The Shlog
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Another TPI failure, installing the @TwoStrokePerformance injector relocation kit or at least trying to!
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I fitted the TSP relocation kit with TSP aftermarket head with the ECU reflash to suit this setup last week ,i am running premix and have about 4 hours on it now. I have ridden a number of TPI bikes and dont mind them but i am not a fan of running the oil injection ,hands down this bike runs like i always thought an injected bike should bravo Two Stroke Performance for this solution,no affiliation with TSP.👍👍👍
This kit made my bike run super good.
Morgan, your explanation of how TPI warm up is important and how a lot of people don't understand that issue, was perfect and spot on! Thank you. Most, like 99% of all TPI issues are caused from owner error during warm up. Others are caused by not filling the oil tank, getting dirt in the oil tank, etc. Other than owner errors they are extremely durable and dependable machines. You have to make sure and idle, warm up and take it seriously easy on TPI's for the first 6-8 minutes at least. Don't rev it up and try to "clean it out" you don't need to do that, either. After warming it up correctly, BRAAAAP! all day long!!!!!
Thanks
Straight talk here from someone who has logged hundreds of hours on several TPI bikes bought new. TPI was not properly tested and engineered for cold weather operation. When cold the injected oil coagulates on the reed block preventing proper oiling. All our multiple seizures were on the cold intake side of the piston. In addition the cooling system doesn’t keep the engine warm enough at light load/ low speed single track use. Poor oiling + insufficient expansion of piston and cylinder equals big problems. The pre mix bikes had none of these problems. That is why KTM is abandoning TPI after 15 years of development and 5 years of serial production. Thousands of owners beside myself have paid top dollar for unreliable and failure prone machines and received no help from the factory. These failures are very expensive to fix: figure $2500 on up at a shop depending on how many components are damaged. Extended warmup can mitigate cold seizure, but won’t eliminate it. I have been riding for 60 years and know how to treat a cold engine. Victim blaming the owner for poor engineering and development
is really poor form. You will sing a different tune when it happens to you. After 4 new KTM/ Husqvarna 300’s I have moved to the 4 stroke platforms. The 500 piston will go 1000 hours in recreational service with care. KTMs’ return to premix with TBI is all you need to know. They have lost me as a 2T customer.
I wasn’t really blaming the customer. We both know it was KTM’s fault. I think it’s a horrible design and that’s why I never bought one. I’m just trying to educate people to help mitigate KTM’s terrible design. I have bagged on these bikes from the get go but so many people get defensive and angry that I’m trying a different approach. Also, the injector relocation helps by putting fuel with that oil.
Sounds like carburetors are still king 🤘
Yep
I did the full TSP relocate/delete/head on my 22 tip and it destroys my 19 carby now
I have a 2020 300XCW and never purposely warmed it up differently. However, I put the GETECU race Kit on soon after I got it. It burned more gas after install, which the kit was suppose to cure the lean condition. The kit and Slaven's head really transformed the bike for the better.
Awesome
Over here in Scandinavia its like religion getting the tires studded perfect haha
Right feel in the rocks, right angle on the studs, right pattern on the rear for drive etc...
Funny part is some of the best tires for studs are reeally old treads that no sane person have used for summer in a very long time.
That’s awesome
Every 2 stroke I’ve ever had has had it’s own weird niche when it comes to starting. But I learned that if you can, just let it idle it’s way to temp. I cold locked a snowmobile up because the wiseco forged pistons take way longer to warm up than oem 😅. Also, we could always use some extra balls while riding.
Hahahaha
🤘🤘 man that was in good information you gave on cold Seize I learned something new today thank you very much Morgan
You bet 🤘🏻
Excellent point about TPI warmup. I've been saying it forever. 👍
Yep. I think that is really the biggest issue with them
I installed tsp's irk last week, already had their medium comp head. Got to ride it Sunday bike runs good
Awesome
Did you decide to go with premix or keep oil injection?
