Shanmugam, Leong Mun Wai's Parliament debate on whether Lee Hsien Yang and wife have 'absconded'
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2023
- Home Affairs and Law Minister K Shanmugam and NCMP Leong Mun Wai of the Progress Singapore Party had a heated exchange in Parliament on Wednesday (Mar 22) about whether Lee Hsien Yang and his wife Lee Suet Fern had "absconded" from Singapore while they were being investigated for lying in court over the will of Singapore's founding prime minister Lee Kuan Yew.
Mr Shanmugam also raised questions about Mr Leong's conduct in Parliament and how he repeatedly breached parliamentary procedures in the course of the debate. Read more: cna.asia/3Z5zSVR
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3 Siblings fights over their Father's inheritance
Having the parliament's involvement to debate on handling the property inheritance
Having the high court involved on investigations on varies parties
Making this public, airing as world news
To be honest, this is very ugly. Im sure we can do better.
Yah...never knew execution of PRIVATE WILLS COULD END UP IN PARLIAMENT!
MUST BE WORLD'S FIRST!😆😆😆😆😆
DAMN STUPID, rite?
what a joke. the old man himself ... stated on tv ... its a dying man wish ... and it cannot be fulfilled ... saddest joke of all time
@@MrBunnylow ...everything would be set to rest once and for all...if old man can jump up from his grave...as he had promised ,if he felt 'something' was not right and said....
"How dare you ppl meddle with my last wishes and a bunch of clowns like you ppl running the country daring to use the system to your advantage, as I did....😆😆😆...now do as my last Will says....and now all of you get back to work and do jobs that you are paid millions for!!"😆😆😆
Well, democracy depends on the majority. So whats your issue? Does the majority find it an issue?
Yes, bring the case to court! Please keep parliament out of the family mess!
Ya lah, stop abusing power and using public funds for personal reasons. SGs are not stupid.
Yeah agree, shanmugam should send LMW to court and let court handle him.. Bloody stupid uncle
The PM did explain in great detail why it was brought up in Parliament. It's useful because there was full coverage and people can understand or weigh the action taken. Personal issues of MPs are handled by the relevant authorities, and they do have an impact on the MP who are elected by the people. We have seen a few MPs resigning because of personal issues. Not sure whether the NCMP concerned will be ejected or forced to step down. He was afterall automatically installed by the NCMP law, though he did not win the election.
The PM did explain in great detail why it was brought up in Parliament. It's useful because there was full coverage and people can understand or weigh the action taken. Personal issues of MPs are handled by the relevant authorities, and they do have an impact on the MP who are elected by the people. We have seen a few MPs resigning because of personal issues. Not sure whether the NCMP concerned will be ejected or forced to step down. He was afterall automatically installed by the NCMP law, though he did not win the election.
Who instituted the NCMP law? How was it instituted?
At this point they might as well call in Judge Judy to parliament. 😒
Good! A full version but it’s so long😂
One sided fight. Mr Shanmugam is so polished and Mr Leong is so shallow. And he came from a good school?
*Am still wondering why absconded when not in the wrong and how this absconding process happened ?*
LHY earlier days claimed "state organs" used against him..
@@tonykiang9052 What about state transplants ?
Why Lee's family matter was brought up for Parliament debate? We believe LKY will not want to see such thing happened......sad..
2015 till 2023. Still talking
@@tankman20064 That's really a poor and sadness things to Our Founder Lee. He will never never expected now his son and daughter-in-law to hide themselves as fugitives.
Hopefully things turn out to be okay. I really hope this ends...
I believe your statement was raised a thousand times....without any answer!!😆😆😆😆
the pap is declining
A sad & disgraceful episode for Lee Kuan Yew & family. What has become of our country😢
报应，so many people went to prison or face criminal charges to the point of exile, now also like this.
Such stressful meeting..😮
"for all we know" and "everyone knows" are classic gaslighting terms haha
We will all know what we shud know, know or not?
Instead of bringing up matters that are relevant to people's lives, they chose to waste time on fanning their egos.
