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The Rolex Link "Scam" - Federico Talks Watches
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2017
- The Rolex Link "Scam" - Federico Talks Watches
In today's episode of Federico Talks Watches I want to talk about a common business practice in the pre owned watch market. The Rolex link "scam" or Rolex link "mafia". Keeping the supply of Rolex bracelet links very tight to then drive up the price. Removing links from a Rolex bracelet, before selling the watch, so dealers can then sell the customer extra links. Is this a legitimate business practice or something shady? What do you guys think? Let me know in the comment section below
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Don’t buy a watch that’s missing any links. Problem solved.
vagabond88817 in my eyes it’s not class as full set !! so I would Negotiate the price when buying that’s one way around this problem
If they sell the watch as "complete with box and papers" while they know it isn't complete because they took parts from it, it's a scam and illegal.
Scam. And that's why watch dealers aren't trusted. This makes them no better than used car salesmen. It should be illegal. Dirty, not business. If a used car salesman takes parts out of a car and offers them for sale, what makes that different? Dirty, dirty.
"Hi that Rolex sub, box and papers yeah? Cool. Ill come down and buy it ... oh I take it all the links are there? No. Never mind then ... oh whats that, they were underneath the pillow..."
UXXV ...ha ha SUPERB!
I would never buy from a dealer that hid bracelet links from their customers, Period...
LLD walk out if they can't sell you an adequate size bracelet
LLD In that case they need to sell that watch less according to how many links are missing and how much they will cost. That should be taken off the final deal! If not, don't get the watch!
Waktosha 73 Of course, you can always negotiate with the seller for a price reduction if there are any missing links.
Why don't you buy the watch, but make them discount the watch for every link that's missing.
I can't imagine buying a luxury watch and not keeping the links, even if they were removed to fit me. Who buys a watch, has links removed and lets the seller keep them?
Finally an advantage to a 6.5" wrist 😃
Optimist! I like it!
I'd want a big discount on any watch that isn't complete. Count those links boys
If you buy a used full set, it comes with everything inc. all links. If something is missing, no full set, price goes down. Easy
The lingo "full set" used by most dealers just means box, papers and hang tags... It very rarely applies to links...
I have 8” wrist and almost always have to either buy extra links, eg Rolex, Blancpain, Omega. Or get an L or XL leather strap. And it can cost a fortune. But strangely enough the humble Seiko always fits.
@Dave Mckenzie - My wrist is 7¼", but I have always considered it rather slim compared to those of some of my friends. BTW, I am 6'3", slim build, normal weight. So 8" seems perfectly legit to me.
Same here, even 8 1/4 on my right. I always have to ask about links and it can be a deal breaker.
Dave Mckenzie I said 8” not 8’...😁
8.5" wrist here. I buy watches on leather knowing full well i have to buy a new strap, and always ask if extra links are included, or can easily be sourced from the manufacturer.
What really sucks is trying to get a mesh bracelet that fits, sometimes you want that classic mesh look and getting a mesh in 8.5 is tough.
I guess the rule is simple - do not buy a watch that does not fit. if they cannot throw link in as part of the watch sell - so let them to sell it to someone else. this this definitely absolutely dishonest practice. imagine they remove links to the minimum length on all their stock they have so 90% clients going to need to buy links? will it fly?
railgraf Yup. I'd absolutely love to see how many people got the link for free and how many were left not getting the watch if everyone walked away. Like, would more stores give you the link for free or for only like $15-$20? Or would more let you walk out? I guess it depends on how much traffic the store gets and how much attention the watch gets. If it's a fairly used Rolex that is often ignored by customers, I bet you'd probably get the links for free if you were serious about walking out.
Lol, Bob's watches, "All watches are shipped to fit the average size wrist (7 1/4" - 7 1/2" for men and 6 1/4" - 6 1/2" for women). Additional links can be purchased if needed."
One could always walk away.......
It may not be illegal, but it's pretty dishonest. I get it if they had to order replacement links from the watch house, but taking it off a full bracelet to sell later is a straight up scumbag move. Watch owners selling to dealers should start taking the two links out first, then selling them to the dealers piecemeal. Anyway, good to know! Thanks, Federico.
Used car dealerships do it all the time. One tried to sell me a high end alarm system that controlled the locks, windows, top, truck, and interior motion detector for $800 installed. I said no to their offer, only to find out the next day that the system was already in the car. I just needed the key fob that cost me less than $50.
loyd walters Damn that's scummy. I'd be all over Yelp, Google reviews, etc and spreading the word around like wildfire. It's insane how much power those reviews have, especially in smaller communities. Most places around me (pretty small) only have like 40 reviews tops, usually around 10-15. No one really goes through the trouble to review stuff! However if you look up the place on Google, the rating it seriously one of the first things to pop up. And if you're one of ~4-10 people to review it, your review carries a ton of weight. I review quite a lot of stuff, especially small restaurants if I really like them to help them out. But yeah, if a dealership is that dishonest, I'd be letting a lot of people know.
