Will never forget my mothers words when I was young and naive. When a man abuses you and come back to apologies with tears running down his face that you have to forgive and forget, because he loves you and cannot live without you...as soon as you see tears, run as hard as you can. He wasn't crying when he was hitting you so don't believe his tears when you are leaving him. He is just crying because there is no one to control when you leaves him. Thanks for the another heartfelt story Mike.
So, she basically told you to be unforgiving because... tears? odds are they haven't changed and would still be abusive, of course, but why tears of all things?
Also, they stick flowers and chocolate out like magic charms to make you submit, whether you like those things or not, because GOOD guys bring FLOWERS and Chocolates! Even while they are violating your privacy and coercing you, demanding interaction entirely without your consent, they think this PROVES they are 'sorry' and 'will be good'... and so you have to do what they want It shows a complete misunderstanding of what BEING A GOOD (person, friend, man, whatever) actually means-- trying to compel you against your will by performance of these culturally coded 'romantic' behaviors, and then, if you don't respond as their script dictates, they get angry and call you names. And the *worst* is when you get a cop who SNEERS and says so what's YOUR problem, you're complaining about CHOCOLATES? with obvious identification with the 'poor guy' who is supposedly 'trying so hard' to win you back, so what kind of cold mean b*ch are you? Cops in the States, statistically, are the most likely to be domestic abusers and very often view any amount of coercive behavior to MAKE a woman 'belong' to you as perfectly justified, even admirable proof of how MUCH he 'loves' you. (Gah, my own mother told me once that a boyfriend being extremely jealous was a compliment; her psychosocial orientation vis-a-vis gender and love was extremely unhealthy.)
The way she said “thanks bye” to the police on the phone after telling them about the PIN?! So heartbreaking bc you can hear the uncertainty in her voice. She sounds so scared. 😭
I mean, she'd just been told "k, thanks bye." By the cops. Imagine how belittled this poor young woman felt, even if she didn't necessarily feel physically threatened.
I thought that she sounded scared and insecure as well. All of these cases are horrific but this case makes me feel so very sad. Alice's murder was completely preventable, yet, here we are listening to Mike tell us about her last moments on earth, and murdered at the hands of a monster. I hope that every single day of the rest of his life is absolutely miserable and I hope that his fellow inmates make him fear for his safety every single bit as much as he made Alice fear for hers. He's a subhuman scumbag and he truly deserved the death penalty.
She betrayed her own rase by being with that Indian man. Sad that she died, but to her rase she was already dead because she would have procreated for the Indian rase. Sad.
He left neon signs that he would murder this poor young woman. The strength of her parents to go on to create a stalking and domestic violence foundation is awe inspiring, bless them.
@Alex F ahhhhh ok, you are trying to impress upon everyone that the women are to blame and in order to save themselves they need to carry weapons etc in their own private sanctuaries in case a deranged ex partner breaks in. I will reiterate from my previous comments to you on other posts. Teach boys/men to control themselves. Stop victim blaming.
That PIN system is the stupidest thing I've heard. Surely informing the stalker that they've had the police called on them, but then not doing anything about it, is only going to piss them off more and set them loose on the person they're stalking?? Am I missing something?? How is that meant to help!?
Alice’s “Thanks bye…” at the end of that call (17:06) was heartbreaking. You can hear; exhaustion, sadness and fear all at once in her voice. Authorities FAILED her, what a bunch of brain dead clowns.
Which is EXACTLY the reason why YOU'RE responsible for your own safety. Relying on someone else for protection is a sure fire way to end up like Alice.
@Haggis Muncher what in the world- she did everything she had to do: contacted the police, took precautions, reported him every single time… literally what else was she supposed to do? learn karate? way to blame the victim for what happened to them. a victim’s life shouldn’t revolve around their stalker just because the damn police cannot so their job properly.
@@mandarina4157 The only way she would be truly safe is to move far away with him not knowing. Even if the police took it seriously they can't keep him in jail indefinitely for stalking. If they give him a restraining order he will still break it. Yes the police should have taken it more seriously but even if they did it still would have happened.
imagine cheating and then feeling wronged because the person you cheated on doesn’t want to be bothered with you . i hope the worst is happening to him every minute of every day
I actually worked with Alice, you'll never meet a nicer girl in this world. She moved in together with Maxine as they thought it would provide more protection from Truman. They actually made sure Alice was always accompanied by a friend or colleague at all times but this evening her friend was stuck at work a little bit later and after her boss dropped her off, she decided to go in without waiting for her flat mate to get home, he was in and out within 10 minutes or so, blood everywhere but he only had a tiny speck of blood on a wristband. He was totally unhinged and ruined the life of such a wonderful girl. She has a charity in her name now to raise awareness about stalking etc. Heartbreaking :(
I rarely cry at the end of these episodes, I’ve heard so many terrible things it often just rolls off my back. This one left me a mess. Alice is all of us.
I have been shifting from one accommodation to another and changing my numbers and jobs to avoid this... Finally after 7 years and hot on my career, it has ended...i feel her fright and pain.
I know I'm way late; but really well written both in the words used and the profound meaning/impact. What a waste and absolute comedy (not funny at all) of errors. Tragic.
“I’m not intending to kill you” is exactly what someone who’s intending to kill you would say 😳 police really need to start taking these stalking reports more seriously… this beautiful soul was failed by the very system set to protect her and unfortunately she’s one of many.. 💔
Sadly she didn't get chance / didn't mention that part to the police....She'd said an ex with a PIN had left her chocolates and flowers and sadly didn't get to the part that he" wasn't going to kill her" I'd hope had she, that would have rung alarm bells, but who knows. The police are often very limited until a crimes been committed that can be easily proven. And so often in these cases that's far too late.
I also think 22 years sounds far too low. Would love to understand how the judge arrived at that number considering the prior stalking, the premeditation, the almost ritualistic way in which he killed her. I've seen teenage roadmen in England stab each other to death in a heated argument over weed dealing and they get 25 years straight out of the gate.
It is a life sentence. If I under stand it correctly the British constitution bands life enprisionment and capital punishment. The possibility of parole is 0, it's just to get around the banning of life enprisionment.
@@________stephens8251 this is massively incorrect. All convicted of murder in England are given life, and 99% of those get a minimum term to be served before being eligible for parole, which is often given. Life without parole (whole life order) is rare in England, only around 60 prisoners have it, Rose West, Levi Bellfield etc. The term 'life sentence' given to those with a minimum term comes from the fact they will be on licence for the rest of their lives, so can be recalled to prison for many reasons, not necessarily even committing a crime.
“Hey you and welcome” are words I love to hear because I know it’s time for Mike to tell us all a crazy story! Mike’s channel is literally one of the best on UA-cam!!!!
It's not the "cops". Its the laws. The cops can only enforce existing laws already in place by those in real power. The sad fact is matters like this are more reactive than proactive. It's messed up but its reality.
Friend of mine was stalked. She discovered that her ex-boyfriend was sneaking into her house every day while she was at work and just hanging around, taking naps in her bed, and then leaving before she got home. By the time she discovered it, he had been doing this for _months._ Creepy.
If you can't figure out your house has been entered by someone else, unauthorized, you have a big problem. I can just about identify people I know based on smell. And cigarettes, perfume, bo, all leave lingereing smells. Get a dog, they will alert you or deter people. Pluss dogs are just awesome.
@@snikrepak I'm gonna disagree. A stranger, yes. But someone who knows you intimately, knows your habits and probably spent time in your home would know what you would or wouldn't expect in your surroundings. Also, if you knew them and you were use to their smell, it wouldn't set off alarms. I absolutely agree with getting a dog! And changing your locks. Lol
Why does someone have to die before they are taken seriously? That poor girl must have been so afraid and no one would help her. It’s heartbreaking. Thank you for sharing this story with us, Mike. As always, very well told.
Because good police are an endangered species. And most legal systems could care less about regular people. God forbid someone stalked a famous person. They get the book thrown at them.
"I can't look, I'm sorry.... Oh my god, she's dead!" That is so fucking sad, I can't imagine seeing your friend like that. Alice must have been so terrified, for so long, it's unreal what she must have experienced right before she died. And Maxine will be scarred for life. It was just so incredibly preventable and that's just unforgivable.
I know this case so well Mike and I’m so glad you’re covering it. Alice was the sweetest and most kind woman and she was harassed, stalked and murdered by a controlling man but maybe most shockingly of all, she was completely let down by the police when she tried to do all the right things.
I'm so sorry,you're so right the police totally left her down,I think they are taking stalking more serious in Ireland anyway. She seemed like a really lovely girl. It's devastating. He is a monster.
The police done very well with my stalker, he has been charged 3 times and spent time in prison each time.. it’s finally stopped now, I haven’t heard anything from him for over a year. I know he’s free but don’t know where he’s living which is quite concerning given the threats I received. RIP Alice 💔
ACAB. I have had zero positive interactions with police. They refuse to get involved if they don't feel like it, simply put. They only look out for themselves and harass people just for kicks. Seriously, they are all a$$holes. I have known cops for decades and few have friends outside of fellow cops. Normal people find them arrogant and just plain weird. I was at a party hosted by a co-worker whose husband was a cop. One person said "So what's it like having a bunch of biker's partying a few doors down". Cop replies "We got bigger fish to fry, they're called terrorists"! This was just before the Olympics came to town. You could hear the freaking eyerolls.
Reminds me of when the the authorities asked me "are you sure it's that bad?" When I came forward about my stalker. Ladies, don't ever worry about them getting in trouble. Your safety is priority and if they didnt want to get in trouble, they shouldn't have behaved like that.
Women often use laws in their favor in spiteful ways... I'm not putting down your situation but you can't just run around arresting people for nothing you know
A police officer nearly rolled his eyes at me when I showed him a threatening text from a man who was stalking me which said "You're going to end up like your sister." For context, my sister had been dead for several years at this time. And this was not an isolated incident. This was along with sending photos of himself holding guns, a photo of my mom's house, a photo of my new car, threatening to report fabricated crimes about my dad to the authorities in an attempt to destroy him, sending boxes to my house full of things a person would use in a kidnapping (handcuffs, zip ties, duct tape, knives, a ski mask, etc.)
That’s horrible, to know you will die and yet no one will help. They should of at least help her leave the area so she could start a new under a new name, new identity even if they couldn’t stop him. Give her a chance to move across the states.
If she really thought he would slit her throat 6 times I am sure she would of been more serious as too change her address and name etc, but she was not thinking of the worst
@@--..__ Can't by a gun where she lives I believe. I think people have a lot of reliance on the police even if it's misplaced sometimes. I can see why someone that young would think the police could solve the problem.
“You can’t exactly put the onus on the victim” thank you Mike such true words. If only the police had recognised this poor Alice may have been alive today.
@@bbg7777 I can't think of anywhere that takes stalking seriously until after the (usually male) stalker has killed the (usually female) victim. At this point I'd be for real surprised to hear of police taking a stalker to task while the victim is still safe.
@@bbg7777 Be sure to not call them when you need them. If you can generalize all police because of an isolated incident, i assume it is ok to generalize certain people because of crimes committed by them.
@@shauncasey8295 Japanese police specifically getting deserved international criticism for not taking missing persons cases seriously until it is entirely too late is absolutely not an isolated occurrence or they would not have gained this reputation.. what you said is a good argument if you are talking to some police abolitionists lol but that’s not relevant here
@Augusto Pinochet sorry august but a gun in the US is the first step to totally legal self defense which will cause enough damage to be sure things do not continue.
The police likely didn't want to be labelled racist. You know that happens all the time. If the police won't even protect children from these degenerates because of racism accusations, why chance do you think grown ups would have?
@Alex F "When im a Dad i will not let my daughters date anyone with violent jobs no cops, no army, etc. " You're NEVER going to be a father. You wouldn't have the balls to join the army so you try to disparage those of us that do. By the way, I have a missus who I dote after and who does with me and preparing for our first kid. No longer in the army but if she were to cheat on me, I'd silently pack up my stuff and leave before she got home from work. You can't be a father if you're an incel.
Stalking is such an under rated crime. I’m always surprised at how many people seem to be unable to accept that someone would behave that way and don’t take the reporter seriously until there is violence
The really messed up thing is when this guy is explaining how he stalked her he doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. This guy's a real piece of work
When he categorically denies using controlling behaviour during their relationship and then says that he couldn't "let her" go on Tinder after they broke up! Too much of a PoS to even register the absurd irony of that. Really messed up story
Yeah he is pretty much saying it like it's acceptable and to be expected for him to flip out and change her own passwords to social media. "Of course I did that, you know how it is! These women think they can do whatever they want just because you cheat on them and they 'dump you'. But we all know this is just a break that she needs until she's ready to take me back, so.. Yeah. "
It’s pretty common to find Indian stalker especially on the street. I read a guy once stalked a girl and stabbed her to multiple times to death in public and nobody did anything. Many cases of acid attack on girls used to be common in India.
The message where he’s crying gave me chills. My abusive ex husband used to cry like that after a volatile outburst, to get me to stay. Luckily I managed to extract myself from the situation many years ago. So frightening for poor Alice, you can hear she’s scared in her voice when she calls the police. They let her down badly. My heart goes out to her family 😢
My dad would scare the shit out of my mom (she spared me the specifics) and she'd try to leave. He'd drop to his knees and cling to her and cry and cry like a little boy, begging for forgiveness, said he'd never do it again...My mom learned reeeal fuckin' quick. She was only 18 when they got married and she escaped for good at 21. I don't even know why my dad was like that, his parents were such good people. Bad seed I guess. 😞
@@kimmyfreak200 I have experienced a "bad egg" too and find it so creepy that they all sound the same. First the helpless little boy crying and with every phone call the voice gets more demanding until there are threats and yells only and they go into full psycho mode!
"You've got four tiny little scratches on your face, her throat is slit open, through the voice box." And he still sat there denying it and saying no comment. Makes me sick. It's amazing that this case and cases like these are being covered by Mike. Needs coverage.
I was kidnapped by a guy when I was in college, 18, on a first date. I finally convinced him to take me home so I could grab medicine. This was a lie that I believe saved my life. I told the college and ironically the police station for the town was in the building of the school. They took a report. Told me there wasn't much else they could do. The school took him out of the one class we had together. He sat outside my home all day everyday for weeks. Then he went away. I was terrified and felt alone. 2 years later at a concert he was 2 rows behind me. I had a panic attack and left. I've never seen him since it's been 10 yrs. We need the police to take us more seriously. We need better protection. We need someone to care. Bless this poor girl and her family. Thanks for shedding light on this one Mike. Love ya! ❤️
I was also in college, maybe 21 or 22 at the time, when I had to partner up with a classmate on a graded project. I invited him to my apartment because he had loud family over. He brought a 12 pack of pepsi and a jug of whiskey. He drank at least a pint of whiskey with two pepsi's within an hour, and started professing his undying love. We had only started talking as classmates that week. I asked him to leave, and that I wasn't interested, but he wouldn't. I then switched it up by saying something like, "tell me about how you know so soon that we are meant to be together?" When he started rambling, I interrupted him and said I had to take my elderly dog out for a walk, and slipped my cell in my back pocket. From the grass outside, where the whole building could hear me, I yelled at him to get out of my apartment before I called the cops. He left. I told the professor and the counselors at the school and they removed him from the class and threatened him with expulsion if he spoke to me again. It wasn't a kidnapping exactly, but I was definitely taken hostage for what felt like an eternity. Thankfully he got himself wasted pretty quickly and I knew I could pretend like everything was still cool long enough for me to get outside with my dog. When I was 19 or 20 I had another similar situation with another science project and another guy who used the study time to try to talk me into sleeping with him. I shut him down really quickly and threatened to tell the professor if it happened again and he backed off. I should have turned him in, but didn't. I was pretty naive at the time and didn't realize how fucked up that was. I was prepared the next time with the next person. I'm glad you got away and I'm sorry you were traumatized again seeing him at the concert later. You are not alone, and you are applauded for your bravery.
