I still find it baffling that alot of MUSICIANS can't comprehend the idea of the speakers being the main source of your tone. Without it, your guitar obtains the tone and feel of a deep fryer. Come on people, research speakers, take the time to find what you like, and dont be afraid of blending🖤 Taking the time to do that stuff is very rewarding. Take care y'all
The problem is you can't really see the speakers in most amps. And if you do, they look boring. They aren't shiny like tubes, they don't have visible logos like amps, they aren't right underneath your fingertips like pickups are. People listen with their eyes
@@Nawt_Chris935 It takes both, and you can't ignore either. Tell me what you get when you just plug into a speaker. There is a give and take between the amp and the speaker. If you want to sound like Carcass, a Fender Twin with a V30 isn't going to cut it. At least not without a lot of help from pedals. Likewise, using a 5150 won't sound very good if you pair it with shit speakers. There isn't an either/or. It's both.
I agree. However, I was listening on cheap-ass TV speakers, so it's very possible that there's some nasty quality that I'm not hearing. That being said, some of the worst live guitar tone I have ever heard in my life came out of that era of Crate amp. Was it was user error or a bad amp? Dunno, don't care--two separate turds from two different buttholes can smell equally shitty. 😅
@@kazzxtrismus For good reason, honestly. Big-sounding guitars will muddy up a mix REAL quick. I always end up cutting a lot of lows out of my guitars all the time and using bass to make the guitar sound beefy. But to me, the Crate amp didn't sound real heavy in the bass and high treble regions...I felt the obvious mid-hump of that Crate could work well in context, specifically during a solo. All that being said, I'm not a studio engineer, I'm an edge-of-breakup lame-o amateur.
The crate with the greenback was actually my favourite sound. I think there's a ton of fantastic tone in a lot of the cheap combos used as heads for better speakers. I did this with a cheap rumble 25 bass combo and frankly it's now one of the nicest sounding heads I own. Mostly using it with a 2x12 with a v30 and a classic lead 80, but it's honestly great with all my cabs. I find myself using it over much more expensive tube heads often.
"Duuh. Next you will say that turning knobs in the amp changes tone more effectively than changing strings!" I am really proud for getting the sound I want with cheap gear. The most expensive (at retail price) thing I own is a 500€ Ibanez. I even "downgraded" a Jackson to less noisy Harley Benton humbuckers.
weirdly enough I really enjoyed the crate combo I'm sure it wouldn't sound great on most stuff but there is something about the clanky sound it has on the attack that I really like with that riff
At first I thought this guy Is just about clicks etc. But over the last year I changed my mind and I think he is doing an amazing necessary work for us. It was just about time for this gear mythbuster to clear our minds. Thank u man !! ❤
I personally think that the crate + greenback sounds kinda cool! Maybe it's just personal taste, but I think the shitty saturation you described in your video sounds kinda unique imho. That's not to say that unique = good, but I do like it for some reason. Maybe listening to an album's worth of music with that as a tone might be a different story. Who knows! Cheers from the Philippines!
5:46 you feel old... i still use my GK 250ml!!! and i LOVE it... nobody remembers that all of the "m" series steel box amps have ADJUSTABLE gain trim under the top cover... changed my life! ... and i STILL use a trapKat... i want ELE for that midi controller!! [have i mentioned i'm also a bassist? oh.. well..] Have you Ever done a shootout with amp load D.I. boxes or amp attenuators? [ like red box or rivera rock crusher]? could end the speaker debacle... or start a new one!!
I think I made one of the best deals in the past few years when I purchased the Harley Benton 212 cab for my 6505MH amplifier. The sound it delivers truly brings me a lot of joy. Later on, I also acquired two Randall amp heads, Throughout all this, the cab has never disappointed me!
Does the Harley Benton cab sound harsh at all with the 6505MH? I’ve considered getting one but I fear that it would sound too harsh. (Btw I’m referring to the cab with V30s, if that’s not what you have then disregard my comment lol)
i live in country where most of the people drive second hand cars. when you want to improve sound, every person will tell you "get better speakers". nobody buys new player, everybody buys speakers. what glenn is saying, sounds familiar and correct.
Another thing that I feel that change the tone is the room and the source of current (if it has ground) I am not an expert, but with my Victory Sheriff (great for 80s metal) and the HB 2x12 horizontal V30 (chinese) I tested some rooms, including my kitchen and I was surprised how bad can it sound, specially in the mids and highs. With the same settings, in my hall and with a grounded outlet the sound is just what I want. I have even noticed differences in gain, and that really surprised me, with the grounded outlet I need less gain, I dont know if its just my imagination. My electrical installation is quite old btw, and I always use grounded plugs (way less interference and more safe I suppose), but that was for testing purposes...
You're probably sick of me commenting this all the time, but the Beyerdynamic M201 is a brilliant dynamic mic for most sources... And it excels on snare and guitar cab! Smoother top-end than an SM-57, less hyped. But because it's smoother you can boost HF EQ without that nails-on-a-chalkboard screech. The downside is they upped the price to $399, but you can readily find 'em barely-used. I've also used it on upright bass (paired with its pickup), acoustic guitar, cajon, toms... It's sounded good on everything so far!
I bought a HB V30 cab and a Boss Katana MK2 back in November because of this channel and I don’t regret my choice at all. I got a killer deal. Paired with my Line 6 POD HD500X, the effects possibilities are endless which is perfect for my shoegazey/metalcore/posthardcore/emo/post punk style. If I ever decide to go with a live stereo setup, I’m gonna split it with a Greenback. As someone who couldn’t care less about brand name, only quality of product/sound: from the bottom of my heart, thank you for all you do, Glenn!
Im an amateur guitarist that loves doing things on a budget. I have a ibanez TBX150 head and an ampeg 4x12 cab with creambacks that im $200 into and i absolutely love the tones i get. I also love plugging my $150 joyo bantamp into it.
