Shanmugam's line of questioning is rife with fallacies, and is undeniably an insult to any discipline of academia. His strategy was clear: to distill any and all the grey areas of interpretation(which understandably requires academic qualification), and to force them into uncharitable binary yes/no answers. This 'debate' speaks more of the character of Shanmugam than it has anything to do with Thum's contributions or character. Two conclusions - 1. If Shanmugam himself truly believes that his line of questioning is indeed acceptable (having repeatedly stopped Thum's attempts to clarify), then he is out of his element to be leading this select committee since he clearly does not understand the way that academia works. 2. If god forbid he doesn't believe in the fairness of this hearing in the first place, then this 'debate' is a farce all along. Then, the only truth that Shanmugam is interested in is one that is regrettably malformed to serve the narrow needs of his political agenda, not the public at large. Sadly, it does not take much to see that Shanmugam went into this already having preconceived notions about Thum.
Thum is cahooting with foreigners to divide Singapore for his personal interest. If you do academia research, you hardly find any journal or article written by Thum in well-established journals. This is a red flag. So he wrote books and self-published but few people cited his work. If you read his work they are not objective and relied on weak evidence. Thum can be a script writer and write fiction but not as a credible historian who do youtube channels and ask for donations.
Doesn't sound one bit like a debate at all! This is a cross examination! But then isn't history endorsed by the rulers rather than those who oppose them? There are always 2 sides to a story, his-story included. Wasting tax payers money.!
Thum got an apology and an admission from Shanmugam that he was right. Thum, like us, was getting impatient with the pointless questions. Another typical example of PAP high-handedness. Good talent used for evil. What a shame.
Thum was right and knows that when Singaporeans can’t speak much and there’s no freedom of speech in Singapore. PAP controls the media, law and everything in Singapore. Even SPF has no balls to touch PAP when they are wrong. GE2020 is a great example.
Just a case of being unable to accept another point of view. And not to mention bullying others into aligning to their own definitions. History is so subjective; and to just silence Tham when he is trying to clarify his definition. 😡 Shanmugam is soooooo rude. Debate my ass. It's definitely a bloody interrogation.
Shanmugam wanted Thum whom he interrogated to be brief in "three four lines", but Shanmugam allowed himself the freedom to rant on into strange innuendos
Both Shangumam and historian Dr Thum are two great minds. I respect both of them. You can never have such discussions in a neighbouring country as the politicians in that country will raise religion and race to silence facts.
You call this a discussion? This was an outright interrogation and closer to intimidation and bullying! Shan was the one doing all the questioning and at every opportunity Thum used to clarify his position that went against what Shan wanted to hear, Shan would shut him down. You didn't mention which neighboring country you are referring to but from my experience, far more contentious discussions are allowed in Indonesia and Malaysia without interference from politicians.
I think many people don't understand what's the point of having a public hearing: it's more of the government taking each person's account for each specific statement and then putting them on records, at the same time examining each record. Shanmungam may be "rude" and "cutting people off" but he does largely stay within the confines of each specific question that he's asking, which also applies PJ Thum's thesis that should be subject to rigorous scrutiny. However, it does get a bit annoying that he keeps cutting him off because I genuinely want to hear what he wants to talk about and all, maybe an online course of sorts to put forth his research and all? That way we get to examine ourselves what exactly things are (i do know that records and things may have been destroyed and will be incomplete).
Malaysia government did not sell the Singapore land to the natives here , I believe, it's given up n it's an free given land to this multi racial to decide their destiny.
As many have said, this is an INTERROGATION. Dr PJ Thum has made his statement both in video and article format on New Naratif. I hope that the 2020 government is more open to criticism from our LOVING CRITICS, as coined by Tommy Koh, and are willing to debate on issues that are considered taboo/controversial (like POFMA) in a constructive manner. "If you disagree with someone, just start by asking them what they mean. We are all reasonable people." - Dr PJ Thum, Jun 23 2020
I suggest, whenever Honorable minister Shanmugam debate (some thinks its interrogation) some one, better keep a 20 L water can close to that one... These academia will write anything they fancy and imagine for any tinsel.
I also lost patience to learn about righteousness in Singapore. It was like Historian Thum was right about ALL that he had written but Shanmugam was hell bent to prove a flaw in Thum's.................!!! Take a nap, Mr Thum!
What an international joke. Is this a debate a interrogation? He wasn’t really given a chance to explain. Shanmugam is a bully, what a shame. In future GEs PAP bully clowns should be voted out. Time for fresh ideas, fresh politics, greasy Singapore
Sounds like a court of inquisition...with the cold war mentality. Thum is courageous. The need to challenge an alternative view is important for a regime to maintain its justifications for its credibility and continuing its grip on power.
so basically the ENTIRE point of all this in one question is "do you agree that other people were politically active"? And Shanmugam tries to conflate normal political participation with an alleged active underground conspiracy to bring about a coupe .... And in what universe do you quote Chinese propaganda and sources that exaggerate everything for self benefit in such a context?