@@the_ravens_room thx. Idk . I was young and didn't really know how it all worked. Also small town college, police and courts all in same building. Also my parents weren't really the kind who did anything about it.
I don't understand how the police didn't do anything to help you! And it's situations like these that contribute to all the women who are taken and murdered bc they weren't taken seriously the first time they reported harassment and assault.
So you told the police or you told campus security? Because I’m almost positive the police would of served him with restraining order papers. Now campus security or police wouldn’t have been able to do anything because they’re not real police. Like if you went on a date with him and he invited you to his place that’s not kidnapping. 🤷♂️
Stalking is a crime and the onus isn't on the victim to punish that crime (it never should be, a crime is a crime even if the victim refuses to press charges). It's so disappointing to see this happen again and again.
It’s horrifying. My ex was going to kill me, he called me every day (even found my new number) and told me. Police did nothing, he just died of an overdose before he could do anything. I felt the fear Alice felt and I wish I could hug her. She was so young.
There's a way to stop stalkers. It's NOT going to the Police. That much I can tell you for sure. Police are literally the most useless individuals on the face of the planet. Imagin trusting your safety to them, and then thinking that it's someone else's fault you maid that decision.
My exex tried to reach me contacting my family and friends. Than she started to make her family contact me. Her sister continuously calling and messaging me that she was getting drunk at night without returning home and threatening suicide. I later found out that she did the same with her exes.
I mean unfortunately. “Stalking” in the way we use it, is not really a crime. It’s kinda shitty. But the starker pretty much has to put them in danger before it actually becomes a crime.
@@rydz656 30% of the local population for me 80-90% of all sex crimes....a problem no one is willing to mention because they dont want to be considered racist for stating a fact.
It's a laughably sad how little stalking is taken seriously in pretty much every country by law enforcement. These kinds of stories are far too common, and it's sad.
@@PoptartParasol And what's worse is that far too often the victim is convinced that THEY are the ones overreacting or somehow blowing things out of proportion. So by the time the threat of stalking is truly recognized and taken seriously it's too late.
@@j.rebekah8605 How long would he have been arrested for? A few months, at the very best? Which chances would be, that wouldn't happen since stalking isn't taken that serious in the first place. What would happen after he got out and possibly pissed she sent him away? Also, that doesn't change the fact majority of these cases don't even get the option to arrest their stalker.
Oh no! This was so triggering. I was stalked by an ex for 6 months - letters in blood, notes on my car, entering my workplace and yelling my name as he cried, threats to kill himself, threats to OD. This happened back when I lived in India. I'm so glad I got out of that safely. I'm sure the police would've completely dismissed the case because it was relationship between two men. I can see that obsessive look in his eyes. I remember that look from my ex. The lies, the gaslighting. I feel terrible for Alice and her family. I wish this never happened to her. I hope this worthless waste of a life doesn't ever get out of prison.
As a cop i had a girl with a similiar story come to the office after she got beat up by her ex on the street. She had received flowers, calls, nightly visits, ... In short there were more than 100 pages of evidence. I took it seriously. The prosecution however didnt and they dismissed the case ... they sure as hell dont take these things serious enough ...
just to let you know you belong to a group that is full of creepy sexual abusers , bullies , and incompetent people not saying you are but whats that saying u lot love to say to other people you are the company you keep yeah i guess everyone is responsible for the company they keep except police.
You're a hero and thanks for being an amazing officer who cares 👏. Stalking and domestic violence aren't taken seriously enough!!!! It's serious and leads to so much violence & murder. Laws need to be overhauled because they're a joke.
These laws are not all the same on a national level. Each state has their own laws regarding domestic violence and/or stalking laws. Some states are harsher than others and some states still do next to nothing for victims, like only giving a misdemeanor for physically violent domestic violence which results in giving the victim an order of protective which only orders that the perpetrator stay 1000 ft away from the victim and the victim receive paperwork about it. That is it. Anytime the protection order is violated the victim has to call the police, who only do anything if the perp is caught red handed, if the perp is no longer there when they arrive the only thing they will do is question the perp about the call from the victim. Because of this, many victims of domestic violence don’t even bother reporting any of their attacks to the authorities and are almost always criticized by EVERYONE for it
I think we all need to recognize that in most relationships like this, the stalker has begun stalking long before the breakup. So that by the time the breakup happens, they have already hacked into the partner’s social media, following them to and from work and school, isolated them from family/friends, etc. The fix is already in.
I agree. I was in a similar relationship (well if you call it that), the stalking started in the relationship with his control over my social life and finances, the mind games and manipulation of my family. The only way I could get away from him was to move states.
This is absolutely correct. Unfortunately this kind of controlling behavior during the relationship will be normalized by the abuser to the victim. “I trust you, it’s just I’ve been hurt before.” or “If you have nothing to hide, why do you care if I look at your emails or go through your stuff?”.
@@pennylane3324 Absolutely it starts pretty quickly in the relationship and the stalker slowly modifies the victims behaviour and isolates them from friends and family. The only reason I got out of my situation was that, after beating me up and locking me in for five days, he couldnt get the drugs he needed because he had been cut off for beating me up. He eventually told me that I had to go and score for him and when I got out I phoned the guy I was supposed to see and his girlfriend (The real reason he had been cut off) answered and she came and picked me up and took me to my folks house. I will be forever grateful to that girl, Mandy, I believe her name was, as I truly believed I wouldnt get out of that alive. If she hadnt told her boyfriend to cut him off, I dont think I would have got out. Not everyone in the drug world are bad people, some are really good people who have just got into bad situations. I think they should name and shame these people as well as putting them on a register because it seems to me these situations nearly always end badly. Like my abuser went on to do the same abroad and ended up dead. But, it could have just as easily been his victim who died at his hands.
I’m so glad I never dated anyone like this. What an absolutely nightmare for anyone who has had to deal with someone who behaved this way. I can’t even imagine
I find stalking to be one of the worst crimes. Mainly due to psychological impact. It's a slow and painful demise with plenty of missed opportunities to turn the course of events. There should be absolutely more stringent laws against stalking
"She wanted it to stop, but didn't want to get him into trouble" At this point the police should grow some balls/brains and either advise or take action. Isn't this like abusive relationship 101??
@@P9rkour90 I had a cop in my town actually got fired after stalking a girl who was in my class and pulling over guys she hung out with after they left her house and what not... he would sit down past her house while on duty and watch it
@@jhtsurvival Well done. Unfortunately if people just let this problem go the person can get worse and escalate it over time. He is better off doing a different line of work and hopefully getting his problem treated (doubtful he is, though).
It's sad, but i've seen girls drop charges and go back to abusive ex's. It's harder for the police to do anything if the victim doesn't cooperate. That's how R Kelly got off in his pee trial remember?
I knew someone murdered by a stalker. I also remember a story about a woman murdered by her POS ex the moment he was released from prison. For all victims of stalkers everywhere, please know you have done nothing wrong. The stalker is sick and unstable. Do whatever you have to do to protect yourself, even if it means moving far away.
When people call police about a stalker, they absolutely MUST take it with all seriousness and investigate immediately and properly. Don't wait because you never know when it will be too late... Too many people lose their lives because police aren't engaging enough with these issues.
Also male relatives/friends in her life should try to step in and beat the shit out of the stalker. Worked like a charm with the prick that stalked my sister. Thats after trying and failing going the police route though
@@vaalalves No, you're not blaming the victim. If you don't ask for help, help won't be there for you. My son was killed, and cops did nothing. He had a poor relationship with the deputy sheriff's dept. in San Diego. He hated them, they hated him. It sucks and I don't blame either side. Bad things DO happen to good people. I wanted them to find my son's killer. They REFUSED. Jonathan Mathew Wion. 8-16-87 to 2-10-17. Rest in peace Jon-Jon. Your mamma loves you. Still.
It's hard to investigate every case when the departments are getting defunded and told to focus on painting their cruisers rainbow colors. Also it doesn't help that 99% of those calls are nothing burgers. If you want to scold someone scold the people who falsely file these reports out of spite or because they are crying wolf.
It's outright disgraceful how cases like this are dealt with all around the globe. Same things happen regardless of country it is in. Laws need to be made to give all the power back to the victims.
After a particularly heinous gang attack on a young woman coming home on a bus after a movie, enough outrage finally hit the streets in India. Of the six on the bus, one was her boyfriend who was thoroughly beaten and gotten out of the way--- even the bus driver took part in the desecration. After major protests in New Delhi and surrounding areas, F I N A L L Y , new rape laws were on the books. India is a patriarchal society however, and I doubt procedures have changed "that much" .
@@Oneiriel *if you're white. Plenty of black folks who have stood their ground that are in jail for doing so. One case in particular was similar to this...a woman who had contacted police MANY times about an abusive ex, who at one point tried to kill her...she shot him under "stand your ground" rules, and she was tossed in jail for murder.
Wow this one is really sad. She seemed like such a sweet person. She did everything she was supposed to do, but the police failed her. Rest in peace Alice
Of course the police failed her. It seems that other countries have the same issues with police and the courts who are not actively protecting these people. Laws need to change ASAP!!!
Truly admirable. The kinds of people that are strong enough to not only *survive* a tragedy like this but when they do come out the other side, they take their pain and suffering and transform it into action for good- creating something for the world that will make it a better place and hopefully save others in the future from experiencing a similar tragedy. ♥️ I think that if you strive to be strong and courageous like these people you're doing the right thing in life.
When he said Alice said “ I don’t want to die. I want to live,” to him. Killed my soul. That is so sad because she was so young. You really never know when it’s your last day. R.I.H Alice
My heart really goes out to Alice. I worked a lot of years for divorce attorneys and I learned one inflexible truth: A piece of paper never stopped anyone from stalking, harming or killing another person. Restraining orders or Pins are useless of the restrained party really wants to get at you.
I was stalked years ago and I remember being scoffed at by the police when I physically went to the station. They all but laughed at me and I am sure they laughed after I had left. Anyway, this was around 1989 or so. Hoping things are changing for the better. Edited to add: Some years later I heard through the grapevine that my stalker had died. I immediately felt this huge relief of a stress that I wasn't fully aware the weight of.
I know some people say that we should never be glad for a person to die, but I'm glad your stalker died. these people don't change. they believe the object of their obsession is just that, an object and that they are entitled to them, their attention and time. I'm so glad you got out ok and hope you're living your best life
My lecturer organised a talk with Alice’s dad. He explained the whole situation about what happened with Alice. It was very hard to hear about what had happened to her and the stresses she had to go through. RIP Alice ❤️
I wasn’t expecting to hear her call to the police. This breaks my heart. She was so young and naive and still tried so hard to make it known that something was wrong. Stalking should be taken so much more seriously, I’m going through something similar and the police have said something physical has to actually happen before I can get a restraining order. I wonder if we can start a petition to nationally (ideally globally) get attention to this.
Where are you? I’m a medically retired cop and that’s not necessarily true-has there been any threatening communication and electronic evidence you can save? A judge may see that differently than what you’ve been told so far.
In my state someone can get an automatic temporary restraining order as part of a proceeding. No need to prove anything, just automatically issued when asked for, for either party. So like if you sued the guy for civil harassment, you could then get a restraining order issued automatically. Its temporary, but can last up to a year. And then you can get another one. In my state that is. So there might be other ways to get one. Might be worth talking to a lawyer, cops don't go to law school so don't know as much as a lawyer does about what all your options might be, and what knowledge cops do have tend to be hyper focused on criminal law so civil law options are something they are often not even aware of. Something I've recommended to women in this situation that sometimes has helped is to do the following. Get a photo of the stalker. Make some copies. Go around to your neighbors, like all the people on your block, or in your building if its an apartment situation, and introduce yourself, explain your situation, and give them a copy of the photo, and explain that this person has no legit reason to be anywhere on your block and that if they see him then he is up to no good and they should immediately call the police. Even if the police won't arrest him, the mere fact they show up every time he tries to linger, and all the dirty looks from neighbors who recognize him, might reduce his bravery. Not foolproof, and not absolute protection, and limited to the area you live, won't help you at the grocery store or whatever, but every little layer of protection can help and they can add up and its especially nice if you can make your home feel a little more safe. And side benefit, you can meet more of your neighbors and get some community feel going on your block. There might also already be a neighborhood watch, some neighborhoods set those up and work w/police, so if so, contacting them would be great, some neighborhood watches even have patrols. Give them copies of those photos. If there isn't, consider setting one up yourself, police will often help w/setting up and supporting a neighborhood watch too even providing resources. Depending on where you live of course. Another thing is to have friends check up on you, let htem know if you don't answer w/in X amount of time u want them to call police to do a welfare check on you. Another thing is to look in to women's shelters in your area. So like if you're just feeling like he's around and don't feel safe at home, you'll already know about this place you can retreat to to spend the night at, you'll already know where it is, how to get there, what times their doors are open, etc.... Won't having to be looking up this info in a panic during a situation because you'll already have looked it all up in advance.
@@SmegInThePants I do love your advice, but I wanted to ask: if the person were to find out that you'd distributed pictures and information on them throughout your community, could you then be accused of harassment or something similar? Obviously I don't personally believe that that's what it is, but as I think we can all agree, the law is flawed, and unfortunately trying to defend ourselves can lead us astray by accident. What do you reckon -- would the person have a case?
I’m going through the same thing… have been for almost a year, we’ve had him throw a brick through our window, has tried breaking in about 20 times. Still nothing has been done…. It doesn’t matter how many times he’s sends something via text email letter saying he’s going to rape and murder my girlfriend and then kill my 8 month old. Nothing happens, I caught the cops saying that they think I’m doing this or my girlfriend is….. I seriously don’t know what to do anymore
Hey Mike! I’m a stay at home mother of twins… I have very little to look forward to currently. I am suffering from postpartum depression as well as being a recovering heroin addict (2 years clean don’t worry!) But when you post, it gives me so much happiness! I get up and clean and shower listening to you. You have seriously helped me more than you know! EDIT: OH MY GOSH! You guys have me screaming from happiness in these comments! I feel so overwhelmed with joy. Thank you so much for your love and kind words. Wow.
Congrats on the 2 years! Post acute withdrawal is no joke, took me about a year without alcohol to feel close to normal again. And that didnt include the wild ride of pregnancy and hormones and being the vehicle for not one, but two lives! You got this 💜😊
Your edit of the notifications sounds and the rainy window was simple but super effective. Having an obsessive ex and constantly hearing those notifications was daunting and terrifying.