Actually, I like how the Crate with greenbacks sounds. The 6505 and the greenbacks sound a bit biased to the treble (i.e. nasal), while the Crate with greenbacks sounds more biased to the low end.
e906!!! For me one of the best guitar mics ever. Close to 57 but with more bottom end, less thin sound as 57 and smart casing, including switch for higher mids eq. ❤ BTW great video Glenn, as usual.
Even if the crate sucks with a good speaker, try altering the signal path with pedals before giving up. A decent distortion pedal and a 6 ban eq pedal can take you places if the amp sucks.
I owned a Laney 2x12 combo about 20 years ago that had celestion G12T75's in it and never liked the tone. I swapped greenbacks into it and it completely transformed the amp.
I have a 1982 Crate CR-212, it's a solid state 2x12. 60 w, reverb, you'd be surprised how many people think it's a high-end tube amp. The thing is, it's got really good speakers. I've never been able to positively identify them, but I'm pretty sure they're JBL from the serial number.
Honestly for me it's the 6505+greenbacks for rhythm, slo 100+blackbacks for leads. Not saying that to be difficult, it's genuinely what I like most from each one! I've found that if you have a good chord hand and a good picking style you can get a solid crunchy rhythm from most anything. But I've found the clearer and more pristine sounding something is, the better leads will sound.
The only amp I never got a usable sound out of was a tiny Radioshack POS! Other than that I have played some amps people would have justifiably called crap, or a mere toy, and figured out a few riffs that worked well with it, rather than trying to get a specific sound for a specific style out of an amp that couldn't hack it. I have a Crate GFX 120 someone gave me that is not well suited for anything but that tight metal djent sound, and I'm not into metal. My main amp is a Marshal Valvestate VS100, and by re-amping through the crate, and by mixing a little of the crate in, it adds a little more tight punch where needed, mainly the picking, which you cant get from the Marshal by itself without losing too much from the top and bottom of it's range.
The only 2 Crate amps that I've had that didn't sound like a "wall of mosquitoes", were the Vintage series and the Blue Voodoo. They screamed through my old Bandmaster cab with rocket 50's.
Growing up in the 80s, that Crate was utterly aspirational. Most of us had the 10W Crate! My buddy didn’t even have a Crate - he had a Quantum! Except he bypassed the power section and ran it through an old stereo tube amp and installed the whole mess in a milk crate, and set the whole thing on top of a “spare” Klipsch Stadium. THE PAIN! We were 16 playing hair metal. So also awesome.
Seems I know my tone better than most seeing how I commented 2 weeks ago on that video that rig A was the 6505 and rig B was the Soldano, if anything I'd say most people don't know the differences because they haven't really used neither through different cab speakers.
Gleeeeeennnnnnnnn! You advocate for using your ears not your eyes for gear but you don't give listening examples of the solid state amps! Seriously though, great video showing the principal of garbage in, garbage out sonically with that crate. Thanks for what you do
A lot of people hate the speaker, but the T75 pairs really well with the Ampeg VH140C. It's an odd combo because so many people hate solid state amps, and the G12-T75, but when I put these two together, they were killer. I tried a bunch of cabinets in the studio, but ultimately, my favorite tone was my old Marshall JCM 900 cab, lol.
I just replied on a video by Carsten Stepanowicz where he had a JCM 900 4100 and a 1960 cab with T-75s and it sound absolutely awesome. Two of the most loathed pieces of gear in the community, in combination. I’m convinced 95% of the community just shitposts about gear they’ve never played.
@@K707OR30I definitely agree with you. I used to use my Ampeg VH140C as my main amp, and a lot of our shows we had a banner in front of the amps, so you couldn't see what I was playing, and people would be shocked when I told them that I was playing solid state with T75s. I actually don't mind the T75s with my 5150 either because I think the scooped nature of the T75s kind of compliments the mid range growl of the amp.
@@travisspaulding2222agreed, I use the t-75s to add some bite to amps that are a little too “smooth” in the overdrive and can use more articulation like my TSL, and I use the g12evh speakers to take some edge off crunchier, more hard-clipping style distortion like my OR30. And in combination the t-75s and the EVH speakers tend to sound great together with almost every amp I own.
I almost agree. If the goal is to achieve a good mix you are right. It doesn't matter so much. The cheap gear often has "gaps" in the mix for other instruments. Everything works as a 2d, 3d, (4d) -Filter (or very fine EQ). The most complex one is the Speaker. But at the end you have to feel good. If you are happy with an expensive Speaker or Guitar go for it. Sometimes there are more or another frequencies which you have to deal with at the end in the mix. It can be good or make more work. It depends. ...
As ironic as it sounds, one of the catalysts for me eventually just ditching physical amps and speakers and opting for a Helix was Glenn’s videos. Other modern-day processors are equally viable options. Plus, his constant emphasis on speakers applies to building patches, as well. Don’t be afraid to experiment with different cabinet models or IRs.
I liked rig B because I liked the bottom end. But you could get that little but of extra bottom end from rig A with a little tweaking. So people just have to decide how important is it to show up at their dive bar gig with 6 grand worth of gear.
4:23 "If you've got a bad source, a great speaker really isn't going to help" ..well now Glenn, you just chucked your "the tone is in the speaker" theory right out the window!
I started out in the late 80s on one of those Gorilla amps. I played it so much that I got used to the sound. Everyone kept telling me it sounded like crap, but I loved it! Had that crunchy ragged distortion.
I still have my Gorilla amp from then, bought at NAMM in 1987 for $15. Cleaned it up last year to sell and plugged in to test if it worked. That thing goes *loud*. I jury rigged a plug to go into my Panama 2x12...and it wasn't half bad. The cheap speaker really held those amps back. And they can run on one of those small car jump batteries.
