether that tunnel will be revealed to be thorn-ridden or cotton-rimmed? That's the fun of the read.
gads, i must be a difficult person. i'm reading this now and savoring every page. i find it utterly engaging. i have a lot of science fiction on my shelf, which may help. the archaic words are always used in context so it's easy to discern the meaning. it's may be puzzling to some readers to orient themselves in the time period, which can be described as medieval ultra high technology. we also learn immediately that Severian is a savant of memory that is writing a detailed memoir or 'future history' as i like to call it. (the Glass Bead Game comes to mind.) thus we are reading of a detailed account of events as they unfold and like reality itself, not everything ties together neatly. it is a linear account however, told from a photographic memory. we get clues, like the red sunshine, that it's so far in the future that the years are not counted but the ages, which pass into mist. it sure is easier to read than Chaucer. what he does is build a world, imagined hence, so far as to appear in the past. fantastic! technology seems magic. at this level, it sure would. but does society advance also? maybe not so much. if you think this is difficult try A Voyage to Arcturus. it will seem a piece of cake with mulled wine.
it reminded me of Hesse too! i read Anathem right after the Glass Bead Game and the coincidence blew my mind. i snagged them both from one of those corner library boxes, but in different neighborhoods. cloistered far future histories.
I tried Book of the New Sun twice and I can see there's something there worth digging for, but man is it a hard read...which is funny because straight after I read Malazan which is a 10-book series with a similar reputation and loved it. I actually started jotting down words I didn't didn't know and I think I reached like 20 words within the first 100 pages. I keep telling myself to just hunker down and just get through the initial hurdle because I always hear such high praise about these books. Maybe someday.
Twenty words in any one hundred pages of anything is pretty neat, you being either a walking dictionaro-phile or not very serious about jotting down everything; point being, piling up several hundred unknown words for one book, if you're consistent and meticulous, is a standard procedure if you're a non-native reading in foreign language (I've even had instances of books with wordlists for native audience where I knew the meaning of words considered as archaic by the authors - I'm talking English literature anthology book. That was neat). That probably doubles or triples in case of Wolfe, I myself am intending to read the book but first have to slay the TBR some. In fact, I regret not buying the complete Oxford English Dictionary (around ten volumes) that contains about every English word extant because my wife would probably slit my throat if I did (it's pretty pricey).
This was a very good synopsis of a very popular series. I'll try this story again, but with the Kindle. I'm guessing "One and Done" as a content creator?
Thank you. And no, not one and done. I've had my creativity focused in other areas since making this channel. But I definitely want to make more stuff for here. And I will. This year, probably. Check back in a few weeks.
Trust Wolfe, hold his hand and let him show you wonders. All his stories involve 'the unreliable narrator', Wolfe is an acquired taste, and of the four part 'The Book of the New Sun' at least read through the first part - 'Shadow of the Torturer', then think over what happened.
I’ve been reading and re-reading Wolfe and this series since I was 18 years old. I’m 54 now. Incomprehension is not magical. It’s better to know more about what’s going on.
For me the book of the new sun ends with sword of the lictor, which is so amazing I almost cried. The book is a miracle. The citadel of the autarch was a huge let down though, many strands left unanswered and soarly needing an editor. What the hell was he playing with 100 pages of people telling stories about fucking chickens after all the time we invested. The book seems like some kind of bizarre introspective reflection on himself. I wish he could have done that with another series and not his magnum opus. Still 100% worth reading the first 3.
I play a game called kenshi and saw this as a recommendation on the reddit. I listened to a bit, and it seemed interesting, but decided to click off since I am usually a reader. This overview has convinced me to buy copy and read it, this is probably the type of book I need to start enjoying fiction again. I would read Dune and all that, but I am young a busy and have decided to just get the spark notes and settle with youtube overviews, if I am going to start reading huge books again it's probably going to be in retirement.
I made the mistake of reading those books when I was 12/13 because the cover and title sounded so cool. And really struggling to appreciate them. As a teenager I wasn't ready to appreciate those books (also read Dune because the Lynch movie was so cryptic and fascinating).