From personal experience I know this type of behavior is never taken seriously until it's too late. My ex violated the restraining order I had against him and all the judge did was say not to do it again. The justice system is fxcked
A friend of mine went through this with a guy she dated for a short time and basically the police told her they can’t do anything until he hurts her .But when a male friend intervened and roughed him up he went to jail for assault , very f*cked up system!
@Jade Ravenwolf The _only_ thing an RO is useful for is investigating the homicide of the person supposedly protected by the restraining order, and prosecuting the person who was being "restrained".
All I can think is, "Oh, Alice, you did everything you were supposed to do." How could they have failed her like this? She could have been protected, she called and asked them to help her. The stalking WAS identified while she was alive, it was mentioned in the fucking 911 call! Now, she is dead, and Harry isn't, and the police - What reparations have they made? It breaks my heart. Rest in peace, Miss Alice.
It’s unfortunate she had to live in a country where more protection often is given to attackers than victims and the government takes every possibility to defend oneself away.
@@shauncasey8295 I think that should be a case where authorities can overthrow a citizens request and arrest him anyway. Especially considering previous charges on the guy
@@autumnhoogsteen8494 I think I’ve heard of police still pressing charges even if the victim doesn’t want to. I’m pretty sure the case I am remembering was a DV case. It probably has to be a specific situation or maybe it doesn’t. I don’t know law but seems like a lot of law enforcement doesn’t either.
This is heartbreaking. I experienced something similar, and (as he had been violent to me before), he served time. IVO's don't stop these people, and a part of me is still in fear. Poor Alice: She was stalked, and he WANTED her to know he was doing it. The flowers, the door/window knocks, the barrage of calls/texts/emails. Police are getting better with it, but ANY behaviour like this needs to be taken seriously as people literally end up dead.
I had a stalker for 2 years. He also hacked into my accounts and would constantly message me. I went to the police and they told me. They couldn't do anything about it until he physically harmed me...What a joke!
@Mark Stewger Sorry do you know their password??? No, you don't. This is extremely jerky + unearned aggression from you. You aren't being a good person here.
A very similar situation happened to me, and at the time I was under 16! You think they would take it more seriously because I was a minor, no. I still have issues today because of the stalker I dealt with and I’m 27 now. It makes me so angry and sad they refuse to do more.
My point exactly. The cops don't protect people. They only enforce laws. What they told you is that only when a crime is comitted (the stalker harming you) would they take action. Its very sad but unfortunately true. You cannot depend on the police for protection.
Well we can't because so many people (mostly women) manipulate the authorities when they are spiteful, these cases are really common is difficult for the police to determine which one to spend their resources on.
@@LMA_PLS what's the evidence in this case? It sounds like she didn't want to get him arrested and never presented anything more than " he dropped off chocolates, went on my Facebook, and tinder, and won't stop messaging me" ... the only wrong doing by police imo is not explaining what a PIN was properly? If she isn't telling them the extent of the situation how can you blame them. You want police running around arresting every EX that won't stop messaging their Ex?
@@jhtsurvival What's the evidence? Only a prior restraining order and previous victim, all the messages and voice mails, the fact he was repeatedly told to stop contacting her but continued, leaving chocolates and flowers, disturbing messages about murder, threats of revenge porn, everyone who witnessed his behaviour, his commanding officer...the list goes on. UK police do not need victims of domestic violence to choose to press charges, asking her permission goes against guidelines. As to "You want police running around arresting every EX that won't stop messaging their Ex?" YES. When an ex is harrassing someone to the point of them going to the police, is then officially warned to stop but chooses to continue, is reported again, yes...arrest them! It is criminal behaviour and they can be convicted under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, Crime and Disorder Act 1998, and Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004. I'm not sure if you are just terribly ignorant in regard to coercive control, stalking, and domestic violence, or whether you are actually intending to defend this kind of criminal behaviour by blaming the victim.
@@RealmsOfThePossible sadly yes :( never trust the authorities .. (police justice system etc.) but also never go against them .. they can cause you much more harm than they will fix things for you..
@TMCS it got me also. I shit myself because I thought there was someone at my door 🙄 god love her she didn't deserve to leave this earth the way she did. May she rest in peace 🙏. Take care & be safe.
@Pol Pot 2024 your opinion is invalid the instance you make this about immigrants. Stop trying to make everything racist, you are triggered because you know that you're incompetent compared to them and nothing but a bigot.. Please re-evaluate your thinking because you need help. And yes it's part his parents fault for spoiling him but that doesn't remove the fact that the authorities failed the woman despite her repeated complaints also knowing the man's past which was on record.
Can only imagine how frightened she was, feeling alone like nobody can stop that scumbag. It's sad how little effort is done in stalking cases. Rest in peace, condolences to her family 🌷
Hearing about the lack of police intervention in stories like this always reminds me of that Simpsons episode when Marge wants help from the police to stop a woman she thinks is trying to kill her. She asks "do I have to be dead before you'll help me?" And Chief Wiggum goes "Well, not dead, dying."
@@DresdenShuffle 11x21 - It's a Mad Mad Marge Another good quote from it: "I thought you said the law was powerless" "Powerless to help you not punish you"
The second half, unstated, of “I’m not intending to kill you” is the most chilling part. I’m not intending to, but… It’s as blatant a red flag as his saying in the police interview that he just wanted “his answers” from her. Not her answers. His. No boundaries on this guy. None.
Why would you even suggest not thinking about killing someone unless at the very LEAST it had crossed your mind? I mean as veiled threats go, that wasn't even particularly subtle. Chilling
This happens way too often. When my ex was stalking me for leaving him, I nearly ended up the same way. The police told me their hands were tied until he actually DID something to me!
Yea I had the same said to me ...3 of my friends had taken action (literally just cornered him in my room and told him to leave me tf alone) after they found out my ex came to my house while I was babysitting and had a knife in his pocket and gun in his car.... He made a report but left those details out and the cops came threatening me with jail time. It's sad scary and sooo upsetting
Blame her worthless emasculated dad. He as a man and father figure should have done everything in his power to protect her. Even mom has a role as they both could have had Alice move in with them. Sickening.... easy to blame the system when the parents have a piece of the blame. I'm darn sure Alice told her parents about Harry the psycho maniac.
Some of the sentences these criminals get leave me absolutely baffled. How do you stalk and kill someone and then get at least 22 years in jail? It’s not like the victim is gonna be dead for at least 22 years. I’m not advocating for an eye for an eye here, he’s chances of getting out of jail should be zero. Lock him up and throw away the key.
I'm thinking death penalty. Try to put yourself in the victims shoes. Horrible end to her life. And for what. I dont think he should have the pleasure of breathing another breathe
22 years is 1 year shorter than her age when she died 😞 Totally unjust. He's not even getting put away for the number age she was when he took her life.
This case has pissed me off so much. They basically told her to F off when she tried to tell them she feared for her safety. Her death is 100% the police's fault. They did absolutely nothing to protect her.
I don't know what is more terrifying, being murdered or being stalked. My friend was stalked by her ex boyfriend for five years and when he offed himself. She finally felt freed. She told me, there were days when she thought it would be better to be dead than alive. And him dying, finally gave her room to live. Like Alice, my friend tried calling the police and they did nothing. My friend was just fortunate to live with her parents at the time and had good security. But victims of stalking shouldn't have to suffer because of that. There should be better stalking laws.
I’m sorry to say this but I am happy she has been able to feel free based on his actions to himself. Stalking literally feels like you are drowning but not passing out or dying. Blessings to you and your friend!
I had a guy I dated very briefly stalk me for like 5 months and it was TERRIFYING. He would show up to my college campus and stand by my classroom door, text me when I would be out saying "I know you're at xyz party, I have friends there to beat you up" and just scare me for months. It only stopped when I contacted a male cousin and asked him to handle it- never heard from the guy again
Something similar happened to my sister. Her ex boyfriend went off the deep end and threatened my family, my boyfriend (who was his best friend at the time) and was on hard drugs. When he died we were relieved, still am to this day. Never had to worry about him getting his revenge or doing something to my sister. I hated him. I'm really glad your sister is ok.
The frequency and quality of these video that Mike puts out is outstanding. Thanks Mike. You've earned every cent you've made from this channel, and that can't be said about most successful youtubers.
For sure. I just hope he takes care of himself too, and knows that we will wait for his great content if he ever needs to take a break for his own sanity. It can get dark covering true crime.
She should never have dated him in the first place. She is white European, he is Indian. By dating him she stabbed her own rase in the back and contributed to our decline...
@@M1985- me neither it kinda reminds me of that interview Yolanda did about her murdering Selena Q omg the fake words she put in Selena’s mouth & the story she came up with knowing damn well Selena ain’t say all that before she murdered her & a lot of the stuff yolanda said happened never happened 😭 it’s totally the same in both situations they delusional asf & obsessed narcissistic 🤡
Trying to get help as a stalking victim is absolutely crazy. I've had male and female friends who were stalked, one of the incidents I was there for personally. Seeing how the police decided to handle it was like a bad joke. The stalker was literally sending threatening messages while the police where IN the house yet they did nothing to help at all. Their stellar advice was "lol just block them" despite this being a months long situation and the person going through social media accounts like you'd go through cups of water. My male friend who went through being stalked was treated much the same except they liked to sprinkle in crap about how could he be scared of his abuser because she was female and smaller than him as if that's some sort of excuse. It changed the guy and to this day he's a shell of his former self. Stalking is no joke and it definitely needs to be dealt with more severely from what I've witnessed. Maybe if it was poor Alice would still be alive today. What a complete and total waste.
I was intending to comment , "Imagine being a male trying to report a stalker and getting them to help put an end to it." Then I got to the second part and was surprised, actually, to read about a situation similar to mine. The worst part is officers openly saying mocking shit and humiliating you. I'm not a defenseless man by any means. I also didn't want to beat the shit out of a woman or possibly wound her critically or fatally. It was that bad she had devised several plans to capture and torture me infact it all came to an end when she attempted one. Luckily I had developed a great sense of situational awareness and paranoia made me extraordinarily observant. She had a knife, was hiding and came at me from behind. I threw her to the ground and tossed the knife....called the cops. The scariest thing I had ever seen in my life was the way she changed from determined killer to helpless damsel in one instant. Crying and begging me to stop hurting her. If the cops took any longer I was in trouble of being jumped on by a group of guys that bought it lol then the cops bought it too, put me in the handcuffs and carried me away. Unbelievable...until they had a look at reports I had made and the most damning was video of the attack. Scary that without that video I would've been the one in trouble. Cheers!
@@Scarethelocals Jesus I'm sorry you went through that mate, I hope really you're doing better these days. Abusers LOVE the two face trick and it can shock you to your core the first time you ever see it. What people don't seem to grasp - or don't want to grasp - is that aye, you're average guy could fight back and pummel his abuser into paste. However they do that and their life is over, even one slap back in defence can get you carted off to prison. Male & Female stalking victims both get the crap end of the stick but I just wish people would learn more about male victims. My mate had bruises and shallow stab wounds all over him. Instead of people saying: "Holy crap are you ok? Do you need help?" all he got was "He must have made her angry lol" like being abused is funny. I don't blame him for hiding it so long.
@scare. That is horrifying. I'm truly sorry that happened to you. I hope you no longer have trouble with her. I'm glad you reported it, for future reference at least, if she tries to do anything like that again. Stalking, abuse, etc, should never be accepted by either party in a relationship. Love is not supposed to hurt. Wish you the best in your future relationship, please don't let it stop you from falling in love again. As someone who has been in your position before, there is love and good people out there, all the best ❤
Im a 6" males i was stalked by my 5'2 ex gf. it was stressful and at times terrifying. Had to park in a different street keep pets inside and redirect mail. 3 month relationship 9 months of being stalked. Everyone i told treated me as joke. It only stopped when her friends and family got involved and realized i wasnt the bad guy.
@@bourbonslurpee Yeah , people want to make it a joke or discount the danger if it happens to a dude. What they don't understand is that it's a nightmare situation because you're already dealing with a broken person that is very dangerous. Then we're dealing with the fact that most people aren't going to believe you from the jump and somehow make you the bad guy. In my case I had a lunatic that could flip from bloodthirsty and dangerous to sniveling,crying,scared little girl that is helpless and being "emotionally abused". She was so manipulative that she literally had the script flipped on me. She convinced everyone that I was the dangerous stalker and she was the victim. Oh and the last tidbit is not being sure about defending yourself against a woman if she does do something crazy, especially in my sitch because she was so damn manipulative and convincing. Yeah guys get it all ...the abuse,both physically and emotionally, being stalked and followed, not taken seriously, people think we're the actual threat, and the fear of defending yourself. Then it never goes away. People always want to make a joke out of it or believing we were never in any actual danger. I would have loved to have defended myself from the get go and put the fear of death in her but that could have had so many possible outcomes, mostly bad ones. I got lucky and found a cop that could see I was tortured by her and myself because of the head games and I didn't want to hurt my son's mother, I didn't want to blow her life up...but I also couldn't have her putting he and I in continuous danger. The officer did what was right ,which never happens to me, and tried to set her down the right path but... she must've gotten lost on it or fallen asleep along the way because we haven't heard anything in years.good luck 🤞
I've never understood stalking behaviour. If someone doesn't want you in their life anymore, stalking them isn't going to change their mind. If anything, it only makes their resolve to stay away stronger. It's high time the police started taking stalking seriously. Too many people have lost their lives because some creeps can't accept that it's over. RIP Alice!
Its the need for control. Even those not ex's will stalk- they "have" to have the upper hand of knowing what the other person is doing. Its psycopathy at its finest.
Amusing that you think the police "care". They are handcuffed (pun intended) by judicial restrictions, which apparently offer little real protection from stalkers. Orders of protection are a joke, like all statism, it relies on compliance to law by sociopaths.
Yeah, nothing says I love you more than creeping up in the middle of the night, and constantly ringing the doorbell and leaving chocolates and flowers. Terrifying! It's so sad to hear Alice's voice as she asked the police for advice and help and knowing they failed her. RIP.
This is a case I've heard discussed multiple times and every time I listen to the details there's an overwhelming feeling of frustration. It's almost like every time I hear it I hope maybe Alice will be okay at the end and she will be kept safe. Poor girl did what she could to prevent this outcome and it didn't work and that is incredibly heartbreaking.
It's incredibly heartbreaking that Alice did everything right in her power and the legal system failed her!!!! She did what she could to report the stalking and it wasn't followed up on or take seriously enough.
@@arynasabalenka3173 whoa there girly girl. I take inference to what you've written. You aren't by any chance the offspring or in the lineage of either the white suprematists/nazi or maybe the low life group the kkk. Your diatribe reeks of bigotry and racism.
@@anitaknight3915 the problem is that I don't think there was anything that could have been done. Even if the police take it seriously they can't keep him in jail indefinitely for stalking. Even if he gets a restraining order against him he would have still broken it.
@Aryna Sablenka I see no one can reply back to you now and comes up with the user name @UCitmOAP5DgDvU16YuzjMBLw Actually I should've written 'whoa there whity' and ended with you're a piece of brown stuff. Stop acting superior by using big words as you look like a silly boo with the spelling errors. As I hear quite often these days, I'd like to say to you to 'HAVE THE DAY YOU DESERVE'. (Ensuring I don't get called out for using bad language I decided to use vanilla wordings.)
