I find it interesting that normal map cannot represent deep extrusions. Surely that is simply a matter of magnitude? If I use a 48-bit normal map then amplify to 10x its captured extrusion, why would that not create deep extrusions? Also, given that it captures x and y position data, can a normal map represent overhanging surfaces, and if not, are there are maps that can?
You can definitely try to represent deeper extrusions, to varying degrees of success. Its all on a case by case basis, and it mostly comes back to simply just the viewing angle of it. The one problem with amplifying your Normal Map 10x is that it creates harsh Normals for your model so light might not actually interact with the map appropriately. Areas that were intended to be soft might now have very sharp features, and everything looks like you brought it through a "deepfried meme generator". That's not always the case, but is a common possible outcome. Because the Normal Map doesn't actually affect geometry, identifying overhanging areas again really comes down to how deep it hangs over, what you need the players to see based on the angle of view in the game, and are they going to see it that way? If a Normal Map cannot provide that information for you, I wouldn't necessarily recommend another map but rather just to actually model the lip/overhang with geometry. If you wanted to create geometry through maps, I would suggest taking a look at Vector Maps as well, as it works the same way as a Height Map, however it also provides access to the Z direction, allowing you to create lips and overhangs like you've mentioned. :)
@@GetLearnt I thought about this more deeply. A normal map cannot, under any current circumstances represent an overhang. Imagine a flat surface with a concrete slab extruding from it. Easy enough to represent with a normal map right? Imagine three adjacent points in x space each of which is defined by a z value something llike 0; 128; 0 - zero being the surface and 128 being the slab height. Now put a space above the slab, and then another slab (overhang). There is to my knowledge, no means to input multiple values for a single vector. You would need 0; (128,32,96); 0 - the32 being the space and 96 being the thickness of the overhang above. Given that a normal is only capable of holding a single C,M,Y value, it is incapable of representing a string like that, do you agree?
@@Martial-Mat Definitely a heavy technical approach! More so what I mean is that you can potentially give the "illusion" of an overhang, but like I said it all depends on the viewing angle because while Normal Maps provide "falsified" normals for lighting, what it cannot do is actually alter the geometry. So if you were to look at this flat plane at a distance from straight overtop, you might not be convinced it was a tall-standing pillar. BUT, you could possibly believe there was an extrusion from the ground. However, if you looked at it from the side, all you would see is the flat surface with a Normal Map. I was more intending to say you could create the illusion that there is surface information, but for large deformations like that you would absolutely need geometry, which you could get by either modeling it, using a Height Map to displace the geo, or use a Vector Map for essentially the same purpose. Something as complex as what you are suggesting is totally outside the possibility of a Normal Map, at least the way I'm reading what you're saying. Totally agree! :)
I needed to remember what a normal map was after hearing the Unreal Engine 5 has no need for them. Sayonara normal maps (for UE5 games at least)
This video will become a relic of days gone by! We will see what the future brings for textures. :D
I find it interesting that normal map cannot represent deep extrusions. Surely that is simply a matter of magnitude? If I use a 48-bit normal map then amplify to 10x its captured extrusion, why would that not create deep extrusions? Also, given that it captures x and y position data, can a normal map represent overhanging surfaces, and if not, are there are maps that can?
You can definitely try to represent deeper extrusions, to varying degrees of success. Its all on a case by case basis, and it mostly comes back to simply just the viewing angle of it. The one problem with amplifying your Normal Map 10x is that it creates harsh Normals for your model so light might not actually interact with the map appropriately. Areas that were intended to be soft might now have very sharp features, and everything looks like you brought it through a "deepfried meme generator". That's not always the case, but is a common possible outcome.
Because the Normal Map doesn't actually affect geometry, identifying overhanging areas again really comes down to how deep it hangs over, what you need the players to see based on the angle of view in the game, and are they going to see it that way? If a Normal Map cannot provide that information for you, I wouldn't necessarily recommend another map but rather just to actually model the lip/overhang with geometry. If you wanted to create geometry through maps, I would suggest taking a look at Vector Maps as well, as it works the same way as a Height Map, however it also provides access to the Z direction, allowing you to create lips and overhangs like you've mentioned. :)
@@GetLearnt I thought about this more deeply. A normal map cannot, under any current circumstances represent an overhang. Imagine a flat surface with a concrete slab extruding from it. Easy enough to represent with a normal map right? Imagine three adjacent points in x space each of which is defined by a z value something llike 0; 128; 0 - zero being the surface and 128 being the slab height. Now put a space above the slab, and then another slab (overhang). There is to my knowledge, no means to input multiple values for a single vector. You would need 0; (128,32,96); 0 - the32 being the space and 96 being the thickness of the overhang above. Given that a normal is only capable of holding a single C,M,Y value, it is incapable of representing a string like that, do you agree?
@@Martial-Mat Definitely a heavy technical approach! More so what I mean is that you can potentially give the "illusion" of an overhang, but like I said it all depends on the viewing angle because while Normal Maps provide "falsified" normals for lighting, what it cannot do is actually alter the geometry. So if you were to look at this flat plane at a distance from straight overtop, you might not be convinced it was a tall-standing pillar. BUT, you could possibly believe there was an extrusion from the ground. However, if you looked at it from the side, all you would see is the flat surface with a Normal Map. I was more intending to say you could create the illusion that there is surface information, but for large deformations like that you would absolutely need geometry, which you could get by either modeling it, using a Height Map to displace the geo, or use a Vector Map for essentially the same purpose. Something as complex as what you are suggesting is totally outside the possibility of a Normal Map, at least the way I'm reading what you're saying. Totally agree! :)
@@GetLearnt :-) thanks for your thoughts. Valuable insights.
Can you make crystal material tutorial 🥺🥺🥺
Those puppy dog eyes emojis kill me. 😂 What kind of crystals were you thinking of?
@@GetLearnt like kryptonite 🤓🤓
@@sheykaja5273 I can make no promises, but I will definitely take a look! :)
@@GetLearnt thanks bro love from India 😍😍
@@GetLearnt That would be a fantastic opportunity to do a more expanded tutorial on IOF, diffusion, and caustics and as well...