"Another thing people seem to forget is that in the 80s people ... wrote melodies and chord structures". Espen, you're my hero :-) You just made a lot of folks on /r/synthesizers have an anxiety attack.
@@wonderwheel80s I think the comment is just a light-hearted joke about Synthwave. Many of those who make synthwave music probably weren't born until the '90s or '00s but think that artificial neon skylines and horizons were integral to the '80s style. (The 80s in reality had a multitude of styles.) This 'outrun' aesthetic supposedly gets its name from the arcade game Outrun. I played that back in the 80s and don't remember any magenta neon.
@@relicthominin9864 Yeah just a bit of fun, a throwaway comment. I actually applied nearly every principle Espen mentions when I recreated Axel F last year. No limiting, use of drum machines, getting that 'tape' sound, etc. ua-cam.com/video/ocdS7AALaFQ/v-deo.html
@@relicthominin9864 I agree with you, (I was there too back then!), anyway the pioneers of synthwave (which was born at the end of the 00s) are actually xennials like me. We were children (not teens) during the 80s, and that aesthetic Is a romanticization of our childhood Memories of the 80s.
@relicthominin9864 The aesthetic I remember most vividly from the 80s was the Mephis Style. We had that on wall paper, on plates, sheets and comforters, bus seats, movie theaters... it was everywhere!
Before I was fortunate enough to be one of the very first few people in the UK to acquire an MPC60 in April 1988, my only way of sequencing was using the drum machine to program patterns of midi notes for my only two synths (Juno106 and DX100). The first drum machine was TR505, and then I added Kawai R100 and Yamaha RX5. Multitrack recording was on a Yamaha 4-track. I had a turntable to play records and sample music. My first samplers were two Casio Sk1’s. Trust me, there was a lot of manual syncing, punching in/out, bouncing, and music performance . The only,sequenced parts were drums (drum machines) and synth-bass (using the drum machines). I had no effects whatsoever. The limitations bred wonderful creative results with fat/gritty sounds and many huge grins on my face.
I think one of these is a general rule: For the love of all that is good, don't use autotune! Nothing has sucked the soul out of vocals like the use of autotune.
And It's not even that cumbersome with todays DAW's to manually fix small problem areas with in case of Cubase using vari audio. pretty sure most DAW's and also the different vocal plugins offer a a manual mode so you can fix small problems while preserving the natural pitch drift and voice vibrato without smashing the whole track with an "auto" fix. It's totally ok to use auto tune or whatever plugin you prefere for special effects if it fits your idea of the music, but I hate to watch tv shows and stuff where the engineers run an "auto" setting to all contestants or whatever kind of show it is just to make the overall sound "pleasant" to listen to.
It took me a while to associate the colour of your T-shirt to the Jupiter-8 casually placed in the background. In fact, it took me a while to notice the Jupiter-8.
Outstanding tips. One more: dont forget that super atmospheric sounding bridge part with the bass drum going boom boom boom... [big white snare] baaaanng and loop -- and we're in for the ultimate voyage through the music!
Good stuff. Older guy who was there. Don't forget about REAL drummers too. (Aside from overdubbing a few things on top of a machine). Yes, drum machines were big. But lots of bands/tunes had real drummers. Gary Numan, Devo, Talking Heads, B52s, Simple Minds, The Cure, Culture Club, Wang Chung, Oingo Bongo, Duran Duran, and many more had real drummers. Using a hybrid kit to incorporate some Simmons drums or triggering a few samples may also help. :)
Anything post 2000 is off my radar. the 60s and 70s were fantastic and I was a teen through the 80s. The 80s were fabulous. Just found this channel and it's very cool. 😀
Great video, Espen! I think I would add to the list something about how they used the stereo field back then, and how different sounds on opposite sides interact. It's quite characteristic and quite different from the way it's done today, imo. There are countless examples, from the top of my head, the intros of Sounds Like a Melody, Big in Japan... (Btw, iconic melodic instrumental themes is a huge part of the 80s vibe).
I remember that the Atari version of Cubase had the "overquantize" function where you only quantized notes a certain percentage towards the note value kinda like a simplified logic edit. It was fast and a nice way of not getting everything totally sterile to the exact beat, where people today most often quantize everything to the exact 8'th or 16'th note
14: Have a short melody for your right hand that goes together with many chords. Stick to that melody and do a lot of chord progressions, even scale changes, with your left hand.
A typical thing that was used in the 80s and before in addition to regular modulations is after the bridge to modulate 1 whole note up like in Sheriff - When I'm With You. This wasn't only a 80s thing, they did it in the 70s too, and likely long before that. It seems like they stopped doing it in the 90s most likely because it sounds a bit cliched. You actually need the ability to sing 1 note higher though.
I am of the same view. I find it so much easier to relate to the analog-era stuff, but then again I would like to expand my frame of reference more beyond that.
I love the early eighties synth pop played on Junos, and the late '80s house music played on Junos and samples of Junos, but the bit in the middle when the DX7 caused the charts to be full of power ballads with awful FM piano sounds was terrible.
My only side-eye on this is regarding using analog synths during the eighties. Oberheims were quite ubiquitous. And while something of a hybrid-I used an Oberheim Matrix 6 in bands back then along with an Ensoniq Mirage and a Yamaha TX81Z as my basic gigging platform initially-and I could never have managed without that fat Oberheim. For just only horns if absolutely nothing else.
Frustrating how so much of the hardware like those original drum machines that were used in the 80s, which became popular then because they were cheap, are now almost impossible to get. Would be quite interested if you had any, sorta, alternative machines you'd recommend that retain some version of those individual "feels" you mention. Or would you say that even modern drum machines have their own sorta groove to them? When it comes to quantization I'm amazed how many people seem to just align their midi recording exactly to a grid when any good tool should allow you to set its sensitivity. In my opinion those dials should never be at maximum -- since I started recording notes rather than programming them I always thought the point of using quantization was to tighten up your performance just a little bit, not to snap it into some kinda rigid place.
I'm not sure what your budget is, but check out Yamaha's RX line of drum machines. The RX5 is the most sought-after because it has individual outs and volume control for each channel. I have the RX7 and I love it. It doesn't have individual outs, but it's got a great tone and I think really hits that 80's sweet spot without breaking the bank.
