Give the Dragon the freeze water spell and have your martial characters have to wade through water to hit it in melee, then the Dragon could take off and freeze the water leaving the player characters trapped in or under it. The Dragon can then consentrate on the more squishy characters while the tougher ones are stuck. The other players also have a choice if they want to help free the trapped ones or protect themselves against the Dragon.
Lair actions, like making a small Wall Of Ice (10 feet high, 10 feet long) pop up at will, to cut off a PC's escape, or block an archer's line of fire, could be a smart way to mess with the players.
I enchanted the fortress roof as unconnected slabs of stone covered in ice. As soon as they broke the ice, the slabs floated like the magnetized boulders in Journey to the Center of the Earth (think floating asteroids in zero grav). Players had to spend time making DEX saves for balancing, climbing, avoiding slippery ice patches & not flipping the floating slabs & falling. I had Cryovain make flying passes & smash through floors & walls (played him like he was an adult dragon). Ended up flinging 2 players off the mountain & another down below to the lower floors. Breath weapon froze the entire fortress over (floors, walls, ceiling, etc) doors included. 3 members died & they just barely scraped by thanks to a few good spell choices by the cleric & melee damage done by the rogue with an attuned dragon-slayer weapon. It never occurred to me that Cryovain was too easy but I guess if you play him exact to his stat block I can see that.
This is great. My player are playing a Lost mines/ice spire game and they are now planning on fighting the dragon. For a party of 3+1 side kick who stomps I will most likely use these points
I played Icepire peak just before Icewind Dale and made a decision as the dm that Cryovain (dragon of icepire peak) is the son of Arveiaturace. Made it a lot more enjoyable roleplaying Cryovain and his pain of being pushed away from Icewind Dale :)
Wow! I had already done most of what you said. In the vision you get at the shrine I reviled that its in fact a pair of white dragons guarding their egg, I replaced the stirges with ice mephits and there gonna emerge from random ice clusters as lair actions along side walls of ice to act like a moving maze that also have large ice spikes to be tossed into. Not sure if its too much or too little my players are kinda new but do crazy stuff like cast fly on the pet owlbear and have the goblin life cleric ride it... Party is lvl6. Evocation wizard with an ow lbear and an imp familiar, life cleric and, 3lvlchampion fighter/3lvl trickster rogue multiclass with a pet direwolf. I know crazy sounding right? I mixed the lost mines and Icespire into one so there geared to the teeth and some dumb reason always roll close to max hit points lol.
Ten gold buys a Magic Mouth ritual spell cast on any simple object in return for Cryovain not freezing a level 3 Wizard to his spell book. A number of these can make a cheap perimeter that can be set to go off if something other than a dragon approaches. Once positioned, the ritual lasts until dispelled.
My girlfriend was new to DMing, and although she doubled its HP, she didn't know better, so the final battle of the campaign was super disappointing. Really felt bad for her as we were very well prepared and organizationed as a party, and ended up killing it in two turns, with some of us not even getting a turn to attack and none of us took any damage! They really could have done a lot more to help new DMs scale this battle instead of making it so pathetic. Previously I DMd the LMoP with the same group and they managed to kill the young green dragon, which was a really good battle. We were all expecting so much more from this adventure.
Overall I find Dragon of Icespire Peak lacking in comparaison to LMoP, but they work really well if you merge them into a single campaign and scale the encounters that are too easy to become challenging for the players. I was disapointed after running 2 or 3 sessions of DoIP, it felt very railroad, easy and empty. But after merging it with LMoP it suddenly became this diversified and full world where adventure awaits at every turn, and the players get to decide what lead they wanna follow. Much better than have the entire world centered around the menace of Cryovain.
Big Thanks ! Those were the exact ideas I had. But it's my first time DMing or playing DnD and I was afraid it might be too much for the players. Tho they are new to DnD as well, they are experienced tactical gamers. I thought of making the Young white dragon a female on the cusp of turning adult (to justify giving it max HP and legendary resistances). The reason for her aggresive hunting lately is that she is currently in her mating period, so there might be an extra adult white dragon in the lair, or appear mid fight, I'll see how it goes and if it looks like they're cheesing her I'll bring in the reinforcements. Ice-based lair actions, like CON save freezing winds, or DEX save icicles falling from the ceiling. Still haven't gone through the details the players only hit lvl 3 last session.