Just did mine too, already had tsp kit, went from low to mid comp dome with new top end(100hrs, but piston looked awesome, didn't need to) when installing irk kit, one ride and seems way crisper, super linear, had some idle issues, tuned idle screw and bypass to dial in, awaiting next test ride, have delete dongle, but going to run a few tanks in on oil injection first, then see difference, just a heads up on idle adjustment, south bay said they're only 1.5 to 3 turns out anymore on bypass, then tune idle screw in conjunction, 22TE300I, PNW riding. will have more to report later. PS always warm those TPI's up, and you should have no problems, top end was perfect at 100hrs of gnar pnw siingle track.
5
@@stevenlatulip2231 kept oil injection
I went from a 16 250 xcw to a 19 250 xcf. Until KTM gets the 2 strokes figured out or Yamaha gets off the butts and puts a button their 2T's, I'll be riding a 4 stroke.
Morgan, Hope you can reply to this question, Now that the TSP kit is been on the market for a while have you seen any failures come through your shop? or have heard of any? Thanks
The only issues we have seen are with the clamp that they provide. I’ve had some fuel leaks at their connections but have solved them quickly with a good step less clamp.
I always wondered what people do when racing ISDE rules with a TPI. You start with a cold bike after impound. Maybe pull over and let it warm up? Go slow for a while? You can’t wait too long or you could be late.
If they are pre warmed, like earlier in the day there isn't a problem. It's when they have not been started for at least a day and then you start and go balls out. If you were to warm it up early before impound, shut it off for several hours there really isn't an issue - its' not a great idea for any bike to sit long and then go race it right away without warm up anyway...
Can you do a followup vid on the tsp relocation kitt? How to install, and how it rides compared to the original. I got the same bike and really miss the aggresive powerband hit that my old ‘13 ktm used to give me.
Just posted
tubes in winter are fine the rubber/foam gets so hard a moose is like 15-20lbs in a tire.
Yeah they do get stiff but doesn’t bother me.
Mindlessly pinging a bike so it "doesnt clog" is silly on a carb bike as well. A properly jetted carby starts and runs cold just fine. Any cold bike needs a slightly higher idle to run properly. What a lot of people miss is that cold bikes actually get way more film deposited due to condensation onto cold metal(the whole reason why your cold bike runs poorly in the first place).
KTM has a warm up procedure that works, but any of these bikes you can just ride slowly even when cold- that warms up - I almost never warm up my bikes at idle - hate the noise , but I also never rev them - have had 0 issues on high (200h+ bikes).
I do think that if you dont mod your TPI with and adjustable throttle stop they can be hard to start and run poorly when cold (also are lean at idle) - so that can cause people to rev them needlessly.
I have seen many stock TPI bikes that start poorly when cold - so maybe we can still blame the bike? lol
I dont know why people fret about these tiny cylinder scorns on 2 strokes - losing those 4psi makes a difference in their lap times? That piston looks hella weird tho
Totally. I warm up all my bikes at a bit higher idle (with my wrist) with an occasional blip but no real rev till they are warm. The little score wouldn't have bothered me personally but as a shop I wanted to let the customer know and he chose to make it perfect.
@@highlandcycles now that it's cold and snowy come down to Moab or green river, at least we got no snow lol😅
Good video as always. 🤘
Thanks 🤘🏻
A follow up on the installation of the TSP kit would be great. I have a buddy that has a 21 GGEX300 and I have a 22. I have ridden his and its nice. Mine takes a bit to warm up. I do the warm up thing while getting ready. We took off and my was still a little boggy, but his was nice and crisp. Seat of the pants his felt a bit stronger. I have thought about this kit.
We will be filming the install when we get the cylinder back
@@highlandcycles looking forward to it….even though I’ll probably go 2023 tx soon.
Im new to 2 strokes, and have done no mods but the tsp relocation and tune, stock the bike runs like poo in the mid and off the bottom, post kit, rides fantastically, more power can lug right down, and smoooth. Will be trying a head later on.