Wow fuck them
Exact thing happened to me in Hong Kong last weekend! Visited a second hand dealer and EVERY watch I tried was just one or two links too small for my meaty wrist. Shop owner says I can buy an extra link for whatever watch I liked.
Sharp business practice. I bet they also knock you down if you sell a watch with no spare links. This is useful if you know about it because I would, knowing this, refuse the watch if too small or buy the links elsewhere. Yeah, I'm a bit like that.
Sell to them the watch with one less link and sell it on ebay. LOL
San-Rio Enterprises LLC You could easily make $60 per watch too. Only issue is getting enough watches to make it worth doing. But you could easily make some good money. While it's promoting doing it, it'd also help make it less expensive to buy the links overall.
Rolex participates in a link scam too. I have medium-small wrists but only need to remove one link from a typical Rolex bracelet. Anyone with above average wrists needs to buy extra links from Rolex if shopping for new at an AD.
Yeah thats dirty, I always make sure that I know how many links are in an oyster bracelet before I buy the watch. I ask if the bracelet has all its links before I buy the watch. Then I count each link to make sure. I went to a dealer in Portland Oregon and I asked he said yes it has a full bracelet. I counted each link and surprise!!! it was missing 2 links. Know I have a Rolex Submariner with a full bracelet. Do what I do so you dont get taken for a ride.
So how many links should there be ?
If it's not illegal they can do whatever they want, but I won't weep for them when they complain that eBay and online gray market dealers are "devastating" their business.
Thanks for the video. Seems 100% scummy to me and would stop me from doing business with the dealer.
It's a distasteful practice, but not a scam. Fed: it would be great if you could provide a list of how many links should be included in certain bracelets e.g. a modern Rolex oyster bracelet
Just go on the makers web site and look at the images they have.
Most have 13 links as far as I can tell.
If you tell the seller that you expect the full link set for the price of the watch and they balk, then I'd let them know I'm willing to walk. That's your only leverage as the consumer. They have to know you're fine with setting the watch down and walking away, even if it hurts. Something tells me a dealer isn't going to hand a $7,000 sale to their competition over a $400 link if they've got it laying around. Just my two cents. Interesting topic. I definitely learned something.
Great input,Federico.I had very the same problem with my Explorer 216570.On the end I realized well know big well recognized dealer selling all his Rolex watches with 7.5" bracelets?! Finally I did find absolutely visually the "same" replacement-4 links for $25USD
Just because something isn't illegal, doesn't mean it's good business. By that logic hospitals charging $200 for an aspirin are in the right too.
Very simple: If not all the links are present then then watch is incomplete and worth less. It's their prerogative to take links out but as a buyer I will pay less for an incomplete watch. It's of course the buyer's responsibility to check that. Always do your homework!
Agreed.
If the watch is cheap enough, buy the extra link....If the watch is already set at fair price, I'd expect the bracelet to fit or no sale..there's always another game in town..great topic and information
Now i get it Federico... i bought a a Royal Oak a few months ago and the bracelet was too tight..., ask for the links, and have not been able to get them... that should not be permitted...
If I was buying a used watch and the bracelet was to small and the dealer said I got two links in the back I'll sell you for $100 each, I would just say, nah I'll pass on the watch. I doubt the dealer would let me leave without that watch. And hey, if he does, there's always another deal to be found somewhere.
This is just like removing the wheels off a car just to sell them back...
Thanks for this video! This info is very handy!
You have to know how big the bracelet should be, you should know the specs. of the watch your buying. If the bracelet is to short pay as if the watch was “incomplete”. Or be a “live one” and pay full price for a retail watch.
100% a scam!! Thanks for the heads up Fed
Thank you for the heads up Fed, sooner warned...better armed! All the best to you!
First thing is how many links comes with a brand new watch. Once you know count the links on the watch you want to buy. If it has less than standard and does not fit your wrist hand it back to the salesman and tell him it does not fit. When he offers to add the links that should have been there you tell him no thanks maybe next time you'll sell me the complete watch and walk out till you find and honest dealer.
Brilliant honest video! This is the reason I follow you. Thanks!
It is a breach of trust. That reflects badly on the Brands themselves. They need to clean house on after sales service on the luxury brands. Examples from family members, at the AD change of battery for €400! When it cost 15 € outside. Bracelet clasp repair 2500€ when a jeweler did it for 30. There needs to be a rethink an honest one at headquarters.