@@chrishepburn1503 yeah it's an unfortunate thing and nothing usually detracts an unstable obsessive person from stating away . However, that officer didn't follow up properly after her second report to them after the pin.
This was his story: "Yes, I did leave me barracks and drive 2 and a half hours, across the Scottish/English border to Newcastle and arrived, unannounced, at Alice's house. There I confronted her and had a 5 minute heated debate where she accused me of stalking her and she said how she was scared I would harm her and potentially take her life. I said I would not and I left and drove the 2 and a half hours all the way back to Edinburgh. Incredibly, unbeknownst to me, just 5 min after leaving Alice alone, totally unharmed and absolutely, definitely NOT bleeding in any way, somebody else snuck into her home and murdered her! I mean, coincidence or what!" Yeeeeeaaaahh, that's a proper coinky-dink, innit. Of all the times for someone to sneak into someone else's house and attack them it just happens to be 5min after their 1 and only stalker had driven out of his way to confront her and have a discussion about harming her. So weird that.
Best comment. He is a text book predator. It rarely pays to be a sweet girl. Loud and outspoken females often end up alone. But they rarely end up like this. Poor sweet soul 💙🖤🦋🖤💙
@Alex F Yep it's confirmed. I was wondering if you had any similarities due to your previous comments on other posts. You have thought waaaaaaay too much about how to off someone and get away with it.
I listened to a podcast where more of the flat mate’s 999 call was played. It was absolutely horrendous and hearing some of it again now has brought tears to my eyes. I can’t imagine how traumatic that must have been for the flat mate. I hope she is healing well from it.
I remember this well, but I had never known the details or heard the phone recordings before. It made my blood run cold - I know, like me, there are people watching who have experienced a "Harry". The sobbing, desperate, even sweet voicemails, the veiled threat "I have photos of you but I would never send them because I love you so much" the gifts used like a shiny bauble at the end of a fishing lure. You are not alone and you are not a bad person for leaving, you can't help them and you need to save yourself. It doesn't make you selfish, it keeps you alive.
I've noticed whenever someone reports something about an ex or a stalker not much is done until the last minute. The authorities say they will improve and they never do.
Have you ever noticed there is an entire GENRE of "romantic" movies the plot of which involves the protagonist going to ridiculous lengths, deceptive, coercive, manipulative behaviors, to GET the girl he wants? And they always show that if Dude just hangs in there and KEEPS BATTERING AGAINST HER NO, she will eventually realize how great he is and fall into his arms? Our culture views warfare against women's consent as a positively adorable trait in men.
@@judithbradford9130 my kid's mom loves them types of movies and now she's with a possessive and controlling boyfriend and actually thinks I'm somehow wrong for not "fighting for her" I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees who scary that type of thinking is
@@judithbradford9130 I’m glad someone called this out….”nice guy” syndrome. So many weak dudes in this generation who have been brainwashed by those exact movies to be nice to women ONLY because they think it gives them a better chance, not because they’re actually good people. So when women tell them no because they see right through their facade these are normally the simps who end up buying them all these gifts and flowers or in worst cases, stalking them and keeping up with their every move instead of having the self respect to accept their decision and move on smh
As soon I as hear Mike's voice or That Chapter intro, I become all smiles. Seems a bit inappropriate, but I know he'll not only share the victims story but point out the learnings. Always looking forward to the next That Chapter!!!
"We'll do better from now on." Honestly getting pretty tired of hearing this exact excuse. Why not take cases like this seriously out of principle? Everyone knows how dangerous people like this guy are, and the authorities had all the evidence they needed to treat him as such... yet here we are again, with another murder that could have been prevented. Never outsource your own safety. What an infuriating case.
Never wait for the 'system' to gather encounters, phone calls and so on in order to get restraining orders and then, after months or years of being hunted, finally arrest the person for stalking. learn what you can do to protect yourself.
@@Tsiri09 you do realize even doing all that won't even get a solid conviction... Assault/rape gets let go far too many times the 'system' needs changed... Stalking/rape laws need to be put into place ...People are already doing what they can to survive... Yes let's also do the polices job on top of it all... Always protect yourself that we can agree on ...but when are we going to push for better police force? Why do these fuckers get paid if we aren't supposed to call them lol
Good idea, mate, as long as you multiply the police force by ten, I mean at least ten... Our society is sick and gravely so, our jails and prisons overpopulated, the police overwhelmed... I don't frankly see how they can handle every single call seriously. Neither do I see how our society can change for the better...
Being stalked by someone with murderous intent is high key one of my worst fears especially because meeting them you never really know that’s who they’ll turn out to be.
it is so scary how it only takes talking to the wrong person and then your life is ruined... so horrible. stalking is such a scary crime and a lot of times it isnt taken seriously
The indifference of the officer who took Alice's call when she called about the PIN. How many such calls do you get in a day, to not even ask: ARE YOU SAFE? This could have been prevented.
Way too many is the sad truth. But no it couldn't have. She said she didn't want further action. So there was no further action. Simple as, off to the next of 1000's calls for the day. That's the state of the government for ya.
I'm sure that's what they wanted to do. The laws need to be changed imo to allow police to arrest people who are obviously stalking. Especially if person getting stalked has proof
Thank you for being you and for doing all these videos for us. For being so kind and generous with the victims and telling their story and giving them the spotlight they deserve. You have saved me in more ways than one, so thank you I know it’s not much but I just wanted to show my gratitude to you. God bless you and keep on doing what you do
I love your heart so much, Mike. Definitely shines thru hugely in this one. Your anger, your outrage for Alice make me glad men like you DO exist. Love ya, Mike. Thank you, again, for sharing your heart and your talent with us. Hoping you take time to rest and relax and watch some light-hearted stuff, too. 💖 Julia
I had a peeping Tom that was stalking me in Miami Beach. Whenever he saw me he would expose himself. I phoned the police. Two detectives came. They wanted to see him do it. I sat on my balcony reading a book while the detectives were hiding . It started to rain. I went in the house and the detectives called me and told me to stay inside while they arrested him. And he had a newborn baby with his wife! It's guys like him that turn into killers. R.I.P. sweet lady
Yes, it is. Some people think men who flash are just amusing weirdos but it’s been proved time and time again flashers often go on to commit far more serious crimes. The Police officer here in the UK who kidnapped raped and murdered a lady quite recently is currently up on charges of flashing he committed in the weeks leading up to Sarah’s murder 😞 extremely disturbing people. That must have been concerning for you, I’m glad the police took your complaint seriously.
The sad thing is I and probably a lot of other women and men know exactly how Alice felt when that phone went off again and again it’s terrifying! Poor girl is should never have happened to her. A total waste of a life and her poor friend that found her 😢 I hope she has managed to heal from it. 💖
It creates a level of paranoia and physical illness within your own skin that most people cannot imagine. You wouldn’t wish it on your worst enemy. It needs to be taken as seriously as investigating assault, because that’s exactly what it is. Sending all the love💗
I've been in a similar situation, I'm afraid to say. As a man. It is very unsettling and you almost feel too pathetic to tell anyone, like it's embarrassing for you. You are also left feeling very on edge, not sure what the future holds and frankly not really sure what to do.
Will never forget my mothers words when I was young and naive. When a man abuses you and come back to apologies with tears running down his face that you have to forgive and forget, because he loves you and cannot live without you...as soon as you see tears, run as hard as you can. He wasn't crying when he was hitting you so don't believe his tears when you are leaving him. He is just crying because there is no one to control when you leaves him. Thanks for the another heartfelt story Mike.
So, she basically told you to be unforgiving because... tears? odds are they haven't changed and would still be abusive, of course, but why tears of all things?
Also, they stick flowers and chocolate out like magic charms to make you submit, whether you like those things or not, because GOOD guys bring FLOWERS and Chocolates! Even while they are violating your privacy and coercing you, demanding interaction entirely without your consent, they think this PROVES they are 'sorry' and 'will be good'... and so you have to do what they want It shows a complete misunderstanding of what BEING A GOOD (person, friend, man, whatever) actually means-- trying to compel you against your will by performance of these culturally coded 'romantic' behaviors, and then, if you don't respond as their script dictates, they get angry and call you names. And the *worst* is when you get a cop who SNEERS and says so what's YOUR problem, you're complaining about CHOCOLATES? with obvious identification with the 'poor guy' who is supposedly 'trying so hard' to win you back, so what kind of cold mean b*ch are you? Cops in the States, statistically, are the most likely to be domestic abusers and very often view any amount of coercive behavior to MAKE a woman 'belong' to you as perfectly justified, even admirable proof of how MUCH he 'loves' you. (Gah, my own mother told me once that a boyfriend being extremely jealous was a compliment; her psychosocial orientation vis-a-vis gender and love was extremely unhealthy.)
Ur mother is entirely right! Great advice to give!
@@judithbradford9130 Good men don't hit, and great men spank--for her pleasure. BIG difference there.
Possessive men only cry if they feel they will lose their favorite toy (gf)
I've heard these sorts of scenarios referred to as "murders in slow motion" and it's morbidly accurate. Rip Alice
Omg. So true and tragic.
Hauntingly accurate!
When you say murders in slow motion, what do you mean exactly? By the method of death as in the slit throat or the actual stalking?
@@shamkawow1 you don’t think the carefree part of her died while being stalked? Like, right before he legitimately killed her?
@@shamkawow1 I think they mean the slow escalation of abusive/antisocial behavior to murder. And everyone sees it coming only after the fact
The way she said “thanks bye” to the police on the phone after telling them about the PIN?! So heartbreaking bc you can hear the uncertainty in her voice. She sounds so scared. 😭
Really is. It's unfortunate she was so polite and timid as the police minimized her problem and brushed her aside.
I mean, she'd just been told "k, thanks bye." By the cops. Imagine how belittled this poor young woman felt, even if she didn't necessarily feel physically threatened.
I thought the same thing it’s so sad 😭
It's manipulation.
I thought that she sounded scared and insecure as well.
All of these cases are horrific but this case makes me feel so very sad.
Alice's murder was completely preventable, yet, here we are listening to Mike tell us about her last moments on earth, and murdered at the hands of a monster.
I hope that every single day of the rest of his life is absolutely miserable and I hope that his fellow inmates make him fear for his safety every single bit as much as he made Alice fear for hers.
He's a subhuman scumbag and he truly deserved the death penalty.
The recording of the woman calling out for her friend broke my heart.
Her wee voice. she was frightened but still polite. God love her. this is one of the worst ones. stalking needs to be highlighted, its terrifying.
She betrayed her own rase by being with that Indian man. Sad that she died, but to her rase she was already dead because she would have procreated for the Indian rase. Sad.
Yes, that stood out to me too. 😔 She was so polite and kind and thanked them on her last call asking for help before she would be killed by him.
I was just about to make a comment on that, I noticed it too. That final thanks, bye broke my heart tbh
@It's 65dos I thought the same & my heart hurt for Her✨She is Dancing among The Stars in The Universe!!!
NO she’s not!
Get the truth from God instead of spreading trashy lies by Satan!
He left neon signs that he would murder this poor young woman. The strength of her parents to go on to create a stalking and domestic violence foundation is awe inspiring, bless them.
@Alex F She lived in the UK, where as I understand it they are not allowed to own firearms. But I don't know for sure how it works there
@Alex F who keeps pepper spray in their bathroom? what is wrong with you?
@Alex F ahhhhh ok, you are trying to impress upon everyone that the women are to blame and in order to save themselves they need to carry weapons etc in their own private sanctuaries in case a deranged ex partner breaks in. I will reiterate from my previous comments to you on other posts. Teach boys/men to control themselves. Stop victim blaming.
@Alex F This is the UK. We aren't allowed to have guns and pepper spray on us
@Alex F this comes off as insensitive and victim-blamey
The fact he said “I don’t want to kill you” should have made them take it seriously. What normal person says that?
Exactly!
I know like so random to say if you’re not thinking it…
Yeah, it sounded like a warning- I dont wanna kill you, but if you keep ignoring me I have to
@@HowardMoon56 it was most likely to persuade her that his previous (undocumented in this video) threats weren't real/plausible/evident.
Yeah, it's not a rational train of thought. "Here's some chocolate and flowers..... and btw.... "
That PIN system is the stupidest thing I've heard. Surely informing the stalker that they've had the police called on them, but then not doing anything about it, is only going to piss them off more and set them loose on the person they're stalking?? Am I missing something?? How is that meant to help!?
I was thinking the same thing.
Almost the same with restraining orders. I went through absolute hell with my ex and restraining orders. I'm in US
Welcome to England. Rights of individuals. God knows why this system is set this way. Better not to get involved and stay home safe without dating.
Alice’s “Thanks bye…” at the end of that call (17:06) was heartbreaking. You can hear; exhaustion, sadness and fear all at once in her voice. Authorities FAILED her, what a bunch of brain dead clowns.
Which is EXACTLY the reason why YOU'RE responsible for your own safety.
Relying on someone else for protection is a sure fire way to end up like Alice.
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420 You should always look out for yourself no matter what. But they are there to serve and protect. No need to victim shame.
@Haggis Muncher what in the world- she did everything she had to do: contacted the police, took precautions, reported him every single time… literally what else was she supposed to do? learn karate? way to blame the victim for what happened to them. a victim’s life shouldn’t revolve around their stalker just because the damn police cannot so their job properly.
@@mandarina4157 The only way she would be truly safe is to move far away with him not knowing. Even if the police took it seriously they can't keep him in jail indefinitely for stalking. If they give him a restraining order he will still break it. Yes the police should have taken it more seriously but even if they did it still would have happened.
I heard the total despair in Her voice. It broke My heart too. She wanted help, She just didn't know what to do.
imagine cheating and then feeling wronged because the person you cheated on doesn’t want to be bothered with you . i hope the worst is happening to him every minute of every day
I actually worked with Alice, you'll never meet a nicer girl in this world. She moved in together with Maxine as they thought it would provide more protection from Truman. They actually made sure Alice was always accompanied by a friend or colleague at all times but this evening her friend was stuck at work a little bit later and after her boss dropped her off, she decided to go in without waiting for her flat mate to get home, he was in and out within 10 minutes or so, blood everywhere but he only had a tiny speck of blood on a wristband. He was totally unhinged and ruined the life of such a wonderful girl. She has a charity in her name now to raise awareness about stalking etc. Heartbreaking :(
This is so sad, it looks like everyone did their part apart from the police.
So sad
Dang.. too bad she didn't have a gun to defend herself
@@jhtsurvival it's England, nobody has a gun to defend themselves :(
It's time to haul our asses to Texas.....😡🤬
You just said everything we all saw in this video .
I rarely cry at the end of these episodes, I’ve heard so many terrible things it often just rolls off my back. This one left me a mess. Alice is all of us.
I have been shifting from one accommodation to another and changing my numbers and jobs to avoid this... Finally after 7 years and hot on my career, it has ended...i feel her fright and pain.
Get a grip!
@@JWB86 Get some compassion.
I know I'm way late; but really well written both in the words used and the profound meaning/impact. What a waste and absolute comedy (not funny at all) of errors. Tragic.
“I’m not intending to kill you” is exactly what someone who’s intending to kill you would say 😳 police really need to start taking these stalking reports more seriously… this beautiful soul was failed by the very system set to protect her and unfortunately she’s one of many.. 💔
“I’m not gonna rob you!”