Edit: you know, now that we’ve hammered home the importance of the speaker, maybe it’d be a good idea to do a video comparing the amps, not from a tonality standpoint, but comparing the distortion/saturation character Damn, I don’t think I ever signed up for the raffle last time, but I was definitely looking at those vertical greenback cabs the other week after the video
my apartment rig is a terror microphone while waiting for its big brother in a harley benton 1x12 greenback cab with an attenuator so as not to bother the neighbors too much and a tube15 combo modify in heads with 3 4 overdrive and fuzz pedals a noise gate and frankly by taking my time I manage to have the tones I'm looking for for less than $1000 and those thanks to your advice
I was in search of a great new amp after some yrs..of being out of the loop regarding guitar gear. I saw a vid about the HB 212 w/V30's...an said ok ill give it a shot. I understand the source is the heart of the build. So i went through several amps by Marshall..Orange..the Boss katana series.. I was frustrated after buy/returning these amps. Im the type that has to have a useable distortion on tap using no pedals..jus not my style..but when I settled on an Evh5150 iii 6L6 50 watt(update w/consentric dials) paired w/the HB 212 an the sound is great for metal I'm seriously impressed..rig was about $1100 bc I was able to grab the head for $850 before they increased the pr of the 5150iii's by $300😊
I'd actually like to hear that Crate amp sound test. I have a couple of crates and what I've found to be an issue with them is too much mid-range among other things. It really does take some dialing in and patience to get a decent sound out of them but for whatever reason I really like them
I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I bought Harley benton bass cabs, and they sound amazing. I'm only using an Elf, and it's loud and clear. I can't turn it up. I live in a small cabin up north, and it shakes the shit out of it.
Not surprising. The 55Hz Blackbacks peak right in the most sensitive human hearing range at ~3kHz, and that cab must have a very low resonance freq with such little speaker surface area per cab volume. I find ~140Hz an ideal warm punchy sound, which the HB is likely close to. I bet most would still pick the HB cab if the amps were switched.
Surely it would sound best, double tracked with the different rigs hard panned each side. That always sounds great. I've got a HB2x12. Its great, I mic it with an Audix i5, which no one else seems to use, but I love it.
The speaker is clearly not just a filter as it actually adds to the sound because of cone break-up (ringing) and inherent harmonic distortion, etc. As for the comparison itself - it is kind of expected 5150 to beat a SLO 100 for high gain tones through any decent cab whatsoever... Cheers!
The SLO 100 sounds like it had some kind of filter blocking some of the sound. At least for rhythm. Very weird. I love Crate. I still have a Crate GX-1600 head. It had been used in a bunch of local bands that had a huge impact on our music scene back in the late 90’s. The last owner was going to sell it to a used shop but I couldn’t let all that history go. I used it in a few bands I was in before upgrading to my favorite amp of all time, the Hughes & Kettner Attax 300. I think both the Crate and the 6505 sound good here. I’ve always thought Gallien-Krueger only did bass amps. The more ya know. Thanks for the video.
Back in the mid 90s when I was recording a lot of punk bands, the Crate GT80 (which had a Celestion) was my secret weapon for those Screeching Weasel style leads. Paired it with a Boss SD1 and it cut really nicely. It didn't work so well in other applications, but for the sound of Ramones/Weasel style punk, it was pretty great. I still have that amp -- maybe I'll experiment with it. I wonder how the Crate Blue Voodoo holds up next to modern high gain tube amps? That thing was pretty cool and affordable back in the day.
I think lots of metal guys would pick the 6505 tone over the Soldano in a blind test. The Soldano is a great amp, but a lot of us metal guys would have a tough time playing it. It's so freaking transparent. The 5150 style amps are just so easy for us to play. The way the amp is voiced can cover up some of the imperfections in our playing. I saw a band recently where the guitarist was running a mesa triple rec on one side of the stage and an slo100 on the other side. The Mesa sounded pretty normal and great. On the Soldano you could hear every pick scratch each time the dude hit the strings. You've got to be a great player to use that Soldano. Most of us aren't at that level. 🤣 The 6505 has got a beffy tone. That's not what you get from a Soldano
Greenbacks are probably my fav speaker. I put one in a cheap Peavey 1x12 cab w/ a Orange Micro Dark and the Greenback made a night & day difference in that tiny rigs tone! I also ran a Vox AC-4 1x12 combo alongside it via a Radial Big Shot splitter. Super practice stereo rig, although still way too loud for my apartment! Ha!
Great episode! I’ve got a 15w Kustom amp that I’m gonna start shopping speakers to try. I think it’s a good amp that could use a better speaker in the cab.
The Crate sounds like a fuzz circuit. And to be perfectly honest, fuzz is good. I don't know if I could use it for everything, but with good speakers, it can be used to make great music. I think fuzz is not good for complicated cords. So, if you listen to Immortal's All Shall Fall, that was a good song for high gain. But I think Slayer or Metallica riffs would be good with fuzz. That's my buck fifty on this question that no one asked. I think the Crate with Greenbacks definitely is a good piece of gear.
I was recording back in the late 90's with the 80 watt version of the Crate, managed to get a decent sound but I replaced the speaker and I don't remember if the recordings happened before or after the change, anyway - got a decent sound (well, for the time, money and self recording of a demo - it was great) and as I always say to others - the WAY doesn't matter as long as the results are good!
I preferred the crate stock speaker over the greenbacks. Lacks a bit of top end but it's chunkier, the greenbacks sounded fizzier. You probably can get more highs with the stock speaker using a different mic. The 6505 sounds better though.
This channel and Glenn never seem to disappoint me. I started playing bass again just a few short years ago this April 1st and Glenn was one of the first channels I found in my attempts of researching with an open mind with the intent of gaining useful knowledge in the music gear world. I can confidently say that you, Glenn have played a significant role in helping me make informed decisions when sifting through the gear manufacturer marketing bullshit. Thank you 🥂
Our guitar player got himself one of those HB Celestion V30 half stacks. It's brilliant for the price. We will probably never use it live as we can't be bothered to haul a load of equipment around and the hx stomp exists, but it is an amazing piece of kit that sounds bloody terrific.
i wouldn't rank the crate + greenies that bad, actually. its got its place, and likely in specific genres, but the tone is usable. i'd rank it above the default crate. makes me wonder what a crate + mojotone brit would manage. now.. is it the best? does it rank next to the 6505? nah. but its serviceable if you only have a c note and change to pick up a black/greenback or brit or similar to swap in. or if you want that specific sound.