@@floza112 awesome
My new bike locked up Sunday with 44hrs on it dropped it off at the dealer yesterday morning they called me today the piston skirt broke off a piece I heard it so killed it but not fast enough I guess wiped out a ton of shit pretty devastated myself
Oh no. What year and model again? That sucks
2023 300 they think that either a issue with the oil pump or blockage of the oil intake tube idk the guys working at the dealership are about a bunch of fkn idiots I'd much rather tore it apart myself but being a brand new bike with hardly over 40hrs easy hours on it I took it in to them now idk what happen at this point honestly don't make since i don't see how even if encounter a oiling issue how does that create a piston breaking I could see if it was ran long enough but this happen within about 15min in
@@ALDA2479 I have heard of quite a few of the 23 W or TE models having piston issues. Super sorry to hear man
I wonder if the dealerships are warming up correctly even before delivery, or informing new owners about the warm up process.
I worry about that
Dealers told me no warm up beyond 30 seconds.
@@highlandcycles I will say that mine told me to let it warm up.... just idle until you can feel the rad has some heat in it.
@@human1513 that’s BS for these bikes. I tell people warm until you feel heat in the radiators. Both of them and not just barely warm.
Mine told me to start it up and let it idle (without revving the throttle) until the radiators are both hot to the touch.
KTM= keep the money! Cannot believe a brand new special edition bike needs to have its intake system and head completely revamped in order to be good. Considering the coating on that piston being that worn at 50 hrs which is a typical inspection/service interval, I’m am still sticking with a Beta or YZ and leaving the Austrian brands out of my two stroke lineup considering how many grenaded pistons and smoked top ends with very low hours. I’ve said this elsewhere in that my Beta 300 race was nearly pristine at 50 hrs and at 100 hours was still within spec including doing Le Mans dead starts to wide open starts. QC at KTM and materials sourcing is not what it used to be.
Agree. My new TBI model is good so far but I feel like since the Indian Company bought KTM (yep, that's right) the focus has been more on profit than quality.
Ktm's are only good after some money is spent otherwise I would have sold mine if I didn't get a tsp kit .The beta I had before was excellent and very reliable the only thing better was tm
@@Ray-ol8bx Don't get me wrong, and you are right about needing to put some money into them, KTM's are very nice to ride once you dump some extra cash into them but then they are money pits after that also. Given they're pricey out of the gate to boot, I'd rather take a Japanese bike or the Beta save money up front, have some very good suspension work and still come in cheaper than stock KTM and be more reliable. I've heard great things about the TM but never ridden one, have heard they're hard to get parts for.
@@Natedoc808tm parts are really easy to get but there's less aftermarket.I hear you with beta great bikes and honestly I tried to get one near new but it didn't happen and we need to make sure KTM doesn't get to much of the market .
Dang! Those are meaty. Tungsten carbide is the toughest alloy available, but is quite dense/heavy. How much does each tire weigh?
I didn't weigh them but they are obviously heavier than without. I don't worry too much about that stuff when I am just trying to get out in the snow and ice.
More likely the piston issue is from left over casting sand in related parts not getting fully cleaned out. I seen this issue from Volvo in their D13 engine years back. There was a nook where a small amount would be left.
It could be but the problem is pretty consistent with folks who didn’t know how to warm up the bike.
At 15:27 is that a hole in the piston? If so, I have never seen a cold seizure look like that. Something else may be going on here.
It is a hole in the piston. Factory hole.
Lmao you got Lightning McQueen tires
😂🤣
I let my TPI idle and warm up while I put on my gear. Idle until good and warm.
That's exactly what I do as well and the right way. I did that on my four strokes, and my carb two strokes. When I started riding at 5 years old my dad made us warm up the bikes correctly before riding them - I teach that as well. When I tear down my bikes they are always in mint shape. I think warm up is the single most important item right next to other general maintenance.
Any thoughts on running fuel through the throttle body with the relocation kit? I’ve had my questions whether or not it’s designed for it and could damage it?
Not sure but it should be fine. We will keep an eye on it for sure
Harvesting moose balls sounds terribly dangerous!
I know, right?
@@highlandcycles might need to enlist all those tourist that want to get up close and personal with them. That way we get something more than educational\funny videos of them getting flung like dolls!