Leong Mun Wai agreed that issue on 38 Oxley road is a matter of public interests
Not sure why CNA is so 👍 can ST do the same?
What would Lee Kuan Yew think if he were seeing all these here?
Return from the grave
It's really a part of LKY's legacy since his son, the PM of Singapore and DIL head of Singapore's SWF.
@@anglo-saxonconnor817 Need to print screen this and send to SPF for verification
Has a warrant of arrest been issued to Both Lee Hsien Yang and Wife?
Memang takde. Yang ada hanyalah bohong. Buat bohong kat parlimen menipu rakyat jelata.
When pressed on the KOM case, he makes it a point of whether the names should have been released AFTER the case has been tried in court. When LMW clarifies that the principle is on whether the names should have been released BEFORE trial, he quickly says "so now we put aside KOM", and moves on from it. The 'debate' then ends quickly after that.
However, this is not about KOM. Shanmugam was saying that liyani case is similar to LHY case where it’s disclose PRIOR to trial. LHY is the main subject here.
If there are question about KOM, a separate question should be filed. Based on KOM paying a fine and case is closed with one person pleading guilty . It seems aligned. Otherwise it open up a flood gate whether every case should be disclose.
LMW's "muddy the waters" means in relation to the comparison between the KOM case and the LHY case. He did not accuse Shanmugam of trying to confuse parliament. LMW was just questioning why LHY was named but not those in the KOM case, and so bringing in another case, Karl Liew's case, would muddy the waters, would confuse the comparison between just the 2 cases. Basically, he did not say Karl Liew's case is irrelevant (for a discussion in a broader context), but it may be irrelevant to the comparison when you just want to compare the 2 cases specifically. So whether it is relevant, it depends on whether you are trying to discuss at a broader context or whether you just want to focus on comparing the 2 cases.
At the end of the day, the mentality of us Majority is what that matters only😅
Wasting country resources !!! Wayang !!!
YOu sure you are a Singaporean? Crocodile tears!
The acting, and the dialogue.......so much better than Channel 5 drama stuff
The acting, and the dialogue.......so much better than Channel 5 drama stuff
Hahahaaa
Why flow chart was never used ?
🤣 good one!
There's a Indian saying, "Whatever the parents do to others, good or bad, will come upon their children's heads".
LKY family is a very good example.
A k.a. karma. Right?
Yes what he did to JB Jeyaretnam is now happening to his own child.
@@jslam1232not only to Jeyaratnam, those being labelled communists or Maoists, many are now in Cambodia and cannot return to Singapore. Bad deeds performed by dad now being copied by unfilial son to his own brother and nephew. very disgraceful to his parents. 😢
@@franciscody9622 karma exists regardless of one's own race, language or religion.
@@franciscody9622
OLD Man Said Tear the house down n keep the Family.
MOST EXPENSIVE PM On The Planet Kept The House n TORE the Family APART.
PM FIGHTING with Siblings All the Way to Parliament.
DISGRACEFUL
ZERO Respect for Such ppl
"...out of respect for the bereavement..." 👏👏👏
Recent development is this learnt minister rented a bungalow. Love to see this issue debated in Parliament 👏👏👏👍
Don't need to create so much drama. The plot is simple. Oppositions welcome the return of LHY to help them in their campaign while PAP don't want the return of LHY into Singapore so they want to put some legal complication status on LHY and his wife. General election is starting to near again you see.
He will have to answer the allegations before he can hope to run for the presidency.
Not right at all. LHY won't pose any threat to PAP. PSP certainly applaud the feud between the lees, seeing it a big pawn to have LHY as member. PAP has built a high talent wall for any capable opposition in the present and near future to break. There is no point to corner LHY or create political motives when 1st, no threat even if he is running for president, 2nd it is something LHL if have a choice would avoid dealing publicly, 3rd if LHY ordeal is not dealt with, there is no integrity in this govt.
I wonder how PAP will handle this if Shanmugam suddenly drops dead 🤔
Did LHY say "I am made a fugitive by my own country" or did he say "I am a fugitive from my own country"?
True maybe the definition of "made" needs to be clearly defined....