I have a 100 watt Boss Katana 2x12 with patches loaded into 3 channels and running cheap Joyo pedals in the 4th. Total cost is $500 dollars. The channell switcher by Boss was a $100 dollars as well. I found a Jackson made in Asia Mick Thompson Signature with Seymour Duncans Black Winters for $535 dollars. I have a super tight responsive incredibly heavy modern tone on channel 1, a lead boost on channel 2, channel 3 is a super bell like quality clean heavily reverbed with atmosphere, and my pedal board going through channell 4 for a kinda modernized Texas Metal ala Pantera type sound. This is a consistent, big sounding recordable and stage ready rig minus another guitar for back up. You can add another 2x12 or even a 4x12 cab for headroom if needed.. I think Im gonna try the HB 2X12 cabled to the Katana and see what tone blending between speakers I can get. Point being my rig costs nothing but my rig sounds great! Professional and easy to deal with in different environments as well. Are their better rigs out there...yes! Does mine get the job done. ..fuck yeah!
Ha haha ha...ha...I uh...kinda like the muddy chug of the Crate - even with the original speaker, but really liked the "extra" mids with the Greenbacks (and I still couldn't hear any difference between the Rig A/B even after you said what they were).
Crate amps rock, just put a good cabinet with some good speakers and they work great. I have a Crate GFX-1200H with an Eagle Works Sound Systems Cabinet 4x12" with Fender Special Design Speakers in it (these are the stock speakers in most Fender Amps I am told) and I think it sounds great.
now, I didn't watch the blind test, but to my ears, I'd go with the cheap rig for the rhythm and the expensive for the leads. I guess you'd get the "expensive rig" sound with a bit of eq and a delay on the cheap rig
They sound the same to me. Possibly because I'm listening to this on some cheap ass $20 computer speakers in my office on lunch break. I'm sure it sounds great in the studio.
Sweet! Looking very forward to next week to see what's up with that other Schecter. My HB 2x12 with the GBs arrived at the same time as all the other stuff I had coming and it is happily sitting behind me. I love it! I was talking to my friends on Tuesday and they said "there's no way you can lift a 2x12 cab like you're saying". I turned on my video feed, said "bullshit, watch me", and then swung it around. The looks on their faces were wonderful.
My first practice amp was a Crate, I still have it, it’s still a good amp for that purpose. Also I was one of the folks who picked B over A. It isn’t $5000 better though.
Hey Glen, it would be great if you did some sort of mic roundup video in the future. Perhaps also including some for acoustic guitar, or even vocals. Thanks for all of the content.
Got a SLO 30 about a year ago. Love it! That said I’ve actually been playing my 90’s peavey classic 50 2x12 a lot lately. It’s just got a very different vibe that I’m feeling currently. Just had to find the right OD I suppose.
Hey Glenn, Tbf they both sounded really good but, yes, A sounded marginally better than B imho. Maybe using the same amp, with the same settings all around would have been better; interesting result all the same, though. Onwards, Paul Plymouth UK
I didn't think the HB/Peavey rig sounded better. Or the Soldano rig. I couldn't tell the difference between them. Like, with headphones on if I closed my eyes I couldn't tell when the mix switched. Also great mix. If I had a serious recording band, I'd save up my pennies and fly to Ontario to record at Spectre Sound Studios. Also, the Crate through the Greenbacks was different, but not bad. A $35 EQ pedal would help immensely.
The Crate sounded fine in that mix! Throw a boost and some delay for the lead and it would rip........
I still find it baffling that alot of MUSICIANS can't comprehend the idea of the speakers being the main source of your tone. Without it, your guitar obtains the tone and feel of a deep fryer. Come on people, research speakers, take the time to find what you like, and dont be afraid of blending🖤 Taking the time to do that stuff is very rewarding. Take care y'all
The problem is you can't really see the speakers in most amps. And if you do, they look boring. They aren't shiny like tubes, they don't have visible logos like amps, they aren't right underneath your fingertips like pickups are. People listen with their eyes
@@dawnkeyy that sounds lame. Ill take amazing tone over visuals appeal anyday🤟🏿 thats a solid point you brought up
@@Nawt_Chris935 It takes both, and you can't ignore either. Tell me what you get when you just plug into a speaker. There is a give and take between the amp and the speaker. If you want to sound like Carcass, a Fender Twin with a V30 isn't going to cut it. At least not without a lot of help from pedals. Likewise, using a 5150 won't sound very good if you pair it with shit speakers. There isn't an either/or. It's both.
I find it baffling how people can insist on spelling "a lot" in one word despite zero reason nor reliable teachings to do so.
@@Anvilshock made a deal with the devil. Gain ok guitar playing ability while losing the abilty to spell. Small price to pay to play
I actually didn't think the Crate + Greenback didn't sound that bad.
that's exactly what I was thinking... I expected some kind of horribly muffled distorted sound, and that's not what we got.
It sounded more than usable and had it's own character, I'd use that over v30+sm57 all day
I agree. However, I was listening on cheap-ass TV speakers, so it's very possible that there's some nasty quality that I'm not hearing. That being said, some of the worst live guitar tone I have ever heard in my life came out of that era of Crate amp. Was it was user error or a bad amp? Dunno, don't care--two separate turds from two different buttholes can smell equally shitty. 😅
sounds better on proper large home stereo@@narglefargle
recording engineers just have a hate on for deep sounding guitars
@@kazzxtrismus For good reason, honestly. Big-sounding guitars will muddy up a mix REAL quick. I always end up cutting a lot of lows out of my guitars all the time and using bass to make the guitar sound beefy. But to me, the Crate amp didn't sound real heavy in the bass and high treble regions...I felt the obvious mid-hump of that Crate could work well in context, specifically during a solo. All that being said, I'm not a studio engineer, I'm an edge-of-breakup lame-o amateur.
I liked the crate tone through its own speaker. Maybe not a good match for the ‘modern metal sound’, but fine for some grungy rock or something.