@@brycedavis907 YES!!!!
I just Googled what my altitude is and it was 420 feet lol
🤘
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When you install the newest TSP relocation kit does the warmup procedure change to be similar to the carb models or stays the same?
I don’t think so. I believe you will still need to warm it up like before. At least this one will because he is keeping the oil injection. It will help pick up the oil but it’s only half the fuel going in that way and it’s still not premixed.
@@highlandcycles true good point. I seen the oil delete kit might be a good option then. Mines 22 300xcw bone stock for now. I might need the idle screw & tsp ecu remap kit at least, it idles too low and tries to foul during warmup 20 seconds-ish in , so i do slightly blimp it (max 15% of throttle) after a bit nothing as harsh or much as my 16 carb warmup but still. Manual was confusing just said no high revving, warmup battery, no throttle with the start button cranking, no idle longer than 2minutes, & use the cold start during cold temps.
Lot of labor in those tires
"some balls are made for bouncing, some replace tubliss"
Hahahaha
ya' think the oiling system on those bikes is why they don't have it anymore ?? .... just sayin' ....
Yep
Is there an update to this video?
What do you want to know? I never shot a specific one.
What kind of performance hit do you take when you install a cast iron sleeve instead of re-plating it with Nikasil? P.S. Don't Google "Moose Balls" HAHAHAHAHAHA!
No hit except that tuning gets a little harder. The steel holds heat more so fueling changes quite a bit.
That is a bummer, was looking forward to this video since I have been looking at doing the whole two stroke performance mod to my 2018 250xc-w tpi. Are you doing the delete kit also or just leaving it oil injected with the kit? Curious for CO elevation why not the high comp insert? I was thinking med head for my 250 to get the most out of Low and maybe pull a higher gear since I can not really find a 300 kit for the 18 model 250 tpi.
Don’t worry, we will still film the install. Keeping oil injection. Medium head because after talking to them it seems like the best for this guy
Man, i dont know. My tpi starts smoking pretty quick on cold startup. Within 30 seconds you have to think all the oil has coated. Now pinning it on start up..sure. But hard to believe 20-30 seconds of idle wouldnt oil cylinder.
I really think there are crazy differences in bikes. I know people who’s bikes drool and people who’s bikes don’t at all. Also, as I mentioned, this sat for a long time which could make a big difference. Also I know that there is a newer map that increased the oil. Not sure if this has that.
@@highlandcycles yea, possibly a pump issue and the bike is still on break in( i think you said it only had 40ish miles on it). That scratch was high in the cylinder, wonder if it would have ever been an issue if you hadn’t found it. Makes me want to go check my 2020.
So now that TBI pre-mix motors are out, the TPIs will scratch the cylinder if you don’t treat it like it’s delicate upon start up. They’ve been out how many years and how many times been started and revved a bit. If this is the case, they all have scratches?!!
A lot of them do. We have seen a ton with scratches. It’s not new at all.
@@highlandcycles if they all have scratches in the cylinder and have to be repaired, sounds like a class action lawsuit
@@jcbirdrunner I didn’t say all. It is a lot and I would agree that KTM should shoulder some responsibility but they say how to warm them up in the manual, people just don’t read the manual. Also, most people don’t find out until way out of warranty and then it’s hard to prove what went wrong. But in my experience, the people who warm up per the manual, don’t have messed up cylinders and the people who warm up like an old carb bike do have issues. Also, the problem is less and less as the public has been finding out what is causing it. I know you’re looking for a fight but I’m not trying to do that. I am trying to educate people.
@@highlandcycles didn’t mean to sound that way - not looking for a fight - it’s all good - your channel is great! A lot of times when a new bike comes out, all people can do is say how great the new one is and how bad the old one - pretty disingenuous that KTM would continue (year after year) to make a bike that if you forget one day or your buddies are leaving and you rev your bike a bit - presto the cylinder is ruined. And how would someone know. Maybe therein lies the reason… Again your content is great love the joking with Slaven
@@jcbirdrunner I can’t believe it either but the TPI was developed by attorneys and the emission standards, not performance engineers. And if you are careful and know what do do they seem to be ok. I have been bagging on them vs old tech (carbs) this whole time 🤣😂 and now that they are making the TBI that is pre mix and super rich (can’t possibly meet any emission standards) I am in love. Of course I am keeping my carb bike just in case.
