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What do you think? Are you good enough to enter heaven? How many lies have you told before? Ever stolen? Ever lusted? Ever hated anyone? We have broken God's laws but Jesus has paid our fine!
That chick that said "I am the treat" Giiirrrlll!!! 🤨🤣🤣🤣 I'm kind of surprised you didn't touch on the subject about people who give their horses sugar cubes as treats, and how it's not a good thing for their teeth and all.
I had great success training 3 pushy pasture horses to backup for a treat. I would put my hand with the treat behind my back while pressing forward until they made the slightest weight shift back. Instantly produced the treat. Took 1 session, and from them on, all I had to do when approaching them was to have my hand behind me, treat or not, and they would all politely take steps back in unison. So for this scenario, treats started as the problem and ended as the solution.
And that’s how working with tests works! It’s a super powerful motivator which means if done without consideration you can teach them the “wrong” things!
I rarely trat but I helped a friend with her new gelding. He was panicking if he only saw a trailer. We first did nothing but givin him his grains near the trailer every day for a week. Couple weeks later and he's now "self loading". And yes, he'll be getting a couple of treats for at least another couple of months for that...
There are a few "tricks" to training with food rewards that eliminate the cookie monster issue. First of all, start with a lower value treat like grass or alfalfa pellets instead of cookies. Teach the horse where you want them to keep their head in order to receive a treat. I prefer them to stand very still with head in calm neutral position. (No reaching towards me.) Then add a new step to the behavior you're working towards like come on cue - then put your head in treat position. I have taught a pony to go stand out of my way while I clean the pen using this approach. She'll stand and wait patiently until I go over and reward her. Usually 15-20 minutes every morning and evening. She has incredible self control for a greedy little pony 😅
this video just shows he doesn't understand treat training. he is literally rewarding the horse for mugging him, of course the horse will do that more frequently 🤦🏻♀️
Positive reinforcement is a great addition to a trainer's toolbox - it is a powerful motivator for the horse to engage, helps to create new, more positive associations, and allows for the training of skills that are difficult to impossible to train with negative reinforcement alone. Mouthiness and mugging occurs when there are no clear conditions to reinforcement, i.e. a treat is given in the absence of a desired behavior, so the mugging is generally what ends up being inadvertently rewarded. Misuse of negative reinforcement also has its own risks, so no means of training is at all perfect, and each has its uses. Great video Ryan!
If my horses were nippy, I would not use treats. But they are not, so I do. Using only release from pressure (negative reinforcement) as the reinforcer is only half of the equation.
My horse is spoilt for treats. I use treat for training everything. But he also has had t learn pressure and release. Had him since he was an unhandled 3.5 year old. now he is almost 10 and is the kindest most tolerant horse iv ever had.
I absolutely believe in the use of treats! Example yesterday with my 4 year old horse I spent about 30 mins teaching him to put his head down to put the bridle on, before he would throw his head up and walk baxkwards and I'm short, so I can't be doing that! After a few times of giving him a small piece of carrot after the bridle goes on him, he was putting his head right down into it. I also used treats to teach him to pick up his feet easier. At first I had to really pull his feet up and it was a struggle. Again every time I picked up his foot I gave him a piece of carrot and now i just have to run my hand down his leg and he lifts up. These only took one short session for him to figure it out, and now I have a horse who is easy to pick up his feet with and easy to bridle. He is a little nippy since I started but I'm going to spend another session teaching him that when he stops being nippy and stands quietly he gets the treat
Cookies are good for Positive Reinforcement, but Timing is the most important thing with that. If you want to teach your horse something new, a cookie in that moment your horse does it right, tells him he is right and motivates him to do it again. So in that video at 3:30 when you give that horse a treat for nothing and after he is begging for more you give him again, you are reinforcing that behaviour. Cookies are good but mostly the problem is when people not use them correctly.
That was the point of that bit - demonstrating what happens when you don't use treats for a specific behaviour and how quickly a horse can become pushy.
Not only is he getting cookied so much He is learning that he can push you back and push you around so much and basically kind of w to death because he wants a cookie and start taking advantage of you.
My mare is 16yrs & has been handfed treats her whole life. People just need to realize that there are rules around food delivery then the horse learns not to mug you . Clicker training using treats has enabled me to teach tricks like sticking out her tongue on cue & playing basketball that would be very difficult to obtain w/o the food reward.
Ive give my horses treats alot of times when I do groundwork exercises or stretch them. They still have to respect me, but it gives them motivation and we kind of playing around. I think its part of our bonding time and the horses gets happier if you stimulate their brain and they have to think.
That's exactly what I've found. I'm not a positive-only trainer but I love using treats as a way to create a stronger bond and to release a horse's emotions. It's like playing with them.
Haha it depends on if you are actually trying to train with positive reinforcement and willing to learn about the basics of it and how to do it correctly, or if you are simply giving your horse treats while you are training them.
You know I see people argue that they can't reward them in a timely manner. Yeah. It's hard with dogs too. That's why you use a bridge - like a clicker. There's also rules to giving treats to maintain manners And you can use markers to make pressure and release training more effective too
I have worked with numerous rescue horses from killpants and such over the past 15 plus years and I've had to use some treats and positive reinforcement to help with these horses with PTSD to learn to build up and retrain from negative behaviors but I do have some horses that actually do not care much for treats or are very particular about what kind of treats. I actually have had three or four of them that dislike apples and carrots or pears even and even certain horse treats so trying to find other ways that are very positive for them without being reactive or mistrusting of my intentions or interactions can be challenging.
Training is a lot like working with people (therapy) you have your fundamentals/base things that are the beginning but majority of work is working out and working off of that base to suit each individual
Treat manners are important. I only give the treat when my horse is looking straight ahead. This has to be taught, but it really works. My horse never mugs me for treats.