I will be using several ideas from this video and the comments. I like the 2nd Dragon idea. But will have the rumors of seeing the dragon conflict with each other where they heroes overhear two people heatedly discussing seeing a dragon in different areas at the same time of the day. I also, tend to have dragons also having the ability to take on human form and be spell-casters. Though the spells tend to be fitting for their dragon type - ice/freezing type spells for White Dragons, fire-based spells for red dragons and so-forth. In their humanoid form they also will have a breath weapon like the like-kind Dragon Born breath weapon stats. That means that the heroes may even have conversations with a dragon in their humanoid form without realizing it outside of noticing a slight temp change for ice- and fire-based dragons, static electricity for blue dragons, swampy or rotting vegetation smell for Black Dragons, and so-forth. So maybe I will have them in town talk with Cryovain in humanoid form just before they leave to confront for the fortress warning the heroes to be careful because a mother dragon guarding its young is very dangerous and her mate even more-so in protecting her and its young. Maybe that will be an almost adult male Cryovain warning them. When they get to the fortress maybe they will encounter a Cryovain’s mate with a wyrmling or an egg there. As the heroes begin to engage, from the clouds they hear, “I warned you!” and Cryovain attacks as his mate, a younger than Cryovain dragon attacks also. But, if need be, she will grab the egg and fly off with it to place it in a more secure location and then return to the fight. Should be fairly challenging for a party if 7 level 6-7 characters by that time. Okay, this video and the comments got my creative juices flowing. Thanks to all.
The idea of having a mate to Cryovain, maybe even a dragonegg they both guard opens up so much potential as for example it gives much more depth to the simple "I kill everything I see" attitude of the dragon as he or she is raiding the area, just caring for it's unhatched dragonling.
I use dragons as significant influences in the game world. they work plans within plans within plans. Cryovain would be trying to use the PCs to further his plans. also, only 1 round of combat! the dragon isn't dumb. while the PCs arrive, he is assessing thier capabilities. he would know the strength of thier magic items and what silver they have (preferred treasure of white dragons). during the first round, he would simply leave. it's a continuing character that can and should be manipulating other powers in the area, to include the PCs. for the dragon, it's not about the fight, but achieving his own goals. as GM, my version of Cryovain has his claws into everything going on in the mountains and the lands near Phandalin. he is a significant power. now add in Venomfang (green dragon from the starter set) and your PCs should have a real mess on thier hands. are the dragons working together or are they in opposition to each other. so many options, many more than simply killing a beast!
Great advice here, but just wanted to add some of the things I did for the Cryovain encounter: Firstly, was to give him a treasure hoard. I rolled a random hoard off of the DMG and rolled a Headband of Intellect, which I had him wear. This also justified me using more sophisticated tactics as he became much smarter than normal (an Ancient White Dragon has an int score of 10, so they're by far the dumbest of all dragons) Secondly was to use the variant rule for spellcasting dragons. With the Young White Dragon's stats, Cryovain can know one 2nd level spell. The spell I chose was Darkness, which creates a very nasty situation for the players as Cryovain has Blindsight and thus isn't impeded by the spell I also maxed his HP and gave him Lair Actions (which should've been in the module to begin with). Though I will say giving him 3 Legendary Resistances is a bit excessive, I think one might be enough I like the idea of Ice Mephits as minions, bit might I also suggest Kobolds as well. You could even have a Winged Kobold with Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer levels as Cryovain's lieutenant
For falling damage, imagine the PC not smacking directly into the level ground, but instead bouncing off of a snowy slope, for comedic effect. Several bounces later, the PC is at the bottom of the mountain, took some damage (maybe half, save for 1/4), and has to find a way back up to the top. Best for an arrogant character, take the wind out of his sails, so to speak.