-everybody ever asking for directions/to use your phone who intends on robbing you
Sadly she didn't get chance / didn't mention that part to the police....She'd said an ex with a PIN had left her chocolates and flowers and sadly didn't get to the part that he" wasn't going to kill her"
I'd hope had she, that would have rung alarm bells, but who knows. The police are often very limited until a crimes been committed that can be easily proven. And so often in these cases that's far too late.
Its not the job of police to prevent crime, its to deal with it after it happens.
@@jasonx-ray3921 racism is gross
@@jasonx-ray3921 The men who have abused me were all white so wtf man shut up
"Life in prison. With a minimum of 22 years."
There should be no minimum. It should be life without the possibility of parole or capital punishment.
I also think 22 years sounds far too low. Would love to understand how the judge arrived at that number considering the prior stalking, the premeditation, the almost ritualistic way in which he killed her.
I've seen teenage roadmen in England stab each other to death in a heated argument over weed dealing and they get 25 years straight out of the gate.
It is a life sentence.
If I under stand it correctly the British constitution bands life enprisionment and capital punishment. The possibility of parole is 0, it's just to get around the banning of life enprisionment.
We got rid of capital punishment decades ago (60+?) It IS life in prison, he will not get parole in 22yrs, no way.
@@________stephens8251 this is massively incorrect. All convicted of murder in England are given life, and 99% of those get a minimum term to be served before being eligible for parole, which is often given. Life without parole (whole life order) is rare in England, only around 60 prisoners have it, Rose West, Levi Bellfield etc.
The term 'life sentence' given to those with a minimum term comes from the fact they will be on licence for the rest of their lives, so can be recalled to prison for many reasons, not necessarily even committing a crime.
@@adamb1098 ok thanks for clearing it up!
I have brain damage so I often miss understand things thanks for being so polite.
“Hey you and welcome” are words I love to hear because I know it’s time for Mike to tell us all a crazy story! Mike’s channel is literally one of the best on UA-cam!!!!
Deff is even Mr Jiles That I thought I'd never say another was better Im sorry but I am with Mike 😉
"MOI NAME IS MOIKE!"
Two times a week I live for ! Thanks mike ! You bring order to chaos for me !
"A story of incompetence. No more spoilers".
@@EyesonEnforcement911 and underneath it States proudly "translate to English"
THE best coverage I have watched of this case. I’m a domestic abuse specialist and have just shared it with my colleagues. Thanks.
D.v. specialist. Ok why do abused women go back to the guy that physically and or mentally abused them? Time after time after time??
Trauma bond. Read about it. Study it.
@@psychoticpsycho7665 fear of retaliation. leaving is your most likely to be kidnapped, severely beaten or murdered
@@psychoticpsycho7665google is right there
I always find it disgusting how little cops do for people who are being stalked. What a sad story and this woman was always so nice with the cops...
probably because cops are just as controlling with their spouses so they see it as normal
Why would they help a woman who has betrayed her own Europid rase to be with an Indian man?
It's not the "cops". Its the laws. The cops can only enforce existing laws already in place by those in real power. The sad fact is matters like this are more reactive than proactive. It's messed up but its reality.
I was in a similar situation and police help me so much.
Because men get stalked every day. But then it's viewed as non threatning. So from where do you start?
Friend of mine was stalked. She discovered that her ex-boyfriend was sneaking into her house every day while she was at work and just hanging around, taking naps in her bed, and then leaving before she got home. By the time she discovered it, he had been doing this for _months._ Creepy.
Was he arrested??
If you can't figure out your house has been entered by someone else, unauthorized, you have a big problem. I can just about identify people I know based on smell. And cigarettes, perfume, bo, all leave lingereing smells. Get a dog, they will alert you or deter people. Pluss dogs are just awesome.
@@snikrepak 🥳 victim blaming, woohoo! Woohoo!!🥳
@@snikrepak I'm gonna disagree. A stranger, yes. But someone who knows you intimately, knows your habits and probably spent time in your home would know what you would or wouldn't expect in your surroundings. Also, if you knew them and you were use to their smell, it wouldn't set off alarms.
I absolutely agree with getting a dog! And changing your locks. Lol
I would do an UV scan of the whole house if I were her, especially clothes.
Why does someone have to die before they are taken seriously? That poor girl must have been so afraid and no one would help her. It’s heartbreaking.
Thank you for sharing this story with us, Mike. As always, very well told.
It's actually because people don't give a shit about others... Unless it affects themselves of course.
Apathy. It will be the end of humanity.
So thankful that women in America are allowed to own and carry guns. It definitely levels the playing field when it comes to these psychopaths.
Because good police are an endangered species. And most legal systems could care less about regular people. God forbid someone stalked a famous person. They get the book thrown at them.
@@80bbygrl I bought my girl a Pistol and training for her birthday. Protect yourselves because the cops won't.
"I can't look, I'm sorry.... Oh my god, she's dead!" That is so fucking sad, I can't imagine seeing your friend like that. Alice must have been so terrified, for so long, it's unreal what she must have experienced right before she died. And Maxine will be scarred for life.
It was just so incredibly preventable and that's just unforgivable.
I know this case so well Mike and I’m so glad you’re covering it.
Alice was the sweetest and most kind woman and she was harassed, stalked and murdered by a controlling man but maybe most shockingly of all, she was completely let down by the police when she tried to do all the right things.
i cant imagine a greater despair then being abandoned by the one group of people you trust to keep you safe
I'm so sorry,you're so right the police totally left her down,I think they are taking stalking more serious in Ireland anyway. She seemed like a really lovely girl. It's devastating. He is a monster.
@@leaf4958 and it seems it's the case in every country in the world. They serve those who feed them.
The police done very well with my stalker, he has been charged 3 times and spent time in prison each time.. it’s finally stopped now, I haven’t heard anything from him for over a year. I know he’s free but don’t know where he’s living which is quite concerning given the threats I received.
RIP Alice 💔
ACAB. I have had zero positive interactions with police. They refuse to get involved if they don't feel like it, simply put. They only look out for themselves and harass people just for kicks. Seriously, they are all a$$holes. I have known cops for decades and few have friends outside of fellow cops. Normal people find them arrogant and just plain weird. I was at a party hosted by a co-worker whose husband was a cop. One person said "So what's it like having a bunch of biker's partying a few doors down". Cop replies "We got bigger fish to fry, they're called terrorists"! This was just before the Olympics came to town. You could hear the freaking eyerolls.
*Nothing says 'romance' quite like flowers, chocolates, and a voice message that expresses the emphatic absence of future homicidal intent.* 💐🍫❤
He literally said I’m not going to kill you at the end of the voicemail like 👍🏻 ok…… sure
And they say chivalry is dead
My stalker just wanted to kill my stepdad, kinda wish I'd let him now lol
Hey, the way you say it makes it sound like a bad thing! 🤣
@MusicMaster1987 XD
Reminds me of when the the authorities asked me "are you sure it's that bad?" When I came forward about my stalker. Ladies, don't ever worry about them getting in trouble. Your safety is priority and if they didnt want to get in trouble, they shouldn't have behaved like that.
Women often use laws in their favor in spiteful ways... I'm not putting down your situation but you can't just run around arresting people for nothing you know
A police officer nearly rolled his eyes at me when I showed him a threatening text from a man who was stalking me which said "You're going to end up like your sister."
For context, my sister had been dead for several years at this time.
And this was not an isolated incident. This was along with sending photos of himself holding guns, a photo of my mom's house, a photo of my new car, threatening to report fabricated crimes about my dad to the authorities in an attempt to destroy him, sending boxes to my house full of things a person would use in a kidnapping (handcuffs, zip ties, duct tape, knives, a ski mask, etc.)
"I don't want to kill you" was the creepiest line I've ever heard.
Poor girl contacted the police for quite a time and they did nothing to help her.
It’s so sad to think in her last minutes, she wasn’t even surprised. She knew it was coming it was just a matter of when.
People like that dude, make me sick to the core. Scumbag at the highest level…..God bless Alice and her family
That’s horrible, to know you will die and yet no one will help. They should of at least help her leave the area so she could start a new under a new name, new identity even if they couldn’t stop him. Give her a chance to move across the states.
If she really thought he would slit her throat 6 times I am sure she would of been more serious as too change her address and name etc, but she was not thinking of the worst
She could have moved to her hometown, taken self defence classes, bought a gun.... Anything except just hope the police save her
@@--..__ Can't by a gun where she lives I believe. I think people have a lot of reliance on the police even if it's misplaced sometimes. I can see why someone that young would think the police could solve the problem.
“You can’t exactly put the onus on the victim” thank you Mike such true words. If only the police had recognised this poor Alice may have been alive today.
And that is the stone cold truth. They seem totally unconcerned, both in the UK and US.
@@sarahalbers5555 Japan, australia, south america, everywhere essentially. sickening police mentality
@@bbg7777 I can't think of anywhere that takes stalking seriously until after the (usually male) stalker has killed the (usually female) victim.
At this point I'd be for real surprised to hear of police taking a stalker to task while the victim is still safe.
@@bbg7777 Be sure to not call them when you need them. If you can generalize all police because of an isolated incident, i assume it is ok to generalize certain people because of crimes committed by them.
@@shauncasey8295 Japanese police specifically getting deserved international criticism for not taking missing persons cases seriously until it is entirely too late is absolutely not an isolated occurrence or they would not have gained this reputation.. what you said is a good argument if you are talking to some police abolitionists lol but that’s not relevant here
Well, being told by police "your behavior is not acceptable!" DEFINITELY stops criminals and stalkers.
@Augusto Pinochet sorry august but a gun in the US is the first step to totally legal self defense which will cause enough damage to be sure things do not continue.
Yep, works like a charm!
@@Davidautofull this feels like why the US has more than four times the murders per capita than the UK
The police likely didn't want to be labelled racist.
You know that happens all the time.
If the police won't even protect children from these degenerates because of racism accusations, why chance do you think grown ups would have?
@Alex F "When im a Dad i will not let my daughters date anyone with violent jobs no cops, no army, etc. "
You're NEVER going to be a father.
You wouldn't have the balls to join the army so you try to disparage those of us that do.
By the way, I have a missus who I dote after and who does with me and preparing for our first kid.
No longer in the army but if she were to cheat on me, I'd silently pack up my stuff and leave before she got home from work.
You can't be a father if you're an incel.
Stalking is such an under rated crime. I’m always surprised at how many people seem to be unable to accept that someone would behave that way and don’t take the reporter seriously until there is violence
The really messed up thing is when this guy is explaining how he stalked her he doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. This guy's a real piece of work
Don't be racist.
It's part of his culture to view women as less than.
When he categorically denies using controlling behaviour during their relationship and then says that he couldn't "let her" go on Tinder after they broke up! Too much of a PoS to even register the absurd irony of that. Really messed up story
Yeah he is pretty much saying it like it's acceptable and to be expected for him to flip out and change her own passwords to social media. "Of course I did that, you know how it is! These women think they can do whatever they want just because you cheat on them and they 'dump you'. But we all know this is just a break that she needs until she's ready to take me back, so.. Yeah. "
Well, he wanted his answers! tststs
It’s pretty common to find Indian stalker especially on the street. I read a guy once stalked a girl and stabbed her to multiple times to death in public and nobody did anything. Many cases of acid attack on girls used to be common in India.
The message where he’s crying gave me chills. My abusive ex husband used to cry like that after a volatile outburst, to get me to stay. Luckily I managed to extract myself from the situation many years ago. So frightening for poor Alice, you can hear she’s scared in her voice when she calls the police. They let her down badly. My heart goes out to her family 😢
my ex did that too...he would cry and sound like a child...he was a monster
Yes, I've seen and heard that pathetic little crying from grown men in my family when they are trying to manipulate someone.
My dad would scare the shit out of my mom (she spared me the specifics) and she'd try to leave. He'd drop to his knees and cling to her and cry and cry like a little boy, begging for forgiveness, said he'd never do it again...My mom learned reeeal fuckin' quick. She was only 18 when they got married and she escaped for good at 21. I don't even know why my dad was like that, his parents were such good people. Bad seed I guess. 😞
@@WouldntULikeToKnow. 100% those tears are just a tool for manipulation.
@@kimmyfreak200 I have experienced a "bad egg" too and find it so creepy that they all sound the same. First the helpless little boy crying and with every phone call the voice gets more demanding until there are threats and yells only and they go into full psycho mode!
"You've got four tiny little scratches on your face, her throat is slit open, through the voice box." And he still sat there denying it and saying no comment. Makes me sick. It's amazing that this case and cases like these are being covered by Mike. Needs coverage.
The way he was so emotionless through the whole thing. Sure sign he was satisfied with what he did.
He looked like a wild animal that was in a fight and he still denies it 😪
I was kidnapped by a guy when I was in college, 18, on a first date. I finally convinced him to take me home so I could grab medicine. This was a lie that I believe saved my life. I told the college and ironically the police station for the town was in the building of the school. They took a report. Told me there wasn't much else they could do. The school took him out of the one class we had together. He sat outside my home all day everyday for weeks. Then he went away. I was terrified and felt alone. 2 years later at a concert he was 2 rows behind me. I had a panic attack and left. I've never seen him since it's been 10 yrs. We need the police to take us more seriously. We need better protection. We need someone to care. Bless this poor girl and her family. Thanks for shedding light on this one Mike. Love ya! ❤️
I was also in college, maybe 21 or 22 at the time, when I had to partner up with a classmate on a graded project. I invited him to my apartment because he had loud family over. He brought a 12 pack of pepsi and a jug of whiskey. He drank at least a pint of whiskey with two pepsi's within an hour, and started professing his undying love. We had only started talking as classmates that week. I asked him to leave, and that I wasn't interested, but he wouldn't. I then switched it up by saying something like, "tell me about how you know so soon that we are meant to be together?" When he started rambling, I interrupted him and said I had to take my elderly dog out for a walk, and slipped my cell in my back pocket. From the grass outside, where the whole building could hear me, I yelled at him to get out of my apartment before I called the cops. He left. I told the professor and the counselors at the school and they removed him from the class and threatened him with expulsion if he spoke to me again.
It wasn't a kidnapping exactly, but I was definitely taken hostage for what felt like an eternity. Thankfully he got himself wasted pretty quickly and I knew I could pretend like everything was still cool long enough for me to get outside with my dog.
When I was 19 or 20 I had another similar situation with another science project and another guy who used the study time to try to talk me into sleeping with him. I shut him down really quickly and threatened to tell the professor if it happened again and he backed off. I should have turned him in, but didn't. I was pretty naive at the time and didn't realize how fucked up that was. I was prepared the next time with the next person.
I'm glad you got away and I'm sorry you were traumatized again seeing him at the concert later. You are not alone, and you are applauded for your bravery.
Omg so sorry to hear that. How was he not charged with kidnapping??
@@the_ravens_room thx. Idk . I was young and didn't really know how it all worked. Also small town college, police and courts all in same building. Also my parents weren't really the kind who did anything about it.
I don't understand how the police didn't do anything to help you! And it's situations like these that contribute to all the women who are taken and murdered bc they weren't taken seriously the first time they reported harassment and assault.
So you told the police or you told campus security? Because I’m almost positive the police would of served him with restraining order papers. Now campus security or police wouldn’t have been able to do anything because they’re not real police.