Are you trying to polish LHY just because he is rich or because his father is LKY? Does it mean rich and Lee is above the law? PSP, why waste so much time trying to take care of multil millionaire like LHY while the real people in Singapore are neglected?
@@jarrenloke2120 Nope.. Nothing to do with rich or poor... their logic is that LHY is against PAP, so an enemy of the enemy is a friend. I get that some people don't like how the PAP rules and wants to support the opposition.. But please lah... at least have some standards... people like LMW... people like Lin Tean?? Seriously guys????
@@anyohoww put a monkey to contest in election, sillyporeans will vote too. Perhaps its fashionable and trendy to support opposition at all cost
Thank you for showing this family drama.. it is really quite entertaining:). can't wait for the next episode
I find it odd that the government can say someone absconded when they have not then try to use that persons own use of the word fugitive to defend the use of the word absconded. Is this not fudging the issue? Isn’t absconding a matter of fact? And then insult the MP with references to dictionaries. This is disgusting and sad.
Public interest is governing and uphold.. not the other wise of private matters to be brought to the parliament such as LKY...
Agree
他以死掉，耍讲也難!只有班恶巴，拿他当箭牌？
因他是新加坡國父，得到人民的尊重!所以很多恶霸喜欢拿他来做当箭牌!
What a debate..super wily, super eloquent, super exchange…
Is only happening in Singapore. If is not correct, please correct me. Please do it in a way, Singaporeans are not burdened at all.
Wow .. ok Leong was a scholar working in GIC ! Ok is this a government mistake too?😅
Yes it was. Hes no good
all this debate over a fb post! feels like three guys interrogating mr leong! k shanmugan interrupted the opponent at times and the speaker allows it! omg!
This is clearly a matter between the Lees and does not involve the Office of the Prime Minister. Clearly the Government’s involvement has complicated this family issue and muddied the situation.
Singaporeans are sick and fed-up of watching this matter discussed in Parliament and the overbearing conduct of the Law Minister and the Leader of the House.
Escape from Singapore to obstruct a police investigation is not an offence?
Really sad for LKY, family squabbles should not be matters for politics. The handling of the Keppel saga has disappointed a lot of people
LHY is such a big disappointment 😒
Summon LMY from bereavement as if the sky thumbing down or what you say it is? How do you think People would read from this?
I think SMG should find bigger target like Pritam Singh than a nominated MP and also to repeat those words of his outside of Parliamentary Privilege.
Regardless of the purported commotion, there is no reason whatsoever of a alleged "offence"
Not offended, no apologies required seriously.
Services of speeches redundant throughout deliveries is a priceless presentation.
Thank you for sharing about.
Not sure how far can rocky Leong goes. Keep going 😅
I have a feeling it the end of the road for him.
Going the distance
might be paid to clown around in Parliament
@@zukor85 Rocky Leong is a smarter version of LTK
@@Autonomous4kpsfequal standing
The ensuing shock and "wow" after 54:03 is the highlight of the day
The way the leader of the house just flip her book immediately and want to react haha
You call that exciting? You should watch our (Malaysia's) parliamentary proceedings. 😂😂😂
Why was oxley a parliamentary issue?
LMY send him in for DPM post Got GUARDS
*Can please have the editted summarised clip version let say under less than 20 minutes of the juiciest contents so that we can full understanding*
There is a lot more important things to debate about.Why talk about this?
When we see this we know where to cast our vote! Why they can use pofma & play of word not to solve a problem + opposition cannot bring up issue or speak up but apologise if it doesn't sound good or what the woke govt wants to hear. Its beyond fair. They keep on changing goal post & gaslighting. Law for thee not for us woke govt.
And police call. And now all the brother and sister fighting over oxley road. Aiyo.
Why family issues is in parliament, there alot better thing for the country to talk tq
For my knowledge: saying am a Fugitive on social media counts as legally admitting a fault?
You definitely make it like a court proceedings...