That was the time when communists and democracy battles in China, Korea and south east Asia. Casualties from both sides with huge losses of lives. Maybe, communists then china or Russia were not that powerful and rich to integrate helped to these activities resulting the more powerful n wealthy America and British behind the democratic politicians to punish those political criminals the longest jailed term in history throughout the planet in these unbearable climate given up by malaya then
Select Commitee on Deliberate Onlne Falsehoods... Straits Times, thoughts on the intended function of this committee and then targeting academic research lol
![Minister K Shanmugam vs Facebook's Simon Milner [Select Committee on Deliberate Online Falsehoods]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h47QSqLp_e0/mqdefault.jpg)
What debate? I gave up after twenty minutes as it was pure interrogation.
@@jr5of part 4?
What interrogation?
This guy is a traitor
Shanmugam's line of questioning is rife with fallacies, and is undeniably an insult to any discipline of academia. His strategy was clear: to distill any and all the grey areas of interpretation(which understandably requires academic qualification), and to force them into uncharitable binary yes/no answers. This 'debate' speaks more of the character of Shanmugam than it has anything to do with Thum's contributions or character. Two conclusions - 1. If Shanmugam himself truly believes that his line of questioning is indeed acceptable (having repeatedly stopped Thum's attempts to clarify), then he is out of his element to be leading this select committee since he clearly does not understand the way that academia works. 2. If god forbid he doesn't believe in the fairness of this hearing in the first place, then this 'debate' is a farce all along. Then, the only truth that Shanmugam is interested in is one that is regrettably malformed to serve the narrow needs of his political agenda, not the public at large. Sadly, it does not take much to see that Shanmugam went into this already having preconceived notions about Thum.
I am terribly ashamed. Speechless and ashamed of the kind of reason and logic that runs in the society I live in.
Great observation. What do you do for a living, Fariz?
Thum is cahooting with foreigners to divide Singapore for his personal interest. If you do academia research, you hardly find any journal or article written by Thum in well-established journals. This is a red flag. So he wrote books and self-published but few people cited his work. If you read his work they are not objective and relied on weak evidence. Thum can be a script writer and write fiction but not as a credible historian who do youtube channels and ask for donations.
Are you a lawyer, Fariz?
Shanmugam is a lawyer, not a historian. He is a politician too.
this is a debate or interrogation???
Doesn't sound one bit like a debate at all! This is a cross examination! But then isn't history endorsed by the rulers rather than those who oppose them? There are always 2 sides to a story, his-story included. Wasting tax payers money.!
It’s a cross-examination
Thum got an apology and an admission from Shanmugam that he was right. Thum, like us, was getting impatient with the pointless questions.
Another typical example of PAP high-handedness. Good talent used for evil. What a shame.
Sources?
Thum was right and knows that when Singaporeans can’t speak much and there’s no freedom of speech in Singapore. PAP controls the media, law and everything in Singapore. Even SPF has no balls to touch PAP when they are wrong. GE2020 is a great example.
I m with you bro
Thum must come back and run as an opposition. Singapore need good people to hold the PAP at accountable
Really, he is taking funds from outside sources
He will sink Spore
No. I disagree. He must remain an historian. He needs to be unbias, and tell the story based on evidence.
His voice is just as important as yours, ours.
Sometimes when Shanmugam cuts off others, it seems that he is hiding something publicly embarrassing about PAP again
Now you know this guy is receiving funds from outside sources
Can trust him?
Just a case of being unable to accept another point of view. And not to mention bullying others into aligning to their own definitions.
History is so subjective; and to just silence Tham when he is trying to clarify his definition. 😡
Shanmugam is soooooo rude. Debate my ass. It's definitely a bloody interrogation.
This is not a debate. This is a parliamentary committee hearing. This is not supposed to be and IS NOT a debate!!!
I think he just wants him to commit on what he had written or said so that he couldn't claim it to be a mistakes, misunderstood or typo error later.
Shanmugam wanted Thum whom he interrogated to be brief in "three four lines", but Shanmugam allowed himself the freedom to rant on into strange innuendos
Lol I found myself saying ‘So why is this relevant?’ too many times.
you can bring him out for roti prata but you cant bring the roti prata outta him
haha!
LOL. If only someone can say this to Shan's face.
Hahahaaa
Please don’t bring roti prata into this lah. We love roti prata.
When PAP take on such tactics, it really disgusted me.
This seems to be really a waste of public resource isn't it?
A waste of public resources followed by a slap at their own faces.
What a waste of time and money.
he should be spending more time with the people
Discrimination in differ views is a hinder for understand of public views. THANKS FOR CONTEXT IN DEBATE
Both Shangumam and historian Dr Thum are two great minds. I respect both of them. You can never have such discussions in a neighbouring country as the politicians in that country will raise religion and race to silence facts.