Seems like it needs dark sounding speakers
The crate with the greenback was actually my favourite sound. I think there's a ton of fantastic tone in a lot of the cheap combos used as heads for better speakers. I did this with a cheap rumble 25 bass combo and frankly it's now one of the nicest sounding heads I own. Mostly using it with a 2x12 with a v30 and a classic lead 80, but it's honestly great with all my cabs. I find myself using it over much more expensive tube heads often.
I liked the stock Crate the most lol
"Duuh. Next you will say that turning knobs in the amp changes tone more effectively than changing strings!"
I am really proud for getting the sound I want with cheap gear. The most expensive (at retail price) thing I own is a 500€ Ibanez. I even "downgraded" a Jackson to less noisy Harley Benton humbuckers.
weirdly enough I really enjoyed the crate combo I'm sure it wouldn't sound great on most stuff but there is something about the clanky sound it has on the attack that I really like with that riff
At first I thought this guy Is just about clicks etc. But over the last year I changed my mind and I think he is doing an amazing necessary work for us. It was just about time for this gear mythbuster to clear our minds. Thank u man !! ❤
You’re very welcome!
I personally think that the crate + greenback sounds kinda cool! Maybe it's just personal taste, but I think the shitty saturation you described in your video sounds kinda unique imho. That's not to say that unique = good, but I do like it for some reason.
Maybe listening to an album's worth of music with that as a tone might be a different story. Who knows!
Cheers from the Philippines!
5:46 you feel old... i still use my GK 250ml!!! and i LOVE it... nobody remembers that all of the "m" series steel box amps have ADJUSTABLE gain trim under the top cover... changed my life! ... and i STILL use a trapKat... i want ELE for that midi controller!! [have i mentioned i'm also a bassist? oh.. well..] Have you Ever done a shootout with amp load D.I. boxes or amp attenuators? [ like red box or rivera rock crusher]? could end the speaker debacle... or start a new one!!
There SLS-100 has a little bit fuller sound, but there is not too much difference
I'm not listening on the greatest speakers, but that Crate sounds pretty awesome in that mix to me... with both speakers
Ya, I agree the crate gave too much thickness. But the combo gave the tone so much clarity that I would bang my head to.
I think I made one of the best deals in the past few years when I purchased the Harley Benton 212 cab for my 6505MH amplifier. The sound it delivers truly brings me a lot of joy. Later on, I also acquired two Randall amp heads, Throughout all this, the cab has never disappointed me!
Does the Harley Benton cab sound harsh at all with the 6505MH? I’ve considered getting one but I fear that it would sound too harsh. (Btw I’m referring to the cab with V30s, if that’s not what you have then disregard my comment lol)
So what speakers does it have?
@@Pointsbeingmade My Harley Benton have two v30 inside,but I will like to try greenback version in the future
@@SOD_Vigo ok so are they 12"?
@@Pointsbeingmade yes both of them are 12"
Like Duke Ellington once said: If it sounds good, it is good.
Truer words were never spoken.
i live in country where most of the people drive second hand cars. when you want to improve sound, every person will tell you "get better speakers". nobody buys new player, everybody buys speakers. what glenn is saying, sounds familiar and correct.
One of the best solid states I currently use is the boss katana mk2 head. You can do everything with these amps!
Another thing that I feel that change the tone is the room and the source of current (if it has ground) I am not an expert, but with my Victory Sheriff (great for 80s metal) and the HB 2x12 horizontal V30 (chinese) I tested some rooms, including my kitchen and I was surprised how bad can it sound, specially in the mids and highs. With the same settings, in my hall and with a grounded outlet the sound is just what I want. I have even noticed differences in gain, and that really surprised me, with the grounded outlet I need less gain, I dont know if its just my imagination. My electrical installation is quite old btw, and I always use grounded plugs (way less interference and more safe I suppose), but that was for testing purposes...
You're probably sick of me commenting this all the time, but the Beyerdynamic M201 is a brilliant dynamic mic for most sources... And it excels on snare and guitar cab! Smoother top-end than an SM-57, less hyped. But because it's smoother you can boost HF EQ without that nails-on-a-chalkboard screech. The downside is they upped the price to $399, but you can readily find 'em barely-used. I've also used it on upright bass (paired with its pickup), acoustic guitar, cajon, toms... It's sounded good on everything so far!
Got my fingers crossed to win that cab!!! :) I want to move up from my old Line 6 ive used since highschool. Thanks for all you do Glenn!
I bought a HB V30 cab and a Boss Katana MK2 back in November because of this channel and I don’t regret my choice at all. I got a killer deal. Paired with my Line 6 POD HD500X, the effects possibilities are endless which is perfect for my shoegazey/metalcore/posthardcore/emo/post punk style. If I ever decide to go with a live stereo setup, I’m gonna split it with a Greenback.
As someone who couldn’t care less about brand name, only quality of product/sound: from the bottom of my heart, thank you for all you do, Glenn!
Im an amateur guitarist that loves doing things on a budget. I have a ibanez TBX150 head and an ampeg 4x12 cab with creambacks that im $200 into and i absolutely love the tones i get. I also love plugging my $150 joyo bantamp into it.
Actually, I like how the Crate with greenbacks sounds. The 6505 and the greenbacks sound a bit biased to the treble (i.e. nasal), while the Crate with greenbacks sounds more biased to the low end.
e906!!!
For me one of the best guitar mics ever. Close to 57 but with more bottom end, less thin sound as 57 and smart casing, including switch for higher mids eq. ❤
BTW great video Glenn, as usual.
Got my 212 Harley Benton Green Backs in last week and I love it. Paired it with an Orange super Crush 100 and it sounds great.
Even if the crate sucks with a good speaker, try altering the signal path with pedals before giving up. A decent distortion pedal and a 6 ban eq pedal can take you places if the amp sucks.
You got like the best sound out of a crate❤ I used to have that exact Amp. I'm probably the only one that likes that tone
I owned a Laney 2x12 combo about 20 years ago that had celestion G12T75's in it and never liked the tone. I swapped greenbacks into it and it completely transformed the amp.