Like if you went on a date with him and he invited you to his place that’s not kidnapping.
🤷♂️
Stalking is a crime and the onus isn't on the victim to punish that crime (it never should be, a crime is a crime even if the victim refuses to press charges). It's so disappointing to see this happen again and again.
It’s horrifying. My ex was going to kill me, he called me every day (even found my new number) and told me. Police did nothing, he just died of an overdose before he could do anything. I felt the fear Alice felt and I wish I could hug her. She was so young.
There's a way to stop stalkers. It's NOT going to the Police. That much I can tell you for sure.
Police are literally the most useless individuals on the face of the planet. Imagin trusting your safety to them, and then thinking that it's someone else's fault you maid that decision.
My exex tried to reach me contacting my family and friends.
Than she started to make her family contact me. Her sister continuously calling and messaging me that she was getting drunk at night without returning home and threatening suicide.
I later found out that she did the same with her exes.
I mean unfortunately. “Stalking” in the way we use it, is not really a crime.
It’s kinda shitty. But the starker pretty much has to put them in danger before it actually becomes a crime.
@@rydz656 30% of the local population for me 80-90% of all sex crimes....a problem no one is willing to mention because they dont want to be considered racist for stating a fact.
It's a laughably sad how little stalking is taken seriously in pretty much every country by law enforcement. These kinds of stories are far too common, and it's sad.
People stalk before they go in and hunt their prey. This applies to all animals, especially humans
So WHY IN THE WORLD is it not taken seriously???
@@PoptartParasol And what's worse is that far too often the victim is convinced that THEY are the ones overreacting or somehow blowing things out of proportion. So by the time the threat of stalking is truly recognized and taken seriously it's too late.
So when the police asked her is she wanted him arrested, you don't interpret that as taking it seriously. She said no to that. Why?!?
@@j.rebekah8605 How long would he have been arrested for? A few months, at the very best? Which chances would be, that wouldn't happen since stalking isn't taken that serious in the first place. What would happen after he got out and possibly pissed she sent him away? Also, that doesn't change the fact majority of these cases don't even get the option to arrest their stalker.
@@j.rebekah8605 there are many reasons why people who have been abused deny help.
fuckin sucks to hear the uncertainty in her voice when she’s calling the police.
I thought the same & my heart hurt for Her✨She is Dancing among The Stars in The Universe!!!
they aren't much help and she knew it
Oh no! This was so triggering. I was stalked by an ex for 6 months - letters in blood, notes on my car, entering my workplace and yelling my name as he cried, threats to kill himself, threats to OD. This happened back when I lived in India. I'm so glad I got out of that safely. I'm sure the police would've completely dismissed the case because it was relationship between two men.
I can see that obsessive look in his eyes. I remember that look from my ex. The lies, the gaslighting. I feel terrible for Alice and her family. I wish this never happened to her. I hope this worthless waste of a life doesn't ever get out of prison.
As a cop i had a girl with a similiar story come to the office after she got beat up by her ex on the street. She had received flowers, calls, nightly visits, ... In short there were more than 100 pages of evidence. I took it seriously. The prosecution however didnt and they dismissed the case ... they sure as hell dont take these things serious enough
...
just to let you know you belong to a group that is full of creepy sexual abusers , bullies , and incompetent people not saying you are but whats that saying u lot love to say to other people you are the company you keep yeah i guess everyone is responsible for the company they keep except police.
You're a hero and thanks for being an amazing officer who cares 👏. Stalking and domestic violence aren't taken seriously enough!!!! It's serious and leads to so much violence & murder. Laws need to be overhauled because they're a joke.
These laws are not all the same on a national level. Each state has their own laws regarding domestic violence and/or stalking laws. Some states are harsher than others and some states still do next to nothing for victims, like only giving a misdemeanor for physically violent domestic violence which results in giving the victim an order of protective which only orders that the perpetrator stay 1000 ft away from the victim and the victim receive paperwork about it. That is it. Anytime the protection order is violated the victim has to call the police, who only do anything if the perp is caught red handed, if the perp is no longer there when they arrive the only thing they will do is question the perp about the call from the victim. Because of this, many victims of domestic violence don’t even bother reporting any of their attacks to the authorities and are almost always criticized by EVERYONE for it
@Anita ^^^^^This. But psycho men can vote too. It's the problem. Racists and psychos shouldn't be allowed to vote.
I think we all need to recognize that in most relationships like this, the stalker has begun stalking long before the breakup. So that by the time the breakup happens, they have already hacked into the partner’s social media, following them to and from work and school, isolated them from family/friends, etc. The fix is already in.
That's worrying and I have no doubt you are right
I agree. I was in a similar relationship (well if you call it that), the stalking started in the relationship with his control over my social life and finances, the mind games and manipulation of my family. The only way I could get away from him was to move states.
This is absolutely correct. Unfortunately this kind of controlling behavior during the relationship will be normalized by the abuser to the victim. “I trust you, it’s just I’ve been hurt before.” or “If you have nothing to hide, why do you care if I look at your emails or go through your stuff?”.
We also need to punish wight men and women who date outside of their rase. It's disgraceful.
@@pennylane3324 Absolutely it starts pretty quickly in the relationship and the stalker slowly modifies the victims behaviour and isolates them from friends and family. The only reason I got out of my situation was that, after beating me up and locking me in for five days, he couldnt get the drugs he needed because he had been cut off for beating me up. He eventually told me that I had to go and score for him and when I got out I phoned the guy I was supposed to see and his girlfriend (The real reason he had been cut off) answered and she came and picked me up and took me to my folks house. I will be forever grateful to that girl, Mandy, I believe her name was, as I truly believed I wouldnt get out of that alive. If she hadnt told her boyfriend to cut him off, I dont think I would have got out. Not everyone in the drug world are bad people, some are really good people who have just got into bad situations. I think they should name and shame these people as well as putting them on a register because it seems to me these situations nearly always end badly. Like my abuser went on to do the same abroad and ended up dead. But, it could have just as easily been his victim who died at his hands.
Just horrendous. Her sweet voice on the calls broke my heart. She was so young and so vulnerable. So let down.
I’m so glad I never dated anyone like this. What an absolutely nightmare for anyone who has had to deal with someone who behaved this way. I can’t even imagine
I find stalking to be one of the worst crimes. Mainly due to psychological impact. It's a slow and painful demise with plenty of missed opportunities to turn the course of events. There should be absolutely more stringent laws against stalking
I was stalked for *years* by my mother's psycho ex who tried to rape me at 14. Not to get into too much detail, it blighted a good deal of my life.
its definitely not cool being stalked, but worst crimes? no
@@messermesut2272 stalking tends to lead to worst crimes, so yes, i would count it to be one of the worst crimes.
@@breadeats "stalking leads to worse crimes"
sometimes yes, sometimes not.
@@messermesut2272 Done a bit of stalking lad?
"She wanted it to stop, but didn't want to get him into trouble" At this point the police should grow some balls/brains and either advise or take action. Isn't this like abusive relationship 101??
That’s bc most cops are that person….don’t wanna blow their cover
@@P9rkour90 I had a cop in my town actually got fired after stalking a girl who was in my class and pulling over guys she hung out with after they left her house and what not... he would sit down past her house while on duty and watch it
@@jhtsurvival Well done. Unfortunately if people just let this problem go the person can get worse and escalate it over time. He is better off doing a different line of work and hopefully getting his problem treated (doubtful he is, though).
It's sad, but i've seen girls drop charges and go back to abusive ex's. It's harder for the police to do anything if the victim doesn't cooperate. That's how R Kelly got off in his pee trial remember?
The guy is brown. Cops in the UK allow them to groom children because they don't want to be called racist.
I knew someone murdered by a stalker. I also remember a story about a woman murdered by her POS ex the moment he was released from prison. For all victims of stalkers everywhere, please know you have done nothing wrong. The stalker is sick and unstable. Do whatever you have to do to protect yourself, even if it means moving far away.
i wish there was like a witness protection type organization that helps people who are being stalked by dangerous people to re-locate them
And defend yourself with deadly force!
even if it means legally buying a gun and using it to protect yourself. running away isnt a great option.
Why does the victim have to run? Get a gun and stand your ground. Bury that mother fucker 6 feet deep.
@@kimmyfreak200 if only guns existed 🤦🏻♂️
Makes me sick to hear her calls to police. Stalking laws should be some of the most strict there are. Should be zero tolerance
When people call police about a stalker, they absolutely MUST take it with all seriousness and investigate immediately and properly. Don't wait because you never know when it will be too late... Too many people lose their lives because police aren't engaging enough with these issues.
"Do you want us to do anything?"
"No"
"Okay then"
But "muh victim blaming" am i right?
@@vaalalves Gotta agree with you here, they asked and she refused the help. That said I do believe that laws against stalking needs to be improved.
Also male relatives/friends in her life should try to step in and beat the shit out of the stalker. Worked like a charm with the prick that stalked my sister. Thats after trying and failing going the police route though
@@vaalalves No, you're not blaming the victim. If you don't ask for help, help won't be there for you. My son was killed, and cops did nothing. He had a poor relationship with the deputy sheriff's dept. in San Diego. He hated them, they hated him. It sucks and I don't blame either side. Bad things DO happen to good people. I wanted them to find my son's killer. They REFUSED. Jonathan Mathew Wion. 8-16-87 to 2-10-17. Rest in peace Jon-Jon. Your mamma loves you. Still.
It's hard to investigate every case when the departments are getting defunded and told to focus on painting their cruisers rainbow colors.
Also it doesn't help that 99% of those calls are nothing burgers.
If you want to scold someone scold the people who falsely file these reports out of spite or because they are crying wolf.
It's outright disgraceful how cases like this are dealt with all around the globe. Same things happen regardless of country it is in. Laws need to be made to give all the power back to the victims.
After a particularly heinous gang attack on a young woman coming home on a bus after a movie, enough outrage finally hit the streets in India.
Of the six on the bus, one was her boyfriend who was thoroughly beaten and gotten out of the way--- even the bus driver took part in the desecration.
After major protests in New Delhi and surrounding areas,
F I N A L L Y , new rape laws were on the books.
India is a patriarchal society however, and I doubt procedures have changed "that much" .
@@sharonwolfe5210 who cares
@@michelleharms4895 Well? I found that to be interesting as I had no idea about it. And I’m glad new laws were put in place. Literally just shut up
@@kymmymorgan1551 Oh? Literally.
@@michelleharms4895 Yes? Literally.
It’s such a shame how women facing abuse and stalking are so unprotected by authorities. They failed her
To be fair no one facing abuse and stalking are protected by authorities.
She refused the help they offered, though. They cannot press charges unless she wanted to.
what did her family do to help her?
Agreed
@@Oneiriel *if you're white. Plenty of black folks who have stood their ground that are in jail for doing so. One case in particular was similar to this...a woman who had contacted police MANY times about an abusive ex, who at one point tried to kill her...she shot him under "stand your ground" rules, and she was tossed in jail for murder.
Wow this one is really sad. She seemed like such a sweet person. She did everything she was supposed to do, but the police failed her. Rest in peace Alice
Of course the police failed her. It seems that other countries have the same issues with police and the courts who are not actively protecting these people. Laws need to change ASAP!!!
alice‘s dad’s words made me cry. the parents standing in for victims of stalking now… they are admirable. kind people to look up to.
Truly admirable. The kinds of people that are strong enough to not only *survive* a tragedy like this but when they do come out the other side, they take their pain and suffering and transform it into action for good- creating something for the world that will make it a better place and hopefully save others in the future from experiencing a similar tragedy. ♥️ I think that if you strive to be strong and courageous like these people you're doing the right thing in life.
When he said Alice said “ I don’t want to die. I want to live,” to him. Killed my soul. That is so sad because she was so young. You really never know when it’s your last day. R.I.H Alice
I really believe when he was telling what she said… was probably true. 😭
My heart really goes out to Alice. I worked a lot of years for divorce attorneys and I learned one inflexible truth: A piece of paper never stopped anyone from stalking, harming or killing another person. Restraining orders or Pins are useless of the restrained party really wants to get at you.
The old fashioned modes of protection-fathers, family, friends, etc. have been abrogated to goverment bureaucracies. Witness how they work.
True, but they help the DA's office with the future court case that results from violating it with awful consequences.
I was stalked years ago and I remember being scoffed at by the police when I physically went to the station. They all but laughed at me and I am sure they laughed after I had left. Anyway, this was around 1989 or so. Hoping things are changing for the better.
Edited to add: Some years later I heard through the grapevine that my stalker had died. I immediately felt this huge relief of a stress that I wasn't fully aware the weight of.
I know some people say that we should never be glad for a person to die, but I'm glad your stalker died. these people don't change. they believe the object of their obsession is just that, an object and that they are entitled to them, their attention and time. I'm so glad you got out ok and hope you're living your best life
You should have been informed of your stalker's death.
My lecturer organised a talk with Alice’s dad. He explained the whole situation about what happened with Alice. It was very hard to hear about what had happened to her and the stresses she had to go through. RIP Alice ❤️
Women having terrible taste in men, what else is new.
So you’re one of those “nice guys” not like those other baaaad horrible guys, eh? 🍿🍿
@@BalboaBaggins tf is wrong with u
@@checynhadi2815 why gaslight him? He posted a nice and heartfelt message. Leave it at that.
I wasn’t expecting to hear her call to the police. This breaks my heart. She was so young and naive and still tried so hard to make it known that something was wrong. Stalking should be taken so much more seriously, I’m going through something similar and the police have said something physical has to actually happen before I can get a restraining order. I wonder if we can start a petition to nationally (ideally globally) get attention to this.
Where are you? I’m a medically retired cop and that’s not necessarily true-has there been any threatening communication and electronic evidence you can save? A judge may see that differently than what you’ve been told so far.
In my state someone can get an automatic temporary restraining order as part of a proceeding. No need to prove anything, just automatically issued when asked for, for either party. So like if you sued the guy for civil harassment, you could then get a restraining order issued automatically. Its temporary, but can last up to a year. And then you can get another one. In my state that is. So there might be other ways to get one. Might be worth talking to a lawyer, cops don't go to law school so don't know as much as a lawyer does about what all your options might be, and what knowledge cops do have tend to be hyper focused on criminal law so civil law options are something they are often not even aware of.
Something I've recommended to women in this situation that sometimes has helped is to do the following. Get a photo of the stalker. Make some copies. Go around to your neighbors, like all the people on your block, or in your building if its an apartment situation, and introduce yourself, explain your situation, and give them a copy of the photo, and explain that this person has no legit reason to be anywhere on your block and that if they see him then he is up to no good and they should immediately call the police. Even if the police won't arrest him, the mere fact they show up every time he tries to linger, and all the dirty looks from neighbors who recognize him, might reduce his bravery. Not foolproof, and not absolute protection, and limited to the area you live, won't help you at the grocery store or whatever, but every little layer of protection can help and they can add up and its especially nice if you can make your home feel a little more safe. And side benefit, you can meet more of your neighbors and get some community feel going on your block. There might also already be a neighborhood watch, some neighborhoods set those up and work w/police, so if so, contacting them would be great, some neighborhood watches even have patrols. Give them copies of those photos. If there isn't, consider setting one up yourself, police will often help w/setting up and supporting a neighborhood watch too even providing resources. Depending on where you live of course.