@@EspenKraft "never" is not a true statement. In the 90s, many electronic dance music producers used the Amiga with their samplers. But such samplers began to be produced only in 1989. That is true, it is not the 80s. But this is the 90s!
Slightly off topic, but there is an unofficial expansion for the VPS Avenger VST with the most famous ST-xx samples. Not that gritty and sometimes dull sound, but fun as an "what if" scenario to try how well some Amiga mod's could have sounded with better hardware.
@@EspenKraftspeaking of limited resources and creative music composing/production. It would be nice if you could do a video someday about the tricks used back then in Protracker. There were some pretty amazing tracks made. But that goes for the C64 as well :)
I never used a tracker in my life. I never had an Amiga back in the day. I was fortunate to get into the pro audio world early on and the Atari ST reigned supreme in that world.
Great video, Espen! One thing I'll add is to double up the vocals and put them through an Aphex Aural Exciter (we used to just call them an "Aphex unit"). From memory the Aphex units could only be hired by the hour or day and you couldn't buy one -- a bit like Panavision lenses. Thankfully, DAW plug-in versions are now available.
It's just fun to see how fast those Aphex Effects got busted when the digital revolution started in the mid 80's. I can only remember seeing them for sale for somethinkg like5-10 grand a piece and only few years into the 90's compeeting brands were selling alterntive solutions that most semi pro's could afford without haveing to sell a kidney or 2
the 80s was an attitude towards life and this was reflected in the music of that time ... how do you want to achieve this nowadays ? only with synth etc ? forget it
The most important video on music production I've seen in quite a while. Its title should'nt be taken too literally though - IMHO, most of the tipps should indeed be useful for *any kind* of music: 1. Don't get your bassline's volume pumping up and down, triggered by kicks via side-chain 0:17 3. Write music, not beats - use chords and melodies 1:00 & 4. Use modulations 1:36 => _these two belong together_ 5. Don't over-compress/-limit your mix 2:14 7. Use limitations creatively 3:12 8. Don't quantise everything 3:45 & 11. Overdub your beats with percussion played live 6:12 => _these two belong together_ 9. Don't alienate vocals with Auto-Tune / Melodyne 4:20 13. Don't drown your music in an ocean of reverb! 7:50 Only 2. bass < 80 Hz 0:29, 6. tape 2:48, 10. drum-machines 5:07 and 12. synths from the era 6:54 are pure "eighies only" tipps in my humble opinion. Anyhow, yet another brilliant piece of work from one of my top-favourite UA-camrs. Well done, Espen 🌟
My tip is find one of the commonly used drum machines from that era. A lot of the sounds are instantly recognisable from that era. I also favour quite a lot of gated reverb and quite a heavy bass on the snare drum
Fantastic video! I think my favorite of yours. I cherish 80s music and sounds - mostly for the masterful compositions and musicianship some other aspects you touch on here (before most synth playing ended up coming from quantized / arpeggiated / MIDI generated chords etc). I don't try to make my music sound like it was recorded in the 80s, so half of these techniques (which ofc are authentic to the 80s) don't apply to my music despite most people will notice my music has an obvious 80s vibe. I am trying to combine the best aspects of 80s production with modern techniques which I think sound better. Espen, I know you're the 80s, but I gotta argue just about your point that gated verb on the snares was rarely done? I love your point that maybe it wasn't as ubiquitous as the current popular perception suggests - but c'mon, it was a distinctive sound of many productions from that era and wasn't used later.
Mostly good suggestions. I would think you could come pretty close recording digitally today. What made the songs 80s for me was the sounds, styles and songwriting. Not the audio fidelity. One of my favorite 80s albums was Heart's "Bad Animals". It sounds as 80s as anything, but was recorded all digital. It's the instrument sounds and vocals that matter, not the medium of the recording. Things don't sound like the 80s today not because their done in a daw, but because some writing is drastically different today. On radio played songs, there are far fewer people that actually know how to sing really well or play instruments well. Today with the younger generation music is more about putting on a dance show with half naked people on stage. Musicianship counts for very little. But in the 80s, musicianship was 90% of it. You could look like Phil Collins, Billy Joel or Ann Wilson and still be at the very top. Madonna made it big because back then, she could sing well and put on the dance show. With few exceptions, that is not the case today. Looks and how good they can dance is usually much more important than if they can sing well or play an instrument. Just watch the Grammy Awards show. It's no wonder rap is one of the most popular musical formats today. In the early 80s, there were still a lot of analog synths being used like the OB-X series, Prophet 5, Jupiter 8, Juno, etc. In the later 80s, musicians were turning in their great sounding synths for sometimes lousy sounding digital ones. It wasn't the digital technology that was the limitation, it was the synths. Most digital synths weren't the best at making analog sounds at the time. Now, they can be so good it's really hard to tell the difference. Especially with modeling of analog synths. With all the modern digital re-makes today, it would be very easy to make an 80s sounding album without being rich or needing a studio. What's lacking today is mostly the talent. It's not the changes of the equipment. Talent is frowned upon in the music industry today. At least if you want to be heard on the radio.
Really enjoyed this. You hit a lot of nails on the heads there Epsen. Doesn't matter what I record it always ends up sounding from the 80's. At the age of 54 it's probably in my blood by now. Love your channel.
Nice episode liked the tip about manual drum fills and sampled synths just been listening to scritti politi there music was so well produced must of been s a sampler involved
Scritti's hit album 'Cupid and Psyche 85' had a few tracks produced by Arif Martin who did Chaka Khan's "I Feel For You" (which utilized a sampler) and the liner notes credit Simon Climie (of Climie Fisher) and J J Jeczalik (of The Art of Noise) with Fairlight programming. It was at the forefront of sampling and the latest production techniques at the time.
I think Sega Genesis/Megadrive was polarizing because it was often loud and bassy, it did follow a lot of these other rules though (probably because it started in the 80s and is all digital)!
Another tip is to try a leveller or "broadcast limiter" on the master, if you want a hyped FM-radio sound. Stations would use gear to enhance or hype the sound between the turntable and transmitter. You can go down thevrabbit hole of 80s radio station enhancer gear, if you're into that sound. People used to wonder why the song sounded different on the radio vs on the tape/record, and that was one of the reasons why.