❤️The issue of the will lie mostly quiet.Only when election is starting to come and they are planning to made preparations for it then they will air this feud out to stop LHY from running for president and to stop the oppositions from combining forces with him. If that happen pap will be very scare. They don't really fear Singaporeans being clever to see through everything or stupid to the point where they can understand nothing at all. They just fear people with enough power to take them down and end the era of pap in Singapore.
Or the powers of the office of the Elected Presidency to operate its constitutionally derived overseeing role in respect of the country's national reserves.
Very well said 👏👏👏👏👏🙏
*LMY is spot on right about public perception between KOM and LHY case and his definition is relevant*
Yes he got his point
Yeah LMY is a populist.
This guy is too smart for pap to handle.
thats an extremely weak argument... so the decision to release the names or not should be based on public perception, but not whether they were in fact charged for an offence? we should leave it to the court of public opinion to decide?
Hahahaha
This kind of debate like interrogation! Makes one want to vote for opposition more.
You should thank PAP for stilling order in parliament instead of making Singapore politics into falsehood and misinformation conferences to defend fugitive like LHY just because he throw money at PSP
Not a debate, more like bullying.
It seems that a point of time in the debate there was an offer that Shanmugan is threatening that he will ask to Parliament to take action if LMW insists on what he said. It is good that he stand firm.
Like the parting shot, I apologise to the Speaker, it drawn the attention that the speaker is not impartial.
Leong Mun Wai has improved in the debate, less stammering more confident......
More to come, this is not the end as you presupposed
Yes, LMW is making a fool of himself and further confirm voting PSP is LOLOLOL
Mr Leong is turning our parliament into a circus for the world to enjoy, just like our neighbour country...
Agree LMW has improved in the debate.
@@eee2399 Yup, skin has become thicker , kenna whacked right and left in Parliament, got to apologise to Tan CJ in Parliament, then got to apologise to Shanmugan, retracted statements and assertions and deleted his offensive sentences in his FB post. In humility, he was subdued, having been "stripped to his underwear". Luckily still got a bit of clothing to hide his utter disgrace and humiliation.
I didn't know shameugun can talk as and when he likes in this parliament. Remember gracefool tried to force Sylvia lim to apologise but didn't get it?
PAP is obssess with this apology thing.
A politician wld love to score a big point by playing this name branding game.
Shanmugam shld never call anyone a fugitive or absconded as a MP in d Parliament. It is d Judge of a court to throw such branding weather someone is a Fugitive or has Absconded.
Furthermore d court of law is d only right forum to exercise d procedures until every avenue is exhausted to declare someone has Absconded n deemed a Fugutive henceforth.
Mr Leong do hv a point which clearly indicates that d Minister has jumped d gun.
Wassallam
LHY said himself he is a fugitive. If thats not part of the meaning of absconded, then what is?
@@gerardyu940~ LHY said that he was made a fugitive by his own country, if I heard Shanmugam well. I stand to be corrected.
Wassallam
@@gerardyu940~ A fugitive must be declared by d courts n not by any politicians. That is d law.
Wassallam
@@navaratnamselvaduray2179 so LHY was wrong to declare that he was a fugitive?
@@gerardyu940~ Parliament is a place for people's sentiments. Not a court of law. Laws r made in d Parliament Hse based on sentiments.
It's between d Need n d Want.. N it's impossible to differentiate both as both r d needs wanted by a society.
Wassallam
Must've missed the part where indranee told Mr Speaker to conduct himself in a parliamentary manner when he swore under his breath at what A/P Jamus Lim said in parliament
"I'm not legally trained." but I like to keep talking about legal stuff that I know nothing about.
Try to treaten the opposition?
yes, he's right that's not a court.
So sad
Parliament is to discuss issues not to split hair over semantics! I do not doubt Leong Mun Wai's intention to contribute meaningfully to Singapore. Unfortunately, lawyers are trained to latch on every little nuance of language to overwhelm their opponents. Many MPs not trained in law are certainly put at a disadvantage when pitted against the skills of professional arguers. We should fashion our Parliament in a way that trained lawyers do not suppress meaningful discussions with their polemics. It helps if the Speaker can be a little more sympathetic towards non-lawyers to level the field. I do not like to see Shanmugam resorting to cross-examination in Parliament as if it's his usual day in court.