I first heard “the ladder” I don’t even know if that’s spelled the right way or not but it means like either the better or the worse I’m still not sure and I do not feel like looking it up or anything like I understand it enough to sort of know what it means even though it could be the complete opposite but it’s just because in the context when someone says “I would choose the latter” it doesn’t really make sense because of course you’re going to choose the better one but is it in context of like what was said first orJust automatically you know what the better one is so obviously you’re going to be picking that one so I’ve heard that said in a couple of times I was like wait a minute but it sounds like you’re saying the worst but I know in context of what I have read before like in JK Rowling stuff it means you’re going to choose the better one but in like videos that I watch sometimes they’re picking the worst one and I’m like I’m so confused I’m still not looking it up butI’m pretty sure that I’m not gonna Google any of the words that are said in the book because I will be getting it on Audible so I’m not even going to know how to Google it because I won’t know how it’s spelled N I’ll just like sort of get it… I apologize Siri doesn’t know how to spell and I use her to write things all the time it’s very annoying
Think it might help to read Dune first. Then Song of Ice and Fire (not Game of Thrones, that was only one book in the series). After that, the Book of the New Sun. It will be an enjoyable high sci-fi /fantasy novel. And really people the story is not that complicated. Just enjoy the flow.
“everyone’s doing long shots, everyone’s doing an unreliable narrator” im not finding the results to my question with search engines: is “long shot” a trope in fiction? does it mean macro world building? please explain. thanks
I actually used a bit of a misnomer there. A long take would be a better phrase. As in, a continuous and unbroken shot in a film. To clarify what I meant, something that is cool and different can lose its lustre when overused. This doesn't mean that it still can't be as mind-blowing and interesting as it originally was when in the hands of a master in their craft; be it filmmaking (Long takes) or writing fiction in general (unreliable narrator).
One thing that gets on my nerves is criticism of Severian's treatment of women in Claw of the Concilator (the second half of "Shadow and Claw" in new editions) We learn from the start he was raised in a Torturers Guild, but you thought he'd turn out to be nice and instantly redeemed? Maybe that works in "Twilight" stories, not in Book of the New Sun!
The lexicon is great. The chapter guide by the same guy is lacklustre. It doesn't actually talk about themes, easter eggs etc it mostly focuses on literary inspirations for characters and things. And I'm pretty sure half of them are just speculation. I mean at times it was outright wrong. In others I discovered major things (like I discovered what I likely inspired the Mirrors of Father Irinire but that one, no one seems to realise or know. See "Kozyrev's mirror"). He's also wrong about who the missionaries are in the garden. He claims it's based on a book character. When it seems to be based on real life 19th century missionary Robert Moffat and his wife Mary who worked a lot with the Zulu. I found this myself suspecting they must have been based on real missionaries (Gene is a Catholic and these two have names from our time, read the Bible and are sitting in a tree hut with a Zulu medicine man) and found those two famous missionaries before I read the guy who wrote the chapter guide claim it's someone else that seems far more of a stretch.. Also wish some of the lexicon descriptions were better and more elaborate.
Hmmmm. I was interested in reading it...but - I Hate unknown language in books (THE reason I put down Stand on Zanzibar) - Not a big re-reader. (or maybe 10 years later). - Would like to conbtinue reading the next book...but if I feel I have to reread... - I've heard the 1st book is the best one... *** I am having doubts now if I should go and read this book.... should I, and can it be read as a stand alone? Cheers!
If I'm being personally honest, it doesn't seem like it would be the book for you. I dont think re-reading Wolfe is NECESSARY, but it does peel back layers of obscurity. Personally I got half way through the second book on my first read when something happened in the story that made me realise I had no idea what was going on, so I started the first book from scratch. That being said, I could see someone realising what I did, then just continuing with a keener eye. The first book is not the best to me, but I can see that argument being made for sure, but that's really just a matter of preference, they're one singular work in my eyes. Especially considering if you were to read only the first book, "Shadow of the Torturer", you would probably leave pretty unfulfilled considering the ending of it is notoriously abrupt. I think you start it, and if by 50-100 pages it is just not clicking at all in any way you could safely, and sadly, put it down. Sorry if this was a rambling mess, hope it has clarified at least something for you, haha. Have a good one!
@@theexemplar6679 Hey man, thanks for the long reply. Much appreciated. I have had it happen to me... when I read Peter F Hamilton's reality dysfunction. The first book was translated in Dutch to 2 books.. but also had an abrupt ending...when I contacted the publisher they told me they were not going to translate the 4 other books (later it became a trilogy of 3 books over 900 pages each in English). So I reread the first book (1200 pages) in English and then after a great 3 book read it having a Deus ex Machina ending was a bit of a let down...still a great series. Later works are much better...I am a big fan of his work. Cheers!