Fed. Do you think they take off the bracelet and sell the original watch with strap and pin buckle from the maker and 'arb' the price differential?
Simon S , I think it's out there for sure. But customers are more savvy abd there's almost always a premium on bracelet versions on the 2nd hand market over straps. Funny place you can see this is Bob's, where the 'customer' sells it on a strap and makes their own off the bracelet
I believe that it is sharp practice and must be bordering on illegal from a moral stand point. My wrist is 22cm and if in the future if that scam is pulled on me I will be sure to just walk-away...
Well it's a low move, but as you said, it's not illegal. which is why it is better to buy a watch from a dealer you have a relationship so you would not get cheated out of your money.
Personal experience with a dealer on Chrono24, they photographed the watch before taking out the links. You definitely need to ask how many links it comes with. Don’t trust the photo. ‘Luckily’, my watch had many other problems when it arrived, and I got a full refund. But afterwards when I looked back at the original ad vs my photos, links had clearly been removed.
It’s shitty, but it shouldn’t be illegal. Buyers beware. If you are paying a lot of money for a watch, and you’re bringing cash to the table, insist on a watch that fits you and be ready to walk away if they try to sell you extra links. Make them include the links or keep looking.
How many links come as standard for a new Rolex?
Good video. thanks a lot
Really really good content thanks for sharing this tactic to the world to know.
Thanks for the heads up!
This is not debatable, it is grossly dishonest and abhorrent.
It's a straight up scam, it's a proper scumbag move.
I recently bought a pre-owned Rolex OP 116000 from AD and it fit me perfectly, but I have very thin wrists, about 6.5". Now I know what happened to the extra links.
You are right, its anywhere in the middle. Same happens with buckles on used original straps!
That is the same scam I'm thinking my phone repairmans do. My phone misses 2 bolts and once even a lens of a front camera was gone!
What do you think of GPS satellite, atomic, Bluetooth connected watches? Are they worth the money, are they reliable as compared to a standard watch?
I’m going to buy a used Explorer 1 next week, how many links should it have guys? (Not including the end links)
Good info, Federico. Thanks.
this would be like buying a used corvette where they swapped out the stock rims for steel wheels and then selling you stock rims for extra money. thats why i dont buy used
I got a small wrist. Does this mean when buying a watch I can get a further discount by giving them back the overage?
of course it's dishonest. it's unethical. and it's mean-spirited. no doubt!
Anyone know how many links a 'Hulk' or 'Batman' should come with straight from Rolex??
Thanks for tips. Really needed it. Solid content.
If its an AD they should supply the watch exactly as they received it
+Jim C not talking g about ADs
ah fair enough its abit of a grey area, guess its upto the buyer to understand what there buying in that case
If they don't sell the watch as they received it, a savvy watch buyer (especially Rolex) will know the bracelet is missing links and should be a negotiating point in the price of the watch. If a watch is X dollars with box, papers and full bracelet, then it's X dollars minus the missing links.
If I bought a secondhand 'full set' watch from a dealer of any kind and it came with a suspiciously small bracelet I would more or less demand the extra links or walk.
I never have this problem because my wrists are dainty. As a businesswoman I don't have a problem with the practice but I also prefer straps and am constantly looking for short straps that aren't plentiful.
Wow, I wasn't aware of this, one of the best videos so far that show how much you are knowledgeable.
As being dishonest, yes it is, but as you said they sometimes buy watches without full links so it slightly let's them off the hook 😄
AD's should use this information as a selling point.
I'm starting to love my tiny wrists. I almost always have to take out links even with pre-owned watches.
What choice do I have? Get a strap elsewhere lol
is that a ColaReb strap on your speedmaster? Looks good!
It can be argued both ways so I say "Save it for the semantics dome". Let's just say it's their prerogative but I would never do business with anyone that does that (That I am aware). Good vid man
It’s not maximizing profit, it’s pulling a con. Why don’t you tell us how many links a sub bracelet comes with so when we try to buy use we can make sure the watch has the correct amount of links, and we don’t get conned
And that's why you don't buy watches with proprietary straps/lug systems guys lol
This just adds more justification to buy new retail. If Rolex you’ll most likely have to pay full RRP as AD’s aren’t allowed to discount but at least you’ll get a brand new, genuine watch with all Bracelet links and full warranty in you’re name.
I don't have a link scam story, but an entire bracelet scam story! I bought a watch online from Vesper & Co in NY. They confirmed in writing that it had a full, original, signed oyster bracelet and endlinks. Watch arrives with a generic steel Asian-made oyster-style strap. Real bracelet and links would be about 1000usd, the generic one, about 35usd new. Of course, as soon as I asked about a refund, they went AWOL and never answered any emails. It's one way to make money, I suppose.
