Ellie: I remember my first week just gorging myself. Stuffing food in all my pockets like it is gonna run out. Dina: I saw that. Ellie: No you didn't. Dina: I did I remember thinking who is this string bean stealing all the jerky?
@@sapphixated - She actually says, "I didn't steal that much jerky." Not trying to be a jerk, just sharing it with you because I had to watch that particular convo again for myself (I think you peeps like details like I do!). 😊 Here's the clip I watched: ua-cam.com/video/2f0NVilN7jI/v-deo.html
[end of the season spoilers and a long-ass comment lmao] I'm sad and kinda surprised you guys didn't like this episode. I actually thought it was well done in how it handled all the character moments and different dynamics that came along with Tommy and Joel's reunion, Joel's lingering bad reputation in Tommy/Maria's eyes, and Joel's PTSD playing a larger role in why he doesn't want to continue traveling w/ Ellie (which I think is smart for a tv show, bc to a non-gamer audience, Joel just being stubborn again like he was in the earlier episodes isn't a good enough reason to push her away, layers of emotion are important to show in your characters). The episode better highlighted Ellie's attachment to Joel and how isolated she felt even in a 'safe haven' like Jackson, with Maria and Tommy judging Joel for his past but Ellie being the only one to stick up for him bc she feels like they're a team (which she tries to mention in that confrontation scene). Maria was 'weird' bc she only knew Joel thru what Tommy was telling her, and since we learn she's very motherly and sees this 'violent man' traveling with a young girl, she's trying to warn her. It makes sense why she's more distrusting of Joel here than in the game, as the show delved deeper into how much Tommy drifted apart from Joel mentally after their years of being hunters, and Tommy not wanting to contact Joel thru the radio to protect his new family with Maria rather than his own brother. Then the whole scene of Joel finally opening up to Tommy was definitely a necessary scene before building up to Ellie and Joel's confrontation, bc we know Ellie's feelings abt Joel already, but the audience doesn't yet know that Joel wants to give up Ellie. Since epi 1 we've known that Joel has been looking for Tommy bc he feels that it's his purpose to protect his family, a theme that's being emphasized 100x more in the show than in the game with every single side-character plotline. It's the whole reason for Bill's flashback and letter saying "That's why men like you and me are here", which spoke to Joel specifically bc he believes it wholeheartedly. The fact that Joel in the show was purposely looking for Tommy in order to 'save him', while game Joel didn't care for years and then just randomly stumbled across him, shows that he has a slightly different characterization; the way he was Sarah's protector, and then wanted to be one for Tommy, Tess, and now Ellie. In general, Joel breaking down in front of Tommy bc he's dealing with his failure of protecting Tess, jealousy toward Tommy's new life, and the PTSD of constantly thinking abt how he failed Sarah is deepening his reasons for wanting to save Ellie in the end, even more than just wanting a replacement daughter, but bc she gives him a new sense of purpose. It wouldn't make sense for his stubbornness to be what pushes him away from Ellie bc he's already stated to her many times (even at the campfire this episode) that he feels the need to protect her; it's just that his physical condition is making him have valid doubts that he can fulfill that purpose anymore for both Ellie and Tommy, which is why being around Tommy is now making him more emotional than we've ever seen him. Then leading into the confrontation scene right after that emotional scene feels more earned. In the movie screening room, we get the shot of Ellie looking around for Joel and then she watches Tommy leave the room bc she's been away from Joel for a whole day, and she's suspicious that he's going to talk to Joel. So she follows Tommy and we see a shot of her walking toward Joel and Tommy's location. The confrontation confirms that Ellie was there to hear what was said, but we don't need to see her stand there and listen if the scene needed to focus on Joel's emotions during his and Tommy's conversation. The lead-in to the confrontation scene is way more practical this way than the whole 'Ellie running away' thing that happens in the game which was just added for more gameplay time; it would've come off as more juvenile than how Ellie really is. Plus, instead of Joel resolving the conflict after a 10-minute horse ride like in the game, Joel had a whole night to sleep off his emotions and decide to give Ellie the choice to show that he still cares abt her, which makes much more sense in this context. I've seen a lot of other gamers feeling like things were rushed, but I honestly don't feel that at all, especially if you really think abt how much gameplay was cut out and character moments had to be added to make the episode have a continuous story. While gamers are used to the lengthy gameplay aspect of the university, there's not much to do plot-wise with them going thru that area anyways. The show just needs to let the audience know that the Fireflies left, they're likely in Utah, and Joel and Ellie were attacked by a mysterious group- they even left in a lot of moments like riding on Callus, Joel mentioning wanting to be a singer, the football conversation, and the dialogue abt the monkeys. And realistically a group of 4 ppl without guns is gonna be easy to hide from and avoid, so Joel and Ellie wouldn't be getting in a 20-minute fight against them. Anyways, I loved the changes this episode made and I felt like it improved on certain character motivations in a way that makes much more sense to me than how it panned out in the game.
Wow all i can say is, that you nailed the explanation and i agree in all your points. I feel the exact same way you did about the Episode and i loved the changes they did to highlight the Characters. i also think that especially the people who played the Game tend to forget how the Gameplay affected the Story, like you pointed out with the University. When you cut out the Gameplay parts they isn´t much left to show and that is exactly what they did, Joel and Ellie arriving see that the Fireflies left already and where they allegedly are going to be, what else you need to show? And about all that what happened when Joel finally finds Tommy to Joel and Ellie leaving, i just say because otherwise it would end in a very long paragraph ^^, that i see it exactly like you described and i loved it the way they did it because it adds much more weight to the Characters involved and the Decision they make.
@@stevesoundheart221 thank you! yepp, it's so impressive how the changes they made added new depth and challenges to the relationships between all the characters involved.
I like too add something because i saw it in another comment section. It´s about why Joel is so "angry" in the beginning at Tommy because he thinks Tommy is in trouble for not answering the Radio for Weeks. That he didn´t had to search for a Battery, he didn´t had to take up on Ellie and of course Tess Death, all the things he did and experienced to get to Tommy just to find out that his Brother was absolutely fine and living his best Life since the Outbreak and that all of it could have been avoided if Tommy had just said that he´s okay. It makes sense why Joel reacted the way he did and why the Scene where he opens up to Tommy was so important not just for Joel but also for Tommy because it showed him that his big Brother is just a Human too with fears and worrys. And i feel that you could see at the end that both of them got closer again after that talk and that both needed that for different Reasons.
Can't say I necessarily agree with you on the pacing. These events all happen close to each other in the game, but they are buffered by so much gameplay that it makes it seem further apart. Fighting at the dam, the search for Ellie where you fight a bunch of random raiders, then fighting infected and raiders at the university. Those events really don't add much to the plot and in my opinion were rightfully cut. Also, I'm not sure if seeing Ellie hear the conversation between Tommy and Joel would've really added much. We already could tell she was eager to get back to Joel based on her behavior while the movie was playing and her looking for him in the street. I think it makes sense to imply that she would've overheard their conversation if she was out looking for him. Then for her to hear that Joel was ready to get rid of her after she defended him and was eager to see him again makes sense that she would react the way she did. Just my opinion though. Loving the show so far.
Interesting how our reactions to this one are different, I’m a massive fan of the game and I personally loved this episode and it’s one of my favourites, I actually prefer some of the ways they did the story here more than the game and thought that Ellie and joel conversation made more sense here since they bonded way more in comparison to how joel was still keeping Ellie at a distance in the game
Agreed. I think at this point they should be a bit more careful about comparing game to show so much while watching bc they’re expecting certain scenes/dialogue and then get disappointed about the direction the writers chose. Personally I absolutely loved the flushing out of the dynamic between Joel/ Tommy - I cried at that last one hearing how much Joel struggles internally.
@@Taewills me too! Like yeah the parts with Joel and Tommy were nice and all but in comparison to this… there wasn’t as much there at all. Not as emotional, maybe the only thing that’s more emotional in the game with Tommy and Joel is Tommy trying to give Joel the photo of him and Sarah and Joel refusing but that’s it really. I thought all the Tommy and Joel scenes hit way harder here. Like I said as well I also think the Ellie and Joel iconic argument makes way more sense with them having a bigger emotional connection by this point now as well. Joel wasn’t acting much different yet in the game, so Ellie being so attached to Joel now makes that argument even stronger. I adore both the game and the show and I find it easier while watching to just not compare unless I find something cool, I like to see them both as separate things or expansions in a way and it makes it more enjoyable to watch personally.
@@clover2739i think y’all are forgetting that we had A LOT of time-skips in the game with joel and ellie, so ofc we didn’t see every moment they have bonded. the good thing about the show is that they had to fill those moments out, because it’s not a game so there’s no gameplay, which means they had a lot more time to work on character & relationship development and depth. if the game didn’t have time-skips, it would be unbelievably long. i’m just saying cuz y’all act like game joel started caring about ellie like a daughter out of nowhere without much bonding, which isn’t true at all. (sorry if there’s any mistakes, my english is pretty bad)
@@queenc9570 this is wild because this comment was a year ago, I’m Not forgetting anything I just liked the show version since it made more sense from the bonding that we seen in comparison to the show with Joel being more open. I wasn’t really that serious with putting down game Joel, it was just my own personal preference. I haven’t forgotten anything lol
I think the showrunners trusted the audience enough to know that when Ellie follows Tommy outside she's clearly looking for Joel. For me it would have been almost too soap opera like had we seen her hear that conversation. A little trust in your audience is good.
I think this was one of the best episodes so far and Joel should get an award for this episode, showing his volubility with his brother was a very emotional and heartfelt scene. I couldn't disagree with you guys more with your review on this one.
It only felt rushed because it's missing the gameplay. There's surprisingly little story beats of the game. There's only like 2 hours total of cutscene plus key gameplay dialog. It just feels more because we played as Joel and that's how the game cheats to build our connection to the characters. We don't actually need Ellie to run away and us spend an hour or two fighting random bandits to serve the same story.
This is the most vulnerable we’ve seen from both Joel and Ellie yet. We know watching from Joel the desperation to close himself off to preserve whatever humanity he doesn’t want to lose yet and him breaking down in front of Tommy is indicative of how much he’s barely keeping it together, how this dam he built up for himself is breaking apart the more he gets closer to his new surrogate daughter. Ellie, on the other hand, is a whole different kettle of fish. This is where her abandonment issues begin to boil over the more she loses her innocence; between being orphaned by her parents, being pawned off by Marlene, losing Riley, Tess, Henry and Sam, now she has to watch her father figure pawn her off and abandon her too? This girl can’t catch a damn break; it breaks my heart when she repeatedly tells him “Don’t leave me alone”.
FYI Graham Greene who played the husband in the opening scene also played Chief Rains Fall in Red Dead Redemption 2 and that's all I can hear when he speaks!
I love that the game mechanic of getting better equipment as you level up is preserved in the show: Ellie's got enough XP now that she can get a diva cup, instead of having to scrounge for tampons.
Not rushed at all. Didn't need the video game bait of Ellie running away. Them going to find her. Ensuing battle. That's just video game combat. Not cinema. The same goes for the university. Joel falling onto a rebar is unrealistic. For a 56 years old man to have survived. He's not a superhero. This episode was Joel centric. His doubts at being able to protect Ellie. Him conflating Ellie with Sarah to Tommy. When he said he fails her every time. But the follow up lines gives context that he was talking about Ellie. He already views her as his daughter. At that moment he couldn't accept it. The flash of him and Sarah dressing the Christmas tree. Is a metaphor for him letting go of Sarah. That's why we see him easily talking about his life pre pandemic on their ride. The next episode will shift from Joel protecting Ellie to Ellie protecting Joel. This series isn't a literal interpretation of the game.
Our criticisms have nothing to do with the game. We understand the show is going to be different, and that isn't why we were unsatisfied with the episode.