Answer to the question in the title: absolutely yes! Vocabulary, mood, unreliable narrator - tough first reading but very rewarding later and the series becomes even better upon re-read.
I’m a regular reader of SF & Fantasy since the mid 70s so I’m no stranger to these genres. Many years ago I read the 1st book in the series and did not like it at all. I guess I just can’t appreciate Gene’s style of prose.
So I got the books on audio bowl thanking that this would be a book like Harry Potter some fat is how this book for these books or portrayed to me and I just want to let you all know that this writer writes in the most boring way possible it is not that this person that is writing the book is writing in any type of confusing way or that he’s a geniusHe literally just writes so boring a few things have happened in the past two hours that I have been listening to the book yeah it feels like nothing happened because it’s just written in a way that is so dumbAlso I have not yet heard a word that I don’t know yet except for the dogs name which is oh ha ha Ha so funny he’s name is like tricycle only it’s spelled like sickle oh that’s cute no it’s stupid
I felt my IQ drop 3 points just from reading your comment. If you are using Harry Potter as a standard for literary genius then I suggest that you continue on your scholarly journey and revisit your vacuous comment in another decade or three.
Gene Wolfe is crap reading if you're reading for fun and adventure. Where Herbert's Dune has intimations of hidden knowledge it is an adventure tale that holds your interest. Gene Wolfe's version of Dune would be from the point of view of the Fremen and its religion and would only intimate at the events of Dune. It would be boring. I dont know about this unreliable narrator theory. I think Wolfe is religious or is interested in taking seriously the implications of religious claims from the point of view of a "supposed" science fiction story. If you take western Christianity seriously there is free will and therefore sin, AND God is not responsible for evil. In fact what we can think of as evil is only bad, but not absolutely bad, relatively bad because of "grace".
I want an edition with, "Sh*t's flying in the air, stuff is on fire." on the dustcover.
lol
First ed.
Thanks for bringing this series to more people’s attention. This series is a MUST READ, and my personal favorite.
For how good it (and Wolfe in general) is, it is tragically lesser known than it deserves.
The more people talking about Gene Wolfe the better!
I actually bought an omnibus edition of the entire series for a friend so he'd read it. Hopefully he did.
I'm still haunted by the New Sun quartet...and I read it over 25 years ago. I'm re-reading or rather, listening to it on Audible....such rich language and the alien world of Urth is beckoning me.....and yeah.....I re read it 3 times( in the 90s), just to fully understand everything and I had the Lexicon Urthus to help me, too. I'm still making discoveries as I'm going through it even now..so yeah, if you've never read it and want a challenge....get to it.......Cheers,
Just finished my first reread, four years after the first read. Still buzzing. You're a gent for addressing the tragic lack of Wolfe and particularly New Sun content on YT, The Exemplar. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! (It's also a big plus to see this coming from a fellow Irish person. Subbed 👍)
Couple months ago made my first reading to Shadow of the torturer, and as a non-native speaker was really hard to read, but at the same time I had the most ominous and weird feel that I ever had on any book and now I'm just excited to do my second read to it.
I was just directed to your review of Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun and I’m so glad I watched. I picked up and read Shadow of the Torturer when it came out in mass market because of the Don Maitz cover. I worked at B Dalton back in the day, and afterwards, with a co-owner, had my very own Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Mystery bookstores. Turns out I tried a lot of new authors because of Maitz covers. I have since acquired all the New Sun and Long Sun books in first ed hardcover and had Gene sign them for me. Sorry but I am bragging. Gene came twice (TWICE!) to my little SF store to do signings. He was a scholar and a gentleman, and his love for Rosemary was palpable. I had the most immense pleasure to take him out to dinner and just hang. It was heaven.
Given that I love the more literary style of writing, finding Wolfe’s work was life changing for me. See Tim Powers, Dan Simmons, Ian Banks…. Reading Shadow, I would finish a paragraph, sigh, then go back and read the paragraph again - it was just so beautifully written. I’m talking sentence structure, word choice… just spectacular. I could go on, I promise. What disturbed me at the beginning of your review is almost how apologetic you were sounding for Wolfe. Dictionaries are there for a purpose dang it - if you don’t know the word, look it up. Gene did not make up words! But I understand, I believe. Game of Thrones was a remarkable series of books - even though RR may never finish the series - dxxn it. I’ve been reading Martin since the beginning (I am old, I admit) and did have the chance to meet and talk with him not long after Fevre Dream was published. A good friend of mine was in WUV with GOT but her complaint when reading the first book was that it was “too detailed”. Well of course it was - it’s a book, not a tv show or movie. Almost makes we want to cry but the folks I know who are 20 to 30 years younger than me appear to have the attention span of a goldfish.