Another thing is to have friends check up on you, let htem know if you don't answer w/in X amount of time u want them to call police to do a welfare check on you.
Another thing is to look in to women's shelters in your area. So like if you're just feeling like he's around and don't feel safe at home, you'll already know about this place you can retreat to to spend the night at, you'll already know where it is, how to get there, what times their doors are open, etc.... Won't having to be looking up this info in a panic during a situation because you'll already have looked it all up in advance.
@@SmegInThePants I do love your advice, but I wanted to ask: if the person were to find out that you'd distributed pictures and information on them throughout your community, could you then be accused of harassment or something similar? Obviously I don't personally believe that that's what it is, but as I think we can all agree, the law is flawed, and unfortunately trying to defend ourselves can lead us astray by accident. What do you reckon -- would the person have a case?
I’m going through the same thing… have been for almost a year, we’ve had him throw a brick through our window, has tried breaking in about 20 times. Still nothing has been done…. It doesn’t matter how many times he’s sends something via text email letter saying he’s going to rape and murder my girlfriend and then kill my 8 month old. Nothing happens, I caught the cops saying that they think I’m doing this or my girlfriend is….. I seriously don’t know what to do anymore
When you start it I'm signing asap
Hey Mike! I’m a stay at home mother of twins… I have very little to look forward to currently. I am suffering from postpartum depression as well as being a recovering heroin addict (2 years clean don’t worry!) But when you post, it gives me so much happiness! I get up and clean and shower listening to you. You have seriously helped me more than you know!
EDIT: OH MY GOSH! You guys have me screaming from happiness in these comments! I feel so overwhelmed with joy. Thank you so much for your love and kind words. Wow.
Homeless 50yr old recovering cripple addict here
Bless your heart! Keep doing well. You have a lot on your plate now but you are doing great. Mike is so awesome.
I am also a stay at home mom who enjoys Mikes videos…hang in there, mama!
I too am a former junkie.
Weird how we all seem to like true crime stuff isn’t it.
Keep at it, your doing good! c
Congrats on the 2 years! Post acute withdrawal is no joke, took me about a year without alcohol to feel close to normal again. And that didnt include the wild ride of pregnancy and hormones and being the vehicle for not one, but two lives! You got this 💜😊
She sounded like such a sweet person. How sad that no one actually cared enough to help her.
Your edit of the notifications sounds and the rainy window was simple but super effective. Having an obsessive ex and constantly hearing those notifications was daunting and terrifying.
I agree!!
Crazy ex party in the comment section right here right here 🎉 😂
It nearly caused an accident because someone did not know what the hell the sound was and thought it was from car.
Right??? His edits are bomb
From personal experience I know this type of behavior is never taken seriously until it's too late. My ex violated the restraining order I had against him and all the judge did was say not to do it again. The justice system is fxcked
A friend of mine went through this with a guy she dated for a short time and basically the police told her they can’t do anything until he hurts her .But when a male friend intervened and roughed him up he went to jail for assault , very f*cked up system!
This is why I see them forcing ppl into killing their stalkers 🤷♀️ the psychological trauma tho to be on guard.
@Jade Ravenwolf The _only_ thing an RO is useful for is investigating the homicide of the person supposedly protected by the restraining order, and prosecuting the person who was being "restrained".
Sorry to hear this appended to you and hope you are getting help
women should have guns, loaded, locked and ready to rock - Ladies, you're only equal with the equalizer
All I can think is, "Oh, Alice, you did everything you were supposed to do."
How could they have failed her like this? She could have been protected, she called and asked them to help her. The stalking WAS identified while she was alive, it was mentioned in the fucking 911 call! Now, she is dead, and Harry isn't, and the police - What reparations have they made? It breaks my heart. Rest in peace, Miss Alice.
She didn't want him arrested remember? 17:25 in the video.
Easy answer. So many woman abuse the system so there's no way to be 100 %safe
It’s unfortunate she had to live in a country where more protection often is given to attackers than victims and the government takes every possibility to defend oneself away.
@@shauncasey8295 I think that should be a case where authorities can overthrow a citizens request and arrest him anyway. Especially considering previous charges on the guy
@@autumnhoogsteen8494 I think I’ve heard of police still pressing charges even if the victim doesn’t want to. I’m pretty sure the case I am remembering was a DV case. It probably has to be a specific situation or maybe it doesn’t. I don’t know law but seems like a lot of law enforcement doesn’t either.
This is heartbreaking. I experienced something similar, and (as he had been violent to me before), he served time. IVO's don't stop these people, and a part of me is still in fear.
Poor Alice: She was stalked, and he WANTED her to know he was doing it. The flowers, the door/window knocks, the barrage of calls/texts/emails.
Police are getting better with it, but ANY behaviour like this needs to be taken seriously as people literally end up dead.
I had a stalker for 2 years. He also hacked into my accounts and would constantly message me. I went to the police and they told me. They couldn't do anything about it until he physically harmed me...What a joke!
Disgusting
@Mark Stewger- so therefore his stalking is her fault?!?! You're sick
@Mark Stewger Sorry do you know their password??? No, you don't. This is extremely jerky + unearned aggression from you. You aren't being a good person here.
A very similar situation happened to me, and at the time I was under 16! You think they would take it more seriously because I was a minor, no. I still have issues today because of the stalker I dealt with and I’m 27 now. It makes me so angry and sad they refuse to do more.
My point exactly. The cops don't protect people. They only enforce laws. What they told you is that only when a crime is comitted (the stalker harming you) would they take action. Its very sad but unfortunately true. You cannot depend on the police for protection.
I wish we could charge authorities in cases like these. They happen so often due to pure negligence and it’s sad and ridiculous
Well we can't because so many people (mostly women) manipulate the authorities when they are spiteful, these cases are really common is difficult for the police to determine which one to spend their resources on.
@@verginone but it’s different if there’s evidence.
@@verginone is this a joke? You sound about as incompetent and uncaring as this police department.
@@LMA_PLS what's the evidence in this case? It sounds like she didn't want to get him arrested and never presented anything more than " he dropped off chocolates, went on my Facebook, and tinder, and won't stop messaging me" ... the only wrong doing by police imo is not explaining what a PIN was properly? If she isn't telling them the extent of the situation how can you blame them. You want police running around arresting every EX that won't stop messaging their Ex?
@@jhtsurvival What's the evidence? Only a prior restraining order and previous victim, all the messages and voice mails, the fact he was repeatedly told to stop contacting her but continued, leaving chocolates and flowers, disturbing messages about murder, threats of revenge porn, everyone who witnessed his behaviour, his commanding officer...the list goes on. UK police do not need victims of domestic violence to choose to press charges, asking her permission goes against guidelines.
As to "You want police running around arresting every EX that won't stop messaging their Ex?" YES. When an ex is harrassing someone to the point of them going to the police, is then officially warned to stop but chooses to continue, is reported again, yes...arrest them! It is criminal behaviour and they can be convicted under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, Crime and Disorder Act 1998, and Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004.
I'm not sure if you are just terribly ignorant in regard to coercive control, stalking, and domestic violence, or whether you are actually intending to defend this kind of criminal behaviour by blaming the victim.
This infuriates me. RIP Alice, you deserved better
She sounded so naive, she had faith in the authorities and it cost her life.
@@RealmsOfThePossible sadly yes :(
never trust the authorities .. (police justice system etc.)
but also never go against them .. they can cause you much more harm than they will fix things for you..
@TMCS it got me also. I shit myself because I thought there was someone at my door 🙄 god love her she didn't deserve to leave this earth the way she did. May she rest in peace 🙏. Take care & be safe.
@Pol Pot 2024 your opinion is invalid the instance you make this about immigrants. Stop trying to make everything racist, you are triggered because you know that you're incompetent compared to them and nothing but a bigot.. Please re-evaluate your thinking because you need help. And yes it's part his parents fault for spoiling him but that doesn't remove the fact that the authorities failed the woman despite her repeated complaints also knowing the man's past which was on record.
@@Adhgnis unfortunately there's a few racists on here. First time I've ever seen it on this channel, such a shame.
Can only imagine how frightened she was, feeling alone like nobody can stop that scumbag. It's sad how little effort is done in stalking cases.
Rest in peace, condolences to her family 🌷
Hearing about the lack of police intervention in stories like this always reminds me of that Simpsons episode when Marge wants help from the police to stop a woman she thinks is trying to kill her. She asks "do I have to be dead before you'll help me?" And Chief Wiggum goes "Well, not dead, dying."
What episode is that?
@@DresdenShuffle 11x21 - It's a Mad Mad Marge
Another good quote from it:
"I thought you said the law was powerless"
"Powerless to help you not punish you"
That CCTV footage of her last movements is heart breaking. She trusted that she was safe but instead the police had let her down.
The second half, unstated, of “I’m not intending to kill you” is the most chilling part.
I’m not intending to, but…
It’s as blatant a red flag as his saying in the police interview that he just wanted “his answers” from her. Not her answers. His.
No boundaries on this guy. None.
What an insight you've given, so true
Exactly. It's a subtextual threat - ''I'm not *intending* to kill you, BUT, if i do, it'll be your fault.''
Why would you even suggest not thinking about killing someone unless at the very LEAST it had crossed your mind? I mean as veiled threats go, that wasn't even particularly subtle. Chilling
This happens way too often. When my ex was stalking me for leaving him, I nearly ended up the same way. The police told me their hands were tied until he actually DID something to me!
Yea I had the same said to me ...3 of my friends had taken action (literally just cornered him in my room and told him to leave me tf alone) after they found out my ex came to my house while I was babysitting and had a knife in his pocket and gun in his car.... He made a report but left those details out and the cops came threatening me with jail time. It's sad scary and sooo upsetting
That last "Thanks, bye..." just breaks my heart, she knew they wouldn't protect her, so sad :(
Same, I actually started crying when I heard her say those last words to the police... I just wish I could travel back in time and save her. :(
She felt powerless....they had more than enough evidence to at least bring him in for questioning...I don't know..something...
Blame her worthless emasculated dad. He as a man and father figure should have done everything in his power to protect her. Even mom has a role as they both could have had Alice move in with them. Sickening.... easy to blame the system when the parents have a piece of the blame. I'm darn sure Alice told her parents about Harry the psycho maniac.
Some of the sentences these criminals get leave me absolutely baffled. How do you stalk and kill someone and then get at least 22 years in jail? It’s not like the victim is gonna be dead for at least 22 years. I’m not advocating for an eye for an eye here, he’s chances of getting out of jail should be zero. Lock him up and throw away the key.
I'm thinking death penalty. Try to put yourself in the victims shoes. Horrible end to her life. And for what. I dont think he should have the pleasure of breathing another breathe
@@oggamecat7586 I agree, I’m just saying the least he should get is life without parole and England might not have the death penalty
EXACTLY. That’s the shitty “justice” system here in Britain.
@@FallenAngel9979 it’s not much better in the USA.
22 years is 1 year shorter than her age when she died 😞 Totally unjust. He's not even getting put away for the number age she was when he took her life.
This case has pissed me off so much. They basically told her to F off when she tried to tell them she feared for her safety. Her death is 100% the police's fault. They did absolutely nothing to protect her.
Alices death is 100% her pos stalkers fault. No one elses.
@Moby DIll I totally agree
I don't know what is more terrifying, being murdered or being stalked. My friend was stalked by her ex boyfriend for five years and when he offed himself. She finally felt freed. She told me, there were days when she thought it would be better to be dead than alive. And him dying, finally gave her room to live.
Like Alice, my friend tried calling the police and they did nothing. My friend was just fortunate to live with her parents at the time and had good security. But victims of stalking shouldn't have to suffer because of that. There should be better stalking laws.
I’m sorry to say this but I am happy she has been able to feel free based on his actions to himself. Stalking literally feels like you are drowning but not passing out or dying.
Blessings to you and your friend!
Id say being actually murdered is far worse wouldnt you think.
I had a guy I dated very briefly stalk me for like 5 months and it was TERRIFYING. He would show up to my college campus and stand by my classroom door, text me when I would be out saying "I know you're at xyz party, I have friends there to beat you up" and just scare me for months. It only stopped when I contacted a male cousin and asked him to handle it- never heard from the guy again
Something similar happened to my sister. Her ex boyfriend went off the deep end and threatened my family, my boyfriend (who was his best friend at the time) and was on hard drugs. When he died we were relieved, still am to this day. Never had to worry about him getting his revenge or doing something to my sister. I hated him. I'm really glad your sister is ok.
@TMCS what?
The frequency and quality of these video that Mike puts out is outstanding. Thanks Mike. You've earned every cent you've made from this channel, and that can't be said about most successful youtubers.
i agree so hard with this statement
i just hope he knows he's so much appreciated
Most consistent content I’ve ever seen. It’s amazing.
Could you just watch the damn video and stop talking shit
For sure. I just hope he takes care of himself too, and knows that we will wait for his great content if he ever needs to take a break for his own sanity. It can get dark covering true crime.
The fact that she said “ guys like you end up killing their gf, but I want to live” breaks my heart! May she RIP 👼
I didn’t believe one word he said, honestly.
She should never have dated him in the first place. She is white European, he is Indian. By dating him she stabbed her own rase in the back and contributed to our decline...
@@M1985- me neither it kinda reminds me of that interview Yolanda did about her murdering Selena Q omg the fake words she put in Selena’s mouth & the story she came up with knowing damn well Selena ain’t say all that before she murdered her & a lot of the stuff yolanda said happened never happened 😭 it’s totally the same in both situations they delusional asf & obsessed narcissistic 🤡
"Guys like you"......think about who she meant....
@@johnsain narcissistic psycho controlling misogynistic men 😭
This is far too common. Was almost me. I got really lucky the last time but the cops weren’t much help until it escalated severely.
Trying to get help as a stalking victim is absolutely crazy. I've had male and female friends who were stalked, one of the incidents I was there for personally. Seeing how the police decided to handle it was like a bad joke. The stalker was literally sending threatening messages while the police where IN the house yet they did nothing to help at all. Their stellar advice was "lol just block them" despite this being a months long situation and the person going through social media accounts like you'd go through cups of water.
My male friend who went through being stalked was treated much the same except they liked to sprinkle in crap about how could he be scared of his abuser because she was female and smaller than him as if that's some sort of excuse. It changed the guy and to this day he's a shell of his former self. Stalking is no joke and it definitely needs to be dealt with more severely from what I've witnessed. Maybe if it was poor Alice would still be alive today. What a complete and total waste.
I was intending to comment , "Imagine being a male trying to report a stalker and getting them to help put an end to it." Then I got to the second part and was surprised, actually, to read about a situation similar to mine. The worst part is officers openly saying mocking shit and humiliating you. I'm not a defenseless man by any means. I also didn't want to beat the shit out of a woman or possibly wound her critically or fatally. It was that bad she had devised several plans to capture and torture me infact it all came to an end when she attempted one. Luckily I had developed a great sense of situational awareness and paranoia made me extraordinarily observant. She had a knife, was hiding and came at me from behind. I threw her to the ground and tossed the knife....called the cops.