Could some explain how not warming up the TPI can cause to damage of the cylinder wall?
Thanks!
With a lack of enough oil and a generally lean condition (to meet emissions standards) if you rev the bike too much, the piston expands faster than the cylinder and touches the cylinder wall causing damage
@@highlandcycles I shoulda just kept watching lol. Love the schlog!
Holy Crap those Mouse Ballz are bank $ 189 per wheel. Might as well call them ben wa balls, i'll stick with the nitros thanks
They are pricey. But Nitros are $135. I hear that these are lasting way longer (from a pro rider) so it might not be a bad investment. We will see
Check out the Lucioli tubes! 7mm thick, run flat if necessary, DOT (which mousses are not/dangerous at rod speeds for any length of time).
Watch out for lee andras Gator!
Kevin is a kind one
You doing the oil pump delete with the split kit?
Not on this one.
Wait this bike had 50 miles on it?
Not sure exactly but very few
@@highlandcycles wow its incredible that a piston could look that bad that quickly.. just did top end on my yz250 and look brand new after 70 hrs
@@seamarsh3756 That is why premix is good
Merch hats are going to be restocked?
They are now. Highland-cycles.com/merchandise
@@highlandcycles Can I request international shipping? I'm on the other side of the pond (Europe)
@@jackaofdp sorry man. I don’t have the channels to do that for a reasonable amount b
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What's the benefits of the tsp relocation kit?
I've been running the tsp kit (hi comp) on my 2020 300xcw since about the 15 hour mark. Bike has been flawless for me.
The injector that gets moved to the air boot helps to pick up the oil that’s being injected into the throttle body making it lube better. It also makes for a more dense charge and therefore better throttle response
@@highlandcycles does moving the single injector have an advantage vs moving both like a Get?
@@BillyGoatGruff5721 not sure but I think it’s a cleaner kit.
@@highlandcycles once you get the new cylinder on I assume you test ride it. I'd be curious of your thoughts as to how it compares to a regular tpi and even your new xc. Hopefully you can give us a slog update
@@BillyGoatGruff5721 Will do for sure
I'll keep my 2018 carb fed model thanks. F*ck this over complicated rubbish. I've changed my carb to a keihin and had my head cut. My bike runs better than most TPI models I've ridden. Now at 200hrs with not one issue other than service parts.
That’s why I still have my 18 with a carb. But why so few hrs on yours? Mine is way over 500?
@@highlandcycles I've had a couple of bikes along side. Also life and work get in the way.
@@damolux3388 gotcha.
TPI is a stupid idea. No lube on every start up is never good for any 2 stroke.
I relocated an injector & comverted to premix. Now it gets lube oil all the time.
Good move
Here we go with Human Numan! Dude hang it up...
FINALLY!!!!! Lol
Hahaha 🤣
Aw man that’s a bummer! Makes me more worried about my bike. But since I bought it at .2 hours I’ve let it warm all the way up before touching throttle so hopefully mines all good! Definitely sucks though
@@ChrisBurns1119 I’m sure it’s good.
@@highlandcycles hope so! Guess I just got worried because my 30 day warranty is up in 3 days 😂🤟🏻
That piston looks like lack of lubrication.
I agree
Does that piston have hole in it or is that just a black spot? Piston looks terrible compared to how good that bike looks.
Carb'd 2 strokes seen pistons with wear almost looks like cold seizures, like piston is all scored up lookin. Why people rev them to the moon when they are Cold makes no sense to me.
Agree. You can cold seize anything. It’s just easier on these.
@@highlandcycles I forgot to add when they are cold ahah
😂Yamaha
What's the English translation for 'shlog'?
Shop Vlog
The act of defecating into a sock, dipping it into water, and using it to beat someone, preferably in the face.
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