@@sapphixated I surmise from your talk that you two are Ellie centric. Need everything spoken out loud to be confirmed. Not only are Ellie & Joel closer prior to Jackson. Subconsciously he considers her his daughter. His remark about dream of sheep on the moon. Was meshing both of their dreams together. Even though he used sheep rancher just to ribbed Ellie for talking too much. Another clue was when they were surrounded & he was panicking regarding the dog sniffing Ellie. He didn't have a PTSD flashback about Sarah. He was 100% focused on his fear of losing Ellie. There were many more examples pre Jackson and in Jackson as they talked to Tommy & Maria. Also, Tommy & Joel' 2 conversation. Joel is non verbal with his feelings. A nod of his head of approval, standing around the barn for a half hour & especially teaching Ellie to shoot. He finally sees her as she is. Not in the prism of Sarah where he had to protect her from everything. I believe the next episode will be Ellie centric. Especially her emotions regarding Joel. I would ask you to watch the after show podcast. Hosted by Troy Baker. If you still disagree after listening. Then go in peace.
@@phoenixrising8231 I also thought it was really obvious that Ellie felt out of sorts in Jackson town without Joel. She felt unsettled because she was unsure what the plan was. She kept looking around for Joel at the movies and then they also showed her walking down main street searching for him. I don't think we needed a visual of her actually standing right outside the window eavesdropping to understand later that she had found him and heard part of the conversation (repeated some words in confirmation) and felt abandoned and upset. Especially since her main fear is being left alone, left behind.
Love you guys and your deep love for this story. My best friend and me have pretty much locked in for life over our equal love for these games and how it’s told, and the tv show is doing wonders to bring it to a wider audience.
One of the things that had interested me in the version of Joel is the re-emerging of his humanity. During his monologue with Tommy, he mentions that five years earlier, “he would have destroyed that kid.” Not in just a physical way. But in a ruthless and cruel, apathetic way. He couldn’t kill Sam because he couldn’t bring himself to hurt Henry to get to the gun. He is not just afraid that he won’t be physically able to protect Ellie, he is also losing that ruthless and violent part of himself that protected him for so long. We know that the years following outbreak day, they did terrible things to survive. I think the loss of Sarah encouraged Joel to keep his humanity at bay, and it allowed a dark and violent version of himself to emerge. Now there is the kiddo who tells him jokes and cares for him deeply. He is opening himself back up to the world, but also losing that ruthless tendency for himself. I think his fear of failing her is also his fear of getting too close to her. Whether it’s because he his afraid to lose her, or that if he comes back to humanity he will have to face the things he did head on.
It's odd to see people who love the game don't like this episode. I guess the disjointedness came from having to follow Joel and Ellie's different things going on in Jackson. Because in previous episodes it still was "one scene after another" but the difference was Joel and Ellie were always together vs other scenes with either Henry and Sam or Kathleen and Perry. I think a lot of the disappointment is because people who knew the game were expecting the "you're not my daughter" scene to be the emotional high of the episode, but since it came after Joel's monologue (which I think is the actual emotional climax of the episode) it felt a little lackluster when put immediately after that scene (though imo Pedro and Bella killed it). Playing the game, it did take a while to get from meeting Tommy and Maria to Ellie leaving and Joel looking for her to the "you're not my daughter" talk to the University shanking. But because the show can't really justify the raiders entering Jackson, or Ellie running off and having Joel go off to find her, people felt that was "rushed." IDK but this was a more emotion-driven episode for me, with the main fights being the Tommy and Joel bar scene and Ellie defending Joel from Maria's judgment. The focus wasn't Jackson but Ellie's actions that repeatedly reaffirm she has Joel's back and Joel navigating his relationship with Ellie. And Pedro Pascal's performance during that monologue was ridiculously good and made Joel so much more humanized. Because of course how could you spend 3 months with a kid you're responsible for and still be so aloof? Anyway, I do think the university part could have been extended a bit more, but for the purposes of the plot, they did just come for the Fireflies and since they were gone and they figured out where they were going, they'd have no reason to stick around in the building to fight off the raiders, so I can see why it made sense to put the university section in the last minutes of the game. The most important part of University section plot-wise wasn't really the fight, it was Joel's injury. And we got there without having to throw a 56 year old man down 2 stories, which realistically would have killed him lol. [edit[ Also, I love your guys' reactions. I was waiting for this upload lol I didn't know it got stuck in copyright hell. I just got carried away with typing this because I adore the emotional depth of this episode.
Interesting that you felt this episode was weird. I thought it was perfect and it was my favorite of the six. I mean the University scene had little action compared to the game but idk action is the thing that I'm not looking forward that much from this show. They got there, learned where the Fireflies were and then Joel got stabbed for Ellie to take the lead next episode and get the chance to prove herself. Sad that you didn't feel the Joel scenes, they were the best part of the show for me :( He is always angry or just cold and awkward but seeing him express his feelings was huge for me.
Yes same. At the moment of watching it was perfect. After watching game fans reactions and commented differences, I kinda agree that we maybe needed slitly more at university, it went too fast, but that's influenced by game. If you don't know maybe you don't think too much of it. I'll wait till end of season to see how much fighting we have left and if violence is "enough" so I won't mind they cut it here. Also some people thought after the bedroom fight it resolved too fast but honestly we knew two of them would be together again so drawing it out was meaningless.
@@Andjelka99 I played the first game years ago so I don't remember all of it that well. Maybe is just that, I don't have expectations scene by scene of everything that's happening. For me the fight in the bedroom was perfect. Joel already bonded with Ellie, he is just afraid of losing her. Not need to drag out the fight that much.
my issues with the pacing weren't really related to the game, I just think the iconic scene was meant to be the climax but it didn't feel climactic because the tension hadn't been rising enough for me. I think a big piece of the puzzle that I didn't clue into is that Ellie spent all day looking for Joel. I don't know why I didn't realize that at the time, but I think Ellie's perspective on the scene was missing for me, which is why I expressed wishing we had seen her overhear the convo with Joel and Tommy.
@@sapphixated That's understandable, I haven't watched the Podcast yet to know more about what the Showrunners wanted to do but my guess is that they didn't show Ellie so we can focus more on Joel's feelings and what was he saying. In the game Joel is just angry at Tommy. Here he is begging and crying for Tommy to take her so idk this was a Joel episode rather than an episode about Joel and Ellie... I feel your criticism tho, the pace was slightly off (more towards the end) and maybe if we had spent more time in the town a lot of the problems you see would've been solved. Hope both of you can enjoy more the next three episodes. They are setting up everything for the hospital scene. I really want to see what they do with that.
I agree when you said it feels rushed to us who played the game. I've heard other youtubers saying it's rushed, but I don't feel the same... When you watch it carefully, every scene "takes it's time", almost like in slow pace, but those who played the game know every single thing that happened and we want every single thing to happen in the series too. That's why some of us might feel that way.
I think the only part that felt rushed to me was when Joel was stabbed. I really liked the part in the game where you have to escape the university after he's wounded and Ellie proves how capable she is by helping Joel and taking out the hunters. Maybe it wouldn't have worked as well in the show, though.
I don’t feel it’s rushed. The pacing is perfect. The reason why the pacing works in the game is because, there is a lot of unrealistic action that would not translate well into a real life adaptation of a tv series. If you are of the people who feel it’s rushed I suggest you play the game. It’s so funny that people think it’s rushed, when all of the long dramatic cut scenes, recordings, journals, etc,. were followed by unrealistic gameplay.
I was somehow able to watch this last night when it originally uploaded, happy to see it's back! I appreciate your perspective here and on TikTok - this was the most fanservice-y episode for sure (DINA, SHIMMER, A SHEEP FARM ON THE MOON), and I thought Pedro's monologue was beautiful. It does feel more squashed down for time than previous episodes, and my friends who aren't as familiar with the game said the emotional beats didn't have enough room to breathe. they can't all be gold star winners I guess!
Yeyyy finallyyyy. I was most excited for your reaction out of everyone I watch for this one. Episode was goldmine for part 2 teases aaaaaaaaaa. This season isn't even over and I can't wait for s2
There are two things I look forward in my week: a new tlou episode and your reaction! I've been loving it! Also, I didn't think the pacing was weird in this one, but did think it was for the previous episode. Everything felt rushed, I wish we could've met the brothers more slowly
I'm having a blast seeing all the newbies who are trying to figure out if the show just pulled a Ned Stark on them, because with the way it's gone so far, that's absolutely possible.
I’ve been waiting for your reaction to seeing Dina! I knew you’d both freak out and it made me so happy 😂 I think they were too focused on leaving the audience on a cliffhanger that the whole university section felt rushed. I loved everything in Jackson, but I wished they’d spent the whole episode there. Joel’s injury in the game really takes it’s time and is one of the best moments because of it, including Ellie fighting like hell to get them out of the situation, and I don’t love how all of that was ignored for the sake of cramming it in right at the end?? Weird choice. Anyway, I am OBSESSED with your reactions and I’m so glad UA-cam helped me stumble across this channel. I watched the TLOU2 playthrough a few weeks ago and loved that too. You’re all a joy to watch, keep up the good work, and lots of love from the UK ❤
I get where you’re coming from with the pacing of the show sometimes (regardless of the game), and I agreed at first, but I feel it works a bit better upon second viewing once we have the full picture of the show
As someone who hasn’t played the games, I feel like at this point in the show dragging out more infighting between Ellie and Joel would’ve felt weird to me. I only felt that the ending was a little light compared to earlier episodes. Y’all are my favorite to watch for reacting to this show though. Keep it up 🤟🏾.
I find it interesting that Tommy and Maria might have a kid, that makes me think that Season 2 might focus on abandonment as a theme too. Tommy might leave his Family for revenge just Like Ellie did with Dina. So we have Tommy, Owen, Ellie All abandoning their Children in some way
I feel like the episode was perfectly paced to be honest. Its a lot of the game cramped into one episode, because quite a lot of the gameplay in the related section of the game is so slow and mostly exploration/sneaking gameplay which will never translate over. The University scene also felt really good to me, because the sequence in the game, while dramatic since you are in control of Joel stumbling along listening to the panic in Ellies voice after you fall, thats another part which would not translate well for the average viewer. Same with the whole scene at the Dam, works in gameplay but I dont think it would translate well. I loved this episode as much as the others my self, and think the ending really sets us up for whats to come, which we know will also probably be toned down a little for the general audience.
I found you guys around ep 3, and have loved y'alls talks about it in relation to the games and vice versa! I had one thought of why they decided to have Maria be pregnant in the show, related to the finale. (End spoilers and stuff) I think they decided to have Maria be pregnant so when Joel tells Tommy about what he did to the Fireflies to save Ellie, he won't think Joel is losing it. Tommy feels bad about the murders he and Joel did to survive, so I think if he wasn't soon to be a dad then he wouldn't really be able to wrap his head around why Joel would go absolutely ape on a whole facility of people.