The scariest thing I had ever seen in my life was the way she changed from determined killer to helpless damsel in one instant. Crying and begging me to stop hurting her. If the cops took any longer I was in trouble of being jumped on by a group of guys that bought it lol then the cops bought it too, put me in the handcuffs and carried me away. Unbelievable...until they had a look at reports I had made and the most damning was video of the attack.
Scary that without that video I would've been the one in trouble. Cheers!
@@Scarethelocals Jesus I'm sorry you went through that mate, I hope really you're doing better these days. Abusers LOVE the two face trick and it can shock you to your core the first time you ever see it. What people don't seem to grasp - or don't want to grasp - is that aye, you're average guy could fight back and pummel his abuser into paste. However they do that and their life is over, even one slap back in defence can get you carted off to prison.
Male & Female stalking victims both get the crap end of the stick but I just wish people would learn more about male victims. My mate had bruises and shallow stab wounds all over him. Instead of people saying: "Holy crap are you ok? Do you need help?" all he got was "He must have made her angry lol" like being abused is funny. I don't blame him for hiding it so long.
@scare. That is horrifying. I'm truly sorry that happened to you. I hope you no longer have trouble with her. I'm glad you reported it, for future reference at least, if she tries to do anything like that again. Stalking, abuse, etc, should never be accepted by either party in a relationship. Love is not supposed to hurt. Wish you the best in your future relationship, please don't let it stop you from falling in love again. As someone who has been in your position before, there is love and good people out there, all the best ❤
Im a 6" males i was stalked by my 5'2 ex gf. it was stressful and at times terrifying. Had to park in a different street keep pets inside and redirect mail. 3 month relationship 9 months of being stalked. Everyone i told treated me as joke. It only stopped when her friends and family got involved and realized i wasnt the bad guy.
@@bourbonslurpee Yeah , people want to make it a joke or discount the danger if it happens to a dude. What they don't understand is that it's a nightmare situation because you're already dealing with a broken person that is very dangerous. Then we're dealing with the fact that most people aren't going to believe you from the jump and somehow make you the bad guy. In my case I had a lunatic that could flip from bloodthirsty and dangerous to sniveling,crying,scared little girl that is helpless and being "emotionally abused". She was so manipulative that she literally had the script flipped on me. She convinced everyone that I was the dangerous stalker and she was the victim. Oh and the last tidbit is not being sure about defending yourself against a woman if she does do something crazy, especially in my sitch because she was so damn manipulative and convincing. Yeah guys get it all ...the abuse,both physically and emotionally, being stalked and followed, not taken seriously, people think we're the actual threat, and the fear of defending yourself.
Then it never goes away. People always want to make a joke out of it or believing we were never in any actual danger. I would have loved to have defended myself from the get go and put the fear of death in her but that could have had so many possible outcomes, mostly bad ones. I got lucky and found a cop that could see I was tortured by her and myself because of the head games and I didn't want to hurt my son's mother, I didn't want to blow her life up...but I also couldn't have her putting he and I in continuous danger. The officer did what was right ,which never happens to me, and tried to set her down the right path but... she must've gotten lost on it or fallen asleep along the way because we haven't heard anything in years.good luck 🤞
I've never understood stalking behaviour. If someone doesn't want you in their life anymore, stalking them isn't going to change their mind. If anything, it only makes their resolve to stay away stronger. It's high time the police started taking stalking seriously. Too many people have lost their lives because some creeps can't accept that it's over. RIP Alice!
You're not supposed to (understand it).
There is something wrong with their brains and there's no one stopping them
There’s nothing rational about stalking. It’s insane behavior
Its the need for control. Even those not ex's will stalk- they "have" to have the upper hand of knowing what the other person is doing. Its psycopathy at its finest.
Amusing that you think the police "care". They are handcuffed (pun intended) by judicial restrictions, which apparently offer little real protection from stalkers. Orders of protection are a joke, like all statism, it relies on compliance to law by sociopaths.
Yeah, nothing says I love you more than creeping up in the middle of the night, and constantly ringing the doorbell and leaving chocolates and flowers. Terrifying! It's so sad to hear Alice's voice as she asked the police for advice and help and knowing they failed her. RIP.
It's a terrible thing to watch a friend's spirit get crushed.
This is a case I've heard discussed multiple times and every time I listen to the details there's an overwhelming feeling of frustration. It's almost like every time I hear it I hope maybe Alice will be okay at the end and she will be kept safe. Poor girl did what she could to prevent this outcome and it didn't work and that is incredibly heartbreaking.
It's incredibly heartbreaking that Alice did everything right in her power and the legal system failed her!!!! She did what she could to report the stalking and it wasn't followed up on or take seriously enough.
@@arynasabalenka3173 whoa there girly girl. I take inference to what you've written. You aren't by any chance the offspring or in the lineage of either the white suprematists/nazi or maybe the low life group the kkk. Your diatribe reeks of bigotry and racism.
@@anitaknight3915 the problem is that I don't think there was anything that could have been done. Even if the police take it seriously they can't keep him in jail indefinitely for stalking. Even if he gets a restraining order against him he would have still broken it.
@Aryna Sablenka
I see no one can reply back to you now and comes up with the user name
@UCitmOAP5DgDvU16YuzjMBLw
Actually I should've written 'whoa there whity' and ended with you're a piece of brown stuff. Stop acting superior by using big words as you look like a silly boo with the spelling errors. As I hear quite often these days, I'd like to say to you to 'HAVE THE DAY YOU DESERVE'.
(Ensuring I don't get called out for using bad language I decided to use vanilla wordings.)
@@chrishepburn1503 yeah it's an unfortunate thing and nothing usually detracts an unstable obsessive person from stating away . However, that officer didn't follow up properly after her second report to them after the pin.
This was his story: "Yes, I did leave me barracks and drive 2 and a half hours, across the Scottish/English border to Newcastle and arrived, unannounced, at Alice's house. There I confronted her and had a 5 minute heated debate where she accused me of stalking her and she said how she was scared I would harm her and potentially take her life. I said I would not and I left and drove the 2 and a half hours all the way back to Edinburgh. Incredibly, unbeknownst to me, just 5 min after leaving Alice alone, totally unharmed and absolutely, definitely NOT bleeding in any way, somebody else snuck into her home and murdered her! I mean, coincidence or what!"
Yeeeeeaaaahh, that's a proper coinky-dink, innit. Of all the times for someone to sneak into someone else's house and attack them it just happens to be 5min after their 1 and only stalker had driven out of his way to confront her and have a discussion about harming her. So weird that.
Best comment.
He is a text book predator.
It rarely pays to be a sweet girl. Loud and outspoken females often end up alone.
But they rarely end up like this.
Poor sweet soul 💙🖤🦋🖤💙
It’s the old “ I didn’t kill her. Alice’s throat just did that. “
RIDICULOUS STATEMENT HE MADE!!
Super unlucky guy by the sounds of it. Hope he’s ok.
@Alex F Yep it's confirmed. I was wondering if you had any similarities due to your previous comments on other posts. You have thought waaaaaaay too much about how to off someone and get away with it.
I listened to a podcast where more of the flat mate’s 999 call was played. It was absolutely horrendous and hearing some of it again now has brought tears to my eyes. I can’t imagine how traumatic that must have been for the flat mate. I hope she is healing well from it.
I remember this well, but I had never known the details or heard the phone recordings before. It made my blood run cold - I know, like me, there are people watching who have experienced a "Harry". The sobbing, desperate, even sweet voicemails, the veiled threat "I have photos of you but I would never send them because I love you so much" the gifts used like a shiny bauble at the end of a fishing lure. You are not alone and you are not a bad person for leaving, you can't help them and you need to save yourself. It doesn't make you selfish, it keeps you alive.
I've noticed whenever someone reports something about an ex or a stalker not much is done until the last minute. The authorities say they will improve and they never do.
Have you ever noticed there is an entire GENRE of "romantic" movies the plot of which involves the protagonist going to ridiculous lengths, deceptive, coercive, manipulative behaviors, to GET the girl he wants? And they always show that if Dude just hangs in there and KEEPS BATTERING AGAINST HER NO, she will eventually realize how great he is and fall into his arms? Our culture views warfare against women's consent as a positively adorable trait in men.
@@judithbradford9130 yeah…. It’s usually the weird lonely guys who go through a transformation 😂
@@judithbradford9130 my kid's mom loves them types of movies and now she's with a possessive and controlling boyfriend and actually thinks I'm somehow wrong for not "fighting for her"
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees who scary that type of thinking is
@@judithbradford9130 I’m glad someone called this out….”nice guy” syndrome. So many weak dudes in this generation who have been brainwashed by those exact movies to be nice to women ONLY because they think it gives them a better chance, not because they’re actually good people. So when women tell them no because they see right through their facade these are normally the simps who end up buying them all these gifts and flowers or in worst cases, stalking them and keeping up with their every move instead of having the self respect to accept their decision and move on smh
@@NewscasterNews4 dont blame the movies. Movies, games etc. Are not to blame for anyones behaviour or crimes.
As soon I as hear Mike's voice or That Chapter intro, I become all smiles. Seems a bit inappropriate, but I know he'll not only share the victims story but point out the learnings. Always looking forward to the next That Chapter!!!
I totally get you. I live for his outros and little quips 🥰🤗
It’s ok, I totally get you. 😉
I need to hear Mike's voice on Tuesday and Fridays . He himself is an addiction 😉😊
Obsession is dangerous
Ikr
Listening to the police calls is so frustrating. She sounds like she was such a sweet person.
Yeahhhhhhhhh boyyyy
It's called manipulation.
This happens a lot which is sad. But what’s really sickening is the fact that this was completely preventable.
"We'll do better from now on."
Honestly getting pretty tired of hearing this exact excuse. Why not take cases like this seriously out of principle? Everyone knows how dangerous people like this guy are, and the authorities had all the evidence they needed to treat him as such... yet here we are again, with another murder that could have been prevented.
Never outsource your own safety. What an infuriating case.
Never wait for the 'system' to gather encounters, phone calls and so on in order to get restraining orders and then, after months or years of being hunted, finally arrest the person for stalking. learn what you can do to protect yourself.
@@Tsiri09 you do realize even doing all that won't even get a solid conviction... Assault/rape gets let go far too many times the 'system' needs changed... Stalking/rape laws need to be put into place ...People are already doing what they can to survive... Yes let's also do the polices job on top of it all... Always protect yourself that we can agree on ...but when are we going to push for better police force? Why do these fuckers get paid if we aren't supposed to call them lol
@@Tsiri09 It takes more than one person to maintain 24 hour security
Good idea, mate, as long as you multiply the police force by ten, I mean at least ten... Our society is sick and gravely so, our jails and prisons overpopulated, the police overwhelmed... I don't frankly see how they can handle every single call seriously. Neither do I see how our society can change for the better...
Being stalked by someone with murderous intent is high key one of my worst fears especially because meeting them you never really know that’s who they’ll turn out to be.
Like swimming and being followed by a shark but you think it’s a dolphin
same here. i think about it all the time.
Same. I literally avoid meeting new people because of it.
it is so scary how it only takes talking to the wrong person and then your life is ruined... so horrible. stalking is such a scary crime and a lot of times it isnt taken seriously
I FREAKING LOVE YOU BUDDY!!! The comedy you toss at a case is the best! Keep up the great work!
The indifference of the officer who took Alice's call when she called about the PIN. How many such calls do you get in a day, to not even ask: ARE YOU SAFE? This could have been prevented.
Well she didn't exactly express much concern
Way too many is the sad truth. But no it couldn't have. She said she didn't want further action. So there was no further action. Simple as, off to the next of 1000's calls for the day. That's the state of the government for ya.
Women having terrible taste in men, what else is new.
@@TheMrsW1z So sad :(
@@jhtsurvival she's British, we're polite to the end...
I cannot believe the police did nothing after the "I'm not gonna kill you" message. Unbelievable.
They can't put an army of guards around every person's house who's stalked.
Balboa Baggins ...who said that's what they should have done? All they needed to do was arrest Dhillon 🙄
I'm sure that's what they wanted to do. The laws need to be changed imo to allow police to arrest people who are obviously stalking.
Especially if person getting stalked has proof
well he said not...
Well she liked bad boys, how much badder can you get than a murderer?
Stalking is a serious problem. Thanks for bringing more awareness to it. Poor Alice 🥺
So is immigration from third world countries but you won't talk about that, eh?
Thanks!
Thank you for being you and for doing all these videos for us. For being so kind and generous with the victims and telling their story and giving them the spotlight they deserve. You have saved me in more ways than one, so thank you I know it’s not much but I just wanted to show my gratitude to you. God bless you and keep on doing what you do
I love your heart so much, Mike.
Definitely shines thru hugely in this one.
Your anger, your outrage for Alice make me glad men like you DO exist.
Love ya, Mike.
Thank you, again, for sharing your heart and your talent with us.
Hoping you take time to rest and relax and watch some light-hearted stuff, too.
💖 Julia
He said the perp was a cunt, wow what a hero
Chill Julia
❤
I had a peeping Tom that was stalking me in Miami Beach. Whenever he saw me he would expose himself. I phoned the police. Two detectives came. They wanted to see him do it. I sat on my balcony reading a book while the detectives were hiding . It started to rain. I went in the house and the detectives called me and told me to stay inside while they arrested him. And he had a newborn baby with his wife! It's guys like him that turn into killers.
R.I.P. sweet lady
I said yeahhh boyyyyyyyyy
Yes, it is. Some people think men who flash are just amusing weirdos but it’s been proved time and time again flashers often go on to commit far more serious crimes. The Police officer here in the UK who kidnapped raped and murdered a lady quite recently is currently up on charges of flashing he committed in the weeks leading up to Sarah’s murder 😞 extremely disturbing people. That must have been concerning for you, I’m glad the police took your complaint seriously.
What a sick freak!!
I told you I was sorry, Can we just leave the past in the past.? I didn't expose myself, it was hot out that evening..
Did the detectives catch him in the act?
The sad thing is I and probably a lot of other women and men know exactly how Alice felt when that phone went off again and again it’s terrifying! Poor girl is should never have happened to her. A total waste of a life and her poor friend that found her 😢 I hope she has managed to heal from it. 💖
Just block them. Simple.
@@SunShinyDaysPlease No, it's actually NOT that simple. I can tell you're a guy and that you've never had to deal with an obsessed dude before. 🙄
@@SunShinyDaysPlease He hacked into her phone and accounts. Blocking wouldn’t have worked.
Your “I love you” at the end is so sincere, thank you, you’re lovely 🥰
I'm a guy and was stalked, still makes me feel uncomfortable. Can't imagine how it makes a lady feel.
It's unacceptable no matter who's doing it. I'm sorry that happened to you & I hope you're now safe & living a peaceful good life.
The same I would think 🤔Hope you are OK now.
It creates a level of paranoia and physical illness within your own skin that most people cannot imagine. You wouldn’t wish it on your worst enemy. It needs to be taken as seriously as investigating assault, because that’s exactly what it is. Sending all the love💗
I've been in a similar situation, I'm afraid to say. As a man.
It is very unsettling and you almost feel too pathetic to tell anyone, like it's embarrassing for you. You are also left feeling very on edge, not sure what the future holds and frankly not really sure what to do.
@@halfbakedproductions7887 imagine a man telling the police a women is stalking him, you will be the laughing stock of the whole police force.