Then Speaker Tan Chuan Jin is out. Perhaps the next Speaker will be more sympathetic? One can live in hope.
😊
K@@josephpereira2996
And the PAP ministers are not answering the questions at all. Why are they paid to be bullies in parliament? The questions are valid and in the interest of Singaporeans - stop being a disgrace to your parents and family and descendents - give a clear straightforward answer and stop playing games like reverse questioning and word twisting.
Because singaporeans elect them to be gov. So they can do whaat they want to?
Indranee should be composed as a minister and improper to display fire bust reaction without mindful of the conduct in the house. Wow!
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye ?
Actually I agree with the government … all these parliamentary time on a ridiculous subject! What a waste of time !
Where in overseas are Mr Lee Xian Yang and Mrs Lee Suet Fern now?
stop interrupting ppl.
Every government official family member's unsolved issue should be directed to the family court, not putting it through a lengthy parliamentary debate wasting MP expensive'time and resources'. Augst House is a place to debate n discuss 'national' issues, not solving private 'family' problem.
家庭法庭？我行到脚軟，今天才去.....!
The son, LHL and PAP praised LKY to the high heavens where they presume he is now. Yet they won’t grant him his wish to have his house demolished.
Are you LKL long lost bro? You seem to know the inner facts lol
Thats a good one.
Absconded????
Has the couple been charged in court?
Have they been on bail and jumped bail?
They are investigated.
They have the option to answer or remain silent.
The police have to find proof themselves.
They said they will become fugitives. Have they become fugitives in this instance?
Apparently the parliament is taking the stand that the couple is guilty, therefore they absconded.
Every sg lawyers must be proud of how lawyers operate. Our MPs are all so kind and NOT PETTY
So sarcastic 🔥
Leong Mun Wai is so determined , definitely have the likes of the good old Joshua Benjamin Jeyaretnam.
Lol JBJ is far more intelligent than this uncle lmao
@@tingguoyu4671 better than the pathetic pap ib trolls
They speak up for us. Bless them.
Pretty sure 39% are praying for L
@@tingguoyu4671 well I mean in terms of that determination and grit.
To be fair the KOMs names have been published overseas.
These are dramas which the people of Singapore don't need. Just for joke: "LHY... Excommunicado..."
Mr. Leong. You are talking through your hat.
waitwaitwait.... why isMinister K Shanmugam is wearing two watches?
There is 2 English? Legal English and Spoken english? Absconded, legally qualified or spoken english? Did LHY used the word "fugitive" on social media Figuratively or Legally? In parliament, when an MP say say someone Absconded, is it Legal meaning or Artistic Imaginative figurative english?
what other meanings of 'absconded' and 'fugitive' could there be?
@@gerardyu940 pls start again from primary one to degree
Waaaaaa
is that a gentleman behaviour?
If LMW posted false statement in social media why you are not issuing POFMA?
Good question.
Dear minister, I did Amitabha Centre a/c a few years ago, I left the company already。I heard that Singaporean is the shareholders。I want to let you all know that I did the donation & old folks a/c only, othet than that I did not know。'Tanah curi tak boleh jual bukan saya cakap, bukan saya mulut.banyak'。I always kena disturb, so sad!! 阿弥陀佛! 8:25 8:27 8:30
is this a court ?
Go champs go for it, this is your biggest challenge by now, political struggles are very tough these .. shhh...it times, we all need support and backups, only united we can make any difference and . .climate change is our biggest enemy to fight against, everybody is crucial getting involved, neutralize pollution and ...when you feel like Ok..you can always help the others, solidarity is so delightful, wish you do, l am the biggest supporter of yours Ok?
Google : This honorable sun of Singapore….
So what did they lie about?
Hmmmm....... 😢
Ho seh Liao ! Can charge Mr Leong?
Double standard is practice here so our court of law is also run by fools.
A fugitive of circumstance is different...common sense...