I think there is a lot that can be done with this campaign. It wasn't just the Dragon that was a bit of a problem though, it felt a little staged the point at which you go to its lair. I think a timer of gradually worsening attacks and I would have liked a bit more problem solving revolving around finding its lair and then being able to enter. There were plenty of opportunities for this sort of information.
I have always felt that a dragon that fights on the ground isnt a properly-run dragon at all. So the first thing is to never engage in melee with the characters. Cant use that nice Dragon Slayer sword if the dragon never lets you. I use breath attacks at every recharge. Dragons do flyby swoop attacks, only landing if they have to. And yes, this is a lair so he gets lair actions. My party almost TPK'd against Cryovain and the melee players who didnt bring a single missile weapon along were pretty useless. The one time he landed I had the perfect opportunity to tail swipe an especially irritating player off the side of the castle wall and I held back for some reason. I broke my rule to always play dragons to their fullest to make them very fun encounters. But other than him landing that once, Cryovain stayed in the air. He did eventually fly away because he's a dragon after all (and he makes a return appearance in Giants anyway).
I love the idea of Cryovain being the BBEG of Icespire, but the pre-BBEG of Lost Mines, as the true BBEG . Spoilers for Lost Mines of Phandelver . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Venomfang (never thought the Spider was very good as a BBEG) pulls the strings needed to have the party take down Cryovain and cross another rival off thier list. Venomfang just seems so much more cunning and clever than the book illustrates, and it would be such a Green Dragon move to manipulate everything to work in thier favor.
Experienced Players will find it easy, but what about people that are Beginners? Is Cryovain easy for Beginners? What if I as a Dungeonmaster would try to be as brutal and mean as possible? Aren’t White Dragons known for her ferocity? Maybe, Cryovain will get alarmed and break into parts of the Hold, or use his Breathweapon?
I'm just a noob DM but... Do people really run the adventures "as is"? Doesn't that limit replayability? On my first run of DoIP, Cryovain was, obviously, an adult dragon that visited Phandalin in human form periodically. He even gave the players some quests. On Icespire Peak, they met Cryovain in human form and he transformed in front of them after a meaningful conversation. The second time I ran DoIP it was something completely different. I mean... Aren't adventures just a template for the DMs to put things on?
the roof of the keep has a sheet of ice. having the dragon sleeping inside the ice and burrow and attack through the ice. the characters will never see him half the time. also the dragon has a horde of items. let him burrow and eat potions to heal when he needs to. and also give him a magic item or minions. the heroes can deal with the ice burrowing by lighting the fireplaces. it will nerf the fight and make the characters feel like they figured something out and epicly one. even if the dragon is easier because of this.
thank you, Fred, for the many ideas
You are always welcome :)
Starter Set: TPK in first encounter.
Essentials Kit: Kill Big Bad Dragon in it's sleep.
Oh, how times have changed.
lol.
Tbf essentials kit has your party of new players fight a manticore lvl which is an easy TPL aswell
@@jake_3745 It depends on the parties approach.
Give the Dragon the freeze water spell and have your martial characters have to wade through water to hit it in melee, then the Dragon could take off and freeze the water leaving the player characters trapped in or under it.
The Dragon can then consentrate on the more squishy characters while the tougher ones are stuck.
The other players also have a choice if they want to help free the trapped ones or protect themselves against the Dragon.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Lair actions, like making a small Wall Of Ice (10 feet high, 10 feet long) pop up at will, to cut off a PC's escape, or block an archer's line of fire, could be a smart way to mess with the players.
Yes or just use the lairs actions for the white Dragon. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Paul.
I enchanted the fortress roof as unconnected slabs of stone covered in ice. As soon as they broke the ice, the slabs floated like the magnetized boulders in Journey to the Center of the Earth (think floating asteroids in zero grav). Players had to spend time making DEX saves for balancing, climbing, avoiding slippery ice patches & not flipping the floating slabs & falling. I had Cryovain make flying passes & smash through floors & walls (played him like he was an adult dragon). Ended up flinging 2 players off the mountain & another down below to the lower floors. Breath weapon froze the entire fortress over (floors, walls, ceiling, etc) doors included. 3 members died & they just barely scraped by thanks to a few good spell choices by the cleric & melee damage done by the rogue with an attuned dragon-slayer weapon. It never occurred to me that Cryovain was too easy but I guess if you play him exact to his stat block I can see that.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts Ronald.