I'm so torn! I don't want spoilers but I want to hear what you have to say.. I'm glad to see you're alright after last week though. I was legit concerned about you.
this was a joel centric episode and i loved seeing what was going on behind the scenes for him. wish we got some of the panic attack/anxiety seeds planted in the last episode or two because they almost come out of nowhere but i guess during the conversation between joel and tommy he does hint that its been happening for a while and that this is really his breaking point. the whole conversation really hit hard because we never think of joel as an "emotional" guy as he never projects his true emotions and has been completely closed off since sarah died o to see him completely vulnerable and desperate was very difficult. i like the almost contrast between how maria and tommy has a memorial for sarah, someone who maria never even met yet joel still can't even hear the name without flinching and putting his hands into a fist which , again, for me added another layer to just how messed up joel really is. i also thought it was a very touching scene where joel sees the girl with the hair that looks like sarahs. another reminder of what joel has lost and how he will never have that. all he has is an idea or a fantasy of a life that could've been and that was so sad to watch the scene in the bedroom didn't hit as hard as it did in the game and it felt a little stiff ? bella and pedro are incredible actors, no doubt about it, however that scene lacked the emotional depth i feel like it should've got and it also had no consequences because two minutes later they reunite and leave together and never talk about it again as far as we know whereas in the game it felt like a much much more pivotal moment. i loved the easter eggs from part 2 and the dina cameo made me jump from excitement because of part 2 and i really hope they give her a big part in season 2 as other than joel she is probably the closest person to ellie and their relationship was such a great storyline. for representation and other reasons. the university stuff only had about 10 minutes of screen time however i felt like they used it well to set up that the fireflies had once again moved somewhere, there were clues as to where they were going and possibly even why they left. the stabbing however... that should've had way more screen time and shouldn't have just been the last 3 minutes of the episode and it definitely felt almost random even though we as people who have seen/played the game know, that it had to happen somehow and this was the way they chose to do it. maybe if they had cut out some bits from the very beginning or just extended the episode by like 15 minutes like they did with episode 1 and 3. idk.. either way im excited to see where they take us next as there are only 3 episodes left in the show but im also totally not ready to say goodbye to the show just yet because god knows when season 2 will even start pre production, not to mention filming so we might have to wait a while lol
Joel's panic attacks weren't in earlier episodes bc that was when Joel and Ellie were first starting to bond and learning to rely on each other. then there's the 3 months time skip, which is a long time to bond, and is probably when he began to feel even more scared for her safety which started triggering his PTSD. I definitely don't think the confrontation scene was stiff at all. Their delivery just felt more realistic, in the sense that their voices aren't as animated sounding bc they're not being mo-capped. It also definitely had the same emotional depth, it's just that the context due to the moments and characterizations of Joel and Ellie are different leading up to that scene. The way it pans out in the game is how you described the show- the confrontation happens and then a 20-second horse riding montage later, Joel suddenly reunites with her and they never mention it again. In the show tho, Joel actually has the whole night to sleep off his emotions and has a longer time to decide that he wants to give Ellie the choice, to be fairer to her and show he cares. It was still a pivotal moment, just probably not as much of an emotional gut-punch as you might remember it in the game bc it follows the emotions of Joel's conversation with Tommy right before.
@@beccazach maybe i don’t remember the moment in the game as much then. i thought there was more time in there so you’re probably right about that !! i’m not sure what i was expecting from that conversation and like i said i think they’re incredible actors but it was just lacking something for me. maybe “stiffness” isn’t the right word for it. maybe if we saw some of the 3 month period in more detail, especially after what happened with henry and sam, it would’ve made it more impactful. i really don’t know. i did love the episode as a whole and despite having so much stuff in it i thought it was well paced apart from the very very ending. also i get the acting in the show being different than in the game so that wasn’t my problem at all !!
I'm a little surprised that you two didn't enjoy this episode! But honestly, it's all good. Personally, I am still liking the story choices that the showrunners have made, but I can certainly understand where you two are coming from. Because I feel like there are fans of the game who are pulled into similar camps as you two, in regards to liking/disliking the flow of the story, differences between the source material and the show, etc. And HELLS YEAH that was Dina! I was almost as happy to see her (but still NOWHERE nearly as amped as Jude was) when me and my friends were watching this episode for the first time! Still enjoying your reactions, especially since I am just another cis-het dude...LOL! (Seriously, I actually enjoy the queer perspective you two are dropping on each episode. It's very helpful with my own personal deprogramming from the patriarchy.) Until next episode! (Spoken in the same tone and voice as the campus dean of Mars University from that episode of "Futurama".) "Contractorrrrrrrr!" 😄
I’m just realizing this now: if Mariah is a few months along in her pregnancy, then that means tommy and maria with have a toddler in part 2, adding to tommys’ story and giving him another reason to not go to seattle
Game brain and expectations. Honestly, I wish I could turn it off. I sometimes envy those watching who haven't played the game; I watch this with a couple of people who haven't played it and they had no issues because they had no awareness of the compression, whereas I did.
I personally loved this episode and I am one the biggest last of us fans out there, I believe the iconic scene made more sense in the series than in the game 🙂 and dont get me wrong they both were absolutely great 🙂
What a great great episode. Bella and Piedro killing it. The reason why Joel doesn't teach Ellie much or let her do it things is that she wouldn't be cargo anymore. Such things create a mutual connection that Joel did not want until then. He doesn't want to give her the option to take care of him. Just like Sarah did back then. I mean she did the housekeeping, made sure he wore his shirt the right way around ect. The campfire scene was not in the game, but was originally supposed to be included. Druckman said he can now finally show more through the series than was possible in the game. At the end of the game, only a concept art remains of the campfire scene. Joel to Ellie: "Dream of sheep ranches on the moon." This sentence says so much. Joel already connects Ellie's dreams with his. Ellie drank from Joel's liquor and it was "STILL gross". That was a callback to the DLC. Next episode Ashley Johnson (Game Ellie) will properly get an appearance in the Ellie Flashback (Game DLC). Ellie was no different to Kathleen. The only difference lies in the social size of the immediate environment. Both lost an important person, both wanted revenge at all costs. For both of them, their revenge was more important than their friends and loved ones. Both didn't care about the colleteral damage. Both tortured. For Ellie, all the Wolfs were just as guilty as Abby, justifying to Dina her murder tour through the country. Both were willing to kill children or accept them as colleteral damage. After Ellie killed a pregnant woman, she still wasn't ready to stop. So she willingly and knowingly accepted more dead pregnant women. Finally, she held a knife to a boy's throat to force Abby to fight. Abby never did anything like that. Her revenge focused on one person. There was no colleteral damage. Only when her friends died, it went on. She let Ellie go a second time. Ellie couldn't help it. So Ellie is 100% equal to Kathleen, not Abby. I am not justifying or excusing any of the 3 people in their actions. I'm just saying that the comparison between Kathleen and Abby has huge gaps. I couldn't stand Kathleen at all. There was zero sympathy for her in me. I love Ellie, Joel and Ellie equally.
there's definitely parallels between Kathleen and Abby as well. Abby compromised all her relationships in her pursuit of revenge and suffered dire consequences when she did get it. there can be similarities without the stories being the exact same. Ellie and Abby have strong parallels as well. it's the same story being told in slightly different ways.
@@sapphixated I don't deny that. That are the points that all have in common. These are things with which they punish themselves. The sacrifices they make to their souls. But the actions at the expense of others are significant.
I think the "choice" he gave Ellie was a cop out. He disguised him not being able to let Ellie go as giving her a choice between him and Tommy, because he knew Ellie would choose him.
But he also knew he really hurt her last night and Ellie isn't above doing something just to get back at Joel. I think he hoped she would choose him and maybe knew it, but there's a slight part of him that was probably a little nervous she wouldn't. I still think regardless it was nice that he used the word choice because Ellie hasn't really had one her whole life. She's just sort of been tossed around.
I had an initial reaction to this episode similar to yours. I rewatched and changed my mind. I think why the moment in this episode initially felt less impactful than in the game is the amount of time we had to sit with the feeling of Joel’s harsh words to Ellie, they took a long slow ride plus there was the fact that she ran away and we had to chase her down, it just let the whole pain sit and fester for a much longer time, I agree that maybe this should have been a ten episode season and break this episode into two, let the viewer have to wait a week feeling the rift between Joel and Ellie. It felt rushed to me too, but after watching first timers watch and rewatching myself, It doesn’t bother me any more. A lot happens in the episode which makes it a great television episode. Just my thoughts.
This is the episode that pedro got nominated for an emmy for 👏🏻. I was so upset that he got hurt, definitely thought joel died at the end. Why the hell didnt they stay in the classroom until the raiders left!? Cuz they thought they’d steal the damn horse?? The horse is gonna go bye bye anyways lol
Like you, I also had the feeling that this episode felt rushed, and was a little puzzled by it. It was after watching reactors who haven't played the game get wrecked by this episode, that I realized what it was. Those of us who have played the game will remember in this series of events: a shootout at the dam, Joel and Tommy searching for Ellie after she runs off with a horse, a shootout with raiders in the house after the emotional talk with Ellie, infected in the college and the dorms, and then battling the raiders while Joel is wounded after falling on rebar. It is a long, action-filled gauntlet, which this series is largely de-emphasizing, but it leads to plot-points that feel earned through struggle, even though they don't really relate to that struggle: let's face it, the action set-pieces are what gets us "back on the stick," but they rarely advance the plot. So HBO viewers are just following the plot, while gamers might think it feels rushed because they remember it taking longer. Neither is wrong, per-se, but that's the big difference, I think.
Me when they reached Jackson: :') Me when they enter the hall: ;_; Me when they show Dina: T_T Me when they show Shimmer: OH MY FUCKING GOD STOP! Damn TLoU 2 PTSD. The amount of Part 2 and future Part 1 references & foreshadowing in this episode were insane. And yeah, Joel gave Ellie a choice, something the Fireflies did not. By the way, check the red & blue pin line on the map. :) Ellie finds out about Sarah from Maria in the game too though, it was just off camera when Joel talked to Tommy. Personally this was my favorite episode, with 5 being the worst for me.
He gave her a choice here to foreshadow him not giving her a choice later. All the adults Ellie trusts are going to fail/betray her. Maria's comment about being careful who you put your faith in foreshadows that as well.
@@Dark__Thoughts no, but it was he who stole her away and lied to her for two years🤷🏼♀️ not gonna get into a debate of Joel vs fireflies, the point is that were both in the wrong.
When they're up on the ridge and Joel says he doesn't know how the dam works, it reminds me of tlou2 when sniping-flashback Tommy says he doesn't know how seasonal infected herds work. I wonder if that was an intentional thing. That aside, kinda sad the bedroom scene didn't hit as hard as the game and the impale scene wasn't as intense. A decent episode, but it felt a little lacking or maybe rushed.
Something that has become clearer for me watching this again, is that the character foils for Joel in the game so far (Bill and Henry) have been flipped. In the game, Bill acted as a warning for what Joel could become if he keeps shutting people out and prioritising survival. Bill is the extreme - you'll end up bitter and alone. Henry represents the quashing of childhood and innocence in Sam. Which is the same thing that could happen with Joel and Ellie if he keeps shutting her out. But in the show, both of these cautionary tales are instead presented more as possible bids for the hope and connection that come with letting people in. It's essentially accomplishing the same thing, just from a different perspective.
Hell even Tommy's partner in the Fireflies Eugene left them and he seemed like a true believer so it's pretty obvious they were splintering long before Marlene found out about Ellie. Even if Joel hadn't of one man army-ed the remainder of the SLC Fireflies I think they would have fallen apart. They already had a rep in many circles of the surviving population as liars and fakes. When 2 warriors like Tommy and Eugene quit and groups like WLF form up it's pretty obvious they were not what they claimed.
Great job girls tlou 1/2 are the best games on the ps4 can't wait for the next episode. It comes out at 2am Monday in the UK well worth staying up for.
I think playing as her in the past 4 years more before golf match would've help the game so so much. General gamer would've connected more then having her drop in suddenly. Have her revenge, then do everything same and start play as Abby again Seattle day one
55:47 “Maria is weird.” How? You care to explain this? Because all I see is a competent leader who is willing to care for Ellie and is starting a family. So I’m left with one conclusion.
I later said that I didn't feel she was weird because of the actress. it was the writing. also when I said that I was specifically thinking of the scene where she casually dropped the bomb without Sarah, I didnt elaborate cuz the conversation continued, but the writing in that scene felt contrived. It had nothing to do with Rutina's casting, i was stoked to see her
@@sapphixated Isn't that what happens in the game, though? Maria tells Ellie off screen about Sarah, in some private conversation between the two of them. How would it even come up? Here we had the two memorial candles, showing that the memory of Kevin and Sarah are being kept alive. Ellie and Maria both noted it, and the conversation flowed from there.
@@annemoore3590 as I said... the writing in the scene felt contrived to me. I was hoping they'd find a cleverer way to do it since I always thought it was always a strange plot point in the game as well.