This is not a discussion
You call this a discussion? This was an outright interrogation and closer to intimidation and bullying! Shan was the one doing all the questioning and at every opportunity Thum used to clarify his position that went against what Shan wanted to hear, Shan would shut him down. You didn't mention which neighboring country you are referring to but from my experience, far more contentious discussions are allowed in Indonesia and Malaysia without interference from politicians.
My question is can I take a toilet break very simple yes or no
this is MUCH worse than my thesis defence!
I think many people don't understand what's the point of having a public hearing: it's more of the government taking each person's account for each specific statement and then putting them on records, at the same time examining each record. Shanmungam may be "rude" and "cutting people off" but he does largely stay within the confines of each specific question that he's asking, which also applies PJ Thum's thesis that should be subject to rigorous scrutiny. However, it does get a bit annoying that he keeps cutting him off because I genuinely want to hear what he wants to talk about and all, maybe an online course of sorts to put forth his research and all? That way we get to examine ourselves what exactly things are (i do know that records and things may have been destroyed and will be incomplete).
Seem to be interrogation
Malaysia government did not sell the Singapore land to the natives here , I believe, it's given up n it's an free given land to this multi racial to decide their destiny.
As many have said, this is an INTERROGATION.
Dr PJ Thum has made his statement both in video and article format on New Naratif.
I hope that the 2020 government is more open to criticism from our LOVING CRITICS, as coined by Tommy Koh, and are willing to debate on issues that are considered taboo/controversial (like POFMA) in a constructive manner.
"If you disagree with someone, just start by asking them what they mean. We are all reasonable people."
- Dr PJ Thum, Jun 23 2020
6
K Shanmuugam is born on the year of 1959? He is just a baby. How much true story did he knows? I am wondering too? Only LKY knows himself.
That is a good one, bro
"
...his ghost is in the room....that's my answer from the one page you're referring to.."
Actually, I am unconvinced. However, I do accept that this is necessary to manage the country. I hope they don’t abuse their power.
when you dunno someone,you should nvr assume who he or she is!!! this is not a casual chat but something serious
Debate bout history is not a fact, it was written by someone maybe true maybe wrong
Typical Lawyer tactic of cornering the subject 🤣
What rubbish is this from SG govt .. sick people we have in govt
after listening to a good 1 hr, in my opinion, i m led to believe Shanmugam is not too intelligent. Thanks.
Is he a Judge or a laser, the way I see it he is acting Judge, where is the real Judge instead🙊🙉🙈
Ownself judge ownself and hand out judgment and sentence based on how one feel.
Video mislabeled. It's a hearing, not a debate
7:55 get roasted HAHAHAHA
I suggest, whenever Honorable minister Shanmugam debate (some thinks its interrogation) some one, better keep a 20 L water can close to that one...
These academia will write anything they fancy and imagine for any tinsel.
I also lost patience to learn about righteousness in Singapore. It was like Historian Thum was right about ALL that he had written but Shanmugam was hell bent to prove a flaw in Thum's.................!!!
Take a nap, Mr Thum!
What an international joke. Is this a debate a interrogation? He wasn’t really given a chance to explain. Shanmugam is a bully, what a shame. In future GEs PAP bully clowns should be voted out. Time for fresh ideas, fresh politics, greasy Singapore
Sounds like a court of inquisition...with the cold war mentality.
Thum is courageous.
The need to challenge an alternative view is important for a regime to maintain its justifications for its credibility and continuing its grip on power.
so basically the ENTIRE point of all this in one question is "do you agree that other people were politically active"? And Shanmugam tries to conflate normal political participation with an alleged active underground conspiracy to bring about a coupe ....
And in what universe do you quote Chinese propaganda and sources that exaggerate everything for self benefit in such a context?
What a bully !!!
Want to sleep already....😴😴😴
if the gov need explanation be brief.. then why debate?
Wow. UA-cam bots is fighting for democracy! Comments are all in 2020 when video is in 2018.
That was the time when communists and democracy battles in China, Korea and south east Asia. Casualties from both sides with huge losses of lives. Maybe, communists then china or Russia were not that powerful and rich to integrate helped to these activities resulting the more powerful n wealthy America and British behind the democratic politicians to punish those political criminals the longest jailed term in history throughout the planet in these unbearable climate given up by malaya then
yaya papaya.....as usual
I mean pap just don’t want to get bad mouthed
i dont get it how is this a debate? when he only allow yes/no answers-.-
Ur minister is shutting his mouth from the truth. If you hear wtv he’s saying
I am here to listen to PJ, but its all the minister talking. How boring can this be?
On my own views Mr Shamugam Sir 👌👍..
Dun understand can simplify
This Ah neh sure cannot take intellect well
Select Commitee on Deliberate Onlne Falsehoods... Straits Times, thoughts on the intended function of this committee and then targeting academic research lol
singapore was kicked out of Malaysia in 1965
Singapore Cold Storage is it
can't compete with Sheng Siong haha
.
It appeared not good or style, the way someone listen to the grandmother story, ahhh boring
Dr.Thum swim across the English channel. This week 27 Migrants died
Are you aware I smell blata?