For 30 years I've ridden and trained using negative reinforcement (pressure and release). But, over time, I realized that the horse is doing his job essentially because of learned helplessness. What that means is the horse gives to pressure because he sees no other viable option. Recently, I picked up a wild mustang and make the decision to try positive reinforcement (treats for performance) as 80-90% of the training. So, even when I incorporate some pressure and release, the correct answer is followed up with the treat. This mustang is a bit of an experiment for me, to try an entirely new style of training from start to finish. Horses that I trained almost entirely on negative reinforcement/ pressure release, turned into obedient little soldiers on the ground and under saddle, but, weren't the happiest to come to me to be caught for work. Often, they'd start to walk away from me but then only turn to me to get caught because they knew that I would persist until caught... Learned helplessness. This mustang that I started with positive reinforcement being 80-90% of the training, his mind and attitude towards training is different than any other horse (including other mustangs) that I've worked with. When he sees my truck coming, he gets excited. When I enter his corral, he always stops what he's doing and comes straight to me. He catches me. Not the other way around. Because he wants to work and earn the payout. New tasks only take a few tries to catch on. By the end of the first week with him, he went from wild and untouched to me holding up a halter and him putting his face into it on his own. And, yes, we had to work through several days of learning to not be "muggy" or nippy for treats. It's actually really simple to teach a horse to not mug you... You don't give the treat until after they stop trying to mug you and their head returns to a neutral position. So now, when he hears the word "good", he returns his head to neutral to receive the treat, instead of trying to dig in my pockets or nip at my hands. I'm blown away at how eager he is to not only find the right answer, but to do it quickly and so lightly in feel, from this training. It's more effective at getting the horse to **want** to with with you, instead of working with you only because there's no other viable option (slavery, helplessness). If you think about it... Would you go to work 40 hours a week of physical labor for someone else if you were doing it out of force and got NO PAYCHECK? Ugh heck no! In using positive reinforcement, I feel like I'm working with my partner who is getting enough return out of their efforts to want to partner with me and work with me. My horse gets a "paycheck" and that paycheck is enough for him to say "ok what do you want me to do next?" So, after 30 years of riding and training, this year is the biggest shift I have made, and I'm definitely not looking back. But, I think it's super important for anyone who intends to use treats in training, to first learn all about how to prevent and correct horses that become "muggy". Starting treat training without a full understanding of how to successfully handle that, is a recipe for disaster. And it's such a simple lesson and concept... Just search UA-cam for "positive reinforcement muggy horses" and watch the video lessons on that before you start! That's the #1 complaint or "con" that people bring up with this type of training, so no big deal just master the prevention and correction of it first. All of the fantastic benefits far outweigh the cons. Also, as training tasks become more complex, you stop treating for ever tiny little movement in the right direction. You can slowly phase out the treats so that they are eventually used only for the big gestures. For example, halter training at first, the horse is treated for each step. Then treated for every 3 steps. Then every 10... Etc. For lunging, I set up 4 cones in a square around me, and treated every time the horse responded to my cue by walking around 1 cone then yielding the hindquarters back to me. At the end of the 1st session, I increased it to 2 cones before the reward comes. In our second session, we moved up to 3 cones (3/4 of a full circle) and then to a full circle before ending the session. By session 4, the cones are removed and the horse keeps going on the circle until I give the verbal cue to halt and receive the treat. Phasing out the treats at the right time and in the right way is what solves the problem of "you always have to have treats to do anything with the horse". Both of these "cons" are only "cons" if you haven't dove into the teachings enough to learn how to handle them. It's like, do you never fill your truck's gas tank because driving might get you into an accident? Of course not. You fill the tank and take all the proper safety cautions into account, and you learn how to be a good driver. You learn what actions on the road prevent accidents and avoid the ones that cause them. Excellent video, btw. It's nice to see that you're open minded and experimenting. The way I look at it, all of these things are just tools in the toolbox. Some tools work better for specific jobs at hand, and learning as many tools as you can to put into your toolbox, makes you more likely to solve the next issue that comes up without any trouble. The most effective scenarios for positive reinforcement / treat training, is with abused horses. And that's because it's the opposite of abuse, and it teaches the horse that while some horrible human in their past hurt them, that not all humans are like that and that a meaningful and rewarding partnership is possible, moving forward. It turned a negative situation into a positive one.
Thank you for your comment! I learned a lot. I’d like to talk with you more about your positive reinforcement training with your Mustang, as you don’t have videos :)
All is said - thanks for your comment. Sometimes when I read the comments, I feel sad. Horses don‘t have a choice. They just can‘t pack their bags and leave…they have to endure…😕 Let‘s make the world a bit better for them and praise them (whatever the horse likes: treats, scratches or words - it is so nice when they are proud, grow & shine), when they do a good job.
YUP THAT OLD PINTO KNEW THOSE TREATS ARE COMING. BOUGHT A LOVELY OLDER HALFLINGER WHO WAS ALWAYS WALKING AWAY, I WOULD WALK AROUND HIM AND WHEN HE TURNED TOWARD ME I WALKED UP AND TREATED HIM AND WE DO WHISTLE. HE COMES UP TO US LOOKING FOR THAT TREATS NOW. HE ALSO WAS DIFFICULT PICKING HIS FEET UP, SO PICK A HOOF, CLEAN IT, GIVE A TREAT. HE IS MAKING PROGRESS THAT WAY TOO. GREAT INSTRUCTION IN THIS VIDEO AS ALWAYS. Susan
R+ is only good when paired with good timing. Just like pressure & release. Bad timing means rewarding & reinforcing possibly the incorrect or even "bad" behavior. That’s why horses can get "muggy". It’s usually when the horse comes into their space, then they give a treat, then yeah, that’s reinforcing that behavior. I will say that training with R+, horses are much more motivated & they learn faster. And if your environment or stimulus is scary for the horse it helps them switch back to a parasympathetic state very quickly! Especially if they’re used to being reinforced.
Thanks this was helpful I was using treats hand feeding for getting my pony to come to me walk with me and back up at liberty but now I just give him his treats on the ground because they are part of his food just oats and apples He's in my pocket but if I own my space he's getting good at staying out of my pocket I do let him at times but that narrows down the problem I have to work on I needed the reminder:) More practice on boundaries but it is good that he's with me more too Can't just look at the problem just keep spending the time
You have the most gorgeous horses!!!! I did carrot stretches with my OTTB and he was the most limber thoroughbred in history 😂… that said, hand-feeding was something I was never a fan of because it encouraged biting, and I would just give my boy his carrots or treats on his grain after our ride. He always looked forward to it and was very well-mannered.
I give my horses a piece of carrot after i put the halter on when i catch them in the paddock. I think its a good thing I love doing it and they seem to like it too. 😊
I do clicker training and it’s just great! But it’s part of a definite training method. Politeness is absolutely the first rule! For instance my youngster would rear and paw when tied up. So, when tied up and standing nicely he got clicked and treated. Stopped misbehaving very quickly! Also zoos use clicker training to safely handle big animals especially.
I have 3 horses, 2 are super easy to catch, come to me when called and love getting to go out and work. Our OTTB gelding is stand offish, hard to catch extremely sensitive amd reactive. I am going to try the "catching, calling to me" technique to see if we can improve some of this. Thanks for sharing. I agree with you treat strategy and reccomendations.
I rarely give treats to our horses, NOW! I used to give treats all the time. I found that they turn into pick pockets and always expect a treat and crowd the person space. My wife and I also do a ton of work at one of our local Horse Rescues. I try to curb her from giving too many but My Wife is known as the "HUMAN PEZZ DISPENSER!" LOL
I know a friend who used to give her horses treats every day and she hardly did any thing with them. But when she wanted to she wonder why they played up on her & got abit dominant. I give my horses treat too but not all the time as I learnt my horse spartan got mouthy and he has nip me a few times when I had to stop that pretty quick. He's a kind loving horse but yep he can be abit pushy in your face at times.
I don't know how similar horses are to dogs, but I just went through months of trouble because I trained my dog with treats and then he would look at me like he didn't know what I was talking about if I asked him to sit without a treat. I weaned him from that to rewarding with play time, but it's still pretty much not doing anything unless he gets something. My dog was a pound puppy, so I don't know what his experience was before, but he just seems to have very little interest in pleasing us. Oh well, we'll keep working on it.
do you go to work and work well if you know you wont get any pay..? would you work better if you had a secure pay?.. I would. when there is no gain.. yeah hope u get it. if the consequence of you not working would be your boss shouting at you or why not the whole team... to avoid that you work next time.
'Treating Without Mygging' I have used clicker treating for years when I am teaching something new or for a great response ie. good stop for rewarding the behavior or response. They dont expect a treat & so don't mug you for food. They hear the click which I do with my mouth. Then their ears pop fwd & they know they have done something good and are getting a treat. With a very food orientated horse it wld be only for extra special behavior. I do this when riding too.
Treating came to my rescue recently. There is a lovely, but skittish OTTB at my barn who has been for all intents and purposes, abandoned by his teen owner when she lost interest. I have been giving a treat to her horse whenever I visited my own horse and he became comfortable around me and looked for me when I called him. Recently, he got out of his pasture while I was grooming mine in the barn, and appeared loose up at the barn. I fortunately had a carrot piece in my pocket and he came when I called and I was able to slip a lead rope over his head and lead him back to pasture. The other boarder at the barn at the time was amazed because she knew he was quite skittish. Darn, I wish I could afford two horses. He would be mine.
it helped me to give treats to my mustang - I will say it is a fine line - my mustang had to have some form of motivation - wild horses could care less about people - they never needed humans for food and water - so with mine it was really necessary - however I will say I had times when I noticed he was too in my pocket - so I stopped for a while..In new things it still helps him know he did great..I'll use treats a while then back off..but I can see all sides and there can be some downfalls if we aren't careful..