I have a 1982 Crate CR-212, it's a solid state 2x12. 60 w, reverb, you'd be surprised how many people think it's a high-end tube amp. The thing is, it's got really good speakers. I've never been able to positively identify them, but I'm pretty sure they're JBL from the serial number.
I just got an old peavey mc212 with sheffields. I dont sound like everyone else and its pretty neat.
Honestly for me it's the 6505+greenbacks for rhythm, slo 100+blackbacks for leads. Not saying that to be difficult, it's genuinely what I like most from each one! I've found that if you have a good chord hand and a good picking style you can get a solid crunchy rhythm from most anything. But I've found the clearer and more pristine sounding something is, the better leads will sound.
I agree..6505 rythm.. Slo 100 for leads
The only amp I never got a usable sound out of was a tiny Radioshack POS! Other than that I have played some amps people would have justifiably called crap, or a mere toy, and figured out a few riffs that worked well with it, rather than trying to get a specific sound for a specific style out of an amp that couldn't hack it.
I have a Crate GFX 120 someone gave me that is not well suited for anything but that tight metal djent sound, and I'm not into metal. My main amp is a Marshal Valvestate VS100, and by re-amping through the crate, and by mixing a little of the crate in, it adds a little more tight punch where needed, mainly the picking, which you cant get from the Marshal by itself without losing too much from the top and bottom of it's range.
The only 2 Crate amps that I've had that didn't sound like a "wall of mosquitoes", were the Vintage series and the Blue Voodoo. They screamed through my old Bandmaster cab with rocket 50's.
Growing up in the 80s, that Crate was utterly aspirational. Most of us had the 10W Crate! My buddy didn’t even have a Crate - he had a Quantum! Except he bypassed the power section and ran it through an old stereo tube amp and installed the whole mess in a milk crate, and set the whole thing on top of a “spare” Klipsch Stadium. THE PAIN! We were 16 playing hair metal. So also awesome.
I had the G130C XL. Heavy as heck, but at least it had wheels! And stereo chorus!
Seems I know my tone better than most seeing how I commented 2 weeks ago on that video that rig A was the 6505 and rig B was the Soldano, if anything I'd say most people don't know the differences because they haven't really used neither through different cab speakers.
I had that same amp (the crate) about 10 years ago with a greenback in it with a zoom g2 pedal and it sounded pretty good actually.
Gleeeeeennnnnnnnn! You advocate for using your ears not your eyes for gear but you don't give listening examples of the solid state amps!
Seriously though, great video showing the principal of garbage in, garbage out sonically with that crate. Thanks for what you do
A lot of people hate the speaker, but the T75 pairs really well with the Ampeg VH140C. It's an odd combo because so many people hate solid state amps, and the G12-T75, but when I put these two together, they were killer. I tried a bunch of cabinets in the studio, but ultimately, my favorite tone was my old Marshall JCM 900 cab, lol.
I just replied on a video by Carsten Stepanowicz where he had a JCM 900 4100 and a 1960 cab with T-75s and it sound absolutely awesome. Two of the most loathed pieces of gear in the community, in combination. I’m convinced 95% of the community just shitposts about gear they’ve never played.
@@K707OR30I definitely agree with you. I used to use my Ampeg VH140C as my main amp, and a lot of our shows we had a banner in front of the amps, so you couldn't see what I was playing, and people would be shocked when I told them that I was playing solid state with T75s. I actually don't mind the T75s with my 5150 either because I think the scooped nature of the T75s kind of compliments the mid range growl of the amp.
@@travisspaulding2222agreed, I use the t-75s to add some bite to amps that are a little too “smooth” in the overdrive and can use more articulation like my TSL, and I use the g12evh speakers to take some edge off crunchier, more hard-clipping style distortion like my OR30. And in combination the t-75s and the EVH speakers tend to sound great together with almost every amp I own.
I almost agree. If the goal is to achieve a good mix you are right. It doesn't matter so much. The cheap gear often has "gaps" in the mix for other instruments. Everything works as a 2d, 3d, (4d) -Filter (or very fine EQ). The most complex one is the Speaker. But at the end you have to feel good. If you are happy with an expensive Speaker or Guitar go for it. Sometimes there are more or another frequencies which you have to deal with at the end in the mix. It can be good or make more work. It depends. ...
As ironic as it sounds, one of the catalysts for me eventually just ditching physical amps and speakers and opting for a Helix was Glenn’s videos. Other modern-day processors are equally viable options.
Plus, his constant emphasis on speakers applies to building patches, as well. Don’t be afraid to experiment with different cabinet models or IRs.
I liked rig B because I liked the bottom end. But you could get that little but of extra bottom end from rig A with a little tweaking.
So people just have to decide how important is it to show up at their dive bar gig with 6 grand worth of gear.
sweet!
The Crate sounds like it just needs and overdrive pedal or a mid boost before it hits the amp and it's good to go to use on it own.
4:23 "If you've got a bad source, a great speaker really isn't going to help" ..well now Glenn, you just chucked your "the tone is in the speaker" theory right out the window!
I started out in the late 80s on one of those Gorilla amps. I played it so much that I got used to the sound. Everyone kept telling me it sounded like crap, but I loved it! Had that crunchy ragged distortion.
I still have my Gorilla amp from then, bought at NAMM in 1987 for $15. Cleaned it up last year to sell and plugged in to test if it worked. That thing goes *loud*. I jury rigged a plug to go into my Panama 2x12...and it wasn't half bad. The cheap speaker really held those amps back. And they can run on one of those small car jump batteries.
Edit: you know, now that we’ve hammered home the importance of the speaker, maybe it’d be a good idea to do a video comparing the amps, not from a tonality standpoint, but comparing the distortion/saturation character
Damn, I don’t think I ever signed up for the raffle last time, but I was definitely looking at those vertical greenback cabs the other week after the video
my apartment rig is a terror microphone while waiting for its big brother in a harley benton 1x12 greenback cab with an attenuator so as not to bother the neighbors too much and a tube15 combo modify in heads with 3 4 overdrive and fuzz pedals a noise gate and frankly by taking my time I manage to have the tones I'm looking for for less than $1000 and those thanks to your advice
I picked up a horizontal 2x12 for my lee Jackson xls 1000 because of your recommendations. It whoops so much ass Glen, thank you!