That's assuming you'd first treated your sounds as Espen recommended, in this video. If you put 80s broadcast sweeteners on a modern mix, it's not going to make that kind of mix sound like the 80s.
You didn't talk much about guitars, I guess because you generally don't have them on your music. For all the synths there were in 80's pop, drummers/guitarists/singers and bassists still outnumbered the keyboardists by a good amount. Of course so many synth-using bands were staffed by converted guitarists (how very dare they! ;) Gary Numan, Human League, Depeche Mode, to name the more famous. Still, for pop type guitar stuff I'd say use chorus and compressor pedals, lay off the "blues" type playing, instead get nifty with the arpeggios. For bass guitar, chorus was also sometimes used, often with the desire to sound more like a synth bass and not rockist at all. Love your channel!
Dear Espen Kraft, I have been watching a lot of your videos and have fallen in love with your music as well as your content. I am dealing with confusion and am requesting you to give me some advice. I have decided to follow this philosophy of limiting myself. I agree with the drum machine aspect of this video and now am stuck with making a decision. What is a good drum machine to get to right now in an affordable price? (behringer, roland boutique, tr-6s etc.) The real old school stuff is very expensive. Also, does these mentioned machines have that internal swing? I am aware that they have a swing option nonetheless. Also, speaking in terms of limiting myself with gear, I have WaveAlchemy Triaz. Should I use classic samples in triaz (Lm-1, 808 etc.) and stick to a certain set of samples and apply swing from Triaz sequencer? Does that achieve the vibe? I do enjoy physical controls too which is why I am considering a machine instead of using the vst. Your advice would be greatly appreciated! Sorry for the huge comment! Wishing you prosperity :D
Thanks! Long question with longer answer. I don't do this in the comments any more, but join in on my next live stream and ask there. That's where I answer questions like this these days. Cheers
Thanks for uploading, this really brought me close ! ANY WAY YOU MIGHT HELP ? How can I emulate the sound of the dialogue or the general tonal/sound quality from 80s ANIME, like the first dragon ball episode in a daw today ? ✌️
Espen, I so agree with your No. 1 pick. That side chain compression of bass and kick is such an overused cliché now. The sound, to my old ears, is terrible.
I have followed all your advice since the eighties except #2 and #12 and I stopped following #6 and #10 in 1996 and, in a subtle way, #9 in 2013, so I guess I am doing pretty well.
Hi Espen, I hope you are feeling very well! What if I don't want to use Drum Machines or Drum Samples? I want to play manually the powerful Simmons SDSV electronic drum synthesizer live together with the Hi-Hat, Crash and Ride. 😊 What is your opinion of that?
Just go for it. Playing a live drum kit is definitely one way to do it and lots of acts did that in the 80s. If you're doing pop you should play to a click though. Solid timing (with a human feel) is key.
For the love of all that is good - don't sound like a crying little brat when you sing anything. sing like you mean it. STOP WHINING in (auto) tune and calling it 'singing' Liked that ironic touch about having to show what a DODO is for the DODO's of this world lol - awesome video - thank you!
Sampling was new tech in the 80s. You got a sampler and you could sample synths, vocals, drums etc and create new sounds and textures. Layering synths and then sample that. Sampling sounds to make new textures was used a lot in the 80s. The sound coming from these samplers had a sound of its own and that sound defined the 80s and that's why we do the same thing today to capture that. You cannot create authentic sounding 80s synthpop without using samplers from that era.
@@EspenKraft Ha ha, I agree. However, in my memory a lot of '80's songs were all too simple 4 on the floor songs so the girls could dance to it. Except for shoe-gazing and synth music. Good luck w/ your channel.
Funny how my man claims he IS the eighties, but in reality he's not even a threat to village wedding bands in Moldova! 😂😂😂 Here's one example ua-cam.com/video/kJqP5XH64Ac/v-deo.htmlsi=Q8JdQBPPqLN8Bhgy
12" singles changed that. But they weren't most popular through most of the 80's, and pop music wasn't generally sold on them. You're not getting good Bass on a 7" 45.
I remember when we'd buy compilation albums with 20 tracks on (10 on each side, before double albums like the NOW series came out) and they were ridiculously trebly. No bass at all, because the grooves were squished so close together. It was great when 12" singles became popular as they didn't sound as tinny.
I'm FURIOUS😡! YOU CAN AUTHENTICALLY USE DRUM SAMPLES FOR 80S DRUMS!! - - You just need to use the power of the 8bit Fairlight CMI (15kUSD) or Synclavier II!
I have to disagree about the lack of bass. I have plenty of records from the 70s/80s in many genres that have a great deep low end. It may not have been as relevant in pop music and it's not cranked to the max like now, but I have plenty of records I can shake the house with.
You could certainly shake the house with vinyl records from the 1980s, but they simply didn't have the subbass frequencies of today. No one had a subwoofer speaker in their house and anything with lower than 50Hz bass hum would break the cutting lathe at the vinyl pressing plant. Today, club music and club and festival speakers can play sub bass as 30Hz or even lower and EDM creators often include sub bass that wouldn't even be audible on 1980s systems, if it could have even been pressed on vinyl.
@@AutPen38 I understand there is a lot more sub bass these days, but I would argue people had better stereos in their homes back in the 80's than most people do these days. My set of 15" speakers definitely cranked out the bass better back then than the 2" Bluetooth speakers most people have in their homes nowadays. Musicians have nice stereos, no one else does... So in the end, all of that low end is still lost outside of clubs, just for different reasons. That's why saturators and tape emulators are so popular today, they make the bass heard on tiny speakers. So yes, sub bass was cut from vinyl, but there was plenty of low end live and on record.
Sometimes they did, but not in a pumping french house way. It would be more like, to give a different groove to the bass line, rather than to duck it out of the way of a straight kick.