I give treats for.. treats! I like to give my horses a cookie when they first come into the barn, after grooming/saddling, or right after a ride so that they see it as a fun thing. When I'm actively working with them majority of the time I don't use any treats for reinforcement. But I do it to make the overall experience more enjoyable for them. That way they can still focus on me but it's a little enrichment to their experience :)
I am thinking about this as well. I dont give treats as my horse was nippy when i first got him. But am thinking about using it as positive reinforcement. However will he assosiate the treat with the ride, or the fact that hes back in the barn and make the ride less fun? Im not sure!
@@TheQueenAndTheKing For me it's less about making a specific part of our session the fun part, but more about random incentives throughout. So my horses associate me with work but also play. It just makes things less monotonous for them in my experience. And I want mu horses to look forward to spending time in the barn and getting groomed rather than being barn sour :)
I trained my share back in the day and found food as a reward/motivator decreases the horse's awareness. They focus on the food/treat and not the task, their safety, or your safety. Is this an absolute? No. But, for the most part I did not use food as a reward or motivator for those reasons.
Treats and positive reinforcement is amazing if done right and with boundaries taught and working lol. Usually the people that don’t do treat training or clicker training is the ones that don’t understand how to teach the horse patience, boundaries, etc. of course balancing positive and negative reinforcement is great for the horse mental and thinking
I use treats for the rare occasion that my horse has a very bad association with something so that it becomes more positive, but you'll never catch me with a fanny pack stopping my horse every 30 seconds to treat them 😂
A mugging horse can be resolved by good timing only giving the horse a treat when he is away from you in a neutral position. this fixed my cookie monster horse in 2 sessions
It absolutely does! A "treat" is what is called a "primary reinforcer" in animal brain science. Depending on how the animal responds, you have to change the primary reinforcer you are using, which can be a different food that is less exciting, or something other than a food. Primary reinforcers create the fastest and longest lasting brain patterns during training, which is why when it is done well, people swear by it. Removing pressure is slower, but it is also very effective on prey animal species, because they have evolved to "avoid" situations where they would be eaten. A lot of the people doing positive reinforcement do it badly, or are getting lucky having success while using bad technique on an easy horse. When executed well (and that means different things for different horses), it works even with very challenging animals, but it requires you to learn a lot, and be very observant, patient, and analytical. When you see the people riding on the noses of killer whales... they did that with an extremely assertive and fearless animal that is very food motivated using food. When you pop through with positive reinforcement, you get FAST results, AND/OR a horse that associates the work with enjoyment and WANTS to do it! I think using pressure is probably a lot SAFER FOR NOVICES than positive reinforcment, because it makes the horse cautious with you. Positive reinforcement with a willful horse requires a truly expert hand.
Pro-treat. I only give treats when they clearly have done something I asked them to do. Its simply a reward. Horses never mob me for treats, they know they only get them as a reward for a task.
Generally speaking, it so depends on the horse. My Haflinger took 5 minutes to learn to retrieve a brush with a few well timed treats. I am not kidding about how long it took. Now, he only gets a treat for being caught, and he gets all the treats I have (two or three). Then he doesn't look for them the rest of the time. Otherwise, he would be a 1500 pound mugger to whoever might step into his pasture. My Morgan mare thinks you are probably trying to poison her with the treats, but will work to her last ounce of strength with no treats if she knows what you want.
Great video. Treats are a training aid that is very useful in certain situations. To be stubborn or dogmatic about either never or always using them is counterproductive.
My horses love getting treats and it’s has strengthened our connection with each other. It makes them excited and happy. They are respectful and don’t get pushy. Why would I think about training with herd mentality when I’m not another horse?? If I behave like another horse I’m leaving myself open to be challenged and kicked etc right??? Makes no sense. I’m teaching my horses to work with me in my human world. It makes me sad that horses don’t get treated as well as dogs and cats. They are our pets and they deserve treats and being loved on. You can still have a respectful partner.
I agree… we ask so much from them… riding them carrying us asking for certain movement and performing how we want, being patient for us so we can groom them… but I also know we have to balance the treats out for something positive they do not just Willy nilly being a treat dispenser because I know that creates problems and could get aggressive.
Absolutely my horse gets treats! She’s never rude about asking though. Depends on the horse. My horse before she was under saddle would get maybe one treat. Now that she works 6 days a week she gets treats all throughout her ride for good answers. My trainer taught us to tap them on their neck first before the treat so they know when it’s time for a treat and not expecting it when they want it. Works well.
Also just to clarify (as a dog trainer this really gets my goat so I don't mean to sound agro sorry guys): When you're training a new command, first you get the dog (horse) to do it consistently. So they're wanting to do the behaviour because it's worked so many times before. THEN you add your cue, without body language, and if the dog performs, give a treat. In order to use cues, the cue MUST PREDICT the ACT of going into a position, and treat. If you say it at the same time, you're not predicting at all. If you say sit while the dog is already sitting, you aren't training them to sit off a command. All you're doing is predicting a treat.
The horses in my horse's pasture all gets treats from me (with permission from their owners). When training them to not mob me I also had a short little dressage whip with me so they knew to give me space and only come in for treats when I want them to. It worked and now I am miss popular when I go out into the pasture, but they respect my space when I am trying to catch my horse.
Pets, scratches, and change in tone of voice can be rewards, too. I have a cookie monster who gets a growly, low pitch "wrong answer" and a higher pitch, almost baby talk "good girl" when she gets it right. Its basically 2 different pitches of clicker training, I just dont always have my clickers. Her mother gets the stretch cookies, cuz she's old and arthritic, and won't move properly without her back and neck stretch.
Got my horse and he was already 13 years old but I do use treats when I greet him always. So now, my car just pulls up the driveway and he comes to the gate 😅. He also comes on call in the pasture. He also gets a treat after he gets saddled up. And then a salad bowl with fruit after a training session. I don't use treats during training most times. I like the idea of them for stretching though I'll try that.
Thank you so much for addressing pushy cookie monsters that owners and some 'trainers/horsemen' are creating! Treats to facilitate physical therapy or during bonding sessions of just saying hello in the pasture are awesome, but creating a reward system for training is dangerous and counter to being a leader to your horse. Stallions in the wild or alpha mares don't produce cookies - there's no reason you should in a training environment when you're building a partnership.
Bruh if your horse is turning into a pushy cookie monster that's your damn fault for not setting boundaries. I'm a R+ trainer. First thing I teach my horses is to keep their head away when I'm treating them. look up diagrams of our brain vs a horses brain and you'll see for yourself, their prefrontal cortex is nearly non existent. That means quite literally that they do not have the brain needed to understand the concept of dominance or respect. Fact, not opinion. Herd hierarchies have nothing to do with dominance, lol. Setting boundaries has nothing to do with dominance. In a typical life for the domesticated horse, resources that are abundant in the wild are limited. Herd mates, water troughs, even grass. This creates a pseudo-dominance hierarchy and the behaviors you see from this are resource guarding. Simply providing enough friends (herd mates), freedom (acreage), and forage (hay / grass) can cut back on a lot of the behaviors humans label as "aggressive". Herd animals are peaceful by nature, that's how they survive together, and when they aren't, it's up to you to figure out why that is instead of labelling it some human label that the horse has no concept of. Please stop anthropomorphizing horses.