Definitely agree with your post-reaction discussion, it has grown on me though over the past couple days. The way it was adapted I definitely missed Tommy recognizing that Joel is unable to communicate it but he's afraid of getting close to Ellie with the chance that he'll lose her. Although Pedro did a great job in the super vulnerable scene. Also missed Ellie recognizing Joel wasn't going to abandon her but it makes sense she was given the choice since he already hurt her.
It's probably also added to contrast with how the Fireflies don't give Ellie the choice to sacrifice herself or not, and Joel takes away the opportunity for her to save others (via a cure) like she wanted by killing all the doctors and forcibly removing her from the facility.
I loved the Joel and Ellie scene but I do have to say I wish they would have had more of it. Like the mighty thin ice comment and such. It was shorter than I think it should have been. But it was still a great scene.
The unifying element, from scene to scene here really is Joel's trauma, isn't it? That seems like the reason why the show feels so different. In the game you really take for granted the fact that Joel's a murder machine who is just scared to get close to Ellie and the experience of inevitable loss -- not a guy doubting his own abilities that will be the cause of loss. The Big Scene here wasn't at all the one with Ellie, but the one just before with Tommy where Joel is recounting traumatic event after traumatic event. "I saw a man kill his little brother, stood by and did nothing" -- just before asking Tommy to do this dangerous journey to the university. I think what would have really made this episode work is if they had honed in on Ellie quietly having trauma from the journey as well that Joel had not yet picked up on. E.g. "Tess died alone." "I was in that car with a clicker and thought I was going to die alone." "I fell asleep and Sam turned... alone." "When I go to sleep I wonder if you're still going to be there when I wake up - that's secretly why I want to take watch." Etc. And they might have driven home the point that, ultimately, Joel IS necessary because of their shared experience -- only he, at this point, can make her feel like she has someone who cares about her. He gets her jokes. He knows her history. He had chances to abandon her and didn't. And then they could go further to visually demonstrate Ellie's trauma in some way E.g. have her have a flashback to the clicker horde while in the uncomfortable closer quarters movie theater. E.g. Maria holds the scissors to cut Ellie's hair from behind and she briefly envisions Brian's knife, E.g. a dream sequence/flashback (that you assume is Joel's at first) of Henry shooting an infected Sam, then cutting back to Henry's reaction holding the gun, but it's not Henry at all, but Ellie holding the gun, in the room, by herself, alone. She panicks, only to have Joel, watching over, wake her up from her sleep. There is a conflict between having to establish Ellie as independently strong throughout, but then also developing her emotional breadth. So far, they've made Ellie an adventurous badass, going off by herself more than once, but they haven't really reinforced the notion that she feels fear or is traumatized at all. No Joel going off by himself to find a pallette-raft leaving Ellie on the shore. No awkward separation pairing Ellie with Henry and reunion. The Big Scene really falls flat. "The truth is I would only feel more scared" just doesn't really pay off anything we've seen so far in the show to indicate that Ellie has felt that way, deeply. She demonstrates that she's capable and curious and is proud of herself, but not that she is especially emotional about anything. Like, maybe if they had shown Ellie's perspective & visage when she tells Joel "I don't want to talk about it." re: having shot someone before or Ellie's perspective walking away from Tess & the burning building or the graves & Joel holding the shovel. I think they could have had Joel quietly come to a realization that she is dealing with abandonment issues (like, maybe to close the door after their fight only to peak back in at some point to see her crying/hyperventilating) and then realize that the way to not fail her is to not abandon her -- even if that brings him closer to another tragic loss. It really does feel like they cut some scenes out, doesn't it?? Maybe we'll get that Ellie-depth in the next one and it'll help make this one feel less rushed in retrospect? Thanks for the honesty in your reaction! & effort to re-upload multiple times. I really appreciate it.
I actually akipped parts of the intro when i thought u were talking about second game (u said u prob skipped to reaction so we are warning here lol). I watch reaction videos where someone says they are about to mention game 2 so skip ahead 30 seconds if u dont wanna hear. I think that was a good way to do it, so i could still enjoy the rest of the reaction video.
I felt off about the "big scene" as well, but for me it was more of a tonal issue than a pacing one. That's probably my favorite scene in the original game so I'm doing my best to distance myself from the deviation of the *exact* vocal performance from Troy/Ashley, but in the game Joel comes into that room angry and frustrated at Ellie for going off on her own and with the 1-2 punch of Ellie mentioning Sarah it feels appropriate when Joel lashes out with "you're right, you're not my daughter." But here, he enters sad and defeated having just had a conversation where he himself was comparing his and Ellie's relationship to that of his daughter he failed to protect. "You're not my daughter" just feels overly harsh and spiteful out of nowhere. There are elements of the toned-down university scene that I actually quite prefer for the sake of this adaptation, though. The fact that a single combatant once again snuck up on Joel and he came away injured just reinforces the fears and vulnerabilities he expressed to Tommy earlier in the episode, and a prolonged combat where he dispatches a bunch of guys may have clashed with that (and Ellie's time to shoulder more of the load is literally what this injury is meant to setup so having her step up in a big combat would have just diminished what's to come).
Nicely put. I think that's the reason, difference in Joel's emotional state before he entered the room. They brushed over it on the podcast too, to be exact they mentioned mighty thin ice line and why it was changed
well said! that's what I identified about that scene too. I was wondering if they were going to have a falling out of sorts to spurn that scene but nothing really happened between them before that. part of the reason why I wished we had seen Ellie overhear the conversation
I know yall gave spoiler warning and all, but I kind of expected spoilers on what we've seen so far, and how it was in the game and etc. I didn't expect a full on "Joel will eventually do ____ at the end of the game" in like the intro...
We literally opened the video saying we will talk about the first game, second game and everything else. I'm sorry but we have given more than enough warning and we labeled the intro as intro and discussion. What more can we do to make it clear that we talk about the last of us in it's entirety?
Y’all didn’t do anything wrong, I mean, you did say spoiler warning lol. It’s just… spoilers usually work differently? Like for example, when game of thrones was happening, and books were seasons ahead, when people said “we will discuss the book”, we’d “review”; never really “preview”. Like someone will go, “oh wow Aria is supposed to have her wolf with her in the books”. But rarely, if ever, someone will go, “Oh that’s the sword Aria will use to kill the mountain one day! Cool”. So while you clearly warned us and therefore it’s my own fault, I just assumed the spoilers would follow the usual method of “review” and didn’t foresee y’all seeing something and going, “Oh wow that’s a really good parallel to the decision Joel will do at the end of _____”. @_@ Like I’ve never seen someone go, “Oh Pedro Pascal is the Viper? Cool. Oh he’s talking about how he wanted to see his sister, he’s so obsessed about it no wonder he ends up dying for it”. When people said they’d discuss the source material and spoilers it seldom means things we haven’t even seen or would’ve seen yet, or major plot twists/points. I’ll have to come back to the reactions not only after season is over. Not even after other season is over. But literally once the whole series is done then. Which is sad cuz I love yalls reactions! Cya somewhere in the future!
I thoroughly enjoyed the episode but I do agree with the both of you about the pacing feeling a little weird. With how much it covered it felt like this could have been two episodes, one with them getting to Jackson and a second with them going through the University.
I dont think they needed a whole episode for the university, but it maybe could have happened at the beginning of the next episode instead of crammed in at the end of this one
All love, but I think your takes are weird. There’s no gameplay. Those parts are filled with extra context. Most reactions and reviews are saying this is one of the best episodes. I agree. You’re definitely not with the vast majority.
The problem is to compare everything with the game. You have to think its an adaptation and have his proper dynamic. I dont think its a bad episode at all
I agree about the episode feeling a bit rushed and weird, but this section of the game is also extremely rushed IMO. It just jumps between the major plot points with a bunch of filler combat encounters in-between each scene. My big disappointment here is really that they didn't use the show's format to flesh this stuff out more. Could have given us more time for Joel to change his mind about going their separate ways for example. A single dream sequence didn't do it for me. Tommy becoming a father is going to make his arc in Part 2 a lot more painful I expect.
I agree that the pacing was odd, especially in contrast to the rest of the episodes. Part of it might be that the director of this one ep has never directed an episode of TV before this (she only did films).
This episode had lots of stuff going for it but it but I think it would have been better served if it split into two episodes. Joel and Ellie’s breakup needs some time to breathe before they leave for the college. Just my opinion.
I’m with you on this episode not landing as well, especially that moment. IMO the biggest reason is because while in the game Ellie reads the situation right and the conflict comes from a real rift between the characters, in the show it’s the tired old “partially heard conversation leads to misunderstanding” trope so instead of the conflict feeling real it’s just wasted emotional energy. Also for the pacing, their desire to cram all the additional Jackson material in felt more subtractive than additive to me from a storytelling perspective. Fun easter eggs but not meaningful to the narrative the show is building. Less time fleshing out jackson could have meant more time earning the big beats. Anyways, still having fun watching the show and watching your reactions. Glad to know that I’m somewhat simpatico with some of the biggest TLoU heads doing reaction content on the tubes.
I do kinda agree that this episode felt too rushed and fit too much together. I think they should have done a whole episode with Joel, Ellie, Tommy, Maria and establishing Jackson. Like, maybe even have some flashbacks showing how things were when Joel and Tommy used to be more violent or flashbacks to when they were in Boston together. Then the episode can wrap up when they leave Jackson and the next episode could focus on them going to the university and the university section.
i don't see how it's a spoiler, if you know who Dina is then it's not a surprise and if you don't know who she is, you don't know what you don't know🤷🏼♀️
I just realized that when Joel asks Maria for some time alone with just family that he unconsciously included Ellie! 😢😭❤️❤️ 30:57
Ellie: I remember my first week just gorging myself. Stuffing food in all my pockets like it is gonna run out.
Dina: I saw that.
Ellie: No you didn't.
Dina: I did I remember thinking who is this string bean stealing all the jerky?
YESSS that's why I reacted before we even saw her!!
Wait is this from 2? Really? Don’t remember that dialogue. Wow. Loved the Dina tease we got in this episode. Shimmer too.
Damn - I forgot all about that. That makes this awesome scene several times more awesome-r!
"I didn't steal ALL the jerky..."
@@sapphixated - She actually says, "I didn't steal that much jerky." Not trying to be a jerk, just sharing it with you because I had to watch that particular convo again for myself (I think you peeps like details like I do!). 😊
Here's the clip I watched: ua-cam.com/video/2f0NVilN7jI/v-deo.html
[end of the season spoilers and a long-ass comment lmao] I'm sad and kinda surprised you guys didn't like this episode. I actually thought it was well done in how it handled all the character moments and different dynamics that came along with Tommy and Joel's reunion, Joel's lingering bad reputation in Tommy/Maria's eyes, and Joel's PTSD playing a larger role in why he doesn't want to continue traveling w/ Ellie (which I think is smart for a tv show, bc to a non-gamer audience, Joel just being stubborn again like he was in the earlier episodes isn't a good enough reason to push her away, layers of emotion are important to show in your characters).
The episode better highlighted Ellie's attachment to Joel and how isolated she felt even in a 'safe haven' like Jackson, with Maria and Tommy judging Joel for his past but Ellie being the only one to stick up for him bc she feels like they're a team (which she tries to mention in that confrontation scene). Maria was 'weird' bc she only knew Joel thru what Tommy was telling her, and since we learn she's very motherly and sees this 'violent man' traveling with a young girl, she's trying to warn her. It makes sense why she's more distrusting of Joel here than in the game, as the show delved deeper into how much Tommy drifted apart from Joel mentally after their years of being hunters, and Tommy not wanting to contact Joel thru the radio to protect his new family with Maria rather than his own brother.