Most importantly Listen to 70s punk ...all our favorite synth bands were very into punk disco and Kraft werk ..synth music needs that punky bite or else its boring and lifeless
Problem now is people have so many synths and it has become about gear rather than the music, no innovation or creativity anymore, a case of so many synths so little talent
Bass errors are prevailing these days and they are really horrendous - all these songs with grotesque 50Hz-60Hz cranky subs with even snares being bassy. And yes, problems with over-compressed, over-reverberated walls of sound, when even a pop song sounds like a druggy ilk of shoegaze. Anyway, it is impossible to reproduce real 80s sound these days, because many producers are very afraid of 80s poor sound with 110Hz cuts, shabby cassette rustles, impoverished synths/samplers and so on. BTW, 80s were not all the way shiny, and some records had been very terribly produced - check, Daryl Hall & John Oates - "I Can't Go For That", for example, it sounds like the worst type of Bandcamp twentysomething lo-fi indie. Then, Wang Chung's 1985 album "To Live and Die in L.A." - it sounds very poor. And so many other examples. Any brilliant examples? I have been listening to Raindancing (1987) by Alison Moyet this winter - remastered/deluxe version and, Gosh!, it sounds incredible - can be used as the reference album by producers and audio engineers!
All you need is bad reverb drowning the snare. If your drums sound like they were recorded in a trash dumpster, Your ready for the 80s. Using a fretless bass is a good move too.
About the analog vs digital synth thing, depends what year of the 80s you're going for. Popular music - and music technology - changed so much over that decade that a general statement like that isn't necessarily true. And as for reverbs, I noticed that using good emulations of the reverbs that were used back then - eg. the RMX or the 224 - goes a long way to getting that eighties vibe into a mix.
Thanks! 80s heavy snares. For me the 80s sound is cheap analog synths(junos) , digitals dx7, ppg etc..combined with sample sounds from an emu. Sometimes my softsynth collection is to big. Choise stress, so i give myselfs a limited numbers of synths to use. For example: uvi emu2( max 8 outputs), korg polysix and monopoly,arturia dx7, roland juno 60 and a spark drum kit. 2 reverbs from arturia, one delay and a compressor and eq. I have to do with that in one track incl.selfmade sound effects recorded as audio or sample. Ofcourse in cubase .
Here’s one to add. Let me know your thoughts.. record straight audio out of your synths. No midi - get the sound a land go for it. Plus, you get more practice trying to do a good “keeper” take. Not everything (like midi drums or tight bass) but give it a shot on a chord progression or lead! And yes, NO autotune.
I second all of Espen's comments (I was there too!). I will add to his 'no Autotune' rule that you could, where appropriate, double-track vocals - and occasionally instruments- the old-fashioned way by recording them twice. Also, thank you Espen for setting the record straight regarding gated reverb and long reverb tails.
"Another thing people seem to forget is that in the 80s people ... wrote melodies and chord structures". Espen, you're my hero :-) You just made a lot of folks on /r/synthesizers have an anxiety attack.
Tip 14: don't use a neon skyline in the video for your track
That's a synthwave aestethic. A good chunk of these tips don't apply to synthwave, as synthwave is not 80's music, it's just inspired by 80's music.
@@wonderwheel80s I think the comment is just a light-hearted joke about Synthwave. Many of those who make synthwave music probably weren't born until the '90s or '00s but think that artificial neon skylines and horizons were integral to the '80s style. (The 80s in reality had a multitude of styles.) This 'outrun' aesthetic supposedly gets its name from the arcade game Outrun. I played that back in the 80s and don't remember any magenta neon.
@@relicthominin9864 Yeah just a bit of fun, a throwaway comment. I actually applied nearly every principle Espen mentions when I recreated Axel F last year. No limiting, use of drum machines, getting that 'tape' sound, etc. ua-cam.com/video/ocdS7AALaFQ/v-deo.html
@@relicthominin9864 I agree with you, (I was there too back then!), anyway the pioneers of synthwave (which was born at the end of the 00s) are actually xennials like me. We were children (not teens) during the 80s, and that aesthetic Is a romanticization of our childhood Memories of the 80s.
@relicthominin9864 The aesthetic I remember most vividly from the 80s was the Mephis Style. We had that on wall paper, on plates, sheets and comforters, bus seats, movie theaters... it was everywhere!
I like at 1:00 "compose your music" . A long time ago, in a far away galaxy, it seemed obvious but today when I listen to the radio...
You can say it loud
Before I was fortunate enough to be one of the very first few people in the UK to acquire an MPC60 in April 1988, my only way of sequencing was using the drum machine to program patterns of midi notes for my only two synths (Juno106 and DX100). The first drum machine was TR505, and then I added Kawai R100 and Yamaha RX5. Multitrack recording was on a Yamaha 4-track. I had a turntable to play records and sample music. My first samplers were two Casio Sk1’s. Trust me, there was a lot of manual syncing, punching in/out, bouncing, and music performance . The only,sequenced parts were drums (drum machines) and synth-bass (using the drum machines). I had no effects whatsoever. The limitations bred wonderful creative results with fat/gritty sounds and many huge grins on my face.
If you have any of that old stuff digitized, you should post it!
I think one of these is a general rule: For the love of all that is good, don't use autotune! Nothing has sucked the soul out of vocals like the use of autotune.
Exactly.
And It's not even that cumbersome with todays DAW's to manually fix small problem areas with in case of Cubase using vari audio. pretty sure most DAW's and also the different vocal plugins offer a a manual mode so you can fix small problems while preserving the natural pitch drift and voice vibrato without smashing the whole track with an "auto" fix. It's totally ok to use auto tune or whatever plugin you prefere for special effects if it fits your idea of the music, but I hate to watch tv shows and stuff where the engineers run an "auto" setting to all contestants or whatever kind of show it is just to make the overall sound "pleasant" to listen to.
Such a bullshit amateur statement 😅
You forgot… adding a hint of Aquanet hairspray to the room will most likely help with that 80’s vibe also.
It took me a while to associate the colour of your T-shirt to the Jupiter-8 casually placed in the background. In fact, it took me a while to notice the Jupiter-8.
Very TR-808
It actually resembles the carpet from the movie The Shining
14. use chorus and flanger
15. have crazy hair : )
Outstanding tips. One more: dont forget that super atmospheric sounding bridge part with the bass drum going boom boom boom... [big white snare] baaaanng and loop -- and we're in for the ultimate voyage through the music!
Good stuff. Older guy who was there. Don't forget about REAL drummers too. (Aside from overdubbing a few things on top of a machine). Yes, drum machines were big. But lots of bands/tunes had real drummers. Gary Numan, Devo, Talking Heads, B52s, Simple Minds, The Cure, Culture Club, Wang Chung, Oingo Bongo, Duran Duran, and many more had real drummers. Using a hybrid kit to incorporate some Simmons drums or triggering a few samples may also help. :)
Anything post 2000 is off my radar. the 60s and 70s were fantastic and I was a teen through the 80s. The 80s were fabulous. Just found this channel and it's very cool. 😀
Cheers!