My ponies all got treats on the pony ride IF they were polite about taking them. The kids loved it and so did the ponies. The trests were usually a carrot
So funny that you addressed this. Warwick Schiller just started doing videos on clicker training -- like yesterday! IMO it's not possible to manage treats unless they are given sparingly, and at specific times -- like when you catch the horse, when you put the horse away, after working or being ridden, etc. OR if you give them within the structure of clicker training. And CT has to be done very methodically and carefully. And always with opposing behaviors -- like coming to touch a target, and then backing up. But good for you for tackling this.
@@lizarutherford2477 True, but prior to this, he just demonstrated the tricks he taught his horses. (Or maybe just the one horse. Bundy?) Now he is actually teaching clicker training - starting new with one of their colts.
Would say to use treats or not depends on alot of different things, ofc you probably shouldn't give treats all the time every time, but for big brand new things that could be scary, maybe a bit of a treat, verbal and physical possitive reinforcement is nice but as a person that doesn't get very many gifts or "treats" or anything it does feel real nice and it is more encouraging when say...i may get a pizza party in school if i do well, yes good grades are the main treat but the extra bit is nice
It depends on the horse. I had a horse that had had changes done on him one by my trainer, but he would not do them for me. I finally got one and he got a treat. The next time I asked, I got a change and he got a treat. It took about a month to wean him off the treats. He had to do 2 changes before he got a treat. But hey, he learned his changes and I never had a problem with them again.
I think the part everyone forgets is that if your horse is asking for a treat you can say no. I think horses are smart enough to know that you won’t let them get away with that. I guess every horse is different, but I give horses treats whenever I want, but give their nose a little push away if they get too eager. I think if they get treats often they are much less likely to be over excited about it. The notion that it encourages them to bite is silly. Do horses give each other cookies? And yet they bite each other all the time. I don’t feel it has to do with treats, it’s just a form of communication, and they understand that they get the anti-treat if they go to biting a human.
I've seen many people create cookie monsters that became nippy over time which drove me crazy, because it is so preventable. I would use treats as a reward for the more troubled rescue horses I worked with when they would do something very good like allowing me to put on a blanket or fly mask (but only if they were just learning and were terrified of such things) or needing to do certain things with the blind horses. I feel it's good and bad in certain situations, especially if you compare a horse that is just being trained or one that has gone through abuse/neglect and are reaching new milestones through learning to trust again.
Pockets is just divine! That is my favorite coat. As far as treating goes, I do not treat during most training, but they may get a peppermint afterwards if they do really well.
I have a young rider that loves giving treats…I have mixed feelings about giving treats having dealt with a few pushy horses in my life…but this clip really explains when and how to give treats..Perfect! I am going to send this to her and not only will this explain things more clearly than I can but will give her effective tips for games to do with her horse and maybe have a new Ryan Rose follower.❤️❤️
Anne Gibbons settled this for me. Her advice was, treats are given by the rider or the trainer during the ride or training, never in the barn, or they turn into pigs. The sugar comes with work done well, along with verbal praise. My horses have always enjoyed their work more after my discussion with Anne.
Have you ever watched Sam van Fleet? She only allows treats if they have a nice headset, she teaches them to be respectful if they want the treat, so they won’t be pushy.😊
I only give my horse “treats” when we are doing stretches or when I’m asking her to do something she may not particularly like, but only right after as positive reinforcement. Always use the 3 second rule and like Ryan says in certain circumstances.
I don't own a horse yet, however I own three dogs. I treat when they finally do the trick on their own. When I am helping I will say good sit, or good lay down to reinforce the command. Then after they have voice commands down I work on hand commands. It's worked through 4 dogs so far. ❤️
yup. but I trained with hand first then later on added a cue, and just waited for them to figure it out. like she wanted the reward enough to try. by now she has a whole show to pull up when she wants to.
agree, I use treats on my OTTB rescue and it helps him realize work can be fun vs hard. my quarter horse was a treat monster but he got them just for being alive 38 yrs...nothing he did was wrong in my eyes at that age.
I do give treats, but only in his grain bowl. If we have a good session, he gets a little snack(usually 1-2lbs of grass) afterwards.if we have a great session, he'll get some treats in his grain bowl at dinner time. I used to carry some with me,but like you said, it can lead to some problems, so I stopped. He went through some "treat withdrawls"😅 but we worked past it. Recently, I've been getting more of the great sessions. Wonder if he's figured that out..🤔
I've seen too many treat sour horses for me to ever consider using treats for training. I have been to shows where as soon as the horse steps out of the arena it expects a treat, and if it doesn't get a treat it gets irritated. There are so many other ways to give positive reinforcement that do not have the same negative effect as using treats. Plus a lot of those treats are extremely calorically dense and high in sugars which is why so many owners that rely on treats as a training tool have fat horses.
I was thinking about giving the horses treats today! But the treat would take them out of the moment, faster than I would like. Everything is going great so I guess, If it ain’t broke…….
I love giving my horses treats! It's as much for my enjoyment as theirs. Last fall, I bought a Missouri Fox Trotter who was the most spoiled horse for treats I've ever seen! It was constant, and you could barely make a move without her mugging and almost knocking you over. I'm 78 years old, and can't have a 1200# pet knocking me over! Not only that, because this had been allowed, it was causing her a lot of treat anxiety. She would almost get your fingers in her mouth with her flapping lips because she was so intent on getting the treat. It's easy to fix. She had to learn that she doesn't get a treat until her head is looking straight ahead, and not showing any interest in the treat. To begin with, I had to gently push her head away a dozen times. She is much more calm now, and is taking the treat more gently than before. No more mugging. I can take a treat out of my pocket and she may look, hopefully, but doesn't try to get it and she doesn't get it until she is looking straight ahead.
For me it depends on the horse and what we are training - for really food driven horses who are mouthy I will use a treat stick or a dish. But I've worked with horses who won't even eat them, and I've worked with horses who are too distracted and won't focus on the work. There's a lot of variables that can change how many, what kind, and if I even use any treats.
I just started using treats to halter my hard to catch horse-(my fault…I was only catching him when we were going to ride). I am starting to change that habit as well. I do want to teach him to come when I call him.
My mare has really progressed in her training with treats. They aren't every day... once a week maybe. But she really tries hard when she knows I have them. Must be respectful at all times.
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What do you think? Are you good enough to enter heaven? How many lies have you told before?
Ever stolen? Ever lusted? Ever hated anyone? We have broken God's laws but Jesus has paid our fine!
My absolute, definitive and experienced answer is…it depends on the situation and the horse, but just so’s you know, I’m stingy.😂
😂
That sounds like me too, great answer 😊
That chick that said "I am the treat" Giiirrrlll!!! 🤨🤣🤣🤣
I'm kind of surprised you didn't touch on the subject about people who give their horses sugar cubes as treats, and how it's not a good thing for their teeth and all.
I had great success training 3 pushy pasture horses to backup for a treat. I would put my hand with the treat behind my back while pressing forward until they made the slightest weight shift back. Instantly produced the treat. Took 1 session, and from them on, all I had to do when approaching them was to have my hand behind me, treat or not, and they would all politely take steps back in unison. So for this scenario, treats started as the problem and ended as the solution.
Brilliant!
And that’s how working with tests works! It’s a super powerful motivator which means if done without consideration you can teach them the “wrong” things!
I rarely trat but I helped a friend with her new gelding. He was panicking if he only saw a trailer. We first did nothing but givin him his grains near the trailer every day for a week. Couple weeks later and he's now "self loading". And yes, he'll be getting a couple of treats for at least another couple of months for that...