Then the whole scene of Joel finally opening up to Tommy was definitely a necessary scene before building up to Ellie and Joel's confrontation, bc we know Ellie's feelings abt Joel already, but the audience doesn't yet know that Joel wants to give up Ellie. Since epi 1 we've known that Joel has been looking for Tommy bc he feels that it's his purpose to protect his family, a theme that's being emphasized 100x more in the show than in the game with every single side-character plotline. It's the whole reason for Bill's flashback and letter saying "That's why men like you and me are here", which spoke to Joel specifically bc he believes it wholeheartedly. The fact that Joel in the show was purposely looking for Tommy in order to 'save him', while game Joel didn't care for years and then just randomly stumbled across him, shows that he has a slightly different characterization; the way he was Sarah's protector, and then wanted to be one for Tommy, Tess, and now Ellie. In general, Joel breaking down in front of Tommy bc he's dealing with his failure of protecting Tess, jealousy toward Tommy's new life, and the PTSD of constantly thinking abt how he failed Sarah is deepening his reasons for wanting to save Ellie in the end, even more than just wanting a replacement daughter, but bc she gives him a new sense of purpose. It wouldn't make sense for his stubbornness to be what pushes him away from Ellie bc he's already stated to her many times (even at the campfire this episode) that he feels the need to protect her; it's just that his physical condition is making him have valid doubts that he can fulfill that purpose anymore for both Ellie and Tommy, which is why being around Tommy is now making him more emotional than we've ever seen him.
Then leading into the confrontation scene right after that emotional scene feels more earned. In the movie screening room, we get the shot of Ellie looking around for Joel and then she watches Tommy leave the room bc she's been away from Joel for a whole day, and she's suspicious that he's going to talk to Joel. So she follows Tommy and we see a shot of her walking toward Joel and Tommy's location. The confrontation confirms that Ellie was there to hear what was said, but we don't need to see her stand there and listen if the scene needed to focus on Joel's emotions during his and Tommy's conversation. The lead-in to the confrontation scene is way more practical this way than the whole 'Ellie running away' thing that happens in the game which was just added for more gameplay time; it would've come off as more juvenile than how Ellie really is. Plus, instead of Joel resolving the conflict after a 10-minute horse ride like in the game, Joel had a whole night to sleep off his emotions and decide to give Ellie the choice to show that he still cares abt her, which makes much more sense in this context.
I've seen a lot of other gamers feeling like things were rushed, but I honestly don't feel that at all, especially if you really think abt how much gameplay was cut out and character moments had to be added to make the episode have a continuous story. While gamers are used to the lengthy gameplay aspect of the university, there's not much to do plot-wise with them going thru that area anyways. The show just needs to let the audience know that the Fireflies left, they're likely in Utah, and Joel and Ellie were attacked by a mysterious group- they even left in a lot of moments like riding on Callus, Joel mentioning wanting to be a singer, the football conversation, and the dialogue abt the monkeys. And realistically a group of 4 ppl without guns is gonna be easy to hide from and avoid, so Joel and Ellie wouldn't be getting in a 20-minute fight against them. Anyways, I loved the changes this episode made and I felt like it improved on certain character motivations in a way that makes much more sense to me than how it panned out in the game.
Wow all i can say is, that you nailed the explanation and i agree in all your points. I feel the exact same way you did about the Episode and i loved the changes they did to highlight the Characters. i also think that especially the people who played the Game tend to forget how the Gameplay affected the Story, like you pointed out with the University. When you cut out the Gameplay parts they isn´t much left to show and that is exactly what they did, Joel and Ellie arriving see that the Fireflies left already and where they allegedly are going to be, what else you need to show? And about all that what happened when Joel finally finds Tommy to Joel and Ellie leaving, i just say because otherwise it would end in a very long paragraph ^^, that i see it exactly like you described and i loved it the way they did it because it adds much more weight to the Characters involved and the Decision they make.
@@stevesoundheart221 thank you! yepp, it's so impressive how the changes they made added new depth and challenges to the relationships between all the characters involved.
Good read and I agree completely. The show didn't need to actually show Ellie listen in because it showed enough for us to know that she did.
I like too add something because i saw it in another comment section. It´s about why Joel is so "angry" in the beginning at Tommy because he thinks Tommy is in trouble for not answering the Radio for Weeks. That he didn´t had to search for a Battery, he didn´t had to take up on Ellie and of course Tess Death, all the things he did and experienced to get to Tommy just to find out that his Brother was absolutely fine and living his best Life since the Outbreak and that all of it could have been avoided if Tommy had just said that he´s okay. It makes sense why Joel reacted the way he did and why the Scene where he opens up to Tommy was so important not just for Joel but also for Tommy because it showed him that his big Brother is just a Human too with fears and worrys. And i feel that you could see at the end that both of them got closer again after that talk and that both needed that for different Reasons.
Damn, this was a helluva read. Thanks for taking the time to share such great insight!
I’m so glad they changed how Joel got hurt. Impaled by rebar is unsurvivable.
Yeah That's just video game logic
Rusted and you get Tetanus and you guarantee a death even if you survive the bleeding
rick grimes did it LMAO (also unbelievable while watching)
Can't say I necessarily agree with you on the pacing. These events all happen close to each other in the game, but they are buffered by so much gameplay that it makes it seem further apart. Fighting at the dam, the search for Ellie where you fight a bunch of random raiders, then fighting infected and raiders at the university. Those events really don't add much to the plot and in my opinion were rightfully cut. Also, I'm not sure if seeing Ellie hear the conversation between Tommy and Joel would've really added much. We already could tell she was eager to get back to Joel based on her behavior while the movie was playing and her looking for him in the street. I think it makes sense to imply that she would've overheard their conversation if she was out looking for him. Then for her to hear that Joel was ready to get rid of her after she defended him and was eager to see him again makes sense that she would react the way she did. Just my opinion though. Loving the show so far.
thanks for your thoughts! I don't think it occured to me that Ellie was trying to get back to Joel. that makes more sense.
Interesting how our reactions to this one are different, I’m a massive fan of the game and I personally loved this episode and it’s one of my favourites, I actually prefer some of the ways they did the story here more than the game and thought that Ellie and joel conversation made more sense here since they bonded way more in comparison to how joel was still keeping Ellie at a distance in the game
Agreed. I think at this point they should be a bit more careful about comparing game to show so much while watching bc they’re expecting certain scenes/dialogue and then get disappointed about the direction the writers chose.
Personally I absolutely loved the flushing out of the dynamic between Joel/ Tommy - I cried at that last one hearing how much Joel struggles internally.
@@Taewills me too! Like yeah the parts with Joel and Tommy were nice and all but in comparison to this… there wasn’t as much there at all. Not as emotional, maybe the only thing that’s more emotional in the game with Tommy and Joel is Tommy trying to give Joel the photo of him and Sarah and Joel refusing but that’s it really. I thought all the Tommy and Joel scenes hit way harder here. Like I said as well I also think the Ellie and Joel iconic argument makes way more sense with them having a bigger emotional connection by this point now as well. Joel wasn’t acting much different yet in the game, so Ellie being so attached to Joel now makes that argument even stronger. I adore both the game and the show and I find it easier while watching to just not compare unless I find something cool, I like to see them both as separate things or expansions in a way and it makes it more enjoyable to watch personally.
@@clover2739i think y’all are forgetting that we had A LOT of time-skips in the game with joel and ellie, so ofc we didn’t see every moment they have bonded. the good thing about the show is that they had to fill those moments out, because it’s not a game so there’s no gameplay, which means they had a lot more time to work on character & relationship development and depth. if the game didn’t have time-skips, it would be unbelievably long.
i’m just saying cuz y’all act like game joel started caring about ellie like a daughter out of nowhere without much bonding, which isn’t true at all.
(sorry if there’s any mistakes, my english is pretty bad)
@@queenc9570 this is wild because this comment was a year ago, I’m
Not forgetting anything I just liked the show version since it made more sense from the bonding that we seen in comparison to the show with Joel being more open. I wasn’t really that serious with putting down game Joel, it was just my own personal preference. I haven’t forgotten anything lol
I think the showrunners trusted the audience enough to know that when Ellie follows Tommy outside she's clearly looking for Joel. For me it would have been almost too soap opera like had we seen her hear that conversation. A little trust in your audience is good.
I had no idea that's what Ellie was doing to be honest
Honestly love how much you two love TLOU. Makes watching along with you both so much more fun.
I think this was one of the best episodes so far and Joel should get an award for this episode, showing his volubility with his brother was a very emotional and heartfelt scene. I couldn't disagree with you guys more with your review on this one.
It only felt rushed because it's missing the gameplay. There's surprisingly little story beats of the game. There's only like 2 hours total of cutscene plus key gameplay dialog. It just feels more because we played as Joel and that's how the game cheats to build our connection to the characters. We don't actually need Ellie to run away and us spend an hour or two fighting random bandits to serve the same story.
To me it felt rushed because of the pacing of the episode. Had nothing to do with the game. The show is its own entity.
This is the most vulnerable we’ve seen from both Joel and Ellie yet. We know watching from Joel the desperation to close himself off to preserve whatever humanity he doesn’t want to lose yet and him breaking down in front of Tommy is indicative of how much he’s barely keeping it together, how this dam he built up for himself is breaking apart the more he gets closer to his new surrogate daughter.
Ellie, on the other hand, is a whole different kettle of fish. This is where her abandonment issues begin to boil over the more she loses her innocence; between being orphaned by her parents, being pawned off by Marlene, losing Riley, Tess, Henry and Sam, now she has to watch her father figure pawn her off and abandon her too? This girl can’t catch a damn break; it breaks my heart when she repeatedly tells him “Don’t leave me alone”.
FYI Graham Greene who played the husband in the opening scene also played Chief Rains Fall in Red Dead Redemption 2 and that's all I can hear when he speaks!
The last time I saw the "elderly" couple, in the beginning, was in the highly underrated show "Northern Exposure". It was great to see them again.
I love that the game mechanic of getting better equipment as you level up is preserved in the show: Ellie's got enough XP now that she can get a diva cup, instead of having to scrounge for tampons.
Not rushed at all. Didn't need the video game bait of Ellie running away. Them going to find her. Ensuing battle. That's just video game combat. Not cinema. The same goes for the university. Joel falling onto a rebar is unrealistic. For a 56 years old man to have survived. He's not a superhero.
This episode was Joel centric. His doubts at being able to protect Ellie. Him conflating Ellie with Sarah to Tommy. When he said he fails her every time. But the follow up lines gives context that he was talking about Ellie. He already views her as his daughter. At that moment he couldn't accept it. The flash of him and Sarah dressing the Christmas tree. Is a metaphor for him letting go of Sarah. That's why we see him easily talking about his life pre pandemic on their ride. The next episode will shift from Joel protecting Ellie to Ellie protecting Joel. This series isn't a literal interpretation of the game.
Our criticisms have nothing to do with the game. We understand the show is going to be different, and that isn't why we were unsatisfied with the episode.
@@sapphixated I surmise from your talk that you two are Ellie centric. Need everything spoken out loud to be confirmed. Not only are Ellie & Joel closer prior to Jackson. Subconsciously he considers her his daughter. His remark about dream of sheep on the moon. Was meshing both of their dreams together. Even though he used sheep rancher just to ribbed Ellie for talking too much. Another clue was when they were surrounded & he was panicking regarding the dog sniffing Ellie. He didn't have a PTSD flashback about Sarah. He was 100% focused on his fear of losing Ellie. There were many more examples pre Jackson and in Jackson as they talked to Tommy & Maria. Also, Tommy & Joel' 2 conversation. Joel is non verbal with his feelings. A nod of his head of approval, standing around the barn for a half hour & especially teaching Ellie to shoot. He finally sees her as she is. Not in the prism of Sarah where he had to protect her from everything. I believe the next episode will be Ellie centric. Especially her emotions regarding Joel. I would ask you to watch the after show podcast. Hosted by Troy Baker. If you still disagree after listening. Then go in peace.
@@phoenixrising8231 I also thought it was really obvious that Ellie felt out of sorts in Jackson town without Joel. She felt unsettled because she was unsure what the plan was. She kept looking around for Joel at the movies and then they also showed her walking down main street searching for him. I don't think we needed a visual of her actually standing right outside the window eavesdropping to understand later that she had found him and heard part of the conversation (repeated some words in confirmation) and felt abandoned and upset. Especially since her main fear is being left alone, left behind.