Yeah I basically do all those things, apart from the tape recording (maybe when I move into my new studio). Good tips as always!
Cheers!
Your T-Shirt gives me immediate 80s vibes. My room hat a wallpaper in those colors 😅. May it is the reason why my tracks sound like 80s and 90s 😂
Great video, Espen! I think I would add to the list something about how they used the stereo field back then, and how different sounds on opposite sides interact. It's quite characteristic and quite different from the way it's done today, imo. There are countless examples, from the top of my head, the intros of Sounds Like a Melody, Big in Japan... (Btw, iconic melodic instrumental themes is a huge part of the 80s vibe).
Good tips! Cheers :)
I remember that the Atari version of Cubase had the "overquantize" function where you only quantized notes a certain percentage towards the note value kinda like a simplified logic edit. It was fast and a nice way of not getting everything totally sterile to the exact beat, where people today most often quantize everything to the exact 8'th or 16'th note
I think they call that that the strength function in Logic quantize...
Logic Pro has a percentage based quantize so it can still be slightly off in spots. Really cool
You make the world a brighter place Espen, thanks for all you do! Todd (Ontario, Canada)
Brilliant and useful video, thanks for sharing! I'll make sure to utilize these tips in some of my future tracks
Thanks!
As a person born in the early '80s, and grew up with Italo disco, I grant the seal of approval.
Kudos E.K.!
That shirt!
It seems as if I wore it, I would, like Christopher Reeve in “Somewhere in Time”, be transported back to 1976!
I want it! 😁
'Don't over-limit your mix' = photo of an Oasis! I'm dying 😂
14: Have a short melody for your right hand that goes together with many chords. Stick to that melody and do a lot of chord progressions, even scale changes, with your left hand.
A typical thing that was used in the 80s and before in addition to regular modulations is after the bridge to modulate 1 whole note up like in Sheriff - When I'm With You. This wasn't only a 80s thing, they did it in the 70s too, and likely long before that. It seems like they stopped doing it in the 90s most likely because it sounds a bit cliched. You actually need the ability to sing 1 note higher though.
That 1983 Sergio Mendes song "Never Gonna Let You Go" is the king of key changes. Crazy to play.
No autotune, but a nice bit of vocoder sometimes😍
Yes. That was the Autotune of the seventies to eighties.
The early 80s, pre '83, was the best bit. I want to sound like 1981 Yoshitaka Azuma.
I am of the same view. I find it so much easier to relate to the analog-era stuff, but then again I would like to expand my frame of reference more beyond that.
I love the early eighties synth pop played on Junos, and the late '80s house music played on Junos and samples of Junos, but the bit in the middle when the DX7 caused the charts to be full of power ballads with awful FM piano sounds was terrible.
My only side-eye on this is regarding using analog synths during the eighties. Oberheims were quite ubiquitous. And while something of a hybrid-I used an Oberheim Matrix 6 in bands back then along with an Ensoniq Mirage and a Yamaha TX81Z as my basic gigging platform initially-and I could never have managed without that fat Oberheim.
For just only horns if absolutely nothing else.
Frustrating how so much of the hardware like those original drum machines that were used in the 80s, which became popular then because they were cheap, are now almost impossible to get.
Would be quite interested if you had any, sorta, alternative machines you'd recommend that retain some version of those individual "feels" you mention. Or would you say that even modern drum machines have their own sorta groove to them?
When it comes to quantization I'm amazed how many people seem to just align their midi recording exactly to a grid when any good tool should allow you to set its sensitivity. In my opinion those dials should never be at maximum -- since I started recording notes rather than programming them I always thought the point of using quantization was to tighten up your performance just a little bit, not to snap it into some kinda rigid place.
I'm not sure what your budget is, but check out Yamaha's RX line of drum machines. The RX5 is the most sought-after because it has individual outs and volume control for each channel. I have the RX7 and I love it. It doesn't have individual outs, but it's got a great tone and I think really hits that 80's sweet spot without breaking the bank.
One with a very quirky (in a good way) internal groove is the Casio RZ-1. That's the one I'd pick first. It's not too expensive either.
8-bit samples, Amiga 500 with sampler and tracker, and some little natural noise was also part of 80's ;)
For a kid living with his parents yes. I'm talking about the pro music world. The Amiga was never part of that.
@@EspenKraft "never" is not a true statement. In the 90s, many electronic dance music producers used the Amiga with their samplers. But such samplers began to be produced only in 1989. That is true, it is not the 80s. But this is the 90s!
Slightly off topic, but there is an unofficial expansion for the VPS Avenger VST with the most famous ST-xx samples. Not that gritty and sometimes dull sound, but fun as an "what if" scenario to try how well some Amiga mod's could have sounded with better hardware.
@@EspenKraftspeaking of limited resources and creative music composing/production. It would be nice if you could do a video someday about the tricks used back then in Protracker. There were some pretty amazing tracks made. But that goes for the C64 as well :)
I never used a tracker in my life. I never had an Amiga back in the day. I was fortunate to get into the pro audio world early on and the Atari ST reigned supreme in that world.
Great video, Espen! One thing I'll add is to double up the vocals and put them through an Aphex Aural Exciter (we used to just call them an "Aphex unit"). From memory the Aphex units could only be hired by the hour or day and you couldn't buy one -- a bit like Panavision lenses. Thankfully, DAW plug-in versions are now available.
Thanks! I remember the "hiring days" well. ;-)
It's just fun to see how fast those Aphex Effects got busted when the digital revolution started in the mid 80's. I can only remember seeing them for sale for somethinkg like5-10 grand a piece and only few years into the 90's compeeting brands were selling alterntive solutions that most semi pro's could afford without haveing to sell a kidney or 2
the 80s was an attitude towards life and this was reflected in the music of that time ... how do you want to achieve this nowadays ? only with synth etc ? forget it
Some solid and great tips here, that I will keep in mind for future productions. Thanks!
Cheers!