This is great. My player are playing a Lost mines/ice spire game and they are now planning on fighting the dragon. For a party of 3+1 side kick who stomps I will most likely use these points
I am glad it was helpful Rath.
"murdered while he sleeps..." LOL. Fred, you kill me, sir.
lol. Stan I do try. Thank God I am taming it down for the UA-cam police.
The Ice Mephit guard is a cool idea. And I actually have a Mephit mini in my collection!
I am glad you liked the idea :)
I played Icepire peak just before Icewind Dale and made a decision as the dm that Cryovain (dragon of icepire peak) is the son of Arveiaturace. Made it a lot more enjoyable roleplaying Cryovain and his pain of being pushed away from Icewind Dale :)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Doon.
All great ideas! I might go with the second dragon idea, they think it's just one and then SURPRISE 😮!
Thanks Jim. All the best with your game :)
Merry Christmas Fred. Hope to use your suggestions to appropriately challenge my players.
Merry Christmas Timothy. I hope it provides to be useful.
Wow! I had already done most of what you said. In the vision you get at the shrine I reviled that its in fact a pair of white dragons guarding their egg, I replaced the stirges with ice mephits and there gonna emerge from random ice clusters as lair actions along side walls of ice to act like a moving maze that also have large ice spikes to be tossed into. Not sure if its too much or too little my players are kinda new but do crazy stuff like cast fly on the pet owlbear and have the goblin life cleric ride it... Party is lvl6. Evocation wizard with an ow lbear and an imp familiar, life cleric and, 3lvlchampion fighter/3lvl trickster rogue multiclass with a pet direwolf. I know crazy sounding right? I mixed the lost mines and Icespire into one so there geared to the teeth and some dumb reason always roll close to max hit points lol.
You will find out if it's tomuch for the crazy party. Thanks for sharing your process and thoughts Richard.
Ten gold buys a Magic Mouth ritual spell cast on any simple object in return for Cryovain not freezing a level 3 Wizard to his spell book. A number of these can make a cheap perimeter that can be set to go off if something other than a dragon approaches. Once positioned, the ritual lasts until dispelled.
Thanks for sharing your idea Arch.
My girlfriend was new to DMing, and although she doubled its HP, she didn't know better, so the final battle of the campaign was super disappointing. Really felt bad for her as we were very well prepared and organizationed as a party, and ended up killing it in two turns, with some of us not even getting a turn to attack and none of us took any damage!
They really could have done a lot more to help new DMs scale this battle instead of making it so pathetic.
Previously I DMd the LMoP with the same group and they managed to kill the young green dragon, which was a really good battle. We were all expecting so much more from this adventure.
That is a shame. There's a lot of work to sort out Dragon of Icespire Peak. Thanks for sharing what happened to you and your girlfriend.
You seen monster Manual expanded in Dmsguild? It has a new category of young adult to bridge gap. That helped a lot.
Overall I find Dragon of Icespire Peak lacking in comparaison to LMoP, but they work really well if you merge them into a single campaign and scale the encounters that are too easy to become challenging for the players. I was disapointed after running 2 or 3 sessions of DoIP, it felt very railroad, easy and empty. But after merging it with LMoP it suddenly became this diversified and full world where adventure awaits at every turn, and the players get to decide what lead they wanna follow. Much better than have the entire world centered around the menace of Cryovain.
Big Thanks ! Those were the exact ideas I had. But it's my first time DMing or playing DnD and I was afraid it might be too much for the players. Tho they are new to DnD as well, they are experienced tactical gamers. I thought of making the Young white dragon a female on the cusp of turning adult (to justify giving it max HP and legendary resistances). The reason for her aggresive hunting lately is that she is currently in her mating period, so there might be an extra adult white dragon in the lair, or appear mid fight, I'll see how it goes and if it looks like they're cheesing her I'll bring in the reinforcements. Ice-based lair actions, like CON save freezing winds, or DEX save icicles falling from the ceiling. Still haven't gone through the details the players only hit lvl 3 last session.