There are a few "tricks" to training with food rewards that eliminate the cookie monster issue. First of all, start with a lower value treat like grass or alfalfa pellets instead of cookies. Teach the horse where you want them to keep their head in order to receive a treat. I prefer them to stand very still with head in calm neutral position. (No reaching towards me.) Then add a new step to the behavior you're working towards like come on cue - then put your head in treat position. I have taught a pony to go stand out of my way while I clean the pen using this approach. She'll stand and wait patiently until I go over and reward her. Usually 15-20 minutes every morning and evening. She has incredible self control for a greedy little pony 😅
Greedy little pony. I can relate!
this video just shows he doesn't understand treat training. he is literally rewarding the horse for mugging him, of course the horse will do that more frequently 🤦🏻♀️
Alternate between treats and pats when the horse does something right.
Positive reinforcement is a great addition to a trainer's toolbox - it is a powerful motivator for the horse to engage, helps to create new, more positive associations, and allows for the training of skills that are difficult to impossible to train with negative reinforcement alone. Mouthiness and mugging occurs when there are no clear conditions to reinforcement, i.e. a treat is given in the absence of a desired behavior, so the mugging is generally what ends up being inadvertently rewarded. Misuse of negative reinforcement also has its own risks, so no means of training is at all perfect, and each has its uses. Great video Ryan!
If my horses were nippy, I would not use treats. But they are not, so I do. Using only release from pressure (negative reinforcement) as the reinforcer is only half of the equation.
60+ years ago I fished a small stream outside our town. The wooded pasture had one occupant, a horse named Sonny
My horse is spoilt for treats. I use treat for training everything. But he also has had t learn pressure and release. Had him since he was an unhandled 3.5 year old. now he is almost 10 and is the kindest most tolerant horse iv ever had.
I absolutely believe in the use of treats! Example yesterday with my 4 year old horse I spent about 30 mins teaching him to put his head down to put the bridle on, before he would throw his head up and walk baxkwards and I'm short, so I can't be doing that! After a few times of giving him a small piece of carrot after the bridle goes on him, he was putting his head right down into it. I also used treats to teach him to pick up his feet easier. At first I had to really pull his feet up and it was a struggle. Again every time I picked up his foot I gave him a piece of carrot and now i just have to run my hand down his leg and he lifts up. These only took one short session for him to figure it out, and now I have a horse who is easy to pick up his feet with and easy to bridle. He is a little nippy since I started but I'm going to spend another session teaching him that when he stops being nippy and stands quietly he gets the treat
Cookies are good for Positive Reinforcement, but Timing is the most important thing with that. If you want to teach your horse something new, a cookie in that moment your horse does it right, tells him he is right and motivates him to do it again. So in that video at 3:30 when you give that horse a treat for nothing and after he is begging for more you give him again, you are reinforcing that behaviour. Cookies are good but mostly the problem is when people not use them correctly.
Exactly!!
That was the point of that bit - demonstrating what happens when you don't use treats for a specific behaviour and how quickly a horse can become pushy.
Not only is he getting cookied so much He is learning that he can push you back and push you around so much and basically kind of w to death because he wants a cookie and start taking advantage of you.
My mare is 16yrs & has been handfed treats her whole life. People just need to realize that there are rules around food delivery then the horse learns not to mug you . Clicker training using treats has enabled me to teach tricks like sticking out her tongue on cue & playing basketball that would be very difficult to obtain w/o the food reward.
Ive give my horses treats alot of times when I do groundwork exercises or stretch them. They still have to respect me, but it gives them motivation and we kind of playing around. I think its part of our bonding time and the horses gets happier if you stimulate their brain and they have to think.
That's exactly what I've found. I'm not a positive-only trainer but I love using treats as a way to create a stronger bond and to release a horse's emotions. It's like playing with them.
Yes I gave my horse treats after or before riding. And yes in the palm of my hand. Argued with my trainer on that one.
Pockets is a beautiful horse!
Haha it depends on if you are actually trying to train with positive reinforcement and willing to learn about the basics of it and how to do it correctly, or if you are simply giving your horse treats while you are training them.
You know I see people argue that they can't reward them in a timely manner.
Yeah. It's hard with dogs too. That's why you use a bridge - like a clicker. There's also rules to giving treats to maintain manners
And you can use markers to make pressure and release training more effective too
I have worked with numerous rescue horses from killpants and such over the past 15 plus years and I've had to use some treats and positive reinforcement to help with these horses with PTSD to learn to build up and retrain from negative behaviors but I do have some horses that actually do not care much for treats or are very particular about what kind of treats. I actually have had three or four of them that dislike apples and carrots or pears even and even certain horse treats so trying to find other ways that are very positive for them without being reactive or mistrusting of my intentions or interactions can be challenging.
Training is a lot like working with people (therapy) you have your fundamentals/base things that are the beginning but majority of work is working out and working off of that base to suit each individual
Treat manners are important. I only give the treat when my horse is looking straight ahead. This has to be taught, but it really works. My horse never mugs me for treats.
Love his colors.
Would love to see a video getting my mare to lay down.
For 30 years I've ridden and trained using negative reinforcement (pressure and release). But, over time, I realized that the horse is doing his job essentially because of learned helplessness. What that means is the horse gives to pressure because he sees no other viable option. Recently, I picked up a wild mustang and make the decision to try positive reinforcement (treats for performance) as 80-90% of the training. So, even when I incorporate some pressure and release, the correct answer is followed up with the treat. This mustang is a bit of an experiment for me, to try an entirely new style of training from start to finish.
Horses that I trained almost entirely on negative reinforcement/ pressure release, turned into obedient little soldiers on the ground and under saddle, but, weren't the happiest to come to me to be caught for work. Often, they'd start to walk away from me but then only turn to me to get caught because they knew that I would persist until caught... Learned helplessness.
This mustang that I started with positive reinforcement being 80-90% of the training, his mind and attitude towards training is different than any other horse (including other mustangs) that I've worked with. When he sees my truck coming, he gets excited. When I enter his corral, he always stops what he's doing and comes straight to me. He catches me. Not the other way around. Because he wants to work and earn the payout. New tasks only take a few tries to catch on. By the end of the first week with him, he went from wild and untouched to me holding up a halter and him putting his face into it on his own.
And, yes, we had to work through several days of learning to not be "muggy" or nippy for treats. It's actually really simple to teach a horse to not mug you... You don't give the treat until after they stop trying to mug you and their head returns to a neutral position. So now, when he hears the word "good", he returns his head to neutral to receive the treat, instead of trying to dig in my pockets or nip at my hands.
I'm blown away at how eager he is to not only find the right answer, but to do it quickly and so lightly in feel, from this training. It's more effective at getting the horse to **want** to with with you, instead of working with you only because there's no other viable option (slavery, helplessness).
If you think about it... Would you go to work 40 hours a week of physical labor for someone else if you were doing it out of force and got NO PAYCHECK? Ugh heck no! In using positive reinforcement, I feel like I'm working with my partner who is getting enough return out of their efforts to want to partner with me and work with me. My horse gets a "paycheck" and that paycheck is enough for him to say "ok what do you want me to do next?"
So, after 30 years of riding and training, this year is the biggest shift I have made, and I'm definitely not looking back.
But, I think it's super important for anyone who intends to use treats in training, to first learn all about how to prevent and correct horses that become "muggy". Starting treat training without a full understanding of how to successfully handle that, is a recipe for disaster. And it's such a simple lesson and concept... Just search UA-cam for "positive reinforcement muggy horses" and watch the video lessons on that before you start! That's the #1 complaint or "con" that people bring up with this type of training, so no big deal just master the prevention and correction of it first. All of the fantastic benefits far outweigh the cons.
Also, as training tasks become more complex, you stop treating for ever tiny little movement in the right direction. You can slowly phase out the treats so that they are eventually used only for the big gestures.