I did exactly that...I put a pair of vintage 75s in my 100 watt Crate combo. The tone was significantly better than the cheap Crate speakers.
New subscriber, I love your energy and instantly could tell you don’t hold anything back! Great videos!
I was in search of a great new amp after some yrs..of being out of the loop regarding guitar gear. I saw a vid about the HB 212 w/V30's...an said ok ill give it a shot. I understand the source is the heart of the build. So i went through several amps by Marshall..Orange..the Boss katana series.. I was frustrated after buy/returning these amps. Im the type that has to have a useable distortion on tap using no pedals..jus not my style..but when I settled on an Evh5150 iii 6L6 50 watt(update w/consentric dials) paired w/the HB 212 an the sound is great for metal
I'm seriously impressed..rig was about $1100 bc I was able to grab the head for $850 before they increased the pr of the 5150iii's by $300😊
I had that crate amp. In 97. I used it for bass after while. That brought back memories.
I'd actually like to hear that Crate amp sound test. I have a couple of crates and what I've found to be an issue with them is too much mid-range among other things. It really does take some dialing in and patience to get a decent sound out of them but for whatever reason I really like them
SLO felt more polished, not suited (for my tastes) for that mix, but the Harley Benton Peavey combo was clear, but had a lovely grit to it
I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I bought Harley benton bass cabs, and they sound amazing. I'm only using an Elf, and it's loud and clear. I can't turn it up. I live in a small cabin up north, and it shakes the shit out of it.
Not surprising. The 55Hz Blackbacks peak right in the most sensitive human hearing range at ~3kHz, and that cab must have a very low resonance freq with such little speaker surface area per cab volume. I find ~140Hz an ideal warm punchy sound, which the HB is likely close to. I bet most would still pick the HB cab if the amps were switched.
Surely it would sound best, double tracked with the different rigs hard panned each side. That always sounds great. I've got a HB2x12. Its great, I mic it with an Audix i5, which no one else seems to use, but I love it.
One of the best tones I ever got was an old solid state Crate and a single coil
"I've got something very big coming to the studio, and it weighs an awful lot"
Don't say Glenn's mom, don't say Glenn's mom, don't say Glenn's mom...
The speaker is clearly not just a filter as it actually adds to the sound because of cone break-up (ringing) and inherent harmonic distortion, etc. As for the comparison itself - it is kind of expected 5150 to beat a SLO 100 for high gain tones through any decent cab whatsoever... Cheers!
Should have called this something different like “bad amp, good speaker”. I’ve always been curious about this. Thanks glenn.
The SLO 100 sounds like it had some kind of filter blocking some of the sound. At least for rhythm. Very weird.
I love Crate. I still have a Crate GX-1600 head. It had been used in a bunch of local bands that had a huge impact on our music scene back in the late 90’s. The last owner was going to sell it to a used shop but I couldn’t let all that history go. I used it in a few bands I was in before upgrading to my favorite amp of all time, the Hughes & Kettner Attax 300.
I think both the Crate and the 6505 sound good here. I’ve always thought Gallien-Krueger only did bass amps. The more ya know.
Thanks for the video.
Uhhh… that Crate wasn’t nearly as bad as I expected. Those greenbacks made it sound pretty cool, IMO
Back in the mid 90s when I was recording a lot of punk bands, the Crate GT80 (which had a Celestion) was my secret weapon for those Screeching Weasel style leads. Paired it with a Boss SD1 and it cut really nicely. It didn't work so well in other applications, but for the sound of Ramones/Weasel style punk, it was pretty great.
I still have that amp -- maybe I'll experiment with it. I wonder how the Crate Blue Voodoo holds up next to modern high gain tube amps? That thing was pretty cool and affordable back in the day.
Good science here. Great job. Happy to see a tiny bit of love for the Crate, but it does still suck.
I think lots of metal guys would pick the 6505 tone over the Soldano in a blind test. The Soldano is a great amp, but a lot of us metal guys would have a tough time playing it. It's so freaking transparent. The 5150 style amps are just so easy for us to play. The way the amp is voiced can cover up some of the imperfections in our playing. I saw a band recently where the guitarist was running a mesa triple rec on one side of the stage and an slo100 on the other side. The Mesa sounded pretty normal and great. On the Soldano you could hear every pick scratch each time the dude hit the strings. You've got to be a great player to use that Soldano. Most of us aren't at that level. 🤣 The 6505 has got a beffy tone. That's not what you get from a Soldano
Wow. I loved mix A.
Greenbacks are probably my fav speaker. I put one in a cheap Peavey 1x12 cab w/ a Orange Micro Dark and the Greenback made a night & day difference in that tiny rigs tone!
I also ran a Vox AC-4 1x12 combo alongside it via a Radial Big Shot splitter. Super practice stereo rig, although still way too loud for my apartment! Ha!
Great episode! I’ve got a 15w Kustom amp that I’m gonna start shopping speakers to try. I think it’s a good amp that could use a better speaker in the cab.
The Crate sounds like a fuzz circuit. And to be perfectly honest, fuzz is good. I don't know if I could use it for everything, but with good speakers, it can be used to make great music.
I think fuzz is not good for complicated cords. So, if you listen to Immortal's All Shall Fall, that was a good song for high gain. But I think Slayer or Metallica riffs would be good with fuzz.
That's my buck fifty on this question that no one asked. I think the Crate with Greenbacks definitely is a good piece of gear.
If you like solid state, cheack out the AMT Stonehead. Those guys even make 'solid state tube replacements'.
happy new year glenn!!!!! cheers from saint Augustine Florida!!!!👁
I was recording back in the late 90's with the 80 watt version of the Crate, managed to get a decent sound but I replaced the speaker and I don't remember if the recordings happened before or after the change, anyway - got a decent sound (well, for the time, money and self recording of a demo - it was great) and as I always say to others - the WAY doesn't matter as long as the results are good!