Love you guys and your deep love for this story. My best friend and me have pretty much locked in for life over our equal love for these games and how it’s told, and the tv show is doing wonders to bring it to a wider audience.
One of the things that had interested me in the version of Joel is the re-emerging of his humanity. During his monologue with Tommy, he mentions that five years earlier, “he would have destroyed that kid.” Not in just a physical way. But in a ruthless and cruel, apathetic way. He couldn’t kill Sam because he couldn’t bring himself to hurt Henry to get to the gun.
He is not just afraid that he won’t be physically able to protect Ellie, he is also losing that ruthless and violent part of himself that protected him for so long.
We know that the years following outbreak day, they did terrible things to survive. I think the loss of Sarah encouraged Joel to keep his humanity at bay, and it allowed a dark and violent version of himself to emerge.
Now there is the kiddo who tells him jokes and cares for him deeply. He is opening himself back up to the world, but also losing that ruthless tendency for himself.
I think his fear of failing her is also his fear of getting too close to her. Whether it’s because he his afraid to lose her, or that if he comes back to humanity he will have to face the things he did head on.
Ahhh. I want to hang out and have a bag of milk and a carton of Arizona green tea and talk all things TLOU with you both. 💕
I knew y'all were gonna flip when they showed Staring Girl™ haha
I soooo wanna make it a meme for Dina
It's odd to see people who love the game don't like this episode. I guess the disjointedness came from having to follow Joel and Ellie's different things going on in Jackson. Because in previous episodes it still was "one scene after another" but the difference was Joel and Ellie were always together vs other scenes with either Henry and Sam or Kathleen and Perry.
I think a lot of the disappointment is because people who knew the game were expecting the "you're not my daughter" scene to be the emotional high of the episode, but since it came after Joel's monologue (which I think is the actual emotional climax of the episode) it felt a little lackluster when put immediately after that scene (though imo Pedro and Bella killed it). Playing the game, it did take a while to get from meeting Tommy and Maria to Ellie leaving and Joel looking for her to the "you're not my daughter" talk to the University shanking. But because the show can't really justify the raiders entering Jackson, or Ellie running off and having Joel go off to find her, people felt that was "rushed."
IDK but this was a more emotion-driven episode for me, with the main fights being the Tommy and Joel bar scene and Ellie defending Joel from Maria's judgment. The focus wasn't Jackson but Ellie's actions that repeatedly reaffirm she has Joel's back and Joel navigating his relationship with Ellie. And Pedro Pascal's performance during that monologue was ridiculously good and made Joel so much more humanized. Because of course how could you spend 3 months with a kid you're responsible for and still be so aloof?
Anyway, I do think the university part could have been extended a bit more, but for the purposes of the plot, they did just come for the Fireflies and since they were gone and they figured out where they were going, they'd have no reason to stick around in the building to fight off the raiders, so I can see why it made sense to put the university section in the last minutes of the game. The most important part of University section plot-wise wasn't really the fight, it was Joel's injury. And we got there without having to throw a 56 year old man down 2 stories, which realistically would have killed him lol.
[edit[ Also, I love your guys' reactions. I was waiting for this upload lol I didn't know it got stuck in copyright hell. I just got carried away with typing this because I adore the emotional depth of this episode.
Interesting that you felt this episode was weird. I thought it was perfect and it was my favorite of the six. I mean the University scene had little action compared to the game but idk action is the thing that I'm not looking forward that much from this show. They got there, learned where the Fireflies were and then Joel got stabbed for Ellie to take the lead next episode and get the chance to prove herself.
Sad that you didn't feel the Joel scenes, they were the best part of the show for me :( He is always angry or just cold and awkward but seeing him express his feelings was huge for me.
Yes same. At the moment of watching it was perfect. After watching game fans reactions and commented differences, I kinda agree that we maybe needed slitly more at university, it went too fast, but that's influenced by game. If you don't know maybe you don't think too much of it. I'll wait till end of season to see how much fighting we have left and if violence is "enough" so I won't mind they cut it here.
Also some people thought after the bedroom fight it resolved too fast but honestly we knew two of them would be together again so drawing it out was meaningless.
@@Andjelka99 I played the first game years ago so I don't remember all of it that well. Maybe is just that, I don't have expectations scene by scene of everything that's happening.
For me the fight in the bedroom was perfect. Joel already bonded with Ellie, he is just afraid of losing her. Not need to drag out the fight that much.
my issues with the pacing weren't really related to the game, I just think the iconic scene was meant to be the climax but it didn't feel climactic because the tension hadn't been rising enough for me. I think a big piece of the puzzle that I didn't clue into is that Ellie spent all day looking for Joel. I don't know why I didn't realize that at the time, but I think Ellie's perspective on the scene was missing for me, which is why I expressed wishing we had seen her overhear the convo with Joel and Tommy.
@@sapphixated That's understandable, I haven't watched the Podcast yet to know more about what the Showrunners wanted to do but my guess is that they didn't show Ellie so we can focus more on Joel's feelings and what was he saying.
In the game Joel is just angry at Tommy. Here he is begging and crying for Tommy to take her so idk this was a Joel episode rather than an episode about Joel and Ellie... I feel your criticism tho, the pace was slightly off (more towards the end) and maybe if we had spent more time in the town a lot of the problems you see would've been solved.
Hope both of you can enjoy more the next three episodes. They are setting up everything for the hospital scene. I really want to see what they do with that.
@@fakub2026 oh I know I'll enjoy it for sure cannot wait to see how will they play it all out. I'm gonna be a mess 😭😂
I agree when you said it feels rushed to us who played the game. I've heard other youtubers saying it's rushed, but I don't feel the same... When you watch it carefully, every scene "takes it's time", almost like in slow pace, but those who played the game know every single thing that happened and we want every single thing to happen in the series too. That's why some of us might feel that way.
I dont think our reaction had anything to do with the game, the way this episode was put together felt strange to us regardless of the game's events.
I think the only part that felt rushed to me was when Joel was stabbed. I really liked the part in the game where you have to escape the university after he's wounded and Ellie proves how capable she is by helping Joel and taking out the hunters. Maybe it wouldn't have worked as well in the show, though.
@@miroh8 yes, that part was intense af in the game. I missed that too.
@@sapphixated oh, i understand :)
I don’t feel it’s rushed. The pacing is perfect. The reason why the pacing works in the game is because, there is a lot of unrealistic action that would not translate well into a real life adaptation of a tv series. If you are of the people who feel it’s rushed I suggest you play the game. It’s so funny that people think it’s rushed, when all of the long dramatic cut scenes, recordings, journals, etc,. were followed by unrealistic gameplay.
Joel gave his brother that "you commie bastard" stare 😅
I was somehow able to watch this last night when it originally uploaded, happy to see it's back! I appreciate your perspective here and on TikTok - this was the most fanservice-y episode for sure (DINA, SHIMMER, A SHEEP FARM ON THE MOON), and I thought Pedro's monologue was beautiful. It does feel more squashed down for time than previous episodes, and my friends who aren't as familiar with the game said the emotional beats didn't have enough room to breathe. they can't all be gold star winners I guess!
Yeyyy finallyyyy. I was most excited for your reaction out of everyone I watch for this one. Episode was goldmine for part 2 teases aaaaaaaaaa. This season isn't even over and I can't wait for s2
The official podcast practically confirms that it's Dina too.
They play a bit coy about it, but it's totally Dina.
Oh yeah, definitely!
The significance of Joel giving Ellie a choice here cannot be overstated, considering…
Thanks for recommending another reaction channel. Going directly there after this episode. 😊
Your reactions are the only ones I've enjoyed for this series and look forward to.
Oh man. I been waiting!! I love watching yall's reactions.
It has been so wonderful watching the show with two hardcore TLOU nerds like myself. Thank you!
There are two things I look forward in my week: a new tlou episode and your reaction! I've been loving it! Also, I didn't think the pacing was weird in this one, but did think it was for the previous episode. Everything felt rushed, I wish we could've met the brothers more slowly
I'm having a blast seeing all the newbies who are trying to figure out if the show just pulled a Ned Stark on them, because with the way it's gone so far, that's absolutely possible.
I'm also so sorry for poor souls who googled is Joel dead without specifying part 1
I’ve been waiting for your reaction to seeing Dina! I knew you’d both freak out and it made me so happy 😂
I think they were too focused on leaving the audience on a cliffhanger that the whole university section felt rushed. I loved everything in Jackson, but I wished they’d spent the whole episode there. Joel’s injury in the game really takes it’s time and is one of the best moments because of it, including Ellie fighting like hell to get them out of the situation, and I don’t love how all of that was ignored for the sake of cramming it in right at the end?? Weird choice.
Anyway, I am OBSESSED with your reactions and I’m so glad UA-cam helped me stumble across this channel. I watched the TLOU2 playthrough a few weeks ago and loved that too.
You’re all a joy to watch, keep up the good work, and lots of love from the UK ❤
Your excitement gives me life
Never played 1 or 2, loving the show though, the acting has been so good, and watching game fans react to the Easter Eggs is lots of fun too
I get where you’re coming from with the pacing of the show sometimes (regardless of the game), and I agreed at first, but I feel it works a bit better upon second viewing once we have the full picture of the show
As someone who hasn’t played the games, I feel like at this point in the show dragging out more infighting between Ellie and Joel would’ve felt weird to me. I only felt that the ending was a little light compared to earlier episodes.
Y’all are my favorite to watch for reacting to this show though. Keep it up 🤟🏾.
The way I was freaking out when Dina passed. I couldn’t say anything cause I was watching with show-onlys😭😭😭
I love you guys. ❤ I just came here to say that. and I can't wait to see more
I find it interesting that Tommy and Maria might have a kid, that makes me think that Season 2 might focus on abandonment as a theme too. Tommy might leave his Family for revenge just Like Ellie did with Dina. So we have Tommy, Owen, Ellie All abandoning their Children in some way
I feel like the episode was perfectly paced to be honest.
Its a lot of the game cramped into one episode, because quite a lot of the gameplay in the related section of the game is so slow and mostly exploration/sneaking gameplay which will never translate over.
The University scene also felt really good to me, because the sequence in the game, while dramatic since you are in control of Joel stumbling along listening to the panic in Ellies voice after you fall, thats another part which would not translate well for the average viewer.
Same with the whole scene at the Dam, works in gameplay but I dont think it would translate well.
I loved this episode as much as the others my self, and think the ending really sets us up for whats to come, which we know will also probably be toned down a little for the general audience.
FINALLY. YASSS BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!
I found you guys around ep 3, and have loved y'alls talks about it in relation to the games and vice versa! I had one thought of why they decided to have Maria be pregnant in the show, related to the finale. (End spoilers and stuff)
I think they decided to have Maria be pregnant so when Joel tells Tommy about what he did to the Fireflies to save Ellie, he won't think Joel is losing it. Tommy feels bad about the murders he and Joel did to survive, so I think if he wasn't soon to be a dad then he wouldn't really be able to wrap his head around why Joel would go absolutely ape on a whole facility of people.
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
Here before this gets taken down yet again. Sorry you had to go through such trouble getting this up.
As a writer I loved this episode, well paced and perfectly executed.
I really loved your discussion part!