You are welcome. I think you will do fine 🙂
Really like that image of the levitating Pathfinder iconic witch. What book was that from?
Pathfinder. Not sure of the book, sorry.
@@HowtoRPG No problem. Thanks for the reply. Cool pic, though :)
@@HowtoRPG I just found it by chance in the Reign of Winter AP. Great picture.
@@DG-zi4zg Great.
I will be using several ideas from this video and the comments. I like the 2nd Dragon idea. But will have the rumors of seeing the dragon conflict with each other where they heroes overhear two people heatedly discussing seeing a dragon in different areas at the same time of the day.
I also, tend to have dragons also having the ability to take on human form and be spell-casters. Though the spells tend to be fitting for their dragon type - ice/freezing type spells for White Dragons, fire-based spells for red dragons and so-forth. In their humanoid form they also will have a breath weapon like the like-kind Dragon Born breath weapon stats.
That means that the heroes may even have conversations with a dragon in their humanoid form without realizing it outside of noticing a slight temp change for ice- and fire-based dragons, static electricity for blue dragons, swampy or rotting vegetation smell for Black Dragons, and so-forth.
So maybe I will have them in town talk with Cryovain in humanoid form just before they leave to confront for the fortress warning the heroes to be careful because a mother dragon guarding its young is very dangerous and her mate even more-so in protecting her and its young.
Maybe that will be an almost adult male Cryovain warning them. When they get to the fortress maybe they will encounter a Cryovain’s mate with a wyrmling or an egg there. As the heroes begin to engage, from the clouds they hear, “I warned you!” and Cryovain attacks as his mate, a younger than Cryovain dragon attacks also. But, if need be, she will grab the egg and fly off with it to place it in a more secure location and then return to the fight. Should be fairly challenging for a party if 7 level 6-7 characters by that time.
Okay, this video and the comments got my creative juices flowing. Thanks to all.
I am glad it helped. All the best Lynn.
If I were a new player, I would be more intrigued by the game if the dragon defeated the party. But I come from the oldschool ;)
So do I. Thanks for watching Esper.
The idea of having a mate to Cryovain, maybe even a dragonegg they both guard opens up so much potential as for example it gives much more depth to the simple "I kill everything I see" attitude of the dragon as he or she is raiding the area, just caring for it's unhatched dragonling.
I agree, give a try.
I use dragons as significant influences in the game world. they work plans within plans within plans. Cryovain would be trying to use the PCs to further his plans. also, only 1 round of combat! the dragon isn't dumb. while the PCs arrive, he is assessing thier capabilities. he would know the strength of thier magic items and what silver they have (preferred treasure of white dragons). during the first round, he would simply leave. it's a continuing character that can and should be manipulating other powers in the area, to include the PCs. for the dragon, it's not about the fight, but achieving his own goals.
as GM, my version of Cryovain has his claws into everything going on in the mountains and the lands near Phandalin. he is a significant power. now add in Venomfang (green dragon from the starter set) and your PCs should have a real mess on thier hands. are the dragons working together or are they in opposition to each other. so many options, many more than simply killing a beast!
Thanks for sharing.
Great advice here, but just wanted to add some of the things I did for the Cryovain encounter:
Firstly, was to give him a treasure hoard. I rolled a random hoard off of the DMG and rolled a Headband of Intellect, which I had him wear. This also justified me using more sophisticated tactics as he became much smarter than normal (an Ancient White Dragon has an int score of 10, so they're by far the dumbest of all dragons)
Secondly was to use the variant rule for spellcasting dragons. With the Young White Dragon's stats, Cryovain can know one 2nd level spell. The spell I chose was Darkness, which creates a very nasty situation for the players as Cryovain has Blindsight and thus isn't impeded by the spell
I also maxed his HP and gave him Lair Actions (which should've been in the module to begin with).