The most important video on music production I've seen in quite a while. Its title should'nt be taken too literally though - IMHO, most of the tipps should indeed be useful for *any kind* of music:
1. Don't get your bassline's volume pumping up and down, triggered by kicks via side-chain 0:17
3. Write music, not beats - use chords and melodies 1:00 & 4. Use modulations 1:36 => _these two belong together_
5. Don't over-compress/-limit your mix 2:14
7. Use limitations creatively 3:12
8. Don't quantise everything 3:45 & 11. Overdub your beats with percussion played live 6:12 => _these two belong together_
9. Don't alienate vocals with Auto-Tune / Melodyne 4:20
13. Don't drown your music in an ocean of reverb! 7:50
Only 2. bass < 80 Hz 0:29, 6. tape 2:48, 10. drum-machines 5:07 and 12. synths from the era 6:54 are pure "eighies only" tipps in my humble opinion.
Anyhow, yet another brilliant piece of work from one of my top-favourite UA-camrs. Well done, Espen 🌟
Cheers man!
Your t-shirt remember me the colors of breadbin Commodore 64..😀
❤ this is gold! As every vid of Espen is.
Thanks!
Having a good understanding of artificial stereo imaging methods can add a lot of authenticity too.
Use 6th 7th and 9th chords. 🎹🎹🎹
😃 Thanx for taking me back to my 80’s productions man. Your tips is soooo extremely spot on Espen 😃😃 as always - a great video from you 👍😎👍
Cheers man!
Love that shirt
The 80s !! ❤ thank you for these tips
Cheers!
My tip is find one of the commonly used drum machines from that era. A lot of the sounds are instantly recognisable from that era. I also favour quite a lot of gated reverb and quite a heavy bass on the snare drum
Example: ua-cam.com/video/5Fze2DyFq8s/v-deo.htmlsi=9b_2GqbBC2_FttX4
Fantastic video! I think my favorite of yours. I cherish 80s music and sounds - mostly for the masterful compositions and musicianship some other aspects you touch on here (before most synth playing ended up coming from quantized / arpeggiated / MIDI generated chords etc). I don't try to make my music sound like it was recorded in the 80s, so half of these techniques (which ofc are authentic to the 80s) don't apply to my music despite most people will notice my music has an obvious 80s vibe. I am trying to combine the best aspects of 80s production with modern techniques which I think sound better. Espen, I know you're the 80s, but I gotta argue just about your point that gated verb on the snares was rarely done? I love your point that maybe it wasn't as ubiquitous as the current popular perception suggests - but c'mon, it was a distinctive sound of many productions from that era and wasn't used later.
That was great, thankyou
Cheers!
Mostly good suggestions.
I would think you could come pretty close recording digitally today. What made the songs 80s for me was the sounds, styles and songwriting. Not the audio fidelity. One of my favorite 80s albums was Heart's "Bad Animals". It sounds as 80s as anything, but was recorded all digital. It's the instrument sounds and vocals that matter, not the medium of the recording. Things don't sound like the 80s today not because their done in a daw, but because some writing is drastically different today. On radio played songs, there are far fewer people that actually know how to sing really well or play instruments well. Today with the younger generation music is more about putting on a dance show with half naked people on stage. Musicianship counts for very little. But in the 80s, musicianship was 90% of it. You could look like Phil Collins, Billy Joel or Ann Wilson and still be at the very top. Madonna made it big because back then, she could sing well and put on the dance show. With few exceptions, that is not the case today. Looks and how good they can dance is usually much more important than if they can sing well or play an instrument. Just watch the Grammy Awards show. It's no wonder rap is one of the most popular musical formats today.
In the early 80s, there were still a lot of analog synths being used like the OB-X series, Prophet 5, Jupiter 8, Juno, etc. In the later 80s, musicians were turning in their great sounding synths for sometimes lousy sounding digital ones. It wasn't the digital technology that was the limitation, it was the synths. Most digital synths weren't the best at making analog sounds at the time. Now, they can be so good it's really hard to tell the difference. Especially with modeling of analog synths.
With all the modern digital re-makes today, it would be very easy to make an 80s sounding album without being rich or needing a studio. What's lacking today is mostly the talent. It's not the changes of the equipment. Talent is frowned upon in the music industry today. At least if you want to be heard on the radio.
Extra points for the lovely IBM Thinkpad in the background there; an early 2000s model?
Thanks! It's a IBM Thinkpad 600 from 1998.
Really enjoyed this. You hit a lot of nails on the heads there Epsen. Doesn't matter what I record it always ends up sounding from the 80's. At the age of 54 it's probably in my blood by now. Love your channel.
Cheers!
HA! @1:00.... write some music!!! that was great. Typical 80s song structure: V C V C B C .... Love this video. Great tips and funny.
Fantastic tips. Can you do a vid showcasing them. Especially the "modulation" technique. Thanks.
Thanks! Sure, did that numerous times already. I link to one of my videos at the end of this showing this. "Why do 80s music sound so good?".
@@EspenKraft Thanks. I'm allowed one dumb question a month. 👍
Also use instrumental parts and supporting catchy synth hooks in addition to the vocals. 😎
Nice episode liked the tip about manual drum fills and sampled synths just been listening to scritti politi there music was so well produced must of been s a sampler involved
Scritti's hit album 'Cupid and Psyche 85' had a few tracks produced by Arif Martin who did Chaka Khan's "I Feel For You" (which utilized a sampler) and the liner notes credit Simon Climie (of Climie Fisher) and J J Jeczalik (of The Art of Noise) with Fairlight programming. It was at the forefront of sampling and the latest production techniques at the time.
Amen to all what you said..
I think Sega Genesis/Megadrive was polarizing because it was often loud and bassy, it did follow a lot of these other rules though (probably because it started in the 80s and is all digital)!
Another tip is to try a leveller or "broadcast limiter" on the master, if you want a hyped FM-radio sound. Stations would use gear to enhance or hype the sound between the turntable and transmitter. You can go down thevrabbit hole of 80s radio station enhancer gear, if you're into that sound. People used to wonder why the song sounded different on the radio vs on the tape/record, and that was one of the reasons why.
That's assuming you'd first treated your sounds as Espen recommended, in this video. If you put 80s broadcast sweeteners on a modern mix, it's not going to make that kind of mix sound like the 80s.
I want a t-shirt like that!