I'm so torn! I don't want spoilers but I want to hear what you have to say.. I'm glad to see you're alright after last week though. I was legit concerned about you.
this was a joel centric episode and i loved seeing what was going on behind the scenes for him. wish we got some of the panic attack/anxiety seeds planted in the last episode or two because they almost come out of nowhere but i guess during the conversation between joel and tommy he does hint that its been happening for a while and that this is really his breaking point. the whole conversation really hit hard because we never think of joel as an "emotional" guy as he never projects his true emotions and has been completely closed off since sarah died o to see him completely vulnerable and desperate was very difficult.
i like the almost contrast between how maria and tommy has a memorial for sarah, someone who maria never even met yet joel still can't even hear the name without flinching and putting his hands into a fist which , again, for me added another layer to just how messed up joel really is.
i also thought it was a very touching scene where joel sees the girl with the hair that looks like sarahs. another reminder of what joel has lost and how he will never have that. all he has is an idea or a fantasy of a life that could've been and that was so sad to watch
the scene in the bedroom didn't hit as hard as it did in the game and it felt a little stiff ? bella and pedro are incredible actors, no doubt about it, however that scene lacked the emotional depth i feel like it should've got and it also had no consequences because two minutes later they reunite and leave together and never talk about it again as far as we know whereas in the game it felt like a much much more pivotal moment.
i loved the easter eggs from part 2 and the dina cameo made me jump from excitement because of part 2 and i really hope they give her a big part in season 2 as other than joel she is probably the closest person to ellie and their relationship was such a great storyline. for representation and other reasons.
the university stuff only had about 10 minutes of screen time however i felt like they used it well to set up that the fireflies had once again moved somewhere, there were clues as to where they were going and possibly even why they left. the stabbing however... that should've had way more screen time and shouldn't have just been the last 3 minutes of the episode and it definitely felt almost random even though we as people who have seen/played the game know, that it had to happen somehow and this was the way they chose to do it. maybe if they had cut out some bits from the very beginning or just extended the episode by like 15 minutes like they did with episode 1 and 3.
idk.. either way im excited to see where they take us next as there are only 3 episodes left in the show but im also totally not ready to say goodbye to the show just yet because god knows when season 2 will even start pre production, not to mention filming so we might have to wait a while lol
Joel's panic attacks weren't in earlier episodes bc that was when Joel and Ellie were first starting to bond and learning to rely on each other. then there's the 3 months time skip, which is a long time to bond, and is probably when he began to feel even more scared for her safety which started triggering his PTSD.
I definitely don't think the confrontation scene was stiff at all. Their delivery just felt more realistic, in the sense that their voices aren't as animated sounding bc they're not being mo-capped. It also definitely had the same emotional depth, it's just that the context due to the moments and characterizations of Joel and Ellie are different leading up to that scene.
The way it pans out in the game is how you described the show- the confrontation happens and then a 20-second horse riding montage later, Joel suddenly reunites with her and they never mention it again. In the show tho, Joel actually has the whole night to sleep off his emotions and has a longer time to decide that he wants to give Ellie the choice, to be fairer to her and show he cares. It was still a pivotal moment, just probably not as much of an emotional gut-punch as you might remember it in the game bc it follows the emotions of Joel's conversation with Tommy right before.
@@beccazach maybe i don’t remember the moment in the game as much then. i thought there was more time in there so you’re probably right about that !!
i’m not sure what i was expecting from that conversation and like i said i think they’re incredible actors but it was just lacking something for me. maybe “stiffness” isn’t the right word for it. maybe if we saw some of the 3 month period in more detail, especially after what happened with henry and sam, it would’ve made it more impactful. i really don’t know. i did love the episode as a whole and despite having so much stuff in it i thought it was well paced apart from the very very ending.
also i get the acting in the show being different than in the game so that wasn’t my problem at all !!
This is the reaction I needeeeeed!!!!
I'm a little surprised that you two didn't enjoy this episode! But honestly, it's all good. Personally, I am still liking the story choices that the showrunners have made, but I can certainly understand where you two are coming from. Because I feel like there are fans of the game who are pulled into similar camps as you two, in regards to liking/disliking the flow of the story, differences between the source material and the show, etc.
And HELLS YEAH that was Dina! I was almost as happy to see her (but still NOWHERE nearly as amped as Jude was) when me and my friends were watching this episode for the first time!
Still enjoying your reactions, especially since I am just another cis-het dude...LOL! (Seriously, I actually enjoy the queer perspective you two are dropping on each episode. It's very helpful with my own personal deprogramming from the patriarchy.)
Until next episode! (Spoken in the same tone and voice as the campus dean of Mars University from that episode of "Futurama".) "Contractorrrrrrrr!" 😄
HAhaha. "You probably skipped ahead to where the reaction starts."
That cover of the Depeche Mode song was performed by Craig Mazin's daughter
I’m just realizing this now: if Mariah is a few months along in her pregnancy, then that means tommy and maria with have a toddler in part 2, adding to tommys’ story and giving him another reason to not go to seattle
Game brain and expectations. Honestly, I wish I could turn it off. I sometimes envy those watching who haven't played the game; I watch this with a couple of people who haven't played it and they had no issues because they had no awareness of the compression, whereas I did.
I personally loved this episode and I am one the biggest last of us fans out there, I believe the iconic scene made more sense in the series than in the game 🙂 and dont get me wrong they both were absolutely great 🙂
What a great great episode. Bella and Piedro killing it.
The reason why Joel doesn't teach Ellie much or let her do it things is that she wouldn't be cargo anymore. Such things create a mutual connection that Joel did not want until then. He doesn't want to give her the option to take care of him. Just like Sarah did back then. I mean she did the housekeeping, made sure he wore his shirt the right way around ect.
The campfire scene was not in the game, but was originally supposed to be included. Druckman said he can now finally show more through the series than was possible in the game. At the end of the game, only a concept art remains of the campfire scene.
Joel to Ellie: "Dream of sheep ranches on the moon."
This sentence says so much. Joel already connects Ellie's dreams with his.
Ellie drank from Joel's liquor and it was "STILL gross". That was a callback to the DLC.
Next episode Ashley Johnson (Game Ellie) will properly get an appearance in the Ellie Flashback (Game DLC).
Ellie was no different to Kathleen. The only difference lies in the social size of the immediate environment.
Both lost an important person, both wanted revenge at all costs. For both of them, their revenge was more important than their friends and loved ones. Both didn't care about the colleteral damage. Both tortured. For Ellie, all the Wolfs were just as guilty as Abby, justifying to Dina her murder tour through the country. Both were willing to kill children or accept them as colleteral damage. After Ellie killed a pregnant woman, she still wasn't ready to stop. So she willingly and knowingly accepted more dead pregnant women. Finally, she held a knife to a boy's throat to force Abby to fight. Abby never did anything like that. Her revenge focused on one person. There was no colleteral damage. Only when her friends died, it went on. She let Ellie go a second time. Ellie couldn't help it. So Ellie is 100% equal to Kathleen, not Abby.
I am not justifying or excusing any of the 3 people in their actions. I'm just saying that the comparison between Kathleen and Abby has huge gaps.
I couldn't stand Kathleen at all. There was zero sympathy for her in me. I love Ellie, Joel and Ellie equally.
there's definitely parallels between Kathleen and Abby as well. Abby compromised all her relationships in her pursuit of revenge and suffered dire consequences when she did get it. there can be similarities without the stories being the exact same. Ellie and Abby have strong parallels as well. it's the same story being told in slightly different ways.
@@sapphixated I don't deny that. That are the points that all have in common. These are things with which they punish themselves. The sacrifices they make to their souls. But the actions at the expense of others are significant.
Joel's panic attacks really affected me.
I think the "choice" he gave Ellie was a cop out. He disguised him not being able to let Ellie go as giving her a choice between him and Tommy, because he knew Ellie would choose him.
But he also knew he really hurt her last night and Ellie isn't above doing something just to get back at Joel. I think he hoped she would choose him and maybe knew it, but there's a slight part of him that was probably a little nervous she wouldn't. I still think regardless it was nice that he used the word choice because Ellie hasn't really had one her whole life. She's just sort of been tossed around.
I was like " 🤯 Oh shit its dina and she kinda looks like her"
I had an initial reaction to this episode similar to yours. I rewatched and changed my mind. I think why the moment in this episode initially felt less impactful than in the game is the amount of time we had to sit with the feeling of Joel’s harsh words to Ellie, they took a long slow ride plus there was the fact that she ran away and we had to chase her down, it just let the whole pain sit and fester for a much longer time, I agree that maybe this should have been a ten episode season and break this episode into two, let the viewer have to wait a week feeling the rift between Joel and Ellie. It felt rushed to me too, but after watching first timers watch and rewatching myself, It doesn’t bother me any more. A lot happens in the episode which makes it a great television episode. Just my thoughts.
This is the episode that pedro got nominated for an emmy for 👏🏻. I was so upset that he got hurt, definitely thought joel died at the end. Why the hell didnt they stay in the classroom until the raiders left!? Cuz they thought they’d steal the damn horse?? The horse is gonna go bye bye anyways lol
...i may have, in fact, skipped ahead to the reaction. Then I got called out and went back and watched the first bit xD.
it wasn't meant to be a callout!! just a warning for ppl who did skip ahead so they don't miss the spoiler warning
Like you, I also had the feeling that this episode felt rushed, and was a little puzzled by it. It was after watching reactors who haven't played the game get wrecked by this episode, that I realized what it was. Those of us who have played the game will remember in this series of events: a shootout at the dam, Joel and Tommy searching for Ellie after she runs off with a horse, a shootout with raiders in the house after the emotional talk with Ellie, infected in the college and the dorms, and then battling the raiders while Joel is wounded after falling on rebar. It is a long, action-filled gauntlet, which this series is largely de-emphasizing, but it leads to plot-points that feel earned through struggle, even though they don't really relate to that struggle: let's face it, the action set-pieces are what gets us "back on the stick," but they rarely advance the plot. So HBO viewers are just following the plot, while gamers might think it feels rushed because they remember it taking longer. Neither is wrong, per-se, but that's the big difference, I think.
I think this episode was as good as the others, it hit for me and it wasn't weird
Definitely wasn't rushed or weird for me
Me when they reached Jackson: :')
Me when they enter the hall: ;_;
Me when they show Dina: T_T
Me when they show Shimmer: OH MY FUCKING GOD STOP!
Damn TLoU 2 PTSD.
The amount of Part 2 and future Part 1 references & foreshadowing in this episode were insane. And yeah, Joel gave Ellie a choice, something the Fireflies did not. By the way, check the red & blue pin line on the map. :)
Ellie finds out about Sarah from Maria in the game too though, it was just off camera when Joel talked to Tommy. Personally this was my favorite episode, with 5 being the worst for me.
He gave her a choice here to foreshadow him not giving her a choice later. All the adults Ellie trusts are going to fail/betray her. Maria's comment about being careful who you put your faith in foreshadows that as well.
@@sapphixated it wasn't Joel who straight up sedated her without telling her what they'd actually do.
@@Dark__Thoughts no, but it was he who stole her away and lied to her for two years🤷🏼♀️ not gonna get into a debate of Joel vs fireflies, the point is that were both in the wrong.
@@sapphixated Yes, but really not the point I was making about the choice. Joel was completely out during that time.
I don’t think anyone’s going to be ready for season two 🥺
When they're up on the ridge and Joel says he doesn't know how the dam works, it reminds me of tlou2 when sniping-flashback Tommy says he doesn't know how seasonal infected herds work. I wonder if that was an intentional thing.
That aside, kinda sad the bedroom scene didn't hit as hard as the game and the impale scene wasn't as intense. A decent episode, but it felt a little lacking or maybe rushed.
I definitely thought of Tommy's whole "barometric pressure" bit lmao, also when Joel didn't know how siphoning works in the previous episode
Something that has become clearer for me watching this again, is that the character foils for Joel in the game so far (Bill and Henry) have been flipped. In the game, Bill acted as a warning for what Joel could become if he keeps shutting people out and prioritising survival. Bill is the extreme - you'll end up bitter and alone. Henry represents the quashing of childhood and innocence in Sam. Which is the same thing that could happen with Joel and Ellie if he keeps shutting her out. But in the show, both of these cautionary tales are instead presented more as possible bids for the hope and connection that come with letting people in. It's essentially accomplishing the same thing, just from a different perspective.
Mi sono iscritto dal video 1 , ma scrivo solo ora , siete simpaticissime , un saluto dall ' Italia .