For example, halter training at first, the horse is treated for each step. Then treated for every 3 steps. Then every 10... Etc. For lunging, I set up 4 cones in a square around me, and treated every time the horse responded to my cue by walking around 1 cone then yielding the hindquarters back to me. At the end of the 1st session, I increased it to 2 cones before the reward comes. In our second session, we moved up to 3 cones (3/4 of a full circle) and then to a full circle before ending the session. By session 4, the cones are removed and the horse keeps going on the circle until I give the verbal cue to halt and receive the treat. Phasing out the treats at the right time and in the right way is what solves the problem of "you always have to have treats to do anything with the horse". Both of these "cons" are only "cons" if you haven't dove into the teachings enough to learn how to handle them. It's like, do you never fill your truck's gas tank because driving might get you into an accident? Of course not. You fill the tank and take all the proper safety cautions into account, and you learn how to be a good driver. You learn what actions on the road prevent accidents and avoid the ones that cause them.
Excellent video, btw. It's nice to see that you're open minded and experimenting. The way I look at it, all of these things are just tools in the toolbox. Some tools work better for specific jobs at hand, and learning as many tools as you can to put into your toolbox, makes you more likely to solve the next issue that comes up without any trouble.
The most effective scenarios for positive reinforcement / treat training, is with abused horses. And that's because it's the opposite of abuse, and it teaches the horse that while some horrible human in their past hurt them, that not all humans are like that and that a meaningful and rewarding partnership is possible, moving forward. It turned a negative situation into a positive one.
Thank you for your comment! I learned a lot. I’d like to talk with you more about your positive reinforcement training with your Mustang, as you don’t have videos :)
All is said - thanks for your comment. Sometimes when I read the comments, I feel sad. Horses don‘t have a choice. They just can‘t pack their bags and leave…they have to endure…😕
Let‘s make the world a bit better for them and praise them (whatever the horse likes: treats, scratches or words - it is so nice when they are proud, grow & shine), when they do a good job.
YUP THAT OLD PINTO KNEW THOSE TREATS ARE COMING. BOUGHT A LOVELY OLDER HALFLINGER WHO WAS ALWAYS WALKING AWAY, I WOULD WALK AROUND HIM AND WHEN HE TURNED TOWARD ME I WALKED UP AND TREATED HIM AND WE DO WHISTLE. HE COMES UP TO US LOOKING FOR THAT TREATS NOW. HE ALSO WAS DIFFICULT PICKING HIS FEET UP, SO PICK A HOOF, CLEAN IT, GIVE A TREAT. HE IS MAKING PROGRESS THAT WAY TOO. GREAT INSTRUCTION IN THIS VIDEO AS ALWAYS. Susan
R+ is only good when paired with good timing. Just like pressure & release. Bad timing means rewarding & reinforcing possibly the incorrect or even "bad" behavior. That’s why horses can get "muggy". It’s usually when the horse comes into their space, then they give a treat, then yeah, that’s reinforcing that behavior.
I will say that training with R+, horses are much more motivated & they learn faster. And if your environment or stimulus is scary for the horse it helps them switch back to a parasympathetic state very quickly! Especially if they’re used to being reinforced.
Thanks this was helpful I was using treats hand feeding for getting my pony to come to me walk with me and back up at liberty but now I just give him his treats on the ground because they are part of his food just oats and apples
He's in my pocket but if I own my space he's getting good at staying out of my pocket
I do let him at times but that narrows down the problem I have to work on I needed the reminder:)
More practice on boundaries but it is good that he's with me more too
Can't just look at the problem just keep spending the time
You have the most gorgeous horses!!!!
I did carrot stretches with my OTTB and he was the most limber thoroughbred in history 😂… that said, hand-feeding was something I was never a fan of because it encouraged biting, and I would just give my boy his carrots or treats on his grain after our ride. He always looked forward to it and was very well-mannered.
Working with a new mare, I use treats! 100%
I give my horses a piece of carrot after i put the halter on when i catch them in the paddock. I think its a good thing
I love doing it and they seem to like it too. 😊
I do clicker training and it’s just great! But it’s part of a definite training method. Politeness is absolutely the first rule! For instance my youngster would rear and paw when tied up. So, when tied up and standing nicely he got clicked and treated. Stopped misbehaving very quickly! Also zoos use clicker training to safely handle big animals especially.
I have 3 horses, 2 are super easy to catch, come to me when called and love getting to go out and work. Our OTTB gelding is stand offish, hard to catch extremely sensitive amd reactive. I am going to try the "catching, calling to me" technique to see if we can improve some of this. Thanks for sharing. I agree with you treat strategy and reccomendations.
We do carrot stretches all the time..
I rarely give treats to our horses, NOW! I used to give treats all the time. I found that they turn into pick pockets and always expect a treat and crowd the person space. My wife and I also do a ton of work at one of our local Horse Rescues. I try to curb her from giving too many but My Wife is known as the "HUMAN PEZZ DISPENSER!" LOL
I jumped head first into horses in my 30s. I quickly learned two things: I don’t let my horse eat grass on the halter and I don’t give them treats
Awesome!... thanks for doing
I know a friend who used to give her horses treats every day and she hardly did any thing with them. But when she wanted to she wonder why they played up on her & got abit dominant. I give my horses treat too but not all the time as I learnt my horse spartan got mouthy and he has nip me a few times when I had to stop that pretty quick. He's a kind loving horse but yep he can be abit pushy in your face at times.
I don't know how similar horses are to dogs, but I just went through months of trouble because I trained my dog with treats and then he would look at me like he didn't know what I was talking about if I asked him to sit without a treat. I weaned him from that to rewarding with play time, but it's still pretty much not doing anything unless he gets something. My dog was a pound puppy, so I don't know what his experience was before, but he just seems to have very little interest in pleasing us. Oh well, we'll keep working on it.
do you go to work and work well if you know you wont get any pay..?
would you work better if you had a secure pay?.. I would.
when there is no gain.. yeah hope u get it.
if the consequence of you not working would be your boss shouting at you or why not the whole team... to avoid that you work next time.
That horse comment "I have not behaved one single day in my life" cracked me up!
'Treating Without Mygging'
I have used clicker treating for years when I am teaching something new or for a great response ie. good stop
for rewarding the behavior or response. They dont expect a treat & so don't mug you for food. They hear the click which I do with my mouth. Then their ears pop fwd & they know they have done something good and are getting a treat. With a very food orientated horse it wld be only for extra special behavior. I do this when riding too.
Treating came to my rescue recently. There is a lovely, but skittish OTTB at my barn who has been for all intents and purposes, abandoned by his teen owner when she lost interest. I have been giving a treat to her horse whenever I visited my own horse and he became comfortable around me and looked for me when I called him. Recently, he got out of his pasture while I was grooming mine in the barn, and appeared loose up at the barn. I fortunately had a carrot piece in my pocket and he came when I called and I was able to slip a lead rope over his head and lead him back to pasture. The other boarder at the barn at the time was amazed because she knew he was quite skittish. Darn, I wish I could afford two horses. He would be mine.
Great teaching videos Ryan. Please could you increase the volume on your future videos. Some of us don't hear so well. 😄
it helped me to give treats to my mustang - I will say it is a fine line - my mustang had to have some form of motivation - wild horses could care less about people - they never needed humans for food and water - so with mine it was really necessary - however I will say I had times when I noticed he was too in my pocket - so I stopped for a while..In new things it still helps him know he did great..I'll use treats a while then back off..but I can see all sides and there can be some downfalls if we aren't careful..
I also give my horse a treat in the barn, but not while we are working.
But I am not hard set on any rule.