I had to laugh when you warned your viewers that if you hated discussion or rumination you would not like Wolfe. That could not be more true with Wolfe. I loved Proust’s Remembrance of Things Past (I had to read it in English as the French passé simple tense was beyond me). Before I graduated, my Modernism professor told me that he hadn’t read Proust because Aldous Huxley likened that series to a man sitting in his own used bathwater and drinking it. I laugh every time I remember that.
Wolfe is absolutely philosophical, but also theological. The Book of the Long Sun series is almost a Catholic treatise. Not my favorite part of that series, but certainly present.
Let me know if you’d like a first ed HC of Pandora by Holly Hollander as I have a dup. Not signed but a first.
Phoebe
Wonderful comment. Thank you for the kind words, and sharing your stories. I bet those bookshops of yours were really something special.
Thanks for making this video! You provided exactly what I needed to prepare myself for the journey ahead of me.
Thanks for this video! I don't think I made it quite halfway when I stopped and went to buy the book. Now I'm past the first, started with The Claw of the Conciliator, and returning to your video. A lot of what you're saying has turned out true for my experience reading, and it's been a fantastic experience at that. I'm super thankful that I picked it up, and to you and this video for helping me pick it up sooner than I might have.
I wouldnt of started reading this book if I had heard it was so difficult to read. i just heard it was the best thing since slice bread so i bought it. Its now my favorite book of all time. Cant recommend it enough.
Definitely all of these are positives for me too! Thanks brother and great job with this video.
Thank you for this video! Gene Wolfe needs more attention in the media no doubt. I read the first 4 books when I was 17/18 and they blew my mind, although I didn't grasp a lot of the concepts then. It's time for a re-read.
I was deciding on which Sci-fi/Fantasy book I would read for 2021 and it looks like Shadow of the Torturer will have its priority! Thanks for posting this video, I'm finally convinced to start reading this dark jewel of fiction.
Great video. Love what you say toward the end about meeting Gene Wolfe halfway, or, at least, walking over to him.
Just about finished with Sword of the Lictor and I absolutely adore the series. While I never really thought about it, everything you mentioned that's so great about the books (technically difficult language, big events that sneak up on you, beauty in the mundane, and rewarding re-reads) are all present in a lot of my favorite writing. I'm only mostly done with Sword of the Lictor but I think I can say that Book of the New Sun is not just great fantasy but great literature!
This has finally pushed me to start Gene Wolfe, thank you, i really enjoyed this. Please make similar videos for other authors or books you passionately can recommend, thank you
I have been hopping back and forth between Wolfe and Sanderson, and every time I go back to Sanderson (while I still think he is a genius) it feels like YA in terms of the prose. I love the difficult aspect of Wolfe's language. It brings to mind my studies of modernism. For me, I choose beauty over overt clarity.
Brilliant video mate.
Definitely look up the words. Because it's quite often impossible to infer from the context alone, not to mention the book is so dense with these words you will often come across multiple new ones in a paragraph. If you want to understand what's going on it's probably a smart idea to google most of them for their meaning in the book of the new sun specifically. The lexicon Urthus isn't necessary, but I got it on my phone after finishing the first book and it was a major help for the rest of the series.
Also as someone that loves ereaders and all their great functionality, the dictionary on your kindle likely won't cut it. Many of these words are so obscure and old they aren't in many dictionaries, and the only way to find their meaning is to google them. Even then sometimes they are ultra obscure and not in the immediate results. Which is why the lexicon Urthus is so incredible.
I still have to read the Urth of the new Sun. I plan to wait a bit for that and maybe reread the main books of the BOTNS right after
Good analysis! I like to tell people that Wolfe is one of the few authors I've read who understand the power of subtlety, and has enough respect for his audience not to patronize them and spell out things for them. He lets the reader puzzle things out for themselves and it's all the more powerful for it. It's an amazing feeling when you have been reading a passage in the book, and suddenly it clicks into place with other clues and hints that have been dropped along the way, and then suddenly the depth and majesty of one of his ideas unfolds before you, and you are both humbled and exalted by the scope and grandeur of it, and you have to just stop and ponder for awhile...
Yeah... I had been wondering if this series was for me. Just got the first two books after watching. Cheers!