This is simultaneously yawningly boring yet engaging
Why the hell is he insisting on bringing partyliani case in a totally different aspect of the case of KOM and LXY case??? Bringing in another past case is strange because we can also bring in other cases that might pose another similar incident? I thought all these were settled case by case??? There would be no end to these debates if you are harping on other cases, doesn't anyone find it strange? PAP will have alot of cases too, are they going to answer to every corruption case too?
What iPad does shamugaum have ？I have the iPad Air.
Jialat lah, opposition standard like this, how to provide check and balance to the government?
I think our opposition has to do better and focus to debate relevant real topics that impact citizen lives..eg jobs, trade etc.
P 1❤
😅
The speaker is horrible.... Its so obvious who he sides with... LMW concerns are valid....
If you need to sit there the whole day listening to this bullshit, I am sure you will do the same. LMW concern is to polish master LHY. he is acting like eunuchs to emperor LHY
It will be best for Mr. Leong contest against Shanmugam at Nee Soon GRC at next GE, then it will be a fair fight. in parliament , he will just be arrogant and bully the oppo.
@jameslim3850 Leong is not suited for this job. not sure why psp is putting him there
his concerns are not valid. as he himself has admitted towards the end that the names of the KOM case should not be released
On the contrary, I think the speaker was really being too kind already, Mr Leong seriously kept disrupting the flow and repeating what had just been discussed. And the craziest thing is what he said near the end, I can't believe that sort of word can come out in a parliamentary debate.
Shanemugun can explain himself when giving an answer but the other just need to say yes or no. 😅
Exactly
@@akhbarkhanmohamad6705 But when given a chance to explain, Lmw can only say ' there you go again ' and run back to fb to write nonsense. Did Shan do that?
Referee kelong.
@@user-hj1zj2fr8rbecause Shan not answering directly to the question and is interrupting LMW talking so was the Speaker
This is our so called democracy.
LKY. Our founding father, pls guide them...
Ya lah, why are Tan Chuan Jin & Shanmugam so impatient with LMW? Why can't he be allowed to speak his mind?
LMW is wasting parliament time
So have Shanmugam n Tan Chuan Jin. LHL is the biggest wastrel of parliament time. Have money yet refuse to spend legal fees. Leech
@o yu Yes, I agree with you, who is the busybody who dragged the family issues into the parliamentary agenda.
LHY should have been invited to participate in the proceedings by Zoom so we get his side of the story.
The minister treats parliament like a court house. Full of intimidation with snakey answers. The last relic of LKY (this is the same way that LKY treated his political opponents in the august house)
Mr Leong should see the danger coming. If he just talk rots in Parliament, he is protected. But he went outside Parliament and starts making statements in his Facebook that Mr Shanmugam deems offensive. He should just have apologised and move on. Now I can feel a Tsunami coming.
So u want to let jokers like LMW run amock in the parliament?
@@Ghost_594 You are joke indeed ! The point I am trying to express is the conduct of the Minister. In all his debates with opposition legislators, he treats the august house like a court of law. Always intimidating Trying his best to corner the opposition members in a legalistic manner. And today, he became a dictionary expert !
if only you had an unbiased speaker, the minister would have been destroyed and reduced to a joker.
Well, this is how the adult world works. No one is gonna tell you they hate you directly, you should have the EQ to know how to navigate the situation
@@rastamanrasta1313 LMW should read up on his facts before talking cock in parliament and wasting everyone time and when speaker ask him to elaborate he essentially told him to shut up. 'if the minister never ask me then I suggest you don't ask me also' It is through this 'legalistic manner' that ensures that the facts are assertained. and whats wrong with being a 'dictionary expert' LMW interpretation of a word is not necessarily correct. Its about the logic of the people in government and parliament not the party they are from.
Quote " No Members have an issue with that other than Mr Leong"
Because LHY is LMW’s comrade in PSP bro.
@@TheManabopo What have you interpreted from my quoting? English is art, is open to different interpretations. What english are you using for the word "comrade"? Legal english, layman english , singaporean english or china english?
you say I "silly" just now?
…Mr Leong sir, that uncalled for remark on the Honourable Speaker of the HOUSE, will be on the internet forever…