I give treats for.. treats! I like to give my horses a cookie when they first come into the barn, after grooming/saddling, or right after a ride so that they see it as a fun thing. When I'm actively working with them majority of the time I don't use any treats for reinforcement. But I do it to make the overall experience more enjoyable for them. That way they can still focus on me but it's a little enrichment to their experience :)
I am thinking about this as well. I dont give treats as my horse was nippy when i first got him. But am thinking about using it as positive reinforcement. However will he assosiate the treat with the ride, or the fact that hes back in the barn and make the ride less fun? Im not sure!
@@TheQueenAndTheKing For me it's less about making a specific part of our session the fun part, but more about random incentives throughout. So my horses associate me with work but also play. It just makes things less monotonous for them in my experience. And I want mu horses to look forward to spending time in the barn and getting groomed rather than being barn sour :)
When I saw the title of the video, I thought it must be helmets!! But treats is right up there too!!
Well, it kinda depends on who you’re asking? According to every horse I asked, yes, absolutely, all the time! 🐴
I trained my share back in the day and found food as a reward/motivator decreases the horse's awareness.
They focus on the food/treat and not the task, their safety, or your safety.
Is this an absolute?
No.
But, for the most part I did not use food as a reward or motivator for those reasons.
"...Oh, well, I am the treat..." Best answer 100%!!!! (They get too grabby otherwise.....🤣)🤣🤣
Treats and positive reinforcement is amazing if done right and with boundaries taught and working lol. Usually the people that don’t do treat training or clicker training is the ones that don’t understand how to teach the horse patience, boundaries, etc. of course balancing positive and negative reinforcement is great for the horse mental and thinking
I use treats for the rare occasion that my horse has a very bad association with something so that it becomes more positive, but you'll never catch me with a fanny pack stopping my horse every 30 seconds to treat them 😂
Great video!! I think you have some awesome points!!
A mugging horse can be resolved by good timing only giving the horse a treat when he is away from you in a neutral position. this fixed my cookie monster horse in 2 sessions
Wouldn't it depend upon the horse that's being trained?
Definitely
It absolutely does! A "treat" is what is called a "primary reinforcer" in animal brain science. Depending on how the animal responds, you have to change the primary reinforcer you are using, which can be a different food that is less exciting, or something other than a food. Primary reinforcers create the fastest and longest lasting brain patterns during training, which is why when it is done well, people swear by it. Removing pressure is slower, but it is also very effective on prey animal species, because they have evolved to "avoid" situations where they would be eaten. A lot of the people doing positive reinforcement do it badly, or are getting lucky having success while using bad technique on an easy horse. When executed well (and that means different things for different horses), it works even with very challenging animals, but it requires you to learn a lot, and be very observant, patient, and analytical. When you see the people riding on the noses of killer whales... they did that with an extremely assertive and fearless animal that is very food motivated using food. When you pop through with positive reinforcement, you get FAST results, AND/OR a horse that associates the work with enjoyment and WANTS to do it! I think using pressure is probably a lot SAFER FOR NOVICES than positive reinforcment, because it makes the horse cautious with you. Positive reinforcement with a willful horse requires a truly expert hand.
Love this!!!😊
Pro-treat. I only give treats when they clearly have done something I asked them to do. Its simply a reward. Horses never mob me for treats, they know they only get them as a reward for a task.
Good Video...Thxs Ryan :)
Generally speaking, it so depends on the horse. My Haflinger took 5 minutes to learn to retrieve a brush with a few well timed treats. I am not kidding about how long it took. Now, he only gets a treat for being caught, and he gets all the treats I have (two or three). Then he doesn't look for them the rest of the time. Otherwise, he would be a 1500 pound mugger to whoever might step into his pasture. My Morgan mare thinks you are probably trying to poison her with the treats, but will work to her last ounce of strength with no treats if she knows what you want.
The girl that said, “oh, I am the treat.” is a moooooood 😂
Great video. Treats are a training aid that is very useful in certain situations. To be stubborn or dogmatic about either never or always using them is counterproductive.
Ah, a training video I really like ❤️🔥, positive, rewarding & fun 🍪
I did teach my horse to retrieve her bit using clicker training and treats. Worked well for that, but made sure I kept respect.
My horses love getting treats and it’s has strengthened our connection with each other. It makes them excited and happy. They are respectful and don’t get pushy. Why would I think about training with herd mentality when I’m not another horse?? If I behave like another horse I’m leaving myself open to be challenged and kicked etc right??? Makes no sense. I’m teaching my horses to work with me in my human world. It makes me sad that horses don’t get treated as well as dogs and cats. They are our pets and they deserve treats and being loved on. You can still have a respectful partner.
I agree… we ask so much from them… riding them carrying us asking for certain movement and performing how we want, being patient for us so we can groom them… but I also know we have to balance the treats out for something positive they do not just Willy nilly being a treat dispenser because I know that creates problems and could get aggressive.
Absolutely my horse gets treats! She’s never rude about asking though. Depends on the horse. My horse before she was under saddle would get maybe one treat. Now that she works 6 days a week she gets treats all throughout her ride for good answers. My trainer taught us to tap them on their neck first before the treat so they know when it’s time for a treat and not expecting it when they want it. Works well.
Also just to clarify (as a dog trainer this really gets my goat so I don't mean to sound agro sorry guys):
When you're training a new command, first you get the dog (horse) to do it consistently. So they're wanting to do the behaviour because it's worked so many times before.
THEN you add your cue, without body language, and if the dog performs, give a treat.
In order to use cues, the cue MUST PREDICT the ACT of going into a position, and treat. If you say it at the same time, you're not predicting at all. If you say sit while the dog is already sitting, you aren't training them to sit off a command. All you're doing is predicting a treat.
Definitely depends on the horse: if I have a fearful horse I will, and do positive reinforcement to help them turn their fear into curiosity.
The horses in my horse's pasture all gets treats from me (with permission from their owners). When training them to not mob me I also had a short little dressage whip with me so they knew to give me space and only come in for treats when I want them to. It worked and now I am miss popular when I go out into the pasture, but they respect my space when I am trying to catch my horse.
Pets, scratches, and change in tone of voice can be rewards, too. I have a cookie monster who gets a growly, low pitch "wrong answer" and a higher pitch, almost baby talk "good girl" when she gets it right. Its basically 2 different pitches of clicker training, I just dont always have my clickers. Her mother gets the stretch cookies, cuz she's old and arthritic, and won't move properly without her back and neck stretch.
Got my horse and he was already 13 years old but I do use treats when I greet him always. So now, my car just pulls up the driveway and he comes to the gate 😅. He also comes on call in the pasture. He also gets a treat after he gets saddled up. And then a salad bowl with fruit after a training session. I don't use treats during training most times. I like the idea of them for stretching though I'll try that.
Thank you so much for addressing pushy cookie monsters that owners and some 'trainers/horsemen' are creating! Treats to facilitate physical therapy or during bonding sessions of just saying hello in the pasture are awesome, but creating a reward system for training is dangerous and counter to being a leader to your horse. Stallions in the wild or alpha mares don't produce cookies - there's no reason you should in a training environment when you're building a partnership.
Brilliant
I’m not another horse though. I’m teaching my horses to live in a human world. I feel bad for horses that get treated less than other pets.
Except they DO produce cookies. It's giving the horse space to graze.
and the fact that our horses are domesticated just goes over your head trying to hang on to the dominance theories LOL
Bruh if your horse is turning into a pushy cookie monster that's your damn fault for not setting boundaries. I'm a R+ trainer. First thing I teach my horses is to keep their head away when I'm treating them.
look up diagrams of our brain vs a horses brain and you'll see for yourself, their prefrontal cortex is nearly non existent. That means quite literally that they do not have the brain needed to understand the concept of dominance or respect. Fact, not opinion.