My tutor told me about this book, and you’ve sold me I will TRY and read it
Great video. Hope you do more in future.
Reading it right now, loving it.
Thx dude , I’m going to give the book a try ;)
I will choose to be your eighteenth subscriber.
Yeah, I should read it. Great video.
Great video, I actually listened to a Gene Wolfe podcast as I read through the books for the first time this year. That helped me catch some of those things that would have gone over my head, and I don't regret doing that at all. I still have many complex feelings about the book, even knowing how it ends, and I look forward to sorting out for myself on a second read through. Chapters 16 and 17 of Sword of the Lictor are some of the most haunting things I've ever read, of all the things in these book that's what most got under my skin...and thinking about the kind of broken world Gene Wolfe created.
Do you know/remember the name of the podcast you listened to? I'm reading through the series for the first time myself.
Alzabo Soup, they've finished the whole series by now but are great to read along with chapter by chapter. I'm also enjoy the Rereading Wolfe podcast but as it sounds...better for a reread.
@@mdizzet6404 I dig Alzabo Soup!
Great video.
Funny story: I grew up in Chile, but my mother is English. In Chile we didn't have access to that many books in English back then, so a few times a year my aunts in Australia would plunder the used bookstores there and send us a big boxful. They knew I loved fantasy and sci-fi, so they would always send a selection for me, but because they couldn't always find all the books in a particular series, I would often end up with a bunch of random books and just have to read them despite missing the other books in the series. In the case of 'The Book of the New Sun', it was 'The Sword of the Lictor'. So I actually read book three in the series twice before getting a copy of the other books years later. It's no surprise that there were many, many things I didn't understand.
Now I just reread the whole series. Wasn't sure if I would still like it, but I really enjoyed it. I'm thinking about looking into the other Urth books, but I'm worried about being disappointed like when I started reading the Dune sequels and finally gave up, because I felt he lost the plot.
Cheers!
One of my top reads
Spoilers were as hard to avoid in the 80's as now. I had three ways to hear of this book, a friend's recommendation, picking it up in a library or bookshop or reading a review. It was the latter to me, and Dave Langford in White Dwarf magazine (pre-Warhammer)gave away a lot of the settings, even as he said he shouldn't. He wanted everyone to read it but not spoil that discovery. Thanks Gene and Dave, you pushed me out of genre reading into a general appreciation of great prose. Bonus: His books reward re-reading, a magnificent gift for the four decades of my life following.
Just getting into the audiobook, and wanted to leave a comment at the altar of the algorithm Gods. Thanks for the vid mate !
Just found it secondhand 😊 so cool!
I have read the series about 5 times now and still enjoy it
Almost everything you've just said can be said about my favorite fantasy series Malazan Book of the Fallen. So I'm in, I love everything you've just said. I'll read this next after I'm finished with Pet Sematary.
Any Gene Wolfe love gets love from me. Well done and thank you!
100 pages in and loving it so far.
This book is so amazing!
There’s me thinking “a booktuber that I really like; let’s see what else the channel has to offer……oh”. All I can say is I hope you’re well.
Spot on.
I'm 5 pages in and it's a solid 10/10 I can't help but feel this is going to be one of my favourite books.
And I hope that feeling is correct.
Enjoy the journey, take your time, stop to think anytime you feel the need to. Re-read a page if it confuses you, maybe that confusion is intentional, maybe you've missed something. Have fun failing at figuring it all out!
Tracked down this vid since I'm enjoying a playthrough of Torment: Tides of Numenera, and the setting was definitely reminding me of the one Gene Wolfe book I've read so far, The Shadow of the Torturer, as well as a little of David Zindell and Vernor Vinge.
I think what stopped me continuing the Wolfe series wasn't so much the language, which I appreciated, but trying to keep track of people's motivations to live their lives in that world, as well as the sheer cruelty of the "revolutionary" device, which stuck with me even years later. Not sure if things lighten up later, or at least if there's some triumph and accomplishment to offset the bleakness of things.
The Revolutionary device is particularly insidious, and the setting is undeniably grim.
I think, in terms of people's motivations to keep living in that world, it's pretty simple. It's all they know. People strive to survive, regardless of circumstances, and if they can they will. We're a stubborn species. So I think I can reconcile that with myself pretty simply.
Things in BotNS are never quite "light", but thing get brighter. There is a constant looming dread over the whole series, but likewise (and this shows more, arguably in Urth of the New Sun).