Though I will say giving him 3 Legendary Resistances is a bit excessive, I think one might be enough
I like the idea of Ice Mephits as minions, bit might I also suggest Kobolds as well. You could even have a Winged Kobold with Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer levels as Cryovain's lieutenant
I am glad you liked the video. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas.
For falling damage, imagine the PC not smacking directly into the level ground, but instead bouncing off of a snowy slope, for comedic effect. Several bounces later, the PC is at the bottom of the mountain, took some damage (maybe half, save for 1/4), and has to find a way back up to the top. Best for an arrogant character, take the wind out of his sails, so to speak.
Thanks for sharing your ideas Paul.
I think there is a lot that can be done with this campaign. It wasn't just the Dragon that was a bit of a problem though, it felt a little staged the point at which you go to its lair. I think a timer of gradually worsening attacks and I would have liked a bit more problem solving revolving around finding its lair and then being able to enter. There were plenty of opportunities for this sort of information.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. Fair enough.
Damn. I just ran this yesterday.
Oh, dear. The live stream has been public for a month.
I have always felt that a dragon that fights on the ground isnt a properly-run dragon at all. So the first thing is to never engage in melee with the characters. Cant use that nice Dragon Slayer sword if the dragon never lets you. I use breath attacks at every recharge. Dragons do flyby swoop attacks, only landing if they have to. And yes, this is a lair so he gets lair actions.
My party almost TPK'd against Cryovain and the melee players who didnt bring a single missile weapon along were pretty useless. The one time he landed I had the perfect opportunity to tail swipe an especially irritating player off the side of the castle wall and I held back for some reason. I broke my rule to always play dragons to their fullest to make them very fun encounters. But other than him landing that once, Cryovain stayed in the air. He did eventually fly away because he's a dragon after all (and he makes a return appearance in Giants anyway).
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts Tom.
I love the idea of Cryovain being the BBEG of Icespire, but the pre-BBEG of Lost Mines, as the true BBEG
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Spoilers for Lost Mines of Phandelver
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. Venomfang (never thought the Spider was very good as a BBEG) pulls the strings needed to have the party take down Cryovain and cross another rival off thier list.
Venomfang just seems so much more cunning and clever than the book illustrates, and it would be such a Green Dragon move to manipulate everything to work in thier favor.
Experienced Players will find it easy, but what about people that are Beginners?
Is Cryovain easy for Beginners?
What if I as a Dungeonmaster would try to be as brutal and mean as possible?
Aren’t White Dragons known for her ferocity?
Maybe, Cryovain will get alarmed and break into parts of the Hold, or use his Breathweapon?
I'm just a noob DM but... Do people really run the adventures "as is"? Doesn't that limit replayability?
On my first run of DoIP, Cryovain was, obviously, an adult dragon that visited Phandalin in human form periodically. He even gave the players some quests. On Icespire Peak, they met Cryovain in human form and he transformed in front of them after a meaningful conversation.
The second time I ran DoIP it was something completely different.
I mean... Aren't adventures just a template for the DMs to put things on?
Yes. That is why I suggest changing the Dragon.
@@HowtoRPG yes, right on the money! 👍👍👍
the roof of the keep has a sheet of ice. having the dragon sleeping inside the ice and burrow and attack through the ice. the characters will never see him half the time. also the dragon has a horde of items. let him burrow and eat potions to heal when he needs to. and also give him a magic item or minions. the heroes can deal with the ice burrowing by lighting the fireplaces. it will nerf the fight and make the characters feel like they figured something out and epicly one. even if the dragon is easier because of this.
The banshee basically wipe my players party. Only the wizard made the save.
Banshee's can do that, but it is rare. How can I help?
@@HowtoRPG its already resolved, but thanks.
@@christophershoup6598 No problem.
Great video but I just want to point out that players can only get to level 6 by killing the dragon so they will be fighting him at lvl 5
Did you mean to include a dragon... member at 7:51? lmao XD
lol. Darn it, someone noticed.
7:14 poor baby dragon!
Of course the dragon encounter is easier, the Essentials Kit was intended for beginners.
So was the Starter set.
Make it young adult.
As for the new starter set, make sparkrender a young dragon