I can resume to: get a time machine and back to the eighties... unless you are a rich guy with a lot of vintage drum mashines... thanks!
Also add a liberal dose of 808 hihat in there somewhere and add one or two "Hey!" samplse from Art of noise or "Ah yeah!" sample!
Please interview Andy Richards! synth on Relax and many other tunes. He has done some podcasts but I think he'd be great on here
Interesting man for sure.
Please do the list how to sound 90s
You didn't talk much about guitars, I guess because you generally don't have them on your music. For all the synths there were in 80's pop, drummers/guitarists/singers and bassists still outnumbered the keyboardists by a good amount. Of course so many synth-using bands were staffed by converted guitarists (how very dare they! ;) Gary Numan, Human League, Depeche Mode, to name the more famous. Still, for pop type guitar stuff I'd say use chorus and compressor pedals, lay off the "blues" type playing, instead get nifty with the arpeggios. For bass guitar, chorus was also sometimes used, often with the desire to sound more like a synth bass and not rockist at all. Love your channel!
True. If I did 15 tips I would include the guitar. I even dedicated one total episode of my series "A Song Is Born" to guitars in 80s pop.
@@EspenKraft ooh! nice, I will check that out!!
Melodies and chords….. this advice made me a bit sad. Key component of music somehow got forgotten or diminished
Dear Espen Kraft, I have been watching a lot of your videos and have fallen in love with your music as well as your content. I am dealing with confusion and am requesting you to give me some advice. I have decided to follow this philosophy of limiting myself. I agree with the drum machine aspect of this video and now am stuck with making a decision. What is a good drum machine to get to right now in an affordable price? (behringer, roland boutique, tr-6s etc.) The real old school stuff is very expensive. Also, does these mentioned machines have that internal swing? I am aware that they have a swing option nonetheless. Also, speaking in terms of limiting myself with gear, I have WaveAlchemy Triaz. Should I use classic samples in triaz (Lm-1, 808 etc.) and stick to a certain set of samples and apply swing from Triaz sequencer? Does that achieve the vibe? I do enjoy physical controls too which is why I am considering a machine instead of using the vst. Your advice would be greatly appreciated! Sorry for the huge comment! Wishing you prosperity :D
Thanks! Long question with longer answer. I don't do this in the comments any more, but join in on my next live stream and ask there. That's where I answer questions like this these days. Cheers
@@EspenKraft wow thanks for replying ! When is the next live stream?
I plan to do one next Sunday. In 8 days. Preview will come up here on the channel.
If you have to pick one track to not quantize, leave your bass alone! Play it!
thank you very much these are all very usefull tips.
Thanks for uploading, this really brought me close ! ANY WAY YOU MIGHT HELP ?
How can I emulate the sound of the dialogue or the general tonal/sound quality from 80s ANIME, like the first dragon ball episode in a daw today ? ✌️
I have no idea. Cheers
@@EspenKraft Thanks for the reply 👋
Espen, I so agree with your No. 1 pick. That side chain compression of bass and kick is such an overused cliché now. The sound, to my old ears, is terrible.
#14. Listen while on cocaine.
I couldn't put that in the video itself. :P
@@EspenKraft Espen's into blow? Lol, I never would have suspected you were that kind of guy.
I have followed all your advice since the eighties except #2 and #12 and I stopped following #6 and #10 in 1996 and, in a subtle way, #9 in 2013, so I guess I am doing pretty well.
Hi Espen, I hope you are feeling very well!
What if I don't want to use Drum Machines or Drum Samples?
I want to play manually the powerful Simmons SDSV electronic drum synthesizer live together with the Hi-Hat, Crash and Ride. 😊
What is your opinion of that?
Just go for it. Playing a live drum kit is definitely one way to do it and lots of acts did that in the 80s. If you're doing pop you should play to a click though. Solid timing (with a human feel) is key.
@@EspenKraft Thank you very much for everything, please never stop making Italo Disco!
Take care of yourself and best regards from Uruguay!
Many thanks! I don't often hear from Uruguay so this was nice. Take care! :)
For the love of all that is good - don't sound like a crying little brat when you sing anything. sing like you mean it. STOP WHINING in (auto) tune and calling it 'singing'
Liked that ironic touch about having to show what a DODO is for the DODO's of this world lol - awesome video - thank you!
Cheers!
whats the benefit of sampling analog synths and then recording from the sampler? What does it do to the sound to make it more 80s?
Sampling was new tech in the 80s. You got a sampler and you could sample synths, vocals, drums etc and create new sounds and textures. Layering synths and then sample that. Sampling sounds to make new textures was used a lot in the 80s. The sound coming from these samplers had a sound of its own and that sound defined the 80s and that's why we do the same thing today to capture that. You cannot create authentic sounding 80s synthpop without using samplers from that era.
@@EspenKraft Thanks! love your videos.
Thanks!
Hey Espen! What is the song that we hear at 4:32?
It's my cover of New Order's "Round and Round".
What about: "Use 4 on the floor (Disco) for EVERY song."? 😁
Terrible advice. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Ha ha, I agree. However, in my memory a lot of '80's songs were all too simple 4 on the floor songs so the girls could dance to it. Except for shoe-gazing and synth music. Good luck w/ your channel.
Nope. That is not accurate.
Haha. A lot of this is what I do. I hate the sidechaining bass. It's so overdone.
the song demonstrated in the video?
A cover of New Order "Round and round".
@@EspenKraft WTH You're fast! Thank you! where can I listen to it?
You can't unless you're a patron on my Patreon, close to the top tiers that have access to absolutely everything. Cheers
Funny how my man claims he IS the eighties, but in reality he's not even a threat to village wedding bands in Moldova! 😂😂😂
Here's one example
ua-cam.com/video/kJqP5XH64Ac/v-deo.htmlsi=Q8JdQBPPqLN8Bhgy
One of the nost disturbing 👕 of human history! Buy goes perfectly with your accent
Bass can be loud on vinyl, have you heard about Dub?
I'm totally deaf so I can't hear you.
12" singles changed that. But they weren't most popular through most of the 80's, and pop music wasn't generally sold on them. You're not getting good Bass on a 7" 45.
I remember when we'd buy compilation albums with 20 tracks on (10 on each side, before double albums like the NOW series came out) and they were ridiculously trebly. No bass at all, because the grooves were squished so close together. It was great when 12" singles became popular as they didn't sound as tinny.