I would say if you require some form of clear, unambiguous triumph at the end of your tale, then honestly it might not be for you.
While there is joy to be found in the books, it is always tempered by an ever-present sadness, or dread. Trying to be spoiler free here is hard.
There may be light at the end of tunnel, but what kind of light and whether that tunnel will be revealed to be thorn-ridden or cotton-rimmed? That's the fun of the read.
Hearing that it’s a challenging read makes me want to read it even more
gads, i must be a difficult person. i'm reading this now and savoring every page. i find it utterly engaging. i have a lot of science fiction on my shelf, which may help. the archaic words are always used in context so it's easy to discern the meaning. it's may be puzzling to some readers to orient themselves in the time period, which can be described as medieval ultra high technology. we also learn immediately that Severian is a savant of memory that is writing a detailed memoir or 'future history' as i like to call it. (the Glass Bead Game comes to mind.) thus we are reading of a detailed account of events as they unfold and like reality itself, not everything ties together neatly. it is a linear account however, told from a photographic memory. we get clues, like the red sunshine, that it's so far in the future that the years are not counted but the ages, which pass into mist.
it sure is easier to read than Chaucer. what he does is build a world, imagined hence, so far as to appear in the past. fantastic! technology seems magic. at this level, it sure would.
but does society advance also? maybe not so much.
if you think this is difficult try A Voyage to Arcturus. it will seem a piece of cake with mulled wine.
Just ordered the first book gonna be here in 2 days very excited was pushed towards the book Bc I love darksouls lore and was told this is similar
Going in for the first time.
My favorite sci-fi series! I highly recommend!
The most poetic use of the written English language since Herman Hesse. These books are literally hallucinatory.
it reminded me of Hesse too! i read Anathem right after the Glass Bead Game and the coincidence blew my mind. i snagged them both from one of those corner library boxes, but in different neighborhoods. cloistered far future histories.
Hesse is German.
I wish you would do more BOTNS videos!
I’ve just got to the citadel of the autarch and I’m getting urth of the new sun for Christmas and I also own lexicon urthus
I tried Book of the New Sun twice and I can see there's something there worth digging for, but man is it a hard read...which is funny because straight after I read Malazan which is a 10-book series with a similar reputation and loved it. I actually started jotting down words I didn't didn't know and I think I reached like 20 words within the first 100 pages. I keep telling myself to just hunker down and just get through the initial hurdle because I always hear such high praise about these books. Maybe someday.
Twenty words in any one hundred pages of anything is pretty neat, you being either a walking dictionaro-phile or not very serious about jotting down everything; point being, piling up several hundred unknown words for one book, if you're consistent and meticulous, is a standard procedure if you're a non-native reading in foreign language (I've even had instances of books with wordlists for native audience where I knew the meaning of words considered as archaic by the authors - I'm talking English literature anthology book. That was neat).
That probably doubles or triples in case of Wolfe, I myself am intending to read the book but first have to slay the TBR some. In fact, I regret not buying the complete Oxford English Dictionary (around ten volumes) that contains about every English word extant because my wife would probably slit my throat if I did (it's pretty pricey).
Try the audibook, you can find them all here on UA-cam. I'd suggest the one read by Roy Avers.
Did you mean 20 words in the first 5 pages?
This was a very good synopsis of a very popular series. I'll try this story again, but with the Kindle.
I'm guessing "One and Done" as a content creator?
Thank you. And no, not one and done. I've had my creativity focused in other areas since making this channel. But I definitely want to make more stuff for here. And I will. This year, probably.
Check back in a few weeks.
I bought a large wide sword just because of "Terminus est".
Anyone who likes Gene Wolfe should have a look at Eric Ortlund’s latest books. Titles are “Dead Petals” and “I Am the Doorway”
Convinced me to read it.
Trust Wolfe, hold his hand and let him show you wonders. All his stories involve 'the unreliable narrator', Wolfe is an acquired taste, and of the four part 'The Book of the New Sun' at least read through the first part - 'Shadow of the Torturer', then think over what happened.
I teared up in chapter 7
Just finished my (first?) read and sitting with it now, processing a bit.
I love Book of the New Sun
I’ve been reading and re-reading Wolfe and this series since I was 18 years old. I’m 54 now. Incomprehension is not magical. It’s better to know more about what’s going on.
please make your liked videos public. i'm 30 years younger and I want to learn from a learned sage like yourself.
loved the entire solar cycle. new sun, urth, long and short sun. best stuff i've read.