Herd hierarchies have nothing to do with dominance, lol. Setting boundaries has nothing to do with dominance.
In a typical life for the domesticated horse, resources that are abundant in the wild are limited. Herd mates, water troughs, even grass. This creates a pseudo-dominance hierarchy and the behaviors you see from this are resource guarding. Simply providing enough friends (herd mates), freedom (acreage), and forage (hay / grass) can cut back on a lot of the behaviors humans label as "aggressive". Herd animals are peaceful by nature, that's how they survive together, and when they aren't, it's up to you to figure out why that is instead of labelling it some human label that the horse has no concept of.
Please stop anthropomorphizing horses.
My ponies all got treats on the pony ride IF they were polite about taking them. The kids loved it and so did the ponies. The trests were usually a carrot
So funny that you addressed this. Warwick Schiller just started doing videos on clicker training -- like yesterday! IMO it's not possible to manage treats unless they are given sparingly, and at specific times -- like when you catch the horse, when you put the horse away, after working or being ridden, etc. OR if you give them within the structure of clicker training. And CT has to be done very methodically and carefully. And always with opposing behaviors -- like coming to touch a target, and then backing up. But good for you for tackling this.
WS has been messing with R+ forever. He’s got an extensive toolbox.
@@lizarutherford2477 True, but prior to this, he just demonstrated the tricks he taught his horses. (Or maybe just the one horse. Bundy?) Now he is actually teaching clicker training - starting new with one of their colts.
Only in the bucket ; a cowboy taught me that . The yearling I bought became not only a famous show hunter but extremely loving .
Here for it!! 😁
Would say to use treats or not depends on alot of different things, ofc you probably shouldn't give treats all the time every time, but for big brand new things that could be scary, maybe a bit of a treat, verbal and physical possitive reinforcement is nice but as a person that doesn't get very many gifts or "treats" or anything it does feel real nice and it is more encouraging when say...i may get a pizza party in school if i do well, yes good grades are the main treat but the extra bit is nice
It depends on the horse. I had a horse that had had changes done on him one by my trainer, but he would not do them for me. I finally got one and he got a treat. The next time I asked, I got a change and he got a treat. It took about a month to wean him off the treats. He had to do 2 changes before he got a treat. But hey, he learned his changes and I never had a problem with them again.
I think the part everyone forgets is that if your horse is asking for a treat you can say no. I think horses are smart enough to know that you won’t let them get away with that. I guess every horse is different, but I give horses treats whenever I want, but give their nose a little push away if they get too eager. I think if they get treats often they are much less likely to be over excited about it. The notion that it encourages them to bite is silly. Do horses give each other cookies? And yet they bite each other all the time. I don’t feel it has to do with treats, it’s just a form of communication, and they understand that they get the anti-treat if they go to biting a human.
I've seen many people create cookie monsters that became nippy over time which drove me crazy, because it is so preventable. I would use treats as a reward for the more troubled rescue horses I worked with when they would do something very good like allowing me to put on a blanket or fly mask (but only if they were just learning and were terrified of such things) or needing to do certain things with the blind horses. I feel it's good and bad in certain situations, especially if you compare a horse that is just being trained or one that has gone through abuse/neglect and are reaching new milestones through learning to trust again.
Pockets is just divine! That is my favorite coat. As far as treating goes, I do not treat during most training, but they may get a peppermint afterwards if they do really well.
I have a young rider that loves giving treats…I have mixed feelings about giving treats having dealt with a few pushy horses in my life…but this clip really explains when and how to give treats..Perfect! I am going to send this to her and not only will this explain things more clearly than I can but will give her effective tips for games to do with her horse and maybe have a new Ryan Rose follower.❤️❤️
Anne Gibbons settled this for me. Her advice was, treats are given by the rider or the trainer during the ride or training, never in the barn, or they turn into pigs. The sugar comes with work done well, along with verbal praise. My horses have always enjoyed their work more after my discussion with Anne.
Read almost all the comments and I believe yours is the best answer
Have you ever watched Sam van Fleet? She only allows treats if they have a nice headset, she teaches them to be respectful if they want the treat, so they won’t be pushy.😊
I like to use them to get a horse to stand still when mounting.
I only give my horse “treats” when we are doing stretches or when I’m asking her to do something she may not particularly like, but only right after as positive reinforcement. Always use the 3 second rule and like Ryan says in certain circumstances.
Super interesting topic. I'd love to work under Ryan. He's the best trainer I've seen.
I don't own a horse yet, however I own three dogs. I treat when they finally do the trick on their own. When I am helping I will say good sit, or good lay down to reinforce the command. Then after they have voice commands down I work on hand commands. It's worked through 4 dogs so far. ❤️
yup. but I trained with hand first then later on added a cue, and just waited for them to figure it out. like she wanted the reward enough to try.
by now she has a whole show to pull up when she wants to.
agree, I use treats on my OTTB rescue and it helps him realize work can be fun vs hard. my quarter horse was a treat monster but he got them just for being alive 38 yrs...nothing he did was wrong in my eyes at that age.
I do give treats, but only in his grain bowl. If we have a good session, he gets a little snack(usually 1-2lbs of grass) afterwards.if we have a great session, he'll get some treats in his grain bowl at dinner time. I used to carry some with me,but like you said, it can lead to some problems, so I stopped. He went through some "treat withdrawls"😅 but we worked past it.
Recently, I've been getting more of the great sessions. Wonder if he's figured that out..🤔
I've seen too many treat sour horses for me to ever consider using treats for training. I have been to shows where as soon as the horse steps out of the arena it expects a treat, and if it doesn't get a treat it gets irritated. There are so many other ways to give positive reinforcement that do not have the same negative effect as using treats. Plus a lot of those treats are extremely calorically dense and high in sugars which is why so many owners that rely on treats as a training tool have fat horses.
I agree, they start to expect a treat for everything they do. I think that is bad training personally
I was thinking about giving the horses treats today!
But the treat would take them out of the moment, faster than I would like.
Everything is going great so I guess,
If it ain’t broke…….
I love giving my horses treats! It's as much for my enjoyment as theirs. Last fall, I bought a Missouri Fox Trotter who was the most spoiled horse for treats I've ever seen! It was constant, and you could barely make a move without her mugging and almost knocking you over. I'm 78 years old, and can't have a 1200# pet knocking me over! Not only that, because this had been allowed, it was causing her a lot of treat anxiety. She would almost get your fingers in her mouth with her flapping lips because she was so intent on getting the treat. It's easy to fix. She had to learn that she doesn't get a treat until her head is looking straight ahead, and not showing any interest in the treat. To begin with, I had to gently push her head away a dozen times. She is much more calm now, and is taking the treat more gently than before. No more mugging. I can take a treat out of my pocket and she may look, hopefully, but doesn't try to get it and she doesn't get it until she is looking straight ahead.
For me it depends on the horse and what we are training - for really food driven horses who are mouthy I will use a treat stick or a dish. But I've worked with horses who won't even eat them, and I've worked with horses who are too distracted and won't focus on the work. There's a lot of variables that can change how many, what kind, and if I even use any treats.
I totally agree with this video!!
I just started using treats to halter my hard to catch horse-(my fault…I was only catching him when we were going to ride). I am starting to change that habit as well.
I do want to teach him to come when I call him.
great videos!
Wow Emily's horse is so pretty!!!!
Treats to come back to the barn when called, treats after a ride, treats for standing to be haltered.
My mare has really progressed in her training with treats. They aren't every day... once a week maybe. But she really tries hard when she knows I have them. Must be respectful at all times.