Hell even Tommy's partner in the Fireflies Eugene left them and he seemed like a true believer so it's pretty obvious they were splintering long before Marlene found out about Ellie. Even if Joel hadn't of one man army-ed the remainder of the SLC Fireflies I think they would have fallen apart. They already had a rep in many circles of the surviving population as liars and fakes. When 2 warriors like Tommy and Eugene quit and groups like WLF form up it's pretty obvious they were not what they claimed.
Great job girls tlou 1/2 are the best games on the ps4 can't wait for the next episode. It comes out at 2am Monday in the UK well worth staying up for.
I hated playing as Abby in part 2 even though it was needed for the story. Her story will translate better for TV can’t wait for that
I enjoyed Abby more than ellie in part 2 tbh
I think playing as her in the past 4 years more before golf match would've help the game so so much. General gamer would've connected more then having her drop in suddenly. Have her revenge, then do everything same and start play as Abby again Seattle day one
55:47 “Maria is weird.” How? You care to explain this? Because all I see is a competent leader who is willing to care for Ellie and is starting a family. So I’m left with one conclusion.
I later said that I didn't feel she was weird because of the actress. it was the writing. also when I said that I was specifically thinking of the scene where she casually dropped the bomb without Sarah, I didnt elaborate cuz the conversation continued, but the writing in that scene felt contrived. It had nothing to do with Rutina's casting, i was stoked to see her
@@sapphixated Isn't that what happens in the game, though? Maria tells Ellie off screen about Sarah, in some private conversation between the two of them. How would it even come up? Here we had the two memorial candles, showing that the memory of Kevin and Sarah are being kept alive. Ellie and Maria both noted it, and the conversation flowed from there.
@@annemoore3590 as I said... the writing in the scene felt contrived to me. I was hoping they'd find a cleverer way to do it since I always thought it was always a strange plot point in the game as well.
Definitely agree with your post-reaction discussion, it has grown on me though over the past couple days. The way it was adapted I definitely missed Tommy recognizing that Joel is unable to communicate it but he's afraid of getting close to Ellie with the chance that he'll lose her. Although Pedro did a great job in the super vulnerable scene. Also missed Ellie recognizing Joel wasn't going to abandon her but it makes sense she was given the choice since he already hurt her.
It's probably also added to contrast with how the Fireflies don't give Ellie the choice to sacrifice herself or not, and Joel takes away the opportunity for her to save others (via a cure) like she wanted by killing all the doctors and forcibly removing her from the facility.
Not liking the best episode is CRAZY
I loved the Joel and Ellie scene but I do have to say I wish they would have had more of it. Like the mighty thin ice comment and such. It was shorter than I think it should have been. But it was still a great scene.
The unifying element, from scene to scene here really is Joel's trauma, isn't it? That seems like the reason why the show feels so different. In the game you really take for granted the fact that Joel's a murder machine who is just scared to get close to Ellie and the experience of inevitable loss -- not a guy doubting his own abilities that will be the cause of loss. The Big Scene here wasn't at all the one with Ellie, but the one just before with Tommy where Joel is recounting traumatic event after traumatic event. "I saw a man kill his little brother, stood by and did nothing" -- just before asking Tommy to do this dangerous journey to the university.
I think what would have really made this episode work is if they had honed in on Ellie quietly having trauma from the journey as well that Joel had not yet picked up on. E.g. "Tess died alone." "I was in that car with a clicker and thought I was going to die alone." "I fell asleep and Sam turned... alone." "When I go to sleep I wonder if you're still going to be there when I wake up - that's secretly why I want to take watch." Etc. And they might have driven home the point that, ultimately, Joel IS necessary because of their shared experience -- only he, at this point, can make her feel like she has someone who cares about her. He gets her jokes. He knows her history. He had chances to abandon her and didn't.
And then they could go further to visually demonstrate Ellie's trauma in some way E.g. have her have a flashback to the clicker horde while in the uncomfortable closer quarters movie theater. E.g. Maria holds the scissors to cut Ellie's hair from behind and she briefly envisions Brian's knife, E.g. a dream sequence/flashback (that you assume is Joel's at first) of Henry shooting an infected Sam, then cutting back to Henry's reaction holding the gun, but it's not Henry at all, but Ellie holding the gun, in the room, by herself, alone. She panicks, only to have Joel, watching over, wake her up from her sleep.
There is a conflict between having to establish Ellie as independently strong throughout, but then also developing her emotional breadth. So far, they've made Ellie an adventurous badass, going off by herself more than once, but they haven't really reinforced the notion that she feels fear or is traumatized at all. No Joel going off by himself to find a pallette-raft leaving Ellie on the shore. No awkward separation pairing Ellie with Henry and reunion. The Big Scene really falls flat. "The truth is I would only feel more scared" just doesn't really pay off anything we've seen so far in the show to indicate that Ellie has felt that way, deeply. She demonstrates that she's capable and curious and is proud of herself, but not that she is especially emotional about anything. Like, maybe if they had shown Ellie's perspective & visage when she tells Joel "I don't want to talk about it." re: having shot someone before or Ellie's perspective walking away from Tess & the burning building or the graves & Joel holding the shovel.
I think they could have had Joel quietly come to a realization that she is dealing with abandonment issues (like, maybe to close the door after their fight only to peak back in at some point to see her crying/hyperventilating) and then realize that the way to not fail her is to not abandon her -- even if that brings him closer to another tragic loss.
It really does feel like they cut some scenes out, doesn't it?? Maybe we'll get that Ellie-depth in the next one and it'll help make this one feel less rushed in retrospect?
Thanks for the honesty in your reaction! & effort to re-upload multiple times. I really appreciate it.
I actually akipped parts of the intro when i thought u were talking about second game (u said u prob skipped to reaction so we are warning here lol). I watch reaction videos where someone says they are about to mention game 2 so skip ahead 30 seconds if u dont wanna hear. I think that was a good way to do it, so i could still enjoy the rest of the reaction video.
I felt off about the "big scene" as well, but for me it was more of a tonal issue than a pacing one. That's probably my favorite scene in the original game so I'm doing my best to distance myself from the deviation of the *exact* vocal performance from Troy/Ashley, but in the game Joel comes into that room angry and frustrated at Ellie for going off on her own and with the 1-2 punch of Ellie mentioning Sarah it feels appropriate when Joel lashes out with "you're right, you're not my daughter." But here, he enters sad and defeated having just had a conversation where he himself was comparing his and Ellie's relationship to that of his daughter he failed to protect. "You're not my daughter" just feels overly harsh and spiteful out of nowhere.
There are elements of the toned-down university scene that I actually quite prefer for the sake of this adaptation, though. The fact that a single combatant once again snuck up on Joel and he came away injured just reinforces the fears and vulnerabilities he expressed to Tommy earlier in the episode, and a prolonged combat where he dispatches a bunch of guys may have clashed with that (and Ellie's time to shoulder more of the load is literally what this injury is meant to setup so having her step up in a big combat would have just diminished what's to come).
Nicely put. I think that's the reason, difference in Joel's emotional state before he entered the room. They brushed over it on the podcast too, to be exact they mentioned mighty thin ice line and why it was changed
well said! that's what I identified about that scene too. I was wondering if they were going to have a falling out of sorts to spurn that scene but nothing really happened between them before that. part of the reason why I wished we had seen Ellie overhear the conversation
I know yall gave spoiler warning and all, but I kind of expected spoilers on what we've seen so far, and how it was in the game and etc. I didn't expect a full on "Joel will eventually do ____ at the end of the game" in like the intro...
We literally opened the video saying we will talk about the first game, second game and everything else. I'm sorry but we have given more than enough warning and we labeled the intro as intro and discussion.
What more can we do to make it clear that we talk about the last of us in it's entirety?
Y’all didn’t do anything wrong, I mean, you did say spoiler warning lol.
It’s just… spoilers usually work differently?
Like for example, when game of thrones was happening, and books were seasons ahead, when people said “we will discuss the book”, we’d “review”; never really “preview”.
Like someone will go, “oh wow Aria is supposed to have her wolf with her in the books”. But rarely, if ever, someone will go, “Oh that’s the sword Aria will use to kill the mountain one day! Cool”.
So while you clearly warned us and therefore it’s my own fault, I just assumed the spoilers would follow the usual method of “review” and didn’t foresee y’all seeing something and going, “Oh wow that’s a really good parallel to the decision Joel will do at the end of _____”. @_@
Like I’ve never seen someone go, “Oh Pedro Pascal is the Viper? Cool. Oh he’s talking about how he wanted to see his sister, he’s so obsessed about it no wonder he ends up dying for it”. When people said they’d discuss the source material and spoilers it seldom means things we haven’t even seen or would’ve seen yet, or major plot twists/points.
I’ll have to come back to the reactions not only after season is over. Not even after other season is over. But literally once the whole series is done then. Which is sad cuz I love yalls reactions!
Cya somewhere in the future!
I thoroughly enjoyed the episode but I do agree with the both of you about the pacing feeling a little weird. With how much it covered it felt like this could have been two episodes, one with them getting to Jackson and a second with them going through the University.
I dont think they needed a whole episode for the university, but it maybe could have happened at the beginning of the next episode instead of crammed in at the end of this one
All love, but I think your takes are weird. There’s no gameplay. Those parts are filled with extra context. Most reactions and reviews are saying this is one of the best episodes. I agree.
You’re definitely not with the vast majority.
okay? that doesn't mean our opinions aren't valid. lots of folks have agreed w us. it's okay to disagree!
The problem is to compare everything with the game. You have to think its an adaptation and have his proper dynamic. I dont think its a bad episode at all
I agree about the episode feeling a bit rushed and weird, but this section of the game is also extremely rushed IMO. It just jumps between the major plot points with a bunch of filler combat encounters in-between each scene. My big disappointment here is really that they didn't use the show's format to flesh this stuff out more. Could have given us more time for Joel to change his mind about going their separate ways for example. A single dream sequence didn't do it for me.
Tommy becoming a father is going to make his arc in Part 2 a lot more painful I expect.
Why would people decide to spoil themselves by looking up the whole cast? I just don‘t get it.
I agree that the pacing was odd, especially in contrast to the rest of the episodes. Part of it might be that the director of this one ep has never directed an episode of TV before this (she only did films).
This episode had lots of stuff going for it but it but I think it would have been better served if it split into two episodes. Joel and Ellie’s breakup needs some time to breathe before they leave for the college. Just my opinion.
I’m with you on this episode not landing as well, especially that moment. IMO the biggest reason is because while in the game Ellie reads the situation right and the conflict comes from a real rift between the characters, in the show it’s the tired old “partially heard conversation leads to misunderstanding” trope so instead of the conflict feeling real it’s just wasted emotional energy.
Also for the pacing, their desire to cram all the additional Jackson material in felt more subtractive than additive to me from a storytelling perspective. Fun easter eggs but not meaningful to the narrative the show is building. Less time fleshing out jackson could have meant more time earning the big beats.
Anyways, still having fun watching the show and watching your reactions. Glad to know that I’m somewhat simpatico with some of the biggest TLoU heads doing reaction content on the tubes.
Last of us will return late 2024 or early 2025 so now we know
GINAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
I do kinda agree that this episode felt too rushed and fit too much together. I think they should have done a whole episode with Joel, Ellie, Tommy, Maria and establishing Jackson. Like, maybe even have some flashbacks showing how things were when Joel and Tommy used to be more violent or flashbacks to when they were in Boston together. Then the episode can wrap up when they leave Jackson and the next episode could focus on them going to the university and the university section.
A entire ep for the university wouldn’t make sense.
что так долго?) как всегда реакция топ!!!👍
Joel's heart-to-heart with Tommy is 100% Emmy-bait!
Nobody saw girls!!!!!
Gina!
In a very positive way man my gay man sense is just off the charts here lol (please be right)
hehe we are both 💅
❤️❤️
I like your videos, but literally putting a spoiler IN THE TITLE is pretty much spoiling it.
i don't see how it's a spoiler, if you know who Dina is then it's not a surprise and if you don't know who she is, you don't know what you don't know🤷🏼♀️