Please make more videos! There is more Wolfe zealots out there than you think.
If my house were on fire, The Book of the New sun and the Silmarillion would be the first things I would grab.
For me the book of the new sun ends with sword of the lictor, which is so amazing I almost cried. The book is a miracle.
The citadel of the autarch was a huge let down though, many strands left unanswered and soarly needing an editor. What the hell was he playing with 100 pages of people telling stories about fucking chickens after all the time we invested.
The book seems like some kind of bizarre introspective reflection on himself. I wish he could have done that with another series and not his magnum opus. Still 100% worth reading the first 3.
“One is strong, another beautiful, a third a cunning artificer. Which is best? He who serves the populace.”
The Urth of the New Sun is the true ending of the saga. You can't understand half of it without this fifth book.
I play a game called kenshi and saw this as a recommendation on the reddit. I listened to a bit, and it seemed interesting, but decided to click off since I am usually a reader. This overview has convinced me to buy copy and read it, this is probably the type of book I need to start enjoying fiction again. I would read Dune and all that, but I am young a busy and have decided to just get the spark notes and settle with youtube overviews, if I am going to start reading huge books again it's probably going to be in retirement.
I made the mistake of reading those books when I was 12/13 because the cover and title sounded so cool. And really struggling to appreciate them. As a teenager I wasn't ready to appreciate those books (also read Dune because the Lynch movie was so cryptic and fascinating).
I read them as a kid also and just found It was reading a new book when I read them as an adult.
I first heard “the ladder” I don’t even know if that’s spelled the right way or not but it means like either the better or the worse I’m still not sure and I do not feel like looking it up or anything like I understand it enough to sort of know what it means even though it could be the complete opposite but it’s just because in the context when someone says “I would choose the latter” it doesn’t really make sense because of course you’re going to choose the better one but is it in context of like what was said first orJust automatically you know what the better one is so obviously you’re going to be picking that one so I’ve heard that said in a couple of times I was like wait a minute but it sounds like you’re saying the worst but I know in context of what I have read before like in JK Rowling stuff it means you’re going to choose the better one but in like videos that I watch sometimes they’re picking the worst one and I’m like I’m so confused I’m still not looking it up butI’m pretty sure that I’m not gonna Google any of the words that are said in the book because I will be getting it on Audible so I’m not even going to know how to Google it because I won’t know how it’s spelled N I’ll just like sort of get it… I apologize Siri doesn’t know how to spell and I use her to write things all the time it’s very annoying
What's the part of the first two pages that doesn't match sense?
I'm one book in so far
It's not bad
Think it might help to read Dune first. Then Song of Ice and Fire (not Game of Thrones, that was only one book in the series). After that, the Book of the New Sun. It will be an enjoyable high sci-fi /fantasy novel. And really people the story is not that complicated. Just enjoy the flow.
i'm on chapter six, i'm lost...............................................................,even the vocab
I love BOTNS.
“everyone’s doing long shots, everyone’s doing an unreliable narrator” im not finding the results to my question with search engines: is “long shot” a trope in fiction? does it mean macro world building? please explain. thanks
I actually used a bit of a misnomer there. A long take would be a better phrase. As in, a continuous and unbroken shot in a film.
To clarify what I meant, something that is cool and different can lose its lustre when overused. This doesn't mean that it still can't be as mind-blowing and interesting as it originally was when in the hands of a master in their craft; be it filmmaking (Long takes) or writing fiction in general (unreliable narrator).
@@theexemplar6679 👌🏾 thanks for the explanation! have a great day
There is no F-ing way i am re-reading this series. Theres too much that ive actually enjoyed the first time that i dont have time to re-read.
The most important thing is... stop telling people not to read it. Everyone should read it. Let the individual decide. Damn.
One thing that gets on my nerves is criticism of Severian's treatment of women in Claw of the Concilator (the second half of "Shadow and Claw" in new editions) We learn from the start he was raised in a Torturers Guild, but you thought he'd turn out to be nice and instantly redeemed? Maybe that works in "Twilight" stories, not in Book of the New Sun!
The lexicon is great. The chapter guide by the same guy is lacklustre. It doesn't actually talk about themes, easter eggs etc it mostly focuses on literary inspirations for characters and things. And I'm pretty sure half of them are just speculation.
I mean at times it was outright wrong. In others I discovered major things (like I discovered what I likely inspired the Mirrors of Father Irinire but that one, no one seems to realise or know. See "Kozyrev's mirror").