I preferred the crate stock speaker over the greenbacks.
Lacks a bit of top end but it's chunkier, the greenbacks sounded fizzier.
You probably can get more highs with the stock speaker using a different mic.
The 6505 sounds better though.
This channel and Glenn never seem to disappoint me. I started playing bass again just a few short years ago this April 1st and Glenn was one of the first channels I found in my attempts of researching with an open mind with the intent of gaining useful knowledge in the music gear world. I can confidently say that you, Glenn have played a significant role in helping me make informed decisions when sifting through the gear manufacturer marketing bullshit. Thank you 🥂
holy shit the bassist thinking thoughts
ahhh
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
As a bassist myself, I.......I can't remember....DAMN BASS BRAIN!!! oooo!!!! Squirrels!!! 🥜 🐿️ 🐿️
Sludge dudes will hear that Crate and think “hell yeah”
hell yeah
hell yeah
Hey cool. I got one right. Brings to mind a saying about a broken clock... but a w is a w
Yeah, but I bet if you changed the tubes in the Crate to some NOS 1960s tubes it would sound great...
Our guitar player got himself one of those HB Celestion V30 half stacks. It's brilliant for the price. We will probably never use it live as we can't be bothered to haul a load of equipment around and the hx stomp exists, but it is an amazing piece of kit that sounds bloody terrific.
i wouldn't rank the crate + greenies that bad, actually. its got its place, and likely in specific genres, but the tone is usable.
i'd rank it above the default crate. makes me wonder what a crate + mojotone brit would manage.
now.. is it the best? does it rank next to the 6505? nah. but its serviceable if you only have a c note and change to pick up a black/greenback or brit or similar to swap in. or if you want that specific sound.
A guy commented on a Bradley Hall video that he was looking to improve his guitar mixing skills. I recommend this channel in a reply to said comment.
I have a 100 watt Boss Katana 2x12 with patches loaded into 3 channels and running cheap Joyo pedals in the 4th. Total cost is $500 dollars. The channell switcher by Boss was a $100 dollars as well.
I found a Jackson made in Asia Mick Thompson Signature with Seymour Duncans Black Winters for $535 dollars.
I have a super tight responsive incredibly heavy modern tone on channel 1, a lead boost on channel 2, channel 3 is a super bell like quality clean heavily reverbed with atmosphere, and my pedal board going through channell 4 for a kinda modernized Texas Metal ala Pantera type sound.
This is a consistent, big sounding recordable and stage ready rig minus another guitar for back up.
You can add another 2x12 or even a 4x12 cab for headroom if needed..
I think Im gonna try the HB 2X12 cabled to the Katana and see what tone blending between speakers I can get.
Point being my rig costs nothing but my rig sounds great! Professional and easy to deal with in different environments as well.
Are their better rigs out there...yes! Does mine get the job done. ..fuck yeah!
Thank you Glenn, great video!
Ha haha ha...ha...I uh...kinda like the muddy chug of the Crate - even with the original speaker, but really liked the "extra" mids with the Greenbacks (and I still couldn't hear any difference between the Rig A/B even after you said what they were).
Crate amps rock, just put a good cabinet with some good speakers and they work great. I have a Crate GFX-1200H with an Eagle Works Sound Systems Cabinet 4x12" with Fender Special Design Speakers in it (these are the stock speakers in most Fender Amps I am told) and I think it sounds great.
I've been looking at putting together a greenback 212. Thanks for the GREAT demos GLENN!!
now, I didn't watch the blind test, but to my ears, I'd go with the cheap rig for the rhythm and the expensive for the leads. I guess you'd get the "expensive rig" sound with a bit of eq and a delay on the cheap rig
They sound the same to me.
Possibly because I'm listening to this on some cheap ass $20 computer speakers in my office on lunch break. I'm sure it sounds great in the studio.
Sweet! Looking very forward to next week to see what's up with that other Schecter.
My HB 2x12 with the GBs arrived at the same time as all the other stuff I had coming and it is happily sitting behind me. I love it!
I was talking to my friends on Tuesday and they said "there's no way you can lift a 2x12 cab like you're saying". I turned on my video feed, said "bullshit, watch me", and then swung it around. The looks on their faces were wonderful.
I love my Harley Bentley cab combined with a tubemeister 36 :) love your reviews 👍
As a teenager I loved the Crate amp!
Ive been playing crate since the 90s. Love my 2x12 combo. I just need some new speakers.😂🍻
My first practice amp was a Crate, I still have it, it’s still a good amp for that purpose. Also I was one of the folks who picked B over A. It isn’t $5000 better though.
Hey Glen, it would be great if you did some sort of mic roundup video in the future. Perhaps also including some for acoustic guitar, or even vocals. Thanks for all of the content.
Cheap or expensive rig a sounds amazing! I love my Harley Benton cabs
Got a SLO 30 about a year ago. Love it! That said I’ve actually been playing my 90’s peavey classic 50 2x12 a lot lately. It’s just got a very different vibe that I’m feeling currently. Just had to find the right OD I suppose.
I just got a Peavey JSX combo 2x12 for 450dlls. I'm seriously in love with the crunch channel, is based on the Classic 50
Hey Glenn,
Tbf they both sounded really good but, yes, A sounded marginally better than B imho.
Maybe using the same amp, with the same settings all around would have been better; interesting result all the same, though.
Onwards,
Paul
Plymouth
UK
Honestly, I think doing a stereo amp setup with the Crate with the greenback and the 6505 with the greenback might sound pretty rad!
Oh, you did that later in the video hahaaha
I didn't think the HB/Peavey rig sounded better. Or the Soldano rig. I couldn't tell the difference between them. Like, with headphones on if I closed my eyes I couldn't tell when the mix switched. Also great mix. If I had a serious recording band, I'd save up my pennies and fly to Ontario to record at Spectre Sound Studios. Also, the Crate through the Greenbacks was different, but not bad. A $35 EQ pedal would help immensely.