Its not smart just sneaky and dishonest. If im buying a watch give me the full watch, i paid for that.
Taking links out to resell them and fucking the customer and then selling the links separately to the customer again is theft! They should get whacked for doing it or go to prison!
When I see "full set" or "full kit," I assumed it means it includes all the original links. Now I know to ask. Thanks!
Great video! This is pure greed on the dealer's part in my opinion .
It’s kind of messed up but in the end it is their prerogative. I wonder if you could try to negotiate on the total price of the watch if you call them out on this practice.
I don't think it's their prerogative. Someone sold them the watch in a condition and they are altering what they bought to make more money out if it. I'd be curious to hear a court on consumer's rights on this tbh. Impossible to proove it of course.
Good point !
Dina Montana I wish I was a good negotiator. I try but my body language gives me away every time. When I see something I really want I try to play it cool but I just get so excited. Seller always knows they got me in the palm of their hand.
Stephen Berry If you call them on this practice, they will just kick you out of the shop. But you can negotiate the price when there are missing links.
The seller OWNS the watch. It is theirs, they can do whatever they want with it. Businesses make money by altering products or buying in bulk and selling in piece. This is exactly that.
It is not different from a chocolate company buying $100 worth of cocoa and producing $500 worth of chocolate bars.
Georgi Ivanov why would they kick me out even if I did call them out on it? I know it is there product but in the end I own the money they want. I would think (unless they were just sucky salesman) they would still try to land the sale of their product. Used market has always had negotiable prices.
Great info! Thanks for this video!
Step 1: go to AD and check out the watch and count the links on a new watch
Step 2: if you buy used count the links if they aren't all there tell them you'll buy it if you get ALL the links.
Step 3: don't get dicked on the price.
I've done this twice worked both times
Nasty business!
this is where being an informed consumer makes the difference, you pay for ignorance
does your speedy for sale come with all the links?
Yes it does!
Good info, Fed, thanks.
I think that if you are buying a watch that is advertised as new, then it should come with the extra links that the factory puts in the box. The consumer shouldn’t be getting a “new” watch that has less than if they bought it at the Rolex store.
Slimy practice but buyer beware. Thanks Frederico very useful info.
Nice bit of info, thanks for sharing though it doesn't really affect me as i don't and will never buy from a "used watch dealer" and 95% of the time i prefer leather, for the other 5% its a AD bought watch so no hassle.
great video, love the beige strap on the speedmaster, may I ask where is it from? And Yes I find this behaviour to be a scam and totally dishonest...
Actually, yes; yes it is a scam. Why remove those two links if it's not. They didn't buy it with those links missing.
If the bracelet doesn't fit, then don't buy it.
A certain Australian gentleman who has a watch forum on UA-cam recently purchased a Breguet on line. On camera, he began to excitedly unbox it, and guess what? It wouldn't fit his fat wrist, because the bracelet had missing links, all embarrassingly caught on camera. And this was a guy who should have known better. Turned out Breguet wanted $200 per link. He ended up putting a ghastly nato on it.
There isn’t nothing wrong with it technically, but I’d prefer an AD who tried to maximize profit through repeat customers and not through nickel and diming. It just reeks of desperation and sleazy ness.
Where I’d draw the line would be, fine take the links of and have them for sale separately. But if someone comes in to buy the watch and it’s slightly too small go ahead and throw in the links with the deal.
But then again it’s a cut throat world out there and people are struggling which I get, but again I’d prefer to have an AD with a good reputation and plenty of business that a few hundred bucks on the links is the cost of doing business and keeping a customer.
Well on that note , I sold a Rolex Bluesy on Ebay fitted to my wrist and
Later I remembered an extra link I had and sold it for $275 (going back
10 yrs btw) was that wrong?! Lol
~nice inside scoop. Should I ever buy a new Rolex from an AD I will make sure I get the full bracelet and NOT the abbreviated "stolen" version.
+David L this is not a problem at a Rolex AD
In this day in age....in any and every business fraud is a legit factor to be aware of....at least its important to recognize how many links even make up a full band in the first place.....I thank u for that at the minimum.
Sleazy, if nothing else.
Crazy but knew most did it. My AD always gave me extra free and a discount so had no need to go grey. Too bad they moved 5 years ago.
Very interesting. Thanks.
--Michael
You know, some deployant clasps out there that are crazy expensive.
Total scam! Makes me all the more want to buy from an AD or a VERY reputable dealer like yourself Federico.
It's on the seller to provide full links. If I'm shorting you 2 links, you give me less money... But I'm not a bad person.