He's also wrong about who the missionaries are in the garden. He claims it's based on a book character. When it seems to be based on real life 19th century missionary Robert Moffat and his wife Mary who worked a lot with the Zulu. I found this myself suspecting they must have been based on real missionaries (Gene is a Catholic and these two have names from our time, read the Bible and are sitting in a tree hut with a Zulu medicine man) and found those two famous missionaries before I read the guy who wrote the chapter guide claim it's someone else that seems far more of a stretch..
Also wish some of the lexicon descriptions were better and more elaborate.
Hmmmm. I was interested in reading it...but
- I Hate unknown language in books (THE reason I put down Stand on Zanzibar)
- Not a big re-reader. (or maybe 10 years later).
- Would like to conbtinue reading the next book...but if I feel I have to reread...
- I've heard the 1st book is the best one...
*** I am having doubts now if I should go and read this book.... should I, and can it be read as a stand alone?
Cheers!
If I'm being personally honest, it doesn't seem like it would be the book for you. I dont think re-reading Wolfe is NECESSARY, but it does peel back layers of obscurity.
Personally I got half way through the second book on my first read when something happened in the story that made me realise I had no idea what was going on, so I started the first book from scratch. That being said, I could see someone realising what I did, then just continuing with a keener eye.
The first book is not the best to me, but I can see that argument being made for sure, but that's really just a matter of preference, they're one singular work in my eyes. Especially considering if you were to read only the first book, "Shadow of the Torturer", you would probably leave pretty unfulfilled considering the ending of it is notoriously abrupt.
I think you start it, and if by 50-100 pages it is just not clicking at all in any way you could safely, and sadly, put it down.
Sorry if this was a rambling mess, hope it has clarified at least something for you, haha.
Have a good one!
@@theexemplar6679 Hey man, thanks for the long reply. Much appreciated. I have had it happen to me... when I read Peter F Hamilton's reality dysfunction.
The first book was translated in Dutch to 2 books.. but also had an abrupt ending...when I contacted the publisher they told me they were not going to translate the 4 other books (later it became a trilogy of 3 books over 900 pages each in English). So I reread the first book (1200 pages) in English and then after a great 3 book read it having a Deus ex Machina ending was a bit of a let down...still a great series. Later works are much better...I am a big fan of his work. Cheers!
OK, you've piqued my interest, and I don't normally read fantasy. Audible version downloaded...
Answer to the question in the title: absolutely yes! Vocabulary, mood, unreliable narrator - tough first reading but very rewarding later and the series becomes even better upon re-read.
15:00
No it requires critical thought outside the text buy a new york times best seller....
I’m a regular reader of SF & Fantasy since the mid 70s so I’m no stranger to these genres. Many years ago I read the 1st book in the series and did not like it at all. I guess I just can’t appreciate Gene’s style of prose.
Short answer: If you're a novice reader and not ready for mature literature, then no, don't read anything by Gene Wolfe.
If you're scared about this remember that there's always happy people torturing themselves with postmodern literary books.
So I got the books on audio bowl thanking that this would be a book like Harry Potter some fat is how this book for these books or portrayed to me and I just want to let you all know that this writer writes in the most boring way possible it is not that this person that is writing the book is writing in any type of confusing way or that he’s a geniusHe literally just writes so boring a few things have happened in the past two hours that I have been listening to the book yeah it feels like nothing happened because it’s just written in a way that is so dumbAlso I have not yet heard a word that I don’t know yet except for the dogs name which is oh ha ha Ha so funny he’s name is like tricycle only it’s spelled like sickle oh that’s cute no it’s stupid
I felt my IQ drop 3 points just from reading your comment. If you are using Harry Potter as a standard for literary genius then I suggest that you continue on your scholarly journey and revisit your vacuous comment in another decade or three.
Gene Wolfe is crap reading if you're reading for fun and adventure. Where Herbert's Dune has intimations of hidden knowledge it is an adventure tale that holds your interest. Gene Wolfe's version of Dune would be from the point of view of the Fremen and its religion and would only intimate at the events of Dune. It would be boring.
I dont know about this unreliable narrator theory. I think Wolfe is religious or is interested in taking seriously the implications of religious claims from the point of view of a "supposed" science fiction story. If you take western Christianity seriously there is free will and therefore sin, AND God is not responsible for evil. In fact what we can think of as evil is only bad, but not absolutely bad, relatively bad because of "grace".