Are these chords from a Alpha Juno?
Can't really remember, but from hearing it now I suppose so.
I'm FURIOUS😡! YOU CAN AUTHENTICALLY USE DRUM SAMPLES FOR 80S DRUMS!!
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You just need to use the power of the 8bit Fairlight CMI (15kUSD) or Synclavier II!
Would I make better 80s recordings if I wore a bit of Polo or Drakkar? I do have some cherry bomb air fresheners, so almost there.
No.
I have to disagree about the lack of bass. I have plenty of records from the 70s/80s in many genres that have a great deep low end. It may not have been as relevant in pop music and it's not cranked to the max like now, but I have plenty of records I can shake the house with.
You could certainly shake the house with vinyl records from the 1980s, but they simply didn't have the subbass frequencies of today. No one had a subwoofer speaker in their house and anything with lower than 50Hz bass hum would break the cutting lathe at the vinyl pressing plant. Today, club music and club and festival speakers can play sub bass as 30Hz or even lower and EDM creators often include sub bass that wouldn't even be audible on 1980s systems, if it could have even been pressed on vinyl.
@@AutPen38 I understand there is a lot more sub bass these days, but I would argue people had better stereos in their homes back in the 80's than most people do these days. My set of 15" speakers definitely cranked out the bass better back then than the 2" Bluetooth speakers most people have in their homes nowadays. Musicians have nice stereos, no one else does... So in the end, all of that low end is still lost outside of clubs, just for different reasons. That's why saturators and tape emulators are so popular today, they make the bass heard on tiny speakers. So yes, sub bass was cut from vinyl, but there was plenty of low end live and on record.
DAW ó sequencer hardware ???????????????????????????
you look like matchbox retail carton :x)
I'm a Matchbox-man.
Don’t sidechan bass full stop please
Sometimes they did, but not in a pumping french house way. It would be more like, to give a different groove to the bass line, rather than to duck it out of the way of a straight kick.
80s vocal tuning link…you said…?
It's right there at the end of this video. In my series "A song is born" I have a whole video dedicated to vocals done old school.
So in order to sound like the 80s, we should develop talent as singers, rather than counting on robots to fix our vocals? Who'da thunk? 🤣
Most importantly Listen to 70s punk ...all our favorite synth bands were very into punk disco and Kraft werk ..synth music needs that punky bite or else its boring and lifeless
Problem now is people have so many synths and it has become about gear rather than the music, no innovation or creativity anymore, a case of so many synths so little talent
My latest live stream is just about that.
Another tip, keep your band to no more than two or three members! Consider one or more being female, good looking and great at singing and dancing! 😁
Bass errors are prevailing these days and they are really horrendous - all these songs with grotesque 50Hz-60Hz cranky subs with even snares being bassy. And yes, problems with over-compressed, over-reverberated walls of sound, when even a pop song sounds like a druggy ilk of shoegaze.
Anyway, it is impossible to reproduce real 80s sound these days, because many producers are very afraid of 80s poor sound with 110Hz cuts, shabby cassette rustles, impoverished synths/samplers and so on.
BTW, 80s were not all the way shiny, and some records had been very terribly produced - check, Daryl Hall & John Oates - "I Can't Go For That", for example, it sounds like the worst type of Bandcamp twentysomething lo-fi indie. Then, Wang Chung's 1985 album "To Live and Die in L.A." - it sounds very poor. And so many other examples.
Any brilliant examples? I have been listening to Raindancing (1987) by Alison Moyet this winter - remastered/deluxe version and, Gosh!, it sounds incredible - can be used as the reference album by producers and audio engineers!
so you could use none of these tips and sound 80s as f**k! and you can use all these tips and make modern music! thanks a lot!
If you use all of these tips you will definitely not sound modern. ;-)
@@EspenKraft I would love to prove you wrong but I don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying around to implement some of your tips
Stop tweaking pots on a old and awful arpeggio
All you need is bad reverb drowning the snare. If your drums sound like they were recorded in a trash dumpster, Your ready for the 80s.
Using a fretless bass is a good move too.
No.
About the analog vs digital synth thing, depends what year of the 80s you're going for. Popular music - and music technology - changed so much over that decade that a general statement like that isn't necessarily true. And as for reverbs, I noticed that using good emulations of the reverbs that were used back then - eg. the RMX or the 224 - goes a long way to getting that eighties vibe into a mix.
Love the Overlook hotel carpet shirt btw.
You noticed. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Somehow that shirt seems more 70'ies .. at least the colors 😄
The Shining was released in early 1980 so it was at least partly made during the 70s. ;-)
@@EspenKraft1978-1979
No autotune ever please. In my 60’s and I can still out sing 90% of the modern artists today, autotune not required. Great tips my friend!
Cheers!
Thanks! 80s heavy snares. For me the 80s sound is cheap analog synths(junos) , digitals dx7, ppg etc..combined with sample sounds from an emu. Sometimes my softsynth collection is to big. Choise stress, so i give myselfs a limited numbers of synths to use. For example: uvi emu2( max 8 outputs), korg polysix and monopoly,arturia dx7, roland juno 60 and a spark drum kit. 2 reverbs from arturia, one delay and a compressor and eq. I have to do with that in one track incl.selfmade sound effects recorded as audio or sample. Ofcourse in cubase .
Yeah, that Spark Drum is wonderful.
Here’s one to add. Let me know your thoughts.. record straight audio out of your synths. No midi - get the sound a land go for it. Plus, you get more practice trying to do a good “keeper” take. Not everything (like midi drums or tight bass) but give it a shot on a chord progression or lead! And yes, NO autotune.
It's basically what I meant. Most of my tracks are still recorded by hand, straight out. (Unless I'm doing a MIDI demo, or working for clients.)
That top is so Atari.
I second all of Espen's comments (I was there too!). I will add to his 'no Autotune' rule that you could, where appropriate, double-track vocals - and occasionally instruments- the old-fashioned way by recording them twice. Also, thank you Espen for setting the record straight regarding gated reverb and long reverb tails.
Cheers!
I sequence most of my hardware with either my Linn 9000 or MSQ-70 and a few Garfield interface boxes especially for non MIDI devices